AA Remaining furloughee analysis?
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
USAPA is controlled by east pilots and they are a fractured group. There are pilots on the east that want to punish guys like me because of an arbitration that was done by a neutral third party. Some of those pilots don't want to just put me below the furloughed pilots, they want me below the new hires that were hired at OUR airline long after I was. Not all east pilots are out to harm the west. There are some good guys/gals out east and even in the union, but because of USAPA's track record I don't have a lot of faith in a fair and equitable process.
#42
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
I agree though, a negotiated settlement is highly unlikely.
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 481
I don't think it's in APA's best interest to screw anyone. They know that at some point everyone will be under their representational umbrella and if they go out of their way to screw large numbers of future members like the entire west, they just weaken themselves in the long run, at least I would HOPE they understand that.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 117
quote:
Originally posted by eaglefly
i don't think it's in apa's best interest to screw anyone. They know that at some point everyone will be under their representational umbrella and if they go out of their way to screw large numbers of future members like the entire west, they just weaken themselves in the long run, at least i would hope they understand that.
I could introduce you to a couple of twa pilots that would disagree with you. Sat a jumpseat on an american flight...the first thing the captain told me was that they weren't american pilots, they were twa pilots. Both fellas spent the next 3 hours explaining to me how apa abused them during their integration. They were both, obviously, very bitter about how they perceived they were treated. What has it been 13+ years now since that integration? So, please don't act like the apa rides around on white horses and are only interested in truth, justice and fairness.
To be fair, i have friends at aa that say the twa guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. Apa is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The usapa east guys will do the same for the east senior folks (not the third listers) and the usapa west representatives will do the same for the west folk. The usapa third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my aa friends tell me, the apa couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
Originally posted by eaglefly
i don't think it's in apa's best interest to screw anyone. They know that at some point everyone will be under their representational umbrella and if they go out of their way to screw large numbers of future members like the entire west, they just weaken themselves in the long run, at least i would hope they understand that.
I could introduce you to a couple of twa pilots that would disagree with you. Sat a jumpseat on an american flight...the first thing the captain told me was that they weren't american pilots, they were twa pilots. Both fellas spent the next 3 hours explaining to me how apa abused them during their integration. They were both, obviously, very bitter about how they perceived they were treated. What has it been 13+ years now since that integration? So, please don't act like the apa rides around on white horses and are only interested in truth, justice and fairness.
To be fair, i have friends at aa that say the twa guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. Apa is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The usapa east guys will do the same for the east senior folks (not the third listers) and the usapa west representatives will do the same for the west folk. The usapa third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my aa friends tell me, the apa couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
#45
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
I could introduce you to a couple of TWA pilots that would disagree with you. Sat a jumpseat on an American flight...the first thing the captain told me was that they weren't American pilots, they were TWA pilots. Both fellas spent the next 3 hours explaining to me how APA abused them during their integration. They were both, obviously, very bitter about how they perceived they were treated. What has it been 13+ years now since that integration? So, please don't act like the APA rides around on white horses and are only interested in truth, justice and fairness.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
#46
I could introduce you to a couple of TWA pilots that would disagree with you. Sat a jumpseat on an American flight...the first thing the captain told me was that they weren't American pilots, they were TWA pilots. Both fellas spent the next 3 hours explaining to me how APA abused them during their integration. They were both, obviously, very bitter about how they perceived they were treated. What has it been 13+ years now since that integration? So, please don't act like the APA rides around on white horses and are only interested in truth, justice and fairness.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
After AirCal and Reno were bought and dismantled, the TWA SLI was set up to protect AA pilots from the disaster in case AA shut down the TWA system.
Guess what? AMR shut down the TWA system. Even if they kept it as a moderate size hub, the TWA guys would have the fastest upgrades in the system.
Every STL bid line for the last 10 years has consisted of 70+ hours of flying AA has done for 30 years and 10 hours of former TWA routes.
To put it perspective, it's like Parker buying a AA consisting of DFW and MIA. He then shuts down DFW and MIA flying. The remaining AA guys fly all their trips out of CLT, PHX and DCA and then scream like banshees that they are getting mistreated.
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
I could introduce you to a couple of TWA pilots that would disagree with you. Sat a jumpseat on an American flight...the first thing the captain told me was that they weren't American pilots, they were TWA pilots. Both fellas spent the next 3 hours explaining to me how APA abused them during their integration. They were both, obviously, very bitter about how they perceived they were treated. What has it been 13+ years now since that integration? So, please don't act like the APA rides around on white horses and are only interested in truth, justice and fairness.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
To be fair, I have friends at AA that say the TWA guys made out like bandits, etc, etc. Who knows who is right. Guess that depends on where you sit. I do know this, though. APA is going to do everything in their power to make sure their senior guys are as advantaged as possible. The USAPA East guys will do the same for the East senior folks (not the third listers) and the USAPA West representatives will do the same for the West folk. The USAPA third listers won't have anyone fighting for them. The only thing a third lister has going for them is that, as my AA friends tell me, the APA couldn't care less about their junior guys...so we have that going for us.
I agree the APA will pull out all stops and won't give one thought to any law suit that might happen as a result. The TWA/ALPA 13+ year fight is perfect proof that APA has plenty of skill at this game.
I have long expected that the end result will be like UAL/CAL with large weighting for the APA wide bodies.
Under the new MOU we no longer have "third listers". We have two lists at USAir and I am happy to argue relative position all the way up and down. Most if not all of the so called third listers should be senior to the junior West guys, and only our newest hires in the last year should be mixed in with the junior guys on the West and APA.
But what do I know. I'm just along for the ride and enjoying every new bid that comes out as we wait.
#48
You didn't hear? The west reps quit today. Evidently they were being used as token window dressings with no real intention of allowing them any real input. Very disapointed, unfortunately not surprised.
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
The TWA guys probably didn't mention to you that their former flying is 95% gone. There is probably enough left to support 75 former TWA Captains. Is that a problem or concern for them? Nope. The more vocal ones say they still deserve nearly 1100 Captain slots.
After AirCal and Reno were bought and dismantled, the TWA SLI was set up to protect AA pilots from the disaster in case AA shut down the TWA system.
Guess what? AMR shut down the TWA system. Even if they kept it as a moderate size hub, the TWA guys would have the fastest upgrades in the system.
Every STL bid line for the last 10 years has consisted of 70+ hours of flying AA has done for 30 years and 10 hours of former TWA routes.
To put it perspective, it's like Parker buying a AA consisting of DFW and MIA. He then shuts down DFW and MIA flying. The remaining AA guys fly all their trips out of CLT, PHX and DCA and then scream like banshees that they are getting mistreated.
After AirCal and Reno were bought and dismantled, the TWA SLI was set up to protect AA pilots from the disaster in case AA shut down the TWA system.
Guess what? AMR shut down the TWA system. Even if they kept it as a moderate size hub, the TWA guys would have the fastest upgrades in the system.
Every STL bid line for the last 10 years has consisted of 70+ hours of flying AA has done for 30 years and 10 hours of former TWA routes.
To put it perspective, it's like Parker buying a AA consisting of DFW and MIA. He then shuts down DFW and MIA flying. The remaining AA guys fly all their trips out of CLT, PHX and DCA and then scream like banshees that they are getting mistreated.
We get it. The former LAS and PHX crews do 25% of their flying on CLT, PHL, DCA routes. We totally get it.
#50
I agree the APA will pull out all stops and won't give one thought to any law suit that might happen as a result. The TWA/ALPA 13+ year fight is perfect proof that APA has plenty of skill at this game.
I have long expected that the end result will be like UAL/CAL with large weighting for the APA wide bodies.
Under the new MOU we no longer have "third listers". We have two lists at USAir and I am happy to argue relative position all the way up and down. Most if not all of the so called third listers should be senior to the junior West guys, and only our newest hires in the last year should be mixed in with the junior guys on the West and APA.
But what do I know. I'm just along for the ride and enjoying every new bid that comes out as we wait.
I have long expected that the end result will be like UAL/CAL with large weighting for the APA wide bodies.
Under the new MOU we no longer have "third listers". We have two lists at USAir and I am happy to argue relative position all the way up and down. Most if not all of the so called third listers should be senior to the junior West guys, and only our newest hires in the last year should be mixed in with the junior guys on the West and APA.
But what do I know. I'm just along for the ride and enjoying every new bid that comes out as we wait.
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