Mil Leave questions for US Airways/American
03-11-2014, 02:20 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by NTR32
Legally speaking yes you can take as much Mil leave as you want. Practically speaking you'll hurt the people behind us by giving us a less than stellar reputation.
Conventional wisdom is that you do the minimum on probation. A conversion is not a mobilization order (required attendance) and chief pilots know it. It's no secret what is and isn't required when it comes to dealing with the guard/reserves. My unit is converting right now and we have people killing for pay days so I'm sure yours will understand if you drop off the radar on probation. Does taking mil leave really matter? Legally speaking it can't and US Air is pretty good about military leave because most of us don't abuse it.
One other tidbit- if you're coming from a mil only background you need to show up and fly. It's a transition and some of the military guys aren't that great. Personally I'm a guard baby but most of my flying is 121 so I see it from both ends. Big picture...six days a month is a lot I wouldn't push it past that point at all. Probation is only a year long...
Always know the facts:
https://www.osc.gov/userra.htm
Conventional wisdom is that you do the minimum on probation. A conversion is not a mobilization order (required attendance) and chief pilots know it. It's no secret what is and isn't required when it comes to dealing with the guard/reserves. My unit is converting right now and we have people killing for pay days so I'm sure yours will understand if you drop off the radar on probation. Does taking mil leave really matter? Legally speaking it can't and US Air is pretty good about military leave because most of us don't abuse it.
One other tidbit- if you're coming from a mil only background you need to show up and fly. It's a transition and some of the military guys aren't that great. Personally I'm a guard baby but most of my flying is 121 so I see it from both ends. Big picture...six days a month is a lot I wouldn't push it past that point at all. Probation is only a year long...
Always know the facts:
https://www.osc.gov/userra.htm
03-11-2014, 02:25 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A330 F/O, KC-135 AC
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Hueypilot
Yeah I understand that it's not a mob, but as one of two guys who was an schoolhouse IP on what may be our new airframe you can understand they want me to pitch in and upgrade guys. If it comes to that I will convey to the chief pilot it's not my intent to disappear from the airline, but I may do a couple short sets of orders to 1) get requal'd in the new airplane and 2) help the others get upgraded to MP/IP. Maybe 60-90 days total, and only because it would greatly help the unit out.
03-11-2014, 02:31 PM
#13
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Huey,
I wouldn't give it a second thought. You are not screwing the company. There are pilots that drop yr long mil leave right after trng.
People who screw the company are those who get their sked and then drop mil leave day before a rotation. Some mil orders are pop up but most know ahead of time and to continually drop trips right before checkin is much more of an abuse. Legal but abusive. Now I realize why people do it is if they commit to mil leave and that goes away they lose pay so some feel painted into a corner.
I wouldn't give it a second thought. You are not screwing the company. There are pilots that drop yr long mil leave right after trng.
People who screw the company are those who get their sked and then drop mil leave day before a rotation. Some mil orders are pop up but most know ahead of time and to continually drop trips right before checkin is much more of an abuse. Legal but abusive. Now I realize why people do it is if they commit to mil leave and that goes away they lose pay so some feel painted into a corner.
03-11-2014, 02:36 PM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
You can get fired for anything during probation without union intervention. Most contracts it lasts for one year or certain amount of hours (like 800) depending on contract. If alpa you don't pay dues your first year so you have that to look fwd to.
It makes it easier for the company to flush a hiring mistake in trng or for behavior once on line. Company not on witch hunt but not going to to put up with incompetence either. No one fired for taking mil leave as that would be illegal.
It makes it easier for the company to flush a hiring mistake in trng or for behavior once on line. Company not on witch hunt but not going to to put up with incompetence either. No one fired for taking mil leave as that would be illegal.
03-11-2014, 05:44 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by full of luv
You can get fired for anything during probation without union intervention. Most contracts it lasts for one year or certain amount of hours (like 800) depending on contract. If alpa you don't pay dues your first year so you have that to look fwd to.
It makes it easier for the company to flush a hiring mistake in trng or for behavior once on line. Company not on witch hunt but not going to to put up with incompetence either. No one fired for taking mil leave as that would be illegal.
It makes it easier for the company to flush a hiring mistake in trng or for behavior once on line. Company not on witch hunt but not going to to put up with incompetence either. No one fired for taking mil leave as that would be illegal.
Yes you can't be fired but you can ruin it for others. There certainly are many applications on file that won't ask for such leave..... Just saying.
03-11-2014, 05:45 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by NTR32
It's all understandable but I'd strongly advise against it. How will your flying skills be on a new plane after you bail for 60 or 90 days? Those things do matter... I'd be Strongly against a 90 day absence for many reasons. There's nothing to convey to your unit, you're a part timer so it's all volunteer unless they activate you.
03-11-2014, 09:00 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Guys in the military like rules and they don't waste brain cells on how to be diplomats. They get offended at any "encroachment" to their mil leave rights and know how to show it.
You will get all the mil leave you want regardless of how hard you kick people in the shins to get it. If you really want to devote yourself to going above and beyond to make a huge difference in the Air Force then the Chief pilot will applaud you for putting your new company on the back burner until the Air Force is squared away. It's patriotic. Chief pilots are very comfortable being the epitome of diplomats and would never let you know if they are offended.
You will get all the mil leave you want regardless of how hard you kick people in the shins to get it. If you really want to devote yourself to going above and beyond to make a huge difference in the Air Force then the Chief pilot will applaud you for putting your new company on the back burner until the Air Force is squared away. It's patriotic. Chief pilots are very comfortable being the epitome of diplomats and would never let you know if they are offended.
03-15-2014, 07:12 AM
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: C-17
Posts: 10
So what's a good number to keep both sides happy? A Crew Scheduling Sup briefed during my indoc that as long as mil guys communicate with them at least a month ahead and mil days are less than 4-6 days permonth, they could work with us so pay & schedule are not affected. Of course they would prefer new hires not go on mil leave over 30 days, but they understood the law.
Also, any opinions on crew scheduling' take for mil guys to communicate as much as possible with them? that they are truly there to work with us?
PMs are welcome too. Thanks!
Also, any opinions on crew scheduling' take for mil guys to communicate as much as possible with them? that they are truly there to work with us?
PMs are welcome too. Thanks!
03-15-2014, 11:53 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Originally Posted by iYuks
So what's a good number to keep both sides happy? A Crew Scheduling Sup briefed during my indoc that as long as mil guys communicate with them at least a month ahead and mil days are less than 4-6 days permonth, they could work with us so pay & schedule are not affected. Of course they would prefer new hires not go on mil leave over 30 days, but they understood the law.
Also, any opinions on crew scheduling' take for mil guys to communicate as much as possible with them? that they are truly there to work with us?
PMs are welcome too. Thanks!
Also, any opinions on crew scheduling' take for mil guys to communicate as much as possible with them? that they are truly there to work with us?
PMs are welcome too. Thanks!
Tell the truth. Be diplomatic. Treat the scheduled like your server at a restaurant. Treat your chief pilot like your boss, because he is. Treat both like they are doing you a favor by giving you. Mil leave. It's how they feel anyway.
Do the min Mil leave to meet requirements and spend your first year learning the contract and the new company, and when you are past probation take all the freaking orders you can get and want and don't do one day past 20 years!!
03-15-2014, 12:27 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,262
Originally Posted by meyers9163
After 5 years of such it's not.... Delta started recently being more strict on this. Sat next to their VA Chairman last March at membership seminar. I was shocked to hear the "crack" down he implied was getting ready to occur.
Yes you can't be fired but you can ruin it for others. There certainly are many applications on file that won't ask for such leave..... Just saying.
Yes you can't be fired but you can ruin it for others. There certainly are many applications on file that won't ask for such leave..... Just saying.
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