I believe that's pretty much a condition of the PA.....not sure, but the first emails said it would be dropped, as since we have an agreement, that nullifies the lawsuit...

It was the fact we didn't come to an agreement that USAPA wanted MB to start, and the suit was filed to make sure it did......the PA satisfies that I believe.

My bet is Monday. The NMB granted single carrier status on 8-8-14. That started a 30 day clock. The 30 days are up Sunday Sept. 7th. So my bet is Monday we will see the NMB certify the APA as the new union for all pilots at US Airways and American. However, USAPA will still represent the US Airways pilots regarding the SLI until that process is completed. So USAPA will still be around for while in an official capacity.

Now, if the APA becomes our union in 4 days, our dues will then start going to them. Curious, the APA is currently having a dues holiday for the months of August, September and October. So I'm wondering if we will not have any dues taken out of our pay until November when the dues holiday is over...

We'll probably still pay, due to "programming issues."

Truer words never spoken!

Oh trust me, we will pay., the fact that a PA has been agreed upon by all parties, the NMB will rule, and I'm sure there was a nod and wink for the NMB to not hold an election, and just certify APA. Obviously that's the smartest thing to do, but there was some rumor of some NMB guy with an axe to grind against the APA and he might force an election for APA or no union......fun times

My understanding is USAPA will shut down ASAP but the US E/W merger committee's will remain independent from APA, but be APA members. We shall see shortly.

Per APA negotiating member in our JS last month, the dues holiday will apply to LUS pilots once APA is certified as bargaining agent. I appreciate the comedy of a being syndic, but damn it's about everything!

IMO it can't happen soon enough!!

So, now that we have a protocol agreement, what is the next step and the time frame? Worst case, how long until the lists are integrated?

"...added that everything should theoretically be complete by 2 years after the POR, or Dec 9, 2015, as outlined in the MOU."

The next step is to dissolve USAPA and then, per the MOU, get us a JCBA. We can't begin arbitration until we have one. So basically the ball's now in Parker's court. If he wants to meet the SOC time frame he needs to step to the plate and get us something we can approve before Mid. Nov.

Who pays off USAPA's debt?

They plan on selling ties for $6.75. :D

Usapa has $13 million in the bank.

Subject to pending merger and legal disputes.

Not into posting union stuff but:



We thank the BPR for approving the Seniority Protocol Agreement (PA). As we have mentioned before, it provides the protections and tools to help us be successful in the Seniority List Integration (SLI) process with the APA pilots. The passage of the Protocol Agreement triggers a number of items:

Within 10 days of signing the PA, we will exchange the three certified seniority lists with the APA.
Within 14 days of signing, we and the APA will select three arbitrators for the McCaskill-Bond SLI arbitration. Within 5 days following the selection of the SLI Arbitration Board, we, the Company and the APA will select three other arbitrators for a Preliminary Arbitration Board to hear any applications by pilots from the West seniority list who desire a separate West merger committee to represent their interests in the SLI process.
Additionally, within 14 days, we and the APA will commence a 45-day period that may be used to negotiate items specified in paragraph 5b of the Protocol Agreement, including employment data, snapshot date, fleet, staffing, and bidding patterns. This timeline may be extended by mutual agreement.
Once APA becomes certified as the bargaining agent, pilots from the West seniority list who are requesting separate representation will have 14 days to apply to the Preliminary Arbitration Board.

30 days after the closing of the application process, the preliminary arbitration hearings must be completed (subject to the arbitrators’ schedules).
Those hearings will last no more than 5 days.
30 days following the start of the hearing, the arbitrators will issue or deny separate representation.
If the arbitrators allow a West committee, within 14 days, the parties will revisit paragraph 8c of the PA and exchange data and information as well as reconsider any issues unresolved by the committees.
There are other major SLI events described within the Protocol Agreement that will be triggered upon the completion of the JCBA:

The arbitration hearing process, including any prehearing conferences, will begin as soon as practical.
The arbitration hearing will be limited to 12 days, but may be extended by 4 days if required, either by agreement or by order of the Arbitration Board.
Once concluded, the Arbitration Board will set a schedule for the submission of post-hearing briefs and/or oral arguments.
The Arbitration Board will issue its draft award.
The parties will have 10 days to comment on the award but no new exhibits/evidence are allowed.
The parties then have 5 days to respond to the comments of other parties.
The Final SLI Award will be issued within 6 months from the start of the McCaskill-Bond SLI arbitration hearing, but no later than December 9, 2015 which is 24 months after the transaction/effective date.
The Arbitration Board will retain jurisdiction over its SLI award to resolve any disputes that may arise over interpretation, application, or implementation of the award.
Throughout the process, we will do our best to keep you informed as we are able, without compromising our cases or proposals. We completely understand the personal importance these SLI proceedings will have for each one of our pilots. Thank you for your support as we enter this critical phase of the merger with American Airlines. We look forward to representing you.

USAPA Merger Committee

After that, how long for USAPA to pitch a temper tantrum and start filing lawsuits?

Typo there. You meant AOL.

No..pretty sure that wasn't a typo.

Well both sides have a long and storied history of using the court system. I say it's time to chill and take a wait-and-see stance. Or at least have fun with it and take a bet on who sues first

So the $700 (financing available) ties "For Justice" are there to fund a Disneyland outing?

Saw this on another board,

Besides, USAPA isnt going to ask for DOH. The BPR meeting took the cuffs off the C&B the other day and now the merger committee can provide evidence that the East pilots deserve BETTER than DOH over the APA.

What is better than DOH and why is USAPA thinking they are deserving of better than that?

That's one pilots opinion and I'm pretty sure it was just to flame. The context was that USAPA was not bound to DOH and it isn't and never really was.

That's interesting. Can you provide a link?

Sure it was, slick. Was it one pilot's opinion to cheat the America West pilots with the arbitration you agreed? I guess you were not bound to that either.

"Better than DOH". Considering that many lUS pilots have been around as long as or longer than many lAA pilots, I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. So...staple the APA guys below lUS pilots? I see THAT happening... (<--- note sarcasm)

Again, I think too many of you get too wrapped up in what you read on the interwebs. Yes...be aware of what's going on. But as someone already said, I think that statement doesn't represent what the vast majority US Airways pilots would expect in any SLI. Every captain I've flown with is hoping for a fair blending of the lists to account for LOS and other factors. For those of us hired after the merger was announced, we pretty much expect a straight DOH for most of us.

I know the author slick, do you? I probably did use the wrong term with "flame" as I don't think that was his intention, but it was in response to a west guy and and his interpretation of what the BPR did. I don't think it's taking the gloves off, it's not allowing the C&BLs loose language tie the merger committees hands.

As far as the Nic goes, you really should keep up. The MOU we all agreed to abandoned the never implemented SLI. And those aren't my words slick, they are the Army of Leonidas', in Addington II. It's all available for you at cactuspilot.com if you would like to educate yourself, but I have a feeling that you are adverse to that type of thing.

The MOU and PA finish this. We compromised, as we should have a long time ago. It's up to two panels of arbitrators now. With a few lawyers thrown in for old time sake.

Anytime you take a web board post from one pilot as an indication of the entire groups thought, you are headed for disaster.

DOH does not serve many parts of the US seniority list well, it hasn't been used in decades that I know of, and tying the hands of the merger committee can lead to disaster. I took the update to mean that the merger committee has been tasked to look at any and all options to try and come up with a fair solution.

Many people think that the USAPA C&BLs required the use of DOH. It never did. It called for the use of DOH principles which is a vague term that can mean a lot of things, but in general it means that your time worked should mean something.

I agree in principle that time put in with a company should be honored. I had a friend from ground school who was hired at Piedmont just before they announced the merger with USAir in 1989. He got hired at a bustling airline that was doing well, and expected to have a decent career.

Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.

At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.

I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...

Call your attention to paragraph #3

The Nic is your problem. You are the ones getting lawsuits thrown at you by the America West Pilots to this day. USAPA withheld information from the APA which shows a certain character trait, slick. Now, you want to pull the same stunts with the APA? How about brushing up on the APA updates.

Seniority Integration Protocol: The Facts

posted on June 23, 2014 17:23
To be blunt, USAPA's version of events is fiction. USAPA leadership specifically and directly solicited this latest protocol proposal from the Seniority Integration Committee. USAPA's merger counsel was also briefed on the likely content of the protocol document several days before receipt. USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding.

You aren't doing a very good job of pulling the wool over my eyes or Neil's for that matter. You certainly don't deserve better than DOH over the APA.

Nice try on the damage control because I am not buying it.

Good post Huey. Itshows that you can, without a dog in the fight, look at both sides and empathize.

One problem some people have, especially those outside the fight, is looking at one aspect of this and coming to false conclusions. Like "A deal is a deal!" Well, as FG says above, the first agreement was for separate ops until a JCBA, which never happened.

In the end we compromised. An arbitration panel will decide about a west committee and if the west gets one I assume they will propose the Nicolau award as the starting point and an arbitration panel will decide on that. time to accept it and move on.

Agree 100%. Unfortunatly, for the West, it will never be made right. At this point even if the the NIC were implemented tomorrow, it would still never be made right in their view. Many of them, especially the extremists out there, will carry their hatred and bad attitudes for the rest of their career. As a fairly new guy I always smile and say hi to everyone. I stopped doing that out in PHX or if I see one of those guys with their $700 tie. I always get snubbed anyway even though its obvious I wasn't hear when all that went down. Personally, I could care less about them or anyone who goes out of their way to make this job more difficult than it really needs to be.

I won't stop saying hi. I've gotten worse than just being snubbed, but I'm not going to let those miserable folks change the way I live my life.

I commute on west flown metal all the time and have yet to experience any negativity towards me - even from the guys with the tie. Guess I've been lucky!

Regardless, I'm a kill-em-with-kindness kind of guy anyway. I'm not going to let some ****ed off dude ruin my day. :)

Nic ...
 

West pilots are in a frustrating position. They like the East chose a long hard road, but nothing has been decided yet. Hopefully we see an SLI that benefits all parties equally.

Ah man, revisionist history already starting? Did you boys forget the damage usapa has caused not only the west but every east pilot? You guys forget 10 + years of loa 93? The east pilots damaged everyone on this property and that should never be forgotten.

The problem with your buddies stagnant career was US Air (the original one) They had 18-20 year FO's as you stated.

Just because they got purchased buy America West? well that wasn't their chance to "make everything right" with their career on the backs of the original America West Pilots...it's really that simple and about as objective as one can be.

Now there should have been fences in place for USAIR widebody flying AND international flying?....sure. But DOH integration is not fair and equitable as the Nic award indicated

Are you in PHX? Are our wages the best? NO. If you aren't living a good life there then that's self induced and stupidity on your part. Stop whining.

Houses there are so cheap.

East pilots decision to keep their seniority during the last near decade at lower pay rates is pretty obvious.

I'm not sure if they caused and damage, or if they saved the airline from bankruptcy.

The VPs, and Directors at my last company told me for years that airways/AmWest was going out of business, and they honestly believed it.

We really need to consider moving forward at this point. There will be a ruling, and there won't be recourse beyond that.

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