Agreed, with no "but" or "in this case" needed. Grouping "the East" into one heap and trying to exact some revenge is stupid and I'm a really getting tired of the jabs about it being thrown.

There is plenty of reason to be upset. It's how that anger is directed and who it's directed at that has at times become questionable...and more than a little embarrassing. I'm sure you feel that way about the small number of extremists in the 3rd list ranks, if that is in fact your group.

Frankly, I think the entire membership should get leftover dues money back, regardless of what side of the Mississippi you're based on. But, yes...for all pilots wanting to move forward, today is a good day.

East West....

Keep arguing, we are all about to find out about "occupational date"
Management and the APA played us all, and the scary part is, nobody is paying any attention.

Well yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking the West has a bigger gripe when it comes to "improper" use of union dues.

I'm pretty slow. Can you explain what you mean in terms of APA playing the US group?

Exactly. US pilots are so ready to let their guard down and get their dues money back when they don't realize that the US side of the merger committee has a long, hard road ahead over the next 14+ months.... they need our support and finances, we shouldn't just give up and throw our total trust into APA right now.

APA is not the angel we've all been waiting for. I hope for the best. Trust, but verify.

I'm not sure where you're going with this or what you may have heard. My understanding is that at AA they base seniority off their "occupational date", that being the day they become qualified after training. Under that method, if a pilot is hired (DOH) on a particular date and another pilot is hired in a later class yet finishes training first, the second pilot will be more senior even though he was hired and came on the property several weeks AFTER the first.

Now when dealing with the SLI between US/AA, there is a discrepancy on the dates used for seniority since US uses DOH. My understanding is that in order to make it more fair, a pre-determined amount of time should be added to AA pilots to bring them even with the US pilots. That would be complicated, but it can be done.

Now, if you're suggesting that the APA will now say it must go by occupational date and that EVERY US pilot now has an occupational date of 9-16-2014, that would essentially be a complete staple job. I don't know what has been discussed in negotiations, but I would have to assume it has been addressed. At least in US agreeing to allow AA to add some time to their occupational date to bring them on par with our method. Or if some prefer, subtract a certain amount of time from US pilots to bring us on par with the AA method. Either way, the current order on the separate seniority lists cannot be changed, but a common denominator must be established.

I doubt an arbitration panel would allow such a staple method given that they have to work under the M/B rules of engagement. A stance like that from the APA would absolutely send this thing to arbitration.

Exactly. I'm happy the APA is the new union representing all 15,000 pilots. I voted ALPA out because I wanted all the cronies gone. Same guys year after year feeding at the union trough. Didn't take long to see it ramp right up with the new players.

I think the West jubilation is overplayed.

Yes, the APA supports a West merger committee, as do I, but to think the West AOL crowd is getting the keys to step in with the Nic award?

The President will probably solicit the America West pilot group for volunteers, appoint 3 of his choosing and that will be that.

The West committee will push for the Nic at the preliminary arbitration and will be opposed by the American/ Us Airways merger committees. The MOU clearly states 3 lists, the Nic will be trashed and we'll be using the 3 lists in effect on whatever snapshot date is taken in 2013.

Just my take.

How about DOH with 10 year fences. After 10 years most of us will be retired.

You obviously haven't read the PA and the MOU as you couldn't be more wrong.

Brilliant reply good Sir.