APA Reps Speak Out About Company's JCBA Offer
01-07-2015, 04:02 PM
#21
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
My first suspicion was the rush job that was being put on this in the first place. Im glad you guys figured it out; it was to beat the Delta earnings call scheduled for I think January 23rd. So rushed in fact that the language hadn't been completed, a tell-tale sign that they were either not expecting you to really accept it, or that they are not ready for arbitration. You have been given a gift with this recent information. Im proud of your group for standing up for whats right.
yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.
yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.
01-07-2015, 04:12 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: recalled until the next round of right sizing to optimise synergies
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by ghilis101
yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.
01-07-2015, 04:16 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by ghilis101
My first suspicion was the rush job that was being put on this in the first place. Im glad you guys figured it out; it was to beat the Delta earnings call scheduled for I think January 23rd. So rushed in fact that the language hadn't been completed, a tell-tale sign that they were either not expecting you to really accept it, or that they are not ready for arbitration. You have been given a gift with this recent information. Im proud of your group for standing up for whats right.
yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.
yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.
01-07-2015, 04:39 PM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by AB YZS
Parker Kirby and Glass set a timeline to accept their proposal or go to arbitration. They then extend the deadline after asking APA to extend for 30 days. Afterwards, they tell APA they won't address any of the pilots' concerns and must only address the company's wants. Then, they say the APA must agree to their demands by a certain date and then don't have the final language for their own demands on their own arbitrary fabricated deadline. Then they try and circumvent the union by sending a letter from Kirby to all pilots. I can wait for the pay raise in 2016. Priceless. Vote NO!
So far, it's worked masterfully.
This NO ONE can deny.
01-07-2015, 04:54 PM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by eaglefly
All standard union-busting techniques. That's why Jerry Glass is spearheading Parker's assault on New AA pilots. To bust a "union", you must fragment the leadership thus invalidating them and then fragment the membership by turning segments of them both against themselves and the leadership.
So far, it's worked masterfully.
This NO ONE can deny.
So far, it's worked masterfully.
This NO ONE can deny.
Wiser: Getting Beyond Groupthink to Make Groups Smarter: Cass R. Sunstein, Reid Hastie: 9781422122990: Amazon.com: Books
A quote from the author
"When hardliners are presented with empirical data their position gets further entrenched regardless of the logical nature of their decision."
It's a pretty interesting book. The union leadership could learn a lot from reading it. Every time I hear a union meeting and the talking that goes on, I think of that book.
The company knows what we'll do before we do it. They employ a lot of smart people. The union leadership relies on simple things like flying safely to bully their positions. Not a very effective long term method IMO. Insert "Pen being mightier than the sword" cliché.
01-07-2015, 05:04 PM
#26
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
do you really believe the APA proposal to accept and immediately ratify the current proposal if it included the AWA long rig was a hard line stance? What the BOD did there was an incredibly fair compromise that would have been a win for the company and a decent draw for you. Instead, the company took the hardline stance, is circumventing the BOD and going to direct to you. Its in your hands. I for one think that they are throwing out one last shot at you, and if you vote no youll get the long rig, similar to min calendar day. They've already made a series of mistakes (incomplete language coupled with an unreasonable ultimatum) that will hurt them if this goes to arbitration, even if the arbitrator is pro company.
01-07-2015, 05:04 PM
#27
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by inline five
You need to lay off the union conference calls.
Wiser: Getting Beyond Groupthink to Make Groups Smarter: Cass R. Sunstein, Reid Hastie: 9781422122990: Amazon.com: Books
A quote from the author
"When hardliners are presented with empirical data their position gets further entrenched regardless of the logical nature of their decision."
It's a pretty interesting book. The union leadership could learn a lot from reading it. Every time I hear a union meeting and the talking that goes on, I think of that book.
The company knows what we'll do before we do it. They employ a lot of smart people. The union leadership relies on simple things like flying safely to bully their positions. Not a very effective long term method IMO. Insert "Pen being mightier than the sword" cliché.
Wiser: Getting Beyond Groupthink to Make Groups Smarter: Cass R. Sunstein, Reid Hastie: 9781422122990: Amazon.com: Books
A quote from the author
"When hardliners are presented with empirical data their position gets further entrenched regardless of the logical nature of their decision."
It's a pretty interesting book. The union leadership could learn a lot from reading it. Every time I hear a union meeting and the talking that goes on, I think of that book.
The company knows what we'll do before we do it. They employ a lot of smart people. The union leadership relies on simple things like flying safely to bully their positions. Not a very effective long term method IMO. Insert "Pen being mightier than the sword" cliché.
I'm sorry, but you stray too far from JUST being a self-convinced yes voter with posts like this and quite frankly I suspect you're doing the biding for others here. Unionbuster66 is and it wouldn't surprise me if you were the same person, just with different personas, because with posts like this it's tough to tell a difference.
...and please spare me any "tinfoil hat" nonsense. That's the usual safe haven when people say what you say here and may be exposed for what they really are.
01-07-2015, 05:18 PM
#28
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by ghilis101
do you really believe the APA proposal to accept and immediately ratify the current proposal if it included the AWA long rig was a hard line stance? What the BOD did there was an incredibly fair compromise that would have been a win for the company and a decent draw for you. Instead, the company took the hardline stance, is circumventing the BOD and going to direct to you. Its in your hands. I for one think that they are throwing out one last shot at you, and if you vote no youll get the long rig, similar to min calendar day. They've already made a series of mistakes (incomplete language coupled with an unreasonable ultimatum) that will hurt them if this goes to arbitration, even if the arbitrator is pro company.
It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.
My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.
The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotiations" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.
Last edited by inline five; 01-07-2015 at 05:44 PM.
01-07-2015, 05:22 PM
#29
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by inline five
No I dont. I think the APA's insistence to well overshoot each time was a major part in the company acting like it did however. The company showed the APA who was running the show this time around.
It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.
My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.
The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotions" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.
It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.
My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.
The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotions" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.
01-07-2015, 05:25 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by inline five
No I dont. I think the APA's insistence to well overshoot each time was a major part in the company acting like it did however. The company showed the APA who was running the show this time around.
It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.
My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.
The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotions" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.
It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.
My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.
The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotions" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.
If Parker goes not need or want that, he'll just kick the can for 5 years which is common.
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