The mou moved that question to the arbs, it didn't say 3 lists or nicolau or DOH. It says simply the mou will not be used to change the lists in effect l, the arbitrator decides. No one knows how that will go, our position is usairways was a single airline and under single corporate control in 2005, that position is irrefutable. Wether or not the arbitrator uses it doesn't lessen the fact it's a "solid" position/argument and one that was adopted in cal/ual merge

Btw I wanted to bring this up just to show you how your argument is so flawed and how easily it's tackled in arb. First west pilots had access and pay scales for the widebodies including 330/350 all that had to happen was for a west pilot to be furloughed(furloughed west pilots fly 330 on east side) or management to chose to base those aircraft in phoenix, those aircraft are on the usairways certificate not the "east" certificate. Let's talk about west "low pay", you do understand west narrowbody pilots out earned east wide body pilots until this merger right? More vacation? More days off? Higher guarantees? Bigger w2? Higher check airmen pay? Now it's possible the arbitrators will decide to punish the west for what the east pilots have done but read the findings of fact that just gave the west a seat, they won't change for the seniority arb.

Reality is going to come crashing down on the east in 2015. It is quite clear from reading the preliminary arbitration transcripts that the company, APA, the west, and even the arbitrators were not buying any of the East arguments. Jess Pauley came across as a true simpleton when cross examined by Freund and the arbitrators. I don't have it on me but I loved the exchange between the lead arbitrator and Jess Pauley when he got Pauley to admit that he was trying, in essence, to redo Nicalou's work by creating a new list according to what Jess thought was fair.

The West has A350's on order and there are West pilots currently flying 767's and 330's. To argue that West pilots do not have widebody career expectations is a losing argument. I hope the East merger committee tries to make that argument.

I think we are looking at a repeat of the last merger. The East MC will make a proposal that the arbitrators will reject entirely. The jihadis out east will not let the MC promote anything reasonable and the arbitrators will have no choice but to adopt a combination of West and AA proposals.

There will be the option of integrating the NIC into AA or else starting from scratch and figuring out an equitable way to integrate three lists. Considering the complexities of trying to do that I think it's quite obvious that the arbitrators will lean heavily on the work completed by the most respected arbitrator in the country. As Silver stated an arbitrated result is strong evidence of a fair result.

It took nearly a decade but it looks like justice will ultimately prevail. Hopefully Flying the Line Volume 3 will have a couple chapters dedicated to the abomination that was USAPA.

The next order of business will be personally bankrupting the USAPA officers who have been illegally withholding West dues since USAPA was voted out of office. I believe they are holding in excess of $11 million dollars of dues money. I imagine the East officers are working feverishly to hide assets. Karma is a b#tch :D

There is an exchange between Jess Pauley and the arbitrator during the preliminary arbitration that covers this very topic. The arbitrator said you need a Us Airways list to merge with AA since it's a merger of two airlines not three. Jess Pauley danced around the questions but it looks like the arbitrator wasn't buying his logic.

This isn't over. Not by a long shot.

No it's not over, it's going to get a lot worse for the East. I'm sure the arbitrators will recognise that DOH is the "Gold Standard." They can't all be senile right?

If I was an Eastie I would start petitioning hard to get a new MC chairman. I don't think you are going to be happy with the results from your "real men doing serious work." Reminds me of that saying that those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.....

I understand the process and I disagree. Each committee will propose an integration methodology that they believe results in a fair and equitable ISL. In fact, as I stated in previous posts on this subject, there are no limits in what any of the committee can argue, although overreaching has risks. To say the AAL pilots committee is prevented from arguing X or Y means the West committee would be limited for arbitrary reasons as well. They aren't. Your committee will be free to put forth anything it desires. The A pilots integration models (of which there are many) use different scenarios. The AA pilots most fair and equitable models do not include the pure Nic. I know YOU think the Nic is sacrosanct, but AAL pilots do not and the AAL integration committee represents LAA pilots and not West or East pilots.

Obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree on this because I don't see a meeting of the minds.

I assume this is what your committee will be arguing. Ours will be arguing against this and will consider THIS flawed. That's the point if arbitration. I understand we differ and will not embrace each other's logic. I have no idea what your committee will argue (aside from the Nic) or what models they will present in regards to us, but I do know a little about ours.

Absent this merger, West pilots had no reasonable expectations of accessing East flying. Unfair, absolutely, but a reality. There was no resolution in sight for the pre-merger US Airways pilots conundrum to resolve that. Even Silver admitted that until the East attempted to force their own seniority list, there was no DFR. The weight (whatever the arbitrators assign it) of "pre-merger career expectations" must be accounted at true pre-merger, not post merger using a strawman argument of what the East may argue now or claiming this integration requires past dots to be connected that could not be. That is not what the pre-merger expectation component (whatever its assigned weight by the arbitrators) is. Thus in regards to access to LAA widebody flying, there would have to be fences.

That may be a workable idea though. The arbitrations hybrid model could fence West pilots only into East widebody flying for X number of years to protect LAA pilot pre-merger career expectations. To demand the pure Nic and then merge the West into AA without protections such as that would simply be a windfall for West pilots and I think this arbitration will avoid that.

I understand many here on the West passionately disagree, but the LAA committees ONLY responsibility is to the interests of pre-merger AA pilots and will negotiate with that in mind. The APA as an entity is only responsible to produce a fair process for all three parties to argue whatever they wish and that has now been accomplished.