PHL expansion and the death of CLT?
 

With the expansion plan for PHL set to continue, what does this say for the future of the CLT hub?

http://www.eminentdomainpa.com/repeal-is-rejected-in-philadelphia-airport-expansion-case/

One of the VPs told us in new hire class that CLT is the most profitable hub in the system. So my guess is it ain't going away soon.

(And this included the American hubs-according to this VP.)

Welcome aboard!

CLT was recently listed as the 7th busiest airport in the world (takeoff and landing events). PHL much lower...

and by passenger traffic CLT is in the top 25 but PHL isn't even in the top 50. I don't think CLT will fall off the edge of the earth any time soon. :D

Yeah, but how much of that traffic that CLT carries has to be in CLT?

Westbound connections can much more efficiently be handled through DFW/ORD.

Europe-bound traffic can much more efficiently be handled through JFK/PHL, especially if PHL expands. And also, for any passengers originating out west, ORD/DFW serve as good connection points to Europe as well.

Heading south, MIA covers just about everything.

Up and down the east coast, you have LGA/PHL/DCA.


It seems to me, the only traffic that needs to be going through is stuff around the central eastern coast. Thats not a whole lot. Sure, right now, those passengers have to connect somewhere, and that place is CLT. But, when synergies come, they're going to be reduced from where they can most easily be done... and that is going to be the cities that don't have a strong local market and need for a hub.

My guess is that CLT survives, at half of its current size.
- All Europe gone, except for maybe 1-2 flights on 767s to LHR... maybe flown by BA or staffed from another base.
- All Caribbean gone, except for the main cities, SJU/MBJ/PUJ/SXM.
- All smaller city west coast flying gone, leaving LAX/SFO/SEA/PHX/LAS.
- Lots of RJs and a only narrowbody mainline pilot base.

This article is from 2012.

If they downsize CLT, they'll just be giving DAL the entire southeast, it isn't going anywhere imo


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This is most recent:

Philadelphia Airport Redesigns Expansion Plans to Avoid Tinicum Township Homes -

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MANIFEST DESTINY, FOOLS!


"All the land that the light touches, that is Delta's."

"What about that dark area, father?"

"That is Memphis. You must never go there."

FWIW, CLT is also expanding. Fourth parallel runway will eventually go in, and then they'll take out RWY 23 and start turning that area into a more efficient terminal layout.

CLT will probably lose a chunk of the international flying, but the domestic flying will likely continue unabated. It's a moneymaker for the company. I seriously doubt it'll decline by half.

I'll miss that hump

Plus PHL has HORRIBLE weather!

1"-to 3" of snow shuts the whole airport down. And when ice hits, it is full-retard zombie apocalypse!

-Sure, CLT has bad storms every once in a while, but not 6 times per month.

PHL is definitely not a good wx airport. Definitely a factor.

IMHO. CLT is too close to ATL. Wont want to abandon that region for folks who dont want Delta.... Imagine that. Lol

PHL allows them around congestion and slot restrictions from NYC with a viable intl alternative. Just sayin....either way were all just along for the ride. ;)

If CLT survives as a hub it will buck the trend of small-market hubs disappearing - MEM, CVG, PIT. CLT has very very low O & D, ala RDU & BNA. "Most profitable" hub, maybe in terms of margin due to very low costs certainly not in raw $$ amounts. "7th busiest airport" Fresno could be the 7th busiest airport if you decide to funnel all your connections through it.

Fresno would be a poor choice for a hub to serve traffic east of the Mississippi, but it would be a much better domicile than PHX.. or CLT for that matter. :D

What do your crystal balls show for PHX going forward?

Too big to move to LAX, too small to add a ton of international. I see it staying put unless they find a way to get a lot more gates at LAX.

CLT is listed as one of the top ranked cities in the country in terms of growth for 2014. Raleigh is on the list as well. CLT isn't going anywhere.

This is anther poorly worded thread title...

Death of CLT? The city is growing and its costs are way under Atlanta's. The scope of its future is unknown, but MIA cannot effectively serve the southeast. Most U.S. sourced traffic does not prefer to fly to MIA to connect to AVL.

PHX will outlast CLT.

Oh no you dinn't

Radio active waste 1/2 lives are pretty long.

Not too long ago I sat next to an AA Director in a department that is in part of the planning process. He was was very forthright about things at AA.

CLT is the cheapest hub in the country while still being one of the most profitable for its host city. They are building a new terminal which was originally going to be international but now will be domestic. He said AA was in CLT to stay and will take every gate there they can get.

Legacy AA hubs are going to be re-timed and PHX is history after reconstruction projects in LA are finished in 2-5 years, according to him.

The NE bases will remain intact and they would like to increase PHL ops because NY is maxed, but they need more gates.

CLT airport expansion plan for next 10-15 years will make it look just like ATL with the staggered terminals..

"We have no plans to further downsize Pittsburgh."

Plans stated to the public and actual plans are rarely the same.

I was in Pit the other week ago. Looks like they are redoing the floors and shops there.

Pit Expansion here we come!!!!

The amount of construction on the CLT airport over the last five years is not a "public plan". Assumptions that CLT will look like PIT in the next five years is only possible if you have an axe to grind. :D

It's well known that CLT was a money-maker for Doug and Scott, and will likely continue to be into the future. There's no other reasonable location to put a southeast hub. MIA is primarily Latin America and other international destinations. PHL is fine for the Northeast and international, but can't reasonably serve all the smaller markets in the southeast. If they shutter CLT, they'll basically hand over the SE United States to Delta and Southwest.

PHX is a different matter...it's really too hot to serve as a good jumping off point for the far east Asian markets. It could possibly serve as a decent west-coast domestic hub, but that depends on how much LAX can grow. If LAX stays relatively flat, they'll probably make LAX more of an international gateway while keeping more of the domestic stuff out of PHX.

I have heard good rumors that the PHX training center will most likely close regardless of the future of the PHX domicile.

All true. CLT is the place. All the "Death of CLT" crap is just that....CRAP. If anyone thinks for one second CLT is the next PIT they better go into the ditch digging business. CLT has most likely had HIGH LEVEL discussions with AAL and the reason the fourth runway and terminal renovation(s) are fast tracked.

Even PHL is getting in on the action with a third runway and extensions.

In short....IT'S ALL GOOD for our future.

You're on the APA business "intelligence" committee. Right?

Having Domiciles in NYC, PHL, DCA, CLT, and MIA makes good sense. Don't think Dougie has that much in his liquor cabinet to make that work. I think the only one that will shrink is NYC. He even mentioned in his fireside chats that NYC isn't a gateway city. All the international comes from people who live there. PHL on the other hand just screams connection city. Remember you don't have to be smart to be CEO, just an alcoholic. We're glad you're here!

APA Intelligence.... You made an oxymoron.

Wilson and his merry band are well dressed lackeys for Parker.

While you may be right about NYC, since it's already happening anyway, I do not think it will go away completely and remain a domicile IMO. Transcons, transatlantic flights and hubfeed while not as inspiring as Delta and to a lesser extent United in EWR shall continue and you can't overnight that many flight crew's with all that flying. I think PHL will grow by virtue of its position as an east coast hub with some International flying that will be fed by it. But as a pure O&D market, it can never compare to NYC. Like LAX, you might not be the biggest or best in the market, but you need to have a presence there. I hope DP doesn't underestimate the value of NYC. He's putting a lot of resources into DFW and I have my doubts about its role as an international player. Two places you cannot run from to be a dominant player in the US are LAX and NYC. Passing through ORD, DFW, or MIA to get there is not an option...again, all from observation with no numbers to back it up of course.

Pretty good analysis on CLT's future came out last night from CAPA. They seem to think that CLT isn't going anywhere (and they're right more often than not...).

Charlotte Airport remains key in American's network even as international growth is longer term aim | CAPA - Centre for Aviation