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Old 04-07-2015, 01:21 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by DCA A321 FO View Post
The west is proud of everything west, they saved US Air and they saved AA, God bless those guys.
The west is only proud that we stopped the east in their tracks, lying thieving union busters that they are.
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:28 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss View Post
The west is only proud that we stopped the east in their tracks, lying thieving union busters that they are.
This is why I don't want a union here anymore. The APA took the West side over a legitimately voted in union and we now have 1500 union busters hating 3500 "union busters".

I am strictly a company man now and I make sure every new hire knows that to have a good career simply follow the SOPs, do your job, go home and enjoy your families. The Company has your back, the APA and the West are going to only make things worst.

When 2020 comes around you'll be making Captain and you'll be making more money regardless what the union does so enjoy it because you'll be thankful you won't have to jerk the gear for West guys or APA troublemakers like cactiboss.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by DCA A321 FO View Post
The west is proud of everything west, they saved US Air and they saved AA, God bless those guys.
Yeah, seeing one of their more "visible" members with a following posts all over social media about how AWA saved AA is a bit much.
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:14 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by The Drizzle View Post
Yeah, seeing one of their more "visible" members with a following posts all over social media about how AWA saved AA is a bit much.
I'm sure statements like that would go over quite well in DFW Ops,at an APA Board Meeting or the SLI hearings.
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:53 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
This is why I don't want a union here anymore. The APA took the West side over a legitimately voted in union and we now have 1500 union busters hating 3500 "union busters".

I am strictly a company man now and I make sure every new hire knows that to have a good career simply follow the SOPs, do your job, go home and enjoy your families. The Company has your back, the APA and the West are going to only make things worst.

When 2020 comes around you'll be making Captain and you'll be making more money regardless what the union does so enjoy it because you'll be thankful you won't have to jerk the gear for West guys or APA troublemakers like cactiboss.

I disagree with, well, EVERYTHING that you just wrote. The vast majority of pilots” follow the SOPs” do our jobs and go home and enjoy our families. There are not, "1500 union busters hating 3500 union busters.” This web board paints a statically biased picture. It’s just the nature of the beast and when we come here we take everything posted with a ton of salt.
We need unions – strong unions. If we had, had strong, centralized unions and minimum certification standards established immediately following deregulation, we would not have been hosed as bad as we were. The future is not at all guaranteed for airline labor. As far as the company having “your back” – They have a bull’s-eye right on it. When things get rough, you will be the very first place they come looking. What you should be telling new hires is that they represent red ink at American. (This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you don’t think that you or your profession has some intrinsic value beyond the math.) Act accordingly. Yes, do your job. Enjoy your family but also never forget.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:01 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by justjack View Post
I disagree with, well, EVERYTHING that you just wrote. The vast majority of pilots” follow the SOPs” do our jobs and go home and enjoy our families. There are not, "1500 union busters hating 3500 union busters.” This web board paints a statically biased picture. It’s just the nature of the beast and when we come here we take everything posted with a ton of salt.
We need unions – strong unions. If we had, had strong, centralized unions and minimum certification standards established immediately following deregulation, we would not have been hosed as bad as we were. The future is not at all guaranteed for airline labor. As far as the company having “your back” – They have a bull’s-eye right on it. When things get rough, you will be the very first place they come looking. What you should be telling new hires is that they represent red ink at American. (This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you don’t think that you or your profession has some intrinsic value beyond the math.) Act accordingly. Yes, do your job. Enjoy your family but also never forget.
You have a right to disagree. So do I. I choose to join or not join organizations in the U.S. Not so with labor unions....the ONLY organization other than government where they can take your money. Those days are ending soon and I know the APA doesn't have my back as long as they treat us differently than themselves. Just like the TWA pilots, the new hire pilots seniority IS for sale sometime in the future. Just like the West pilots think they deserve more value in their seniority than ours our "profession" is the one with the targets on our backs and it is because OF the unions...not the Company who pays me my check. Not the union.

Which brings me to this question: Why does the employees at APA need a union there if the APA is such a "benevolent" employer?
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:51 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
You have a right to disagree. So do I. I choose to join or not join organizations in the U.S. Not so with labor unions....the ONLY organization other than government where they can take your money. Those days are ending soon and I know the APA doesn't have my back as long as they treat us differently than themselves. Just like the TWA pilots, the new hire pilots seniority IS for sale sometime in the future. Just like the West pilots think they deserve more value in their seniority than ours our "profession" is the one with the targets on our backs and it is because OF the unions...not the Company who pays me my check. Not the union.

Which brings me to this question: Why does the employees at APA need a union there if the APA is such a "benevolent" employer?
WE are the union and WE are responsible for our failures. Fix the system, but don’t throw out the entire baby. Like taxes, we all benefit from the goods our money buys. Also like taxes, we may disagree with how our money is used, but if anyone could opt out of paying dues while still receiving the benefits of union representation (free rider) eventually, none of us would have representation. (Just what corporate America wants, but you have said that you are a company man) Freeloaders will always want to get rid of union dues.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:41 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by justjack View Post
WE are the union and WE are responsible for our failures. Fix the system, but don’t throw out the entire baby. Like taxes, we all benefit from the goods our money buys. Also like taxes, we may disagree with how our money is used, but if anyone could opt out of paying dues while still receiving the benefits of union representation (free rider) eventually, none of us would have representation. (Just what corporate America wants, but you have said that you are a company man) Freeloaders will always want to get rid of union dues.
I won't participate with an organization that refuses to recognize my time in service the same as you. Disparate treatment is the APA and union mantra.

I'm not a freeloader or the Company wouldn't pay me. Somehow you believe unions don't have to WORK for YOUR money. It's just like government....and look where entitlement gets them.

I don't want the APA representing me. I can do it myself. The freeloaders are Edgar James and his law firm....leaches of the entitlement society that seem to brainwash the minions to believe that they know whats best for them.

The day germane dues are found unconstitutional is soon upon us and just like deregulation, the controllers strike, 9/11, the great recession, etc....it's the pilots continued stand to stick their "collective" heads in the sand is what's breaking their bank. And I can't think of a nicer group for this to happen to.....those who stick it to others for the same kind of time they have.
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Old 04-07-2015, 12:32 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
I won't participate with an organization that refuses to recognize my time in service the same as you. Disparate treatment is the APA and union mantra.

I'm not a freeloader or the Company wouldn't pay me. Somehow you believe unions don't have to WORK for YOUR money. It's just like government....and look where entitlement gets them.

I don't want the APA representing me. I can do it myself. The freeloaders are Edgar James and his law firm....leaches of the entitlement society that seem to brainwash the minions to believe that they know whats best for them.

The day germane dues are found unconstitutional is soon upon us and just like deregulation, the controllers strike, 9/11, the great recession, etc....it's the pilots continued stand to stick their "collective" heads in the sand is what's breaking their bank. And I can't think of a nicer group for this to happen to.....those who stick it to others for the same kind of time they have.
I started out at Piedmont- I am on your side about seniority. Still, I know that an individual worker will never have a voice. Our only hope is through collective action. If you reap the benefits of the union then you have to pay union dues otherwise you are indeed a freeloader, by definition(not my opinion) . Your other choice is to find a profession that does not need/have a union.
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Old 04-07-2015, 01:03 PM
  #40  
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I noticed the article that 66 posted is from Fox noise. So to be fair and balanced I will quote from Truthout:

"Restricting unions' collection of dues and forcing them to spend money on things unrelated to effective representation of employees erodes the power of unions and employees and unbalances bargaining power because unions have no significant sources of funds other than dues.

Remember that the NLRA was designed to balance the power of corporations with collective employee power. Given the enormous resources of corporate America, a labor movement with limited resources can scarcely provide such balance. Could that be the goal?" http://www.truth-out.org/
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