R57 relay

Using the Nic would hammer the junior LAA guys. It puts west guys in a seniority range above the seats they bring to THIS merger.

eaglefly

Some of us did have "numbers" as you say and others not. Of those that did, some were on property prior to the snapshot date and others not. The key is that they wern't just seniority numbers similar to the Continental Express pilots, but were given actual class dates and spots in that class with that seniority number along with every value of that seniority had they actually been allowed to attend that class that they were withheld from.

R57 relay

All the financials should be left out of it. Some LUS guys would like to use your CHP11 and the fact that most people, including the APA, found Horton's recovery plan laughable to our advantage. Some LAA guys would like to use the pay difference prior to the merger to their advantage. The MOU and merger leveled all those fields.

eaglefly

Well, it's too late for that. It's now in play to be debated. From a historical petspective, financials were a consideration in the past in various integrations and since so was the concept of pre-merger career expectations which is tied to that and the crux of the LAA pilots committees position, it's going to be vetted.

SewerPipeDvr

In a negotiation, you don't start low and then ask for more. You start on the moon and work DOWN. What would you expect APA to do? Same with USAPA. It does give the boundaries, so the outcome will be somewhere inside that (or not, you never know with arbitration). As far as the AMR Chapter 11, not a lot of influence in this outcome. That was a strategic bankruptcy. They had billions of cash on hand. Vastly different circumstances than USAir's merger with AWA. East would have gone away, bones picked clean by Wall Street madmen and the surviving carriers. Every merger stands on its own set of facts and circumstances. It's going to be a long summer and fall. Now where is my popcorn.

R57 relay

You are right there. Just hope the panel handles it well.

SewerPipeDvr

They cannot do that. They must consider all factors. The "fix" is the weight they assign to different factors. That is why I think AMR's Chapter 11 will be different from USAir's ( to be clear, their previous Chapter 11 will not factor in this merger, only their current fiscal condition). The weight given the circumstances. AMR had about 5 or 6 billion in the bank. I think that is why your former SLI became such a disaster. The East refused to accept the weight given to their position. This being a Federal US Statute arbitration, a repeat won't be happening. It will be "it is as it is". Unless the East or West videotapes APA giving BJs to the arbitrators under the table.

eaglefly

If you read and understand the UAL/CAL integration award, you can see that there is risk in asking for the moon or reaching for the sun. Arbitrators seem to frown on proposals that demonstrate the desire for a windfall in their opinions. The CAL committee overplayed their hand and were called on it. I have yet to read the details of any of the three committee's, but some snippets from the West's proposal are on C & R. Among extremely questionable positions is their belief that pilots who flew for regionals deserve no credit on longevity at those carriers as they don't consider that acceptable "sweat equity".

In regard to their attack on Eagle/AA flows, the apparent belief that West pilots have sweat equity in legacy AA with 18 months service contributing directly to AA's pre-merger condition better then those flow-throughs from Eagle whose efforts contributing directly there as a wholly-owned carrier for 20-25 years that helped make AA what it is, is absurd. Unfortunately, on that issue the West Committee failed to do due dilligance on the specifics of that particular agreement and relationship erronously equating it as equal to the CAL/Continental Express "flow-through" which were two totally different agreements in scope and value. Clearly, the West is aiming high and arguing for the Nic is understandable, but I get the initial impression that some of the positions I'm going to read will be considered blatant attempts at obtaining a windfall for West pilots.

In doing so, that may just muddy up the effectiveness of any argument regarding the Nic and result in it being a casuality of a group that reached for the Sun and got burned. I'll reserve judgement on all three sides positions and arguments until I've read their proposals in detail though.

Saabs

With your first response on eagle flows it cleared the water. This one just made it muddier

When you are talking about longevity while at eagle, are you talking about years of service for stuff like vacation bidding ? Or is the AA side trying to argue that the longevity while at Eagle should help the eagle flows in sli?

crzipilot

So could the APA. Proposal actually unify east/west vs. aa?!? Hahaha