Why We Need To Be Talking About ALPA
10-29-2016, 11:12 PM
#142
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by dogpilot
This appears as ignorance to me. ALPA always argues that ALPA is you, the pilots in each represented group by their elected Mec and Lec reps. This will be similar individuals who have perceptively failed in your eyes, or in the eyes of others, who will be elected. I think you're naive to believe changing unions will change your contract appreciably. Insanity it would appear, cyclical repetition.
Originally Posted by aa73
As I've mentioned before, if you are coming from a regional ALPA airline, it is a completely different animal from legacy airline ALPA. Night and day different. Always been that way. That's a common mistake most regional pilots make when talking about ALPA.
ALPA will always ensure that the legacy pilot career remains at the top of the professional ladder -that's their job and it must be that way, since that's the flow of an airline pilot career.
ALPA will always ensure that the legacy pilot career remains at the top of the professional ladder -that's their job and it must be that way, since that's the flow of an airline pilot career.
Originally Posted by dogpilot
The past doesn't support your theory, as most international carriers were out paying, until recent changes in contracts, not due to negotiating power, but rather huge money making of he airlines, the domestic airlines. I think your head is heavily buried in the sand.
However, responding to your non-sequitur comment, you say the "international" airlines were outpaying the "domestic" airlines until recently. Not exactly sure which airlines you are referring to considering that the current big three here in the U.S. have been considered "international" airlines for decades - since deregulation in 1978 allowed any airline to begin flying internationally. Regardless, with that said, show any proof that the "international" airlines you speak of (I'll assume you mean foreign international carriers) ever paid more than their US counterparts.
10-30-2016, 05:32 AM
#143
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Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Originally Posted by Dharma
ALPA legacy carriers have done better than than many independent carriers over the long run. The past decade though has been difficult on all of them, and the climb out of the 9/11 hole has been long.
American pilots should consider this if you are uncertain about merging with ALPA:
1. ALPA political influence in Washington is already strong for a labor group, and would be made stronger with 15,000 more voices. The influence and presence of some independent labor groups is a distant second place.
2. Our voice within ICAO and IFALPA would improve equally so. I assume you have oneworld pilot group connections which could also help with creating closer ties within the global community of pilots. Globalization can't be ignored and any one pilot group can't really make a difference alone. Both Delta and United have regular talks with their alliance partner pilot groups.
3. American pilots would have more resources and shared experience to help them in contractual improvements. That's no guarantee of success, but it is opportunity. What you do with it is up to you.
American pilots should consider this if you are uncertain about merging with ALPA:
1. ALPA political influence in Washington is already strong for a labor group, and would be made stronger with 15,000 more voices. The influence and presence of some independent labor groups is a distant second place.
2. Our voice within ICAO and IFALPA would improve equally so. I assume you have oneworld pilot group connections which could also help with creating closer ties within the global community of pilots. Globalization can't be ignored and any one pilot group can't really make a difference alone. Both Delta and United have regular talks with their alliance partner pilot groups.
3. American pilots would have more resources and shared experience to help them in contractual improvements. That's no guarantee of success, but it is opportunity. What you do with it is up to you.
The reason our JCBA sucks so badly is not "lack of resources" or "shared experience." The reason is that APA leadership very purposely handed us an awful JCBA-which gave the company every possible advantage.
It is a mistake to think that anything about our JCBA was accidental. It was 100% the result of our corrupt APA leadership-and unless we replace them, they will do exactly the same thing with shiny new APLA signs on the doors.
10-30-2016, 06:51 PM
#144
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by jcountry
The reason our JCBA sucks so badly is not "lack of resources" or "shared experience." The reason is that APA leadership very purposely handed us an awful JCBA-which gave the company every possible advantage.
It is a mistake to think that anything about our JCBA was accidental. It was 100% the result of our corrupt APA leadership-and unless we replace them, they will do exactly the same thing with shiny new APLA signs on the doors.
It is a mistake to think that anything about our JCBA was accidental. It was 100% the result of our corrupt APA leadership-and unless we replace them, they will do exactly the same thing with shiny new APLA signs on the doors.
If there's any seriousness to save APA, start with reforms. Make it easier to recall a rep that starts morphing into a prima donna or Sky Nazi.
10-30-2016, 09:11 PM
#145
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
The union structure IS a big part of the problem. 50 years of ineptitude. 50 years. I'll say it again. 50 years! Maybe, just maybe, the problem stems from the union itself. There's been at least a complete twofold turnover in the seniority list at AA since its inception, yet the ineptitude continues.
Close the doors on the 50 year failed experiment that is APA. Re-join ALPA. Elect a new slate of leadership - Captain Reps and FO reps at each base. Elicit constructive help from fellow ALPA members at DL and UA, and exercise the true strength that 15,000 AA pilots should have during negotiations with the management of AA.
What do we have to lose?
Hey, we'll get 'em next time? Yea right! I'm not holding my breath.
Close the doors on the 50 year failed experiment that is APA. Re-join ALPA. Elect a new slate of leadership - Captain Reps and FO reps at each base. Elicit constructive help from fellow ALPA members at DL and UA, and exercise the true strength that 15,000 AA pilots should have during negotiations with the management of AA.
What do we have to lose?
Hey, we'll get 'em next time? Yea right! I'm not holding my breath.
10-31-2016, 09:53 AM
#147
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Why We Need To Be Talking About ALPA
Originally Posted by Sliceback
Great. We'll cut the number of reps from 22 all the way down to...22.
Do you guys have 11 pilot domiciles? Are all of your current reps captains? By the way, the structure just isn't the Ca/FO Rep, but also the recall process, the election of officers, the executive council, national officers, MEC committees, lec committees, etc.
Last edited by Nevjets; 10-31-2016 at 10:15 AM.
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