Advice to American applicants...
10-12-2016, 05:57 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CA
Posts: 483
Advice to American applicants...
I am not really a doom and gloom kind of guy, however, with the amount of hiring going on, I would put American a distant 5th on your list of major airlines you want to work for (the top 3 pax and Fedex/UPS). The QoL in this contract is laughable. US Airways (especially the West) language blows the doors off of this PoS that APA hoisted on 15,000 SoBs. I am not saying that as a disgruntled Airways guy trying to put a dig in at the American guys, just about every American pilot I've come in cantact with has been great, I'm saying that as a relatively junior guy that is now experiencing the full brunt of this contract we voted in. I've experienced the differences first hand, and say what you want about the sh!tty reputation that Airways had, it was, however, vastly superior compared to the American way of life, and that is embarrassing. I can't believe the 9000+ American guys put up with this crap. On long call reserve you will be utilized beyond what your schedule ever shows. Short call reserve? That's an in base deal, period. That can be decent, if sitting around a crash pad is what you consider decent. Long call reserve, something any new hire commuter dreams of, is worse than in-base short call. Your off days are not your off days, they are moved regularly and back to back trips are not uncommon. Long Call guys have their off days moved before short call guys are even called. AYFKM? Pack for 4 and gone for 6! Have a line and want to move a trip? Get used to Red/Redder, that's the mantra! Fly what you bid folks, and with PBS, unless you're in the top 30, expect the fun to continue!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
10-12-2016, 06:46 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
Come on dude!
Take a step back for a second. Take a look at the big picture. You fly airplanes half the month and make good money.
There are issues. Things could be better and will get better. But really, the fifth choice?
There are issues. Things could be better and will get better. But really, the fifth choice?
10-12-2016, 07:05 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CA
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by DarinFred
Take a step back for a second. Take a look at the big picture. You fly airplanes half the month and make good money.
There are issues. Things could be better and will get better. But really, the fifth choice?
There are issues. Things could be better and will get better. But really, the fifth choice?
American!
10-12-2016, 07:23 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: CRJ, A320
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by SilverandSore
I am not really a doom and gloom kind of guy, however, with the amount of hiring going on, I would put American a distant 5th on your list of major airlines you want to work for (the top 3 pax and Fedex/UPS). The QoL in this contract is laughable. US Airways (especially the West) language blows the doors off of this PoS that APA hoisted on 15,000 SoBs. I am not saying that as a disgruntled Airways guy trying to put a dig in at the American guys, just about every American pilot I've come in cantact with has been great, I'm saying that as a relatively junior guy that is now experiencing the full brunt of this contract we voted in. I've experienced the differences first hand, and say what you want about the sh!tty reputation that Airways had, it was, however, vastly superior compared to the American way of life, and that is embarrassing. I can't believe the 9000+ American guys put up with this crap. On long call reserve you will be utilized beyond what your schedule ever shows. Short call reserve? That's an in base deal, period. That can be decent, if sitting around a crash pad is what you consider decent. Long call reserve, something any new hire commuter dreams of, is worse than in-base short call. Your off days are not your off days, they are moved regularly and back to back trips are not uncommon. Long Call guys have their off days moved before short call guys are even called. AYFKM? Pack for 4 and gone for 6! Have a line and want to move a trip? Get used to Red/Redder, that's the mantra! Fly what you bid folks, and with PBS, unless you're in the top 30, expect the fun to continue!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
10-12-2016, 07:41 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,091
Something to consider for us US Airways refugees.
These are the yearly salaries at 76 hours of pay under the old contract before the merger.
A320_____E190
$36,000---$38,000
$52,000---$41,000
$56,000---$43,000
$66,000---$45,000
$68,000---$47,000
A320 CA
$114,000 (topped out)
Keep in mind all the crappy things that didn't exist in that contract either...the biggest IMO was lack of line guarantee.
As a LC reserve under Airways I routinely got converted to SC. I had several months in a row where I was converted for every single day I was on call.
The QOL issues need to be fixed and they will get fixed. AA has never been about work rules. Their contract has always been fairly horrible. Hopefully as more regional guys come on property we can effect change from within.
For guys who have multiple offers for jobs, unless you live in a major AA base, obviously the choice is clear but for guys with no offers this is still a good place to hang your hat.
These are the yearly salaries at 76 hours of pay under the old contract before the merger.
A320_____E190
$36,000---$38,000
$52,000---$41,000
$56,000---$43,000
$66,000---$45,000
$68,000---$47,000
A320 CA
$114,000 (topped out)
Keep in mind all the crappy things that didn't exist in that contract either...the biggest IMO was lack of line guarantee.
As a LC reserve under Airways I routinely got converted to SC. I had several months in a row where I was converted for every single day I was on call.
The QOL issues need to be fixed and they will get fixed. AA has never been about work rules. Their contract has always been fairly horrible. Hopefully as more regional guys come on property we can effect change from within.
For guys who have multiple offers for jobs, unless you live in a major AA base, obviously the choice is clear but for guys with no offers this is still a good place to hang your hat.
10-12-2016, 07:51 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 338
Originally Posted by Name User
For guys who have multiple offers for jobs, unless you live in a major AA base, obviously the choice is clear but for guys with no offers this is still a good place to hang your hat.
It's better than regional flying, but especially on RSV, not much better. I dare say a couple of the regionals have better RSV CBA language.
APA culture needs to change, and as said above, with more younger prior regional pilots here perhaps it will.
10-12-2016, 08:43 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by Name User
Something to consider for us US Airways refugees.
These are the yearly salaries at 76 hours of pay under the old contract before the merger.
A320_____E190
$36,000---$38,000
$52,000---$41,000
$56,000---$43,000
$66,000---$45,000
$68,000---$47,000
A320 CA
$114,000 (topped out)
Keep in mind all the crappy things that didn't exist in that contract either...the biggest IMO was lack of line guarantee.
As a LC reserve under Airways I routinely got converted to SC. I had several months in a row where I was converted for every single day I was on call.
The QOL issues need to be fixed and they will get fixed. AA has never been about work rules. Their contract has always been fairly horrible. Hopefully as more regional guys come on property we can effect change from within.
For guys who have multiple offers for jobs, unless you live in a major AA base, obviously the choice is clear but for guys with no offers this is still a good place to hang your hat.
These are the yearly salaries at 76 hours of pay under the old contract before the merger.
A320_____E190
$36,000---$38,000
$52,000---$41,000
$56,000---$43,000
$66,000---$45,000
$68,000---$47,000
A320 CA
$114,000 (topped out)
Keep in mind all the crappy things that didn't exist in that contract either...the biggest IMO was lack of line guarantee.
As a LC reserve under Airways I routinely got converted to SC. I had several months in a row where I was converted for every single day I was on call.
The QOL issues need to be fixed and they will get fixed. AA has never been about work rules. Their contract has always been fairly horrible. Hopefully as more regional guys come on property we can effect change from within.
For guys who have multiple offers for jobs, unless you live in a major AA base, obviously the choice is clear but for guys with no offers this is still a good place to hang your hat.
Whether you agree or not, the fact is that the world's largest airline is not (yet) the greatest to work for. Get rid of guys that want to spend $3600 celebrating a turd, telling you that it has always been that way (since CR Smith) and that if it wasn't invented here, it can't be any good.
10-12-2016, 08:47 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,091
Originally Posted by Arado 234
I agree, but a lot of LAA guys think that switching to ALPA will fix the problem. I have said and still say that joining ALPA is a mistake. Clean house, replace old timers with (non-military) RJ guys.
Whether you agree or not, the fact is that the world's largest airline is not (yet) the greatest to work for. Get rid of guys that want to spend $3600 celebrating a turd, telling you that it has always been that way (since CR Smith) and that if it wasn't invented here, it can't be any good.
Whether you agree or not, the fact is that the world's largest airline is not (yet) the greatest to work for. Get rid of guys that want to spend $3600 celebrating a turd, telling you that it has always been that way (since CR Smith) and that if it wasn't invented here, it can't be any good.
Keep in mind, my wife has worked for small companies and large ones, and almost exclusively the better companies to work for are the smaller ones. Personally I doubt AA will ever be the "best" airline to work for (what does that even mean, anyway?). I just want career security, management that actually knows what they are doing, and reasonable pay and QOL. Anything more than that I can do on the side.
Unions tend to get really greedy and lazy and kill the goose that is laying the golden egg. We have a lot of competition coming online in the next 10 years.
10-12-2016, 09:02 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by Name User
I agree ALPA won't fix our internal issues.
Keep in mind, my wife has worked for small companies and large ones, and almost exclusively the better companies to work for are the smaller ones. Personally I doubt AA will ever be the "best" airline to work for (what does that even mean, anyway?). I just want career security, management that actually knows what they are doing, and reasonable pay and QOL. Anything more than that I can do on the side.
Unions tend to get really greedy and lazy and kill the goose that is laying the golden egg. We have a lot of competition coming online in the next 10 years.
Keep in mind, my wife has worked for small companies and large ones, and almost exclusively the better companies to work for are the smaller ones. Personally I doubt AA will ever be the "best" airline to work for (what does that even mean, anyway?). I just want career security, management that actually knows what they are doing, and reasonable pay and QOL. Anything more than that I can do on the side.
Unions tend to get really greedy and lazy and kill the goose that is laying the golden egg. We have a lot of competition coming online in the next 10 years.
10-12-2016, 09:12 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 569
I will second the opinions of those above looking for incoming regional guys to get involved in the union. A word of caution...know who you are giving the keys to. A former regional guy with MEC level experience shouldn't make that person a good choice. Eagle had several undesirables at high levels in our union whom would not be good in a union leadership position.
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