Should you come to AA?
11-25-2016, 05:45 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 233
Corrections/changes embedded for folks looking at AA
The above paragraph, senority is the same; pay is not. There is a 2-3 month lag for LAA new hires compared to LUS. It is messed up. Don't think it will be fixed. Also, I think LUS gets 16% year one, also messed up LAA doesn't.
So I don't think work rules are that far off, even witb a post BK contract. I don't know DALs history, is this there first post BK contract? Pay is lagging, but same as before.
Originally Posted by crewdawg
Reserve
-Min 12 days off (usually 13-15). -- Same min, I have had 18 last month and 19 off this month since holding long call.
-Can't be used day 1 until 1000...can be as late as 1200 with a commute clause. -- For long call it is always 1200. Short call based on your RAP.
-All reserve is long call unless converted to short call (usually 3ish a month). -- Since holding long call I haven't been converted (I had a month of long call when teetering back and forth when I had 2 or 3 days converted).
-3-4 day reserve blocks are my standard...some months I put them all straight (requiring a min of 2 of my reserve days off for rest). -- About the same for me.
-I can put a 1 day block of reserve on the 1st or last day of the month (read...low likelihood of being called). -- did that next month for the same reason.
-Rolling thunder can be EXTREMELY lucrative. If you've never heard of it, essentially you make way over guarantee and sit little to no days of reserve.
-Reserve is pretty nice and can be very senior sometimes. -- for the number of days I work versus the pay I think I might bid reserve as long as I am at AA.
-Released at noon on the last day of a reserve block. -- released at 1000 on long call and +6 hours for short call.
Pay
-I made way more year 2 at DAL on the 737, than I would have on the 75/76 at AAL.
-Our 3 days are worth 15.45 minimum...at AAL I flew a 3 day worth 9-10 hours. -. Yes this sucks, hopefully it will change.
-Overtime is paid at 200%...with plenty to go around. - 150%
-Get paid when the company buys my trip for OE...many guys pick up trips over the original trips footprint and get paid 2x or 3x if it''s a greenslip. My buddy is pretty senior in his seat and is averaging 120ish hours/month, with very few days worked.
Commuting
-Once I reserve the jumpsuit its mine...this is FAR superior to AALs JS policy. At AAL I had a dude show up 15 min prior and kick me off the last JS out of town that night. I was trying to get home and he was going to a bachelor party... -- no longer like this, it is 7 days out and first come first serve (I think it is actually 8 days). Only a fed of an A1 can bump.
-Commuting to/from work gets first shot at the JS (window to schedule opens a few days prior to everyone else).
-Unable to commute is pretty nice...can't remember what AAL had. -- current commute clause is one flight, I think it was two in the past.
-I can use a commute clause to not be used until noon on day 1 off a reserve block. -. AA can't be used until noon day one unless you volunteer to go early.
Schedule
-Average 16-19 days off on a NB. -- this is what I am doing on reserve, I think line holders are 15-16
-Tons of resources to drop, swap and trade trips.
-Was able to hold a line month 2 on the line.
-Never held a line at AAL so I can't really compare them.
Not necessarily work rules but another thing that isn't right is the DOH stuff. Recently talked with a few of my classmates and amazed at what's going down. Our class was one of the first to have USAir hired guys in INDOC. Their seniority started day 1 of indoc...ours started 2-3 months later. After the SLI, that stayed the same. So now there are guys who started indoc on the same day (as one class, post SOC), but the AAL guys don't jump to the next years pay until 2-3 months after the USAir guys. A few of my buddies brought it up to APA and they basically told them to pound sand...we aren't going to fight this. That is extremely screwed up and if I were there, I would explore a DFR suit against APA.
-Min 12 days off (usually 13-15). -- Same min, I have had 18 last month and 19 off this month since holding long call.
-Can't be used day 1 until 1000...can be as late as 1200 with a commute clause. -- For long call it is always 1200. Short call based on your RAP.
-All reserve is long call unless converted to short call (usually 3ish a month). -- Since holding long call I haven't been converted (I had a month of long call when teetering back and forth when I had 2 or 3 days converted).
-3-4 day reserve blocks are my standard...some months I put them all straight (requiring a min of 2 of my reserve days off for rest). -- About the same for me.
-I can put a 1 day block of reserve on the 1st or last day of the month (read...low likelihood of being called). -- did that next month for the same reason.
-Rolling thunder can be EXTREMELY lucrative. If you've never heard of it, essentially you make way over guarantee and sit little to no days of reserve.
-Reserve is pretty nice and can be very senior sometimes. -- for the number of days I work versus the pay I think I might bid reserve as long as I am at AA.
-Released at noon on the last day of a reserve block. -- released at 1000 on long call and +6 hours for short call.
Pay
-I made way more year 2 at DAL on the 737, than I would have on the 75/76 at AAL.
-Our 3 days are worth 15.45 minimum...at AAL I flew a 3 day worth 9-10 hours. -. Yes this sucks, hopefully it will change.
-Overtime is paid at 200%...with plenty to go around. - 150%
-Get paid when the company buys my trip for OE...many guys pick up trips over the original trips footprint and get paid 2x or 3x if it''s a greenslip. My buddy is pretty senior in his seat and is averaging 120ish hours/month, with very few days worked.
Commuting
-Once I reserve the jumpsuit its mine...this is FAR superior to AALs JS policy. At AAL I had a dude show up 15 min prior and kick me off the last JS out of town that night. I was trying to get home and he was going to a bachelor party... -- no longer like this, it is 7 days out and first come first serve (I think it is actually 8 days). Only a fed of an A1 can bump.
-Commuting to/from work gets first shot at the JS (window to schedule opens a few days prior to everyone else).
-Unable to commute is pretty nice...can't remember what AAL had. -- current commute clause is one flight, I think it was two in the past.
-I can use a commute clause to not be used until noon on day 1 off a reserve block. -. AA can't be used until noon day one unless you volunteer to go early.
Schedule
-Average 16-19 days off on a NB. -- this is what I am doing on reserve, I think line holders are 15-16
-Tons of resources to drop, swap and trade trips.
-Was able to hold a line month 2 on the line.
-Never held a line at AAL so I can't really compare them.
Not necessarily work rules but another thing that isn't right is the DOH stuff. Recently talked with a few of my classmates and amazed at what's going down. Our class was one of the first to have USAir hired guys in INDOC. Their seniority started day 1 of indoc...ours started 2-3 months later. After the SLI, that stayed the same. So now there are guys who started indoc on the same day (as one class, post SOC), but the AAL guys don't jump to the next years pay until 2-3 months after the USAir guys. A few of my buddies brought it up to APA and they basically told them to pound sand...we aren't going to fight this. That is extremely screwed up and if I were there, I would explore a DFR suit against APA.
So I don't think work rules are that far off, even witb a post BK contract. I don't know DALs history, is this there first post BK contract? Pay is lagging, but same as before.
11-25-2016, 06:30 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by TOGAANG
You can reserve it 7 days out but someone senior can bump you up until 5 days out. Once inside of 5 days it is yours and no one senior can take it. It's great if you are junior but bad if you are senior. Just plan ahead and reserve it early and give yourself at least two commutes to get there.
11-25-2016, 07:29 PM
#24
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,549
Originally Posted by andrewtac
Corrections/changes embedded for folks looking at AA
Also, important to note my days off on reserve were the min days required off. Some months the contractual minimum is 12 days, other months it's 15 days. How many days I didn't work is something totally different.
11-25-2016, 07:35 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,205
Originally Posted by TOGAANG
You can reserve it 7 days out but someone senior can bump you up until 5 days out. Once inside of 5 days it is yours and no one senior can take it. It's great if you are junior but bad if you are senior. Just plan ahead and reserve it early and give yourself at least two commutes to get there.
Supposed to change to a hybrid model at some point in the future. That will have a couple of days seniority based before reverting to FCFS.
11-25-2016, 08:46 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
Jumpseat
Another gem in the AA contract...Deadheaders can bump Jumpseaters off the Jumpseat. So, let's say the company is deadheading you back home at the end of a sequence. It's only positive space if they have seats left in the inventory at the time of booking. Otherwise, that pilot flies revenue standby with priority for the Jumpseat.
11-25-2016, 09:36 PM
#27
Child of the Magenta
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: 737
Posts: 387
I'd never knock someone out of the 1W if I was an A3 back to base. Maybe there are a few out there that would, but I'd guess the vast majority wouldn't do that. I know that you don't always have ample heads up for dead heads, but check in for them 24 hours in advance and it'll give you a seat and the regular gate agents can't pull it from you, even if the flight is oversold.
11-25-2016, 10:56 PM
#28
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by LuckyNow
I'd never knock someone out of the 1W if I was an A3 back to base. Maybe there are a few out there that would, but I'd guess the vast majority wouldn't do that. I know that you don't always have ample heads up for dead heads, but check in for them 24 hours in advance and it'll give you a seat and the regular gate agents can't pull it from you, even if the flight is oversold.
The bottom line is DH travel should ALWAYS be A1. This is one of many areas that the AA contract severely lags the other major airlines. My squadron buddies who fly for UA and DL always laugh when I explain the above scenario. Sadly, it is laughable that APA puts up with this crap now that load factors are astronomical compared to what they've historically been.
11-25-2016, 11:39 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 295
Despite the downsides at American, it's still one of the best pilot jobs out there globally...Had I stayed at American Eagle Airlines ( June 2000 hire, hired at age 22..), I would have flowed to American in 2016 ( age 38 with a long career ahead) . Oh how I wish I was flying for American.
11-26-2016, 04:04 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by LessThan24
As an A3 I've bumped guys (as have my CAs) waiting for the JS more than once.
