Time from New Hire to the Wide-body's
How long would it take at AA approximately to go from new hire to flying the 767, 777 or 787? What is the quickest way to get there or what do experienced airline captains recommend to do?
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Volunteer to plan the Christmas party, be the exec, fly as little as possible, volunteer for a 365, be the POC for woman's history month..
Oh wait that's the Air Force, disregard! A buddy of mine could bid 76s in MIA 7 months after INDOC FWIW |
They were hiring right into MIA 75/76 for a while a couple years ago. It goes in cycles. But I'd say you can hold MIA 75/76 within 6 months to 1 year from new hire. LGA 75/76 goes a little more senior but still within a couple years. DFW, ORD, LAX are all a lot more senior and it would take a few years. But keep in mind, with the 75/76 draw down this is all subject to change.
This is just for 75/76 (group 3.) 777/787 (group 4 flying) is a whole different animal and takes much longer, several years. |
The 777/787 are a pretty long wait right now, in fact, most (not all) of the junior FOs on those fleets could hold narrow body CA in one place or another, and some of the senior FOs on widebody fleets could also hold CA on those same fleets . The most junior 777 FO that I'm seeing is just below 11,000 in the company, so 4000ish numbers from the bottom. That will obviously start to trend down as retirements start to increase. The 787 is more senior than the 777.
The 767 is much more junior, in MIA we sent new hires into it for a good chunk of 2014. It's still fairly junior, but not new hire junior these days, some mid-2015 hires are on it in MIA and some mid-late 2014 hires in PHL. |
The 330 in CLT seems to be every bit as senior as the 777 with the junior man pushing 11,000, and in PHL it's just below 12,000.
The upside of the long haul widebody fleets being pretty senior is that it pushes group 2 CA slots more junior. |
Makes you wonder if American Paid on Years of Service like Lufthansa and a few others. Would senior guys would job off of them? Time Zones changes kick my butt. You folks have at it.
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We park 9 767s and 17 757s this year. It might take a while to get on the 767. 777 goes to about 10,600. Based off of projected retirements a new hire would get there in a little over 6 years. We have more 787s coming and the A350 as well. We have 112 group 4 planes right now and that goes up to 125 this year, 126 in 2018, 131 in 2019, 136 in 2020, 141 in 2021, 146 in 2022. I think it's overly optimistic to assume they will all come as scheduled. They've already deferred deliveries because they aren't ready for more large airplanes right now.
PBS is coming to the bigger bases and as people realize how bad it is for those on the bottom and how good it is for those on top, I think more people will choose to stay senior on smaller planes, making those junior group 4 FO spots go more junior. All things considered, I'd guess someone hired now could get group 4 in 5-6 years. |
Originally Posted by LuckyNow
(Post 2293114)
The 330 in CLT seems to be every bit as senior as the 777 with the junior man pushing 11,000, and in PHL it's just below 12,000.
The upside of the long haul widebody fleets being pretty senior is that it pushes group 2 CA slots more junior. |
If we had LOS for pay, I think those WB jobs would go very junior. Why would anyone beat the crap out of their body for the same pay as just flying easy domestic NB stuff?
Sure it's 9 on/21 off but ya gotta remember, the first couple of days off are spent just recuperating and getting back on your time zone sleep schedule. I'm with ya, I tried intl for 4 years and it absolutely trashed me. Once I switched back to NB domestic I was never even remotely as tired as I was doing the Europe/SA stuff. Intl should really should be done at a younger age. Once you hit your 40s you should ideally start ratcheting down the long haul flying to where you're only flying easy domestic turns your last few years prior to retirement. |
Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
(Post 2293181)
The 330 numbers are slightly skewed. Prior to the merger, we had fairly new guys able to bid onto the 330 (I'm a Jan 2013 hire and would have been 4 from the bottom on it). They got bumped off a couple of bid cycles later. They now have reinstatement rights to it.
Yep and the guys who got bumped to 190 captain have been getting group 4 fo pay for over 2 years now. I'm still kicking myself for not bidding it back then. Best deal out. And those guys won't be able to hold G4 fo again for a while so they will be keeping the pay until they can. |
Get comfortable and wait a year.
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Some of these things are nearly impossible to predict.
Most junior guy on 767 MIA is 14049. Probably one that got it as a new hire a couple years ago. Many of those people bid off of it to narrowbody for a slightly better life or no commute ect. Like said above it's shrinking so probably won't see any openings for a while. |
I held the 75/76 as a New Hire in MIA, but got displaced to JFK.....they go from threatening displacements to posting vacancies....and anything that's correct now won't be in 6 months....luck of the draw really.
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Yea 76 is hard to predict. First they're parking a bunch, then they aren't, then they are. Prob only a good deal if you're local bc you will be perma-junior.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The A350 sim is up and running correct? I mean sitting idle. Are we getting another?
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Per DFW crew news a few weeks ago:
JFK/PHL/MIA will be the only 75/76 bases in the future. |
Originally Posted by BOGSAT
(Post 2294078)
The A350 sim is up and running correct? I mean sitting idle. Are we getting another?
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I thought we were selling our A350's to Delta.
I like the Airbus product. I would've really liked to see a consistent fleet. A319/20/21 and A330/A350. Instead we have all the expense of this hodgepodge of a fleet, pretty ridiculous. |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2294125)
I thought we were selling our A350's to Delta.
I like the Airbus product. I would've really liked to see a consistent fleet. A319/20/21 and A330/A350. Instead we have all the expense of this hodgepodge of a fleet, pretty ridiculous. Works for delta. Too bad we don't have their management. |
Originally Posted by mainlineAF
(Post 2294150)
Works for delta. Too bad we don't have their management.
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Originally Posted by aa73
(Post 2293213)
If we had LOS for pay, I think those WB jobs would go very junior. Why would anyone beat the crap out of their body for the same pay as just flying easy domestic NB stuff?
Sure it's 9 on/21 off but ya gotta remember, the first couple of days off are spent just recuperating and getting back on your time zone sleep schedule. I'm with ya, I tried intl for 4 years and it absolutely trashed me. Once I switched back to NB domestic I was never even remotely as tired as I was doing the Europe/SA stuff. Intl should really should be done at a younger age. Once you hit your 40s you should ideally start ratcheting down the long haul flying to where you're only flying easy domestic turns your last few years prior to retirement. |
what the average days off a month for international wide body line holders?
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Originally Posted by flysooner9
(Post 2294323)
what the average days off a month for international wide body line holders?
Well the Asia stuff pays enough to where some guys can do 3 3 days a month I think. Here's a screenshot of some of the originating pairings for DFW 787 FO in February. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...58ac80cb3d.jpg So it really depends if you're doing Asia, Europe or SA. Also depends what base you're flying out of. For ex PHL 330 intl doesn't have nearly the high time trips. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6ca6303ad.jpg When PBS comes to all the bases it will mix things up as well. |
Originally Posted by Vma214
(Post 2294252)
I am just the opposite. Been flying mostly across the pond for the last 5 years. Did a couple 3 day Caribbean trips in December. I was absolutely exhausted flying 2 and 3 legs a day, most of it in and out of MIA. YOU CAN HAVE IT! I'll take 5 and 6 time zone 1 leg days, with a 2 hour snooze, any day.
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Do they have 7-10 day trips?
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Originally Posted by Gilligan13
(Post 2295479)
Do they have 7-10 day trips?
No. Not that I know of. Maybe some 5 or 6 day trips. |
Is most WB international flying just out and backs? Any round robin/hub-and-spoke type of long trips?
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Originally Posted by C130driver
(Post 2295497)
Is most WB international flying just out and backs? Any round robin/hub-and-spoke type of long trips?
Yea mostly out and back. Only multi leg stuff is ORD-LHR-RDU-LHR-ORD and maybe a few other like it. |
The fact that wide-bodies is apostrophed in this title really bugs me, and I went to a state university.
Through these doors walk the world's most grammatically correct pilots. Okay, fine, maybe I had a few drinks during the super bowl. |
Originally Posted by LuckyNow
(Post 2295673)
The fact that wide-bodies is apostrophed in this title really bugs me, and I went to a state university.
Through these doors walk the world's most grammatically correct pilots. Okay, fine, maybe I had a few drinks during the super bowl. |
Things will be moving fast here soon. I predict Group 4 anywhere will be down to 12,000 by the fall. Lots of movement finally at AA.
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Originally Posted by LIOG41
(Post 2295737)
Things will be moving fast here soon. I predict Group 4 anywhere will be down to 12,000 by the fall. Lots of movement finally at AA.
H8 |
I predict that a recession and NAI will dampen this. We have not had a decade in aviation since dereg that have not put us back a few years. I hope not, but history has a way of repeating itself.
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I hate to bring up an old topic, but can someone please repost the combined retirement numbers please?
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Originally Posted by Arado 234
(Post 2296243)
I hate to bring up an old topic, but can someone please repost the combined retirement numbers please?
Personal - Projected Future Retirements - Next 20 Years Projected Retirements for 2017 - 2037 (Projections based on active pilots turning 65 in the given year.) Roster Data Updated on: 2/5/2017 Year Total 2/6/2017 - 12/31/2017 409 01/01/2018 - 12/31/2018 545 01/01/2019 - 12/31/2019 656 01/01/2020 - 12/31/2020 782 01/01/2021 - 12/31/2021 853 01/01/2022 - 12/31/2022 874 01/01/2023 - 12/31/2023 960 01/01/2024 - 12/31/2024 932 01/01/2025 - 12/31/2025 956 01/01/2026 - 12/31/2026 903 01/01/2027 - 12/31/2027 771 01/01/2028 - 12/31/2028 668 01/01/2029 - 12/31/2029 634 01/01/2030 - 12/31/2030 549 01/01/2031 - 12/31/2031 568 01/01/2032 - 12/31/2032 493 01/01/2033 - 12/31/2033 465 01/01/2034 - 12/31/2034 390 01/01/2035 - 12/31/2035 324 01/01/2036 - 12/31/2036 248 01/01/2037 - 12/31/2037 195 This chart lives at Aapilots, click on "profile" in the upper right hand Under helpful links click on "projected future retirements" For your personal seniority number as of Dec 31st every year until retirement click on "seniority calculator" under helpful links. |
Originally Posted by aa73
(Post 2293213)
If we had LOS for pay, I think those WB jobs would go very junior. Why would anyone beat the crap out of their body for the same pay as just flying easy domestic NB stuff?
Sure it's 9 on/21 off but ya gotta remember, the first couple of days off are spent just recuperating and getting back on your time zone sleep schedule. I'm with ya, I tried intl for 4 years and it absolutely trashed me. Once I switched back to NB domestic I was never even remotely as tired as I was doing the Europe/SA stuff. Intl should really should be done at a younger age. Once you hit your 40s you should ideally start ratcheting down the long haul flying to where you're only flying easy domestic turns your last few years prior to retirement. |
Originally Posted by aa73
(Post 2293213)
If we had LOS for pay, I think those WB jobs would go very junior. Why would anyone beat the crap out of their body for the same pay as just flying easy domestic NB stuff?
Sure it's 9 on/21 off but ya gotta remember, the first couple of days off are spent just recuperating and getting back on your time zone sleep schedule. I'm with ya, I tried intl for 4 years and it absolutely trashed me. Once I switched back to NB domestic I was never even remotely as tired as I was doing the Europe/SA stuff. Intl should really should be done at a younger age. Once you hit your 40s you should ideally start ratcheting down the long haul flying to where you're only flying easy domestic turns your last few years prior to retirement. I believe BA has LOS pay. That is why you see so many young captains on the 777's that come to the US. The senior pilots are flying daytime turns out of LHR on the 320, and are home every night. |
Originally Posted by teddyballgame
(Post 2296516)
I believe BA has LOS pay.
That is why you see so many young captains on the 777's that come to the US. The senior pilots are flying daytime turns out of LHR on the 320, and are home every night. |
Dumb question. What is LOS flying?
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Originally Posted by TOGAANG
(Post 2296584)
Dumb question. What is LOS flying?
Sort of like the way the military does it. Consequently, pilots bid the type of flying / schedule they most enjoy without worry of leaving pay behind due to the size of their aircraft. |
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