Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




cobalt650
02-16-2017, 02:49 PM
Corporate job at 130-150k, vs legacy airline, starting at age 50. Ready--------go!


Otterbox
02-16-2017, 02:57 PM
Do you have a job offer?

Everyone's situation is different. If you're not planning on working past 65, a legacy is a no brainer from a pure $ standpoint. But there are a lot more variables that are unique for each person.

galaxy flyer
02-16-2017, 04:13 PM
What's your resume look like, first. Then, do you have a corporate offer? If not, what are your career goals? What about logistics, quality of life situation? If it's a hometown corporate gig, you know the people, no move, family happy in town--could be a no brainer. If not, loads to discuss.


GF


Otters
02-17-2017, 07:55 AM
Do you have a job offer?

Everyone's situation is different. If you're not planning on working past 65, a legacy is a no brainer from a pure $ standpoint. But there are a lot more variables that are unique for each person.

Pure dollar standpoint? Absolutely not true. So many factors to consider. While all airlines publish their exact dollar amount, the amount of pay on reserve to line holder while factoring in quality of life can be quite large. Factor in several years to build up that dollar amount while being over age 50, ones time ends up being "potentially" short.

The corporate world is so varied in pay. Factor in stock options, restricted stock options and bonuses and you have a wide birth of opinions and answers.

I have done both the airlines and corporate in excess of ten years each. I had only one corporate job to use as a comparison. Other departments and the secrecy surrounding pay and benefits makes this a difficult subject to really define what is best. I also fit the over age 50 scenario being discussed. I have my own personal opinion on this but it only works with my specific life issues.

As you eluded to, if your going beyond age 65, that takes a completely different turn.

DA2EASYB
02-20-2017, 12:36 PM
Looking at these same options. The devil you know vs. the one you don't.

MarineFAC
02-22-2017, 09:23 AM
Corporate job at 130-150k, vs legacy airline, starting at age 50. Ready--------go!

It's a risk vs security question. I was in the same place a 15 months ago; go fly a BBJ and Challenger in the Pacific Northwest or take the offer from major. With two kids to get through college I took job at a major.

My decision was somewhat validated by a guy in my new hire class. He was a retired USAF O-5 that finished his career flying G4/5's and was hired to be the chief pilot for a major retailer that operated the same equipment. Everything was fine until a new COO showed up and wanted his guy to be the chief pilot.

I am sure the flying at a corporate department/private owner is far more interesting/dynamic, but it is hard to beat the security of strong union and well run company. Best of luck to you.

cobalt650
02-24-2017, 07:59 AM
It's a risk vs security question. I was in the same place a 15 months ago; go fly a BBJ and Challenger in the Pacific Northwest or take the offer from major. With two kids to get through college I took job at a major.

My decision was somewhat validated by a guy in my new hire class. He was a retired USAF O-5 that finished his career flying G4/5's and was hired to be the chief pilot for a major retailer that operated the same equipment. Everything was fine until a new COO showed up and wanted his guy to be the chief pilot.

I am sure the flying at a corporate department/private owner is far more interesting/dynamic, but it is hard to beat the security of strong union and well run company. Best of luck to you.

Great story to share, thank you. I'm fortunate to have a spot at a Major and an offer from a strong corporate, but both (NAI or new COO/CEO influence) are far from bulletproof. Guess I'm looking at it under the assumption that both would survive for 10-12 years.

Aviationluver
02-24-2017, 05:07 PM
I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm getting back into aviation after some years off. I'm going corporate. I've done the regionals once and once was more than enough for me.

Falcon900pilot
02-25-2017, 06:47 AM
Corporate job at 130-150k, vs legacy airline, starting at age 50. Ready--------go!

What's your time? How does it break down? I've found corporate a lot more satisfying than flying airline. The guys here who are saying how stable and predictable airline flying is, are correct, but I found that kind of "flying" (which you really don't do much of -- more like systems management) excruciatingly boring.

Kind of like driving a bus imho. Just going from airport to airport and hotel to hotel. Repeat times (number of days on) rinse and repeat. Depending on the airframe you are on (small cabin / large cabin), corporate flying can be humdrum or pretty kick ass - all depends. Going to Conroe, TX is a whole lot different than going to Innsbruck, Austria...

I instruct full time and contact part-time. Pays the bills quite nicely and I pick and choose my trips when I get the itch to get out and fly.

Perfect for me (for now) and when that brass ring job rolls around, maybe I'll look at doing that. I like the flexibility I have for right now. Corporate isn't for everyone, it can be a pain in the ass depending on the department, but it can also be an extremely rewarding and lucrative job at the same time. When comes to the pure flying aspect of it, corporate wins hands down on the jet I fly (wide body/ international). Domestic on a Lear 35 may not be as fun.

Lot of variables there my friend...

Hope that helps.

galaxy flyer
02-25-2017, 07:01 AM
Every corporate trip can be memorable, while none of my airline ones were. But, as a career, the airlines do offer more money for the boredom.

GF

Falcon900pilot
02-25-2017, 07:54 AM
Every corporate trip can be memorable, while none of my airline ones were. But, as a career, the airlines do offer more money for the boredom.

GF

If you're talking SWA or United, I'd agree (for the most part - there are always exceptions). 91 departments are definitely having to step up their game on pay that is for sure.

Duesenflieger
02-25-2017, 08:15 AM
I would have to agree with GalaxyFlyer's sentiment. I did part 135 charter in a Falcon and Lear for a year before coming to a regional. Corporate and part 135 charter flying is much more memorable than airline stuff. Airline routes are the same day in and out. I find myself dreaming of the random cross country destinations that we did in part 135 (KBUR - KCOS- KSEA - PANC in a single day) on my 45 minute airline trips of O'Hare to Green Bay, WI, twice per day. Ultimately I left because I wasn't flying enough at that part 135 gig. The pay was ridiculously low for part 135 as well.

galaxy flyer
02-25-2017, 03:03 PM
Some memories--landing off SQ to meet a pilot I never saw before to fly from Hanoi to Saigon, two cities I never saw before. Finding him of the Arabic background learned to fly in the US, not far from a former fiancée. Or, departing on a max range flight from Petropavolovsk to Tahiti and Bora Bora. Never boring and I'm a tediophobe.

GF

PhotoFlyer
03-15-2017, 10:33 PM
im in a similar boat. Almost 50, own a business with 2 kids, one is in college. Tempted to start with a regional but know I have a seniority ladder to climb before I can replace my business income. Long term pay, benefits, QOL sound good but I also wonder if I'm better off trying to find a local corporate gig. Maybe I can ease into it while still running my business part time.

galaxy flyer
03-16-2017, 06:18 AM
50, one in college and one ready and you're thinking if becoming a pilot NOW?

GF

MarineFAC
03-17-2017, 06:48 AM
Great story to share, thank you. I'm fortunate to have a spot at a Major and an offer from a strong corporate, but both (NAI or new COO/CEO influence) are far from bulletproof. Guess I'm looking at it under the assumption that both would survive for 10-12 years.

Couple of more points for flying for a major airline/cargo company - when I am off, I am off! If my phone goes off with a call or a text asking me to come in and fly, it's for 1.5 or 2 times my normal pay rate. As for vacation (do corp guys get vacation?), I just turned two weeks of vacation into 4 weeks off with pay. How about retirement? My company will contribute 15% of annual earnings to a my 401(k) - I don't have to put a dime of my own money to get that either. How about profit sharing? Any of you corp. guys get profit sharing? This year was just under 20%. I work 18 days a month (14-15 hard scheduled days, pick up 2-4 days a month of overtime flying) clear 170K/yr in direct compensation and receive an additional 35% in retirement account contributions ($56K). And pay goes up twice a year - on my employment anniversary and the contract amendable date. Any of you corp pilots making that kind of cash? Maybe DJT's personal pilot, but I doubt anyone else out there is making this kind of money.

Flying for a major isn't as exciting as landing a G650 or BBJ in Innsbruck, but I will use my travel bennies and spend $200 for a business class seat to Vienna, get a cut rate rental BMW 750 and meet you there. Oh you can't have a beer at the bar because the boss might want to travel tomorrow? I'll drink it for you.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but at the end of the day a pilot at one of the 4 majors or FedEx/UPS is going to make a lot more $$$, have a better QOL and job protection. I miss a show time due to a flat tire/car trouble, accident or just plain over slept it's a talking to by the chief pilot and letter in my file and I still get paid for that trip. Loud party in the hotel room next door? Air conditioner didn't work? No hot water? A call to crew scheduling telling them you too tired/fatigued to fly, relieved from flying and still get paid. Try calling sick/tired as a Corp pilot and you are probably looking for a new job.

As for NAI or bad executive officer bringing down one of the majors - we're too big to fail. The demand for air travel these days is too great to not make money at it. It's almost as easy as selling whiskey and sex..almost.

One last thing - I don't have to put up with the boss's trophy wife and snotty kids.:cool:

galaxy flyer
03-17-2017, 07:19 AM
MarineFAC,

How much corporate experience do you have? I agree that, by and large, the Big 3, WN, FDX, and UPS pay better and have better QOL most of the time. That said, the top corporate jobs ain't chopped liver. 200-225k plus 10%-20% bonus and 401k is pretty standard. I started collecting a DB retirement that exceeds my civil service one for working only 2/3rds as long. There are good ones and because they frequently are easier to break into and pay better to start, preferred for older pilots. I personally know 5 ex-major pilots (US, UA, and DL) who turned down recall. When you making 275k plus bomus and flying less than 100 days a year, it's a tough choice

GF

MarineFAC
03-17-2017, 07:54 AM
MarineFAC,

How much corporate experience do you have? I agree that, by and large, the Big 3, WN, FDX, and UPS pay better and have better QOL most of the time. That said, the top corporate jobs ain't chopped liver. 200-225k plus 10%-20% bonus and 401k is pretty standard. I started collecting a DB retirement that exceeds my civil service one for working only 2/3rds as long. There are good ones and because they frequently are easier to break into and pay better to start, preferred for older pilots. I personally know 5 ex-major pilots (US, UA, and DL) who turned down recall. When you making 275k plus bomus and flying less than 100 days a year, it's a tough choice

GF

There are some great paying corp flying jobs to be had, but they are the exception and come after years spent toiling away in small cabin jet/turbo prop aircraft. The pay and bennies you describe above are attainable for a 5 yr FO, willing work for it, at the any of the carriers you named as well. And for every former major carrier pilot that turned down recall, I can name three former corp guys at my carrier. If you are in this business for the long haul, flying for a major airline is going to be far more financially stable and beneficial for the average guy/gal.

As I said previously, corporate flying is far more interesting. But the 'fun factor' comes at the price of stability. CA's at my carrier are pulling down a lot more than 275/yr and they aren't on the road all that much more than 100 days.....and we don't sling bags, worry about rental cars or have minor heart attacks when we miss a call from dispatch/crew scheduling.

I spent just under a yr as a KA 350/Lear 60 pilot for a private owner...he was great. If he was going fishing, I got to go too. Drinking good scotch at the bar? Me too. The wife and college age daughter on the other hand.....I know why he went fishing...a lot.

ZapBrannigan
03-17-2017, 01:22 PM
Jeez. When an airline pilot starts touting his airline's 'stability' I think "now here is a guy who wasn't flying for the airlines on 9/11. I went corporate after being furloughed post 9/11. Came back to 121 eight years later but not for 'stability' (makes me giggle) rather because I know the rules to the game. Having a CBA that codifies what scheduling is/is not allowed to do, and the order which must be followed in the event of another Furlough is priceless/


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got2fly
03-17-2017, 09:55 PM
I get plenty of variety in the airline business. AKL, SYD, PER, MEL, BKK, HAN, PEK, PVG, ICN, NRT, MNL, HKT, KUL, CGK, DEL, BOM, DPS, CMB, JNB, CPT, LGG, LUX, LHR, FRA, AMS, BRU, MEX, LAX, MIA, EZE, GRU, JFK, ATL, IAH, IAD, DFW all in the last year. But the downside of the long haul world is not enough hand flying and landings. I really do miss that part. I also miss the more laid back relaxed atmosphere in the cockpit we had in the USA. Got to admit, I often dream of a bizjet job. The grass is always greener.

Mink
03-17-2017, 10:35 PM
I don't mean to sound snarky



You didn't.

Toolish? Yeah.

But not snarky

pokey9554
03-17-2017, 11:08 PM
You didn't.

Toolish? Yeah.

But not snarky

I disagree. His/her post was riddled with situations that seem common in corporate aviation.

RI830
03-18-2017, 06:42 AM
The grass is greener where you water it!!!

galaxy flyer
03-18-2017, 07:58 AM
I never doubted that legacy jobs offered better pay and benefits, with the revenue stream and the strength of unions it couldn't be otherwise. Just about every other flying job will be ancillary to the primary focus of the business.

There are 12,000 bizjets active in the US meaning somewhere north of 24,000 pilots there. There is a retirement gulch here, too, and pilots will wind up there. Spoiler Alert! It isn't guaranteed for anyone to get hired into one of the those legacy jobs that work ten days for 200K--check the forums for regional CAs with nary a call for interview. I've been in this biz for 45 years and seen loads of great guys wind up in corporates, military technicians or out of the cockpit. I know guys with closets full of uniforms from past airlines still flying corporate, fractional jobs. I've recently seen guys walk off active duty into legacy jobs while others wait the call. It isn't guaranteed.

Back in the late '90s, I was a SQ/DO (XO, mil tech) watching guys leave the Reserves in a year because, "nothing can go wrong, hiring will go one forever, don't need the reserves and the retirement isn't worth the effort". Well, those guys were furloughed for years in many cases. When showed the UA 2000 contract, I was amazed at the terms (I was a former EAL MEC), well, the next quarter or two were full of red ink.

Anyone who is smug in the flying business is headed for a fall.

GF

Mink
03-18-2017, 09:45 AM
I disagree. His/her post was riddled with situations that seem common in corporate aviation.

No argument with the points being made.

The bedside manner struck me as needing some work.

Good luck to all of you.

galaxy flyer
03-18-2017, 12:41 PM
I disagree. His/her post was riddled with situations that seem common in corporate aviation.

Yes and no! A C-5 crew's bag drag was far worse than shuffling a half dozen bags around a Global's baggage compartment. It's not like anyone who expects pilots to load a B737. I never hand wrote an international flight on a Global or Challenger, as I did hundreds of times in the USAF. The rental car or limo always came out to the ramp in my corporate operation. We flew biz class mostly, I have 1.5 million Marriott points to vacation on and FF miles to fly with. I always had 12 hours or whatever was the planned crew rest. the schedule was flown as planned, if we were scheduled for 3 days off, that was 99.9% true and any change still required 12 hours prior notice. Good corporate ops are more and more common; bad ones exist because the Chief Pilot didn't know how to manage the pilots or how to "manage" the boss. Yes, I was one for years.

I was far more fatigued my first six months at Eastern than ever at a corporate. Used to was, reserve was a 24-hour a day deal. I got called at 2:30am one night to show for a 6am departure and I was 2:15 drive away. Thankfully that nonsense is gone.

GF

PS: Lears are notoriously crappy operations--usually owned by guys who struck it rich and thought they were suddenly Trump. Ego-fueled dumbkopfs

Cookie
03-20-2017, 06:38 PM
I'm in the same but different category. 1.5 yrs or so from mil retirement will be 42 and on the fence. Really enjoy the unique flying of the corporate world (I have BD-700, GV experience) but know I have to find the right flight department that fits. Schedule flexibility or predictability is going to be a factor for me. Airlines appear to offer that but I hear stories and meet folks on the road that have different situations. Of course pay is a factor with multiple kids hitting college but that's why I work multiple jobs.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

dckozak
03-27-2017, 12:24 AM
The OP mentioned NAI as the major or a corporate gig. The response after that post shows that most responders either failed to see this or (I seriously doubt) equate NAI with a major. :eek:
My take; if you can land a real major (DAL, AA, UA, HA, SWA, AK, FDX, or UPS), than take it. If it is anyone less, than you really need to balance the quality of the corporation/flight department and decide from there. If you haven't interviewed yet, than be sure to ask basic questions (for sure of the corporate gig) about QOL issues, time off, call out expectations, future pay after initial first year expectations, etc. With any airline, use this forum and dig out opinion from past posts.

ZapBrannigan
03-27-2017, 03:38 AM
Lears are notoriously crappy operations--usually owned by guys who struck it rich and thought they were suddenly Trump. Ego-fueled dumbkopfs


Or the Fortune #1 company that operates a fleet of 15-20 Learjet 40 and 45s with 60+ pilots...


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galaxy flyer
03-27-2017, 06:46 AM
There is that, Zap.. But, an exception, I think, maybe I've been acquainted with, but not worked for, the type in my mind.

GF

cobalt650
04-12-2017, 04:33 PM
The OP mentioned NAI as the major or a corporate gig. The response after that post shows that most responders either failed to see this or (I seriously doubt) equate NAI with a major. :eek:
My take; if you can land a real major (DAL, AA, UA, HA, SWA, AK, FDX, or UPS), than take it. If it is anyone less, than you really need to balance the quality of the corporation/flight department and decide from there. If you haven't interviewed yet, than be sure to ask basic questions (for sure of the corporate gig) about QOL issues, time off, call out expectations, future pay after initial first year expectations, etc. With any airline, use this forum and dig out opinion from past posts.

I was simply suggesting that outside influences like NAI can impact the health/salary structure for the majors just as a a new CEO can immediately change the course of a corporate flight department, for better or worse. I'm at a major airline now, just looking at corporate options as well.

ZapBrannigan
04-14-2017, 06:12 AM
My old Fortune 500 department offered a 6% 401K match for retirement. Yes, they offered restricted stock units, but gains were taxable!

At every major airline right now the retirement consists of a 15-16% defined contribution -- not a match. No "pay to play". At some of them the profit sharing is a qualified plan which, during a good year, an add another 15% tax free to retirement.

You're talking about 30% tax free contribution on a salary of $100,000+ for a junior FO? It's hard to beat $30,000 contribution at no cost to you.


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Count Dracula
04-14-2017, 07:07 AM
I was 49 and left for a Legacy carrier after 20 years of corporate flying for two private and one public company. The constant dysfunction & politics eventually ran me off. There are great [emoji882] corporate flight departments out there, but very few and far between. Airline flying is not as enjoyable I have to admit, but the QOL & compensation more than make up for the BS & non transparency of corporate aviation.


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cobalt650
04-14-2017, 06:05 PM
I was 49 and left for a Legacy carrier after 20 years of corporate flying for two private and one public company. The constant dysfunction & politics eventually ran me off. There are great [emoji882] corporate flight departments out there, but very few and far between. Airline flying is not as enjoyable I have to admit, but the QOL & compensation more than make up for the BS & non transparency of corporate aviation.


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Strong words Count, thank you!

ZapBrannigan
04-15-2017, 09:46 AM
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.

http://online.propilotmag.com/Apr2017#&pageSet=7&page=0&contentItem=undefined


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Pinkdog
04-15-2017, 05:06 PM
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.

Professional Pilot, April 2017 (http://online.propilotmag.com/Apr2017#&pageSet=7&page=0&contentItem=undefined)


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It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the corporate world...good article. Thanks for sharing.

ZapBrannigan
04-15-2017, 05:21 PM
There are some inaccuracies in there. Wrong percentages on retirement, he writes "match" when he means non-elective contribution (B-fund) and some of his numbers are based on minimum guarantee which is a fairy tale. Nobody has flown that little in forever. But I guess it's conservative. Still it's good to shine a light on the problem the corp depts are going to have


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Likeabat
04-15-2017, 05:58 PM
ProPilot magazine article on corporate retention during an airline pilot hiring boom.

Professional Pilot, April 2017 (http://online.propilotmag.com/Apr2017#&pageSet=7&page=0&contentItem=undefined)


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I believe the word "tsunami" is correct (over the next few years). Our small department just lost one to a Major carrier...and another will likely be putting in his notice next week. Only corporate departments that realize that the competition for pilots is the major airlines (not the corporate department across the field) and adjust accordingly will
be able to retain pilots.

Jedimaster
04-16-2017, 02:42 AM
Corporate job at 130-150k, vs legacy airline, starting at age 50. Ready--------go!

Not sure how this fits, but there are similarities to my situation: starting age 57, 10k+TT, 8k+TPIC, 91, 135 and 121, ... problem is last flight left seat 121, 1995. I sort of got tired of driving the bus and had started a construction/trucking business, which died in the 07 crash, been running the big road ever since. 70+k trucking, with a minimum of bs or supervision make it difficult to return, but I have this bucket list...

2 kids graduated college and two in, one senior and one sophomore left, but pretty much paid for. House almost paid off. Vested in a pension and 401k in good shape.

Talked to old commuter (regional), many old mentors have passed on, but a few still remembered me and invited me back.

However, I flew corporate in the 80's, prior to reluctantly joining a commuter due to the tax law change in 87. (lease back) I loved the type of corporate flying I used to do: Single Pilot turbo prop. What happened to all of those small one or two person flight departments? Sort of my ideal goal, maybe one or two frames with round, steam gauges, as I have zero experience with all of the new glass, FMS junk...? Little worried about that.

121 was nice in a different way, as we had everything planned for us, a very reliable support network and FA's to bring us coffee, but very boring. I just recently spent 3.6 hours in a 172 to get a current BFR, but know that I need a few months in the right seat to get comfortable again.

BTW, the house that's almost paid for is in Portland, OR and I won't be moving. Should I go for the predictable and commutable 121, or search for ... what?? I am considering DPJ, as they are commutable from PDX, but really would prefer to find a small flight department. I have substantial PIC experience in all the normal turbo props, i.e.: King Air, AC-690, Cheyenne, Conquest, as well as, in the airline world: three years Metro Captain and two years DHC-8 Captain. Zero jet experience. (unless you count the "on the job training" in LR-20 series. swingin gear on revenue flights,)

I used to think that I could always easily return to aviation, but am finding that things have really changed and dated experience is almost a handicap ... Words of advice please.
Thank you very much.

Glad2fly
05-03-2017, 08:47 PM
Couple of more points for flying for a major airline/cargo company - when I am off, I am off! If my phone goes off with a call or a text asking me to come in and fly, it's for 1.5 or 2 times my normal pay rate. As for vacation (do corp guys get vacation?), I just turned two weeks of vacation into 4 weeks off with pay. How about retirement? My company will contribute 15% of annual earnings to a my 401(k) - I don't have to put a dime of my own money to get that either. How about profit sharing? Any of you corp. guys get profit sharing? This year was just under 20%. I work 18 days a month (14-15 hard scheduled days, pick up 2-4 days a month of overtime flying) clear 170K/yr in direct compensation and receive an additional 35% in retirement account contributions ($56K). And pay goes up twice a year - on my employment anniversary and the contract amendable date. Any of you corp pilots making that kind of cash? Maybe DJT's personal pilot, but I doubt anyone else out there is making this kind of money.

Flying for a major isn't as exciting as landing a G650 or BBJ in Innsbruck, but I will use my travel bennies and spend $200 for a business class seat to Vienna, get a cut rate rental BMW 750 and meet you there. Oh you can't have a beer at the bar because the boss might want to travel tomorrow? I'll drink it for you.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but at the end of the day a pilot at one of the 4 majors or FedEx/UPS is going to make a lot more $$$, have a better QOL and job protection. I miss a show time due to a flat tire/car trouble, accident or just plain over slept it's a talking to by the chief pilot and letter in my file and I still get paid for that trip. Loud party in the hotel room next door? Air conditioner didn't work? No hot water? A call to crew scheduling telling them you too tired/fatigued to fly, relieved from flying and still get paid. Try calling sick/tired as a Corp pilot and you are probably looking for a new job.

As for NAI or bad executive officer bringing down one of the majors - we're too big to fail. The demand for air travel these days is too great to not make money at it. It's almost as easy as selling whiskey and sex..almost.

One last thing - I don't have to put up with the boss's trophy wife and snotty kids.:cool:
Too big to fail? I remember when Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, Braniff, and a few others thought the same thing. I've flown in part 91 and 135 operations before coming to airlines, but learned years ago to not take it for granted. This roller coaster always goes up and down.

cobalt650
07-02-2017, 05:21 AM
Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!

Chris99
07-02-2017, 06:14 AM
Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!
It lags. Right now they are getting by just fine with salaries that are ~60% of major airlines. The question is whether or not they can keep that up when the majors really start hiring due to retirements and growth.

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ZapBrannigan
07-02-2017, 07:17 AM
They're probably waiting out a significant event that results in higher oil prices, lower point in the economic cycle. If they can wait out the "hire till we furlough" mentality at the majors, they'll be in a better bargaining position.


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Mink
07-02-2017, 07:54 AM
Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!

In general, it's lagging. The only true incentive management feels to improve salaries is if they can't fill the pilot seats. The pilot supply/demand picture is starting to get some notice in the corp flying world, but not to the level where corporate flight departments are throwing money at pilots to keep them from jumping to the 121 world. Yet.

FlyitB
07-03-2017, 03:44 AM
Corporate Flight departments are beginning to feel the pressure of folks moving around within corporate aviation or to the major airlines. I work for a large corporate aviation department and it is hands down the best job I have had. We have a great mix of airlines pilots (Prior UsAir and Delta) and lower time corporate pilots.

Prior to my current position I flew for Jet Aviation (Managed aircraft) around the world and the flying was awesome. Got to see a lot of cool things and stay in some great locations. But, as others were saying; you were close to your phone. Not that we had many pop up trips, but you kinda had to stay available. Prior to that, I spent 12 years at the airlines.

My current employer is not like that. My disclaimer is I really don't want to work. I would rather stay around the house and do what I want to do. This job allows me time to be an effective father and have a life!

We avg 4-8 days a month of flying 5% of that flying is on a weekend. (Mainly Sunday evenings).
No Holidays and No sitting by a phone.
We have a schedule that is online.
70% of the trips are out and backs.
No loading of a bunch of bags [if any at all]
All passengers request are handled by our schedulers/dispatchers.

Pay and benefits are not to bad here. Although they could be a tad better and I think we will get there over the next 12 months or so.

Don't knock the Corporate life... The issue is getting to a good Corporate Company and gives you a good balance.
Keeping your hotel points is awesome too! :)

cobalt650
07-05-2017, 02:50 PM
Corporate Flight departments are beginning to feel the pressure of folks moving around within corporate aviation or to the major airlines. I work for a large corporate aviation department and it is hands down the best job I have had. We have a great mix of airlines pilots (Prior UsAir and Delta) and lower time corporate pilots.

Prior to my current position I flew for Jet Aviation (Managed aircraft) around the world and the flying was awesome. Got to see a lot of cool things and stay in some great locations. But, as others were saying; you were close to your phone. Not that we had many pop up trips, but you kinda had to stay available. Prior to that, I spent 12 years at the airlines.

My current employer is not like that. My disclaimer is I really don't want to work. I would rather stay around the house and do what I want to do. This job allows me time to be an effective father and have a life!

We avg 4-8 days a month of flying 5% of that flying is on a weekend. (Mainly Sunday evenings).
No Holidays and No sitting by a phone.
We have a schedule that is online.
70% of the trips are out and backs.
No loading of a bunch of bags [if any at all]
All passengers request are handled by our schedulers/dispatchers.

Pay and benefits are not to bad here. Although they could be a tad better and I think we will get there over the next 12 months or so.

Don't knock the Corporate life... The issue is getting to a good Corporate Company and gives you a good balance.
Keeping your hotel points is awesome too! :)

Sounds like you've found a Home! Do you have significant duties outside of flying? Training, Safety, Operations oversight, etc? Or an expectation to be in the office when not flying? Thanks much.

FlyitB
07-06-2017, 05:06 AM
Sounds like you've found a Home! Do you have significant duties outside of flying? Training, Safety, Operations oversight, etc? Or an expectation to be in the office when not flying? Thanks much.

There are no real duties outside of what you need to do to remain current. For Example, we are Level 3 (I think) IS-BAO certified so we have to do like 8 classes a year. "Pilot Fatigue, CRM.." stuff like that.

We go to recurrent every 6 months on our aircraft. (We are not dual qualified here, you only fly your type)
International Procedures Recurrent is required every 24 Months

No expectation to be in the office unless you have some required training that has to be done from an office computer or you need to complete your expense report.

Good People here too. No Micromanaging of your time. If you get your stuff done, you won't hear a peep from either of the CP's or Aviation Executive.

Best Luck,

cobalt650
07-07-2017, 06:12 AM
There are no real duties outside of what you need to do to remain current. For Example, we are Level 3 (I think) IS-BAO certified so we have to do like 8 classes a year. "Pilot Fatigue, CRM.." stuff like that.

We go to recurrent every 6 months on our aircraft. (We are not dual qualified here, you only fly your type)
International Procedures Recurrent is required every 24 Months

No expectation to be in the office unless you have some required training that has to be done from an office computer or you need to complete your expense report.

Good People here too. No Micromanaging of your time. If you get your stuff done, you won't hear a peep from either of the CP's or Aviation Executive.

Best Luck,


That. Is. Awesome:)

DSflyer05
07-24-2017, 10:26 AM
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



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mainlineAF
07-24-2017, 12:02 PM
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Airlines. 100%.

galaxy flyer
07-24-2017, 01:45 PM
Depending on your desires, a tough call. If you want to move to management and have the skills, corporate aviation directors can, and will continue to be able, to name their price. 300k-400k is no longer out of the box. I know several approaching that now. One turned down recall at UAL and another turned down FDX interview.

OTOH, if you just want fly and be on a seniority list, go airlines.


GF

Count Dracula
07-24-2017, 02:37 PM
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



At 34, I would not blink an eye. DAL, UAL, AAL, UPS, FDX, SWA should be your main targets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BoilerUP
07-24-2017, 03:14 PM
I personally know more than a couple pilots who were flying super-mid or large cabin jets in their mid-30s who are now at UPS, FedEx or SWA.

100LL
07-24-2017, 03:29 PM
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you leave let me know. I wouldn't mind to have your job. :D

Skydriver02
07-26-2017, 07:31 AM
I am looking at the same situation, only everything on a smaller scale. Everything seems to be as the original question, except I am early in my career at 33 years old. Over 5,000 TT working on degree. I fly corporate/captain and make NBAA wages on a "under 20k" jet. Recently, I have been offered interviews at NetJets and Spirit, but my boss is incentivizing to stay by hiring another PIC and awarding hard days off to pilots. It's not bad QOL and am only gone 9 nights a month on average. With another PIC I'll get days off when needed. I'd love to hear from the guys that jumped from 91 to 121.
Goals are simply best QOL and fair pay. In the long run I don't want to work 20 days a month as household income is no problem. Suggestions?

BoilerUP
07-26-2017, 08:26 AM
I am looking at the same situation, only everything on a smaller scale. Everything seems to be as the original question, except I am early in my career at 33 years old. Over 5,000 TT working on degree. I fly corporate/captain and make NBAA wages on a "under 20k" jet. Recently, I have been offered interviews at NetJets and Spirit, but my boss is incentivizing to stay by hiring another PIC and awarding hard days off to pilots. It's not bad QOL and am only gone 9 nights a month on average. With another PIC I'll get days off when needed. I'd love to hear from the guys that jumped from 91 to 121.
Goals are simply best QOL and fair pay. In the long run I don't want to work 20 days a month as household income is no problem. Suggestions?

I went from CP of a NBAA Jet II department to a major cargo airline a few years ago while in my early 30s. I loved my corporate job - airplane wasn't the biggest and pay wasn't the highest, but my boss was great and my QOL was exceptional. I worked about 14-15 days per month, of which maybe 10-12 were flying and the remainder were 2-3 hour "days" at the office doing paperwork and/or the hangar doing database updates. Rarely flew weekends (maybe 10 total weekend days per year), every holiday off, family was welcome to come along on trips if seats were open.

I had the opportunity to take an airline job that happened to be in the same geographic area I was already living/working, and it was an absolute no-brainer from a long-term security and compensation perspective. QOL-wise, I knew I was going to be junior for a while and being junior means working crappy schedules...but I ended up becoming a "professional reserve" and generally working 10ish days per month. Sure I was on call, but that was pretty normal as a former corporate guy and I was at home vs. a crashpad. I have not worked a major holiday - been home Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and been home almost every Valentines Day and birthday. Now I generally bid out-and-back trips; report around 2-3am, fly two or three legs, duty off 1030-1130am and do 12 of those a month (Tues-Thurs every week, or Tues-Fri three of four weeks). Home every day with weekends off.

I can't speak for Spirit or NJA, but living in domicile has afforded me an even better QOL than I had flying corporate - thankfully no more late-night or short-notice phone calls from the boss and the ability to easily make more money if I want by picking up open time. I don't accumulate hotel stays/points, and rental cars are on my dime, but having hard days off in advance and not having to stress about a broken plane and how to accomplish the mission has been nice.

IMO, early 30s, making the leap from 99% of small-cabin operations to a legacy or major cargo carrier is a no-brainer; a fractional or ULCC may require exploring the value proposition a bit closer and I'd put heavy emphasis on location if QOL is a driver - commuting sucks.

Skydriver02
07-26-2017, 08:37 AM
I went from CP of a NBAA Jet II department to a major cargo airline a few years ago while in my early 30s. I loved my corporate job - airplane wasn't the biggest and pay wasn't the highest, but my boss was great and my QOL was exceptional. I worked about 14-15 days per month, of which maybe 10-12 were flying and the remainder were 2-3 hour "days" at the office doing paperwork and/or the hangar doing database updates. Rarely flew weekends (maybe 10 total weekend days per year), every holiday off, family was welcome to come along on trips if seats were open.

I had the opportunity to take an airline job that happened to be in the same geographic area I was already living/working, and it was an absolute no-brainer from a long-term security and compensation perspective. QOL-wise, I knew I was going to be junior for a while and being junior means working crappy schedules...but I ended up becoming a "professional reserve" and generally working 10ish days per month. Sure I was on call, but that was pretty normal as a former corporate guy and I was at home vs. a crashpad. I have not worked a major holiday - been home Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and been home almost every Valentines Day and birthday. Now I generally bid out-and-back trips; report around 2-3am, fly two or three legs, duty off 1030-1130am and do 12 of those a month (Tues-Thurs every week, or Tues-Fri three of four weeks). Home every day with weekends off.

I can't speak for Spirit or NJA, but living in domicile has afforded me an even better QOL than I had flying corporate - thankfully no more late-night or short-notice phone calls from the boss and the ability to easily make more money if I want by picking up open time. I don't accumulate hotel stays/points, and rental cars are on my dime, but having hard days off in advance and not having to stress about a broken plane and how to accomplish the mission has been nice.

IMO, early 30s, making the leap from 99% of small-cabin operations to a legacy or major cargo carrier is a no-brainer; a fractional or ULCC may require exploring the value proposition a bit closer and I'd put heavy emphasis on location if QOL is a driver - commuting sucks.

That is exceptional information and a very similar situation to my current employment. You hit the nail on the head about being on call, worrying about trips and "extra duties". Thank you for giving me some insight into the transition for you. Unfortunately I haven't had a call from a legacy so Spirit (Frontier offered interview as well) is the only option at this point. I believe that call could happen with time, but wanted to position myself best today.

Thanks for taking the time to give insight.

Sliceback
07-26-2017, 01:37 PM
You need a four year degree for a major airline. It's not 100% required but it's over 99%, and possible 99.7% to 99.9%, in the recent past.

Skydriver02
07-26-2017, 02:13 PM
You need a four year degree for a major airline. It's not 100% required but it's over 99%, and possible 99.7% to 99.9%, in the recent past.
Fully aware and working on it. It will be completed either way. Probably 1 year left. Then masters. Already accepted to M.S. The question was more geared to QOL differences from guys that made the switch.

cobalt650
07-30-2017, 10:25 AM
How long do Chief Pilots typically stay in their position? A few years, a decade, until they retire?

Vital Signs
07-30-2017, 11:51 AM
How long do Chief Pilots typically stay in their position? A few years, a decade, until they retire?

Until they die.

galaxy flyer
07-30-2017, 05:57 PM
I just retired as one after two years; but many go on and on....others, not adept and leading their troops or can't deal with the corporate office are gone in short order. It's a delicate game that needs deep people skills.

GF



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