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View Full Version : Anyone get a Norwegian interview?


JTwift
02-24-2017, 02:11 AM
I filled out the app two days ago and got an invite this morning for interview in Miami in early March.

I didn't quite expect this quick of a turnaround, to be honest. I also can't find a single thing about their pilot pay scales (I guess just extrapolate the Euro pay into USD?)


Usafbmw
02-24-2017, 03:00 AM
Here is the pay and their information, sparse as it is.


737 first then 787.

CAREFUL FOR THE BONDING requirement ON THE 787.

This is hardly competitive for US carriers...





The B737 Max8


The Job

Successful applicants will be employed by OSM Aviation Inc., based at Providence Theodore Francis Green International Airport (PVD), RI or Newburgh Stewart International Airport (SWF), NY, flying Norwegian B737 MAX on our new medium long haul operation.

The Airline

Norwegian is a high quality airline with 118 aircrafts in its fleet. In addition, they have a firm order on 260 new aircrafts. They operate Boeing 737NG and B787.
Norwegian has repetitiously won Best Low Cost Airline for both Short Haul- and Long Haul carrier.
Norwegian is Launch customer for the MAX in Europe, and the first to set the aircraft into production.

The Employer
OSM Aviation was established only 3 years ago and has already positioned itself as one of the worlds leading crew management companies.
Our misson is to be a responsible employer ensuring best practice…..It’s all about people!
OSM Aviation vow always to be a socially responsible employer, abiding by the law and taxation regulations in all countries and territories where we employ people. Our employees shall feel secure in their employment and feel pride in the work they do.

Our Bases

We currently operate the below bases. Availability depends on the popularity of each base. Norwegian has a base bidding system where all short haul pilots can get their bids fullfilled in order of seniority
USA:
Providence Theodore Francis Green International Airport (PVD), RI Newburgh Stewart International Airport (SWF), NY
Europe:
London, Gatwick LGW Edinburgh EDI




Helsinki HEL Riga RIX Rome FCO Barcelona BCN Madrid MAD
Palma de Mallorca PMI Alicante ALQ
Malaga AGP Las Palmas LPA Tenerife TFS

Scandinavian bases only accept bids for First Officer positions in order of seniority and when positions become available. These are OSL, TRD, BGO, ARN and CPH.


The Exiting World of Norwegian




What we require



Note: You must have the legal right to live and work in the United States

Captains B737 - non Type-Rated Qualifications

FAA/EASA License (If FAA: Validation and conversion during the first 2 years) EASA Medical Class 1
4000 h Total Time
2000 h PIC on Commercial Jets => 30T MTOW
English,languageproficiency“ICAO”level 5 or higher, or “proficient”as per FAA No criminal record or accidents

Captains B737 - Type-Rated Qualifications

FAA/EASA License (If FAA: Validation and conversion during the first 2 years) EASA Medical Class 1
4000 h total time
2000 h PIC on Commercial Jets => 30T MTOW
500 h PIC on B737-300/800 and 150 hours within the last 12 months. A minimum of 500 h total flight time as commander on type
English, language proficiency“ICAO”level 5 or higher, or “proficient”as per FAA No criminal record or accidents




First Officers B737 - Type Rated Qualifications

FAA/EASA License (ATP) (If FAA: Validation and conversion during the first 2 years)
EASA Medical Class 1 1,500 h total time
500 h on B737-300/800 and 150 hours within the last 12 months
English,languageproficiency“ICAO”level 4 or higher, or “proficient”as per FAA No criminal record or accidents

First Officers B737 - non Type-Rated Qualifications

FAA/EASA License (ATP) (If FAA: Validation and conversion during the first 2 years)
EASA Medical Class 1 1,500 h total time
500 h relevant experience in commercial operations within the last 12 months English,languageproficiency“ICAO”level 5 or higher, or “proficient”as per FAA No criminal record or accidents

Fast Track Command

If you have a high level of experience on large turbo prop aircraft, the time in the right seat required is around 700 hours (approx 12 months) before command upgrade can start. The combination of total time and jet time is thus 6000 with minimum 700 being on Norwegian (plus upgrade training). It will, naturally, require passing the CDR evaluation.
(Ex1: you have a total of more than 5300 hours on a Dash8, you only need 700 hours in the right seat before you can upgrade as a B737 CDR. Ex2: You have 3500 hours total of which 2200 hours are on jets over 30T MTOW, you will only need 300 hours in the right seat to be eligible for command upgrade). The above examples are always dependent on the need of captains and you passing the upgrade requirements.

What we offer


Your Duty Periods starts and finishes at assign base – PVD or SWF

Your Gross Salary* Captain: $8.500/monthFirst Officer: $4.700/month

Your Per Diem/Allowance

$1.000 (all ranks)

Your Bought Day Off

Captain: 10% of your monthly salary $850 per day First Officer: 10% of your monthly salary $470 per day






Your Phone Allowance

Captain: $ 100 per month
First Officer: $ 50 per month

Your Special job pay

Base Chief Captain: $ TBD per month Line Training Captains: $ 20 per hour
Simulator Instructors: $ 40 per hour (CA, FO) Check Captains: $ 40 per hour

*Monthly payment from day one at training.

Your Time Off

You will get a minimum of 10 days off in a month. You will have 28 days of paid annual leave.


Your Sick leave

30 paid sick leave days per year then as per insurance

Your Layover Station Transportation & Accommodation

Provided by Norwegian.

Your Travel Benefits

ID travel benefits are provided to you and your qualifying family members on Norwegian services according to current policies
Service Tickets (S2) are provided to pilots for travel to and from work

Health plan

Major Medical + GAP – Employer pays 50% Dental & Vision – Voluntary
Life and Short Term Disability – 100% covered

Your Insurance

Both Medical and Personal Accident and Illness insurance is provided by OSM Aviation




Loss of License insurance sum varies with age, starting from EUR 200,000 up to 44 years of age and declining to EUR 50,000 from the age of 59.

Your Training

Training will typically be with a Type-Rating vendor. OCC and Type-Rating will be with Norwegian at one of the training bases in the US or Europe.

Your Training Cost Bond

Unless you are B737 rated, before commencing training you must sign a Non- Compete clause valid for the first three years. No cost for the pilot.




Your Contract

Your contract will be a 3-year renewable OSM Aviation contract, within 2 years you must however, successfully pass the test for the EASA ATPL if not yet in possession of such.
You must be able to pass the EASA Class 1 medical, and you must take an ICAO English test (EPL) if you have never passed this previously, even if you have automatically been awarded an EPL level by your current authority.

TheWayto Apply and then what?


Apply via:
https://osmaviation.com/personnel/jobs/ (https://osmaviation.com/personnel/jobs/)

OSM Aviation in cooperation with Norwegian will set up Interview processes where we will accommodate you either in MIA or other venues.

If you need to travel for the screening process, Norwegian can arrange tickets on the Norwegian network to attend.
We can book hotel at our rates if needed, but the you must settle the bill with the hotel upon arrival.







Your Interview


Wewill make several dates available for you in either MIA or other venues The process takes one day.

The content of the interview is (all times are approximate)

- A short presentation of OSM Aviation and Norwegian
- A Group Exercise (0:30)
- A Structured Interview (0:30)
- A Technical interview (0:30)
- An EPST Advanced Compass Test (1:30)
- A Documentation Check (a list of required documents will be sent with the invitation)
- A simulator check
The result will be forwarded as soon as possible, usually within a week or two.

By this offer we hope we can give you a bit the fascinating world offered to you by OSM Aviation with our presence in 14 countries and with Norwegian and their worldwide network.

On Behalf of OSM Aviation and our operator Norwegian

The OSM Aviation Pilot Recruitment Team


OSM AVIATION GROUP
www.osmaviation.com (http://www.osmaviation.com/)

--------------------------------





B787NorwegianDreamlinerFlightCrew,FortLauderdale,F lorida


‘Be part of the airline where low price meets high quality’‘Be employed by a company where ‘It’s all about people’


The Job


Successful applicants will be employed by OSM Aviation, based at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport (FLL), FL, flying Norwegian B787 Dreamliners on our exiting long haul network

The Airline


Norwegian is a high quality
Norwegian has repetitiously won Best Low Cost Airline for both Short Haul- and Long Haul carrier

What we require

Note: You must have the legal right to live and work in the United States Captain
FAA or EASA ATPL License
FAA or EASA Medical Class 1 (EASA Class 1 Medical required before commencing flight duty) 6,000 hours total flight time
2,500 hours PIC hours on any EFIS jet aircraft
1,000 hours on a wide body or narrow body aircraft in long haul operation

Relief Captain
FAA or EASA ATPL License
FAA or EASA Medical Class 1 (EASA Class 1 Medical required before commencing flight duty) 5,000 hours total flight time
2,500 hours on any EFIS jet aircraft
1,500 hours PIC hours on any EFIS jet aircraft or 1,500 hours as FO on a wide body aircraft

First Officer
FAA or EASA ATPL License
FAA or EASA Medical Class 1 (EASA Class 1 Medical required before commencing flight duty) 1,500 hours total time
1,000 hours on any EFIS jet aircraft




What we offer







Your Duty Periods starts and finishes at FLL

YourGross Salary
Captain: $10,000 per month Relief Captain: $ 7,500 per month First Officer: $ 5,500 per month

YourPerDiem/Allowance
$ 1,000 per month (all ranks)

YourBoughtDay Off
Captain: $1,000 per day Relief Captain: $ 750 per day First Officer: $ 550 per day

YourPhoneAllowance
Captain: $100 per month Relief Captain: $ 50 per month First Officer: $ 50 per month

YourSpecialjobpay
Base Chief Captain: $1,000 per month Line Training Captains: $20 per hour
Simulator Instructors: $40 per hour (CA, RCA, FO) Check Captains: $40 per hour



YourTimeOff
You will get a minimum of 10 days off in a month You will have 28 days of paid annual leave

YourSickleave
30 paid sick leave days per year

YourLayoverStationTransportation& AccommodationProvided by Norwegian.

YourTravelBenefits
ID travel benefits are provided to you and your qualifying family members on Norwegian services according to current policies
Service Tickets are provided to pilots for duty travel in conjunction with work

YourInsurance
Both Medical and Personal Accident and Illness insurance is provided by OSM Aviation Loss of License insurance covers two years basic pay





Your Training


For near-type-rated (B737E/NG, B744, B748, B757/767) your type-rating course will be 17 days.

Forthosewitha type-rating on B777, when qualified, the license will be endorsed withB777/B787as they are considered same type
TrainingwillbeperformedattrainingcentresineitherLo ndonGatwickorMiamiToqualifyfora short-courses you must be fully current

The Training Cost Bond

Unless you are B787 or B777 rated, before commencing training you must sign a training cost bond which will be reduced by 1/3 annually
- For pilots current on B737E/NG,B744,B748,orB757/767,theisUSD30,000
- Forall other ratings the bond is USD 40,000

Your Contract


Your contract will be a 3-year renewable OSM Aviation contract, within 2 years you must however, successfully pass the test for the EASA ATPL if not yet in possession of such.
You must be able to pass the EASA Class 1 medical, and you must take an ICAO English test (EPL) if you have never passed this previously, even if you have automatically been awarded an EPL level by your current authority.

JTwift
02-24-2017, 04:09 AM
I was on mobile and didn't see the attachment. Yup, this is direct cut/paste from what they sent me.

Seems....underwhelming, especially with a 3 year contract.


Smooth at FL450
02-24-2017, 05:17 AM
I filled out the app two days ago and got an invite this morning for interview in Miami in early March.

I didn't quite expect this quick of a turnaround, to be honest. I also can't find a single thing about their pilot pay scales (I guess just extrapolate the Euro pay into USD?)


Interview invite 2 days after applying? Guess that says a lot about the place and the lack of applicants.

JTwift
02-24-2017, 05:52 AM
Interview invite 2 days after applying? Guess that says a lot about the place and the lack of applicants.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.

mainlineAF
02-24-2017, 06:32 AM
Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.



What appeals to you about working at NAI?

JTwift
02-24-2017, 07:12 AM
What appeals to you about working at NAI?

Well, I admittedly put my apps in late in the game. I'm retiring from the AF soon. So, I applied, but I also couldn't find anything about their US pay, etc.

So.....Yeah. I'm in a unique (for me) position where I get one free move to anywhere in the US. I can finally pick where I want to go. Now it's just a matter of finding a job.

mainlineAF
02-24-2017, 07:16 AM
[QUOTE=JTwift;2307970]Well, I admittedly put my apps in late in the game. I'm retiring from the AF soon. So, I applied, but I also couldn't find anything about their US pay, etc.



So.....Yeah. I'm in a unique (for me) position where I get one free move to anywhere in the US. I can finally pick where I want to go. Now it's just a matter of finding a job.[/



Please do more research on NAI. As a retiring Mil guy you can get a job at a major fairly easily. May take a short stint at a regional. DO NOT accept a 3 year bond for a crappy job that will tarnish you for a long time.

GogglesPisano
02-24-2017, 07:31 AM
Well, I admittedly put my apps in late in the game. I'm retiring from the AF soon. So, I applied, but I also couldn't find anything about their US pay, etc.

So.....Yeah. I'm in a unique (for me) position where I get one free move to anywhere in the US. I can finally pick where I want to go. Now it's just a matter of finding a job.

Good God, man. Do some research right here on APC about this outfit first.

WHACKMASTER
02-24-2017, 07:44 AM
Well, I admittedly put my apps in late in the game. I'm retiring from the AF soon. So, I applied, but I also couldn't find anything about their US pay, etc.

So.....Yeah. I'm in a unique (for me) position where I get one free move to anywhere in the US. I can finally pick where I want to go. Now it's just a matter of finding a job.

Might want to factor in the aspect of being considered on par with a scab by many if you take this job. That could hamper your future plans to move onto some place else when you inevitably get tired of being grossly overworked and severely underpaid.

Personally, I'd get educated a little on how much hate there is for this carrier and anyone flying for them. I'd avoid it like a hooker from sub-Sahara Africa.

JTwift
02-24-2017, 08:12 AM
Might want to factor in the aspect of being considered on par with a scab by many if you take this job. That could hamper your future plans to move onto some place else when you inevitably get tired of being grossly overworked and severely underpaid.

Personally, I'd get educated a little on how much hate there is for this carrier and anyone flying for them. I'd avoid it like a hooker from sub-Sahara Africa.

Yeah, I'm picking up on that.

WHACKMASTER
02-24-2017, 08:30 AM
Yeah, I'm picking up on that.

Phew......we were wondering what exactly you were thinking ;)

gettinbumped
02-24-2017, 08:33 AM
I'm actually glad you posted this here. Perhaps you can pass along what you learn to other folks coming out of the military who haven't been following the commercial airline world. Life as an NAI pilot is going to be bleak. Not only will the job blow, but (like it or not) you will be branded in the industry. Short term "gain" for a lot of long term pain. Plenty of other jobs out there to hunt for. Best of luck, but think LONG and hard before you sign up for NAI

Packrat
02-24-2017, 09:33 AM
Once again, NAI pilots are NOT SCABS. Not even close. The term has a specific meaning and should not be diluted.

WHACKMASTER
02-24-2017, 09:40 AM
Once again, NAI pilots are NOT SCABS. Not even close. The term has a specific meaning and should not be diluted.

What part of "considered on par with" did you not understand? Many (including myself) would look at them with the same disdain as scabs.

intrepidcv11
02-24-2017, 11:04 AM
Please do more research on NAI. As a retiring Mil guy you can get a job at a major fairly easily. May take a short stint at a regional. DO NOT accept a 3 year bond for a crappy job that will tarnish you for a long time.

Even you ignore the scab and tarnish talk reread this post. Anyone remotely competive in US Market should not be shackling themselves to a 3 year training bond and the other bs.

zondaracer
02-25-2017, 05:57 AM
You can make more at a regional now and have no training bond. Every regional will hire you tomorrow except for the one regional not hiring.

The Dominican
02-25-2017, 03:49 PM
Life as an NAI pilot is going to be bleak. Not only will the job blow, but (like it or not) you will be branded in the industry.

The same thing has been said over and over throughout the years..., the UAL and CAL actual scabs..., not considered scabs but actual people who crossed picket lines are today full members of ALPA and they ride your jumpseats regularly..., the same thing was said about the FedEx pilots back in the day...., Gojets and many others!

The simple truth is there is always a lot of tough talk but then the laser pointer is directed towards the new "enemy" and the tough talk is forgotten:rolleyes:

flyboycpa
02-25-2017, 04:16 PM
So, from the job posting shown above, how can anyone hold their head up and say they are willing to work for a company that pays Captains 102,000 and First Officers 56,400 AND flies a 737 across the Atlantic for those rates?!?!?!?!

JTwift
02-25-2017, 04:33 PM
So, from the job posting shown above, how can anyone hold their head up and say they are willing to work for a company that pays Captains 102,000 and First Officers 56,400 AND flies a 737 across the Atlantic for those rates?!?!?!?!

Don't forget the three year training bond.

Bozo the pilot
02-25-2017, 08:24 PM
Don't forget the three year training bond.

Its a job for guys who have multiple checkride failures and Dwis- now where do I apply?:D

LIOG41
02-25-2017, 10:49 PM
scabs. this airline needs to be shut down...quick...it is no good to anyone in this country.

Kapitanleutnant
02-26-2017, 05:41 AM
Maybe I missed it but....

Why are you not interested in a US Carrier... any particular reason? Overseas flying IS fun but I do think you'll be branded, rightfully or wrongfully and that's probably not something you'd enjoy having to live with if you someday decide to come work for a US airline.

Good luck in whatever you choose but like life itself, making decisions on certain employers can indeed affect things... fairly or not... in life.

I/m at an overseas carrier and there have been a few European guys go to Norwegian on the 787. From what I've heard back is the pay is pretty low. But these guys have to pay very hefty taxes. I'm not sure how they'll be if you're based in the US. Proly something worth finding out in your quest for info!

Kap

Mythbuster
02-26-2017, 04:54 PM
Remember also that you'll have to be working towards an EASA ATP which is a tedious and time consuming process.
If you go to NAI, you're probably setting yourself up to be an overseas contract pilot for your career. There are pluses and minuses to that lifestyle. Just know what you're getting into.

EXPAT1
02-26-2017, 08:21 PM
For those considering this look elsewhere IMHO. The pay for a 737 or 787 Captain is only about 10K per month on top of this you would be an employee of an agency who is contracted with an Irish company but yet living and working in a US base which means fully taxable. In other words this is definitely NOT an Ex-Pat gig. China, India or even the Middle East pay much more and would probably work you less than this slave operation. The difficulty of obtaining an EASA ATPL and jumping through all the hoops and 14 different ATP tests over a 2 year period will leave you constantly studying with little time away from the job.

Proximity
02-26-2017, 09:08 PM
The pay for a 737 or 787 Captain is only about 10K per month on top of this you would be an employee of an agency who is contracted with an Irish company but yet living and working in a US base which means fully taxable.

Since it is an Irish company they likely will not be paying the employer half of the FICA tax, so you'll likely have to pay another 7.65% over what a true USA based job would pay.

MasterOfPuppets
02-27-2017, 10:28 AM
Its a job for guys who have multiple checkride failures and Dwis- now where do I apply?:D

Can't wait for these idiots to be out on the tracks.......look out below and above.

LoFly
02-27-2017, 11:19 AM
I had the interview scheduled for Feb 4th in Oslo, I turned it down after talking to one of the Norwegian 737 instructors and pilot union rapresentative. He said:
- NAI is operated by a third part company that is still struggling getting their $*** togheter;
- NAI doesn't have a pilot Union;
- The 787 pilots of Norwegian in EU all complain about very intense schedules. And coming from EU pilots... it must be hell! In EU pilots actually work :) ;
- you probably know there's a $40.000 training bond, decreasing every year in the first 3 years, so if you hate it there and you want to move on... be ready to pay $$$$!

I'd like to hear also the other side of the coin though. Anybody did actually go to Oslo to interview? Impressions?

Stratapilot
02-27-2017, 06:30 PM
The pay maybe awful, the scheduled may blow however THIS is something that needs to grab everyone's attention. Unreal.

Your Training Cost Bond

Unless you are B737 rated, before commencing training you must sign a Non- Compete clause valid for the first three years. No cost for the pilot.

snackysmores
02-27-2017, 06:37 PM
Once again, NAI pilots are NOT SCABS. Not even close. The term has a specific meaning and should not be diluted.

They are worse than scabs.

lowflying
02-27-2017, 07:43 PM
Just brainstorming but I think NAI guys/girls would make ideal candidates at the majors. With such crappy terms United, Delta et al. could hire NAI pilots en masses and cripple NAI's operation. At the least NAI would be forced to up their compensation to keep pilots from jumping ship.

Csy Mon
02-27-2017, 07:47 PM
They are worse than scabs.

No..

Scabs are the worst, they cross picket lines and they take YOUR job while you are on strike.

NAI pilots are not scabs.
They may be confused, or they may have DUIs whatever, but they probably did not cross your picket line: Big Difference.

Csy Mon
02-27-2017, 07:49 PM
Just brainstorming but I think NAI guys/girls would make ideal candidates at the majors. With such crappy terms United, Delta et al. could hire NAI pilots en masses and cripple NAI's operation. At the least NAI would be forced to up their compensation to keep pilots from jumping ship.

THIS.../\./\./\...

Packrat
02-27-2017, 08:34 PM
They are worse.

I guessed I missed the picket line they crossed. For the umpteenth time: The term scab has one meaning and one meaning only. You may not like choices they've made, but they're not scabs.

trip
02-28-2017, 06:33 AM
Just brainstorming but I think NAI guys/girls would make ideal candidates at the majors. With such crappy terms United, Delta et al. could hire NAI pilots en masses and cripple NAI's operation. At the least NAI would be forced to up their compensation to keep pilots from jumping ship.

Sure great plan, whiling sticking it to the faithful RJ driver who stood firm and didn't run to NAI. YOU guys are ridiculous.

lowflying
02-28-2017, 11:57 AM
Sure great plan, whiling sticking it to the faithful RJ driver who stood firm and didn't run to NAI. YOU guys are ridiculous.


I'm with you on the faithful rj driver part but, NAI isn't going to be a big operation. The impact, spread out over the two three hundred pilots hired every month, to our chances of getting hired would be minimal.

adebord
02-28-2017, 07:08 PM
Just brainstorming but I think NAI guys/girls would make ideal candidates at the majors. With such crappy terms United, Delta et al. could hire NAI pilots en masses and cripple NAI's operation. At the least NAI would be forced to up their compensation to keep pilots from jumping ship.

Every time they leave, they have to cut their slave master NAI a check.

NMuir
02-28-2017, 08:36 PM
scabs. this airline needs to be shut down...quick...it is no good to anyone in this country.

It's a lot of good to passengers who can't otherwise afford to travel overseas.

Packrat
02-28-2017, 08:42 PM
It's a lot of good to passengers who can't otherwise afford to travel overseas.

Again, Rome to U.S.

Delta - $2000
NAI - $400

For all the squawking here, I'd bet most airline pilots paying their own money will be flying NAI.

typeunkwn
02-28-2017, 09:02 PM
Again, Rome to U.S.

Delta - $2000
NAI - $400

For all the squawking here, I'd bet most airline pilots paying their own money will be flying NAI.

You need to be medicated. And if you already are...up your dosage.

WHACKMASTER
02-28-2017, 10:07 PM
It's a lot of good to passengers who can't otherwise afford to travel overseas.

Go away troll.

Packrat
03-01-2017, 06:01 AM
You need to be medicated. And if you already are...up your dosage.

Go away troll.

I forgot. Never express an opinion that runs counter to APC groupthink.

captjns
03-01-2017, 06:50 AM
You need to be medicated. And if you already are...up your dosage.

Other than that statement pertaining to airline pilots, typeunkwn, can you please elaborate as to why Packrat needs to be on meds, or up the dosage?

What if, you're the only pilot available in the company. You have to get to Rome to cover a trip back to the U.S. The SOC gives you your marching orders to travel to Rome which happens to be on NAI. No other seats available on any other carrier on the planet. Do you dig your heals in, refuse the trip at the risk of losing your job or do you take the trip.

At the end of the day, after 40 years in the biz, I know carriers will take actions as required to mitegate delays using most economical means in auctioning their plan. Even if it means putting crews on competing carriers, be they U.S. or foreign.

JTwift
03-03-2017, 05:47 PM
For what it's worth, I told them thanks, but no thanks. I wasn't interested in a 3-year non-compete bond.

They were very nice in their response and wished me luck.

intrepidcv11
03-03-2017, 07:10 PM
Other than that statement pertaining to airline pilots, typeunkwn, can you please elaborate as to why Packrat needs to be on meds, or up the dosage?

What if, you're the only pilot available in the company. You have to get to Rome to cover a trip back to the U.S. The SOC gives you your marching orders to travel to Rome which happens to be on NAI. No other seats available on any other carrier on the planet. Do you dig your heals in, refuse the trip at the risk of losing your job or do you take the trip.

At the end of the day, after 40 years in the biz, I know carriers will take actions as required to mitegate delays using most economical means in auctioning their plan. Even if it means putting crews on competing carriers, be they U.S. or foreign.


Cool story bruh...

Jaded N Cynical
03-09-2017, 06:06 AM
Pilots who want to sell themselves short and work at NAI are not scabs.......

Scabs didn't have to pay a training bond for the job.

NEDude
03-09-2017, 11:15 AM
Pilots who want to sell themselves short and work at NAI are not scabs.......

Scabs didn't have to pay a training bond for the job.

Scabs are those who crossed picket lines to fly struck work. That, and only that, is what makes a scab.

Jaded N Cynical
03-09-2017, 11:22 AM
You so missed the point NEDude

NEDude
03-10-2017, 12:51 AM
You so missed the point NEDude

No, I get the point. You are making a comparison between two very different things in an attempt to be cute.

Jaded N Cynical
03-10-2017, 04:49 AM
No, I get the point. You are making a comparison between two very different things in an attempt to be cute.

Exactly, Scabs didn't have to shell out money to sell themselves out.

Need a loan to cover that training bond?

NEDude
03-10-2017, 05:54 AM
Exactly, Scabs didn't have to shell out money to sell themselves out.

Need a loan to cover that training bond?

No, because I don't work for Norwegian. Pay attention.

PotatoChip
03-10-2017, 08:24 AM
Exactly, Scabs didn't have to shell out money to sell themselves out.

Need a loan to cover that training bond?

So are we calling Sun Country pilots worse than scabs now, too??

Grumble
03-10-2017, 11:10 AM
NAI pilots are not scabs. Scabs take a short cut, and steal a job they otherwise couldn't earn.

Scabs didn't try to work for an operation attempting to decimate the career, lower the bar, and roll back generations of effort to raise pay, quality of life, and job security. NAI pilots do.

Both should be held in the same regard.

Typhoonpilot
03-10-2017, 03:37 PM
Union thugs are awesome aren't they?

Label someone a scab or threaten to destroy their life and career because you are not falling in line with their view of the world.

Truly inspirational and convincing :rolleyes:

NEDude
03-10-2017, 08:57 PM
NAI pilots are not scabs. Scabs take a short cut, and steal a job they otherwise couldn't earn.

Scabs didn't try to work for an operation attempting to decimate the career, lower the bar, and roll back generations of effort to raise pay, quality of life, and job security. NAI pilots do.

Both should be held in the same regard.

So how do you view all the guys who participated in the pay for training schemes at places like Comair, ASA, Continental Express and a few others? You know, where you had to shell out about the equivalent of your first year salary to cover the initial airline training. Of course the reward was the ability to live in poverty while Domino's Pizza delivery drivers earned more than you. At least with Norwegian you get the training bond back after three years and you have a type rating to show for it. With the PFT schemes you never got the money back and since it was back in the days when FOs did not get type ratings, you had nothing to show for it either. Many airlines had the PFT scheme in the 1990s and early 2000s, but certainly not all, so there were options to avoid the PFT scheme. Was that raising the bar for the industry?

Jaded N Cynical
03-11-2017, 06:38 AM
So how do you view all the guys who participated in the pay for training schemes at places like Comair, ASA, Continental Express and a few others? You know, where you had to shell out about the equivalent of your first year salary to cover the initial airline training. Of course the reward was the ability to live in poverty while Domino's Pizza delivery drivers earned more than you. At least with Norwegian you get the training bond back after three years and you have a type rating to show for it. With the PFT schemes you never got the money back and since it was back in the days when FOs did not get type ratings, you had nothing to show for it either. Many airlines had the PFT scheme in the 1990s and early 2000s, but certainly not all, so there were options to avoid the PFT scheme. Was that raising the bar for the industry?


Whatever helps you sleep better. Rationalization at it's best.

NEDude
03-11-2017, 07:28 AM
Whatever helps you sleep better. Rationalization at it's best.

Deflecting the question. Nice tactic...

I never PFT'd, never crossed a picket line, don't work for Norwegian. I sleep just fine at night.

Farmlover
03-11-2017, 08:51 AM
Deflecting the question. Nice tactic...

I never PFT'd, never crossed a picket line, don't work for Norwegian. I sleep just fine at night.

I won't call you a scab Because what you guys are doing is worse than being a scab.

Typhoonpilot
03-11-2017, 09:40 AM
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa106/typhoonpilot/Caveman-communication-in-the-workplace-_zpsfc05461a.jpg

Here is a union thug on his way to work. :D

Hard to believe some of these actually graduated from college.

PotatoChip
03-11-2017, 10:00 AM
I won't call you a scab Because what you guys are doing is worse than being a scab.

What, exactly, is NEDude doing????

NEDude
03-11-2017, 11:07 AM
I won't call you a scab Because what you guys are doing is worse than being a scab.

What exactly am I doing? And who is "you guys"? Did you skip reading comprehension day?

Cazadores
03-11-2017, 11:13 AM
What exactly am I doing? And who is "you guys"? Did you skip reading comprehension day?
YOU....are one of THEM!

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

PotatoChip
03-11-2017, 12:04 PM
I can't even with these people anymore.
Back to your regularly scheduled ALPA brainwashing.

captjns
03-11-2017, 05:33 PM
I won't call you a scab Because what you guys are doing is worse than being a scab.


If you have the ability, which some may question, with some form of intelligence, defend your statement.

NEDude
03-11-2017, 05:33 PM
YOU....are one of THEM!

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for ALPA members.

What part of "I do not work for Norwegian" is hard for you to understand?

Boeing314
03-13-2017, 12:14 PM
So OSM aviation offers no 401k or retirement program?

Grumble
03-13-2017, 01:53 PM
So OSM aviation offers no 401k or retirement program?

Ha! You're assuming you'll be there long enough to call it a career? Why do you think it's on a revolving contract? Hint, to whipsaw you against new applicants.

Then, when you're fed up and decide to find somewhere better, hopefully there will still be somewhere better to go. That is assuming they even answer your call.

The Dominican
03-14-2017, 02:47 AM
Ha! You're assuming you'll be there long enough to call it a career? Why do you think it's on a revolving contract? Hint, to whipsaw you against new applicants.

Then, when you're fed up and decide to find somewhere better, hopefully there will still be somewhere better to go. That is assuming they even answer your call.

And your assuming that you will be at your major for your entire career? How fast people forget:rolleyes:

It's all a gamble in this business compadre!

Jaded N Cynical
03-15-2017, 06:00 AM
And your assuming that you will be at your major for your entire career? How fast people forget:rolleyes:

It's all a gamble in this business compadre!

Some of us have been at multiple US MAJOR Airlines. I never had to leave the country, pay a training bond, or sell myself out by having to accept sub-standard pay and working conditions.

captjns
03-15-2017, 06:51 AM
Some of us have been at multiple US MAJOR Airlines. I never had to leave the country, pay a training bond, or sell myself out by having to accept sub-standard pay and working conditions.

Well good for your! Pour yourself a glass of cognac and have a breadstick and give yourself a pat on the back.

I've been an expat for 25 years at quite 4 different carriers in 4 different countries. I've never signed a training bond, nor settled for substandard wages. I guess I'm an educated consumer as they say. Food on the table, mortgage, and tuitions paid. Sure a lot better than the alternatives during the down times in the U.S.

Jaded N Cynical
03-15-2017, 08:49 AM
Well good for your! Pour yourself a glass of cognac and have a breadstick and give yourself a pat on the back.

I've been an expat for 25 years at quite 4 different carriers in 4 different countries. I've never signed a training bond, nor settled for substandard wages. I guess I'm an educated consumer as they say. Food on the table, mortgage, and tuitions paid. Sure a lot better than the alternatives during the down times in the U.S.


How's the retirement benefits at those expat havens you describe? Anyone can turn a career job into a vagabond existence "to put food on the table"

tomgoodman
03-15-2017, 11:10 AM
If you do pass the Norwegian interview, there is a sim check...:D

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-olfRqAeisjA/UNNn6c-J0bI/AAAAAAAAXmM/pT0bemV5gxI/s1600/Waldemar+viking+helmet.JPG

PotatoChip
03-15-2017, 11:13 AM
How's the retirement benefits at those expat havens you describe? Anyone can turn a career job into a vagabond existence "to put food on the table"



What?? You sound very naive. I don't intend for that to sound mean.
I've worked an expat contract job with automatic contract renewal, 14% guaranteed 401K, and very adequate pay. I surely didn't sell myself out by going there.
There were at least 10-20 pilots at the company who were furloughed/laid off Delta, United and AA guys. One AA guy recently went back, two of the DL guys gave up their recall rights and decided to stay.
Where were you in 1999-2009? Honestly asking, because for a lot of pilots, expat jobs were the best place to go, and they were good jobs at that.
There was none of this "vagabond" existence you speak of. You clearly do not understand a lot of the expat market.

Typhoonpilot
03-15-2017, 11:16 AM
How's the retirement benefits at those expat havens you describe? Anyone can turn a career job into a vagabond existence "to put food on the table"



I've really pulled back from posting here because of the naïve and uninformed drivel that come from so many U.S. pilots. Many of whom seem to have very limited experience and knowledge of the history of airlines/labor in the USA in the last 30 years.

Why do you want to make it an us versus them debate when discussing things like this?

A lot of major airline pilots were adversely affected by the RJ revolution; 9-11; the economic downturn; the change to age 65 retirement; lost pensions; etc. Some chose to resurrect their career overseas in expat jobs and many have done quite well for themselves.

Not everyone has the golden career at a major that some lucky few do. Many on here are going to be in for a rude awakening one day when the inevitable next downturn occurs. I don't wish for it to happen and I hope it doesn't happen for a long time, but history has proven time and time again that it will.

captjns
03-15-2017, 02:58 PM
How's the retirement benefits at those expat havens you describe? Anyone can turn a career job into a vagabond existence "to put food on the table"




It's called contract negotiations. I don't have to rely on an agent, or disinterested third party administrator to do my negotiating.

You need to define "Vagabond Existence". Does having a home and car where I was living meet the means test of a 'Vagabond Existence"?

Jaded N Cynical
03-16-2017, 10:07 AM
Stringing along 3 year contracts, moving from job to job, Living in foreign countries trying to raise a family, hoping they renew your contract doesn't sound like a good career to me. If you have made it work for you, great. The reality is some CAN'T get hired by US major airlines. (Norwegian fodder).

I'll reiterate. If you apply to Norwegian, you are selling yourself out for sub-standard pay and working conditions. It's a semi-permanent job until they really get the flag of convenience scheme rolling.. US major airlines are hiring, why would you settle for less?

PotatoChip
03-16-2017, 12:14 PM
Stringing along 3 year contracts, moving from job to job, Living in foreign countries trying to raise a family, hoping they renew your contract doesn't sound like a good career to me. If you have made it work for you, great. The reality is some CAN'T get hired by US major airlines. (Norwegian fodder).

I'll reiterate. If you apply to Norwegian, you are selling yourself out for sub-standard pay and working conditions. It's a semi-permanent job until they really get the flag of convenience scheme rolling.. US major airlines are hiring, why would you settle for less?

Just don't lob all expat contracts in with this one.

However, You still don't get it.
First of all, you assume living in a foreign country is a bad thing, for many it's an amazing opportunity. The contracts ARE NOT STRUNG ALONG. There are reasons it is a contract, and there are reasons for the lengths, but quite frankly I don't have the patience to make you understand it. And again, Who is moving from job to job? There are plenty of contracts that guys are retiring from. And are you suggesting that at the majors guys don't move from job to job? Really? Again, you seem very undereducated in your knowledge of the history of the industry. Staying in the United States does not guarantee that you won't move from job to job to job. There are no guaranteed permanent jobs.

NEDude
03-17-2017, 08:35 AM
Stringing along 3 year contracts, moving from job to job, Living in foreign countries trying to raise a family, hoping they renew your contract doesn't sound like a good career to me. If you have made it work for you, great. The reality is some CAN'T get hired by US major airlines. (Norwegian fodder).

I'll reiterate. If you apply to Norwegian, you are selling yourself out for sub-standard pay and working conditions. It's a semi-permanent job until they really get the flag of convenience scheme rolling.. US major airlines are hiring, why would you settle for less?

Have you ever been outside the United States? What is so bad about foreign countries?! There are many wonderful places in this world to call home. Some people leave the United States find a place that works for them and decide they never want to come back.

I know plenty of guys who have made a very nice living in the contract world. Some of the guys I knew in China were on their third three year contract, and one guy I met was on his fourth (he was the longest tenured foreign contract pilot in China). There was never any worry about whether the contract would be renewed among the guys I knew. There are plenty of ways to make a career out of aviation. Some people like to try a variety of different things, others find their niche and are comfortable staying there.

Grumble
03-18-2017, 02:29 AM
Well good for your! Pour yourself a glass of cognac and have a breadstick and give yourself a pat on the back.

I've been an expat for 25 years at quite 4 different carriers in 4 different countries. I've never signed a training bond, nor settled for substandard wages. I guess I'm an educated consumer as they say. Food on the table, mortgage, and tuitions paid. Sure a lot better than the alternatives during the down times in the U.S.

Don't you work for Ryanair?!? You guys have to pay for your own recurrent training for God sakes! Never settled?!?

Jaded N Cynical
03-18-2017, 06:31 AM
Have you ever been outside the United States? What is so bad about foreign countries?! There are many wonderful places in this world to call home. Some people leave the United States find a place that works for them and decide they never want to come back.

I know plenty of guys who have made a very nice living in the contract world. Some of the guys I knew in China were on their third three year contract, and one guy I met was on his fourth (he was the longest tenured foreign contract pilot in China). There was never any worry about whether the contract would be renewed among the guys I knew. There are plenty of ways to make a career out of aviation. Some people like to try a variety of different things, others find their niche and are comfortable staying there.

I'm in my 30th year as airline pilot, and have left the country more than a few times. Personally I don't enjoy International travel, I like the USA.


4 contracts is the longest tenure? 12 whole years? Better not raise any objections to the company policy, or you'll probably be sent packing on that next renewal.

You stay in China flying with 300 hour nationals you get to baby sit from the left seat. Enjoy the pollution. I'll raise a family in the best country in the world.

captjns
03-18-2017, 06:54 AM
Don't you work for Ryanair?!? You guys have to pay for your own recurrent training for God sakes! Never settled?!?

Wow, you are the drama queen.

Like myself, there are pilots who negotiated their individual contracts with the same agency. Agencie have boiler plate contracts which they prefer their clients to sign. I had a simple excel spread sheat to ensure to keep track of my pay. I sent the spread sheet to the agency the evening of the last day of the month with details, as I was paid when I worked out of base, trained, and checked. That's the business part of being a contractor... Keep track of hours worked, pay credits, and amounts due when funds are paid.

To this day, its essential, the art of negotiating must equal one's skill set they are leasing. I use the term leasing, because a contract, generally speaking, is on with a dates of commencement, and maturation. There is a business side to being contractor, be it a pilot, plumber, electrician. Taxes, benefits, retirement, etal. I do not need, nor want any disinterested third party representative negotiating any issue, not limited to, my career, quality of life, basing, travel between home and work, compensation, benefits, retirement, or basing.

Any way back to FR.... Settled? Hardly. I did have to pay for my accommodations and food during initial training, three weeks. In the scheme of things it was an investment. I earned an EASA née JAR license. Yeah, I had to pay some $110 U.S. for each of the 14 exams I was required to write. Quite a bit more expensive to obtain on one's nickel. Any way, I digressed, again. My tenure at FR afforded me a 4 1/2 year working vacation throughout Europe. Come to think of it, all my contract work overseas have been working vacations.

I don't criticize those who prefer not to travel overseas, even if their seniority numbers afforded them to do so.

Although Grumble, after FR, I vowed never to work for a carrier sans business class or better. Now that would be settling.;)

NEDude
03-18-2017, 07:50 AM
I'm in my 30th year as airline pilot, and have left the country more than a few times. Personally I don't enjoy International travel, I like the USA.


4 contracts is the longest tenure? 12 whole years? Better not raise any objections to the company policy, or you'll probably be sent packing on that next renewal.

You stay in China flying with 300 hour nationals you get to baby sit from the left seat. Enjoy the pollution. I'll raise a family in the best country in the world.

I am not in China, just did one contract there. So nice try...

I have been furloughed from 3 "permanent", union jobs in the States, and was the plug on a fourth round of furloughs. In fact I have only resigned from two of my jobs in aviation. So don't lecture me about the stability and longevity of an aviation career in the States.

What is the definition of "best country"? By what standard are you making that statement?

Cazadores
03-18-2017, 09:16 AM
Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for ALPA members.

What part of "I do not work for Norwegian" is hard for you to understand?
Not an ALPA member. Never been in a union.

But your incapacity to perceive nuance tells me a lot, considering I was making subtle jab at your detractors.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

NEDude
03-18-2017, 02:19 PM
Not an ALPA member. Never been in a union.

But your incapacity to perceive nuance tells me a lot, considering I was making subtle jab at your detractors.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Nuance is hard to perceive on internet message boards.

Typhoonpilot
03-19-2017, 06:41 PM
I'll raise a family in the best country in the world.

You're moving to New Zealand? ;)

JohnBurke
03-19-2017, 07:31 PM
Some of us have been at multiple US MAJOR Airlines. I never had to leave the country, pay a training bond, or sell myself out by having to accept sub-standard pay and working conditions.

Don't let that golden spoon fall from your lips and hurt your toe. Don't choke on it while holding your nose so high in the air, either.

Jaded N Cynical
03-20-2017, 09:28 AM
Don't let that golden spoon fall from your lips and hurt your toe. Don't choke on it while holding your nose so high in the air, either.

Yeah, it was all handed to me. I just had to show up.

cactusmike
03-20-2017, 10:40 AM
You're moving to New Zealand? ;)

Norway. That's the happiest country on earth, straight off BBC News.


Norway is the happiest place on Earth, according to a United Nations agency report - toppling neighbour Denmark from the number one position.
The World Happiness Report measures "subjective well-being" - how happy the people are, and why.
Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland and and Finland round out the top five, while the Central African Republic came last.
Western Europe and North America dominated the top of table, with the US and UK at 14th and 19th, respectively.
Countries in sub-Saharan Africa and those hit by conflict have predictably low scores. Syria placed 152 of 155 countries - Yemen and South Sudan, which are facing impending famine, came in at 146 and 147.
The World Happiness Report was released to coincide with the United Nations' International Day of Happiness on 20 March.
It mainly relies on asking a simple, subjective question of more than 1,000 people every year in more than 150 countries.
"Imagine a ladder, with steps numbered from 0 at the bottom to 10 at the top," the question asks.
"The top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. On which step of the ladder would you say you personally feel you stand at this time?"
The average result is the country's score - ranging from Norway's 7.54 to the Central African Republic's 2.69. But the report also tries to analyse statistics to explain why one country is happier than another.
It looks at factors including economic strength (measured in GDP per capita), social support, life expectancy, freedom of choice, generosity, and perceived corruption.

This year's report also contains a chapter titled "restoring American happiness", which examines why happiness levels in the United States are falling, despite constantly-increasing economic improvement.
"The United States can and should raise happiness by addressing America's multi-faceted social crisis - rising inequality, corruption, isolation, and distrust - rather than focusing exclusively or even mainly on economic growth," the authors said.
"America's crisis is, in short, a social crisis, not an economic crisis."
Jeffrey Sachs, the director of the Sustainable Development Solutions Network, which published the report, said President Donald Trump's policies were likely to make things worse.
"They are all aimed at increasing inequality - tax cuts at the top, throwing people off the healthcare rolls, cutting Meals on Wheels in order to raise military spending. I think everything that has been proposed goes in the wrong direction," he told Reuters.

The report also suggests that professional "white collar" jobs are associated with improved happiness over "blue collar" roles - but that having a job at all is one of the biggest factors.
And while "those in well-paying jobs are happier and more satisfied with their lives", that effect has diminishing returns - "an extra $100 of salary is worth much more to someone at the lower end of the income distribution than someone already earning much more

The report has been published for the past five years, during which the Nordic countries have consistently dominated the top spots.
The clear dominance of those countries - and Denmark in particular - has encouraged other nations to adopt the Danish concept of "Hygge" - a cultural concept of cosiness and relaxation.

PotatoChip
03-20-2017, 11:49 AM
^^^But a pint is about €12!!!

The Dominican
03-20-2017, 04:06 PM
^^^But a pint is about €12!!!

With the eye candy around that place....., it's worth it :D

PotatoChip
03-20-2017, 04:18 PM
With the eye candy around that place....., it's worth it :D


Lol. Yeah, I guess you wouldn't need as many beers to make them attractive. You're actually saving money!

jowong1
05-10-2017, 09:44 PM
So back to the op's question....anyone got an interview? On 737 or 787? Care to share experience and result?

WesternSkies
05-10-2017, 09:52 PM
No .

NEDude
05-11-2017, 07:21 AM
So back to the op's question....anyone got an interview? On 737 or 787? Care to share experience and result?

I'll bite. I interviewed with Norwegian last summer before I took the job with WOW Air. I am not sure if the process for the U.S. contracts is same for the European based contracts. I live in Europe and have dual U.S. and E.U. citizenship.

The interview was at the Thales/L3 sim center in Crawley, next to LGW. An hour long orientation that started at 0700. At 0800 we were sent into the pilot lounge at the sim center and then they called us out two at a time for the sim evaluation, and one at a time for the two on one interview. The sim eval was set up so you would be PF, with another guy as PM. After your turn as PF, you would move to the right seat and be PM for a new guy coming in. So the PF had no idea of what to expect. Basically it was a simple PC type profile. I am an Airbus guy and did not have too much trouble with the 737 sim.

The two on one interview was a very basic tell me about yourself type. They asked about my experience, experience with bad FOs and good FOs. Things I have learned in my career. What destinations would I pick for Norwegian. Friendly and straight forward.

They offered me the job but decided I did not want to go through the process of securing a bank guarantee. As an Airbus guy it would have been €40,000 for me.

Hopefully that helps. You will get a lot of negative comments on here, but just realise that just about every new airline over the past 15 years has been trashed on these forums, and the pilots have been accused of being scabs. In the end nobody will care in a few years. When I got furloughed from Mesa in September 2001, I got the offer to go to Freedom Air, which was the target of pilot forum wrath back then. I turned down the offer thinking the threats of being blacklisted for my career would be real. Five years later nobody even remembered Freedom Air (and I know several former Freedom pilots who are at Delta, United and American), and GoJet had taken over as public enemy number 1 on the forums. Not too long after that, Virgin America and their pilots were the target of pilot forum scorn and nobody cared about GoJet. The same thing will be true with Norwegian (yeah, yeah, yeah - awaiting the trolls who say that they will NEVER forget about Norwegian...). If it works for you, and you are not crossing a picket line (NEVER do that), don't worry about what some folks say on an internet forum.

Das Auto
05-13-2017, 04:18 PM
I'll bite. I interviewed with Norwegian last summer before I took the job with WOW Air. I am not sure if the process for the U.S. contracts is same for the European based contracts. I live in Europe and have dual U.S. and E.U. citizenship.

The interview was at the Thales/L3 sim center in Crawley, next to LGW. An hour long orientation that started at 0700. At 0800 we were sent into the pilot lounge at the sim center and then they called us out two at a time for the sim evaluation, and one at a time for the two on one interview. The sim eval was set up so you would be PF, with another guy as PM. After your turn as PF, you would move to the right seat and be PM for a new guy coming in. So the PF had no idea of what to expect. Basically it was a simple PC type profile. I am an Airbus guy and did not have too much trouble with the 737 sim.

The two on one interview was a very basic tell me about yourself type. They asked about my experience, experience with bad FOs and good FOs. Things I have learned in my career. What destinations would I pick for Norwegian. Friendly and straight forward.

They offered me the job but decided I did not want to go through the process of securing a bank guarantee. As an Airbus guy it would have been €40,000 for me.

Hopefully that helps. You will get a lot of negative comments on here, but just realise that just about every new airline over the past 15 years has been trashed on these forums, and the pilots have been accused of being scabs. In the end nobody will care in a few years. When I got furloughed from Mesa in September 2001, I got the offer to go to Freedom Air, which was the target of pilot forum wrath back then. I turned down the offer thinking the threats of being blacklisted for my career would be real. Five years later nobody even remembered Freedom Air (and I know several former Freedom pilots who are at Delta, United and American), and GoJet had taken over as public enemy number 1 on the forums. Not too long after that, Virgin America and their pilots were the target of pilot forum scorn and nobody cared about GoJet. The same thing will be true with Norwegian (yeah, yeah, yeah - awaiting the trolls who say that they will NEVER forget about Norwegian...). If it works for you, and you are not crossing a picket line (NEVER do that), don't worry about what some folks say on an internet forum.

What was the online assessment / test all about?

MD11
05-15-2017, 05:52 AM
I interviewed with Norwegian last summer before I took the job with WOW Air.

I think that would be a fantastic job. Being an American with only an ATP, I'm locked out. Norwegian would be a good second option though.

Beretta01
05-22-2017, 12:15 PM
This thread is disgusting. Wake up guys.

PotatoChip
05-22-2017, 02:32 PM
This thread is disgusting. Wake up guys.

Thanks for that thought provoking input.

WHACKMASTER
05-22-2017, 10:23 PM
Thanks for that thought provoking input.

There's a lot of us that would agree with him. Thought provoking or not :rolleyes:

NEDude
05-23-2017, 12:37 AM
There's a lot of us that would agree with him. Thought provoking or not :rolleyes:

There are a lot of us who think those who contributed to Delta pilots losing 30% of their pay have no place to cast stones at others :rolleyes:

skysailor
05-23-2017, 02:15 AM
If you do pass the Norwegian interview, there is a sim check...:D

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-olfRqAeisjA/UNNn6c-J0bI/AAAAAAAAXmM/pT0bemV5gxI/s1600/Waldemar+viking+helmet.JPG


Good One!! hahahaha!

Das Auto
05-23-2017, 04:49 AM
If you do pass the Norwegian interview, there is a sim check...:D

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-olfRqAeisjA/UNNn6c-J0bI/AAAAAAAAXmM/pT0bemV5gxI/s1600/Waldemar+viking+helmet.JPG

I'm assuming the guy sat in the middle is on the 787, everyone else on the 737!

captjns
05-23-2017, 05:09 AM
I'm assuming the guy sat in the middle is on the 787, everyone else on the 737!

Nah... the guy in the middle is the check airman conducting a line check.

WHACKMASTER
05-23-2017, 07:31 AM
There are a lot of us who think those who contributed to Delta pilots losing 30% of their pay have no place to cast stones at others :rolleyes:

Says the guy who's now flying for a carrier that's killing trans-Atlantic yields for Delta specifically. How much less is your compensation than Delta pilots' now? 50% at least? You're not putting downward pressure on those pilots at a time when the well paying jobs are out there to be pursued UNLIKE DURING THE LOST DECADE? Weren't you at Mesa? :rolleyes:


GMAFB pal

NEDude
05-23-2017, 08:17 AM
Says the guy who's now flying for a carrier that's killing trans-Atlantic yields for Delta specifically. How much less is your compensation than Delta pilots' now? 50% at least? You're not putting downward pressure on those pilots at a time when the well paying jobs are out there to be pursued UNLIKE DURING THE LOST DECADE? Weren't you at Mesa? :rolleyes:


GMAFB pal

I am not the one grandstanding about dragging the industry down. You are. That is the big difference between you and I. You have done it and have the nerve to get up on your soapbox and lecture others as if you are a saint. Should I send you that link for the reading material again?

WHACKMASTER
05-23-2017, 09:48 AM
I am not the one grandstanding about dragging the industry down. You are. That is the big difference between you and I. You have done it and have the nerve to get up on your soapbox and lecture others as if you are a saint. Should I send you that link for the reading material again?

Again, at the risk of tooting my own horn to prove a point, I've done a lot more to forward the profession through years of aggressive union work than the average line pilot has, such as being on an extended strike. This also includes being one of a small minority at AirTran that was "flying the contract" during negotiations. Several in that small minority turned into hostages and got canned for it. The only reason I didn't was because we got the FAA involved with photographic evidence of my legitimate maintenance write-ups before the company dropped the ax on me as well.

So you won't be shaming me into feeling guilty about my career decisions. Many Regional pilots went to the ME3 in the aftermath of 9/11 and many like me went to an LCC. There were no great jobs back then. Only some that were better than where you were at the present time (which coming from Mesa you should understand).

You're the one defending the practice of taking a B787 job paying 110K and working 20 days a month with a 40K training bond while there are many far better jobs out there (which did not exist in the aftermath of 9/11). It's a different landscape now.

As one recent poster described this thread, it's disgusting when a B787 cptn is making what an RJ cptn is AND they had to pay 30-40K for the job.

We're going around in circles so I'm done with you. Good day....

NEDude
05-23-2017, 11:00 AM
Again, at the risk of tooting my own horn to prove a point, I've done a lot more to forward the profession through years of aggressive union work than the average line pilot has, such as being on an extended strike. This also includes being one of a small minority at AirTran that was "flying the contract" during negotiations. Several in that small minority turned into hostages and got canned for it. The only reason I didn't was because we got the FAA involved with photographic evidence of my legitimate maintenance write-ups before the company dropped the ax on me as well.

So you won't be shaming me into feeling guilty about my career decisions. Many Regional pilots went to the ME3 in the aftermath of 9/11 and many like me went to an LCC. There were no great jobs back then. Only some that were better than where you were at the present time (which coming from Mesa you should understand).

You're the one defending the practice of taking a B787 job paying 110K and working 20 days a month with a 40K training bond while there are many far better jobs out there (which did not exist in the aftermath of 9/11). It's a different landscape now.

As one recent poster described this thread, it's disgusting when a B787 cptn is making what an RJ cptn is AND they had to pay 30-40K for the job.

We're going around in circles so I'm done with you. Good day....

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better. You could have done what many of the rest of us did and do something else until the job market recovered. I am not on here now trying to justify and make excuses for my actions while talking down to others who may considering doing the same thing. I am sure the Delta pilots who lost all that money feel much better knowing you were "flying the contract" while under negotiations at AirTran :rolleyes:

got2fly
05-25-2017, 03:00 AM
Again, at the risk of tooting my own horn to prove a point, I've done a lot more to forward the profession through years of aggressive union work than the average line pilot has, such as being on an extended strike. This also includes being one of a small minority at AirTran that was "flying the contract" during negotiations. Several in that small minority turned into hostages and got canned for it. The only reason I didn't was because we got the FAA involved with photographic evidence of my legitimate maintenance write-ups before the company dropped the ax on me as well.

So you won't be shaming me into feeling guilty about my career decisions. Many Regional pilots went to the ME3 in the aftermath of 9/11 and many like me went to an LCC. There were no great jobs back then. Only some that were better than where you were at the present time (which coming from Mesa you should understand).

You're the one defending the practice of taking a B787 job paying 110K and working 20 days a month with a 40K training bond while there are many far better jobs out there (which did not exist in the aftermath of 9/11). It's a different landscape now.

As one recent poster described this thread, it's disgusting when a B787 cptn is making what an RJ cptn is AND they had to pay 30-40K for the job.

We're going around in circles so I'm done with you. Good day....
If this is the right job for someone else, why would you care? It is not all about money. This is not for me, but obviously it works for some people. I think other pilots are smart enough to make their own decisions without your help.

wiz5422
05-25-2017, 04:45 PM
. When I got furloughed from Mesa in September 2001, I got the offer to go to Freedom Air,

Wow you really pick the cream of the crop.......you value your self as a pilot yet?

NEDude
05-25-2017, 08:19 PM
Wow you really pick the cream of the crop.......you value your self as a pilot yet?

I have enjoyed my career, made good money, and seen many parts of the world. I am licensed in four different countries and worked with crew members from countless cultures and backgrounds. I am quite happy with everything I have seen and done and my self worth is not determined by the opinions of anonymous posters on an internet message board. You can try again if you wish...

757HI
05-26-2017, 11:08 AM
For what it's worth, I told them thanks, but no thanks. I wasn't interested in a 3-year non-compete bond.

They were very nice in their response and wished me luck.

Delta has a very fast upgrade. I believe the quickest of the Legacies.

If you are a mil pilot, apply, do whatever interview prep you can get your hands on, practice, and go forth as a Delta pilot.

Start networking. I bet you know someone that works there. Comb through your squadron rosters and start contacting everyone you can find, get that Delta recommendation letter.

If you are 55 or younger, you will have an absolutely fantastic airline career.

wiz5422
05-26-2017, 08:59 PM
I have enjoyed my career, made good money, and seen many parts of the world. I am licensed in four different countries and worked with crew members from countless cultures and backgrounds. I am quite happy with everything I have seen and done and my self worth is not determined by the opinions of anonymous posters on an internet message board. You can try again if you wish...


All while selling yourself short..... please for God sake and the rest of us have a little more self worth so not to be part of what is brining down this industry. Please pick airlines that at least pay what you are worth. For god sake you are a commercial rated airline pilot, only about 1%of the world population can say that so demand to be paid as such.

NEDude
05-27-2017, 02:27 AM
All while selling yourself short..... please for God sake and the rest of us have a little more self worth so not to be part of what is brining down this industry. Please pick airlines that at least pay what you are worth. For god sake you are a commercial rated airline pilot, only about 1%of the world population can say that so demand to be paid as such.

My self worth is not determined by a paycheck. And as I do not live or work in the United States, I do not look at the U.S. pilot market as a determination for what I should be paid in relation to my experience.

As for "bringing down this industry", what planet have you been living on the past five years?!

captjns
05-27-2017, 10:53 AM
All while selling yourself short..... please for God sake and the rest of us have a little more self worth so not to be part of what is brining down this industry. Please pick airlines that at least pay what you are worth. For god sake you are a commercial rated airline pilot, only about 1%of the world population can say that so demand to be paid as such.

Could you please share your airline job history from the regionals to the majors?

I can only laugh at those who worked for a regional earning less than food stamp wages. Even worse those who stand in judgement did absolutely nothing to raise the so-called bar of respectability. That group... yes that group is responsible for pimping themselves out climbing over the next guy to get that $20.00 an hour job flying a regional. What was the incentive to raise the terms and conditions when you had the eager junior birdman willing to work for free. I mean why in the world should I have respected an individual who had no respect for themselves?

I have to say my favourite chest beating statement from the ignorant "I'll never permit a NAI crewmember on my jumpseat.". Given the fact that the NAI crewmember is operating on an EASA certificate or validation, they're exempt.

Now as for NAI... it should be no skin off of anyone's back who chooses to fly for them or not for that matter. Given the fact that NAI is operating on a foreign AOC, it's none of anyone's business who chooses to fly for them. Legacy pilots should look towards their own companies to quit outsourcing routes in the name of code sharing.

Xtreme87
05-27-2017, 03:21 PM
Norwegian lost $245 million in the first quarter of this year. Pretty sure we won't have to worry about them for too much longer.

NEDude
05-27-2017, 06:53 PM
Norwegian lost $245 million in the first quarter of this year. Pretty sure we won't have to worry about them for too much longer.

Perhaps. But I remember people predicting the demise of Virgin America during the losses of 2009-2011. But here we are, several years down the road, and Virgin America is twice the size they were in 2010, and is being merged into Alaska. The VX pilots still have their jobs.

Anyway, that is the way the industry goes. If their business plan is solid, they will survive. If it is not solid, they will not. But none of that changes the fact that ALPAs campaign is full of misinformation, pilots have every right to go there, and as long they are not crossing a picket line, it is nobody's business if a person chooses to give it a try. And if you are someone who has flown RJs, flown for an LCC, or had your wages used as justification to cut another pilot groups by more than 30%, even if you "flew the contract", you have no grounds to cast stones at guys who feel that Norwegian may be a good fit for them.

contrails
05-27-2017, 08:33 PM
you have no grounds to cast stones at guys who feel that Norwegian may be a good fit for them.

Actually, the way it works is, anybody can cast stones at anyone they want.

Most people who work for a competitor of an illegal operation cast stones at the illegal operation.

captjns
05-27-2017, 08:57 PM
Actually, the way it works is, anybody can cast stones at anyone they want.

Most people who work for a competitor of an illegal operation cast stones at the illegal operation.

I've alway found it amusing when people practice law wihtout a license... especially when they are clueless about the law.

The Dominican
05-27-2017, 09:36 PM
I remember when Fedex and SWA were "Setting the new low" in the Industry.:rolleyes:

Typhoonpilot
05-27-2017, 10:13 PM
I remember when Fedex and SWA were "Setting the new low" in the Industry.:rolleyes:


You mean SWA, the original PFT outfit? Who also merged with ValuJet, another outfit that was originally PFT when they started?

The Dominican
05-27-2017, 11:42 PM
You mean SWA, the original PFT outfit? Who also merged with ValuJet, another outfit that was originally PFT when they started?

Yeah...., Where the laser pointer was pointed at the time, all to distract you from mergers and Outsourcing....! except that today it is all about buying stock into foreign airlines that pay less than a third what NAI pays their pilots, but of course, we are still following the laser pointer because if there is anything constant in the aviation industry...., is that pilots are stupid:rolleyes:

NEDude
05-28-2017, 04:14 AM
Actually, the way it works is, anybody can cast stones at anyone they want.

Most people who work for a competitor of an illegal operation cast stones at the illegal operation.

But Norwegian is not an illegal operation. It is 100% legal and everything it is doing has been done by other airlines. Other airlines have subsidiaries in other countries (I have named numerous examples). Other airlines use contract pilots through agencies based in other countries (again, I have named numerous examples). Norwegian is, as The Dominican puts it, where the laser is pointed at right now. ALPAs deny NAI campaign is full of wrong and misleading information that you can EASILY discover for yourself. The problem is most pilots would rather just be angry than actually find out what is actually happening.

My own opinion is that ALPA needed a new enemy. With all the mergers, the recent financial success of the major airlines, the increases in terms and conditions across the board, the securing the representation of the pilots at JetBlue and Virgin America, and FAR 117, ALPA had no place to point the laser to rally the troops and keep the PAC money and other donations flowing in. Norwegian became the easy target as they were a new, somewhat higher profile, foreign entry into the U.S. market, and were doing things differently than the U.S. airlines, even though it was not different than what other European and Asian airlines were doing.

Das Auto
05-28-2017, 07:49 AM
So, anyone get a Norwegian interview?

Varsity
05-28-2017, 03:26 PM
Perhaps. But I remember people predicting the demise of Virgin America during the losses of 2009-2011. But here we are, several years down the road, and Virgin America is twice the size they were in 2010, and is being merged into Alaska. The VX pilots still have their jobs.

Anyway, that is the way the industry goes. If their business plan is solid, they will survive. If it is not solid, they will not. But none of that changes the fact that ALPAs campaign is full of misinformation, pilots have every right to go there, and as long they are not crossing a picket line, it is nobody's business if a person chooses to give it a try. And if you are someone who has flown RJs, flown for an LCC, or had your wages used as justification to cut another pilot groups by more than 30%, even if you "flew the contract", you have no grounds to cast stones at guys who feel that Norwegian may be a good fit for them.

For every Virgin America there are 10 Independence Air's, Skybus's, Aloha's, Song's, TED's, Midwest's, Vanguards Braniff's etc..

NEDude
05-29-2017, 11:19 PM
For every Virgin America there are 10 Independence Air's, Skybus's, Aloha's, Song's, TED's, Midwest's, Vanguards Braniff's etc..

Yep, that is the industry. But remember, there was a time when going to Pan Am or Eastern meant you had unbeatable job security.

In the end, so what. The operation is still legal and as long as a pilot is not crossing a picket line, they have every right to go there and give it a shot.

David Puddy
05-30-2017, 06:58 PM
So, anyone get a Norwegian interview?

I assume some pilots have been hired and trained because the operation is set to begin within the next 30 days from Stewart and PVD.

I wonder how many type-rated 737NG pilots from Miami Air, Swift, Sun Country and Xtrairways applied?

402DRVR
05-31-2017, 03:55 AM
So this is an honest question to attempt to better understand why this is legal? I have no interest in diving into the mud slinging of who is bringing down what industry, etc. etc. etc.

My understanding has always been that with very few exceptions a U.S. based airline is free to fly from the U.S. to a foreign country and then back to the U.S. An English company can fly to the U.S. and then back to England. But a U.S. company could not fly to London, and then offer new service say to Canada, or somewhere else. I do realize we used to do exactly this but I thought laws were changed that stopped such activity.

I know Iceland Air is operating flights from the U.S. to other places in Europe but having checked those, they are all through Iceland with layovers of varying lengths. So while they may share a flight number, a passenger is really buying a ticket to Iceland, and then an onwards ticket to someplace else. Sort of how an Londoner can buy a ticket from London, to Newark on United, and then EWR to SFO also on United.

But Norwegian seems to be doing something different. I could not go to New York, I think, and find BA selling tickets from JFK, direct to Rome or any country other than England or a country it owns. Why is it that Norwegian is allowed to do this? I do see them flying to different nations out of Fort Lauderdale. Of course they serve Norway, but they also serve Manchester directly. And now they will be doing Rome from EWR and I believe Barcelona from another U.S. city.

How is this legal for a carrier based in whatever country it has decided to be based in? Are they really setting up subsidiary carriers in each of those individual countries? If so, are U.S. airlines free to do so as well? Could there legally, and as easily, be a United (England) or a Delta (Italian)?

I guess I'm more concerned than the airlines are playing on a level playing field, at which point competition is fine, and its up to everyone to sell their best product.

Again not playing mud slinging, asking a real question.

NEDude
05-31-2017, 04:35 AM
So this is an honest question to attempt to better understand why this is legal? I have no interest in diving into the mud slinging of who is bringing down what industry, etc. etc. etc.

My understanding has always been that with very few exceptions a U.S. based airline is free to fly from the U.S. to a foreign country and then back to the U.S. An English company can fly to the U.S. and then back to England. But a U.S. company could not fly to London, and then offer new service say to Canada, or somewhere else. I do realize we used to do exactly this but I thought laws were changed that stopped such activity.

I know Iceland Air is operating flights from the U.S. to other places in Europe but having checked those, they are all through Iceland with layovers of varying lengths. So while they may share a flight number, a passenger is really buying a ticket to Iceland, and then an onwards ticket to someplace else. Sort of how an Londoner can buy a ticket from London, to Newark on United, and then EWR to SFO also on United.

But Norwegian seems to be doing something different. I could not go to New York, I think, and find BA selling tickets from JFK, direct to Rome or any country other than England or a country it owns. Why is it that Norwegian is allowed to do this? I do see them flying to different nations out of Fort Lauderdale. Of course they serve Norway, but they also serve Manchester directly. And now they will be doing Rome from EWR and I believe Barcelona from another U.S. city.

How is this legal for a carrier based in whatever country it has decided to be based in? Are they really setting up subsidiary carriers in each of those individual countries? If so, are U.S. airlines free to do so as well? Could there legally, and as easily, be a United (England) or a Delta (Italian)?

I guess I'm more concerned than the airlines are playing on a level playing field, at which point competition is fine, and its up to everyone to sell their best product.

Again not playing mud slinging, asking a real question.

The EU-US Open Skies Treaty, which includes Iceland and Norway, allows any US airline and any EU airline the rights to operate to and from any airport in either territory. You need to remember that the EU (and EEA which includes Iceland and Norway) is considered a single market. So the treaty is what makes it legal. And yes, you can buy tickets to and from the U.S. a country other than the UK on British Airways. BA operates to CDG via its subsidiary called Open Skies.

The other interesting thing to note is that BA is a subsidiary of IAG, which also owns Iberia, Aer Lingus, and Vueling. So you can fly from the United States to multiple European countries on subsidiaries of the IAG group. You can do the same thing on subsidiaries of the Lufthansa group - Lufthansa, Brussels Airlines, Austrian, Swiss and Eurowings. The biggest difference with Norwegian and their subsidiaries is that they have kept the name 'Norwegian' in all of them, and that has created the impression that what they are doing is different than other European airline consortiums in Europe. If Norwegian had called itself the Norwegian Airline group, and had as its subsidiaries Norwegian Air Shuttle, Irish Air International and UK Air, I doubt you would see the outrage you see right now. The precedent has been set by others, and the 'Open Skies' treaty allows them to fly to and from anywhere the want between the U.S. and Europe.

BTW - Norwegian has just announced Rome to Newark/Oakland/Los Angeles.

Makanakis
05-31-2017, 06:40 AM
Norwegian launches flights from Rome to the U.S. (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/norwegian-launches-flights-rome-u-s/)

Rome to U.S. flights!

Das Auto
05-31-2017, 07:24 AM
I assume some pilots have been hired and trained because the operation is set to begin within the next 30 days from Stewart and PVD.

I wonder how many type-rated 737NG pilots from Miami Air, Swift, Sun Country and Xtrairways applied?

True, but realistically they'd need to live relatively close to those airports considering Norwegian isn't in CASS. It would be interesting to hear from these guys but they'd no doubt be lambasted by some on this forum for being traitors etc.

Seven3Seven
05-31-2017, 09:55 AM
There will be a list. I assure you.

There is a list now for ALPA scabs. I checked it yesterday for a jumpseater and I don't even work at an ALPA carrier.

If you go to work for NAI in the US you may get lucky enough to work for a US carrier in the future.

But good luck commuting. We will make your life miserable.

captjns
05-31-2017, 01:36 PM
There will be a list. I assure you.

There is a list now for ALPA scabs. I checked it yesterday for a jumpseater and I don't even work at an ALPA carrier.

If you go to work for NAI in the US you may get lucky enough to work for a US carrier in the future.

But good luck commuting. We will make your life miserable.

And there you have it folks. Another typist of reason:rolleyes:

intrepidcv11
05-31-2017, 02:28 PM
True, but realistically they'd need to live relatively close to those airports considering Norwegian isn't in CASS. It would be interesting to hear from these guys but they'd no doubt be lambasted by some on this forum for being traitors etc.

Not a traitor, just a pathetic loser for signing this piece of excarment.

https://www.rishworthaviation.com/brief/o7c8gMIeJxNPzxqPhfgcI9Dxg5j8XeRZoFRtvIpG7bM~/JO1803.pdf

WHACKMASTER
05-31-2017, 03:37 PM
There will be a list. I assure you.

There is a list now for ALPA scabs. I checked it yesterday for a jumpseater and I don't even work at an ALPA carrier.

If you go to work for NAI in the US you may get lucky enough to work for a US carrier in the future.

But good luck commuting. We will make your life miserable.

And when you get wind of where one can find that list please be sure to share it with the rest of us.

NEDude
05-31-2017, 10:24 PM
There will be a list. I assure you.

There is a list now for ALPA scabs. I checked it yesterday for a jumpseater and I don't even work at an ALPA carrier.

If you go to work for NAI in the US you may get lucky enough to work for a US carrier in the future.

But good luck commuting. We will make your life miserable.

You mean that ALPA scab list that has had like five names added to it in the past 25 years?

Yes, you and the three other pilots in the world who actually go through the effort carry and check the ALPA scab list will now make a Norwegian list (just like the phantom Freedom Air and GoJet lists) and make life miserable for the few dozen (maybe) guys who go to Norwegian and later want a job with a U.S. airline. Holding my breath over that one...

NEDude
05-31-2017, 10:25 PM
And when you get wind of where one can find that list please be sure to share it with the rest of us.

And please pass along the Freedom and GoJets list as well. We have been eagerly awaiting those promised lists for over 15 years...:rolleyes:

Das Auto
06-01-2017, 07:21 AM
And when you get wind of where one can find that list please be sure to share it with the rest of us.

And what exactly would you do with such a list? Are you a recruiter for a major airline or are you just looking for people to cross off your Christmas card list?

badflaps
06-01-2017, 07:26 AM
And what exactly would you do with such a list? Are you a recruiter for a major airline or are you just looking for people to cross off your Christmas card list?

He is giving out buddy passes.

NEDude
06-01-2017, 08:16 AM
And what exactly would you do with such a list? Are you a recruiter for a major airline or are you just looking for people to cross off your Christmas card list?

He's going to do what everyone else does, nothing. I spent 14 years of my career commuting in the States. In all the times I requested a ride over those 14 years, I had someone pull out and check the scab list once. And that one time was three months in to my first year. Not once did I ever see a Freedom or a GoJets list. This is just another empty threat posted on an aviation forum by someone full of hot air.

Jaded N Cynical
06-01-2017, 09:02 AM
If they are applying at NAI, they already know they can't get hired at the US major airlines.

Seven3Seven
06-01-2017, 09:43 AM
You mean that ALPA scab list that has had like five names added to it in the past 25 years?

Yes, you and the three other pilots in the world who actually go through the effort carry and check the ALPA scab list will now make a Norwegian list (just like the phantom Freedom Air and GoJet lists) and make life miserable for the few dozen (maybe) guys who go to Norwegian and later want a job with a U.S. airline. Holding my breath over that one...


Yup. Still quite a few senior boys on the list still active. Kicked off a UA 747 pilot last year. We won't forget.

NEDude
06-01-2017, 10:07 AM
Yup. Still quite a few senior boys on the list still active. Kicked off a UA 747 pilot last year. We won't forget.

It seems to reason that this guy is a commuter if he was asking for a jumpseat. If he is a United/Continental guy, he scabbed over 30 years ago, either in 1983 or 1985. The fact that he has been at either Continental or United for over 30 years, and it is not an unreasonable assumption that he is a commuter, I would argue the assertion that his life is "miserable" is a bit of an overstatement.

As for kicking a guy off "last year", what is your rate of kicking guys off, once or twice a year at best? As I said, in my 14 years of commuting 3 to 5 times each month, I was checked once. That is a rate of about .15% if I am being generous, and an absolute 0% over the last 13 years and 8 months of my U.S. career. Also not once in my career as a first officer did I ever see a captain check the scab list at the three different ALPA carriers I worked for, and I have never even seen or heard of a Freedom or GoJets list. So again, I think you are grossly overestimating your effect.

captjns
06-01-2017, 07:53 PM
Yup. Still quite a few senior boys on the list still active. Kicked off a UA 747 pilot last year. We won't forget.

A UAL pilot? A bit overzealous with the keyboard I'd say. I'll throw the BS card onto the mat on this one.

NEDude
06-01-2017, 09:55 PM
A UAL pilot? A bit overzealous with the keyboard I'd say. I'll throw the BS card onto the mat on this one.

I think it is plausible. United scabs were from 1985, so 32 years ago. If a guy scabbed in his 20s or early 30s, he could still be active today. I just think when you combine the extremely low number of pilots who actually carry and check the scab list with the fact there have been five total scabs added to the list in the past 28 years, the chest thumping about making ones life "miserable" is an empty threat. Also the fact that there were many bombastic threats about blacklisting the guys who went to Freedom and GoJets, and those threats never materialised, the threats against guys who may be interested in Norwegian are empty threats as well. It is easy to get up on your pedestal and pound your chest on an internet message board. But history clearly shows that very few, if any, pilots will follow through with their message board promises.

Seven3Seven
06-02-2017, 05:41 AM
Hey the list is very easy to check on your phone.

You do your part to make this profession worse and I'll do my little part to make it better. Yup, that includes making a scab's life hard.

NEDude
06-02-2017, 06:24 AM
Hey the list is very easy to check on your phone.

You do your part to make this profession worse and I'll do my little part to make it better. Yup, that includes making a scab's life hard.

You are right, the scab list is very easy to check. I have no issues if someone does check it either. But the fact is very few people do check it and all but five pilots have been on the list at least 28 years. I would bet a large amount of money that the very few of the rest who are still active have long adjusted to life on the scab list, and the very rare denial of a jumpseat has little effect on their life. I seriously doubt their lives are "miserable".

There is also a huge difference between the very real and legitimate scab list, and the non-existent, but often threatened, blacklist of pilots who work for certain airlines. Empty threats just make you seem silly.

Chyna
06-02-2017, 06:43 AM
I flew for a 121 carrier , we would not hire any low life scab and the reason was that there was a clear and direct threat by ALPA carriers that any company that employs scabs in any capacity will be banned from ALPA carriers jumpseats .
Now days many of these lowest form of life find themselves employment at some shady S.B airlines management.
When ALPA carriers renew their threats and ban jumpseat privileges from companies that hires SCABS ,these low lives will be forced back to the sewers where they belong.

NEDude
06-02-2017, 07:55 AM
I flew for a 121 carrier , we would not hire any low life scab and the reason was that there was a clear and direct threat by ALPA carriers that any company that employs scabs in any capacity will be banned from ALPA carriers jumpseats .
Now days many of these lowest form of life find themselves employment at some shady S.B airlines management.
When ALPA carriers renew their threats and ban jumpseat privileges from companies that hires SCABS ,these low lives will be forced back to the sewers where they belong.

The majority of the scabs that are still flying are senior pilots at United and dues paying ALPA members.

feltf4
06-02-2017, 08:15 AM
Just for those that think this is bitter sweet. I made more money in the right seat of the 190 last month then they are offering 787 cappys.

Year two pay at a LCC....

food for thought before you tarnish you resume.

NEDude
06-02-2017, 10:17 AM
Just for those that think this is bitter sweet. I made more money in the right seat of the 190 last month then they are offering 787 cappys.

Year two pay at a LCC....

food for thought before you tarnish you resume.

Good grief, nobody is going to tarnish their resume by going to Norwegian. The only way to tarnish your resume is by actually scabbing, you know, crossing a picket line. Nobody tarnished their resume at Freedom Air or GoJets, and nobody will tarnish their resume by going to Norwegian. They may make less money than they could at another place, but that is a different story.

Chyna
06-02-2017, 03:30 PM
The majority of the scabs that are still flying are senior pilots at United and dues paying ALPA members.

And some are active chief pilots at SB freight outfits ...
ALPA collecting dues and allowing these UA scab pilots to be union members reflects real poorly on ALPA , these rats (no offence to the rats ) will scab again at the first opportunity and stick the knife deep in the backs of their colleagues..
Being a Scab is a decease , just like herpes is ..

Cruz Clearance
06-03-2017, 02:56 AM
I have to fly with scabs so I don't care about jumpseating with them. If Norwegian offers reciprocal jumpseat I don't give a toss but if they don't no fn way.

ZapBrannigan
06-03-2017, 03:00 AM
Good grief, nobody is going to tarnish their resume by going to Norwegian. The only way to tarnish your resume is by actually scabbing, you know, crossing a picket line. Nobody tarnished their resume at Freedom Air or GoJets, and nobody will tarnish their resume by going to Norwegian. They may make less money than they could at another place, but that is a different story.


Yup! They said the same thing about the 'Pay to Play' folks in the mid 90s. By that logic Everyone who went to Comair, Great Lakes, Chautauqua, Commutair, Continental Express, Pinnacle, Mesaba, etc... who had to pay $10,000 for their training should be on the street instead of in the cockpit. [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NEDude
06-03-2017, 05:02 AM
Yup! They said the same thing about the 'Pay to Play' folks in the mid 90s. By that logic Everyone who went to Comair, Great Lakes, Chautauqua, Commutair, Continental Express, Pinnacle, Mesaba, etc... who had to pay $10,000 for their training should be on the street instead of in the cockpit. [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, thanks for even more examples. Even the SWA guys were given crap because most of them bought a type rating in order get hired.

Packrat
06-03-2017, 06:13 AM
Yep, thanks for even more examples. Even the SWA guys were given crap because most of them bought a type rating in order get hired.

In my day you had to buy a type rating to get an interview at SWA.

joepilot
06-03-2017, 08:11 AM
And some are active chief pilots at SB freight outfits ...
ALPA collecting dues and allowing these UA scab pilots to be union members reflects real poorly on ALPA , these rats (no offence to the rats ) will scab again at the first opportunity and stick the knife deep in the backs of their colleagues..
Being a Scab is a decease , just like herpes is ..

History: During the Continental strike, the then active scab pilots decertified ALPA as their bargaining agent, and formed an in-house union. All the pilots were members of that union. When the Continental pilots union merged with ALPA in 2001, then all members of the Continental pilots union automatically became ALPA members, even if they had been previously been expelled for scabbing (federal labor law). This was a political decision by ALPA that I disagree with, but I wasn't asked for my opinion.

Joe

David Puddy
06-03-2017, 02:05 PM
If they are applying at NAI, they already know they can't get hired at the US major airlines.

Why not? Not trying to be funny or sarcastic. Logically, why wouldn't Delta or AA want to take resources away from NAI? It makes sense to hire qualified pilots away from your competitors - right?

captjns
06-04-2017, 06:03 AM
Why not? Not trying to be funny or sarcastic. Logically, why wouldn't Delta or AA want to take resources away from NAI? It makes sense to hire qualified pilots away from your competitors - right?

There are those who don't wish to subscribe to the Orwellian life.

Grumble
06-05-2017, 09:18 AM
There are those who don't wish to subscribe to the Orwellian life.

Yeah, Id much rather pay for my own recurrent sim time than make money and have any quality of life.

I think it is plausible. United scabs were from 1985, so 32 years ago. If a guy scabbed in his 20s or early 30s, he could still be active today. I just think when you combine the extremely low number of pilots who actually carry and check the scab list with the fact there have been five total scabs added to the list in the past 28 years, the chest thumping about making ones life "miserable" is an empty threat. Also the fact that there were many bombastic threats about blacklisting the guys who went to Freedom and GoJets, and those threats never materialised, the threats against guys who may be interested in Norwegian are empty threats as well. It is easy to get up on your pedestal and pound your chest on an internet message board. But history clearly shows that very few, if any, pilots will follow through with their message board promises.

Youve probably never been checked against the list because 1.) youre either too young to have scabbed or 2.) didnt exhibit SCAB behavior. Theyre pretty easy to spot and Ive had several captains deny them the JS. Most guys I know and fly with have the list with them, I keep it on my phone. NEVER forgive and NEVER forget. As youve pointed out, theyll do it again.

NAI will never get a JS agreement with the US carriers (unless they somehow manage to unionize, then maybe).. All the managements and unions are in agreement on the threat they pose. This isnt a go jets situation, nor is their business plan. GJ was just another bottom feeder regional to be whip sawed, NAI is a different situation all together. I seriously doubt ALPA/AWA/etc will even have to ask for any JS agreement to be denied.

WHACKMASTER
06-05-2017, 10:09 AM
Yeah, Id much rather pay for my own recurrent sim time than make money and have any quality of life.



Youve probably never been checked against the list because 1.) youre either too young to have scabbed or 2.) didnt exhibit SCAB behavior. Theyre pretty easy to spot and Ive had several captains deny them the JS. Most guys I know and fly with have the list with them, I keep it on my phone. NEVER forgive and NEVER forget. As youve pointed out, theyll do it again.

NAI will never get a JS agreement with the US carriers (unless they somehow manage to unionize, then maybe).. All the managements and unions are in agreement on the threat they pose. This isnt a go jets situation, nor is their business plan. GJ was just another bottom feeder regional to be whip sawed, NAI is a different situation all together. I seriously doubt ALPA/AWA/etc will even have to ask for any JS agreement to be denied.

Completely agree but you're wasting your keystrokes with these guys. They don't see anything wrong with the NAI business model/plan. :rolleyes:

intrepidcv11
06-05-2017, 02:47 PM
There are those who don't wish to subscribe to the Orwellian life.

Bro the best you flew a 737 around Europe for a place few consider top tier. As a yank I'm glad I was offered the blue pill. Odds are you never got that chance.

captjns
06-05-2017, 08:44 PM
Bro the best you flew a 737 around Europe for a place few consider top tier. As a yank I'm glad I was offered the blue pill. Odds are you never got that chance.

Blue pill? Not familiar with. Anyway intrepidcv11, I never considered FR top tier. However, it met my requirements as far a QOL was concerned... roster of 5/5. Two one block of 1 month off, two blocks of 2 weeks off, and the last 3 weeks of every March off as I timed out. Able to live in many European countries during my tenure.

I lived in Asia and Central America before Euroland and other countries after FR too. As an expat, I look beyond what the profession has to offer.

NEDude
06-06-2017, 09:21 AM
Completely agree but you're wasting your keystrokes with these guys. They don't see anything wrong with the NAI business model/plan. :rolleyes:

As long as you "fly the contract", everything is justified...

NEDude
06-06-2017, 09:26 AM
Yeah, Id much rather pay for my own recurrent sim time than make money and have any quality of life.



Youve probably never been checked against the list because 1.) youre either too young to have scabbed or 2.) didnt exhibit SCAB behavior. Theyre pretty easy to spot and Ive had several captains deny them the JS. Most guys I know and fly with have the list with them, I keep it on my phone. NEVER forgive and NEVER forget. As youve pointed out, theyll do it again.

NAI will never get a JS agreement with the US carriers (unless they somehow manage to unionize, then maybe).. All the managements and unions are in agreement on the threat they pose. This isnt a go jets situation, nor is their business plan. GJ was just another bottom feeder regional to be whip sawed, NAI is a different situation all together. I seriously doubt ALPA/AWA/etc will even have to ask for any JS agreement to be denied.

A little on the young side, but not by much.

The threats of no JS agreement are empty AND silly threats. NAI is a foreign carrier and not eligible for a traditional agreement. And as has been pointed out dozens of times, there is nothing NAI is doing that is not already done by many other carriers. ALPA just focused the laser pointer on NAI instead of one of the dozens of other airlines with AOCs in multiple countries and using a variety of different types of pilot contracts.

baseball
06-06-2017, 08:32 PM
In my day you had to buy a type rating to get an interview at SWA.
Thank God the industry is starting to recover to the point that isn't a requirement. Sure makes SWA trainining cheaper and faster for management.

Industry can further recover if we weed out airlines that don't play by the rules.

baseball
06-06-2017, 08:40 PM
But Norwegian is not an illegal operation. It is 100% legal and everything it is doing has been done by other airlines. Other airlines have subsidiaries in other countries (I have named numerous examples). Other airlines use contract pilots through agencies based in other countries (again, I have named numerous examples). Norwegian is, as The Dominican puts it, where the laser is pointed at right now. ALPAs deny NAI campaign is full of wrong and misleading information that you can EASILY discover for yourself. The problem is most pilots would rather just be angry than actually find out what is actually happening.

My own opinion is that ALPA needed a new enemy. With all the mergers, the recent financial success of the major airlines, the increases in terms and conditions across the board, the securing the representation of the pilots at JetBlue and Virgin America, and FAR 117, ALPA had no place to point the laser to rally the troops and keep the PAC money and other donations flowing in. Norwegian became the easy target as they were a new, somewhat higher profile, foreign entry into the U.S. market, and were doing things differently than the U.S. airlines, even though it was not different than what other European and Asian airlines were doing.

Which US airlines are subsidized?

ALPA didn't pick a new enemy, it just expanded its view of the world to include the real and viable threats to the US aviation industry.

ME3 free fuel
NAI cheap labor and subsidized.

Once you let the burglar in your back door, you might as well give him the keys to your Lincoln in the garage too, that way he can be sure to get your TV home without dropping it.

Industry can't support wage growth while encouraging wage deflation simultaneously.

The competitive environment, work rules, pay, fatigue rules, safety standards, and hiring standards need a certain degree of uniformity to have both a desirable and predictable career path. ME3/ NAI would tend to crap on that position.

NEDude
06-07-2017, 02:44 AM
Which US airlines are subsidized?

ALPA didn't pick a new enemy, it just expanded its view of the world to include the real and viable threats to the US aviation industry.

ME3 free fuel
NAI cheap labor and subsidized.

Once you let the burglar in your back door, you might as well give him the keys to your Lincoln in the garage too, that way he can be sure to get your TV home without dropping it.

Industry can't support wage growth while encouraging wage deflation simultaneously.

The competitive environment, work rules, pay, fatigue rules, safety standards, and hiring standards need a certain degree of uniformity to have both a desirable and predictable career path. ME3/ NAI would tend to crap on that position.

Every U.S. airline is subsidised. If U.S. airlines had to play by the same rules as the European airlines, Delta, United and American (as well as the airlines they merged with), would all be relegated to the dustbin of history. Bankruptcy laws allow U.S. airlines significantly more financial flexibility than European airlines. European airlines cannot simply declare chapter 11, rake in huge bonuses for the executives, screw everyone else with the blessings of the federal court system, and continue to operate. If the U.S. airlines are going to accuse others of not playing fairly, the they need to get rid of the very unique chapter 11 rules that are not found in other parts of the world.

Also, please explain how Norwegian is government subsidised. This is the first time I have heard that accusation used against them.

captjns
06-07-2017, 03:49 AM
Which US airlines are subsidized?

To bring you up to date...

I didn't vote to subsidize any U.S. carrier with my tax dollars.

Big Airlines Benefit from Bailout Bill | Taxpayers for Common Sense (http://www.taxpayer.net/library/weekly-wastebasket/article/big-airlines-benefit-from-bailout-bill)

ALPA didn't pick a new enemy, it just expanded its view of the world to include the real and viable threats to the US aviation industry.

Pilots enemy(Ives) in their own back yard. Talk to the airline pilots who were and still are members of ALPA who had their retirement plans stripped away.

ME3 free fuel

Emeritates, on a regular basis, plans on a landing weight next station back in DBX with as much fuel, which they purchase at out stations, again without preferential treatment on prices because fuel prices are more expensive at their own base.

NAI cheap labor and subsidized.

Subsidized? By which country? Ireland? Norway? England?

Once you let the burglar in your back door, you might as well give him the keys to your Lincoln in the garage too, that way he can be sure to get your TV home without dropping it.

Industry can't support wage growth while encouraging wage deflation simultaneously.

The competitive environment, work rules, pay, fatigue rules, safety standards, and hiring standards need a certain degree of uniformity to have both a desirable and predictable career path. ME3/ NAI would tend to crap on that position.

Look in your own back yard. Most foreign carriers I've flown with provide full pay and benefits from day one. Talk to your colleagues at Frontier, Spirit, and other carriers.... $2,000 a month from day one acceptable to you?

Baseball... you've struck out. Head back to the minors

Sliceback
06-07-2017, 07:38 AM
Lots of foreign airlines have reduced pay while in training, which can last for months, and months, and months...

captjns
06-07-2017, 10:47 AM
Lots of foreign airlines have reduced pay while in training, which can last for months, and months, and months...

U.S. carriers too have reduced pay which will last until O.E. is complete.

Grumble
06-07-2017, 02:38 PM
U.S. carriers too have reduced pay which will last until O.E. is complete.

Um.... UAL new hires actually take a sizable pay cut when they finish IOE. ($85/hr X 90 hrs)+$50/day per diem + hotel expenses paid for + PS travel on off days. Maybe you should actually read the contracts. DAL new hires are making almost $90/hr and those are the ones who aren't upgrading to CAPTAIN.

To bring you up to date...

I didn't vote to subsidize any U.S. carrier with my tax dollars.

Big Airlines Benefit from Bailout Bill | Taxpayers for Common Sense (http://www.taxpayer.net/library/weekly-wastebasket/article/big-airlines-benefit-from-bailout-bill)




You're telling half truths. Most the money quoted in that article was never allotted, UAL was denied specifically for the ATSB loan. Never mind the fact that... assuming all $15b was given out... that would be less than 1/3 for the entire US industry of the amount EK has directly received from their govt. Notice that article didn't give any specifics?

Swing and a miss.

Typhoonpilot
06-08-2017, 07:35 AM
Um.... UAL new hires actually take a sizable pay cut when they finish IOE. ($85/hr X 90 hrs)+$50/day per diem + hotel expenses paid for + PS travel on off days. Maybe you should actually read the contracts. DAL new hires are making almost $90/hr and those are the ones who aren't upgrading to CAPTAIN.



You're telling half truths. Most the money quoted in that article was never allotted, UAL was denied specifically for the ATSB loan. Never mind the fact that... assuming all $15b was given out... that would be less than 1/3 for the entire US industry of the amount EK has directly received from their govt. Notice that article didn't give any specifics?

Swing and a miss.


Been awhile since I read that fantastic report by ALPA on alleged ME3 subsidies, but as I recall the majority of their total was allocated to Qatar and Etihad with only some vague unproved fuel hedges getting reimbursed for Emirates.

badflaps
06-08-2017, 04:05 PM
If NAI gets their way you may not have a jumpseat to deny.

baseball
06-08-2017, 06:28 PM
Every U.S. airline is subsidised. If U.S. airlines had to play by the same rules as the European airlines, Delta, United and American (as well as the airlines they merged with), would all be relegated to the dustbin of history. Bankruptcy laws allow U.S. airlines significantly more financial flexibility than European airlines. European airlines cannot simply declare chapter 11, rake in huge bonuses for the executives, screw everyone else with the blessings of the federal court system, and continue to operate. If the U.S. airlines are going to accuse others of not playing fairly, the they need to get rid of the very unique chapter 11 rules that are not found in other parts of the world.

Also, please explain how Norwegian is government subsidised. This is the first time I have heard that accusation used against them.

NAI is a scheme of convenience meant to undermine the collective improvements of the entire US airline industry.

Typhoonpilot
06-08-2017, 07:07 PM
If NAI gets their way you may not have a jumpseat to deny.


That is such a naïve and uninformed thing to say.

That statement is the epitome of ALPA national and their poor strategy towards any kind of a competitive threat brought about by technological change.

The 737 Max and the A320 Neo series aircraft will transform the North Atlantic transportation market. Soon enough RyanAir, EasyJet, JetBlue, Spirit, and others will join in. The U.S. incumbents and their labor groups need to be ready for that.

Hoping and praying it won't happen, or worse yet, attempting to threaten those who are at the forefront of the new reality won't change what is coming.

NYC Pilot
06-08-2017, 09:01 PM
That is such a naïve and uninformed thing to say.

That statement is the epitome of ALPA national and their poor strategy towards any kind of a competitive threat brought about by technological change.

The 737 Max and the A320 Neo series aircraft will transform the North Atlantic transportation market. Soon enough RyanAir, EasyJet, JetBlue, Spirit, and others will join in. The U.S. incumbents and their labor groups need to be ready for that.

Hoping and praying it won't happen, or worse yet, attempting to threaten those who are at the forefront of the new reality won't change what is coming.

Totally agree 100%... These U.S legacy pilots think they own the entire game of Aviation. Hope it works out for them but they live in a bubble. Aviation is a worldwide phenomenon believe it or not. I'm not in favor of NAI types either but I believe what I see and experience. The game is changing very fast.

B757
06-08-2017, 09:27 PM
..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757

NEDude
06-09-2017, 02:01 AM
..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757

You think there is something wrong with airlines assaulting their passengers?!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-dispute-over-violin-163419571.html

Denti
06-11-2017, 12:36 PM
NAI is a scheme of convenience meant to undermine the collective improvements of the entire US airline industry.

As a european carrier, all it can do is underminde the collective improvements in the european airline industry, and it tries to do that, same as Ryanair did, and all the others do. Every EU carrier has the same rights, and at some point will probably use them. So be prepared for the 1500€/month 150 hour Wizzair pilot flying to the US with unlimited traffic rights, once they order A321NEO LR. Or, for that matter, the pay to fly Air Baltic pilots. Norwegian is not the worst airline by far, they just use the possibilities earlier.

Grumble
06-11-2017, 02:48 PM
..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757

Sure, lets pitch all our seats like NAI and shove them full... while at the same time giving back 60% or more of pay and benefits fought for by generations of mainline pilots.

As for the ME3, let's combine all the US majors into one major State owned airline, and subsidize all costs while at the same time not disclosing any financials by any accepted means. You can take a shower after your steak and lobster dinner for your $500 transcon so long as your tax dollars are filling the gaps.

NEDude
06-12-2017, 12:23 AM
Sure, lets pitch all our seats like NAI and shove them full... while at the same time giving back 60% or more of pay and benefits fought for by generations of mainline pilots.


Yes, because Norwegian seat pitch is SO much different than everyone else:
B787 Seat Pitch (from seatguru.com)
American 31
United 32
British Airways 31
KLM 31
Norwegian 31-32

Grumble
06-14-2017, 11:34 PM
Yes, because Norwegian seat pitch is SO much different than everyone else:
B787 Seat Pitch (from seatguru.com)
American 31
United 32
British Airways 31
KLM 31
Norwegian 31-32

That's the part you object to...

Norwegian, NAI, not the same.

http://www.mediacollege.com/adobe/photoshop/animation/images/Facepalm_700x526.gif

NEDude
06-15-2017, 01:39 AM
That's the part you object to...

Norwegian, NAI, not the same.

http://www.mediacollege.com/adobe/photoshop/animation/images/Facepalm_700x526.gif

NAI is part of the Norwegian group and all flights are marketed under the Norwegian Air Shuttle banner. Norwegian seat pitch on the 737, whether they are operated by NAI, NAS, or NAN, is listed by SeatGuru at 29-31 inches, with 186 seats. Similar to Ryanair with 189 seats and 30 inch pitch listed for their economy seats. easyJet has 29 inch pitch on their A319/A320, KLM has 30 inch pitch on their 737s. Lufthansa has 30 inch pitch on their A320s. American has 30 inch pitch on their 737s in economy. So Norwegian is right in the ballpark with other LCCs and economy seating on legacy airlines. And they do it on both fleets across ALL AOCs.

I would also like to know where your outrage is at BA widebody captains topping out at around $165,000 usd per year, or BA first officers topping out at $90,000 usd for widebody flying. I do not hear you complaining about them undercutting pay. Why no outrage at Eurowings paying their A330 captains $90,000 to do trans-Atlantic flying? The fact is European airlines do not pay nearly as much as the US airlines, and should all be accused of undercutting the profession.

If you are going to cop an attitude, at least don't do it based on ignorance...

lgaflyer
06-16-2017, 06:21 AM
Anyone here who is actually currently flying for Norwegian (737 or 787) out of the US bases? Do they mind chimming in? Maybe they can give some insight into the operation....

NEDude
06-16-2017, 09:02 AM
Anyone here who is actually currently flying for Norwegian (737 or 787) out of the US bases? Do they mind chimming in? Maybe they can give some insight into the operation....

I just had my six month OPC (for WOW Air) in LGW last week and rode in the hotel van with an American guy who just finished his sim with Norwegian. I guess he was in the first group of 787 guys hired for the FLL base. He was at one of the cargo companies out of MIA. I don't think the 737 operation has started yet. So my guess is there are very few guys out there yet.

lgaflyer
06-16-2017, 03:00 PM
Didn't they start swf-snn yesterday or something?

Typhoonpilot
06-16-2017, 04:06 PM
Didn't they start swf-snn yesterday or something?


It's being flown by European based pilots right now.

Caveman
06-16-2017, 04:43 PM
NAI is a scheme of convenience meant to undermine the collective improvements of the entire US airline industry.



[emoji106]

Caveman
06-16-2017, 04:59 PM
Your either part of the solution or part of the problem.

I'd speculate most of the passionate NAI proponents and "experts" in this thread are ex pats, or are "unhireable" by a U.S. "Major/Legacy" Airline for one reason or another.

captjns
06-16-2017, 05:24 PM
Your either part of the solution or part of the problem.

I'd speculate most of the passionate NAI proponents and "experts" in this thread are ex pats, or are "unhireable" by a U.S. "Major/Legacy" Airline for one reason or another.

Your arrogance and speculation is tantamount to an assumption. Caveman... you do know what they say when you assume. You may delete the "me" from the axiom.

The larger threat is from within the ivory tower of the airlines... in the name of outsourcing... the new buzz term for and code sharing. After all it make sense for the shareholders for management to keep overall operating costs down... use cost effective measures to move passengers to Europe, Asia, and Australasia on someone else's metal... doesn't it?

Caveman
06-16-2017, 05:39 PM
Your arrogance and speculation is tantamount to an assumption. Caveman... you do know what they say when you assume. You may delete the "me" from the axiom.



The larger threat is from within the ivory tower of the airlines... in the name of outsourcing... the new buzz term for and code sharing. After all it make sense for the shareholders for management to keep overall operating costs down... use cost effective measures to move passengers to Europe, Asia, and Australasia on someone else's metal... doesn't it?


After posting I figured it would ruffle a few feathers. Just didn't think that quick.

I agree "outsourcing of labor" is the threat.

"Barriers To Entry" is the term to understand and is the first step into any improvements to compensation and work rules in a labor market. Has nothing to do with what is "fair" or "deserved".

NAI doesn't play by the rules everyone else has too.

Are you a Contract pilot or do you fall under a CBA? I'm guessing you've been around a while. If your under a CBA, then certainly you can appreciate why NAI is viewed like it is by those at established US carriers. I speculate in my post above those that don't understand that, either aren't vested in a CBA, and either chose (or had that chosen for them) a different career path isn't affected by NAI-ish type schemes.

At your current position...why were you able to negotiate the compensation you currently receive?

NEDude
06-16-2017, 08:38 PM
After posting I figured it would ruffle a few feathers. Just didn't think that quick.

I agree "outsourcing of labor" is the threat.

"Barriers To Entry" is the term to understand and is the first step into any improvements to compensation and work rules in a labor market. Has nothing to do with what is "fair" or "deserved".

NAI doesn't play by the rules everyone else has too.

Are you a Contract pilot or do you fall under a CBA? I'm guessing you've been around a while. If your under a CBA, then certainly you can appreciate why NAI is viewed like it is by those at established US carriers. I speculate in my post above those that don't understand that, either aren't vested in a CBA, and either chose (or had that chosen for them) a different career path isn't affected by NAI-ish type schemes.

At your current position...why were you able to negotiate the compensation you currently receive?

This is where your ignorance shows. There are many airlines that use contract pilots and/or multiple AOCs based in different countries, and operate to and from the United States. Just because you have been oblivious to it up until now does not mean it has not been done for a long time. NAI is playing by rules that others have used for a long time, they are just doing it on a larger scale to and from the United States than others have.

Do not place too much faith in the collective bargaining process. Collective bargaining did not give pilot groups the power to negotiate as airline after airline went through bankruptcy in the decade after 9/11. Very few pilot groups negotiated their massive pay cuts and stripping of pensions in bankruptcy court. During my time with Virgin America, pay increased an average of 30% across the board without collective bargaining. Looking overseas, contracts in China have more than doubled in the past decade without the assistance of collective bargaining. I am not dismissing collective bargaining as an effective tool (I am going highlight that sentence as it is sure to get overlooked...). But it is not the be all and end all of the pilot career either. The economic health of the company and supply and demand for pilots plays as big a role in our compensation as anything else.

As for your comment about defenders of Norwegian being ex-pats, or "unhireable", I fall into the first category. I have lived and flown in North America, Asia, and Europe. I am licensed in four different countries. I am defending NAI (and the entire Norwegian group) because I have seen and witnessed the profession on multiple fronts and seen first hand how vastly different the piloting profession is, and how vastly different the companies can be structured. NAI is nothing new, not even close to it. I know that because I have the experience of being an ex-pat and seeing aviation in various places around the world.

Caveman
06-17-2017, 04:10 AM
Can you explain the how/why you were able to negotiate your current level of compensation?

Why did your compensation increase 30% while you were at Virgin America?

Do you think NAI will have either a positive or negative effect on compensation levels in the markets they enter?

NEDude
06-17-2017, 05:39 AM
Can you explain the how/why you were able to negotiate your current level of compensation?

Why did your compensation increase 30% while you were at Virgin America?

Do you think NAI will have either a positive or negative effect on compensation levels in the markets they enter?

I "negotiated" my current pay by weighing multiple job options and deciding which was the best for for me. I could have stayed on my commuting contract in China if the terms and conditions of my offers closer to home were not acceptable to me.

My compensation increased 30% at Virgin America because of supply and demand. We certainly did not have bargaining power, and we all know that management does not increase pay simply out of the goodness of their hearts.

As I have stated multiple times in posts about Norwegian, I have seen first hand that their growth has certainly had a positive impact on salaries and working conditions among the other LCCs and charter airlines. I can say with certainty that Norwegian (the entire group - NAS, NAI, NAN, NUK) has brought up the lower end of pay scales. Pilots at many of the LCCs and charter airlines have significantly improved terms and conditions due to Norwegian. More healthy and profitable airlines bodes well for pilot pay, it always has.

Denti
06-17-2017, 07:59 AM
NAI is just part of the Norwegian group. Some parts of the norwegian groups actually do have CBAs, some don't. Which is actually better than some of the other LCCs in europe. The likes of ryanair or wizzair do not have any CBAs, and do employ for the vast majority of pilots as contractors. I believe over 70% of all ryanair pilots are not actually employed by ryanair, and that is, after all, the biggest airline in europe, with bases all over europe as well. In contrast to that, other LCCs use a different employment model, easyjet for example does have CBAs for pretty much all of their flightdeck employees, the catch is that there is a different one for each base. Divide and conquer does seem to apply, however they do have, in some bases, very good T&Cs.

Now, all of that has been going on for close to 20 years now, and especially the LCCs so far haven't affected the north atlantic market yet. But they will in the future, all of them. With the increased range especially of the A321NEO and to some degree on the 737MAX transatlantic flights in narrowbody aircraft do make economical sense. The competition there, which, so far, has been extremely tame, compared to the intra-european one, will become extremely fierce in the next years. And Norwegian is actually not the worst offender.

Yes, i do think their flag of convenience and usage of out of EU contracts in a supposedly EU carrier is something we should fight, but that is mainly an EU issue, not an US one.

However, one could argue that a carrier like airberlin is actually the bigger threat to the north atlantic market. Completely state financed by a middle east state, surviving despite amassing huge losses and part of a normal airline alliance (oneworld) while under a complete set of CBAs they can afford to undercut everyone while Abu Dhabi pays the price. They managed to run the airline at a loss of nearly 800 million in the most profitable year for airlines worldwide, and still survive, add to their longhaul fleet and increase their footprint in the US.

captjns
06-17-2017, 12:18 PM
After posting I figured it would ruffle a few feathers. Just didn't think that quick.

I agree "outsourcing of labor" is the threat.

"Barriers To Entry" is the term to understand and is the first step into any improvements to compensation and work rules in a labor market. Has nothing to do with what is "fair" or "deserved".

NAI doesn't play by the rules everyone else has too.

Are you a Contract pilot or do you fall under a CBA? I'm guessing you've been around a while. If your under a CBA, then certainly you can appreciate why NAI is viewed like it is by those at established US carriers. I speculate in my post above those that don't understand that, either aren't vested in a CBA, and either chose (or had that chosen for them) a different career path isn't affected by NAI-ish type schemes.

At your current position...why were you able to negotiate the compensation you currently receive?

I am able to negotiate favourable terms and conditions with the skill sets I will bring to prospective airlines.

Typhoonpilot
06-17-2017, 05:46 PM
NAI is just part of the Norwegian group. Some parts of the norwegian groups actually do have CBAs, some don't. Which is actually better than some of the other LCCs in europe. The likes of ryanair or wizzair do not have any CBAs, and do employ for the vast majority of pilots as contractors. I believe over 70% of all ryanair pilots are not actually employed by ryanair, and that is, after all, the biggest airline in europe, with bases all over europe as well. In contrast to that, other LCCs use a different employment model, easyjet for example does have CBAs for pretty much all of their flightdeck employees, the catch is that there is a different one for each base. Divide and conquer does seem to apply, however they do have, in some bases, very good T&Cs.

Now, all of that has been going on for close to 20 years now, and especially the LCCs so far haven't affected the north atlantic market yet. But they will in the future, all of them. With the increased range especially of the A321NEO and to some degree on the 737MAX transatlantic flights in narrowbody aircraft do make economical sense. The competition there, which, so far, has been extremely tame, compared to the intra-european one, will become extremely fierce in the next years. And Norwegian is actually not the worst offender.

Yes, i do think their flag of convenience and usage of out of EU contracts in a supposedly EU carrier is something we should fight, but that is mainly an EU issue, not an US one.

However, one could argue that a carrier like airberlin is actually the bigger threat to the north atlantic market. Completely state financed by a middle east state, surviving despite amassing huge losses and part of a normal airline alliance (oneworld) while under a complete set of CBAs they can afford to undercut everyone while Abu Dhabi pays the price. They managed to run the airline at a loss of nearly 800 million in the most profitable year for airlines worldwide, and still survive, add to their longhaul fleet and increase their footprint in the US.


Good post Denti.

I'm no more in favor of Norwegian than anyone else, but ALPA has chosen them as their Boogeyman all while other much more career damaging activities are taking place in that same North Atlantic market and in other markets to which the typical ALPA pilot seems oblivious.

Seems odd, almost like they were Cavemen or something :p

Grumble
06-18-2017, 01:28 AM
If there's a bar to be lowered, several posters here will be there to apply.

MDdoc
06-18-2017, 09:42 AM
And I guess some posters here ^^, just can't handle the truth or facts.

WhiskeyDelta
06-18-2017, 12:38 PM
https://airwaysmag.com/special-flights/norwegian-swf-inaugural/

Final paragraph...

"It’s best for airlines to show their best when making a first impression, and although it’s inexpensive for passengers, I can’t imagine anyone running back for this experience again."

What a glowing review!

Caveman
06-19-2017, 04:03 AM
Look no further than the current places of employment for the supporters and defenders of NAI in this thread. That should tell you all you need to know about the NAI scheme.

NEDude
06-19-2017, 11:06 AM
Look no further than the current places of employment for the supporters and defenders of NAI in this thread. That should tell you all you need to know about the NAI scheme.

Translation - I cannot think of anything useful to say, so I will attempt to insult the places of employment of others.

Your conclusion makes no sense. What does my employment with an Icelandic airline tell anyone about how NAI is set up?

Captainobvious
06-21-2017, 12:53 PM
Some of us have been at multiple US MAJOR Airlines. I never had to leave the country, pay a training bond, or sell myself out by having to accept sub-standard pay and working conditions.


Any you're proud of this fact? I wouldn't be advertising this if I was you...:eek:

Jaded N Cynical
06-23-2017, 09:59 AM
Any you're proud of this fact? I wouldn't be advertising this if I was you...:eek:

I'm very proud I never had to consider a scum bag operation like NAI.

David Puddy
06-23-2017, 03:09 PM
You guys think Norwegian is bad for pilot wages, check out this airline which is known for lower pay and they are copying NAI's expansion strategy:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/57013-primera-air-to-lease-two-a321neolrs-from-aercap

And

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL8N1ID5HJ

We will see Primera flying both A321 NEO and 737-9 MAX airplanes on low-cost transatlantic flights to the US soon... Something like 20 737-9 MAX on order in addition to these A321 NEO LRs. NAI will look generous in comparison.

Yes, let's hope that the lack of qualified or "willing" pilots able to fly these airplanes leads to higher wages everywhere - we can only hope!

Caveman
06-23-2017, 04:10 PM
David thank you for posting that. Unfortunately this thread and others on the internet have demonstrated there's lots of NAI supporters out there. I'm assuming they'll be all about putting there shoulders behind these schemes as well.

For whatever reason most seem to be employed by those lowering the bar.

Your either helping raising the bar...or your not. It's that simple.

Typhoonpilot
06-23-2017, 05:30 PM
David thank you for posting that. Unfortunately this thread and others on the internet have demonstrated there's lots of NAI supporters out there. I'm assuming they'll be all about putting there shoulders behind these schemes as well.

For whatever reason most seem to be employed by those lowering the bar.

Your either helping raising the bar...or your not. It's that simple.


You mean like refusing to buy a 737 type rating to go to work for SWA up until a few years ago?

Caveman
06-23-2017, 05:35 PM
Or serving in the military for a quarter century, and incidentally they are competitive.

Or enduring furlough after furlough, all the while attempting to improve their work QOL at there current place of employ, by supporting their union and their negotiating activities.

What gives Typhoon...seriously. Why would you be such an avid supporter of undermining the efforts of the top of the labor pool to improve qol/benefits/compensation for all in the aviation labor pool?

Typhoonpilot
06-23-2017, 06:05 PM
Or serving in the military for a quarter century, and incidentally they are competitive.

Or enduring furlough after furlough, all the while attempting to improve their work QOL at there current place of employ, by supporting their union and their negotiating activities.

What gives Typhoon...seriously. Why would you be such an avid supporter of undermining the efforts of the top of the labor pool to improve qol/benefits/compensation for all in the aviation labor pool?


Please find a post of mine in this thread where I am "supporting" Norwegian.

You assume to know something about me and my current position, pay, and QOL. Rest assured I am not the least bit interested in applying to Norwegian with their current pay and working conditions.

What I object to is the beginning of this thread where pilots are calling other pilots scabs and threatening to blacklist them for daring to apply to Norwegian. That kind of attitude and behavior is despicable.

I also find it rather pathetic how poorly ALPA chooses their boogey men and presents arguments against them. Often times with false information which everyone seems to believe at face value. I simply counter with facts.

How much was your 737 rating, by the way?

Caveman
06-23-2017, 06:27 PM
I'm certain NAI has very high quality people in their pilot group, and am hopeful that they can support, not degrade the efforts of generations of pilots to improve work rules/qol/compensation. I don't see how they'll be able to do that with the scheme NAI is.

I don't think anyone should have to pay for qualification training, I think very few are doing that now. IMO-It'd be a better use of time/money/effort to make oneself more competitive by obtaining more education & shouldering leadership roles within your place of employ.

I don't know how much my type ratings cost, my current employer paid for all of the type ratings I've obtained.

Csy Mon
06-23-2017, 06:41 PM
Norwegian Air and their applicants are not doing anything illegal or immoral. It is all part of the Open Skies deal.
We have a short memory: Who invented the B scale? Hint: AA and UA.
Who flew jets for peanuts the last 25 years: Hint: US Regionals, food stamps inluded for junior pilots.
Pay to Play? Numerous US outfits, including Value Jet, Fine Air, etc.
Where was the outrage then? :rolleyes:
Nowadays we finally have a looming pilot shortage, the Norwegian Pilot Compensation Problem will fix it self: To get warm bodies they will have to pay more than the Chinese and the Arabs, otherwise empty cockpits. :rolleyes:

Denti
06-24-2017, 01:18 AM
Nowadays we finally have a looming pilot shortage, the Norwegian Pilot Compensation Problem will fix it self: To get warm bodies they will have to pay more than the Chinese and the Arabs, otherwise empty cockpits. :rolleyes:

There is no pilot shortage on the horizon, at least not in europe, where you need to have your license to work for NAI or any other of the Norwegian Group outfits. Not even remotely. Within the EU the average pilot unemployment is around 16%, in some countries up to 25%. And we do get thousands of new pilots every year. And yes, all of them can fly any plane right from the start, after they paid for their type rating (or not, some airlines still pay it, i work for one of those).

Primera might be bad, but Wizzair is probably worse, and ryanair is bad as well. With the new generation of narrowbody aircraft pretty much every airline in europe can take on the north atlantic market with a cost base that is much lower than any legacy carrier, including NAI, which might be surprising, but is still true.

There are quite a few pilots within the Norwegian Group who are unionized, trying to unionize the rest of them. But so far there has not been much interest for that from the NAI pilots. Apparently the ability to live close to home, go to work three or four times a month for a 3 to 4 day trip is quite appealing. It even brings pilots back from much higher paid positions in asia and the middle east. And on the other end of the spectrum there are those that try to improve their CV by adding some valuable widebody time on longhaul routes that is appealing to other employers. And the US market doesn't really matter all that much to most of them, it is closed off, unlike the middle east or china.

They essentially "work their way up". The european way, which does not start working as a flight instructor, then flying King Airs before going to the regionals. In Europe it starts in the flight deck of an A320 or a 737 and goes up from there.

Do i support NAI? Not in the least. However, i do not see it as a US problem, i see it as an european problem. They follow the rules, like any other airline. It is up to us to change those rules if we really want it. And that is very hard and slow work. As mentioned above, the north atlantic market, at least the east coast traffic, will switch largely to ULCC narrowbody aircraft if the open sky agreement isn't changed. Expect to slow down for the A321NEO LR in front at .75 with your widebodies...

NEDude
06-24-2017, 07:43 AM
There is no pilot shortage on the horizon, at least not in europe, where you need to have your license to work for NAI or any other of the Norwegian Group outfits. Not even remotely. Within the EU the average pilot unemployment is around 16%, in some countries up to 25%. And we do get thousands of new pilots every year. And yes, all of them can fly any plane right from the start, after they paid for their type rating (or not, some airlines still pay it, i work for one of those).

Primera might be bad, but Wizzair is probably worse, and ryanair is bad as well. With the new generation of narrowbody aircraft pretty much every airline in europe can take on the north atlantic market with a cost base that is much lower than any legacy carrier, including NAI, which might be surprising, but is still true.

There are quite a few pilots within the Norwegian Group who are unionized, trying to unionize the rest of them. But so far there has not been much interest for that from the NAI pilots. Apparently the ability to live close to home, go to work three or four times a month for a 3 to 4 day trip is quite appealing. It even brings pilots back from much higher paid positions in asia and the middle east. And on the other end of the spectrum there are those that try to improve their CV by adding some valuable widebody time on longhaul routes that is appealing to other employers. And the US market doesn't really matter all that much to most of them, it is closed off, unlike the middle east or china.

They essentially "work their way up". The european way, which does not start working as a flight instructor, then flying King Airs before going to the regionals. In Europe it starts in the flight deck of an A320 or a 737 and goes up from there.

Do i support NAI? Not in the least. However, i do not see it as a US problem, i see it as an european problem. They follow the rules, like any other airline. It is up to us to change those rules if we really want it. And that is very hard and slow work. As mentioned above, the north atlantic market, at least the east coast traffic, will switch largely to ULCC narrowbody aircraft if the open sky agreement isn't changed. Expect to slow down for the A321NEO LR in front at .75 with your widebodies...

I think there is a bit of a shortage when it comes to the LCCs and charter market. Like the U.S. side, the legacies will never have much issue getting pilots. But I also view the LCCs and charters as being in a similar boat as the regional airlines in the States. When I came to Europe after being in China for many years, I had zero issues with landing a direct entry captain job with several LCCs and charter airlines. The legacy airline near home was not a viable option for two reasons, first my proficiency in the language was not where it should be, and at my age I would be lucky to upgrade before retirement age as they have 20-25 year first officers (and getting hired in your mid 40s is virtually unheard of - many of their pilots retire by 55). Plus the FO pay was less than half of what I could get going to a LCC. I did make it through most of the process with "The World's Favourite Airline" before Brexit took 15% of my potential pay, and they stopped all recruitment activity for six months. But again, it would have required 10-15 years at pretty low pay in the right seat. Ultimately though I had six offers I had to sort through.

I do not think most of the guys here have a decent idea about what pilots get paid in Europe. BA wide body captains top out at around $150,000 per year, about half of what they make in the States. SAS starts their FOs at about $54,000, and there are only occasional COLA raises, no big jumps each year like with the U.S. contracts. Wide body pay at SAS tops out around $135,000. Of course most countries require companies make large contributions to the national pension plans. I believe France requires companies contribute 20% of the salary annually. Anyway, the point is that the European market is quite different than the U.S. market and many of the comments on here are based in ignorance.

The other point you made, which is overlooked by most, is that Norwegian IS playing by the rules. They are playing by the EU/EEA rules and they are playing by the Open Skies rules (the EU and the US authorities both agree on this fact). The issue is that on the US side, they have decided they do not like the rules and now wish to change them.

Denti
06-24-2017, 09:56 AM
I seriously doubt the BA captain pay, according to PPJN the base pay for a widebody captain is 164.374 GBP plus another 10 GBP per block hour and 3,31 GBP per dury hour. Those figures are pretty much on par with the material BA gave us a year or so ago during a recruitment drive at my company. I know the pound lost quite a bit of value post brexit, but it is not that bad, all in all it will be quite a bit above $200k, even more for trainers of course. Not to mention, they have a very fast progression at the moment, as far as i know there was even an upgrade to captain for someone with less than 2 years with the company last year.

There might be a bit of a shortage for experienced pilots in places that are undesirable or those that offer bad T&Cs. Easyjet apparently is about to offer DEC positions, but of course in portugal where the conditions are extremely bad. If they had the same conditions as they have at better bases, like UK or german ones, they would have no shortage of FOs that are able to do their captain training. But those rather wait for a slot in the "good" bases.

Those with good conditions and bases in the right places do not have any shortage at all. And even those that offer bad conditions and bases in less desirable places do not have any shortage for first officers, they might however do have a problem to retain their captains, as chinese airlines in particular like to recruit from europe by now, same as the middle east ones.

NEDude
06-24-2017, 09:10 PM
I seriously doubt the BA captain pay, according to PPJN the base pay for a widebody captain is 164.374 GBP plus another 10 GBP per block hour and 3,31 GBP per dury hour. Those figures are pretty much on par with the material BA gave us a year or so ago during a recruitment drive at my company. I know the pound lost quite a bit of value post brexit, but it is not that bad, all in all it will be quite a bit above $200k, even more for trainers of course. Not to mention, they have a very fast progression at the moment, as far as i know there was even an upgrade to captain for someone with less than 2 years with the company last year.

There might be a bit of a shortage for experienced pilots in places that are undesirable or those that offer bad T&Cs. Easyjet apparently is about to offer DEC positions, but of course in portugal where the conditions are extremely bad. If they had the same conditions as they have at better bases, like UK or german ones, they would have no shortage of FOs that are able to do their captain training. But those rather wait for a slot in the "good" bases.

Those with good conditions and bases in the right places do not have any shortage at all. And even those that offer bad conditions and bases in less desirable places do not have any shortage for first officers, they might however do have a problem to retain their captains, as chinese airlines in particular like to recruit from europe by now, same as the middle east ones.

I got my BA numbers before I went through the process with them last year. Made it through two phases and after I got the notice to book for phase 3, I got a notice that they were not going to open more spots for six months. I was also told that upgrade at LGW had been theoretically possible in about two years, but the projections were that was no longer the case. But even based on your numbers, that works out to about $225,000 usd per year for a senior long haul line captain, which is about 20-25% less than the equivalent pay in States.

EasyJet offered me a direct entry Captain spot, LGW based. Base pay was £96,917. Added potential bonuses and sector pay brought the total to £114,022 annually, or about $145,000 before taxes. But LGW only has two night stops - CPH and MAD, so the overwhelming majority of trips are day trips. Also they wanted a 2 year bond of $12,700, to cover the cost of initial line training and hotac, even though I came in as a type rated and experienced A320 captain.

My current pay is less than easyjet, but my commute is positive space and considered a work day, and my accommodations in KEF are covered. There was also no training bond. Also the set schedule (I can plan out my entire year) and no sitting reserve, are nice perks.

Jaded N Cynical
06-28-2017, 09:23 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/06/27/house-panel-votes-clip-wings-future-airline-deals-like-norwegian/430457001/

Danfly180
07-18-2017, 07:43 PM
I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?

Thanks.

intrepidcv11
07-19-2017, 05:15 AM
I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?

Thanks.

Sweet Widebody ride bro...

mainlineAF
07-19-2017, 05:28 AM
I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?



Thanks.



No. You're the only one desperate enough. Congrats on sucking.

WHACKMASTER
07-19-2017, 05:53 AM
I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?

Thanks.

:rolleyes:

NEDude
07-19-2017, 09:34 AM
I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?

Thanks.

Disregard the haters. If it works for you and your family, and you are not crossing a picket line, then go for it. No need to apologise to anyone else.

Especially disregard WHACKMASTER. He HAS helped destroy mainline wages (his AirTran wages were used as justification to cut Delta wages by 30%). But since it was him, apparently it is okay...

Danfly180
07-19-2017, 11:22 AM
Disregard the haters. If it works for you and your family, and you are not crossing a picket line, then go for it. No need to apologise to anyone else.

Especially disregard WHACKMASTER. He HAS helped destroy mainline wages (his AirTran wages were used as justification to cut Delta wages by 30%). But since it was him, apparently it is okay...

Thanks for the positive reply. My wife's job got transferred to EU.
Just looking to get the ball rolling and point this thread in the right direction and what its actually intended for interview and prep.

mainlineAF
07-19-2017, 11:51 AM
Thanks for the positive reply. My wife's job got transferred to EU.

Just looking to get the ball rolling and point this thread in the right direction and what its actually intended for interview and prep.



I'd work at Starbucks before flying a widebody for 100k. Not worth it.

NYC Pilot
07-19-2017, 12:02 PM
I'd work at Starbucks before flying a widebody for 100k. Not worth it.

Not defending Norwegian but not too long ago, American Airlines 777 first officers were making a 100k and those were folks with 12+ years seniority. Just sayin..

mainlineAF
07-19-2017, 12:05 PM
Not defending Norwegian but not too long ago, American Airlines 777 first officers were making a 100k and those were folks with 12+ years seniority. Just sayin..



Yes they were, during the lost decade when pilot wages were close to their lowest in history. And I was talking about captains making 100k.

Now those same AA 777 pilots are making min 250k for first officers and at least 300k for captains.

These are arguably some of the best times to be a commercial pilot. Going to captain a 787 for 100k is insane. My FOs flying an e190 on first year pay will make close to that.

NYC Pilot
07-19-2017, 12:12 PM
Yes, times are good now but some folks will just not ever make it to the high paying legacy jobs for some reason or another.

mainlineAF
07-19-2017, 12:18 PM
Yes, times are good now but some folks will just not ever make it to the high paying legacy jobs for some reason or another.



Agreed. Maybe they should have gone to college or not gotten that DUI.

10 days off a month to fly across the Atlantic all night for 100k? I don't care how much anyone "loves" flying, it's just not worth it.

Danfly180
07-19-2017, 01:05 PM
Agreed. Maybe they should have gone to college or not gotten that DUI.

10 days off a month to fly across the Atlantic all night for 100k? I don't care how much anyone "loves" flying, it's just not worth it.

Captains make close to 150K. I have a 4 year degree and no DUI's and nothing with the FAA. Delta and the US3 aren't calling right now. Applications are in. Norwegian is calling and it seems to work out for now especially if guys are using this as a stepping stone to get EASA and then move to Virgin Atlantic after 3 years. We are moving to the EU and this seems like a logical plan.

captjns
07-19-2017, 06:37 PM
I'd work at Starbucks before flying a widebody for 100k. Not worth it.

Well mainlineAF, on behalf of this forum may I wish you the best of luck on landing that dream job with Starbuck for which you are probably better suited for.

T28driver
07-19-2017, 07:39 PM
Captains make close to 150K. I have a 4 year degree and no DUI's and nothing with the FAA. Delta and the US3 aren't calling right now. Applications are in. Norwegian is calling and it seems to work out for now especially if guys are using this as a stepping stone to get EASA and then move to Virgin Atlantic after 3 years. We are moving to the EU and this seems like a logical plan.

For what it's worth, I'd head over to PPruNe.

Norwegian Lack of Pilots - Page 8 - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/596366-norwegian-lack-pilots-8.html)

Worth reading the whole thread. I'd also read up on NEDude's past posts, plus everyone else here offering an opinion (including me). Most of us have an agenda (including me).

It's a tough transition moving to the EU from the US, no bones about it. Make sure you are not closing any doors by taking the first offer given. And look at Norwegian's debt/income ratio closely.

Packrat
07-20-2017, 07:48 AM
Captains make close to 150K. I have a 4 year degree and no DUI's and nothing with the FAA. Delta and the US3 aren't calling right now. Applications are in. Norwegian is calling and it seems to work out for now especially if guys are using this as a stepping stone to get EASA and then move to Virgin Atlantic after 3 years. We are moving to the EU and this seems like a logical plan.

If it works for you and your family, go for it. There are a LOT of pilots out there working for a LOT less.

vroll1800
07-20-2017, 10:03 AM
Well mainlineAF, on behalf of this forum may I wish you the best of luck on landing that dream job with Starbuck for which you are probably better suited for.

That's quite presumptuous of you to think that you speak for me, or a majority of APC membership.

intrepidcv11
07-20-2017, 08:17 PM
Captains make close to 150K. I have a 4 year degree and no DUI's and nothing with the FAA. Delta and the US3 aren't calling right now. Applications are in. Norwegian is calling and it seems to work out for now especially if guys are using this as a stepping stone to get EASA and then move to Virgin Atlantic after 3 years. We are moving to the EU and this seems like a logical plan.

So if DAL calls tomorrow what are you telling the wife about her career? If DAL calls after you sign the bond what are you gonna do? Do you really think 150K for a WB Capt in the US is anywhere near competive?

NEDude
07-20-2017, 09:16 PM
So if DAL calls tomorrow what are you telling the wife about her career? If DAL calls after you sign the bond what are you gonna do? Do you really think 150K for a WB Capt in the US is anywhere near competive?

Some people actually do turn down DAL. I walked away from a guaranteed career at DAL (employed by Compass and was covered under the flow through agreement). Not everyone's job satisfaction is based on whether their salary is considered competitive with others. I know that may be shocking to some of you with a very narrow world view. But if what Norwegian is offering works for him and his family situation, he is under no obligation for it to make sense to you. As for potential black marks on a career, if you can provide a Freedom Air list, or GoJet list, and show that those guys have been blackballed, I just might believe the same thing could happen to Norwegian guys in the future as well. But as there is no such thing as a list of the pilots who went to Freedom or GoJet, and zero evidence they have been blackballed in their career, the threats against the potential Norwegian guys are just another case of internet message board hot air.

Csy Mon
07-20-2017, 09:31 PM
. Do you really think 150K for a WB Capt in the US is anywhere near competive?

Yup, lots of WB Captains down at the corrision corner in Miami making less.
I was one of them: Furloughed from AA October 2003.
Took a job with Tradewinds as a B-747 Captain after my unemployment benefits ran out and no recalls on the horizon.
Base pay in the left seat was less then Norwegian, adjusted for inflation and all.
It doubled after I made check airman but still less than majors.
Anybody saying I should not have taken the job are welcome to chip in and pay for monthly expenses and health insurance, etc.

mainlineAF
07-21-2017, 05:46 AM
Yup, lots of WB Captains down at the corrision corner in Miami making less.

I was one of them: Furloughed from AA October 2003.

Took a job with Tradewinds as a B-747 Captain after my unemployment benefits ran out and no recalls on the horizon.

Base pay in the left seat was less then Norwegian, adjusted for inflation and all.

It doubled after I made check airman but still less than majors.

Anybody saying I should not have taken the job are welcome to chip in and pay for monthly expenses and health insurance, etc.



That was the lost decade when jobs were scarce. This is one of the best pilot markets ever.

Sliceback
07-21-2017, 06:55 PM
Not defending Norwegian but not too long ago, American Airlines 777 first officers were making a 100k and those were folks with 12+ years seniority. Just sayin..

For one year (2003) AA 777 FO reserve pay dropped to $110,000. The next year it increased to $120,000.

Line holders made 15-30% more.

NYC Pilot
07-21-2017, 07:35 PM
For one year (2003) AA 777 FO reserve pay dropped to $110,000. The next year it increased to $120,000.

Line holders made 15-30% more.

Yes, you are correct but I think those rates lasted longer than a year. $139 an hour was 12 year 777 FO rate and guarantee was 64 hours I believe. I'm an ex-Eagle guy(from year 2000-03). I remember those times clearly.

okcpilot
07-28-2017, 03:57 PM
Any one have tips on upcoming Norwegian assessment at Miami for 787 don by OSM

WHACKMASTER
07-29-2017, 11:11 AM
Any one have tips on upcoming Norwegian assessment at Miami for 787 don by OSM

Unbelievable.....

PILOTGUY
07-29-2017, 01:57 PM
Unbelievable.....

uhh, this IS the 'Norwegian Interview' thread.:rolleyes:

We all know it is not "2002" anymore, but a lot of people still need jobs, still have families to take care of.
Contrary to what it may seem, the US3 are not hiring everyone they can. I know people overqualified for that job and are not getting any calls.

mainlineAF
07-29-2017, 02:08 PM
Any one have tips on upcoming Norwegian assessment at Miami for 787 don by OSM



Yea go work at Starbucks.

captjns
07-29-2017, 02:54 PM
Yea go work at Starbucks.

mainlineAF, you posted this some 2 weeks ago. I'd work at Starbucks before flying a widebody for 100k. Not worth it

Make us proud... Go to your nearest Starbucks and ask one of the wait-staff to write you an internal rec.;).

mainlineAF
07-29-2017, 03:03 PM
mainlineAF, you posted this some 2 weeks ago.

Make us proud... Go to your nearest Starbucks and ask one of the wait-staff to write you an internal rec.;).



I already work there part time ☕️[emoji196]

NEDude
07-29-2017, 09:22 PM
Unbelievable.....

Why? Because only you can work for subpar wages?

Here is that link again in case you need a refresher:
Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite?s=t)

Jaded N Cynical
07-30-2017, 06:46 AM
NEDude, lowering the bar one post at time.

NEDude
07-30-2017, 06:58 AM
NEDude, lowering the bar one post at time.

So being a hypocrite is raising the bar?

Nice standards...

C130driver
07-30-2017, 01:56 PM
uhh, this IS the 'Norwegian Interview' thread.:rolleyes:

We all know it is not "2002" anymore, but a lot of people still need jobs, still have families to take care of.
Contrary to what it may seem, the US3 are not hiring everyone they can. I know people overqualified for that job and are not getting any calls.

Overqualified how? Not being contentious I'm legitimately curious. Are they turning down 20k hour dudes or something?

dustrpilot
07-30-2017, 02:04 PM
Overqualified how? Not being contentious I'm legitimately curious. Are they turning down 20k hour dudes or something?



Word from those I know a Fedex is that after 5000 hours your considered untrainable.
Maybe someone hired there recently with more than 10000 can chime in on this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

imr125
07-30-2017, 05:40 PM
Word from those I know a Fedex is that after 5000 hours your considered untrainable.
Maybe someone hired there recently with more than 10000 can chime in on this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We've had FOs who have been on property for 8-9 years recently leave for FDX. With the amount of flying we do it would not surprise me one bit if they had over 10,000 hours.



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