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View Full Version : Aspen first time


Corpflyer
02-27-2017, 04:20 PM
Have a trip coming up to Aspen and looking for some tips. Do you use higher personal mins for the RNAV approach? Not being able to make the climb gradient for the instrument departures, I assume most have to wait till it's VFR. If you accept a departure when it's VFR and bang an engine, Is there room to maneuver back to the airport on the departures?
Thanks


Javichu
02-27-2017, 04:38 PM
Have a trip coming up to Aspen and looking for some tips. Do you use higher personal mins for the RNAV approach? Not being able to make the climb gradient for the instrument departures, I assume most have to wait till it's VFR. If you accept a departure when it's VFR and bang an engine, Is there room to maneuver back to the airport on the departures?
Thanks

zondaracer flies often to Aspen and he'll be able to help, I'll tell him about it.

galaxy flyer
02-27-2017, 05:13 PM
Some but limited experience:

Be careful during mid-day--as the valley heats the air rises and creates tailwind conditions, sometimes quite strong and the airport winds may NOT match the actual wind. I was conservative, if the variable wind looked out of limits at TOD, send the driver to Rifle or Eagle and divert. Everyone should understand and the driver will be waiting at either airport. Or arrange a rental/taxi.

Take your time, if you fly--off a bit to the west of RBL and fly over the valley, you do not need to fly a 6 or 7 degree descent.

Be slowed at Red Table VOR, you don't need to configure, but be back at flap speed.

Day VFR your first time, maybe on your third time, too.

Do NOT circle a jet to runway 33; there's marginal room, but you'll be belly up to a lot of close terrain and doing a downslope landing on 33 (15 is upslope 2%, 33 is down 2%).

Be real conscious to be "on profile", "on speed" leaving about 3-5 miles, going around or a balked landing in close would be exciting, not in a good way, either.

OEI on take-off, go up the valley and transition to RIL or EGE. Doing and engine-out return in the valley would be very risky.

I've gone missed on the approach, I didn't breath until about 14,000'

GF


viper548
02-27-2017, 05:39 PM
I've been into ASE 300+ times in the CRJ-700.

If you've never been, go VFR. Be fully configured abeam Red Table or configure while passing DBL if flying over it. Try to do a constant angle descent as best you can. Be prepared for a 10 knot TW landing on 15. If you have to reject the landing after the missed approach point climb at v2, wait until .7 DME south of the airport then LEFT turn to get on the loc bc. The runway is narrower than standard and uphill, so the illusion is that you are high. Don't go at night if you've never been. Watch for windsear on short final.
On departure stay over the low terrain. 3.7DME left 270. If you lose an engine do not return to Aspen.
Don't be afraid to say no. Aspen is NOT a 365 day a year airport. If you have microsoft flight sim or something similar, practice flying around there. Play around with google earth if you don't have the game.

Vital Signs
02-27-2017, 07:13 PM
Yep, if the conditions are not good VFR for the 1st time, go to Rifle.


And DAY ONLY

zondaracer
02-27-2017, 07:14 PM
Don't go at night and go VFR like everyone else said. There is a road intersection about a mile prior to runway 15 that has four stop lights, and they all turn red at the same time and it looks like a PAPI. It's not a bad idea to fly 10-15 knots fast on final for any possible windshear. Low pressure and winds out of the west is usually a bad combination.

When departing, they depart 33. I've seen guys do a VFR climb off of runway 15 when there were strong tailwinds on 33, but if you lose an engine, your options are limited.

Also, when departing runway 33, you have to make an immediate right turn to a heading of 343. Don't wait till 400 feet or 1000ft, especially if there is landing traffic on 15. If tower is telling you to begin your right turn per the LINDZ8 departure, then you are probably turning too late.

Falcondrivr
02-28-2017, 03:43 AM
My department only goes to ASE maybe once a year, so each of us goes maybe every other year at best?
Our departmental minimums are: Cloud bases above the mountain tops by 1000 feet, 5 miles vis, and day only.

RI830
02-28-2017, 04:18 AM
My basic practices.....
- configured and on speed at DBL
- Airport in sight by DOYPE or ALLEX
When the airport is in sight, swing out west into the valley to give yourself more room to descend. You have plenty of room to maneuver to get down.
- always watch the tailwind
- don't be afraid to divert to RIL OR EGE


Dept
Using the LINDZ dept SID, if you have FMS's you will split the boxes.
Program the normal two engine dept in FMS 1.
In FMS2, program the OEI procedure. Ususally is the turn to 343 and fly to the DBL 9.3 DME fix, turn left to 270 to intercept the LOC BC outbound to LINDZ.

Have fun and enjoy

Tony Clifton
02-28-2017, 04:56 AM
All of the above is good advice; allow me to add...

Buy your lift tickets on Liftopia -and/or- plan to drive up to Sunlight and ski there instead to save considerable $$.

B727DRVR
02-28-2017, 08:38 AM
First, everything mentioned here is spot on. Configure early, don't rush.

Second, read this article about how an overbearing passenger sitting on the jumpseat "who just HAD to be in Aspen in time for a party" pressured the flight crew into pushing a bad situation and ended up crashing: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2005/april/pilot/landmark-accidents-aspen-arrival (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2005/april/pilot/landmark-accidents-aspen-arrival)

In a nutshell: Don't let some jerk, who is used to being told "Yes" all the time, allow you to put your life and your crew's life at risk.

Have a Plan B for your passengers as well: When Aspen was doubtful, we made sure that we had limo's set up out of KRIL and let the passengers know in advance that, while KASE was a maybe, we had already planned for that contingency. Might be a good idea to have hotels and rental cars set up for the crew in KRIL as well. Hotels fill up fast in KRIL when KASE is down.

Finally, on your first approach into KASE, everything is telling you that this is a bad idea. When you have just been flying back and forth between KEWR, KDFW, and KLAX, the first sight picture of the approach is an eye opener. It's challenging, but like anything, will become second hand with practice. Don't rush, configure early, and have the approach plate dialed in.

And be sure to have some extra cash: There are no Subway's in Aspen. You will be spending some money to eat. Be sure and let your cheapskate Captain who keeps all the Atlantic Bucks for themselves that there is no Dennys there, either, and that your $20 meal is not unreasonable. Hint, hint CA based CE-750 guy!:p

Corpflyer
02-28-2017, 10:42 AM
Thanks for all the advice!

galaxy flyer
02-28-2017, 12:37 PM
The little Tex-Mex restaurant in Atlantic aint half-bad for a quick turn snack. Town is five minutes away. I've stayed st Rifle, not many hotels there, bug Glenwood Springs is a 45 minute drive, 2,000' lower if you can't sleep at 8,000' and less snooty.

GF

CFI Guy
02-28-2017, 01:47 PM
I've been into ASE 300+ times in the CRJ-700.

If you've never been, go VFR. Be fully configured abeam Red Table or configure while passing DBL if flying over it. Try to do a constant angle descent as best you can. Be prepared for a 10 knot TW landing on 15. If you have to reject the landing after the missed approach point climb at v2, wait until .7 DME south of the airport then LEFT turn to get on the loc bc. The runway is narrower than standard and uphill, so the illusion is that you are high. Don't go at night if you've never been. Watch for windsear on short final.
On departure stay over the low terrain. 3.7DME left 270. If you lose an engine do not return to Aspen.
Don't be afraid to say no. Aspen is NOT a 365 day a year airport. If you have microsoft flight sim or something similar, practice flying around there. Play around with google earth if you don't have the game.


I'm curious about your missed approach procedure after the MAP. I've flown into Aspen many times and always wondered what was the best course of action for a missed in such a situation. I asked pilots at my company and have heard a wide range of responses. Is this a specific procedure for your company or something you practiced in the sim / real world?

I echo everyone's comments about going into ASE. Fully configured by DBL and VFR only for your first time. The other operators I worked for had minimums that were so high you pretty much had to see the airport by DBL. I was a little shocked to read the mountainous airport minimums for my current company which just says refer to minimums on approach plate. I'm not cool with that.

Going missed after the MAP seems like the most disconcerting situation.

wrxpilot
02-28-2017, 03:52 PM
Great advice here. Also, when departing 33 on the LINDZ, turn IMMEDIATELY to heading 343. As in, positive rate, gear up, turn. I'm absolutely amazed at how often the non-local Corporate and Charter guys screw that up, and scare the crap out of inbound traffic to 15.

viper548
02-28-2017, 04:09 PM
I'm curious about your missed approach procedure after the MAP. I've flown into Aspen many times and always wondered what was the best course of action for a missed in such a situation. I asked pilots at my company and have heard a wide range of responses. Is this a specific procedure for your company or something you practiced in the sim / real world?

I echo everyone's comments about going into ASE. Fully configured by DBL and VFR only for your first time. The other operators I worked for had minimums that were so high you pretty much had to see the airport by DBL. I was a little shocked to read the mountainous airport minimums for my current company which just says refer to minimums on approach plate. I'm not cool with that.

Going missed after the MAP seems like the most disconcerting situation.
It was a specific procedure for the airline. We practiced it in the sim and I did it once in the plane after hitting bad windshear on short final. It works great. You have to keep that turn TIGHT. Our specific procedure said v2 at 28 degrees of bank in the turn. In the sim it was really iffy if going around from 50' then losing an engine, but it worked. No guarantees it will work for all airplanes or in all airplanes. In the sim I had the instructor put in 30kt wind out of the west and the procedure does not work as published single engine, turn radius is too wide.

galaxy flyer
02-28-2017, 05:02 PM
There's a ravine on the right that seems to spill the wind across final close-in to the runway, you'll see it.

Viper: nice info, thanks for sharing.

GF

RI830
02-28-2017, 05:39 PM
For a missed from low altitudes, I have practiced a few scenarios of utilizing the area west of the runway where the firehouse is to off set and making a V2/Vapp climb followed by a 30+ degree banked turn out to the left back over the airport and city.


Guys have goofed up to Roaring Fork Visual many times too! They clear you for the visual at 16,000ft give or take and abeam the airport to the east. Guys will begin the descent but turn in for the airport way to early and the terrain won't let you down fast enough.
If clears for the visual....take it wide out into the valley north of the field and take your time. Don't rush it.

galaxy flyer
02-28-2017, 06:34 PM
Off of DBL, flew out the radial toward JARGU (sp?) and big further southwest and let down over the valley, following it to the airport.

WATCH OUT for departing traffic coming head-on!

GF

tomgoodman
02-28-2017, 07:36 PM
Here's a good BBQ place in downtown Aspen:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g29141-d381722-r250833699-Hickory_House-Aspen_Colorado.html

RI830
03-01-2017, 09:51 AM
Here's a good BBQ place in downtown Aspen:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g29141-d381722-r250833699-Hickory_House-Aspen_Colorado.html

Nothing like a long flight followed by a snowy approach to mins in the hills to work up an appetite for a half rack of ribs and some fried okra.

Tony Clifton
03-01-2017, 09:54 AM
I once had dinner with Goldie Hawn and Kate Hudson at the J-bar downtown.

(Ok...they were sitting at the next table over and had no idea I existed but I still stick with the above sentence when telling the story)

tomgoodman
03-01-2017, 01:03 PM
Lock your door at night, especially if there is food in the room. :D

Bear has no reservations visiting Snow Queen lodge in Aspen | AspenTimes.com (http://www.aspentimes.com/news/bear-has-no-reservations-visiting-snow-queen-lodge-in-aspen/)

badflaps
03-01-2017, 03:13 PM
Lock your door at night, especially if there is food in the room. :D

Bear has no reservations visiting Snow Queen lodge in Aspen | AspenTimes.com (http://www.aspentimes.com/news/bear-has-no-reservations-visiting-snow-queen-lodge-in-aspen/)
Good advice anytime, especially if you are flying with a "Probie."

TiredSoul
03-01-2017, 05:38 PM
Times I've been there, VFR day light only and relatively calm winds.
It's fascinating and beautiful but not a place to mess around.
Frequent pax will know the drill.

Indyjetav8er
03-05-2017, 09:39 AM
All good advice. If you have time call your training provider. Go to the sim for a landing and departure. If your company does not want to pay. Tell them to get transportation from Grand junction. They should thank you for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Flyer49er
03-05-2017, 12:00 PM
KASE - Aspen, CO *New Familiarization Training Presentation* (http://forums.propilotworld.com/showthread.php?113141-KASE-Aspen-CO-*New-Familiarization-Training-Presentation*)

TiredSoul
03-05-2017, 04:24 PM
And...you would like us to join another forum?

Flyer49er
03-05-2017, 04:34 PM
And...you would like us to join another forum?If you'd like good, solid info, sure... If not, that is ok too. It's completely your choice. No harm, no foul.

Doc1010
03-05-2017, 05:25 PM
A highly informative read:

http://code7700.com/kase.htm



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