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View Full Version : ATP Minimums Question...


BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 06:14 AM
I'm new to looking at getting the ATP license, and looking toward the regionals, did some searching here but couldn't really find the answer I'm looking for.

CFR 61.159 says you need 500 hours of cross country ((1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time). But in other articles I read, they say 200 hours of cross country to qualify. I assume CFR 61.159 is correct, but why the discrepancy in what hours are required?

Does it have to do with being and SIC for a regional as opposed to a captain?

Thanks for your help.


Swakid8
03-25-2017, 06:22 AM
200 hours are for the Restricted ATP


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IDIOTPILOT
03-25-2017, 06:30 AM
There's a restricted ATP and then the old regular ATP. You need the regular old ATP to be a captain.


BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 06:31 AM
200 hours are for the Restricted ATP

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Thanks. That's another thing I've been trying to understand, the difference between 'restricted' and 'regular' ATP. As someone just building hours the 'normal' way, i.e., doing part 61, getting the ratings over time, etc, is that restricted or regular? If someone could explain that in a little detail it would be appreciated.

I did find this:

What is the difference between a restricted ATP and an unrestricted ATP?
An unrestricted ATP is required prior to operating as Pilot in Command under 14 CFR Part 121. Crewmembers may serve as Second in Command under 14 CFR Part 121 with a restricted ATP. A restricted ATP requires less flight hours than an unrestricted ATP and is attainable at 21 years of age versus 23 years of age for an unrestricted ATP.

So is this saying that I can apply to a regional with only 200 hours of cross country if I am going to be a FO/SIC?

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 06:32 AM
There's a restricted ATP and then the old regular ATP. You need the regular old ATP to be a captain.

Ok. Posted my second post above while you were posting this. So as asked above, if I'm looking to be hired as an FO/SIC, then I would need 1500 total hours and only 200 cross country?

zondaracer
03-25-2017, 06:42 AM
Ok. Posted my second post above while you were posting this. So as asked above, if I'm looking to be hired as an FO/SIC, then I would need 1500 total hours and only 200 cross country?

This is correct. You'll get the rest of the 300 hours of cross country while flying at a regional and you'll be able to get the unrestricted ATP before you are captain.

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 06:53 AM
This is correct. You'll get the rest of the 300 hours of cross country while flying at a regional and you'll be able to get the unrestricted ATP before you are captain.

Thanks for the info!

HighFlight
03-25-2017, 07:11 AM
There are actually six different ways to get a ATP rating. This page lays them all out nicely:

https://captainslog.aero/2014/restricted-atp-minimums/

TheWeatherman
03-25-2017, 07:17 AM
You'd know if you had the R-ATP. Basically, you need to graduate from an FAA approved Part-141 college program to get it. You can also get it by getting your ratings through military flight training.

HighFlight
03-25-2017, 07:21 AM
There is actually one other way, and that is why I posted the link above. It sounds like the OP may actually fall into the 61.160(f) category, not sure though.

You'd know if you had the R-ATP. Basically, you need to graduate from an FAA approved Part-141 college program to get it. You can also get it by getting your ratings through military flight training.

TheWeatherman
03-25-2017, 07:29 AM
There is actually one other way, and that is why I posted the link above. It sounds like the OP may actually fall into the 61.160(f) category, not sure though.

ohh, didn't see that. So you can get hired by a Regional with 1500 hours buy only 200 hours X-Country, but only as a FO until you get 500?

zondaracer
03-25-2017, 07:32 AM
ohh, didn't see that. So you can get hired by a Regional with 1500 hours buy only 200 hours X-Country, but only as a FO until you get 500?

Correct. Or/and you could be under 23 years old but over 21. So you don't have to go to a university 141 program. You still need 1500 but you get relief on the Ave and cross country time.

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 09:28 AM
ohh, didn't see that. So you can get hired by a Regional with 1500 hours buy only 200 hours X-Country, but only as a FO until you get 500?
Correct. Or/and you could be under 23 years old but over 21. So you don't have to go to a university 141 program. You still need 1500 but you get relief on the Ave and cross country time.

Ok, then, so confirmed. I'm over 23, only 200 hours x-country even though just doing part 61 training. Get the other x-country, as a FO/SIC to qualify for CA, which I'm not even concerned about at this point. Just making sure I have the minimums correct along with needing 1500 total hours.

VrefPlus5
03-25-2017, 12:00 PM
How do you get the full ATP cert if you currently have the restricted?
I'm guessing there's not additional checkride. Do you still have to submit a 8710 once you reach 500 hours cross country?

Twin Wasp
03-25-2017, 01:18 PM
How do you get the full ATP cert if you currently have the restricted?
I'm guessing there's not additional checkride. Do you still have to submit a 8710 once you reach 500 hours cross country?

Exactly. Fill out the form and be able to show you meet the "full" ATP requirements.

word302
03-25-2017, 02:16 PM
You'd know if you had the R-ATP. Basically, you need to graduate from an FAA approved Part-141 college program to get it. You can also get it by getting your ratings through military flight training.

This is not correct. The approved 141 school or military training is required for reduced total time requirements.

word302
03-25-2017, 02:18 PM
Ok, then, so confirmed. I'm over 23, only 200 hours x-country even though just doing part 61 training. Get the other x-country, as a FO/SIC to qualify for CA, which I'm not even concerned about at this point. Just making sure I have the minimums correct along with needing 1500 total hours.

Nothing to worry about anyway. You need 1000 hours as a 121 SIC to qualify as a 121 PIC. All the other requirements will easily be met before this one.

TheWeatherman
03-25-2017, 02:20 PM
This is not correct. The approved 141 school or military training is required for reduced total time requirements.
Isn't that what I just said?

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 06:07 PM
Nothing to worry about anyway. You need 1000 hours as a 121 SIC to qualify as a 121 PIC. All the other requirements will easily be met before this one.

So, are you telling me all I need for the regional is the 1500 hours and the division of minimum time doesn't really matter because I can get all the minimums as a FO/SIC since I need 1000 hours of SIC anyway? That's great news if I'm hearing you right.

HighFlight
03-25-2017, 06:54 PM
What he's saying is that once you have the hours for a restricted ATP (sounds like you have them now), the CA thing doesn't matter because once you have the hours needed to upgrade (1,000 121 as an FO), you will be well past the point of moving on to a full-on ATP, no longer a restricted.

In other words, having a restricted ATP in your case means nothing when it comes to upgrading because it will require 1,000 additional hours at a regional.

So, are you telling me all I need for the regional is the 1500 hours and the division of minimum time doesn't really matter because I can get all the minimums as a FO/SIC since I need 1000 hours of SIC anyway? That's great news if I'm hearing you right.

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 07:12 PM
What he's saying is that once you have the hours for a restricted ATP (sounds like you have them now), the CA thing doesn't matter because once you have the hours needed to upgrade (1,000 121 as an FO), you will be well past the point of moving on to a full-on ATP, no longer a restricted.

In other words, having a restricted ATP in your case means nothing when it comes to upgrading because it will require 1,000 additional hours at a regional.

Ok. Got that. But then you still need the minimums though to be hired as a FO/SIC, i.e., 200 hours x-country; 100 hours night flight; etc. Or does that not matter, and will get those minimums as a FO/SIC? That's the part I'm still not plain on.

BravoPapa
03-25-2017, 07:26 PM
Ok. Got that. But then you still need the minimums though to be hired as a FO/SIC, i.e., 200 hours x-country; 100 hours night flight; etc. Or does that not matter, and will get those minimums as a FO/SIC? That's the part I'm still not plain on.

Ok, from what I'm seeing, even for a restricted ATP, you still need those minimums.

bnkangle
03-26-2017, 07:50 AM
Ok. Got that. But then you still need the minimums though to be hired as a FO/SIC, i.e., 200 hours x-country; 100 hours night flight; etc. Or does that not matter, and will get those minimums as a FO/SIC? That's the part I'm still not plain on.

You need the mins to get hired. You can't build the time as an SIC. Lol.

BravoPapa
03-26-2017, 07:52 AM
You need the mins to get hired. You can't build the time as an SIC. Lol.

Hey, I didn't think so, but just making sure since the way it was put kinda confused me. It woulda been nice. lol.

Flyguy4723
03-28-2017, 05:28 AM
This is correct. You'll get the rest of the 300 hours of cross country while flying at a regional and you'll be able to get the unrestricted ATP before you are captain.

Doesn't he need 500 hours of XC time since he has not done his training at a part 141 program? He would need to get an unrestricted ATP which would require the 1500 TT and 500 hours XC...

IDIOTPILOT
03-28-2017, 10:54 AM
Doesn't he need 500 hours of XC time since he has not done his training at a part 141 program? He would need to get an unrestricted ATP which would require the 1500 TT and 500 hours XC...

No. Any applicant, regardless of prior training, needs 200 cross country for a restricted ATP.

TheWeatherman
03-28-2017, 11:14 AM
Yeah, that's huge because if you are just CFIing to build hours, getting 500 x-country is harder than you think.

BravoPapa
03-28-2017, 11:23 AM
Yeah, that's huge because if you are just CFIing to build hours, getting 500 x-country is harder than you think.

Exactly. That's why I started the thread to make sure.



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