Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




V1Rotate
04-23-2017, 12:27 PM
It seems that I've spoken to a number of people who have second-hand knowledge of the culture at Cathay being difficult; ridged micro-managing captains, stringint training programs and so on. I'm all for a high level of competency and professionalism, but no-one wants to walk on eggshells in the flight-deck. Is it really that difficult of an atmosphere to work in?

On a related note, how's the QOL? Days off in a month? Vacation? Flight benefits?

Thanks!


NYC Pilot
04-23-2017, 02:11 PM
Have a very good friend who flies for American Airlines now and is very happy. He told me that he didn't enjoy his time at Cathay Pacific at all. He said the people at Cathay were very difficult and there is no compassion in their company culture. Anyone can be terminated at any given time. The quality of life is also average. He says he would not go to Cathay in today's environment. There are much better jobs out there.

TiredSoul
04-23-2017, 02:52 PM
Cathay Pacific used to be one of the hardest airlines to get hired and one of the best paying.
For years it was THE destination airline for a lot of people.
Seems to have lost some of its shine.


Typhoonpilot
04-23-2017, 04:12 PM
Cathay Pacific used to be one of the hardest airlines to get hired and one of the best paying.
For years it was THE destination airline for a lot Brits, Kiwis, and Ozmates.
Seems to have lost some of its shine.


Fixed it for you ;)

True story. Years ago I am out with a friend in Dubai during Ramadan. Bars are all pretty slow then because, well it's Ramadan. So we walk into a bar in Bur Dubai that has very few people in it and sit down for a beer. A few minutes later an older gentlemen gets up from a table nearby and starts heading for the exit. My friend sees him and calls out his name. The guy comes over and they exchange greetings and make introductions for me. The guy is an A scale Cathay 747 captain on a layover who just happens to live in Thailand where my friend does (small world). Anyway we get to chatting and they get around to the topic of my friends brother. My friends brother (American by the way) was at Cathay for 8 years in the 90s and early 2000s. He was not successful at upgrade on the 747 fleet and left Cathay because of that.

When I say not successful, it's not that he failed any training events. He went through training fine, in fact very well by all accounts. So this guy we are talking to, a British 747 captain relates what he knows of the story. Back then (and still now, I don't know) all upgrade decisions went to something called the Star Chamber which was a group who decided whether or not someone would be blessed as a captain after their training was finished. So my friends brother's file gets there and the decision is made not to allow him to be a captain. The reason, now relayed to us by this guy sitting across the table is that the (British) 747 fleet manager/chief pilot said, "I will not have an American as a captain on my fleet".

PotatoChip
04-23-2017, 04:34 PM
After two years of applying I finally got an interview invite last week... and I'm finally to the point where I don't even want to go. I have one friend who left as a 14 year FO for a regional in the US with the hopes of getting picked up by a legacy. Says a lot.

Braniff DC8
04-23-2017, 04:57 PM
It's a evil and sick place from what I've heard. Potato, you have no idea what you'd be getting into.

NYC Pilot
04-23-2017, 05:19 PM
It's a evil and sick place from what I've heard. Potato, you have no idea what you'd be getting into.

Sick and evil, a lot like Emirates. Basically, the British and Aussies run the show in Cathay and Emirates. They don't seem to like Americans very much.

Typhoonpilot
04-23-2017, 05:32 PM
Sick and evil, a lot like Emirates. Basically, the British and Aussies run the show in Cathay and Emirates. They don't seem to like Americans very much.

Very different at Emirates. Americans do fine at Emirates. Well over 200 captains from the USA at EK; some in management roles in years past; and many in the training department.

NYC Pilot
04-23-2017, 06:09 PM
Very different at Emirates. Americans do fine at Emirates. Well over 200 captains from the USA at EK; some in management roles in years past; and many in the training department.

So Typhoon, if you had to pick one today, who is the best? EK, EY or QR?

V1Rotate
04-23-2017, 07:00 PM
Wow. Lots of posts, all negative. I wonder why they are so hostile to American pilots? Gernerally think of Americans getting on pretty well with brits and aussies, guess not. Maybe I'll focus my attention elsewhere then.

shroomwell
04-23-2017, 11:02 PM
Sick and evil, a lot like Emirates. Basically, the British and Aussies run the show in Cathay and Emirates. They don't seem to like Americans very much.


I always thought this was a bit humorous, especially considering that one of the founders of Cathay Pacific was an American.

Typhoonpilot
04-23-2017, 11:19 PM
So Typhoon, if you had to pick one today, who is the best? EK, EY or QR?

QR seems to be the clear winner right now. I know a few people there, including a former colleague who just started. Ex-EK guy is head of training now and he's a good guy. I used to work with him a fair amount and always got along well with him.

I would not go there on the A320 though. Would also stay away from the A320 at EY.

Typhoonpilot
04-23-2017, 11:23 PM
Wow. Lots of posts, all negative. I wonder why they are so hostile to American pilots? Gernerally think of Americans getting on pretty well with brits and aussies, guess not. Maybe I'll focus my attention elsewhere then.

It's different at EK. Of course there is the occasional DB, but the Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies at EK were pretty easy to get along with. There were more than a few of them that couldn't stand CX/KA and left to join EK back in the early 2000s.

I'm still good friends with a number of Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans, and Zims from EK.

TiredSoul
04-23-2017, 11:54 PM
I've had two former students that made it into their second officer program.
They'll be watching other people fly from the jumpseat for a long time.
From what I've heard their Tech interview is difficult.
Acquaintance who's a total geek and a lot smarter then me didn't make it through.
Cathay Pacific used to be on my list but no longer.
Truthfully not because of any changes there as I haven't followed what's going on but because my planning has changed.
What seems to be obvious though is that there is a lot more Internet forum noise on :
Cathay Pacific
Emirates

NYC Pilot
04-24-2017, 06:25 AM
QR seems to be the clear winner right now. I know a few people there, including a former colleague who just started. Ex-EK guy is head of training now and he's a good guy. I used to work with him a fair amount and always got along well with him.

I would not go there on the A320 though. Would also stay away from the A320 at EY.

I was thinking the same, QR. Oh, the 320 is a terrible fleet to be on due to schedules. 330 and 777 had good rosters. Back when I was there, everyone wanted to go to EY or EK. People used to bail to EY all the time. EK wouldn't hire QR pilots due to some agreement they had with each other. Wow, how tables have turned.

Purpleanga
04-24-2017, 09:38 AM
Wow. Lots of posts, all negative. I wonder why they are so hostile to American pilots? Gernerally think of Americans getting on pretty well with brits and aussies, guess not. Maybe I'll focus my attention elsewhere then.

Because we put our cowboy boots on the instrument panel?

Shibuya
04-24-2017, 07:19 PM
The tables at QR have no turned even a tiny bit, it has just gotten worse at EK and CX and other places. Glad I left that slave ship.

I could build a mountain out of stories at QR of good guys shut out of command courses.

One guy passed the entire command selection process and was told he had passed and down well but they simply just decided not to let him upgrade. He quit.

A year later there was a 320 course for probably 6 guys that was cancelled the day it was supposed to begin. Instead of putting those guys on the next course they were all told they had to wait 18-24 months because "their course" was cancelled and therefore they must start the entire process over again, yet just a couple weeks later people junior to them upgraded in the next course. I know for sure that about half of those guys left, some to their home countries others to VNA and even KA.

Another guy had a contentious command evaluation where he was assassinated due to excessive sick calls (3 calls in something like 4 years.) Fleet manager told him to his face that as long as he was in management he would make sure he could never ever upgrade or change fleets. Like any sane person he also left the company.

There are a couple huge egos that run Qatar Airways and if you get on their bad side you can forget about any kind of job security or advancement.

Braniff DC8
04-25-2017, 02:43 AM
CX was founded by an American not co founded. The Aussie came later.

CX was then stolen by the Brits in the 50s.

Heres whats being said at CX, "It was just a small iceberg but you need not worry as this ship is unsinkable"! Near, far wherever you are.

Wave goodbye Leonardo!

myoface
04-25-2017, 06:51 AM
Wow. Lots of posts, all negative. I wonder why they are so hostile to American pilots? Gernerally think of Americans getting on pretty well with brits and aussies, guess not. Maybe I'll focus my attention elsewhere then.

Because Americans are better pilots and the aussies and brits just cant wrap their heads around that.

atpcliff
04-25-2017, 08:21 AM
From a passenger perspective:
They are my least favourite airline to fly on in Asia. It is very similar to AA or UAL. I'm sitting in a Cathay biz lounge right now. Food is sub-par. Carpeting and furniture should have been replaced years ago... VERY shabby. Reminds me of a crappy UAL lounge. They have definitely gone down hill...

Braniff DC8
04-25-2017, 05:02 PM
atpcliff, you are not the only one saying that either. Tell CX though, they need to hear it.

worstpilotever
04-25-2017, 06:24 PM
Right....cx is going to listen to cliff. Nobody else does, why would they be any different?

Shibuya
04-26-2017, 02:16 AM
From a passenger perspective:
They are my least favourite airline to fly on in Asia. It is very similar to AA or UAL. I'm sitting in a Cathay biz lounge right now. Food is sub-par. Carpeting and furniture should have been replaced years ago... VERY shabby. Reminds me of a crappy UAL lounge. They have definitely gone down hill...

Its really sad seeing a once great airline slide so far down. Their stock is worth about 11HKD a share now....

Dolphinflyer
05-01-2017, 02:22 PM
Saw them slogging into a Holiday Inn SFO layover a couple of years ago.
Joking with CA about what a fall they've taken to end up staying at a flophouse with the likes of a Big 3 US bankruptcy basket case and a JFK LCC after crossing the Pacific.
He agreed.

Aurora8
05-01-2017, 10:30 PM
There's another problem - well it is at Dragon Air, so I suppose the same at Cathay - and that is their policy of hiring 'local' FO's. I just spent some time in HKG with a friend who's been a CAPT at Dragon for 15 years, and he (South African) and his buddies (one Brit, one Canadian, I'm a 'Yank'), told me seemingly endless horror stories of FO's that, well, can't spell 'airplane' let alone fly an airplane. They have no interest in aviation really, just applied to what seemed like a good job. They're sent off to AUS to get a bare CPL or MCL and then come back directly into the right seat of an A330. They regularly fail sim rides and don't care, and are back at work the next day as if nothing has happened. One told me about an 21 yr old FO (female Chinese), that he asked, "If I was incapacitated right now, are you confident you could safely make an emergency landing?" Her answer: "I pray everyday on the bus when I come to work, that nothing will happen to the Captain because we will all die if something does."
Creates a lot of extra stress for the Captain...:eek:

C130driver
05-02-2017, 09:00 AM
There's another problem - well it is at Dragon Air, so I suppose the same at Cathay - and that is their policy of hiring 'local' FO's. I just spent some time in HKG with a friend who's been a CAPT at Dragon for 15 years, and he (South African) and his buddies (one Brit, one Canadian, I'm a 'Yank'), told me seemingly endless horror stories of FO's that, well, can't spell 'airplane' let alone fly an airplane. They have no interest in aviation really, just applied to what seemed like a good job. They're sent off to AUS to get a bare CPL or MCL and then come back directly into the right seat of an A330. They regularly fail sim rides and don't care, and are back at work the next day as if nothing has happened. One told me about an 21 yr old FO (female Chinese), that he asked, "If I was incapacitated right now, are you confident you could safely make an emergency landing?" Her answer: "I pray everyday on the bus when I come to work, that nothing will happen to the Captain because we will all die if something does."
Creates a lot of extra stress for the Captain...:eek:

I flew them once, never again!! Same for Air Asia, I'll pay the extra 200-500 for a reputable carrier. Holy cow

tomgoodman
05-02-2017, 11:48 AM
Saw them slogging into a Holiday Inn SFO layover a couple of years ago.

I was never paid enough to justify slogging. Perhaps a good mosey at best. :D

Aurora8
05-02-2017, 01:54 PM
I flew them once, never again!! Same for Air Asia, I'll pay the extra 200-500 for a reputable carrier. Holy cow

Just to make you feel more confident: one of the guys was flying as CA in sim training with 5 FO's where they were briefed (no surprises) the CA would be incapacitated on approach into HKG. All 5 crashed into the ocean... did it again, and 4 out of 5 crashed into the sea, and 1 overran the runway.

Adlerdriver
05-02-2017, 05:23 PM
Just to make you feel more confident: one of the guys was flying as CA in sim training with 5 FO's where they were briefed (no surprises) the CA would be incapacitated on approach into HKG. All 5 crashed into the ocean... did it again, and 4 out of 5 crashed into the sea, and 1 overran the runway.
Is this Cathay or Dragon (or is there a diff?).

I'm supposed to fly Cathay twice this month with one of them connecting to Dragon. Maybe I'll take the train for the connection. :eek:

Braniff DC8
05-02-2017, 05:52 PM
To be fair, you could say these things about most Asian carriers now. Singapore, for one sacked, (yes, I used the word sacked) their expats (mostly Aussie refugees) years ago. The airlines are trying to attract "talent" on the cheap but it is starting to backfire. It will take a major accident, I know, many have happened, to attract the attention of the various "authorities". I am honestly surprised the FAA isn't all over this but a 777-300er with 300 Yanks has not plunged into the ocean-YET.

Aurora8
05-02-2017, 06:09 PM
Is this Cathay or Dragon (or is there a diff?).

I'm supposed to fly Cathay twice this month with one of them connecting to Dragon. Maybe I'll take the train for the connection. :eek:

It's Dragon, but I'm assuming (as Cathay owns Dragon) it's the same at Cathay...Like Braniff DC8 says, it's pretty much the same at all the Asian carriers. I've also got CA friends at Singapore and they have similar stories to the Dragon Air guys.

Aurora8
05-02-2017, 06:14 PM
...and, both Cathay and Dragon still have Expat FO's that are very experienced; just luck of the draw who you'll have on your flight! :eek:

Turbosina
05-02-2017, 06:59 PM
From a passenger perspective:
They are my least favourite airline to fly on in Asia. It is very similar to AA or UAL. I'm sitting in a Cathay biz lounge right now. Food is sub-par. Carpeting and furniture should have been replaced years ago... VERY shabby. Reminds me of a crappy UAL lounge. They have definitely gone down hill...

So true. Flew CX in international business class (paid ticket) a few months back on a Triple. The food was awful, worse than US domestic coach. The HK lounge was ratty and dirty. I'm amazed that CX still has any loyal business customers.

They have fallen a long way since the '80s, when I rode them frequently as a precocious teen living abroad...

C130driver
05-02-2017, 07:06 PM
Just to make you feel more confident: one of the guys was flying as CA in sim training with 5 FO's where they were briefed (no surprises) the CA would be incapacitated on approach into HKG. All 5 crashed into the ocean... did it again, and 4 out of 5 crashed into the sea, and 1 overran the runway.

Air Asia, LCC coming to an airport near you!

f10a
05-02-2017, 07:18 PM
So true. Flew CX in international business class (paid ticket) a few months back on a Triple. The food was awful, worse than US domestic coach. The HK lounge was ratty and dirty. I'm amazed that CX still has any loyal business customers.

They have fallen a long way since the '80s, when I rode them frequently as a precocious teen living abroad...
I flew cx last year from SFO. First class over and biz back and both flights were exceptional, especially the first class ride. All pilots were expats. Hard to believe it's gone that downhill.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

NEDude
05-03-2017, 04:02 AM
So true. Flew CX in international business class (paid ticket) a few months back on a Triple. The food was awful, worse than US domestic coach. The HK lounge was ratty and dirty. I'm amazed that CX still has any loyal business customers.

They have fallen a long way since the '80s, when I rode them frequently as a precocious teen living abroad...

I have to wonder how much of the ratty and dirty lounge in HK is related to the creeping influence of China. Nothing in mainland China is maintained. A great example is terminal 3 in PEK. The terminal is not even nine years old yet (opened in July 2008) and yet many parts of it look like it is fifty years old. I stayed in the short stay hotel on the arrivals level and the carpet and wallpaper was completely worn, even bare in some places. The shower head was crusted over with lime and water barely trickled out. Also the Air China/Star Alliance business lounge in 3E (international departures area) is full of worn carpet and worn out chairs. Easily the worst lounge I have ever visited.

f10a
05-03-2017, 08:01 AM
I have to wonder how much of the ratty and dirty lounge in HK is related to the creeping influence of China. Nothing in mainland China is maintained. A great example is terminal 3 in PEK. The terminal is not even nine years old yet (opened in July 2008) and yet many parts of it look like it is fifty years old. I stayed in the short stay hotel on the arrivals level and the carpet and wallpaper was completely worn, even bare in some places. The shower head was crusted over with lime and water barely trickled out. Also the Air China/Star Alliance business lounge in 3E (international departures area) is full of worn carpet and worn out chairs. Easily the worst lounge I have ever visited.
Sounds like the Korean lounge at LAX.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Braniff DC8
05-03-2017, 10:57 PM
CX pilots are in a work slow down (contract compliance) over work rules. It was announced that Atlas will be flying two B748s for CX beginning this month.

I hope the Atlas pilots realize what they are doing. If Atlas were to eventually go on strike, what support would they like to have especially Americans?

ATLAS PILOTS, PLEASE DON'T DO IT!

Probe
05-07-2017, 02:23 AM
I used to want to work for CX. A friend and myself applied about 12 years ago. We both got interviews. He went to HK for his interview, talked to a bunch of other interviews beforehand, and canceled his CX interview. I cancelled mine which was scheduled a few weeks later.

A couple of years later I am working in Asia at a different carrier. A few times I spent time in hotel lounges with a few CX pilots. All they talked about was who the last @$$hole sim evaluator was, and who they were going to get the next time. In between they complained about @nal Captains they flew with.

Not for me. I think I made a good choice.

Ludicrous Speed
05-08-2017, 06:40 AM
CX pilots are in a work slow down (contract compliance) over work rules. It was announced that Atlas will be flying two B748s for CX beginning this month.

I hope the Atlas pilots realize what they are doing. If Atlas were to eventually go on strike, what support would they like to have especially Americans?

ATLAS PILOTS, PLEASE DON'T DO IT!

Are the Cathay pilots on strike? No. If they were on strike, then we wouldn't cross. However, there is no strike, so there is no valid point in your post.

Atlas pilots will not cross a picket line, as was recently demonstrated during the ABX strike.

TiredSoul
05-08-2017, 06:59 AM
Are the Cathay pilots on strike? No. If they were on strike, then we wouldn't cross. However, there is no strike, so there is no valid point in your post.

Atlas pilots will not cross a picket line, as was recently demonstrated during the ABX strike.

However ABX is a US company.
Why would that carry over to a foreign based carrier?

Ludicrous Speed
05-08-2017, 11:12 AM
However ABX is a US company.
Why would that carry over to a foreign based carrier?

Solidarity is solidarity, no matter what the nationality. There is precedent that upheld the contractual right of pilots of US airlines to not cross a Canadian picket line.

Pirep
05-09-2017, 04:41 PM
Just to make you feel more confident: one of the guys was flying as CA in sim training with 5 FO's where they were briefed (no surprises) the CA would be incapacitated on approach into HKG. All 5 crashed into the ocean... did it again, and 4 out of 5 crashed into the sea, and 1 overran the runway.

I completely understand the problems that Cathay is having with of some of their FO's. I like many these days trained Chinese pilots as a CFI. We would screen them in China but the people who showed up were not the people we interviewed. Of course according to their airlines all of them could speak perfect English (which was not even remotely the case). It adds a whole new level of fun when your student has literally no idea what you are saying when you tell them to fly towards a lake. Or to reduce power. Or to go around. There are so many horror stories about these students that I can't even begin to describe them in one post. Lets just say that I would NEVER fly on any Chinese airline.

NEDude
05-10-2017, 10:25 AM
I completely understand the problems that Cathay is having with of some of their FO's. I like many these days trained Chinese pilots as a CFI. We would screen them in China but the people who showed up were not the people we interviewed. Of course according to their airlines all of them could speak perfect English (which was not even remotely the case). It adds a whole new level of fun when your student has literally no idea what you are saying when you tell them to fly towards a lake. Or to reduce power. Or to go around. There are so many horror stories about these students that I can't even begin to describe them in one post. Lets just say that I would NEVER fly on any Chinese airline.

I had a friend in China who was from England. He had a very proper British accent. The Chinese told him he needed to work on his English.

I had a Chinese FO hand me a bottle of water when I asked for the before start checklist.

Aurora8
05-11-2017, 12:59 AM
I had a friend in China who was from England. He had a very proper British accent. The Chinese told him he needed to work on his English.

I had a Chinese FO hand me a bottle of water when I asked for the before start checklist.

Classic! Thanks - That's my LOL moment for the day! :D

Braniff DC8
05-11-2017, 06:21 PM
"BEFORE START CHECKLIST" can sound like "YAT CHI SOY" which is a bottle of water in Cantonese. I know it may not seem so but with the right inflection and speed of voice it can. Just saying.

CaptYoda
05-11-2017, 07:15 PM
"BEFORE START CHECKLIST" can sound like "YAT CHI SOY" which is a bottle of water in Cantonese. I know it may not seem so but with the right inflection and speed of voice it can. Just saying.


Hope GO AROUND does not translate or sound like PASS ME THE JELLY
:D

NEDude
05-11-2017, 08:06 PM
"BEFORE START CHECKLIST" can sound like "YAT CHI SOY" which is a bottle of water in Cantonese. I know it may not seem so but with the right inflection and speed of voice it can. Just saying.

What does it sound like in the Sichuanese dialect of Mandarin?

Cruz Clearance
06-12-2017, 07:31 PM
Fixed it for you ;)



True story. Years ago I am out with a friend in Dubai during Ramadan. Bars are all pretty slow then because, well it's Ramadan. So we walk into a bar in Bur Dubai that has very few people in it and sit down for a beer. A few minutes later an older gentlemen gets up from a table nearby and starts heading for the exit. My friend sees him and calls out his name. The guy comes over and they exchange greetings and make introductions for me. The guy is an A scale Cathay 747 captain on a layover who just happens to live in Thailand where my friend does (small world). Anyway we get to chatting and they get around to the topic of my friends brother. My friends brother (American by the way) was at Cathay for 8 years in the 90s and early 2000s. He was not successful at upgrade on the 747 fleet and left Cathay because of that.



When I say not successful, it's not that he failed any training events. He went through training fine, in fact very well by all accounts. So this guy we are talking to, a British 747 captain relates what he knows of the story. Back then (and still now, I don't know) all upgrade decisions went to something called the Star Chamber which was a group who decided whether or not someone would be blessed as a captain after their training was finished. So my friends brother's file gets there and the decision is made not to allow him to be a captain. The reason, now relayed to us by this guy sitting across the table is that the (British) 747 fleet manager/chief pilot said, "I will not have an American as a captain on my fleet".



As the Brits say "rubbish". I have a friend there (American) who upgraded on the 747 years ago and is still there.

Typhoonpilot
06-13-2017, 06:48 AM
As the Brits say "rubbish". I have a friend there (American) who upgraded on the 747 years ago and is still there.


Americans upgrading on the 747 freighter fleet is different. This story is not rubbish, it happened prior to the large number of Americans getting hired onto the freighters.

Kenny
06-13-2017, 09:46 AM
The infamous Star Chamber was very, very real. I have a photocopy of the actual Star Chamber hit list with marks notating which poor sods were to be fired and end up being part of the '49ers.

Not exactly a high point in Cathay's history....

Cruz Clearance
06-14-2017, 01:29 AM
Yep, knew a guy who went there direct entry Freighter Captain, fired/asked to leave halfway thru training. Another who went as a second officer. Finished "ioe" handshake from check airman, you're good to go mate and all that.
A couple days later gets called in and told they will give him one more chance and has to do it again.

Star chamber failed him based on the comments on the line check papers he already passed. And it was total BS niggling little stuff.

Papoo
06-14-2017, 06:00 AM
The training is tough, and they are very particular. Their command failure rate is higher than industry average. That said, it's always been this way.

Typhoon, you are indeed talking rubbish.

There are plenty of American captains across all fleets, stemming from far before direct entry freighter captains.

Typhoonpilot
06-14-2017, 06:47 AM
The training is tough, and they are very particular. Their command failure rate is higher than industry average. That said, it's always been this way.

Typhoon, you are indeed talking rubbish.

There are plenty of American captains across all fleets, stemming from far before direct entry freighter captains.


It's a first hand story so how could it be rubbish? Just reiterating what the senior captain said to us.

There are plenty of American captains now, but there definitely were not back then.

galaxy flyer
06-14-2017, 07:20 AM
A Brit chief pilot refusing an upgrade due to candidate not being British--I'm shocked, just shocked.

GF

Papoo
06-14-2017, 07:31 AM
A Brit chief pilot refusing an upgrade due to candidate not being British--I'm shocked, just shocked.

GF

We live in hope, GF:D

starship
06-14-2017, 03:50 PM
Anybody know what the typical schedules and average days off are on the 747 freighter side? See them flying a lot to the US..just wondering. Thanks in advance.

Typhoonpilot
06-14-2017, 06:53 PM
A Brit chief pilot refusing an upgrade due to candidate not being British--I'm shocked, just shocked.

GF


Not wanting to be misunderstood, I have to say that two of my best bosses in flying have been British. Also have many good friends from their ranks, so I wouldn't say it is British culture as much as Cathay culture.

Beaver Hunter
06-14-2017, 07:24 PM
The training is tough, and they are very particular. Their command failure rate is higher than industry average. That said, it's always been this way.

Typhoon, you are indeed talking rubbish.

There are plenty of American captains across all fleets, stemming from far before direct entry freighter captains.
I knew the victim of this particular star chamber assignation. It is very true and continues to this day.
CX is a toxic wasteland of broken dreams.

Braniff DC8
06-15-2017, 10:02 PM
From what I am hearing, it's as bad as it's every been at CX. People are leaving en masse now not just because of the terrible terms and conditions, but more to save their health. The task is still there but less people to do it so it's a vicious cycle. Then there is a great chance of an accident due to all the cuts. I think they have FINALLY drawn the attention of the Civil Aviation Department.

CX approached Atlas a couple of years back to take the entire freighter operation but they said they could not. IF management was smart at Atlas, they'd get a contract and would have more flying than they would know what to do with. I am in no way condoning guys losing their jobs at CX but that may happen or sign a new deal, as has been done before, to keep your job, albeit on another fleet. I think CX will outsource the freighters to multiple airlines or just sell it off to UPS or FedEx who would kill to have it.

In 1982 Braniff sold the South America operation to Eastern and shut down, as did Eastern albeit 10 years later, quickly after that. In 1985 Pan Am sold the entire, and only profitable, Pacific operation to United for 500 million dollars. It was a drop in the bucket. Pan Am would be gone six years later. Honorable mention goes out to; Swissair, Eastern, again, and again it appears, TWA, ALL THE POST DEREGULATION CARRIERS, Lauda, LOTS OF BRITISH AIRLINES, and the list goes on.

The CX dream is over, it has been for the last few years but some still hung on for hope and change, remember that? Now more are realizing it's time to leave not time to win. The DFO is helping to help sink the titanic that was once a great airline.:eek: This is not the only time in history, as mentioned previously, that this has happened.

I think that CX will be gone in two or less years.:confused:

Papoo
06-16-2017, 10:50 AM
It's a first hand story so how could it be rubbish? Just reiterating what the senior captain said to us.

There are plenty of American captains now, but there definitely were not back then.

Obviously you would know better than me.:confused:

Americans have faired just as well any other nationality. Some may feel hard done by, but that's across all nationalities.

There are American captains sat very, very high up on the seniority list.

John Carr
06-16-2017, 02:34 PM
I remember talking to a Cathay pilot on a van once, he was Canadian.

I asked him if it was as hard as they say, as well as if they might have slight disdain for Americans. His reply was;

"Well, you have to understand that the British think they invented flying, as well as the 747. Also, we Canadians were glad when they started hiring Americans, because it got them to stop being such A-holes to us".

C130driver
06-16-2017, 09:02 PM
I remember talking to a Cathay pilot on a van once, he was Canadian.

I asked him if it was as hard as they say, as well as if they might have slight disdain for Americans. His reply was;

"Well, you have to understand that the British think they invented flying, as well as the 747. Also, we Canadians were glad when they started hiring Americans, because it got them to stop being such A-holes to us".

Alternate history for the brits...Americans invented flying and 11 AND 39 years later we used that invention to save them from the Luftwaffe. And how can you be an a-hole to Canadians, they are the nicest people.

Braniff DC8
06-16-2017, 10:29 PM
There's the Aussies! I have heard that THEY are the worst to fly with AND that accent.

"Lock yourself in a broom closet with the crocodile hunter for twelve hours and see what it's like", was what I was told.

Crikey:mad:

PotatoChip
06-17-2017, 02:52 AM
Alternate history for the brits...Americans invented flying and 11 AND 39 years later we used that invention to save them from the Luftwaffe. And how can you be an a-hole to Canadians, they are the nicest people.

"Invented flying"... lol.
Yeah, that Leonardo DaVinci guy was from Staten Island, right??
First in flight is different from inventing.

John Carr
06-17-2017, 03:23 AM
And how can you be an a-hole to Canadians, they are the nicest people.

Probably guilt by (geographic) association.

"The Colonies" and all.......

captjns
06-18-2017, 03:14 AM
There's the Aussies! I have heard that THEY are the worst to fly with AND that accent.

"Lock yourself in a broom closet with the crocodile hunter for twelve hours and see what it's like", was what I was told.

Crikey:mad:

You've heard wrong mate. Great bunch of people to fly with. Good sticks too... and this is first hand experience. Kiwis are a great lot too.

Kenny
06-18-2017, 10:14 AM
You've heard wrong mate. Great bunch of people to fly with. Good sticks too... and this is first hand experience. Kiwis are a great lot too.

The ones that manage to get out of the Petri dish of all things Australian aviation can be some of the best work colleagues you'll ever share a flight deck with. On the other hand some, that whinge about how things are so much better in Oz can be an embarrassment.

After almost 6 years flying for Virgin in Oz, I got the distinct impression that while the Yanks may have invented flying, the Oztranaughts perfected it......����

Papoo, you've probably been with CX since sometime in the 2000's. Trust me, before that in the 70's, 80's and 90's the sentiment was very different.

PotatoChip
06-20-2017, 05:39 AM
+1 For Aussies being the worst group to fly with as a whole.
From personal experience.
All of them? Of course not. As a group? I'd rather fly with pretty much anyone else. Sorry, mates, lighten up a touch in the cockpit...

John Carr
06-20-2017, 09:34 AM
+1 For Aussies being the worst group to fly with as a whole.
From personal experience.
All of them? Of course not. As a group? I'd rather fly with pretty much anyone else. Sorry, mates, lighten up a touch in the cockpit...

A friend of mine at EK said of the pilots from western countries the enjoys flying with the least are Australian and British. But as you said, not ALL, but most.

Enjoys NZ and SA much more.

The Dominican
06-20-2017, 02:31 PM
How people behave in a flight deck has very little to do with where they are from....., there are a holes in every country:rolleyes:

PotatoChip
06-21-2017, 03:50 AM
How people behave in a flight deck has very little to do with where they are from....., there are a holes in every country:rolleyes:

Oz just seems to have a higher percentage.

Ludicrous Speed
06-21-2017, 06:13 AM
"Invented flying"... lol.
Yeah, that Leonardo DaVinci guy was from Staten Island, right??
First in flight is different from inventing.

Don't mess with American exceptionalism!
;)

ROFF
06-21-2017, 08:15 PM
Good guys mostly. Same as anywhere else. There's some wankers in the bunch.

Unfortunately the upper levels have a lot to do with the crap culture.

Managers who think that their position will somehow make a certain appendage bigger.

Ausflyer
06-30-2017, 08:21 PM
I'm an Aussie and even I'd want to top myself after an experience like that :)

There's the Aussies! I have heard that THEY are the worst to fly with AND that accent.

"Lock yourself in a broom closet with the crocodile hunter for twelve hours and see what it's like", was what I was told.

Crikey:mad:

oicur12
07-15-2017, 08:33 PM
Potato chip

Im interested to know what it is about us Australians that requires us to lighten up in the cockpit?

Im not disagreeing, just curious.

PotatoChip
07-16-2017, 04:03 AM
Potato chip

Im interested to know what it is about us Australians that requires us to lighten up in the cockpit?

Im not disagreeing, just curious.

From my experience... friendly, great guys to grab a beverage with, but once the cockpit door closes no one is more anal. I've been quoted the book by Aussies more than anyone else (without asking what the book says).

Typhoonpilot
07-16-2017, 05:09 AM
From my experience... friendly, great guys to grab a beverage with, but once the cockpit door closes no one is more anal. I've been quoted the book by Aussies more than anyone else (without asking what the book says).


I have worked with pilots from pretty much every major country. The problem with generalizations is that, well, they're generalizations. My first instructor on the B777 (sim and line training) was an Australian. Great guy who I learned a lot from.

If you ask pilots not from America for a generalization of American pilots it will likely be that they are cowboys who don't follow SOPs and can't use standard phraseology on the radio.

In the case of Australians the anal retentive or pedantic tag comes up quite often, just as the cowboy tag comes up quite often when speaking about Americans. So there must be some element of truth to these stereotypes, and in my experience there is. As with all pilot groups there are the 10%ers. In the case of the Australians, the worst 10%ers are anal retentive/pedantic pricks, but the vast majority are fine. Just like with Americans the 10%ers are cowboys who don't follow SOPs and wouldn't know a standard radio call if it bit them in the behind, but again the vast majority are fine.

That's my two cents. Now someone please direct me to Kitty Hawk, NC :D

Beaver Hunter
07-19-2017, 05:35 PM
One reason American RT is as you say bad. It really is not. It's just not standard ICAO. The reason is primarily due to the massive amounts of radio communication taking place. My theory when asked about my RT. My answer is that communication took place between the two parties in the most efficient and effective ways. We both understand what each wants from the other. In the end, is that not the point?

C130driver
07-19-2017, 07:28 PM
I have worked with pilots from pretty much every major country. The problem with generalizations is that, well, they're generalizations. My first instructor on the B777 (sim and line training) was an Australian. Great guy who I learned a lot from.

If you ask pilots not from America for a generalization of American pilots it will likely be that they are cowboys who don't follow SOPs and can't use standard phraseology on the radio.

In the case of Australians the anal retentive or pedantic tag comes up quite often, just as the cowboy tag comes up quite often when speaking about Americans. So there must be some element of truth to these stereotypes, and in my experience there is. As with all pilot groups there are the 10%ers. In the case of the Australians, the worst 10%ers are anal retentive/pedantic pricks, but the vast majority are fine. Just like with Americans the 10%ers are cowboys who don't follow SOPs and wouldn't know a standard radio call if it bit them in the behind, but again the vast majority are fine.

That's my two cents. Now someone please direct me to Kitty Hawk, NC :D

Agreed, and at least on the Royal Australian Air Force Side, those guys are awesome, they'll drink anyone under the table and super laid back to work with. They also have no problem flying 250kt low levels at 150A

Adlerdriver
07-19-2017, 09:06 PM
One reason American RT is as you say bad. It really is not. It's just not standard ICAO. The reason is primarily due to the massive amounts of radio communication taking place. My theory when asked about my RT. My answer is that communication took place between the two parties in the most efficient and effective ways. We both understand what each wants from the other. In the end, is that not the point? I'll readily admit I'm a radio nazi. After flying in Asia, especially China and a few other spots where English is barely a second language I completely disagree.

I you're going to fly 100% of your career in the US, then whatever "not standard ICAO" trucker comm you want to use will probably work. I hear plenty of US pilots flying internationally who need some re-education badly. It's embarrassing.

To your final point, just because you think you're communicating in an "efficient and effective" non-ICAO way doesn't mean the guy on the other end is going to think the same thing, especially outside the US. You think there aren't airspace sectors throughout Europe and Asia that rival sectors in the US for "massive amounts of radio communication"?

There's no guarantee a radio call is ever going to accomplish exactly what you want, but the best chance one has of success is using standards accepted worldwide. Some guys can switch from US "bro comm" to ICAO standard depending on their location but most can't. Better to make every radio call as perfect and standard as possible than fall into bad habits at the most inopportune moment when it might matter more than you think.

oicur12
07-23-2017, 04:26 PM
Beaver hunter

The rt in the US is busy because of all of the non standard froth and bubble folksy nonsense that goes on. And also because of the fake additional atc calls used to justify staffing numbers.

Braniff DC8
07-23-2017, 07:48 PM
If memory serves, CX used to call level at ALL levels. I believe they were told SHUTENZEEUP!

Has anyone here ever flown to FRANCE? I mean Sacre Bleu, Merde!

Anyone can access the "ICAO-Radio Phraseology Handbook" online. I think it's free. I don't think any of the U.S. majors spend anytime on this topic. It is near and dear to me and I try politely correct my cockpit mates as I think it's important. It's not all that hard. Keep in mind, it doesn't only apply to ATC!

I think everyone should read the book. Every airline should spend a day on talking on the radio.

Beaver Hunter
07-26-2017, 05:47 PM
I'll readily admit I'm a radio nazi. After flying in Asia, especially China and a few other spots where English is barely a second language I completely disagree.

I you're going to fly 100% of your career in the US, then whatever "not standard ICAO" trucker comm you want to use will probably work. I hear plenty of US pilots flying internationally who need some re-education badly. It's embarrassing.

To your final point, just because you think you're communicating in an "efficient and effective" non-ICAO way doesn't mean the guy on the other end is going to think the same thing, especially outside the US. You think there aren't airspace sectors throughout Europe and Asia that rival sectors in the US for "massive amounts of radio communication"?

There's no guarantee a radio call is ever going to accomplish exactly what you want, but the best chance one has of success is using standards accepted worldwide. Some guys can switch from US "bro comm" to ICAO standard depending on their location but most can't. Better to make every radio call as perfect and standard as possible than fall into bad habits at the most inopportune moment when it might matter more than you think.

Standard RT is a very nice goal. Like healthcare for all. The reality is that most of the world doesn't use proper ICAO RT. One is then left with using regional variance. The point I was trying to make was that your communication has to be adjusted to meet the needs of the controller. Many times I am finding that to not be ICAO perfect.

Braniff DC8
07-27-2017, 07:43 PM
Force them (ATC and others) to use ICAO standard. I know it's difficult but it's incumbent on us to make the standard, standard! In India they won't answer you if they don't understand you. It has to be ICAO radio there. Yes, I know, it's not perfect. Nowhere is.

An example, "Confirm to descend to 10,000 confirm QNH". It then forces ATC to speak properly. I also think ground communications, cockpit to ground, is important as well.

Lastly, and MOST importantly, THERE IS NO SUCH CLEARANCE AS CLEARED TO GO! It's cleared for takeoff AND the runway number! Rwy 8 in Runway 08!

The Dominican
07-28-2017, 03:11 AM
It would be nice if people take a look at their charts while enroute and familiarize themselves with the FIR boundaries....., A little hint.., those are the ETA's that ATC wants to know about. The read back over and over again of an FIR is getting ridiculous...., specially when some folks just read back something similar sounding pretending that they understood just to look for it on their legs page later.

While I'm asking for my impossible wish list...., how about taking a glance at the available FL's for that route segment..., FL so and so, "Not available" How about FL so and so? "Not available" and So and so? "Not available" Can you accept FL so and so? (The next standard enroute level for that segment) Ummmmm. No sorry, too heavy!:rolleyes:



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1