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View Full Version : How to ask to upgrade


Lear333
04-28-2017, 05:08 PM
I currently hold a PIC type but I am hired as an SIC in a Lear 45/75. I finally meet the requirements (insurance) for PIC. Should I try to convince my boss (owner) to make me a co-captain? The guy I fly with told me I should, I just don't know how to approach my boss with the idea. Also, the raise would be nice.


flightview
04-28-2017, 11:33 PM
You ask for a meeting, go in and be prepared to state your case. Explain your qualifications:

-hours
-responsibility
-ability to work well with others
-demonstrating good leadership
-successes In teamwork, working well with others.
-work history (never late, takes additional flights willingly)

Good luck! You deserve it.


There's nothing wrong with asking.

David Puddy
04-29-2017, 05:51 AM
I currently hold a PIC type but I am hired as an SIC in a Lear 45/75. I finally meet the requirements (insurance) for PIC. Should I try to convince my boss (owner) to make me a co-captain? The guy I fly with told me I should, I just don't know how to approach my boss with the idea. Also, the raise would be nice.

Completely agree with the above post. Very well stated. Your "implied" leverage: there are plenty of airlines hiring....


TiredSoul
04-29-2017, 07:22 AM
I used to work for somebody who had a couple of degrees in Business.
So I go in asking for a raise.
He's like I was wondering when you'd come in.
I countered with 'well you could have offered'.
He's like 'why should I pay you more for doing the same job?'
Me: ' because I'm really good at what I do'
Him: ' so why should I pay you more for doing the job I hired you to do?'

Be prepared for a conversation like this.
Practice with a buddy as this sort of thing can really throw you off your game.

Lear333
04-29-2017, 04:46 PM
You ask for a meeting, go in and be prepared to state your case. Explain your qualifications:

-hours
-responsibility
-ability to work well with others
-demonstrating good leadership
-successes In teamwork, working well with others.
-work history (never late, takes additional flights willingly)

Good luck! You deserve it.


There's nothing wrong with asking.

Thanks for the awesome advice. I have a month before I can ask for my performance review and ill ask then.

Lear333
04-29-2017, 04:47 PM
I used to work for somebody who had a couple of degrees in Business.
So I go in asking for a raise.
He's like I was wondering when you'd come in.
I countered with 'well you could have offered'.
He's like 'why should I pay you more for doing the same job?'
Me: ' because I'm really good at what I do'
Him: ' so why should I pay you more for doing the job I hired you to do?'

Be prepared for a conversation like this.
Practice with a buddy as this sort of thing can really throw you off your game.

Good point! I never thought of that. I think that the question for a promotion will help. He has been considering hiring a third pilot and I would hope to become PIC instead of him hiring another one.

flightview
04-29-2017, 05:25 PM
Good point! I never thought of that. I think that the question for a promotion will help. He has been considering hiring a third pilot and I would hope to become PIC instead of him hiring another one.



You can hit on some points here. If you can explain upgrading you to PIC will save their company money because you're already trained.

pilot0987
04-29-2017, 06:21 PM
You can hit on some points here. If you can explain upgrading you to PIC will save their company money because you're already trained.

Not sure if saving them money would be valid since they would have to hire and train another pic typed pilot

flightview
04-29-2017, 06:24 PM
Not sure if saving them money would be valid since they would have to hire and train another pic typed pilot



I read it as the company could either hire another pilot or upgrade him to PIC. \_(ツ)_/

kingairfun
05-03-2017, 05:48 PM
Depending on the type of owner,it's a leverage game...

Like someone said, airlines are hiring.. I wouldn't say it as an altimatum though..

I'd go in and ask, state your case.. If they say no, get some airline interviews. When you get a hired letter from the airline, go back in and ask again, this time with an altimatum.

Having something to fall back on makes all the difference in the world when negotiating job terms.

Lear333
05-10-2017, 08:59 AM
Here is the newest update:

My company is now dispatching me as PIC. Do you think it is safe to ask the owner for a raise since I am flying as Co-Captain?

aa010175
05-10-2017, 12:22 PM
Here is the newest update:

My company is now dispatching me as PIC. Do you think it is safe to ask the owner for a raise since I am flying as Co-Captain?

How much TPIC time do you have? 500+ hours. He might just tell the dispatcher to stop using your name for PIC. I assume your still sitting right seat and logging time as PIC as your name in on the paperwork. Before you rock the boat get enough TPIC time to elsewhere.

Lear333
05-10-2017, 12:27 PM
How much TPIC time do you have? 500+ hours. He might just tell the dispatcher to stop using your name for PIC. I assume your still sitting right seat and logging time as PIC as your name in on the paperwork. Before you rock the boat get enough TPIC time to elsewhere.



I have 1000 turbine with about 750 turbine PIC.


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JohnBurke
05-10-2017, 02:42 PM
Up to the owner. 750 turbine PIC isnt much leverage, or a very broad experience base for anything.

If you feel your experience and qualification makes you competitive against others who would apply, then ask for a raise commensurate with your qualification.

Be prepared before you approach management, and be armed with a comparison of your pay, comparitive worth, qualification, and know your potential competition.

If the company can hire a typed pilot with 5000 PIC in type and they're beating down the door looking for work, then that's your competition. If the only applicants are 250 hour wonders, then you're more qualified than the competition. If the company has invested in you with training and not the other guy, or needs to put less training into you, then you're ahead of the competition. Remember that you're a known quantity whereas your potential competition is not, which gives you a potential home field advantage.

Is your 250 hours turbine PIC actual pilot in command experience, or sole manipulator experience when someone else was the PIC?

If the company is presently recognizing you as PIC, then you should be paid accordingly.

Lear333
05-11-2017, 07:58 AM
Up to the owner. 750 turbine PIC isnt much leverage, or a very broad experience base for anything.

If you feel your experience and qualification makes you competitive against others who would apply, then ask for a raise commensurate with your qualification.

Be prepared before you approach management, and be armed with a comparison of your pay, comparitive worth, qualification, and know your potential competition.

If the company can hire a typed pilot with 5000 PIC in type and they're beating down the door looking for work, then that's your competition. If the only applicants are 250 hour wonders, then you're more qualified than the competition. If the company has invested in you with training and not the other guy, or needs to put less training into you, then you're ahead of the competition. Remember that you're a known quantity whereas your potential competition is not, which gives you a potential home field advantage.

Is your 250 hours turbine PIC actual pilot in command experience, or sole manipulator experience when someone else was the PIC?

If the company is presently recognizing you as PIC, then you should be paid accordingly.



My TPIC have been as a dispatched PIC. Thanks for the info! Before I got hired, the airplane was flown with just contract pilots for months. I don't think there is a crazy amount of competition for it, at least locally. Before I got hired on, the owner personally talked to me to make sure I was going to stay for a while. They had a history of high turnover.


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Lear333
05-15-2017, 10:02 PM
I just got "upgraded" by the company but the owner has not formally "upgraded" me in the sense that he has not given me a raise. In my next performance review, should I ask for a raise in commensurate with the industry pay rate? I do not know how to approach this.

I have been offered higher pay but I like flying for my boss and I do not want to risk changing my lifestyle. How do I get a raise without sounding like I am threatening to leave?

esa17
05-18-2017, 06:14 AM
I just got "upgraded" by the company but the owner has not formally "upgraded" me in the sense that he has not given me a raise. In my next performance review, should I ask for a raise in commensurate with the industry pay rate? I do not know how to approach this.

I have been offered higher pay but I like flying for my boss and I do not want to risk changing my lifestyle. How do I get a raise without sounding like I am threatening to leave?

Tell the boss you love your job but cannot retire on job satisfaction. In this climate, if he's a smart dude, he will pay you more.

I used the PP16 survey a few weeks ago and got a HUGE raise. Paying you more is cheaper than hiring and training a new guy.

JETUPANDGO
05-18-2017, 07:25 AM
Don't approach the Boss on a trip. Make an appointment. If you'll be calling them directly for the appointment be prepared for them to say "what's up?", right there on the phone. Be honest, and be prepared to have them ask how much will it take for you to be happy. Don't expect them to throw a number at you.



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