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View Full Version : Next Merger?


Eskimointheair
04-30-2017, 04:23 AM
Hearing some strong rumors in my crash pad here in SEA that we are in the process of purchasing another airline...anyone else heard this yet? Seem to be some credible information behind it..

If true, can't be good for our JCBA timeline negotiations....


Saltlife85
04-30-2017, 05:11 AM
AS buying another airline soon?! Wow I can't see that. They blew 4billion on VX. Maybe a merger with JB or SW? Whatever happens it will be the last thing we think of and we will be the last ones to know. JB makes sense because of the route structures. SW makes sense all 737 and they want the etops and Hawaii markets badly. Who knows.. that being said it'll probably be sun country !

Pogey Bait
04-30-2017, 05:28 AM
Skywest.....


motorboatin
04-30-2017, 05:36 AM
Hearing some strong rumors in my crash pad here in SEA that we are in the process of purchasing another airline...anyone else heard this yet? Seem to be some credible information behind it..

If true, can't be good for our JCBA timeline negotiations....

There was a strong rumor in my crash pad that the dude in bunk #1 ate the leftover pizza belonging to the dude in bunk #4!! Ended up being overshadowed by the BiG announcement that was apparently coming from corporate about a merger. That ended up actually being an announcement regarding an updated software approval for iPads!

Start a thread with "hearing some strong rumors in my crashpad..." and be prepared for ridicule. Btw...I was the one that ate the pizza and I'm in bunk #5 💩😏

Work2much
04-30-2017, 06:33 AM
Hearing some strong rumors in my crash pad here in SEA that we are in the process of purchasing another airline...anyone else heard this yet? Seem to be some credible information behind it..

If true, can't be good for our JCBA timeline negotiations....

My vote is for Sun Country

Mea25000
04-30-2017, 08:07 AM
It's all true... saw GK in Sea the other day so the merger with SWA must be inevitable.

We will have a JCBA in October, SLI well that may be a different story.

beech_nut
04-30-2017, 08:20 AM
Please buy spirit :(

beech1980
04-30-2017, 08:38 AM
My vote is for Sun Country

I heard Sun Country higher up's where in Seattle last week. If it would drag out negotiations it might be worth it to buy Sun Country. The longer management doesn't have to pay market rates the better for them.

Mea25000
04-30-2017, 08:56 AM
They can't drag it out... We go to arbitration August 28th. If they buy someone else and they are Alpa then there would then be another TPA and JCBA timeline for that merger. Alaska management will have to pay up in 4 mos no matter what else they do or don't do in the future.

beech1980
04-30-2017, 09:14 AM
They can't drag it out... We go to arbitration August 28th. If they buy someone else and they are Alpa then there would then be another TPA and JCBA timeline for that merger. Alaska management will have to pay up in 4 mos no matter what else they do or don't do in the future.

That's what I meant about dragging it out.

Jetlife
04-30-2017, 03:34 PM
I have heard JB rumors more than once here.

RiddleEagle18
04-30-2017, 03:44 PM
I have heard JB rumors more than once here.



Airline ceo's are just dumb enough to do that. Bidding war for virgin and then end up merging and both taking on the ridiculous debt load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Baronpilot
04-30-2017, 06:47 PM
Hearing some strong rumors in my crash pad here in SEA that we are in the process of purchasing another airline...anyone else heard this yet? Seem to be some credible information behind it..

If true, can't be good for our JCBA timeline negotiations....

It's the recurring hot rumor going around SY right now, having flared up again yesterday.

Klsytakesit
04-30-2017, 10:52 PM
unless of course an 11th hour TA pops out of mediation.....Road shows...voting...results.....no vote......start the whole process over......re evaluate.....direct negotiations.....mediation.....etc etc....Timeline goes out the window

DMEarc
05-01-2017, 05:25 AM
I heard Sun Country higher up's where in Seattle last week. If it would drag out negotiations it might be worth it to buy Sun Country. The longer management doesn't have to pay market rates the better for them.

What does Sun Country have that Alaska can't do on their own?

You don't merge with someone just to merge, there has to be cost savings, strategic advantages, assets.

But merging for a small MSP presence and 13 737s? Makes no sense.

JetBlue is the only logical mate.

coolyokeluke
05-01-2017, 05:37 AM
What does Sun Country have that Alaska can't do on their own?

You don't merge with someone just to merge, there has to be cost savings, strategic advantages, assets.

But merging for a small MSP presence and 13 737s? Makes no sense.

JetBlue is the only logical mate.

Perhaps they want to pull an Atlas type move. Atlas purchased Southern (and Florida West Cargo, or some entity like that) I think in part to re-set and therefore stall contract negotiations. Would an acquisition of Sun Country (probably wouldn't cost all that much) put negotiations back to square one?

PiperPower
05-01-2017, 05:43 AM
What does Sun Country have that Alaska can't do on their own?

You don't merge with someone just to merge, there has to be cost savings, strategic advantages, assets.

But merging for a small MSP presence and 13 737s? Makes no sense.

JetBlue is the only logical mate.

It's 23 737's, however they're all leased. It does give them immediate presence in the Midwest without having to start from scratch. And considering we're talking about the same airline that bought Jet America... I think anything is possible. Frankly I was more taken back by their Virgin acquisition than I would be by a Sun Country buyout.
Alaska also just announced two new destinations in/out of MSP; SFO and I think LAX? Just about about every city that SY goes to out of MSP in the continental US, so does Alaska. Lots of overlap. The operations do align a lot more than you think.

beech1980
05-01-2017, 07:22 AM
What does Sun Country have that Alaska can't do on their own?

You don't merge with someone just to merge, there has to be cost savings, strategic advantages, assets.

But merging for a small MSP presence and 13 737s? Makes no sense.

JetBlue is the only logical mate.

Cost savings would be an established base, Mx hangars, 23 planes, crews, ground equipment, a simulator. The assets are all here. It's a major market grab, and a presence in the middle of the country. They need to grow in middle America. AS/VA already has a coast to coast presence, To compete with Delta. I don't think Alaska has the money left to buy JetBlue. Sun country might only cost a couple hundred million not a couple billion.

Jetlife
05-01-2017, 07:39 AM
Make NO mistake. The merger with VX wasn't a merger. It was an acquisition. Acquiring Sun Country is much much different than merging. From an assets standpoint it might make sense to acquire Sun Country.

beech1980
05-01-2017, 07:54 AM
Make NO mistake. The merger with VX wasn't a merger. It was an acquisition. Acquiring Sun Country is much much different than merging. From an assets standpoint it might make sense to acquire Sun Country.

It would be an acquisition.

Jetlife
05-01-2017, 07:57 AM
It would be an acquisition.

I know it would. That's why I mentioned it. Many were saying it wouldn't make sense for a merger, well don't think of it from a mutual beneficial merger standpoint, start thinking from an acquisition standpoint.

Work2much
05-01-2017, 08:14 AM
It would be an acquisition.

Thissss....

Flyby1206
05-01-2017, 09:56 AM
AS+Sun Country assumes that AS wants a MSP hub for connecting traffic like everyone else does. I believe AS (and JetBlue) want to focus on their coastal hubs and fly to smaller Midwest airports direct. Bypassing those legacy hubs eliminates a lot of BS.

Thus, AS+JB would be a better match. They could each continue to focus on their hubs and flying to the Midwest. They could offer a huge amount of 1-stop itineraries from coast to coast without relying on a big hub in the middle. BOS/JFK/MCO/FLL-STL-SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX and you could replace STL with dozens of Midwest cities.

And for the Midwest based pax they could offer direct service to the big coastal city.

AltoCumulus
05-01-2017, 11:37 AM
Make NO mistake. The merger with VX wasn't a merger. It was an acquisition. Acquiring Sun Country is much much different than merging. From an assets standpoint it might make sense to acquire Sun Country.

So what? I know there are accounting and legal differences but I haven't seen it matter any to line pilots in recent history-say the last 20-30 years give or take.

Mea25000
05-01-2017, 11:48 AM
You are all on drugs... AS is not buying or merging with anyone, anytime soon, unless it was hostile. Jtblu or Hawaiian maybe but way down the road. Sun country well I would put the odds about the same as me winning the lottery

73plt
05-01-2017, 12:24 PM
Popcorn ready!
Rumors are swirling at SY right now. I typically don't fall for the hype, but it is sounding a little more credible this time around.

THE SHAFT
05-01-2017, 03:08 PM
I like rumors! If true would they close the MSP base? Seems to small to remain viable, cheaper just to hotel crews.

Bugaboo
05-01-2017, 07:39 PM
unless of course an 11th hour TA pops out of mediation.....Road shows...voting...results.....no vote......start the whole process over......re evaluate.....direct negotiations.....mediation.....etc etc....Timeline goes out the window

MEC better not think about sending anything out that will get a NO.

Packrat
05-01-2017, 08:27 PM
AS overspent for VX. They're not buying anyone else until the VX acquisition is fully digested. This is all the fevered imagination of some SY pilots HOPING someone will rescue them.

plt32173
05-01-2017, 10:51 PM
Let's get to the bottom line here. Another M&A isn't slowing down this JCBA. This smells of management head games. 50+1 isn't going to get past our negotiatiators. They have plenty of support from the pilot group to send this to arbitration if they don't pay up. Give us what we deserve or roll the Dice.

WutFace
05-01-2017, 11:19 PM
I like rumors! If true would they close the MSP base? Seems to small to remain viable, cheaper just to hotel crews.

Closing MSP would be disastrous if AS acquired SY. The only reason anyone works there is because they live in the Twin Cities.

Acquiring SY and then closing MSP would be the most expensive 737 delivery in history.

BiloxiJack
05-02-2017, 06:03 AM
Yeah but if they stay with Alaska then they can make cool posts with sweet hashtags like "I am Alaska." Also, you're given the opportunity to comment on company articles giving over the top thanks to management like you're thanking the great leader of North Korea.. non compliance results in reminders of how to comment
Closing MSP would be disastrous if AS acquired SY. The only reason anyone works there is because they live in the Twin Cities.

Acquiring SY and then closing MSP would be the most expensive 737 delivery in history.

mike734
05-02-2017, 08:07 AM
I'm currently watching Congressional hearings about airline customer service. Based on the kinds of questions being asked by (very ignorant Congressmen), it doesn't seem any more mergers are likely.

Flyby1206
05-02-2017, 10:32 AM
I'm currently watching Congressional hearings about airline customer service. Based on the kinds of questions being asked by (very ignorant Congressmen), it doesn't seem any more mergers are likely.

Give it a month. Everyone will forget about it.

OCCP
05-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Yeah but if they stay with Alaska then they can make cool posts with sweet hashtags like "I am Alaska." Also, you're given the opportunity to comment on company articles giving over the top thanks to management like you're thanking the great leader of North Korea.. non compliance results in reminders of how to comment



That's funny! I thought the same thing when they put out an article on how to comment. Reading the comments section is like reading propaganda.

Arctichicken
05-02-2017, 02:24 PM
We, the employees, will find out on CNN and usually the last to know. It was the same in the military. So much for the "tip of the spear" theory.

Packrat
05-02-2017, 03:29 PM
They have plenty of support from the pilot group to send this to arbitration if they don't pay up.

Be careful what you wish for. The Company wanted an 11% across the board pay cut, but the MEC held out for arbitration. That arbitration that cost the Captains a 22% pay cut and the F/Os a 30+% pay cut.

Work2much
05-02-2017, 03:34 PM
Be careful what you wish for. I recall an arbitration that cost the Captains a 22% pay cut and the F/Os a 30+% pay cut.

How would you compare the airline industry environment between now and then?

Packrat
05-02-2017, 03:37 PM
How would you compare the airline industry environment between now and then?

Just sayin'. Arbitrators often consider more than pay scales. You might find yourself compared with Spirit and Frontier instead of Delta and American.

Arctichicken
05-02-2017, 07:09 PM
Just sayin'. Arbitrators often consider more than pay scales. You might find yourself compared with Spirit and Frontier instead of Delta and American.

I believe the union knew what they were getting into with Kasher and they still went for it. Of course, none of us on here can neither confirm nor deny this as factual info. Ego and emotions got the best of the MEC/NC.
You're right, the arbitrators will consider many factors but I for one will not be voting for anything less than industry leading in all three areas. None of us should accept anything less. This pilot group is entitled and deserves the best. It is long overdue. After all, we are the #1 airline in the U.S. by every standard including profit margin. I'm onboard. Are you?

Jetlife
05-02-2017, 07:13 PM
Be careful what you wish for. The Company wanted an 11% across the board pay cut, but the MEC held out for arbitration. That arbitration that cost the Captains a 22% pay cut and the F/Os a 30+% pay cut.

Sweet does that mean we get a 22% and 30% raise if it goes to arbitration now? I'll take it, plus 10% lol.

plt32173
05-02-2017, 09:37 PM
Be careful what you wish for. The Company wanted an 11% across the board pay cut, but the MEC held out for arbitration. That arbitration that cost the Captains a 22% pay cut and the F/Os a 30+% pay cut.

It's an educated risk I'm willing to take. Just cause you get bit hard at the table doesn't mean you shy away from doubling down on an 11. You keep a cool head and see the odds for what they are. Management sees it too. Bring it on. I can live with my decision.

MiLtoMajor123
05-02-2017, 09:48 PM
It's an educated risk I'm willing to take. Just cause you get bit hard at the table doesn't mean you shy away from doubling down on an 11. You keep a cool head and see the odds for what they are. Management sees it too. Bring it on. I can live with my decision.

Doesn't the house always eventually win statistically? :p

FMGEC
05-03-2017, 05:26 AM
Closing MSP would be disastrous if AS acquired SY. The only reason anyone works there is because they live in the Twin Cities.

Acquiring SY and then closing MSP would be the most expensive 737 delivery in history.

Not if SY "buys" AS... then AS would all merge into SY's list and take their pay scales. 😉 Instant cost savings.

plt32173
05-03-2017, 07:50 AM
Doesn't the house always eventually win statistically? :p

Haha. Yeah. They've already won. We're just try to walk away with something. They only have to negotiate 3 sections of a concessionary contract. That's why I dont think there should be a give and take with those three items. We've already given them the gift of not having to negotiate section 25 scheduling. We can't give them any room in Pay,Retirement, Scope.

ImperialxRat
05-03-2017, 08:15 AM
Haha. Yeah. They've already won. We're just try to walk away with something. They only have to negotiate 3 sections of a concessionary contract. That's why I dont think there should be a give and take with those three items. We've already given them the gift of not having to negotiate section 25 scheduling. We can't give them any room in Pay,Retirement, Scope.

I am new here, and I know I should probably just call my rep and ask this, but since you brought up scheduling I was wondering why we haven't cancelled some of these MOU's.

The MOU where we cannot trade a trip if it has more than a 4 hour start time difference... it says either party may cancel it with 30 days notice. I had an afternoon 3-day trip and was trying to trade for a morning 3-day trip on the exact same days. Reserve coverage was NEGATIVE in the morning and positive in the afternoon so it would have actually benefited the company!... denied due to the MOU.

It seems ridiculous to me... the only thing that should affect trading is reserve coverage.

Arctichicken
05-03-2017, 04:07 PM
I am new here, and I know I should probably just call my rep and ask this, but since you brought up scheduling I was wondering why we haven't cancelled some of these MOU's.

The MOU where we cannot trade a trip if it has more than a 4 hour start time difference... it says either party may cancel it with 30 days notice. I had an afternoon 3-day trip and was trying to trade for a morning 3-day trip on the exact same days. Reserve coverage was NEGATIVE in the morning and positive in the afternoon so it would have actually benefited the company!... denied due to the MOU.

It seems ridiculous to me... the only thing that should affect trading is reserve coverage.

The intent of this MOU was to free up trip trading since in the past, emaestro/crew scheduling would deny a great majority of trade requests in the name of "lack of reserve coverage". It worked for a little while, that is, until Crew Access (aka Crew NoAccess) came along. The company and the author of Crew NoAccess programed this sodomizer to deny any and all trades that do not meet the MOU criteria. So in essence, the company took this MOU which was designed to enhance our QOL and turned it into yet another anti-pilot weapon of destruction. I'm not against PBS but could you imagine what this company will do if we hand them the keys to PBS or any other scheduling venue?

MiLtoMajor123
05-03-2017, 05:03 PM
The intent of this MOU was to free up trip trading since in the past, emaestro/crew scheduling would deny a great majority of trade requests in the name of "lack of reserve coverage". It worked for a little while, that is, until Crew Access (aka Crew NoAccess) came along. The company and the author of Crew NoAccess programed this sodomizer to deny any and all trades that do not meet the MOU criteria. So in essence, the company took this MOU which was designed to enhance our QOL and turned it into yet another anti-pilot weapon of destruction. I'm not against PBS but could you imagine what this company will do if we hand them the keys to PBS or any other scheduling venue?

PBS isn't the problem...it's how crew support allows the transactions. At Skywest you could drop trips and pick up others all the time with PBS....you just had to get it approved and make sure you were legal to do so. In Fact I dropped a trip to go to my AS interview....someone pick up the whole trip no problem. The trick is you have to have someone pick it up or your still on the hook for it....least you call in sick. I honestly have no idea how AS's system works...I don't really care until i'm on the line....as I've got other things to worry about right now. I was just getting used to PBS when I left...and it makes life easier I would say....but I have nothing to compare it to. It just seemed flexible to what you wanted to do. Work more work less...drop/add.

BTW....I have no idea what MOU means..... I need a guide on all these new terms I've never had to deal with. The whole negotiations thing is completely over my head at this point.

Arctichicken
05-03-2017, 06:39 PM
PBS isn't the problem...it's how crew support allows the transactions. At Skywest you could drop trips and pick up others all the time with PBS....you just had to get it approved and make sure you were legal to do so. In Fact I dropped a trip to go to my AS interview....someone pick up the whole trip no problem. The trick is you have to have someone pick it up or your still on the hook for it....least you call in sick. I honestly have no idea how AS's system works...I don't really care until i'm on the line....as I've got other things to worry about right now. I was just getting used to PBS when I left...and it makes life easier I would say....but I have nothing to compare it to. It just seemed flexible to what you wanted to do. Work more work less...drop/add.

BTW....I have no idea what MOU means..... I need a guide on all these new terms I've never had to deal with. The whole negotiations thing is completely over my head at this point.

Not to be so sarcastic but you know how to Google $hit, right? C'mon dude, don't make us ex-mil types look bad.:rolleyes:
MOU=Memorandum of Understanding.
As for PBS, I don't want to revive an old thread. Fly the the line and experience first hand our wonderful company, crew scheduling, and bidding first hand, and then come to your own conclusions. This management group is not nearly as nice as that of SkyWest and our work rules are an embarrassment to our profession. Welcome to the jungle.

N19906
05-03-2017, 06:40 PM
"Memorandum Of Understanding"; a handshake agreement written down.
At least that's the idea.... "The Sodomizer"? Oh, that's funny! :rolleyes:

ImperialxRat
05-03-2017, 08:28 PM
I don't see how this MOU could enhance our quality of life when its only function is to limit our ability to trade trips.

The intent of this MOU was to free up trip trading since in the past, emaestro/crew scheduling would deny a great majority of trade requests in the name of "lack of reserve coverage". It worked for a little while, that is, until Crew Access (aka Crew NoAccess) came along. The company and the author of Crew NoAccess programed this sodomizer to deny any and all trades that do not meet the MOU criteria. So in essence, the company took this MOU which was designed to enhance our QOL and turned it into yet another anti-pilot weapon of destruction. I'm not against PBS but could you imagine what this company will do if we hand them the keys to PBS or any other scheduling venue?

OCCP
05-03-2017, 08:47 PM
Welcome to the jungle.



....it gets worse here everyday
You learn to live like an animal, in the jungle where we play

Arctichicken
05-03-2017, 08:54 PM
I don't see how this MOU could enhance our quality of life when its only function is to limit our ability to trade trips.

Re-read my post. You must've not been on the property when this MOU was signed. As I've said, this MOU was originally created to allow more trades as crew scheduling/emaestro was denying trip trades solely based on lack of reserve coverage. Believe it or not, it was an improvement at the time. With Crew NoAcces, the company is using it in their advantage and misapplying the MOU to deny trip trades. Capiche?

Arctichicken
05-03-2017, 09:04 PM
....it gets worse here everyday
You learn to live like an animal, in the jungle where we play

Ya know, this place used to be a pretty good career all before Kasher. 9/11, Kasher and most notably, company's unquenchable greed put our careers in a death spiral. I've learned to detach myself from this place. The company made it clear - I'm not Alaska! We are all just cogs in the wheel and I have learned to accept that. No corporation is perfect but this place gets exponentially dysfunctional day by day. Even in the jungle, life goes on.

ImperialxRat
05-03-2017, 10:10 PM
Actually that does help me understand. Thanks for taking the time to explain it again.

i imagine if we give the notice and get rid of this MOU then we would be back to not being able to trade at all due to "inadequate reserve coverage". So while it is annoying to not be able to trade for a trip more than 4 hours out, at least we are able to trade for a trip within 4 hours. Makes sense.

Re-read my post. You must've not been on the property when this MOU was signed. As I've said, this MOU was originally created to allow more trades as crew scheduling/emaestro was denying trip trades solely based on lack of reserve coverage. Believe it or not, it was an improvement at the time. With Crew NoAcces, the company is using it in their advantage and misapplying the MOU to deny trip trades. Capiche?

WhenPigsFLy
05-04-2017, 10:34 AM
Copa virtual merger is next

Foodstamps
05-04-2017, 08:53 PM
I believe the union knew what they were getting into with Kasher and they still went for it. Of course, none of us on here can neither confirm nor deny this as factual info. Ego and emotions got the best of the MEC/NC.
You're right, the arbitrators will consider many factors but I for one will not be voting for anything less than industry leading in all three areas. None of us should accept anything less. This pilot group is entitled and deserves the best. It is long overdue. After all, we are the #1 airline in the U.S. by every standard including profit margin. I'm onboard. Are you?

Amen brother. My orange lanyard is on and it's not coming off till a solid JCBA. I walked the picket line in SF the other day. Scope or a no vote. Industry average or better with legacy work rules ad retirement or they can pound sand. "Doing the right thing" is far beyond the capacity of the snakes in management who give themselves raises on the backs of their most important frontline employees. Enough is enough. Nearly everyone holds unanimous views at VX and we are not backing down, nor should any ALK pilot.

It's garbage, and in this negotiating environment...management is gonna get nailed to the f*cking wall.

~ Stampzilla

Packrat
05-05-2017, 10:53 AM
I believe the union knew what they were getting into with Kasher and they still went for it...Ego and emotions got the best of the MEC/NC.

Exactly right.

You're right, the arbitrators will consider many factors but I for one will not be voting for anything less than industry leading in all three areas. None of us should accept anything less. This pilot group is entitled and deserves the best. It is long overdue. After all, we are the #1 airline in the U.S. by every standard including profit margin.

Again, exactly right. Its about time Alaska pilots and F/As start getting what they deserve. It always amazes me that the Anglers are willing to shortchange, devalue and P.O. the people they lock their customers in to aluminum tubes for 1 to 6 hours.

And yet, the crews are able to compartmentalize all the Company stuff and deliver outstanding service. I guess they think all the J.D. Power awards come from Puzzle Palace service.

Foodstamps
05-06-2017, 06:41 AM
Exactly right.



Again, exactly right. Its about time Alaska pilots and F/As start getting what they deserve. It always amazes me that the Anglers are willing to shortchange, devalue and P.O. the people they lock their customers in to aluminum tubes for 1 to 6 hours.

And yet, the crews are able to compartmentalize all the Company stuff and deliver outstanding service. I guess they think all the J.D. Power awards come from Puzzle Palace service.

And they have the audacity to ask them to pimp their credit cards on top of it. (Lead FA on an Alaska flight just made the PA now on my commute...) Hey, make us more money while we pay you nothing in return and give ourselves raises. Now that's #iamalaska

Jetlife
05-06-2017, 06:44 AM
And they have the audacity to ask them to pimp their credit cards on top of it. (Lead FA on an Alaska flight just made the PA now on my commute...) Hey, make us more money while we pay you nothing in return and give ourselves raises. Now that's #iamalaska

I keep telling my wife that being an airline pilot by definition is a white collar job, but it feels like a blue collar job, and it's because of crap like this.

Packrat
05-06-2017, 12:28 PM
I keep telling my wife that being an airline pilot by definition is a white collar job, but it feels like a blue collar job, and it's because of crap like this.

Its not a white collar job. We are just labor. Period. And labor is the easiest cost to control in the airline business.

Fuel? Nope.
Leases? Nope.
Labor...BINGO.

juventus
05-06-2017, 01:44 PM
Jetlife , I'm not sure what is your point , are you an Alaska FA ?
If you are an Alaska pilot , you are making over 6 figures on your 3rd year , just to be fair , you are not a blue collar worker, not even close . That said , I also want to be paid present market rates .

Klsytakesit
05-06-2017, 09:49 PM
Jetlife , I'm not sure what is your point , are you an Alaska FA ?
If you are an Alaska pilot , you are making over 6 figures on your 3rd year , just to be fair , you are not a blue collar worker, not even close . That said , I also want to be paid present market rates .

Dont let your ignorance show.....most union iron workers, pipe fitters, boiler makers, carpenters, lineman, electricians etc make well in to six figures.....

Jetlife
05-06-2017, 09:55 PM
Jetlife , I'm not sure what is your point , are you an Alaska FA ?
If you are an Alaska pilot , you are making over 6 figures on your 3rd year , just to be fair , you are not a blue collar worker, not even close . That said , I also want to be paid present market rates .

If you are a seasoned, skilled trade worker and part of a union, you can make serious money. The lines are more blurry than you think.

AviatorAl04
05-07-2017, 03:18 AM
Soooo, still some rumor of some type of merger then? Curious whats been floating around.

juventus
05-07-2017, 09:56 AM
Yes and there are doctors and lawyers that make less then 6 figures as well. Whatever people .

WutFace
05-07-2017, 10:21 AM
Yes and there are doctors and lawyers that make less then 6 figures as well. Whatever people .

You are a faceless cog in the machine. Interchangeable. Replaceable. Doctors and lawyers can be identified by their own individual talents. In our industry there's no way to make such distinctions.

Wake up from your delusions. You're blue collar labor.

Packrat
05-07-2017, 10:40 AM
You are a faceless cog in the machine. Interchangeable. Replaceable. Doctors and lawyers can be identified by their own individual talents. In our industry there's no way to make such distinctions.

Wake up from your delusions. You're blue collar labor.

^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^

Mea25000
05-07-2017, 11:00 AM
There is no merger coming... wake up

Ispeakjive
05-07-2017, 04:07 PM
^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^

Yes. Blue collar. Probably the most technical and highly trained blue collars of any industry. We are high end truck drivers.

ShyGuy
05-07-2017, 05:25 PM
Check a pilot shirt, looks like a white collar to me :D

juventus
05-07-2017, 06:49 PM
You are a faceless cog in the machine. Interchangeable. Replaceable. Doctors and lawyers can be identified by their own individual talents. In our industry there's no way to make such distinctions.

Wake up from your delusions. You're blue collar labor.

A legacy wide body captain makes well north of 300k a year , and you think I'm delusional, if We are just skilled blue collars , then We are grossly overpaid, considering what average white collars jobs are paying .

tomgoodman
05-07-2017, 07:39 PM
Check a pilot shirt, looks like a white collar to me :D

Not after a few DC-9 legs in the summertime. :p

Klsytakesit
05-08-2017, 06:49 AM
Juv....you dont work at a legacy and you dont fly a widebody....You work for a small, west coast regional

ShyGuy
05-08-2017, 08:06 AM
Not after a few DC-9 legs in the summertime. :p

Haha!

A legacy wide body captain makes well north of 300k a year , and you think I'm delusional, if We are just skilled blue collars , then We are grossly overpaid, considering what average white collars jobs are paying .

I hear JetBlue pilots are blue collar :D

Tubby
05-08-2017, 08:33 AM
Be careful what you wish for. The Company wanted an 11% across the board pay cut, but the MEC held out for arbitration. That arbitration that cost the Captains a 22% pay cut and the F/Os a 30+% pay cut.

I remember the company asked for a 26% cut not 11%. I also remember ALPA publicly stating we were going to take a hit.
In addition it wasn't just pay the company wanted. They wanted the A plan badly. Thankfully Kasher never let them near it.

Klsytakesit
05-08-2017, 04:08 PM
Like you said......and Kasher knew we would cave and hand them the A plan in 09 so he stayed away....For all the geniuses fronting as pilots...How would you have removed the "arbitration side letter gun" from our heads....It had to go...It was put there, loaded and cocked by the previous generation.....At least we only had head wound when it was over....If you werent there, If you were enjoying an alternate source of income, If you did not live through it then keep your mouth shut and learn from it....The same people are still running Alaska Airlines.....

Xtreme87
05-08-2017, 04:59 PM
Haha!



I hear JetBlue pilots are blue collar :D

That's so we know our place in the world from day 1. The help.

Packrat
05-09-2017, 07:49 AM
I remember the company asked for a 26% cut not 11%. I also remember ALPA publicly stating we were going to take a hit.
In addition it wasn't just pay the company wanted. They wanted the A plan badly. Thankfully Kasher never let them near it.

Yeah, in arbitration. I'm talking about the original offer that was endorsed by ALPA National. The MEC, however, thought they could win arbitration, so they rejected it.

Packrat
05-09-2017, 07:52 AM
Check a pilot shirt, looks like a white collar to me :D

Original AS unis in the '90s were light blue shirts. Best thing they ever did was switch to white so we wouldn't be reminded we were just blue collar labor.

Heck, some airlines wear grey!

Tubby
05-09-2017, 12:21 PM
Yeah, in arbitration. I'm talking about the original offer that was endorsed by ALPA National. The MEC, however, thought they could win arbitration, so they rejected it.

Not how I remember it. I went to a company roadshow in LAX way before we got anywhere near arbitration. 26% and the A plan is what they wanted from the start. I remember the promise by Ayer that the FOs shouldn't worry about it because with all the growth at 10% ROIC we would be Captains in no time. Lol.

ShyGuy
05-09-2017, 12:44 PM
Original AS unis in the '90s were light blue shirts. Best thing they ever did was switch to white so we wouldn't be reminded we were just blue collar labor.

Heck, some airlines wear grey!

Like Virgin.

Honestly can't wait for a real pilot uniform so we can look the part. Never fails when you walk in a pilot uniform to a gate agent to jumpseat and get the, "are you a pilot?" question. I'm all for being cool and hip but if other airline employees can't even recognize that you are a pilot, then the uniform probably has gone too far.

Packrat
05-09-2017, 01:42 PM
Not how I remember it. I went to a company roadshow in LAX way before we got anywhere near arbitration. 26% and the A plan is what they wanted from the start. I remember the promise by Ayer that the FOs shouldn't worry about it because with all the growth at 10% ROIC we would be Captains in no time. Lol.

Those roadshows were produced AFTER the MEC rejected the Company's original offer of 11% cut across the board. When it was rejected, the Company's subsequent ploy was to produce the road show at 2 times the proposed cut to drive the MEC to arbitration.

Believe me, there was a LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes that the average line pilot had NO idea about.

Packrat
05-09-2017, 01:42 PM
Like Virgin.

Honestly can't wait for a real pilot uniform so we can look the part. Never fails when you walk in a pilot uniform to a gate agent to jumpseat and get the, "are you a pilot?" question. I'm all for being cool and hip but if other airline employees can't even recognize that you are a pilot, then the uniform probably has gone too far.

You'd think the stripes would give it away.

ShyGuy
05-09-2017, 03:45 PM
You'd think the stripes would give it away.

Not if you have the soft shell jacket or the pilot leather jacket on. No stripes.

Reggie Dunlop
05-09-2017, 03:52 PM
Like Virgin.

Honestly can't wait for a real pilot uniform so we can look the part. Never fails when you walk in a pilot uniform to a gate agent to jumpseat and get the, "are you a pilot?" question. I'm all for being cool and hip but if other airline employees can't even recognize that you are a pilot, then the uniform probably has gone too far.


Have you considered the easy route? Walk up to the agent and say I am an offline pilot jumpseater and I would like to standby for the cockpit jumpseat.

That way you would not have to walk through the airport in fear of a $13 an hour shift worker bruising your delicate little ego by asking "are you a pilot."

Maslow would like to talk to you about your first world self-actualization problem when you have some free time.

:rolleyes:

Reggie Dunlop
05-09-2017, 03:57 PM
Not if you have the soft shell jacket or the pilot leather jacket on. No stripes.

You could be a super douche and take your soft shell to a tailor and get some shoulder boards sewn on. The you could rock some eppies on the jacket and folks would smoke you for a pilot right off the bat.

It would be sweet and would make you feel pretty awesome.

ShyGuy
05-09-2017, 04:36 PM
Touched a nerve, eh? I always identify as a pilot jumpseater first when I walk up to jumpseat somewhere, but it still happens. Thanks for your suggestions on the uniform modifications. :rolleyes:

waterboy
05-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Like Virgin.

Honestly can't wait for a real pilot uniform so we can look the part. Never fails when you walk in a pilot uniform to a gate agent to jumpseat and get the, "are you a pilot?" question. I'm all for being cool and hip but if other airline employees can't even recognize that you are a pilot, then the uniform probably has gone too far.

I have no desire to go back to a hat and tie. I dont care what people think I am walking through an airport. Just pay me like the guys in the hat, tie, and double breasted jackets.

Froggy
05-09-2017, 08:48 PM
Not if you have the soft shell jacket or the pilot leather jacket on. No stripes.

Why in the world do you want to look like a pilot?? I haven't jumpseated/sat (?) in uniform in years . Khakis, polo and lanyard.

full of luv
05-10-2017, 05:27 AM
Not if you have the soft shell jacket or the pilot leather jacket on. No stripes.

With AA it's the other way, I've started talking to a couple of their pursers thinking they were AA pilots due to their stripes.

NotTellin
05-10-2017, 09:28 AM
why in the world do you want to look like a pilot?? I haven't jumpseated/sat (?) in uniform in years . Khakis, polo and lanyard.
An orange lanyard!

Jetlife
05-10-2017, 09:30 AM
An orange lanyard!

#Triggered

GreatBigSea
05-10-2017, 11:53 AM
I was dressed in a traditional pilot uni with four stripes and a hat and I still got asked if I was a pilot or flight attendant. You can't fix stupid.

brianb
05-10-2017, 12:55 PM
Get over it, it's been 10 years now. They recognize the uniform.

OCCP
05-10-2017, 02:54 PM
I like the grey and no tie uniform, it's beats looking like a skycap.

Arctichicken
05-10-2017, 03:51 PM
I like the grey and no tie uniform, it's beats looking like a skycap.
Skycap makes more than a new FO here. The phrase "dress the part" no longer applies here at Alaskasworld. Oh but don't worry, wearing your hat will command a huge pay raise.

Pogey Bait
05-11-2017, 07:38 AM
I put my money on continuing to wear a gray shirt after this thing is patched together.

tomgoodman
05-11-2017, 07:52 AM
Hats are important because they give disgruntled pilots something to "not wear" as a protest.
Just try that with pants. :eek:

OCCP
05-11-2017, 08:13 AM
Hats are important because they give disgruntled pilots something to "not wear" as a protest.

Just try that with pants. :eek:



Haha! Didn't southwest do that about 10 years ago

Ispeakjive
05-12-2017, 10:42 PM
Like Virgin.

Honestly can't wait for a real pilot uniform so we can look the part. Never fails when you walk in a pilot uniform to a gate agent to jumpseat and get the, "are you a pilot?" question. I'm all for being cool and hip but if other airline employees can't even recognize that you are a pilot, then the uniform probably has gone too far.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Did you wear the optional hat and double breasted coat while at SkyWest? If you need the ego boost because of how you think people look at you, you're lost in your own reflection.

ShyGuy
05-13-2017, 09:19 AM
This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Did you wear the optional hat and double breasted coat while at SkyWest? If you need the ego boost because of how you think people look at you, you're lost in your own reflection.

Who ever said anything about a hat or double breasted jacket? I was implying the simple, traditional white shirt, tie, and black pants. But whatever. I will wear whatever they decide we'll wear in 2019.

Yetifan
05-13-2017, 01:21 PM
Who ever said anything about a hat or double breasted jacket? I was implying the simple, traditional white shirt, tie, and black pants. But whatever. I will wear whatever they decide we'll wear in 2019.

The fact you WANT to wear that ridiculous costume tells me all I need to know!

ShyGuy
05-13-2017, 02:47 PM
So what almost every other airline pilots wear except us is ridiculous. Such heated/passionate feelings on uniforms. Can't wait til the contract and list come out, maybe then there be bigger fish to worry about.

coolyokeluke
05-13-2017, 02:52 PM
So what almost every other airline pilots wear except us is ridiculous. Such heated/passionate feelings on uniforms. Can't wait til the contract and list come out, maybe then there be bigger fish to worry about.
I agree.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/82fb18cbf3f9c277040af6c50ae6af66.jpg

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Klsytakesit
05-14-2017, 02:08 AM
Would much prefer what ever we end up with to be as un uniform as we can get....anonymity is the name of the game....especially with the degradation of the self- loading freight that we haul around......time to be done with the goofy hold over from the army air corp

NJ123
05-14-2017, 06:39 AM
So what almost every other airline pilots wear except us is ridiculous. Such heated/passionate feelings on uniforms. Can't wait til the contract and list come out, maybe then there be bigger fish to worry about.

Do you ever have a new story to tell? This is the same bs you've been spouting for nearly 10 years. The same garbage you posted at 9E when you had nothing better to do. You were the one the brought uniforms into a speculative conversation about mergers. If you don't like where you are badly enough, find somewhere that'll make you happy. If you want to ride the wave for awhile then say something constructive. For being so "shy" you sure have a lot to say while at the helm of that douche canoe that you've been the captain of for 10 years now.

Jetlife
05-14-2017, 12:59 PM
I put my money on continuing to wear a gray shirt after this thing is patched together.

I'll take that bet, because it's 100% for sure not happening.

ShyGuy
05-15-2017, 01:52 AM
Do you ever have a new story to tell? This is the same bs you've been spouting for nearly 10 years. The same garbage you posted at 9E when you had nothing better to do. You were the one the brought uniforms into a speculative conversation about mergers. If you don't like where you are badly enough, find somewhere that'll make you happy. If you want to ride the wave for awhile then say something constructive. For being so "shy" you sure have a lot to say while at the helm of that douche canoe that you've been the captain of for 10 years now.

Triggered over uniforms? Get well soon

Reggie Dunlop
05-15-2017, 12:41 PM
So what almost every other airline pilots wear except us is ridiculous. Such heated/passionate feelings on uniforms. Can't wait til the contract and list come out, maybe then there be bigger fish to worry about.

You brought it up Holmes...not us.

FlytoSurf
05-16-2017, 09:49 AM
This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Did you wear the optional hat and double breasted coat while at SkyWest? If you need the ego boost because of how you think people look at you, you're lost in your own reflection.

hahahaha I love it! Ispeakjive you hit it right on the head. Virgin has the best uniforms in the business. Most comfortable besides corporate flying in jeans and polo shirts haha. I could care less if I get called a mechanic or a flight attendant. Why would you get a job at virgin if you need to wear the white shirt, tie, hat, jacket with stripes and all that crap? Go to Delta. You would fit in better living on the forums!

Work2much
05-16-2017, 10:26 AM
hahahaha I love it! Ispeakjive you hit it right on the head. Virgin has the best uniforms in the business. Most comfortable besides corporate flying in jeans and polo shirts haha. I could care less if I get called a mechanic or a flight attendant. Why would you get a job at virgin if you need to wear the white shirt, tie, hat, jacket with stripes and all that crap? Go to Delta. You would fit in better living on the forums!

You mean you couldn't care less. Because if you could care less as you imply, you would, in fact, care less. If you could care less then that defeats the purpose of your argument.
Not sure why this is being argued. Alaska will make everyone on property wear the Alaska uniform which includes a white shirt, a tie and a hat. Heaven forbid a professional airline pilot wear a respectable looking uniform.

RogerDorn
05-16-2017, 01:23 PM
You mean you couldn't care less. Because if you could care less as you imply, you would, in fact, care less. If you could care less then that defeats the purpose of your argument.
Not sure why this is being argued. Alaska will make everyone on property wear the Alaska uniform which includes a white shirt, a tie and a hat. Heaven forbid a professional airline pilot wear a respectable looking uniform.

It's 2017, most professionals (bankers, doctors, engineers) don't wear a tie. What's wrong with being trendy/comfortable?

GreatBigSea
05-16-2017, 03:09 PM
You mean you couldn't care less. Because if you could care less as you imply, you would, in fact, care less. If you could care less then that defeats the purpose of your argument.
Not sure why this is being argued. Alaska will make everyone on property wear the Alaska uniform which includes a white shirt, a tie and a hat. Heaven forbid a professional airline pilot wear a respectable looking uniform.

I'm going to laugh when our new uniformsare considered "unprofessional" by the rest of the industry.

waterboy
05-16-2017, 09:12 PM
So, shirt sleeve shirt and tie is considered professional? What other profession runs around in a short sleeve shirt and a tie? Bus Driver, is one, who else?

BiloxiJack
05-16-2017, 09:41 PM
Assistant to the Regional Managers, that's who. Bears, beets, battle star galactica. https://bodamerblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dwightgunshow001.gifSo, shirt sleeve shirt and tie is considered professional? What other profession runs around in a short sleeve shirt and a tie? Bus Driver, is one, who else?

Pogey Bait
05-17-2017, 05:52 AM
I'll take that bet, because it's 100% for sure not happening.

Why do you say that? Look at what's happening to the cabin, it's about un Alaska as you can get.

ForeverJunior
05-17-2017, 06:13 AM
I don't care what the uniform looks like as long as we have an industry-leading contract.

tomgoodman
05-17-2017, 11:54 AM
So, shirt sleeve shirt and tie is considered professional? What other profession runs around in a short sleeve shirt and a tie? Bus Driver, is one, who else?

Bah! Airline pilots do not follow fashion; they set it. :D

Klsytakesit
05-17-2017, 09:27 PM
I don't care what the uniform looks like as long as we have an industry-leading contract.

Hopefully we will...It will be in 2020 and it will be sold as industry leading based on 2017 numbers....

GuppyPuppy
05-23-2017, 05:46 AM
You all will be wearing blue shirts in a few years.;)

...just keeping the title of this thread in mind.:)

Gup

Xtreme87
05-23-2017, 09:31 AM
You all will be wearing blue shirts in a few years.;)

...just keeping the title of this thread in mind.:)

Gup

Wouldn't be surprised. Would be a solid network with a nationally recognized brand.

CassinAK
05-28-2017, 07:13 PM
The uniform has already been decided. Its basically what Alaska has now with a bit different blue and platinum epaulettes.

Luly Yang has pilots from both companies selected to wear test the uniform.

Yetifan
05-28-2017, 07:56 PM
The uniform has already been decided. Its basically what Alaska has now with a bit different blue and platinum epaulettes.

Luly Yang has pilots from both companies selected to wear test the uniform.

This is true. What a total disappointment! Alaska had a chance to do something fresh and new but decided to be their typical boring self...

IDIOTPILOT
05-28-2017, 08:32 PM
Wear test and make it clear the hats, ties, and white shirts just didn't really work out.

OCCP
05-29-2017, 10:05 AM
So pathetic! But I'd expect nothing less from this clueless company. They are so afraid of change, which is probably why they were in the situation where they had to buy virgin. I'm looking forward to 30 years of stupidity

Yetifan
05-29-2017, 03:43 PM
So pathetic! But I'd expect nothing less from this clueless company. They are so afraid of change, which is probably why they were in the situation where they had to buy virgin. I'm looking forward to 30 years of stupidity

Ha! It's really a shame... Good luck to you all!

ShyGuy
05-29-2017, 05:32 PM
What part of Adopt and Go Alaska did ya miss :D

A conservative mgt that is at least trying to compete, grow, and survive long term versus those who sold out their employees to IPO and then put us for sale to cash out. At least you'll (probably) have a 30 year career at Alaska. I doubt the same can be said for standalone VX.

OCCP
05-29-2017, 05:44 PM
I know, I know. I just wish Alaska didn't always operate in the shadows. It's their outdated mindset and arrogance which opened the door for DAL to come into Seattle and practically own the place in two years time. I'm still trying to figure out where the growth is though. 5-10 new airbus and a net loss of 4 pos 737s hardly equals growth in my mind.

ShyGuy
05-29-2017, 05:45 PM
I know, I know. I just wish Alaska didn't always operate in the shadows. It's their outdated mindset and arrogance which opened the door for DAL to come into Seattle and practically own the place in two years time. I'm still trying to figure out where the growth is though. 5-10 new airbus and a net loss of 4 pos 737s hardly equals growth in my mind.

E175s

:eek:

Packrat
05-30-2017, 05:35 AM
E175s

:eek:

Remember, growth to AS management means more seats not more jets. 400s, 700s and even 800s replaced with 900 and 900ERs constitutes "growth".

Arctichicken
05-30-2017, 09:00 AM
350 pilots in the last decade barely qualifies as growth. I'm still holding my breath for 2000 by 2000.

AltoCumulus
06-06-2017, 05:42 PM
350 pilots in the last decade barely qualifies as growth. I'm still holding my breath for 2000 by 2000.

You must have missed the bulletin they put the bulletin out a few years ago. The new and improved program is now 3000 by 3000!

i fly planes
07-02-2017, 08:05 AM
350 pilots in the last decade barely qualifies as growth. I'm still holding my breath for 2000 by 2000.

The rumor still lingers in Minneapolis that Alaska has potentially acquired Sun Country and it will be finalized in the fall. There have been fairly extensive changes recently operationally which may be an effort to align the flight operations. Is there any rumor in Seattle?

Ray Red
07-02-2017, 08:42 AM
The rumor still lingers in Minneapolis that Alaska has potentially acquired Sun Country and it will be finalized in the fall. There have been fairly extensive changes recently operationally which may be an effort to align the flight operations. Is there any rumor in Seattle?

The "Aligning flight operations" comes way after a merger announcement. It's always possible that a merger could occur, but I wouldn't read into this too far.

GreatBigSea
07-02-2017, 01:31 PM
If it's not announced and nothing is reported on AAG's balance sheets at the end of the quarter, I wouldn't hold your breath.

DirtyOldMan
07-11-2017, 02:03 PM
I wonder what, if anything, Sunny hiring Jude Bricker as CEO says about any merger rumors. Regardless, is it just me or does it seem a bit sudden and somewhat odd for him to abruptly leave Allegiant and move his family to Minneapolis to head up Sun Country?

Having said that the dude seems to have a really great reputation. Should bode well for SY no matter what happens.