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FlyingBulldog
05-02-2017, 07:41 AM
Does an FAA pilot certificate inherently grant any sort of ramp access at public airports? I keep a small GA plane at a regional airport, and have had no problem having the FBO desk worker open the drive-through gate so I can drive out to the plane (I take gas cans out there to run auto gas in it). I also use the wash hanger they have from time to time. Last night I was informed by the desk attendant that the airport police told them since my last visit that no vehicles were allowed on the ramp unless the driver had a line badge, and that no one was allowed to walk on the ramp without one, unless they remain within 30 feet of a line guy. This means no using the wash hangar unless a line guy sits there "escorting" you, and you have to wait at your aircraft to be escorted to the FBO building.

Ok, well, I applied for a badge about two months ago and was told I would get a call in a couple days to come watch some safety video and get it. Supposedly the only thing the badge was for was to allow me to get through the drive gate on my own and not have to walk in to ask them to buzz it open, so I figured I wasn't in a hurry and it didn't really matter. I called today to inquire about the status of my application, and was informed that they just shredded the application because I didn't submit payment (first I heard of a fee) with the application. Alas, the real reason for the crackdown is apparent - $$. They want to charge me money to go out to my own aircraft for which I already have a lease agreement on the tie down spot! Are there not any sort of implied ramp access privileges granted by a pilot certificate? I'm curious if the FAA would care that airport police are restricting pilots' movement to/from their aircraft for financial gain.

I'm expecting a few negative responses due to the current climate where the answer to the question "can the police (insert literally anything)" is always yes. I'm not a cop hater by any means, but this seems like a useless money grab/power trip by the very bored airport police.


FlyingBulldog
05-02-2017, 07:47 AM
I should also mention that my squadron occasionally parks our aircraft at this airfield/FBO and talking to the airport police today, they indicated that they do intend to attempt to restrict the movements of uniformed military personnel in this same manner while we are there unless we all get line badges... bold move, Cotton.

rickair7777
05-02-2017, 12:27 PM
This isn't the FAA, or even TSA directly.

This is the local municipality, they control your airport (and probably own it). They have to do certain things to comply with TSA requirements, but the details are up to them.

The FAA guards their regulatory pre-emption with regards to aviation rules, but the fact that you have to pay a fee to get a badge to access the local airport has nothing to do with aviation regs. If they outright banned all GA pilots, then the FAA would take an interest.


USMCFLYR
05-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RickAir is right.
You need to take up the fight with your city council/airport authority.
I have read there is a similar issue at public use airports where there is only one FBO with the only access to the ramp and said FBO wants to *charge* a fee to basically walking through the FBO. You are probably right about it being a way for the city/airport to increase revenue.

Xdashdriver
05-02-2017, 04:51 PM
This isn't the FAA, or even TSA directly.

This is the local municipality, they control your airport (and probably own it). They have to do certain things to comply with TSA requirements, but the details are up to them.

The FAA guards their regulatory pre-emption with regards to aviation rules, but the fact that you have to pay a fee to get a badge to access the local airport has nothing to do with aviation regs. If they outright banned all GA pilots, then the FAA would take an interest.

It might be the TSA. I know some TSA security directors can be a little "creative" with requirements within their district that go over and above what the TSRs require. We've had that issue at my local airport.

Flyhayes
05-02-2017, 07:33 PM
This is where AOPA might be good to turn to.

JohnBurke
05-02-2017, 09:37 PM
When you say "squadron" and "uniformed military personnel," are you talking about Civil Air Patrol?

Not that it matters; your uniform doesn't grand airport access privilege any more than your pilot certificate.

FlyingBulldog
05-03-2017, 03:06 AM
When you say "squadron" and "uniformed military personnel," are you talking about Civil Air Patrol?

Not that it matters; your uniform doesn't grand airport access privilege any more than your pilot certificate.

Uh, no.


And not that it grants access, but they'd probably get corrected by somebody higher up for their stupidity. Besides, the airport probably doesn't want to scare off that fuel account by trying to make them buy line badges for every crew chief and aircrew member. So a pilot has to take a line guy on his walk-around because the aircraft is larger than 30 feet? Give me a break.

But that was really just a side note. Yeah maybe I'll call AOPA and see what they think, but in reality I'll probably just pay the stupid thing. Honestly its probably the largest victory/big feeling these guys may ever get in life. Really chaps my a$$ though.

BoilerUP
05-03-2017, 03:21 AM
Airports, especially those with 121 service, have had similar policies for YEARS.

LEX is notoriously a PITA; when instructing there moons ago I let a renter out to a plane whose SIDA badge (good only for GA side, just like mine) had expired while he was on a year-long vacation to Afghanistan. Airport cops revoked my ID and made me sit through the whole badging process again with a warning a second violation would see it permanently revoked.

All for serving a paying client and having the audacity to not escort him 30 yards to a Cessna 152. Funny thing is a customer with no ID would have been fine, but expired ID was no bueno...

JohnBurke
05-03-2017, 06:25 AM
Uh, no./QUOTE]

Then answer the damn question.

What is it that you think should grand you access? You think your uniform, whatever it is, is a ticket onto the airfield? You think your pilot certificate is? Neither.

The fact is that many airports make determinations regarding who can enter, and who can go where. Simply because you have access to the airport doesn't mean you can use every entrance, or go everywhere on the field. Simply because you've landed there doesn't mean you have open access.

FBO's on many airfields are granted the ability to allow patrons through their facility onto the ramp, but they're also responsible for the patrons and persons who are in, through, and on their facilities. This often includes a requirement to escort. The airport and the authority that runs and owns the airport, is also beholden to a number of local through federal regulations and laws which establish security based on the airport type, use, proximity, etc.

I have worked at airports in which badging was a lengthy process, and until the badge was obtained, I required an escort to enter work, and to be at work. I couldn't go anywhere else on the field, and I couldn't get through the gate to enter work without needing someone to come out, walk me through, and escort me into the hangar.

As a uniformed crew member I've often been required to follow the same security procedures as everyone else, including escort, at many locations in the US and abroad.

[QUOTE=FlyingBulldog;2356099]
And not that it grants access, but they'd probably get corrected by somebody higher up for their stupidity.

You seem very full of yourself.

Get the damn badge. Or get escorted. Get over yourself. Not necessarily in that order.

FlyingBulldog
05-03-2017, 06:42 AM
Airports, especially those with 121 service, have had similar policies for YEARS.



Yeah I figured that could be it, but I've landed at larger airports and had no problem walking around the ramp freely to/from the plane without an escort or badge. Oh well, by some of these replies it sounds like it's a common practice.

I miss the old airport where I could just punch the code into the gate and drive out to the plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bilsch
05-06-2017, 07:02 AM
Is this a Part 139 airport? If so, the airport is required to ensure you are properly trained to access movement areas or they can be fined or lose their certificate. TSA is also referenced in the ACM (Airport Certification Manual).

This training costs them money as does the badging process.

As to the poster who used an expired badge, that is a serious violation. An expired or canceled badge could be used by a disgruntled employee or other person who may want to do harm. I personally had to deal with a situation where this happened.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/faqs/?p1=faq#q34

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol9/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol9-part1542.pdf

Be happy that the airport is taking precautions to ensure your property is secure by limiting access to those who have been trained and had criminal background checks.



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