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View Full Version : SkyWest or Compass?


Roguesquadren2
05-25-2017, 06:36 PM
If you were looking to go to a regional today would you go to SkyWest or Compass?


hawk21
05-25-2017, 06:37 PM
If you were looking to go to a regional today would you go to SkyWest or Compass?

Seriously? lol Compass isn't even hiring

Roguesquadren2
05-25-2017, 06:39 PM
I've been contacted by a Compass recruiter for summer classes


amcnd
05-25-2017, 06:48 PM
I've been contacted by a Compass recruiter for summer classes

Ive been contacted by a telemarketer saying ive won a free stay at a time share.... oh and free dinner!! Man I'm going!! Seriously, you already know your answer. Asking here is just a bad idea..

tcco94
05-25-2017, 07:09 PM
Ive been contacted by a telemarketer saying ive won a free stay at a time share.... oh and free dinner!! Man I'm going!! Seriously, you already know your answer. Asking here is just a bad idea..
Lolololololol

zondaracer
05-25-2017, 07:16 PM
Two years ago, the results of this poll would have been the opposite because Compass experienced really fast growth and had very quick upgrade times.

Compass only has two west coast bases now, so getting LAX or SEA would be a sure thing, where as it could take 3-12 months to get a west coast base at SkYWest. Other than that, Compass owns 0 planes. 0. That adds some risk to the decision. Keep in mind that Compass is owned by the same company that owns Trans States and GoJet. Some of this risk manifested itself recently when Compass lost 6 airplanes which were transferred to Republic.

Many pilots who choose SkyWest choose it for their reputation. Upgrade at SkyWest is below 12 months right now (moving target, and you won't upgrade that fast unless you come in with previous qualifying time such as other 121 time). SkyWest has never furloughed. If another 9/11 happens or another economic crisis hits, where would you rather be stuck/hang your hat?

If you compare the Compass and SkyWest contracts side by side, SkyWest has an advantage. There are some good things about Compass, but right now most answers will probably lean towards SkyWest.

WesternSkies
05-25-2017, 07:19 PM
For obvious reasons I'd say Compass, but i've heard they don't really like 737 pilots.

amcnd
05-25-2017, 07:27 PM
The best point is Compass owns "zero" aircraft.... that is a scary factor looking 5 years out...

Roguesquadren2
05-25-2017, 08:14 PM
Ive been contacted by a telemarketer saying ive won a free stay at a time share.... oh and free dinner!! Man I'm going!! Seriously, you already know your answer. Asking here is just a bad idea..

Why is it a bad idea?

N200NN
05-25-2017, 08:18 PM
Seriously? lol Compass isn't even hiring

Yes, we are.

hawk21
05-25-2017, 08:19 PM
Yes, we are.

Tell that to my friends trying to get hired and being told there's no classes going on.

N200NN
05-25-2017, 08:23 PM
Tell that to my friends trying to get hired and being told there's no classes going on.

Classes are starting back up in June for both upgrades(up to 16/month) and new hire FOs. Probably why a recruiter contacted the OP regarding summer classes.

TillerTemptress
05-25-2017, 10:10 PM
Tell that to my friends trying to get hired and being told there's no classes going on.

When was that? There are new hire classes starting now and more coming. They're asking us for pilot referrals. So, okay.

All the doom and gloom about Compass is pretty unwarranted. If you want a west coast base with the option to upgrade on the west coast in probably ~ 2 years, this place is still pretty good. Compare the contracts and we do pretty OK especially with only productive 175 legs. Look at west coast upgrade time at Skywest and it's years years years, tell me what the most jr E175 LAX CA is at Skywest... it ain't anywhere close to 2 years. Also, it's nice to have a union here, we are ALPA represented.

WesternSkies
05-25-2017, 11:00 PM
When was that? There are new hire classes starting now and more coming. They're asking us for pilot referrals. So, okay.

All the doom and gloom about Compass is pretty unwarranted. If you want a west coast base with the option to upgrade on the west coast in probably ~ 2 years, this place is still pretty good. Compare the contracts and we do pretty OK especially with only productive 175 legs. Look at west coast upgrade time at Skywest and it's years years years, tell me what the most jr E175 LAX CA is at Skywest... it ain't anywhere close to 2 years. Also, it's nice to have a union here, we are ALPA represented.

3. It's literally at the next closest possible and that is...three years.

What is a productive 175 leg?

I'd still choose Compass.

TheFly
05-26-2017, 04:04 AM
It's true, you will have a slightly shorter wait to get LAX or SEA with Compass. However, company reputation and management are far better than anything in the GoJet family. ALPA or any union that represents a major and a regional airline is a one sided deal with little to no benefit on the regional side. Ask Mesa, Republic, etc. if Comapss doesn't own any of the planes they operate, then that would be a no-brained to me. I'd say SkyWest for the long run.

TillerTemptress
05-26-2017, 10:08 PM
It's true, you will have a slightly shorter wait to get LAX or SEA with Compass. However, company reputation and management are far better than anything in the GoJet family. ALPA or any union that represents a major and a regional airline is a one sided deal with little to no benefit on the regional side. Ask Mesa, Republic, etc. if Comapss doesn't own any of the planes they operate, then that would be a no-brained to me. I'd say SkyWest for the long run.

The union here has saved plenty of jobs, fought contract disputes for us, kept the company in check. Not to mention all the safety benefits ALPA national provides and things like KCM. If you meet with the company for disciplinary action a rep is there to protect you.. hardly a "one sided deal"

TillerTemptress
05-26-2017, 10:11 PM
3. It's literally at the next closest possible and that is...three years.

What is a productive 175 leg?

I'd still choose Compass.

Okay, well when you run your pay calculation, it's gonna be a lot higher year 2 until year 3 at Skywest, if it even holds at 3 years there for west coast, consider all the west coast guys they've hired in the past 3 years. I know plenty in DTW/MSP etc just waiting to get back west to the airplane they want. What was the jr DOH? I know a 3 year Skywest LAX FO that tells me he's nowhere close, so I'm surprised to hear that it's 3 years.

WesternSkies
05-26-2017, 11:13 PM
What was the jr DOH? I know a 3 year Skywest LAX FO that tells me he's nowhere close, so I'm surprised to hear that it's 3 years.

March 2014 hire.

veewan
05-27-2017, 02:58 AM
The union here has saved plenty of jobs, fought contract disputes for us, kept the company in check. Not to mention all the safety benefits ALPA national provides and things like KCM. If you meet with the company for disciplinary action a rep is there to protect you.. hardly a "one sided deal"

Fought contract disputes? So have they gotten a real time reserve grid in place? How about long and short overnight hotels per the contract (15 hours or longer)? IOCC? That's hardly keeping the company in check. I'm sure the list is longer than that.

What safety benefits does ALPA provide that SkyWest does not have? They have AQP, ASAP, HIMS, FOQA.

On the subject of KCM, SkyWest gets to participate. More importantly it's paid for by the company. Great Lakes does not participate in KCM or to my knowledge still does not (they definitely did not previously​), Air Wisconsin left KCM temporarily when the company told the pilots it was too expensive. Mesa pilots- represented by ALPA, pay for their own KCM as a deduction each pay check.

I think what the other poster was suggesting is, that it's better to work without a union, at a company that actually follows through on what they've agreed to. Instead of at a company where you grieve it and fly and that's considered "fighting" contract disputes.

middies10
05-27-2017, 08:47 AM
Fought contract disputes? So have they gotten a real time reserve grid in place? How about long and short overnight hotels per the contract (15 hours or longer)? IOCC? That's hardly keeping the company in check. I'm sure the list is longer than that.

I think you need to read our contract, especially regarding hotels. Things aren't fought and solved overnight. All this issues you have presented have come up within the last 5 months.

If you are not happy with the way the union is working why not get involved? With our attrition to the majors its tough to maintain an MEC.

gojo
05-27-2017, 09:19 AM
Fought contract disputes? So have they gotten a real time reserve grid in place? How about long and short overnight hotels per the contract (15 hours or longer)? IOCC? That's hardly keeping the company in check. I'm sure the list is longer than that.

What safety benefits does ALPA provide that SkyWest does not have? They have AQP, ASAP, HIMS, FOQA.

On the subject of KCM, SkyWest gets to participate. More importantly it's paid for by the company. Great Lakes does not participate in KCM or to my knowledge still does not (they definitely did not previously​), Air Wisconsin left KCM temporarily when the company told the pilots it was too expensive. Mesa pilots- represented by ALPA, pay for their own KCM as a deduction each pay check.

I think what the other poster was suggesting is, that it's better to work without a union, at a company that actually follows through on what they've agreed to. Instead of at a company where you grieve it and fly and that's considered "fighting" contract disputes.

And yet most at Skywest would happily move onto a major airline with ALPA. I obviously know there are differences between the two, but why not support it throughout your career? To not do so and denounce ALPA seems like double standards to me. ASAP, HIMS, KCM, to name a few are things ALPA has put money into to make things better for this industry. Skywest is not innovative in anything I know of with the exception of being non-union and using methods or programs that others have created. Sometimes at great financial expense to ALPA. Have you heard about NAI? That is a real threat to this industry and it's just one example of what a portion of ALPA dues is used to fight this. It may make a big difference later in your career. So something to think about, what would this industry be like without ALPA, and what would Skywest have without Alpa in the industry?

veewan
05-27-2017, 09:35 AM
Fair points. But saying there's a union does not mean conditions are necessarily better was the point. ALPA at the national level definitely does some good work. Point in case NAI.

Could SkyWest see ALPA in their future? Possibly.

To play devil's advocate let's imagine SkyWest votes in ALPA. Would you advise a wet R-ATP pilot to go to Mesa over SkyWest since they have had ALPA longer?

gojo
05-27-2017, 11:25 AM
Fair points. But saying there's a union does not mean conditions are necessarily better was the point. ALPA at the national level definitely does some good work. Point in case NAI.

Could SkyWest see ALPA in their future? Possibly.

To play devil's advocate let's imagine SkyWest votes in ALPA. Would you advise a wet R-ATP pilot to go to Mesa over SkyWest since they have had ALPA longer?

No, I certainly wouldn't advise that. My point is that I continually hear or read from the Skywest clan about how worthless Alpa is. Yet all of them enjoy things that Alpa fought for. It doesn't make sense to me.

AirBat
05-27-2017, 12:25 PM
Yes, cpz Alpa couldn't prevent the IOCC fiasco but there is a grievance and guess what this stuff doesn't just happen instantly. It'll go to arbitration. At least that's an option vs "suck it up buttercup".

gojo
05-27-2017, 12:49 PM
Yes, cpz Alpa couldn't prevent the IOCC fiasco but there is a grievance and guess what this stuff doesn't just happen instantly. It'll go to arbitration. At least that's an option vs "suck it up buttercup".

I'm not saying they're perfect.

threeighteen
05-27-2017, 05:40 PM
Great Lakes does not participate in KCM or to my knowledge still does not (they definitely did not previously​),

Great Lakes had KCM when I was there a while ago. We never paid a cent for it.

TheFly
05-27-2017, 07:24 PM
Stop smoking ALPA crack. I'm not saying some entity that represents the pilot group isn't necessary. However, a union that represents the contractor and its subcontractors isn't going to work. It may have benefits on the Major level, but on the regional level absolutely not. All the regional airlines that have traditionally had the worst pay and work rules have been represented by the same union that represents their mainline affiliates. Mesa, Great Lakes, Republic, GoJet...shall we continue?

gojo
05-27-2017, 08:33 PM
Stop smoking ALPA crack. I'm not saying some entity that represents the pilot group isn't necessary. However, a union that represents the contractor and its subcontractors isn't going to work. It may have benefits on the Major level, but on the regional level absolutely not. All the regional airlines that have traditionally had the worst pay and work rules have been represented by the same union that represents their mainline affiliates. Mesa, Great Lakes, Republic, GoJet...shall we continue?

Stop drinking Skywest koolaid and realize that almost everything they offer comes off the backs of dues payers everywhere else. NAI is a great example of why everyone should be involved even at the regional level. You continue to enjoy things that ALPA national has fought hard for even at the regional level. It isn't free, and why you think you're above contributing blows me away.

minimwage4
05-27-2017, 09:01 PM
Don't go with anything Hulas operated. It's a dead end.

Bombardier Stev
05-27-2017, 09:29 PM
Regarding the ALPA/Teamsters/SAPA discussion: The Trans States management, TSA, Gojet, Compass, are totally happy with their unions because they have no power, they are as worthless as unions can be. When something is grieved, when a pilot is terminated, Trans States does not fight the grieved issue. They argue that the grievance was not filed properly, or not on time, or sent to the wrong person. They then have to have an arbitration about whether the grievance can be arbitrated. That process takes just under a year, 11 months. After Trans States loses that battle, then they just ignore the union's requests for the arbitration. Again, the reason simply does not matter, its time they want. After 4 to 6 months the union has to go to federal court for a suit to compel arbitration. That's another few months to over a year. So you are up to at least 2 years. The union does not really want to do anything because that costs money. The Union reps are gone after 2 years and new guys are in. It never ends, people just give up. Don't forget the reasoning behind the preference for Arbitration, it is fast and inexpensive. Trans states has turned that around. So placing too much faith in the union might be a mistake. The thing to look at is the integrity of the company leaders.

word302
05-27-2017, 09:42 PM
3. It's literally at the next closest possible and that is...three years.

What is a productive 175 leg?

I'd still choose Compass.

This is not true. Jr LAX ERJ captain is July 2012 hire. Spreading misinformation does not help anyone. Jr ORD ERJ captain is 3 years.

TillerTemptress
05-27-2017, 10:10 PM
This is not true. Jr LAX ERJ captain is July 2012 hire. Spreading misinformation does not help anyone. Jr ORD ERJ captain is 3 years.

Yep, OO offers west coast just as fast as CPZ but the upgrade is gonna send you to another airplane in a faraway place.

amcnd
05-28-2017, 04:45 AM
Thing change so rapidly.. if someone would have told me 5 even 10 years ago Compass was going to close there MSP base in 2017 I would have laughed at them... Well miss Kleo was right...

TillerTemptress
05-28-2017, 01:02 PM
Thing change so rapidly.. if someone would have told me 5 even 10 years ago Compass was going to close there MSP base in 2017 I would have laughed at them... Well miss Kleo was right...

This is true but as professional aviators we make the best possible decision based on gathering all available aviation. There is nothing to indicate that west coast upgrade time is going to drop at Skywest any time soon and we don't seem to be moving east any time soon having just finished moving out west. It is what it is.

word302
05-28-2017, 04:52 PM
This is true but as professional aviators we make the best possible decision based on gathering all available aviation. There is nothing to indicate that west coast upgrade time is going to drop at Skywest any time soon and we don't seem to be moving east any time soon having just finished moving out west. It is what it is.

You have to admit that a regional that stopped hiring for a spell in this climate does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Work2much
05-28-2017, 04:56 PM
You have to admit that a regional that stopped hiring for a spell in this climate does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Neither does an airline that has a ton of CRJ200s

ShooterMcGavin
05-28-2017, 05:13 PM
Compass Airline

Rogdixon
05-28-2017, 05:57 PM
Neither does an airline that has a ton of CRJ200s

157 to be exact (according to APC)

veewan
05-28-2017, 07:15 PM
157 to be exact (according to APC)

And how many E175, orders and options?

Roguesquadren2
05-28-2017, 07:15 PM
157 to be exact (according to APC)

What a minute Compass has 56 E175 (that they don't own) Skywest has 100 E175 (that they do own) according to APC so what's wrong with having CRJ's as well?

gojo
05-28-2017, 07:28 PM
And how many E175, orders and options?

Really, how many would be allowed per current scope clauses? I'll give you a hint, it's 0. Come on, it's basic math. Maybe you can also talk about the MRJ. Oops, still ZERO. What's left is the seconds you can get from other carriers.

word302
05-28-2017, 08:15 PM
What a minute Compass has 56 E175 (that they don't own) Skywest has 100 E175 (that they do own) according to APC so what's wrong with having CRJ's as well?

But, but, logic. Lol.

TillerTemptress
05-28-2017, 09:46 PM
I mean, at some point all 3 regionals will work out something for the next gen jets re: scope/weight/seats, and Compass will get 170E2s or MRJ or whatever. Not owning any airplanes can be an asset... you aren't stuck with a bunch of 200's.

veewan
05-29-2017, 12:50 AM
I mean, at some point all 3 regionals will work out something for the next gen jets re: scope/weight/seats, and Compass will get 170E2s or MRJ or whatever. Not owning any airplanes can be an asset... you aren't stuck with a bunch of 200's.

It can be an advantage, but as was seen with losing 6 planes at Compass, it can also be a curse.

Places like SkyWest can rebrand their planes...a CRJ 700 that stops flying for United can get repainted to fly as AA etc. Same number of planes=same number of pilots required vs less planes=less pilots required.

Who says they are stuck with CRJ200s? They got out of the Brasilia pretty nicely. You'll see them still flying around, just in new paint... hauling boxes even :cool: My guess is they already have buyers lined up or a plan to capitalize on those airframes when the time comes.

Although they have a lot of CRJ200s, they have 221 planes that are 70+ seats. Nearly 60% of their fleet is 70+ seats. And they have orders for more large RJs.

Gojo thinks that regionals are scoped out, and let's assume they are (I really hope they are, but if anyone heard what Scott Kirby openly wants, it's more large RJs outsourced). Seconds in this new market may come from regionals closing or consolidating. That's just speculation though at this point.

amcnd
05-29-2017, 06:25 AM
And how many E175, orders and options?

104 on property. Originally, 200 firm 200 options. 96 more firm orders...

amcnd
05-29-2017, 06:28 AM
I mean, at some point all 3 regionals will work out something for the next gen jets re: scope/weight/seats, and Compass will get 170E2s or MRJ or whatever. Not owning any airplanes can be an asset... you aren't stuck with a bunch of 200's.

Remember most of OO's200's are paid off, pulling in a good profit, and can be parked with no penalty..

amcnd
05-29-2017, 06:34 AM
Compass is a awesome airline. My main worries are...why they lost The MSP flying. Thats there HDQ.?? Why they didnt fight to keep that instead of getting pushed West.. being owned by Hulas, Main worries about SkyWest is lots of 200's. But seems to work for them... and owning XJT how that will effect the future.

gojo
05-29-2017, 07:01 AM
104 on property. Originally, 200 firm 200 options. 96 more firm orders...

My question still remains, where does scope allow for more 175's?

TheFly
05-29-2017, 07:39 AM
Remember most of OO's200's are paid off, pulling in a good profit, and can be parked with no penalty..

This right here. This is why there is a demand for 200s right now. We've added a dozen or so more for our Delta flying in DTW, with some additional 700 & 900s.

TheFly
05-29-2017, 07:40 AM
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-05-18-Alaska-Airlines-receives-U-S-DOT-approval-to-begin-Mexico-City-flying-from-San-Francisco-Los-Angeles-and-San-Diego

SkyWest...more west coast flying coming soon.

JetDoc
05-29-2017, 08:16 AM
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-05-18-Alaska-Airlines-receives-U-S-DOT-approval-to-begin-Mexico-City-flying-from-San-Francisco-Los-Angeles-and-San-Diego

SkyWest...more west coast flying coming soon.

More flying at a regional is nothing to be happy about.

Cefiro
05-29-2017, 08:26 AM
Remember most of OO's200's are paid off, pulling in a good profit, and can be parked with no penalty..

And they aren't going away anytime soon. The -200 is a profitable plane for SKYW.

zondaracer
05-29-2017, 08:38 AM
My question still remains, where does scope allow for more 175's?

Right now, Alaska doesn't have scope language. If United gets a new narrowbody fleet, then there is room for more 76 seat aircraft. I think AA scope relates to fleet percentage but someone else could elaborate.

Otherwise, not a lot of other room for more planes unless another regional parks their planes. For example, if SkyWest/Endeavor/GoJet/Mesa/Expressjet/Rebuplic etc parks their 900s or E175s for whatever reason or doesn't get their contract renewed, then another company can bid for that flying.

gojo
05-29-2017, 09:20 AM
Right now, Alaska doesn't have scope language. If United gets a new narrowbody fleet, then there is room for more 76 seat aircraft. I think AA scope relates to fleet percentage but someone else could elaborate.

Otherwise, not a lot of other room for more planes unless another regional parks their planes. For example, if SkyWest/Endeavor/GoJet/Mesa/Expressjet/Rebuplic etc parks their 900s or E175s for whatever reason or doesn't get their contract renewed, then another company can bid for that flying.

Dang, I keep forgetting Skywest is in with Alaska now. As for the rest I already knew that. I've been around the block a time or two

veewan
05-29-2017, 10:06 AM
The question I'm interested in is where are the 100 ADDITIONAL airframes going to be for, that SkyWest is telling pilots they'll get if they vote Yes on the proposed pay package.

WesternSkies
05-29-2017, 10:08 AM
It's a major airline that we don't yet fly for. CRJ900s all one class. Bombardier needs to sell planes.

veewan
05-29-2017, 11:57 AM
It's a major airline that we don't yet fly for. CRJ900s all one class. Bombardier needs to sell planes.

Major? Single class seating... Is it possibly WN?

Work2much
05-29-2017, 01:21 PM
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-05-18-Alaska-Airlines-receives-U-S-DOT-approval-to-begin-Mexico-City-flying-from-San-Francisco-Los-Angeles-and-San-Diego

SkyWest...more west coast flying coming soon.

I wouldn't' be so quick to brag about doing more flying for Alaska. That means less jobs at AS. Great for the lifers at SKW so I guess they're proud of all the new routes. Barf.

Work2much
05-29-2017, 01:22 PM
And they aren't going away anytime soon. The -200 is a profitable plane for SKYW.

Say that again when the price of oil goes back to $100. It's happy times now but that means zilch for a secure future.

amcnd
05-29-2017, 01:26 PM
This right here. This is why there is a demand for 200s right now. We've added a dozen or so more for our Delta flying in DTW, with some additional 700 & 900s.

Regardless what the News says or the "boyd group" concerning 50 seat jets. The fact is, there is a super strong demand for them...

amcnd
05-29-2017, 01:29 PM
It's a major airline that we don't yet fly for. CRJ900s all one class. Bombardier needs to sell planes.

Thats far fetched...that's not what is being tossed around the rumor mill..

saturn
05-29-2017, 04:10 PM
And they aren't going away anytime soon. The -200 is a profitable plane for SKYW.

Thats what they was said about the Brasilia. Killing it on the at risk routes. The common joke was "the last CRJ200 flight will have the crew DH back to base on the Bro."
They are profitable today. That's all that means. Add in high MX and fuel prices, a desire for dual class, and an ever increasing age on those things, and they could disappear in large quantities in under a year.

amcnd
05-29-2017, 04:17 PM
Thats what they was said about the Brasilia. Killing it on the at risk routes. The common joke was "the last CRJ200 flight will have the crew DH back to base on the Bro."
They are profitable today. That's all that means. Add in high MX and fuel prices, a desire for dual class, and an ever increasing age on those things, and they could disappear in large quantities in under a year.

The E120 demise was the propellers... no spare parts.. that and the 200's became so cheap it was better to put a 200 on the Gillette, Wy routes.. then it spread to moat the E120 routes. Minus the ones that couldn't meet the part 25 specs for the Jet.. aka Moab, UT ect...

WesternSkies
05-29-2017, 04:23 PM
Indeed, the 200 fleet average was only 4 years younger than the bro fleet average, but i also believe the public opinion of turboprops had an indeterminable influence in the ordeal.

veewan
05-29-2017, 06:36 PM
Thats far fetched...that's not what is being tossed around the rumor mill..

The rumor I've heard is Delta flying, but Alaska makes more sense. Guess time will tell.

TheFly
05-29-2017, 06:57 PM
More flying at a regional is nothing to be happy about.

This thread is about SkyWest or Compass. . . .

Roguesquadren2
05-30-2017, 01:05 AM
This thread is about SkyWest or Compass. . . .

Based on the information presented Skywest seems like a better place to get flight hours.

Rogdixon
05-30-2017, 08:16 AM
Based on the information presented Skywest seems like a better place to get flight hours.

Kinda surprised that no one has asked this yet (or maybe I missed it). What are you looking for? Why are you only looking at Compass and Skywest? Every airline has its strengths and weaknesses. There is no "best" regional, just the one that works best for you.

TheFly
05-30-2017, 10:04 AM
There is no "best" regional, just the one that works best for you.

That's not entirely true. There are quite clearly some regionals that you should stay away from at all costs. Then there are others that have better overall compensation, work environment, culture and benefits.

saxman66
05-30-2017, 10:42 AM
Major? Single class seating... Is it possibly WN?

Ha! No not Southwest. WN's contract is pretty strict with outside flying. In other words there will be none of it. When WN bought AirTran, Skywest had to quit flying the code share routes for AirTran out of MKE. I don't see WN pilots giving that up, nor do I see WN management willing to erode their product.

AirBat
05-30-2017, 12:41 PM
That's not entirely true. There are quite clearly some regionals that you should stay away from at all costs. Then there are others that have better overall compensation, work environment, culture and benefits.

I don't think either skywest or compass fall under the "avoid at all costs". Honestly apples to apples day to day few are going to notice a difference. There are little things that at better at cpz and little things that are better at OO and that's just how is it. I wouldn't recommend cpz to anybody who doesn't want to live on the west coast, but think if you live here it's a nice place with good work rules and good airplanes and quick movement and growth. Skywest may offer a faster upgrade but it's gonna be into the 200 in dtw. Compass offers a faster e175 west coast upgrade. Skywest may offer less reserve time but it's gonna be in the 200 in a base that doesn't really have reserve coverage. Also, that could fluctuate at either place, just like December '16 cpz hires discovered as they had to sit thru 6 months of airplane loss. However, the airplanes are gone now and we're staffed appropriately so the attrition train is going to continue as it was. If you live in sea, lax, phx, sfo, pdx, geg, I'd recommend cpz over OO, otherwise I'd probably recommend OO.

word302
05-30-2017, 04:19 PM
I don't think either skywest or compass fall under the "avoid at all costs". Honestly apples to apples day to day few are going to notice a difference. There are little things that at better at cpz and little things that are better at OO and that's just how is it. I wouldn't recommend cpz to anybody who doesn't want to live on the west coast, but think if you live here it's a nice place with good work rules and good airplanes and quick movement and growth. Skywest may offer a faster upgrade but it's gonna be into the 200 in dtw. Compass offers a faster e175 west coast upgrade. Skywest may offer less reserve time but it's gonna be in the 200 in a base that doesn't really have reserve coverage. Also, that could fluctuate at either place, just like December '16 cpz hires discovered as they had to sit thru 6 months of airplane loss. However, the airplanes are gone now and we're staffed appropriately so the attrition train is going to continue as it was. If you live in sea, lax, phx, sfo, pdx, geg, I'd recommend cpz over OO, otherwise I'd probably recommend OO.
So you'd recommend commuting for compass from phx, sfo, or pdx? That's horrible advice. OO is about to open at least 2 new bases. Movement will get crazy out west once again.

TillerTemptress
05-30-2017, 06:02 PM
So you'd recommend commuting for compass from phx, sfo, or pdx? That's horrible advice. OO is about to open at least 2 new bases. Movement will get crazy out west once again.

Yes, yes i would. Whether OO is "opening new bases" or not doesn't change movement out west for the lifer CA's already taking up west coast 175 CA slots.

word302
05-30-2017, 06:17 PM
Yes, yes i would. Whether OO is "opening new bases" or not doesn't change movement out west for the lifer CA's already taking up west coast 175 CA slots.

You guys crack me up. So you'd take no chance of being home based over at least being home based while in the right seat? Makes perfect sense.

TheFly
05-30-2017, 06:19 PM
Yes, yes i would. Whether OO is "opening new bases" or not doesn't change movement out west for the lifer CA's already taking up west coast 175 CA slots.

?????????????

Mandrake
05-30-2017, 06:32 PM
?????????????

What my friend was trying to say is that your airline has a lot of lifers. Sorry for the confusion. Carry on...

N200NN
05-30-2017, 06:49 PM
LAS.... he also forgot LAS commuters.

word302
05-30-2017, 09:47 PM
Nothing says stable like losing airplanes, hiring freezes during the biggest hiring boom in history, and closing bases (especially your oldest/historically largest base where your headquarters are).

veewan
05-30-2017, 10:20 PM
Nothing says stable like losing airplanes, hiring freezes during the biggest hiring boom in history, and closing bases (especially your oldest/historically largest base where your headquarters are).

Also TillerTemptress is suggesting if you're a West coast person to go to Compass, an airline that has only had West coast bases in the last few years. What happens when Compass migrates East again?

SkyWest on the other hand has flying on the west coast with all of the big 3 and Alaska. I'd think that's a lot more stability for a new hire. SkyWest would have to lose flying from 4 airlines​ to close up on the West Coast.

If Compass migrates East, a pilot that may come for a West coast base may have to upgrade into a base they'll have to commute to or possibly commute as an FO depending on the timing. Think about guys that went to Compass for a MSP base after LAX and SEA opened.

Driving to work is a huge QOL bump, so if I lived in SFO, PHX, PDX, DEN or SLC I'd highly consider SkyWest over Compass.

TillerTemptress
05-30-2017, 10:24 PM
Nothing says stable like losing airplanes, hiring freezes during the biggest hiring boom in history, and closing bases (especially your oldest/historically largest base where your headquarters are).

Nobody's saying it's ideal, but DL is our largest customer and they make the rules. The small 170 subfleet was mx prone, doing us no favors, and they wanted them on the east coast. It would have made zero sense for CPZ to open up a small east coast base for 6 planes, staff for mx and parts, and especially considering DL had probably already told them "hey we're moving you 85% to the west coast". Obviously, hiring freeze is associated, they didn't furlough but yeah if you're 120 pilots fat all of a sudden due to 6 airplanes going away. Closing a base, even if it's your oldest one.. I mean when that base is doing 100% flying for Delta and Delta decides they want it out west, what are they supposed to do? Tell our customer no? :confused: It was only a small base anyway.

Also TillerTemptress is suggesting if you're a West coast person to go to Compass, an airline that has only had West coast bases in the last few years. What happens when Compass migrates East again?

SkyWest on the other hand has flying on the west coast with all of the big 3 and Alaska. I'd think that's a lot more stability for a new hire. SkyWest would have to lose flying from 4 airlines​ to close up on the West Coast.

If Compass migrates East, a pilot that may come for a West coast base may have to upgrade into a base they'll have to commute to or possibly commute as an FO depending on the timing. Think about guys that went to Compass for a MSP base after LAX and SEA opened.

Driving to work is a huge QOL bump, so if I lived in SFO, PHX, PDX, DEN or SLC I'd highly consider SkyWest over Compass.

That's why it's important IMO to get that upgrade and get the hell out of this regional game as fast as possible. Nothing is stable in this industry, ever. Ask Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, or many in a long list how stable even their mainline jobs where the paint on the side of the airplane matched the ownership how it worked out for them. Ask United guys that lived in SEA, ask Delta guys in CVG. This is 100% the wrong industry for you if you need 100% stability and to live in base. Right now they just finished moving us back to the west coast. We have at least a few good years before we're going anywhere else. That's why there's almost nobody trying to make a career at Compass, and why our huge attrition has benefited everybody. This is an OK, not amazing, but OK place to hang out if things stall like our airplane loss or another major aviation recession, but yes, the airline could move at any time and 2 carriers in LAX is not as many as 4!

Poser765
05-31-2017, 02:43 AM
It seems like Compass talks more about Skywest than Skywest talks about Skywest.

TheFly
05-31-2017, 03:11 AM
It seems like Compass talks more about Skywest than Skywest talks about Skywest.

True statement. Either they love to hate us or hate to love us...

Work2much
05-31-2017, 05:04 AM
It seems like Compass talks more about Skywest than Skywest talks about Skywest.

Wait, I thought this whole thread was about SkyWest and Compass. Can't believe Compass is talking about SkyWest and SkyWest talking about Compass. And let's be clear...ask anyone in the regional world...NO ONE talks about SkyWest more than SkyWest.

gojo
05-31-2017, 05:27 AM
Wait, I thought this whole thread was about SkyWest and Compass. Can't believe Compass is talking about SkyWest and SkyWest talking about Compass. And let's be clear...ask anyone in the regional world...NO ONE talks about SkyWest more than SkyWest.

Lmao. So true, so true. Maybe that's why it's hard to get a hello from them while passing in the terminal 😬

peepz
05-31-2017, 06:00 AM
Lmao. So true, so true. Maybe that's why it's hard to get a hello from them while passing in the terminal 😬

I actually always say hi, and we just had a compass pilot J/S. It was an awesome flight with a ton of laughs. Don't think we even talked about aviation...

So if you do see an OO pilot waving to you I hope I don't expose my handle.

veewan
05-31-2017, 06:32 AM
I actually always say hi, and we just had a compass pilot J/S. It was an awesome flight with a ton of laughs. Don't think we even talked about aviation...

So if you do see an OO pilot waving to you I hope I don't expose my handle.

I'm pretty sure that every company has a few pilots that are antisocial. I've found that I can get a nod or a smile from any airline, but I can also get a cold shoulder or an extra obvious turn away to avoid eye contact from different folks in the same uniforms.

The point of this discussion is not who has the most weirdos​ on property, it's about what does each company offer a potential new pilot. The social aspect does come into play but both pilot groups​ have a fair share of young people or even older guys that do more than talk about airplanes.

As peepz said you can have a conversation with Compass or SkyWest pilots about topics outside of aviation. Heck I've talked to SkyWest pilots about surfing. Some people have more of a life than just airplanes.

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 02:27 PM
I couldn't care less, honestly, but in a thread called Skywest or Compass I'm going to give my honest recommendation and opinion based on the depth of my experiences.

word302
05-31-2017, 03:21 PM
I couldn't care less, honestly, but in a thread called Skywest or Compass I'm going to give my honest recommendation and opinion based on the depth of my experiences.

Which is what, only working for Compass? It's pretty bold (I'm being nice) to recommend them over OO right now considering the happenings over the last few months.

poorflyer
05-31-2017, 03:31 PM
Can't we all just get along!

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 06:36 PM
Which is what, only working for Compass? It's pretty bold (I'm being nice) to recommend them over OO right now considering the happenings over the last few months.

No, I laid out preconditions... if you live in the West coast or a very close, easy commute like PHX-LAX, I would recommend Compass for the E175/base/upgrade time. If you don't, I would recommend OO.
I'm here, I understand the "happenings", thanks, I'm sure they're very exciting for OO but if you were already west coast based at CPZ it's only meant a small delay. When you go up 20 numbers a month at a 700 pilot airline a slowdown is not exactly the end of the world. The planes make money, we make money under our CPA's, we have a great pilot group and no lifers.
I also said you are gonna be just fine at OO if you decide to go that way, too.

Work2much
05-31-2017, 06:39 PM
Which is what, only working for Compass? It's pretty bold (I'm being nice) to recommend them over OO right now considering the happenings over the last few months.

What are all here happenings you speak of? We are hiring 100 new hires and at a minimum 96 upgrades. Things are moving right along around here. All regionals see base closures (even the might SkyWest) and the DCI carriers know the delta shuffle all too well. Nothing out of the ordinary.

word302
05-31-2017, 06:47 PM
What are all here happenings you speak of? We are hiring 100 new hires and at a minimum 96 upgrades. Things are moving right along around here. All regionals see base closures (even the might SkyWest) and the DCI carriers know the delta shuffle all too well. Nothing out of the ordinary.

The point was losing aircraft and a hiring freeze while everyone else is scrambling to hire every pilot they can get a hold of. Closing the base where your company is headquartered. If you don't see why that might make someone nervous, I won't waste my breath explaining it to you.

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 06:58 PM
The point was losing aircraft and a hiring freeze while everyone else is scrambling to hire every pilot they can get a hold of. Closing the base where your company is headquartered. If you don't see why that might make someone nervous, I won't waste my breath explaining it to you.

Base has nothing to do with HQ, dude. Our training center is still there. Skywest isn't immune to the Delta shuffle, either. I understand what you're saying, but it's opinion and I'm entitled to mine as well. Ever heard the phrase "buy low, sell high"? Compass just took a beating in the market but it's set to rally... this is where you make your $. As the previous poster said, about to hire/upgrade 100 for the rest of the year, at a 700 pilot airline. That's a lot of movement. You're trying to cast fake "doubt". We didn't hire because we needed to shrink and didn't need to hire. I mean, it's called math, it's not sinister. Our delta block didn't change with MSP closing, it's just moved out west. The planes make money for DL, they aren't going to just sit for hours, new routes get added, it's the regional shuffle HEYyyy.

word302
05-31-2017, 07:05 PM
Base has nothing to do with HQ, dude. Our training center is still there. Skywest isn't immune to the Delta shuffle, either. I understand what you're saying, but it's opinion and I'm entitled to mine as well. Ever heard the phrase "buy low, sell high"? Compass just took a beating in the market but it's set to rally... this is where you make your $. As the previous poster said, about to hire/upgrade 100 for the rest of the year, at a 700 pilot airline. That's a lot of movement. You're trying to cast fake "doubt". We didn't hire because we needed to shrink and didn't need to hire. I mean, it's called math, it's not sinister. Our delta block didn't change with MSP closing, it's just moved out west. The planes make money for DL, they aren't going to just sit for hours, new routes get added, it's the regional shuffle HEYyyy.

Again, if you think that shrinking in this environment is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to cast anything. If you think I'm the only person who understands math well...

You can't tell me that if OO were to close SLC that it wouldn't be a bad sign for the company. A couple years ago Compass was the flavor of the month. Now not so much. I chose a place that has never been and will likely never be the flavor of the month.

mpet
05-31-2017, 07:21 PM
Again, if you think that shrinking in this environment is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to cast anything. If you think I'm the only person who understands math well...

You can't tell me that if OO were to close SLC that it wouldn't be a bad sign for the company. A couple years ago Compass was the flavor of the month. Now not so much. I chose a place that has never been and will likely never be the flavor of the month.

if you think losing six airplanes means the sky is failing just see what awaits skywest when the regional model finally ****s the bed.

word302
05-31-2017, 07:42 PM
if you think losing six airplanes means the sky is failing just see what awaits skywest when the regional model finally ****s the bed.

I'm not worried. Are you?

veewan
05-31-2017, 07:43 PM
Since people are talking numbers....

If Compass hires 100 pilots over the course of a year and upgrades 96, how does that compare to SkyWest?

I've heard it's about 100 new hires a month at SkyWest and upgrading 75/month. Anyone on the inside care to share better Intel?

IF the numbers I've presented are correct, SkyWest is hiring about 28% of their seniority list in a year meaning attrition must be higher. Compass based on those numbers is hiring 12.5%

Based on the 96 upgrades at a 800 pilot company Compass is upgrading 12% of their list.

If SkyWest is doing 75 upgrades per month then they are at about 21%.

word302
05-31-2017, 07:47 PM
Since people are talking numbers....

If Compass hires 100 pilots over the course of a year and upgrades 96, how does that compare to SkyWest?

I've heard it's about 100 new hires a month at SkyWest and upgrading 75/month. Anyone on the inside care to share better Intel?

IF the numbers I've presented are correct, SkyWest is hiring about 28% of their seniority list in a year meaning attrition must be higher. Compass based on those numbers is hiring 12.5%

Based on the 96 upgrades at a 800 pilot company Compass is upgrading 12% of their list.

If SkyWest is doing 75 upgrades per month then they are at about 21%.

Those numbers are pretty inflated. The hiring might have been that high for a few months, but I don't think our best month has seen 75 upgrades. We're hiring 50 to 70 and upgrading 30 to 50 per month. The list has grown by over 1000 in the last 3 years. We are somehow still outpacing attrition although I don't know how much longer that can last.

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 07:48 PM
Again, if you think that shrinking in this environment is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to cast anything. If you think I'm the only person who understands math well...

You can't tell me that if OO were to close SLC that it wouldn't be a bad sign for the company. A couple years ago Compass was the flavor of the month. Now not so much. I chose a place that has never been and will likely never be the flavor of the month.

If you think that being fired for missing your commute too often is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think that 40 upgrades a month is "movement" at a 4500 pilot airline, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think it's fine that they can withhold your upgrade for right seat staffing in your category and award it somebody junior to you, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think Skywest Inc hasn't lost planes "in this environment" that's cause they take them away from Expressjet.

word302
05-31-2017, 08:02 PM
If you think that being fired for missing your commute too often is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think that 40 upgrades a month is "movement" at a 4500 pilot airline, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think it's fine that they can withhold your upgrade for right seat staffing in your category and award it somebody junior to you, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think Skywest Inc hasn't lost planes "in this environment" that's cause they take them away from Expressjet.

1. You have to work really hard to get fired here. We're talking silly hard. I doubt anyone has been fired for "just" missing their commute to many times.
2. We upgrade about 1% of the list every month. That's pretty good (right about what you guys are doing).
3. Just really isn't happening. It has for short spurts. If it did, I would be pay protected. Fly my cushy senior FO schedule for captain pay? Sign me up.
4. We grow every month. We fly for 4 major carriers. If we lose planes for one carrier, we can usually find flying for them somewhere else. That's what happens when you OWN your airplanes.

veewan
05-31-2017, 08:09 PM
If you think that being fired for missing your commute too often is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think that 40 upgrades a month is "movement" at a 4500 pilot airline, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think it's fine that they can withhold your upgrade for right seat staffing in your category and award it somebody junior to you, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think Skywest Inc hasn't lost planes "in this environment" that's cause they take them away from Expressjet.

Were you fired for missing your commute? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting fired for that.

40 upgrades​ a month is on par with what compass is planning to do on a percentage basis it's still about 11% but that's not stopped, where at Compass there has been a 6 month freeze.

If SkyWest does withhold your upgrade, to put someone junior in the left seat, they pay you Captain pay. And guess what you bid very high credit trips as an FO.
At Compass there are a couple guys who should have been awarded Captain who are in the right seat. Guess what they're getting paid FO pay and hoping the union will give them back pay. If they do get it likely it'll be for the difference between their trips they flew and CA reserve pay.

word302
05-31-2017, 08:12 PM
Were you fired for missing your commute? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting fired for that.

40 upgrades​ a month is on par with what compass is planning to do on a percentage basis it's still about 11% but that's not stopped, where at Compass there has been a 6 month freeze.

If SkyWest does withhold your upgrade, to put someone junior in the left seat, they pay you Captain pay. And guess what you bid very high credit trips as an FO.
At Compass there are a couple guys who should have been awarded Captain who are in the right seat. Guess what they're getting paid FO pay and hoping the union will give them back pay. If they do get it likely it'll be for the difference between their trips they flew and CA reserve pay.

Heresy.:cool:

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 09:06 PM
1. You have to work really hard to get fired here. We're talking silly hard. I doubt anyone has been fired for "just" missing their commute to many times.
2. We upgrade about 1% of the list every month. That's pretty good (right about what you guys are doing).
3. Just really isn't happening. It has for short spurts. If it did, I would be pay protected. Fly my cushy senior FO schedule for captain pay? Sign me up.
4. We grow every month. We fly for 4 major carriers. If we lose planes for one carrier, we can usually find flying for them somewhere else. That's what happens when you OWN your airplanes.

1. So you say, but that's up to the kindness of management, nothing in writing. New management could change that at any time, with no union to protect your job and the years you have invested.
2. That's great. If we really stay at 16 a mo that's closer to 2.3% but I have my doubts that every month will be 16, gonna depend on attrition.
3. It has happened, for short spurts, and it's wrong. Again, no union. You may view it as no big deal, but people shouldn't be withheld from an upgrade they can hold. That hasn't happened here.
4. No, THIS is what happens when you OWN your own airplanes:
SkyWest posts $162 million net loss in 2016 | Airline Financials content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/airline-financials/skywest-posts-162-million-net-loss-2016)

I'm done with this, tho, have fun at OO, not saying it's a bad choice... but your "intuitions" and "prognostications" about this airline are pretty ridiculous. This ship ain't sinking, and CPZ is still a good choice for west coast people. The classes will either be full or they won't, and if they aren't they'll address the issue.

word302
05-31-2017, 09:13 PM
1. So you say, but that's up to the kindness of management, nothing in writing. New management could change that at any time, with no union to protect your job and the years you have invested.
2. That's great. If we really stay at 16 a mo that's closer to 2.3% but I have my doubts that every month will be 16, gonna depend on attrition.
3. It has happened, for short spurts, and it's wrong. Again, no union. You may view it as no big deal, but people shouldn't be withheld from an upgrade they can hold. That hasn't happened here.
4. No, THIS is what happens when you OWN your own airplanes:
SkyWest posts $162 million net loss in 2016 | Airline Financials content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/airline-financials/skywest-posts-162-million-net-loss-2016)

I'm done with this, tho, have fun at OO, not saying it's a bad choice... but your "intuitions" and "prognostications" about this airline are pretty ridiculous. This ship ain't sinking, and CPZ is still a good choice for west coast people. The classes will either be full or they won't, and if they aren't they'll address the issue.

Well you keep grasping. Love that you posted a link to Inc's earnings. You do realize that's a holding company? OO has been printing money for years. XJT not so much.

veewan
05-31-2017, 09:16 PM
1. So you say, but that's up to the kindness of management, nothing in writing. New management could change that at any time, with no union to protect your job and the years you have invested.
2. That's great. If we really stay at 16 a mo that's closer to 2.3% but I have my doubts that every month will be 16, gonna depend on attrition.
3. It has happened, for short spurts, and it's wrong. Again, no union. You may view it as no big deal, but people shouldn't be withheld from an upgrade they can hold. That hasn't happened here.
4. No, THIS is what happens when you OWN your own airplanes:
SkyWest posts $162 million net loss in 2016 | Airline Financials content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/airline-financials/skywest-posts-162-million-net-loss-2016)

I'm done with this, tho, have fun at OO, not saying it's a bad choice... but your "intuitions" and "prognostications" about this airline are pretty ridiculous. This ship ain't sinking, and CPZ is still a good choice for west coast people. The classes will either be full or they won't, and if they aren't they'll address the issue.

There are people who should have been awarded Captain who did not get it even though their seniority held it at Compass. Don't believe me ask around, heck ask ALPA. They're currently fighting the company on it.

Idk getting kept in the right seat at Captain pay on a senior FO schedule sounds pretty sweet. My guess is their non-union has that in writing.

SkyWest peeps, do you have an agreement in writing with your company regarding pay, scheduling, seniority etc?

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 09:46 PM
There are people who should have been awarded Captain who did not get it even though their seniority held it at Compass. Don't believe me ask around, heck ask ALPA. They're currently fighting the company on it.

Idk getting kept in the right seat at Captain pay on a senior FO schedule sounds pretty sweet. My guess is their non-union has that in writing.

SkyWest peeps, do you have an agreement in writing with your company regarding pay, scheduling, seniority etc?

I haven't heard that and they haven't sent anything out on it... when did that happen? also, there is a mechanism in place called a grievance to actually right it, but the company has zero incentive (since only one fleet type...) to hold people back, soo...

veewan
05-31-2017, 10:10 PM
I haven't heard that and they haven't sent anything out on it... when did that happen? also, there is a mechanism in place called a grievance to actually right it, but the company has zero incentive (since only one fleet type...) to hold people back, soo...

Well I don't think the union was planning to send anything out. It happened just about the time the hiring freeze was about to hit. One or two guys at least that I've heard of, had the time and the seniority to hold Captain. They had a bid in and were bypassed due to how either the computer or someone processed it.

They put a grievance in and now they wait. From the right seat. The thing is they are too junior to hold CA now that everyone in the freeze has their time. Might be part of why it's not talked about too much. Even if they get these people into the left seat or retro pay, it'll upset folks senior to them depending on how it's handled.

Paid2fly
05-31-2017, 11:00 PM
I haven't heard that and they haven't sent anything out on it... when did that happen? also, there is a mechanism in place called a grievance to actually right it, but the company has zero incentive (since only one fleet type...) to hold people back, soo...







You keep forgetting the most important detail... You guys work for the same guy that started Gojets to hose TSA. Checkmate!:eek:

TillerTemptress
05-31-2017, 11:18 PM
Because the management of Skywest are just total angels. :D
Yeah, they're treating Expressjet pilots just great. which is why 40% of them have left for compass!

Work2much
06-01-2017, 05:25 AM
Were you fired for missing your commute? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting fired for that.

40 upgrades​ a month is on par with what compass is planning to do on a percentage basis it's still about 11% but that's not stopped, where at Compass there has been a 6 month freeze.

If SkyWest does withhold your upgrade, to put someone junior in the left seat, they pay you Captain pay. And guess what you bid very high credit trips as an FO.
At Compass there are a couple guys who should have been awarded Captain who are in the right seat. Guess what they're getting paid FO pay and hoping the union will give them back pay. If they do get it likely it'll be for the difference between their trips they flew and CA reserve pay.

Breaking news: Whatever you hear isn't always true. SkyWest isn't hiring 100 per month nor are they upgrading 75 per month. Just because you haven't heard of something happening doesn't mean it has or does happen. Can't really come up with your alternative facts and treat them like fact unless you're...well, you know who.
Who do you work for? If you're a Compass pilot I suggest you apply to SkyWest. You obviously have a love affair with them.

Work2much
06-01-2017, 05:29 AM
There are people who should have been awarded Captain who did not get it even though their seniority held it at Compass. Don't believe me ask around, heck ask ALPA. They're currently fighting the company on it.

Idk getting kept in the right seat at Captain pay on a senior FO schedule sounds pretty sweet. My guess is their non-union has that in writing.

SkyWest peeps, do you have an agreement in writing with your company regarding pay, scheduling, seniority etc?

Why were these people allegedly not awarded captain? Were they awarded but didn't pass training? Why ask ALPA when you could tell us right now if it's not a secret?

Poser765
06-01-2017, 06:18 AM
Well I don't think the union was planning to send anything out. It happened just about the time the hiring freeze was about to hit. One or two guys at least that I've heard of, had the time and the seniority to hold Captain. They had a bid in and were bypassed due to how either the computer or someone processed it.

They put a grievance in and now they wait. From the right seat. The thing is they are too junior to hold CA now that everyone in the freeze has their time. Might be part of why it's not talked about too much. Even if they get these people into the left seat or retro pay, it'll upset folks senior to them depending on how it's handled.that is entirely different than being awarded then held back intentionally.

Roguesquadren2
06-01-2017, 06:41 AM
What my friend was trying to say is that your airline has a lot of lifers. Sorry for the confusion. Carry on...

It is my understanding that FO's in LA at Compass bidding 70% are still on reserve is this true?

gojo
06-01-2017, 06:48 AM
1. You have to work really hard to get fired here. We're talking silly hard. I doubt anyone has been fired for "just" missing their commute to many times.
2. We upgrade about 1% of the list every month. That's pretty good (right about what you guys are doing).
3. Just really isn't happening. It has for short spurts. If it did, I would be pay protected. Fly my cushy senior FO schedule for captain pay? Sign me up.
4. We grow every month. We fly for 4 major carriers. If we lose planes for one carrier, we can usually find flying for them somewhere else. That's what happens when you OWN your airplanes.

That formula is probably the biggest reason Skywest does so well. That keeps debt off their major partners books

Roguesquadren2
06-01-2017, 06:54 AM
If you think that being fired for missing your commute too often is not a negative, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think that 40 upgrades a month is "movement" at a 4500 pilot airline, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think it's fine that they can withhold your upgrade for right seat staffing in your category and award it somebody junior to you, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think Skywest Inc hasn't lost planes "in this environment" that's cause they take them away from Expressjet.

Upgrade isn't everything... some move on without it 😊

veewan
06-01-2017, 07:23 AM
Why were these people allegedly not awarded captain? Were they awarded but didn't pass training? Why ask ALPA when you could tell us right now if it's not a secret?

Because of a glitch in Flica. They kept their bid in but for some reason it didn't see their 1000+ SIC.

veewan
06-01-2017, 07:30 AM
Because the management of Skywest are just total angels. :D
Yeah, they're treating Expressjet pilots just great. which is why 40% of them have left for compass!

What would have happened to Express Jet had SkyWest not bought them? Does anyone else remember that they were Continental Express, they became an independent airline then had financial troubles. That's how I remember it but maybe I missed the full version. So SkyWest buying Express Jet kept pilots employed.

Right now they also have the United CPP. Sounds like terrible treatment. Oh and that awful conflict bidding they have, who would want to get paid for trips they don't have to fly that touch vacation.

word302
06-01-2017, 07:36 AM
Breaking news: Whatever you hear isn't always true. SkyWest isn't hiring 100 per month nor are they upgrading 75 per month. Just because you haven't heard of something happening doesn't mean it has or does happen. Can't really come up with your alternative facts and treat them like fact unless you're...well, you know who.
Who do you work for? If you're a Compass pilot I suggest you apply to SkyWest. You obviously have a love affair with them.

Well we did hire over 100 for 6 to 8 months. The upgrade number is definitely inflated. I don't think we ever hit 75 in a month. I think the biggest month was a little over 60. Probably averaging 40 or 50 before the summer slow down hit.

zondaracer
06-01-2017, 08:46 AM
Now SkyWest has officially announced opening a BOI and SAN base, E175 only.

amcnd
06-01-2017, 11:06 AM
SkyWest net pilots for May was +47. They lost 48 in MAY.. Compass is definitely a lot smaller. So if they were to get even 10 airplanes growth at would be like SkyWest getting 40... But the West Coast is ablut to get mkre Jr . Because of SAN/BOI opening up..

Paid2fly
06-01-2017, 05:21 PM
Because the management of Skywest are just total angels. :D
Yeah, they're treating Expressjet pilots just great. which is why 40% of them have left for compass!







I have not, nor will I ever utter anything regarding any airline management being even remotely angelic.;)

TheFly
06-01-2017, 09:27 PM
SkyWest just announced BOI and SAN domiciles opening this year.

Work2much
06-02-2017, 06:36 AM
SkyWest just announced BOI and SAN domiciles opening this year.

and a reduction in SEA flying with that?

amcnd
06-02-2017, 10:44 AM
and a reduction in SEA flying with that?

No. BOI supports DL/UA flying. SAN is for the new AS flights.. what does that mean for SEA?? Probably nothing. But only time will tell..

TillerTemptress
06-02-2017, 10:57 AM
That's not what I hear from the SEA OO pilots about a reduction in flying. Regional shuffle affects EVERYBODY.

Work2much
06-02-2017, 11:41 AM
No. BOI supports DL/UA flying. SAN is for the new AS flights.. what does that mean for SEA?? Probably nothing. But only time will tell..

So which is it? Sounds like it's an unsure thing. I'm hearing there will be a reduction on the DL side in SEA.

WesternSkies
06-02-2017, 11:48 AM
That's not what I hear from the SEA OO pilots about a reduction in flying. Regional shuffle affects EVERYBODY.

SEA
CRJ BLK/Day grew by 6% this month.
ERJ BLK/Day great by 7% this month

July info has not been released.

zondaracer
06-02-2017, 12:04 PM
So which is it? Sounds like it's an unsure thing. I'm hearing there will be a reduction on the DL side in SEA.

Those BOI pilots have to come from somewhere. The flying will still be there, but some of the trips will be built with a start and finish in Boise.

TheFly
06-02-2017, 03:59 PM
SEA
CRJ BLK/Day grew by 6% this month.
ERJ BLK/Day great by 7% this month

July info has not been released.

It would appear the temptress has a great disdain for SKW. Why this is, I don't now. Let it go...Let. It. Go. It isn't healthy!

poorflyer
06-02-2017, 04:57 PM
Seriously. I've had plenty of Skywest guys in the jumpseat and they're all super nice and wish nothing but the best for us and I wish the same for y'all. I would like to think we're all in this **** system together and that we should hope for the best.

TillerTemptress
06-02-2017, 09:33 PM
Hey, they're fine in person but they come on here and act like they're better than us, yeah I have a problem with it. We have our issues, they have theirs. This place isn't shutting down because it lost 6 airplanes or a MSP base, it's still a good option for west coast people. The thread is literally called "Skywest or Compass".
Also, great for you that SEA grew in June. That's called a normal summer bump, though. Both CPZ and OO are showing an increase in departures out of SEA for both June and July, at least on the Delta end of things. BOTH can grow. That's actually GOOD for everybody. However, obviously you're going to lose some SEA with SAN opening as Horizon takes over SEA stuff and you open up new flying in SAN. That hardly seems controversial, but OK, there it is.

EdwinR
06-03-2017, 11:48 AM
I tink you'd have to be loco to pick compass airlines right now. SKYWEST is getting 129 airplanes and rumor is compass is going to lose a bunch of delta airplanes in the next few anos. I'm very happy to fly at SKYWEST.

TillerTemptress
06-03-2017, 12:03 PM
I tink you'd have to be loco to pick compass airlines right now. SKYWEST is getting 129 airplanes and rumor is compass is going to lose a bunch of delta airplanes in the next few anos. I'm very happy to fly at SKYWEST.

see above comment :rolleyes:

Rogdixon
06-03-2017, 12:16 PM
see above comment :rolleyes:

"Agreeeeeeed"

N200NN
06-03-2017, 01:00 PM
see above comment :rolleyes:

Word.... Kool Aid is strong on that one.

EdwinR
06-03-2017, 01:04 PM
I read on the forumboards that Envoy (eagle) is getting the American Airlines 175 aircraft back. This seems to be a big issue for compass airlines.

Poser765
06-03-2017, 01:58 PM
I read on the forumboards that Envoy (eagle) is getting the American Airlines 175 aircraft back. This seems to be a big issue for compass airlines.dude, I can beat that! I've got friends that are actual Envoy pilots, and THEY even claim they are getting our LA planes and flying.

N200NN
06-03-2017, 02:15 PM
I read on the forumboards that Envoy (eagle) is getting the American Airlines 175 aircraft back. This seems to be a big issue for compass airlines.

They've been saying that even before we were handed the keys to N200NN in Brazil.

Just like how your training department tells newhires that you're gonna have very big news at LAX that's somewhere along the lines of Delta-giving-Skywest-all-the-Compass-flying.

EdwinR
06-03-2017, 03:29 PM
You seem very defensive. I tink compass airlines had its time but that has passed.

N200NN
06-03-2017, 04:56 PM
You seem very defensive. I tink compass airlines had its time but that has passed.

Not defensive at all. Compass might've seen better days but its not the doom and gloom (read: titanic) that people here make it out to be.

Fact is, if you're someone who's looking for LAX right out of training and eventually out of upgrade, then Compass wouldn't be a bad choice.

Work2much
06-03-2017, 05:17 PM
I read on the forumboards that Envoy (eagle) is getting the American Airlines 175 aircraft back. This seems to be a big issue for compass airlines.

Trollllllll this stupid rumor is so 2016. When you come up with a new one let us know. Give.me.a.break.

amcnd
06-03-2017, 05:39 PM
I tink you'd have to be loco to pick compass airlines right now. SKYWEST is getting 129 airplanes and rumor is compass is going to lose a bunch of delta airplanes in the next few anos. I'm very happy to fly at SKYWEST.

The Number of planes keeps going up... LOL. No way its 129..40-60 this year maybe (thats still a lot). Yes there seems to be RFP's Out there. But DL is scoped out. UA? AA? AS? Lots of shuffling around right now also.. AW going from AA to UA..

veewan
06-04-2017, 06:47 AM
see above comment :rolleyes:

If you looked at EdwinR's post history, you'd see Compass was on their radar. Except Compass was not hiring at the time. In a market where all the other airlines are hiring, being the odd one out is a good way to pass up talent.

So you can see why they might be happy to be at SkyWest over Compass. SkyWest offered a class and employment.

If it was the other way around I'm sure they'd be defending Compass.

TillerTemptress
06-04-2017, 11:54 AM
And now we're all gonna sit back and take advice from a novice that's been at Skywest for 6 months and heard nothing but koolaid about all the new planes. Right-o.

EdwinR
06-04-2017, 11:59 AM
I must say talking to my friends who arrived at compass airlines late last ano I am very glad with my decision to do SKYWEST airlines. My friend was reserve for 3 weeks then went to a line and received a transfer to home. We have many good people and the rapid airplane deliverys will enhance the life of everyone. You can get hired at the beginning of wave at SKYWEST or the very end at compass airlines.

zondaracer
06-04-2017, 12:15 PM
I must say talking to my friends who arrived at compass airlines late last ano I am very glad with my decision to do SKYWEST airlines. My friend was reserve for 3 weeks then went to a line and received a transfer to home. We have many good people and the rapid airplane deliverys will enhance the life of everyone. You can get hired at the beginning of wave at SKYWEST or the very end at compass airlines.

One could argue that SkyWest may be at the end of a wave right now. Those rumored new planes are rumors until they make ah announcement. I drink the OO koolaid but anything can happen in this industry. I picked SkyWest and Compass was my second choice. There were times when I thought "maybe I should have gone to Compass," because my friends there seemed to be having quicker progression on the seniority list. In the end, I made a better choice with SkyWest but there was no way I could have seen two years into the future to see the situation that exists today. Everyone has their reasons for picking a regional and nobody can truly know what is the right answer until you are looking backwards.

veewan
06-04-2017, 02:24 PM
And now we're all gonna sit back and take advice from a novice that's been at Skywest for 6 months and heard nothing but koolaid about all the new planes. Right-o.

Or we could drink the Kool Aid at Compass and believe that MSP won't close, then a few days later it is announced etc etc.

You can drink koolaid from any management, and believe that they are angels. At the end of the day they're running a business, some just happen to value people more than others. Southwest point in case.

My point was that guy wanted to come to Compass yet went elsewhere due to the hiring environment. Now is quite a different time from 2001 or 2008. Especially with a level playing field, everyone needs an ATP or R-ATP.

Most of us remember watching people get hired into a airliner with 250 hours and a wet commercial. Yet some operations had higher requirements​.

So the question today for people going regional shopping is, what can you offer me? Sometimes it's just the fact that they can offer a class.

Imagine one of the applicants Compass has on file is offered a class somewhere else in a couple weeks, or a class at Compass in a few months... How many will wait months to start?

VIRotate
06-04-2017, 07:39 PM
I must say talking to my friends who arrived at compass airlines late last ano I am very glad with my decision to do SKYWEST airlines. My friend was reserve for 3 weeks then went to a line and received a transfer to home. We have many good people and the rapid airplane deliverys will enhance the life of everyone. You can get hired at the beginning of wave at SKYWEST or the very end at compass airlines.

Redacted for fear of feeding trolls.

middies10
06-04-2017, 07:51 PM
Trooollolololol. Quit feeding it.

Work2much
06-05-2017, 05:55 AM
omg please shut this thread down. Between Veewan's hard-on for SkyWest and the other trolls this has gone on long enough. My airline is better than your airline conversations can only go on for so long. Facts get merged with opinion and speculation (sounds like CNN and Fox News right?) and the conversation goes no where. Done and Done.

Poser765
06-05-2017, 07:04 AM
omg please shut this thread down. Between Veewan's hard-on for SkyWest and the other trolls this has gone on long enough. My airline is better than your airline conversations can only go on for so long. Facts get merged with opinion and speculation (sounds like CNN and Fox News right?) and the conversation goes no where. Done and Done.It's really sad that the biggest thread in our subforum is one that essentially an argument on who's better, us or OO.

Skywest is a good place to work.

Compass is a good place to work.

Skywest is good for some, and compass is good for others.

That's it's...everything else in this thread is crap.

Work2much
06-05-2017, 08:58 AM
It's really sad that the biggest thread in our subforum is one that essentially an argument on who's better, us or OO.

Skywest is a good place to work.

Compass is a good place to work.

Skywest is good for some, and compass is good for others.

That's it's...everything else in this thread is crap.

Exactly. That sums it up. Now, shut this thread down.

mdcny
06-07-2017, 08:49 AM
LAS.... he also forgot LAS commuters.

I'm a SKYW guy living in LAS. Haven't heard any rumors but that would be great!



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