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DirkDiggler
06-02-2017, 06:41 AM
I'm having a hard time grasping how the Skywest pilots are okay with a management funded body of representation (SAPA). This concept even appears to violate the RLA, yet there seems to be no action to join ALPA or if you're anti-ALPA, form your own in house union such as the Skywest Pilots Union, where pilots fund their own representation.

The following is case law from 2007 from the Skywest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee v Skywest Airlines.
(https://casetext.com/case/skywest-pilots-alpa-org-com-v-skywest-airlines)
MEMORANDUM AND ORDER GRANTING IN PART AND DENYING IN PART MOTION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION by CHARLES BREYER, District Judge. This is some of the deleted information removed from the other thread by the controversial moderator.

"B. SkyWest Funding of SAPA
Plaintiffs also contend that SkyWest's 100 percent funding of SAPA violates the RLA's prohibition on using "the funds of the carrier in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organization, labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining. . . ." 45 U.S.C. § 152, Fourth. In Barthelemy, the Ninth Circuit explained the prohibition:

Obviously, the line between cooperation and support is not an obvious one. Permissible cooperation becomes prohibited support once the union's independence is compromised. This is a subjective inquiry: the question is whether the assistance provided the union is in fact depriving employees their freedom of choice. It is not the potential for but the reality of domination that these statutes are intended to prevent.

Barthelemy, 897 F.2d at 1016. The Ninth Circuit identified four factors relevant to deciding whether company financial support has stifled employee free choice: (1) whether the employer assistance occurred in response to an outside effort to organize, (2) evidence of the union becoming beholden to the employer, (3) employee approval of agreements between the union and employer, and (4) whether the employer assistance is sustained or simply a one-time payment. 897 F.2d at 1017.

Plaintiffs have not subjectively demonstrated that SkyWest's 100 percent funding of SAPA has deprived the pilots of their freedom of choice. First, SAPA was not created in response to any outside effort to organize. Even if the Court does accept the hearsay evidence that SAPA was altered in direct response to a previous ALPA campaign, a modification of a group's practices in response to employees' desires after a failed campaign does not raise the same concerns as creating an entirely new organization to quell support for a union during a campaign. Second, Plaintiffs ask the Court to infer that SAPA must be beholden to SkyWest because of its funding without producing any evidence that SAPA actually has altered its practices or demands in response to management influence. Finally, pilots vote on and approve the agreements SAPA enters into with SkyWest, and the pilots even refused to ratify one agreement without certain modification. Moreover, the President of SAPA is an ALPA supporter and the record reflects that the relative merits of ALPA versus SAPA are actively debated at SAPA Board meetings.

On the other hand, SkyWest's unlimited funding of SAPA appears, on its face, to violate the RLA and SkyWest does not contend that there are any cases in the courts or even the NMB that have placed their blessing on such unfettered financial support.

In any event, assuming, without deciding, that SkyWest's complete and unlimited funding of SAPA violates RLA section 2, Fourth, the Court finds that the balance of hardships strongly counsels in favor of denying a preliminary injunction prohibiting such funding. SAPA has represented the pilots and been fully funded by SkyWest for over ten years without legal challenge. Though the length of SAPA's existence is not relevant to whether the funding is lawful, it does speak to the amount of "irreparable" harm Plaintiffs will suffer without a preliminary injunction. Plaintiffs' challenge could have been brought at any time during these past ten years; nothing of significance has changed. Also, given that the Organizing Committee had been campaigning for well over a year before seeking a preliminary injunction, it is unreasonable to grant the requested relief without the benefit of a full record. Moreover, SAPA serves several important administrative functions for SkyWest and its pilots, such as facilitating the FAA amnesty program and addressing employee complaints about pay errors and other issues. By prohibiting all SkyWest funding of SAPA, a preliminary injunction would threaten the completion of these activities which would harm both the airline and its pilots.

CONCLUSION
For the reasons explained above, Plaintiffs' motion for a preliminary injunction is GRANTED in part and DENIED in part. SkyWest, its officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and all persons acting by, through, under, or in concert with Defendant, pending a final ruling by the Court on the merits:
1) Are enjoined from prohibiting SkyWest pilots from wearing the dark blue ALPA lanyard with white lettering, and
2) Are enjoined from interfering with SkyWest pilots' oral communications with fellow SkyWest pilots regarding ALPA and the ALPA organizing campaign in non-work areas and on non-work time, and from interfering with SkyWest pilots' communication with fellow SkyWest pilots regarding ALPA and the ALPA organizing campaign through distribution of ALPA-related materials in non-work areas such as bulletin boards and crew lounges.
All other claims for preliminary injunction are denied. The parties are directed to appear for a case management conference on Friday, August 3 at 8:30 a.m. and shall meet and confer on the need, if any, for a bond and the amount of such bond. The hearing on Defendant's motion to dismiss is VACATED pending the Case Management Conference.
IT IS SO ORDERED."


1, 2, 3, GO!


Simpsons
06-02-2017, 06:48 AM
Nah, but I didn't read anything that you wrote either

TheFly
06-02-2017, 07:04 AM
ALPA gets a NO vote from me. Keep away, stay away.


DirkDiggler
06-02-2017, 07:10 AM
You do realize you can create your own union and not go ALPA correct? A pilot funded association and you call yourselves whatever you want. The point of the discussion is find out why pilots are okay with management funded representation.

Most of that text is a court order from a federal judge, not my opinion. See quotes.

CBreezy
06-02-2017, 07:29 AM
ALPA gets a NO vote from me. Keep away, stay away.

No ALPA or no union? Why do think that way?

Squallrider
06-02-2017, 07:37 AM
Funny how expressjet guys always want Skywest to be union...wonder why....

CBreezy
06-02-2017, 07:44 AM
Funny how expressjet guys always want Skywest to be union...wonder why....

I don't think it's Expressjet. The rest of the airline jobs in this country are union and many want to know why Skywest pilots detest them.

Squallrider
06-02-2017, 07:56 AM
I don't think it's Expressjet. The rest of the airline jobs in this country are union and many want to know why Skywest pilots detest them.

9/10 someone brings union up on Skywest thread they are at expressjet.
They aren't effective at regional level, look at expressjets, envoy, psa , Mesa threads and see if anyone is saying how great the union is.

Bucknut
06-02-2017, 08:32 AM
Alpa pays a lot of lip service to Regionals but when it comes down to it, the amount of money from dues and the operational profit margin always ends up limiting what can be done.

CBreezy
06-02-2017, 08:48 AM
9/10 someone brings union up on Skywest thread they are at expressjet.
They aren't effective at regional level, look at expressjets, envoy, psa , Mesa threads and see if anyone is saying how great the union is.

I think the more telling indictment is seeing how many of them want to see their Union dissolved and have the company dictate terms. The fact that your document compares your contract to that of the gains obtained by regional unions should tell you what you need to know.

rickair7777
06-02-2017, 10:36 AM
You do realize you can create your own union and not go ALPA correct? A pilot funded association and you call yourselves whatever you want. The point of the discussion is find out why pilots are okay with management funded representation.

This was SERIOUSLY considered a number of years ago (before the 2007 drive). Turns out the finances don't work due to startup costs, ie you would need a very large contribution from all pilots on day to provide enough funds to get going. Practically speaking, that would kill the idea since too many folks would balk at writing a big check, and vote accordingly.

Once established, it would also be hard to afford certain benefits which an alpa member would take for granted.

AA is big enough (and wealthy enough) to go it alone, SKW not so much.

Too bad there's not a national union for regionals only. I actually think that would be a good thing, force alpa majors to come to the table. Then perhaps regionals could either compensated better, or granted universal flow.

TheFly
06-02-2017, 10:54 AM
^yes, possibly a union that represents regionals only. Look at Mesa, Republic, GoJet, etc, all represented by ALPA. It's a conflict of interest in the truest sense, with the cons outweighing the pros (for regionals).

To the OP, what is your motive to push a union drive for a company you don't work for?

amcnd
06-02-2017, 11:07 AM
I like the idea. But remember when Eagle. Was 5 airlines... and the "devided" crew lounge. One side Wings West , 2 year Captains, the other Simmons 10 year FO's!!! How could you represent all airlines interests.. would be tuff..

rickair7777
06-02-2017, 11:11 AM
To the OP, what is your motive to push a union drive for a company you don't work for?

If you work for XJT...

If SKW voted in ALPA, that would open up the *possibility* of a common-carrier petition, which might *possibly* succeed. Since XJT is...

a) More senior longevity-wise and
b) Possibly headed to the same place comair went

It's possible that some of their folks could have an ulterior motive, especially if you're a lifer with no other six-figure skill sets.

I voted yes last time, but if there were a next time I'd probably need to see some sort of independent analysis of the likely-hood of common-carrier and the ramifications before I decided.

peepz
06-02-2017, 11:18 AM
If you work for XJT...

If SKW voted in ALPA, that would open up the *possibility* of a common-carrier petition, which might *possibly* succeed. Since XJT is...

a) More senior longevity-wise and
b) Possibly headed to the same place comair went

It's possible that some of their folks could have an ulterior motive, especially if you're a lifer with no other six-figure skill sets.

I voted yes last time, but if there were a next time I'd probably need to see some sort of independent analysis of the likely-hood of common-carrier and the ramifications before I decided.

I feel the exact same way. Well said.

DirkDiggler
06-02-2017, 11:26 AM
Funny how expressjet guys always want Skywest to be union...wonder why....

I think the entire airline industry wants everyone to be union. Even CapeAir of 200 pilots is union. The better question is why not? Which has not yet been answered.

I don't think it's Expressjet. The rest of the airline jobs in this country are union and many want to know why Skywest pilots detest them.

Exactly. Almost every other airline is unionized with ALPA or Teamsters.

9/10 someone brings union up on Skywest thread they are at expressjet.
They aren't effective at regional level, look at expressjets, envoy, psa , Mesa threads and see if anyone is saying how great the union is.

At least ALPA is going after Mesa in federal court because of the pay changes and work rule violations to certain pilots without negotiations. https://www.scribd.com/document/348798949/ALPA-vs-Mesa Would SAPA go after Skywest? No, because they legally can't, they don't represent the collective group of Skywest pilots. So it will be up to each of you to retain an attorney and go after them if and when they do wrong by you.

DirkDiggler
06-02-2017, 11:32 AM
If you work for XJT...

If SKW voted in ALPA, that would open up the *possibility* of a common-carrier petition, which might *possibly* succeed. Since XJT is...

a) More senior longevity-wise and
b) Possibly headed to the same place comair went

It's possible that some of their folks could have an ulterior motive, especially if you're a lifer with no other six-figure skill sets.

I voted yes last time, but if there were a next time I'd probably need to see some sort of independent analysis of the likely-hood of common-carrier and the ramifications before I decided.

They did a survey of XJT pilots like a year ago and 75% of them were looking to get out over the next 2 years. Very very few lifers. Nobody will be left to give a crap. Including myself, I'm already on my way out to a three letter gov agency. And I have a business / six figure skill set / real job in addition. I started this thread out of morbid curiosity. I have not yet seen the answer as to why.

Five93H
06-02-2017, 11:39 AM
^yes, possibly a union that represents regionals only. Look at Mesa, Republic, GoJet, etc, all represented by ALPA. It's a conflict of interest in the truest sense, with the cons outweighing the pros (for regionals).

To the OP, what is your motive to push a union drive for a company you don't work for?

Republic and Gojet are Teamsters.

AboveMins
06-02-2017, 11:43 AM
b) Certainly headed to the same place comair went


... Fixed it for you, Rick.

amcnd
06-02-2017, 11:58 AM
ASA side has more "lifers" then L-XJT..

CBreezy
06-02-2017, 12:36 PM
If you work for XJT...

If SKW voted in ALPA, that would open up the *possibility* of a common-carrier petition, which might *possibly* succeed. Since XJT is...

a) More senior longevity-wise and
b) Possibly headed to the same place comair went

It's possible that some of their folks could have an ulterior motive, especially if you're a lifer with no other six-figure skill sets.

I voted yes last time, but if there were a next time I'd probably need to see some sort of independent analysis of the likely-hood of common-carrier and the ramifications before I decided.

I think the ulterior motive would be to have a job. I can only imagine the frustration if your boss growing the business, hiring pilots, while your seniority list shrinks and your airplanes get sent off to other properties. I think the motive would be, as with all unions, job security.

rickair7777
06-02-2017, 01:36 PM
I think the ulterior motive would be to have a job. I can only imagine the frustration if your boss growing the business, hiring pilots, while your seniority list shrinks and your airplanes get sent off to other properties. I think the motive would be, as with all unions, job security.

Entirely understandable, but I would understandably need to know the ramifications of a seniority integration on my family (I don't really care when or where I fly, but my family cares when and how often I'm home and when we take vacation).

wmupilot85
06-02-2017, 02:37 PM
Entirely understandable, but I would understandably need to know the ramifications of a seniority integration on my family (I don't really care when or where I fly, but my family cares when and how often I'm home and when we take vacation).

If it was to happen, it would take years, not to mention that I'm sure plenty of fences will be put up to mitigate the issues. With the movement that's happening in the industry, it would take a minimum of 3-5 years as an estimate to get it all done, and the regionals will be gutted by then.

ecam
06-03-2017, 09:38 AM
If you work for XJT...

If SKW voted in ALPA, that would open up the *possibility* of a common-carrier petition, which might *possibly* succeed. Since XJT is...

a) More senior longevity-wise and
b) Possibly headed to the same place comair went

It's possible that some of their folks could have an ulterior motive, especially if you're a lifer with no other six-figure skill sets.

I voted yes last time, but if there were a next time I'd probably need to see some sort of independent analysis of the likely-hood of common-carrier and the ramifications before I decided.

What union you're in or not in doesn't matter in a single carrier petition. An SLI/PID (Seniority List Integration/Policy Implementation Date) is filed with the union if both carriers are represented (ASA and CMR tried this in 2000 after DAL bought them) and forces a seniority integration. A single carrier petition is filed with the NMB (National Mediation Board), not the union. If one were filed and approved, it would force a referendum to decide representation, and my understanding is that ALPA isn't as popular over there as you think it is. The outcome of that would be a negotiated equitable seniority merger under Bond-McCaskill. The ASA/XJT side could theoretically file one any time they wish.

HermannGraf
06-03-2017, 04:40 PM
They did a survey of XJT pilots like a year ago and 75% of them were looking to get out over the next 2 years. Very very few lifers. Nobody will be left to give a crap. Including myself, I'm already on my way out to a three letter gov agency. And I have a business / six figure skill set / real job in addition. I started this thread out of morbid curiosity. I have not yet seen the answer as to why.

Why, because our company has devoted a lot to prevent that and they have manage to brainwash a lot of pilots or gain from many anti-union personalities joining the ranks.
Does the company protects you the pilots from Unions and because of that is doing you a favor? do you really think they care about YOU? Nah....I don't think that is why they devote a whole section on their site on why not to accept a union. At the same time they pay Sapa and fool the pilots to believe they have some form of representation.

Why is it that we have to accept that Expressjet has a better 401K match compensation than what we have at Skywest? Did they not buy Expressjet with the money we helped the company to make?
Why would we accept Inc. compensating Expressjet pilots in any way better than us?

Duesenflieger
06-04-2017, 08:06 AM
Why, because our company has devoted a lot to prevent that and they have manage to brainwash a lot of pilots or gain from many anti-union personalities joining the ranks.
Does the company protects you the pilots from Unions and because of that is doing you a favor? do you really think they care about YOU? Nah....I don't think that is why they devote a whole section on their site on why not to accept a union. At the same time they pay Sapa and fool the pilots to believe they have some form of representation.

Why is it that we have to accept that Expressjet has a better 401K match compensation than what we have at Skywest? Did they not buy Expressjet with the money we helped the company to make?
Why would we accept Inc. compensating Expressjet pilots in any way better than us?

Oh, 100%. SAPA is nothing more than a charade meant to deceive the pilot group. They neither represent us nor care about our wellbeing so long as it does not affect the ability of the company to make money. SAPA is a mouthpiece for management's wishes, and they will do whatever supports the bottom line of the company and stakeholders. The few profit off the many (us). SAPA is competent at fooling outsiders and those within that have no idea who truly foots the bill for their undertakings.

Mercyful Fate
06-06-2017, 12:50 PM
Oh, 100%. SAPA is nothing more than a charade meant to deceive the pilot group. They neither represent us nor care about our wellbeing so long as it does not affect the ability of the company to make money. SAPA is a mouthpiece for management's wishes, and they will do whatever supports the bottom line of the company and stakeholders. The few profit off the many (us). SAPA is competent at fooling outsiders and those within that have no idea who truly foots the bill for their undertakings.

How long have you been a OO pilot?

untied
06-07-2017, 06:00 AM
Joining ALPA is CHEAP.

AND…you instantly get access to their VAST resources and expertise.

Funny how a lot of Skywest pilots look forward to the payoff at the "next level", but are unwilling to join their brothers in the fight for better working conditions and pay.

They want it all for free.

You guys need to get ALPA onboard, or ALPA carriers should look elsewhere when it comes time to hire.

There are a lot of good folks at Skywest that want to do the right thing. I hope you can find a majority soon to get this to happen.

Mercyful Fate
06-07-2017, 07:46 AM
Joining ALPA is CHEAP.

AND…you instantly get access to their VAST resources and expertise.

Funny how a lot of Skywest pilots look forward to the payoff at the "next level", but are unwilling to join their brothers in the fight for better working conditions and pay.

They want it all for free.

You guys need to get ALPA onboard, or ALPA carriers should look elsewhere when it comes time to hire.

There are a lot of good folks at Skywest that want to do the right thing. I hope you can find a majority soon to get this to happen.

http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

untied
06-07-2017, 10:37 AM
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

You know what would be funny?

The next time I interview a SkyWest pilot, I don't give him the job.:cool:

Mercyful Fate
06-07-2017, 11:48 AM
You know what would be funny?

The next time I interview a SkyWest pilot, I don't give him the job.:cool:

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

DirkDiggler
06-07-2017, 02:43 PM
In 2010 the Nation Mediation Board changed the rules to show that to win representation you must get a majority of all votes cast and a missing vote is no longer counted as a "no" vote. It is a lot easier to win a representation election now then it was prior to 2010. But you still need signed authorization cards from 50% of the class to submit the petition to the NMB to get an official vote going.

http://www.nmb.gov/documents/press-contacts/representation-manual.pdf (http://www.nmb.gov/documents/press-contacts/representation-manual.pdf)

Duesenflieger
06-07-2017, 02:52 PM
Joining ALPA is CHEAP.

AND…you instantly get access to their VAST resources and expertise.

Funny how a lot of Skywest pilots look forward to the payoff at the "next level", but are unwilling to join their brothers in the fight for better working conditions and pay.

They want it all for free.

You guys need to get ALPA onboard, or ALPA carriers should look elsewhere when it comes time to hire.

There are a lot of good folks at Skywest that want to do the right thing. I hope you can find a majority soon to get this to happen.

I for one would like to see it, but the chances of it ever coming to pass are slim at OO.

DirkDiggler
06-07-2017, 06:06 PM
I really don't understand why an average Skywest pilot would be against a union whether ALPA, Teamsters or their own. The point of this thread is to find out but I have not seen any real answers as to why. The ALPA 1.9% is pretty small and meaningless for the individual pilot, but as a whole, if the average median pilot salary was lets say $50k x 4200 pilots x 1.9%, that would be nearly $4 million a year the Skywest pilots can put towards programs that are in their collective best interests.

Mercyful Fate
06-07-2017, 07:12 PM
I for one would like to see it, but the chances of it ever coming to pass are slim at OO.

Still curious how long you have been hugging the right seat with OO....

untied
06-07-2017, 08:17 PM
I really don't understand why an average Skywest pilot would be against a union whether ALPA, Teamsters or their own. The point of this thread is to find out but I have not seen any real answers as to why. The ALPA 1.9% is pretty small and meaningless for the individual pilot, but as a whole, if the average median pilot salary was lets say $50k x 4200 pilots x 1.9%, that would be nearly $4 million a year the Skywest pilots can put towards programs that are in their collective best interests.

United and Delta alone pay about $100 million per year in union dues (combined). PLUS all the other carriers. SkyWest would have access to all those resources.

Regionals put in very little, but get all the same benefits of pilots paying much more.

It's a pretty good deal.

Blackwing
06-07-2017, 09:46 PM
I really don't understand why an average Skywest pilot would be against a union whether ALPA, Teamsters or their own. The point of this thread is to find out but I have not seen any real answers as to why.

*** are taught to not question authority, that's the big reason.

Mercyful Fate
06-08-2017, 03:34 AM
United and Delta alone pay about $100 million per year in union dues (combined). PLUS all the other carriers. SkyWest would have access to all those resources.

Regionals put in very little, but get all the same benefits of pilots paying much more.

It's a pretty good deal.

Me reading this....

http://replygif.net/i/1580.gif

Quarryman
06-08-2017, 08:47 AM
...**are taught to not question authority, that's the big reason.

And we have a winner!!

DirkDiggler
06-08-2017, 09:33 AM
Me reading this....

http://replygif.net/i/1580.gif

Didn't the Mesa pilots just get a million dollar grant from the Major Contingency Fund and JetBLue pilots $2.5 million just a few days ago. Things like that come in handy in addition to the big list of things Alpa does for pilots as a whole. But if you're so against them maybe you shouldn't be hired at a unionized major. Just stay at Skywest and enjoy all of the too many to name non-union benefits you receive. Oh? What's that you say? No benefits for being non-union workers, I'm sorry how silly of me.

Mercyful Fate
06-08-2017, 05:04 PM
Didn't the Mesa pilots just get a million dollar grant from the Major Contingency Fund and JetBLue pilots $2.5 million just a few days ago. Things like that come in handy in addition to the big list of things Alpa does for pilots as a whole. But if you're so against them maybe you shouldn't be hired at a unionized major. Just stay at Skywest and enjoy all of the too many to name non-union benefits you receive. Oh? What's that you say? No benefits for being non-union workers, I'm sorry how silly of me.

Just stay at SkyWest? Hmmm.....golly, that is news to me. When did I start at SkyWest?

TheFly
06-10-2017, 04:15 AM
http://static.politico.com/b1/9b/97ad537a4b44b8d49364de4a2e49/tennessee-union-lawsuit.pdf

RJDio
06-10-2017, 06:26 AM
Just stay at SkyWest? Hmmm.....golly, that is news to me. When did I start at SkyWest?

I thought we established that already ;)

DirkDiggler
06-10-2017, 07:52 AM
Just stay at SkyWest? Hmmm.....golly, that is news to me. When did I start at SkyWest?
Well you sound like you would fit in great over there. Maybe you should apply.

http://static.politico.com/b1/9b/97ad537a4b44b8d49364de4a2e49/tennessee-union-lawsuit.pdf

That case was settled/dismissed on 5/12/17. The issues really fall on the elected LEC/MEC reps. National isn't really involved in the day to day contract negotiations. Lots of shenanigans get played in any organization. I'm sure SAPA is not immune given they literally get paid by management. Kind of hard to go against the people that are actually paying you.

TheFly
06-10-2017, 08:55 PM
Well you sound like you would fit in great over there. Maybe you should apply.



That case was settled/dismissed on 5/12/17. The issues really fall on the elected LEC/MEC reps. National isn't really involved in the day to day contract negotiations. Lots of shenanigans get played in any organization. I'm sure SAPA is not immune given they literally get paid by management. Kind of hard to go against the people that are actually paying you.

Of course there are shenanigans in any organization. However, the cons of ALPA at a regional greatly outweigh the pros.

Mercyful Fate
06-11-2017, 06:03 AM
I thought we established that already ;)

Still trolling the regional boards. Sweet, im still under your skin.

450knotOffice
06-11-2017, 10:35 PM
Still trolling the regional boards. Sweet, im still under your skin.

Your one-liners are comically inept. Honestly, why DO you troll the Skywest boards, anyway? For years you've trolled the Skywest baord with literally ZERO to say that might be construed as even remotely positive in nature. Your post history is 100% composed of bombs and one overused MEME - all 808 posts to this point.

I'm not, and never have been, a Skywest employee, yet I have quite a few friends who are (or have been), which is why I've seen your stupid posts and even more stupid single over-used MEME over the past few years (see below). All want to move on, yet try to enjoy or endure their time there as much as they possibly can. YOU, however, want to come in with your one or two sentence drive-by's and consider yourself SO informed and worldly, culminating in your one and only comically and predictably over-used MEME.

Your thought process: "I'm so enlightened - as opposed to these SKYWEST pilot idiots - that all I have to do is type one or two vague, yet passively aggressive, questions, and I win, because they're idiot pilots, and I'm, well...me - Mr. Mercyful Fate".

If you're NOT somehow involved with Skywest, then WHY do you ONLY post in their threads? Why not ALL or MOST of the other airline threads?

There was a guy in this airline forum we call APC who was admired and hated all at once until he was banned (Sadly, actually. He was oddly entertaining). He was a former Eagle - and now AA - pilot who could take a half a page arguing his point(s) eloquently. He did not hesitate to take on anyone, yet he argued with a purpose. That was Eaglefly.

YOU, on the other hand, simply come in, drop broad based, vague questions/accusations, then fail to eloquently address your critics. You're an internet coward, especially compared to Eaglefly, who'd own you every day and all day. He was smart, something you've NOT demonstrated.

Let me leave you with this, since I know you'll respond with it. Pretty much, this is how we all consider you:
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

By the way, im should be spelled I'm. I (comma) M.

450knotOffice
06-11-2017, 11:02 PM
And since I know you'll respond with this...

One more time, just for YOU, LOL (and if you respond, then I KNOW I'M getting under YOUR skin) ;) :
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

Mercyful Fate
06-12-2017, 05:52 AM
Your one-liners are comically inept. Honestly, why DO you troll the Skywest boards, anyway? For years you've trolled the Skywest baord with literally ZERO to say that might be construed as even remotely positive in nature. Your post history is 100% composed of bombs and one overused MEME - all 808 posts to this point.

I'm not, and never have been, a Skywest employee, yet I have quite a few friends who are (or have been), which is why I've seen your stupid posts and even more stupid single over-used MEME over the past few years (see below). All want to move on, yet try to enjoy or endure their time there as much as they possibly can. YOU, however, want to come in with your one or two sentence drive-by's and consider yourself SO informed and worldly, culminating in your one and only comically and predictably over-used MEME.

Your thought process: "I'm so enlightened - as opposed to these SKYWEST pilot idiots - that all I have to do is type one or two vague, yet passively aggressive, questions, and I win, because they're idiot pilots, and I'm, well...me - Mr. Mercyful Fate".

If you're NOT somehow involved with Skywest, then WHY do you ONLY post in their threads? Why not ALL or MOST of the other airline threads?

There was a guy in this airline forum we call APC who was admired and hated all at once until he was banned (Sadly, actually. He was oddly entertaining). He was a former Eagle - and now AA - pilot who could take a half a page arguing his point(s) eloquently. He did not hesitate to take on anyone, yet he argued with a purpose. That was Eaglefly.

YOU, on the other hand, simply come in, drop broad based, vague questions/accusations, then fail to eloquently address your critics. You're an internet coward, especially compared to Eaglefly, who'd own you every day and all day. He was smart, something you've NOT demonstrated.

Let me leave you with this, since I know you'll respond with it. Pretty much, this is how we all consider you:
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

By the way, im should be spelled I'm. I (comma) M.
That was awesome! Guessing by the rage and tone of this post, you forgot your midol in your overnight bag.
Oh and by the way, you do not spell board as baord. Good times!

450knotOffice
06-12-2017, 08:50 AM
That was awesome! Guessing by the rage and tone of this post, you forgot your midol in your overnight bag.
Oh and by the way, you do not spell board as baord. Good times!

Rage? Haha! No rage here. Irritation? That's a more appropriate word.

Wait, I thought it was bored. Baord? Board? ;)

Nevjets
06-12-2017, 09:39 AM
My guess is that the reasons Skywest pilots don't unionize have to do with:

1. Apathy - most people don't think about it, don't know about, don't care about it.
2. Fear of the unknown - don't want to upset the apple cart. Management does just enough to appease pilots in this category and in number 1 above.
3. Anti-union management propaganda convincing pilots in number 1 and 2 above; and
4. The rest of the anti-union pilots.

Nevjets
06-12-2017, 11:11 AM
Entirely understandable, but I would understandably need to know the ramifications of a seniority integration on my family (I don't really care when or where I fly, but my family cares when and how often I'm home and when we take vacation).


No matter what the worst case scenario ramifications you can think of, it will never make up for the disproportionate fleet changes between the two airlines and accompanying ramifications to the pilots' families one of the airlines. When one regional had a total of 294 aircraft, 104 of which were large RJs and now has 381 (211 large RJs), compared to the other which had a combined 410 aircraft, 52 of which were large RJs and now has 174 (73 large RJs), its apparent what the real ramifications are of staying as separate pilot groups.

Mercyful Fate
06-12-2017, 12:03 PM
Rage? Haha! No rage here. Irritation? That's a more appropriate word.

Wait, I thought it was bored. Baord? Board? ;)

Pretty sad when you live in a world where you let forum posts irritate you. My hope is you continue your ranting.

word302
06-12-2017, 01:14 PM
Your one-liners are comically inept. Honestly, why DO you troll the Skywest boards, anyway? For years you've trolled the Skywest baord with literally ZERO to say that might be construed as even remotely positive in nature. Your post history is 100% composed of bombs and one overused MEME - all 808 posts to this point.

I'm not, and never have been, a Skywest employee, yet I have quite a few friends who are (or have been), which is why I've seen your stupid posts and even more stupid single over-used MEME over the past few years (see below). All want to move on, yet try to enjoy or endure their time there as much as they possibly can. YOU, however, want to come in with your one or two sentence drive-by's and consider yourself SO informed and worldly, culminating in your one and only comically and predictably over-used MEME.

Your thought process: "I'm so enlightened - as opposed to these SKYWEST pilot idiots - that all I have to do is type one or two vague, yet passively aggressive, questions, and I win, because they're idiot pilots, and I'm, well...me - Mr. Mercyful Fate".

If you're NOT somehow involved with Skywest, then WHY do you ONLY post in their threads? Why not ALL or MOST of the other airline threads?

There was a guy in this airline forum we call APC who was admired and hated all at once until he was banned (Sadly, actually. He was oddly entertaining). He was a former Eagle - and now AA - pilot who could take a half a page arguing his point(s) eloquently. He did not hesitate to take on anyone, yet he argued with a purpose. That was Eaglefly.

YOU, on the other hand, simply come in, drop broad based, vague questions/accusations, then fail to eloquently address your critics. You're an internet coward, especially compared to Eaglefly, who'd own you every day and all day. He was smart, something you've NOT demonstrated.

Let me leave you with this, since I know you'll respond with it. Pretty much, this is how we all consider you:
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

By the way, im should be spelled I'm. I (comma) M.

I think they call that an apostrophe.:D

Mercyful Fate
06-12-2017, 01:46 PM
I think they call that an apostrophe.:D

Mic dropped.

450knotOffice
06-12-2017, 01:48 PM
I think they call that an apostrophe.:D

Haha! Yup. Got me. It was late, lol!;):D

450knotOffice
06-12-2017, 01:49 PM
Mic dropped.

Wasn't YOUR mic, now was it? :p

450knotOffice
06-12-2017, 01:52 PM
Pretty sad when you live in a world where you let forum posts irritate you. My hope is you continue your ranting.

Forum posts? No. It's YOU. But you're a troll, so that's your job, right? And, no, my world doesn't revolve around this forum or anything anyone says in it. It's just info and entertainment.

Peace out, man. ;)

Mercyful Fate
06-12-2017, 02:20 PM
Forum posts? No. It's YOU. But you're a troll, so that's your job, right? And, no, my world doesn't revolve around this forum or anything anyone says in it. It's just info and entertainment.

Peace out, man. ;)

Yea, peace out. Guessing you are now wishing you did not waste your time with your laughable rant. Funny as hell however.

deadseal
06-12-2017, 08:00 PM
I'm former Skywest and a union is way better. What it really does is create a framework of rules and eliminates any subjective application by the Cpo or any company admin folks. No weird guilt trips for being sick, etc etc. it's a huge bonus and acts as a shield for all pilots. I'd hope to see you guys finally unionize

Duesenflieger
06-12-2017, 08:46 PM
My guess is that the reasons Skywest pilots don't unionize have to do with:

1. Apathy - most people don't think about it, don't know about, don't care about it.
2. Fear of the unknown - don't want to upset the apple cart. Management does just enough to appease pilots in this category and in number 1 above.
3. Anti-union management propaganda convincing pilots in number 1 and 2 above; and
4. The rest of the anti-union pilots.

I would say that you have hit the nail right on the head with all those points. For me it is number 2. Someone kicking the hornet's nest will lose their job if they keep pressing. At least that is what I would bet would come to pass. For a union to come about, things would have to deteriorate so much.... But that's the thing...as much as we complain about QOL at OO, our management tries its damned hardest to appease us so that a union never comes into being. Things aren't so bad. That is where apathy factors into the equation.

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 03:28 AM
I'm former Skywest and a union is way better. What it really does is create a framework of rules and eliminates any subjective application by the Cpo or any company admin folks. No weird guilt trips for being sick, etc etc. it's a huge bonus and acts as a shield for all pilots. I'd hope to see you guys finally unionize

Well that's it right there. People don't know what they're missing if they have never had it.

RJDio
06-13-2017, 07:02 AM
Still trolling the regional boards. Sweet, im still under your skin.

If you say so. Although it's quite comfortable up here in your head.

So Mike, what are you gonna do with that whopping 1% raise now that you don't have any more longevity increases? Tell us what a magnanimous offer it is.

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 07:39 AM
If you say so. Although it's quite comfortable up here in your head.

So Mike, what are you gonna do with that whopping 1% raise now that you don't have any more longevity increases? Tell us what a magnanimous offer it is.

Go ask Mike. I do not speak for him. All i hope is that you are making a goof thinking this is Mike. Because if you seriously believe it, you my friend have some serious life issues to come to terms with.

word302
06-13-2017, 11:01 AM
If you say so. Although it's quite comfortable up here in your head.

So Mike, what are you gonna do with that whopping 1% raise now that you don't have any more longevity increases? Tell us what a magnanimous offer it is.

I'm not really sure who he is but I do know he's not the guy you think he is.

Nevjets
06-13-2017, 01:37 PM
I'm former Skywest and a union is way better. What it really does is create a framework of rules and eliminates any subjective application by the Cpo or any company admin folks. No weird guilt trips for being sick, etc etc. it's a huge bonus and acts as a shield for all pilots. I'd hope to see you guys finally unionize


I've heard these stories from friends who worked there. One was transferred to the MOD to call out sick. And then had to explain why he was sick and if he was sure he couldn't work. Bubba deals with scheduling on commuting, or with the CPO, etc. It certainly helps the brown nosers or simply the people that are people persons, always doing and saying nice things with ulterior motives for the future favors. I've seen Skywest pilots buy Starbucks or chocolates or cookies to give to gate agents simply for asking to be listed for the Jumpseat. They were so conversational and interested in the gate agent until he got the Jumpseat. Then he acted like no one existed. I've been at a non-union pilot job and have seen this type of culture develop, fake relationships for future favors, raises, promotions, etc. For the normal people, having these rules simplifies life by having them to follow. Come in, do your job, follow the rules, be pleasant, go home, with no need to always be looking out for the next thing or always CYAing. Everyone is treated the same because the rules are the same for everyone. And with that, there is less resentment from real or perceived favored treatment.

word302
06-13-2017, 01:52 PM
I've heard these stories from friends who worked there. One was transferred to the MOD to call out sick. And then had to explain why he was sick and if he was sure he couldn't work. Bubba deals with scheduling on commuting, or with the CPO, etc. It certainly helps the brown nosers or simply the people that are people persons, always doing and saying nice things with ulterior motives for the future favors. I've seen Skywest pilots buy Starbucks or chocolates or cookies to give to gate agents simply for asking to be listed for the Jumpseat. They were so conversational and interested in the gate agent until he got the Jumpseat. Then he acted like no one existed. I've been at a non-union pilot job and have seen this type of culture develop, fake relationships for future favors, raises, promotions, etc. For the normal people, having these rules simplifies life by having them to follow. Come in, do your job, follow the rules, be pleasant, go home, with no need to always be looking out for the next thing or always CYAing. Everyone is treated the same because the rules are the same for everyone. And with that, there is less resentment from real or perceived favored treatment.

We are all more dumb after reading that.

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 02:06 PM
We are all more dumb after reading that.

Nev is a treasure trove of dumb statements.

deadseal
06-13-2017, 02:14 PM
He made sense to me. So maybe you should just chill and try to understand what he is getting at.
Because every other unionized pilot group does.
No ass kissers, no politics, no worries. Just the basic rules of a contract that you can adhere to, and life is good.
I'm telling you straight up. It's better with a union.
Imo

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 02:50 PM
That story reminded me of a time I had a SkyWest jumpseater. The guy had been there for 1.5 years and called out sick the week before riding with us. It was his only sick call in a year and he had to go in and have a meeting with his ORD CPO about it. We were both floored, like are you kidding me... a meeting?! What kind of nonsense is that. At XJT that is unheard of. If my CP called for a sick call meeting the conversation would go something like "yeah....that's interesting, no thanks ::click::" and there's really not much they can do.

word302
06-13-2017, 02:55 PM
He made sense to me. So maybe you should just chill and try to understand what he is getting at.
Because every other unionized pilot group does.
No ass kissers, no politics, no worries. Just the basic rules of a contract that you can adhere to, and life is good.
I'm telling you straight up. It's better with a union.
Imo

The point was none of that crap you guys are describing happens at OO, union or not. What good would ass kissing do us here? It's still a seniority based system. No politics? Lol, good one. There are politics everywhere. No worries? Haha. Talk to guys at Mesa and Blowjet and get back to me on that one.

word302
06-13-2017, 02:57 PM
That story reminded me of a time I had a SkyWest jumpseater. The guy had been there for 1.5 years and called out sick the week before riding with us. It was his only sick call in a year and he had to go in and have a meeting with his ORD CPO about it. We were both floored, like are you kidding me... a meeting?! What kind of nonsense is that. At XJT that is unheard of. If my CP called for a sick call meeting the conversation would go something like "yeah....that's interesting, no thanks ::click::" and there's really not much they can do.

Sounds like BS. You have to abuse the system really bad before you get on anyone's radar.

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 03:06 PM
Sounds like BS. You have to abuse the system really bad before you get on anyone's radar.

This was like 2-3 years ago now. But the guy was visibly nervous of his upcoming meeting. I asked him like 3 times just to be sure because I was in such disbelief. But he did say the CPO meeting was informal and just wanted to see how he was feeling or some crap. Sounds like strong arm tactics to me. It used to be that way with fatigue calls here. Call fatigued and boom CPO phone call. Now the CP is eliminated completely. Strong arm tactics. Either way, union is good for that kind of stuff. Tell them to **** off, drop a trip and call my union rep if they really want a sit down.

word302
06-13-2017, 03:24 PM
This was like 2-3 years ago now. But the guy was visibly nervous of his upcoming meeting. I asked him like 3 times just to be sure because I was in such disbelief. But he did say the CPO meeting was informal and just wanted to see how he was feeling or some crap. Sounds like strong arm tactics to me. It used to be that way with fatigue calls here. Call fatigued and boom CPO phone call. Now the CP is eliminated completely. Strong arm tactics. Either way, union is good for that kind of stuff. Tell them to **** off, drop a trip and call my union rep if they really want a sit down.

Still not buying it.

Utah
06-13-2017, 05:34 PM
Ever notice it's always the non SkyWest pilots pushing the union... And 98% of the time it's XJT or ASA. Surely there isn't a motive...


You know what guys, we're never going to merge list. Get over it and get on with your life. It sucks what's happening to you but blame INC and not us.

Some of you guys have been there for years and have seen this coming. WTF are you still doing there?

Nevjets
06-13-2017, 05:44 PM
The point was none of that crap you guys are describing happens at OO, union or not. What good would ass kissing do us here? It's still a seniority based system. No politics? Lol, good one. There are politics everywhere. No worries? Haha. Talk to guys at Mesa and Blowjet and get back to me on that one.


Well, I can only tell you what my friend conveyed to me and what that jumpseater did. I've also talked to another gal who was passed over for upgrade because they said she didn't have enough leadership qualities. She was not happy about them usurping her seniority. But also keep in mind that you don't know what you don't know. With my union, I can find out how many outstanding grievances there are and what they are for, how many, if any, group grievances there are, how many pilots have been fired and how many wrongfully terminated. At Skywest, it took one pilot tens of thousands of dollars to get his job back and made public due to having to go through a public federal administrative process. How many times does a pilot at Skywest is unable or unwilling to go through the time, expense, and hassle to greive an issue all the way to arbitration, or in Skywest case, a government administrative process? Many times, the union puts out communications of certain issues that come up with scheduling. They keep track of what scheduling is trying to get away with and let us know. At many non-union places, there is no such transparencies and it therefore creates a perceived situation that doesn't reflect reality. These anecdotes and apparent denial from others seems to be proof of that.

Nevjets
06-13-2017, 05:48 PM
This was like 2-3 years ago now. But the guy was visibly nervous of his upcoming meeting. I asked him like 3 times just to be sure because I was in such disbelief. But he did say the CPO meeting was informal and just wanted to see how he was feeling or some crap. Sounds like strong arm tactics to me. It used to be that way with fatigue calls here. Call fatigued and boom CPO phone call. Now the CP is eliminated completely. Strong arm tactics. Either way, union is good for that kind of stuff. Tell them to **** off, drop a trip and call my union rep if they really want a sit down.


It may not even be a strong arm tactic. I'm pretty sure the pilot was not disciplined. They do this to a pilot for the next time he considers calling in sick or fatigue. It makes the pilot think twice about it instead of letting the pilot make a safety decision without the pressure or hassle of having to answer questions to a superior. It's all part of conditioning pilots.

Utah
06-13-2017, 05:56 PM
The last time I talked to my chief pilot was 2004 and lets just say I call in sick a lot more than the average guy.


And seriously, every single one of your pilots make it through upgrade. You don't have anyone that doesn't?

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 06:06 PM
Ever notice it's always the non SkyWest pilots pushing the union... And 98% of the time it's XJT or ASA. Surely there isn't a motive...


You know what guys, we're never going to merge list. Get over it and get on with your life. It sucks what's happening to you but blame INC and not us.

Some of you guys have been there for years and have seen this coming. WTF are you still doing there?

Oh please, nobody wants to merge. 80% of the people have accepted the fate that we will most likely shut down. That's why this place is hemorrhaging pilots. There's a reason we went from nearly 5,000 pilots combined down to about 2,700 now. 1. We don't bend over for Utah like they would surely like us to. 2. We are unionized and tell them to pound sand when necessary 3. We have good contracts and would not take any concessions (rightfully so). They have been growing your side for the exact opposite reasons.

I think being non-union is equivalent to being a bright purple elephant. It's just so rare and doesn't exist. The other 99% of the unionized airline workforce is just in awe at how people can be okay with being non-union and receive daily injections of koolaid by management.

I'm not sure how you anti-union people will ever fit in at a unionized major. Maybe a non-union major will hire you.... Oh wait! That doesn't exist.

word302
06-13-2017, 06:11 PM
Oh please, nobody wants to merge. 80% of the people have accepted the fate that we will most likely shut down. That's why this place is hemorrhaging pilots. There's a reason we went from nearly 5,000 pilots combined down to about 2,700 now. 1. We don't bend over for Utah like they would surely like us to. 2. We are unionized and tell them to pound sand when necessary 3. We have good contracts and would not take any concessions (rightfully so). They have been growing your side for the exact opposite reasons.

I think being non-union is equivalent to being a bright purple elephant. It's just so rare and doesn't exist. The other 99% of the unionized airline workforce is just in awe at how people can be okay with being non-union and receive daily injections of koolaid by management.

I'm not sure how you anti-union people will ever fit in at a unionized major. Maybe a non-union major will hire you.... Oh wait! That doesn't exist.

It seems that our guys are doing just fine when they move on. Your 3 points are silly.

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 06:45 PM
It seems that our guys are doing just fine when they move on. Your 3 points are silly.

What we are seeing are a few here having issues with a non union carrier that is doing well, and has people happy to work there. Has to sting a bit. Kind of fun to watch actually.

deadseal
06-13-2017, 08:46 PM
Hey man, I'm just a dude that was mil turn Skywest turn major, I have no agenda, never worked at asa or xjt or whatever. Just interested in the psychology of it all and wanted to share that concrete work rules are way better. If you really think that you are better off without a union than I think you are a fool. No offense personally, I just can't seem to comprehend how anyone can trust a major corporation. Trust isn't the right word, maybe "fail to understand that they are trying to reduce cost as much as possible at your detriment." Spirit is another fascinating psychological drama of corporate greed. It's just interesting to me is all. I think my current company would take us to the cleaners if we weren't unionized. Not because they are "bad" or anything, it's just their job to reduce costs and increase efficiency. Just like my job is to show up on time ready to roll. We all try and do the best we can in our respective AORs.

I guess what I'm trying to give you is a perspective. Now that I have a union at my back it really is much better for the various reasons already stated. What you do with that nugget of info is obviously up to any individual.

word302
06-13-2017, 09:20 PM
Hey man, I'm just a dude that was mil turn Skywest turn major, I have no agenda, never worked at asa or xjt or whatever. Just interested in the psychology of it all and wanted to share that concrete work rules are way better. If you really think that you are better off without a union than I think you are a fool. No offense personally, I just can't seem to comprehend how anyone can trust a major corporation. Trust isn't the right word, maybe "fail to understand that they are trying to reduce cost as much as possible at your detriment." Spirit is another fascinating psychological drama of corporate greed. It's just interesting to me is all. I think my current company would take us to the cleaners if we weren't unionized. Not because they are "bad" or anything, it's just their job to reduce costs and increase efficiency. Just like my job is to show up on time ready to roll. We all try and do the best we can in our respective AORs.

I guess what I'm trying to give you is a perspective. Now that I have a union at my back it really is much better for the various reasons already stated. What you do with that nugget of info is obviously up to any individual.

So you went to a major and it's better, we get it. How long were you at OO?

deadseal
06-13-2017, 09:24 PM
1 year.......

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 10:21 PM
Hey man, I'm just a dude that was mil turn Skywest turn major, I have no agenda, never worked at asa or xjt or whatever. Just interested in the psychology of it all and wanted to share that concrete work rules are way better. If you really think that you are better off without a union than I think you are a fool. No offense personally, I just can't seem to comprehend how anyone can trust a major corporation. Trust isn't the right word, maybe "fail to understand that they are trying to reduce cost as much as possible at your detriment." Spirit is another fascinating psychological drama of corporate greed. It's just interesting to me is all. I think my current company would take us to the cleaners if we weren't unionized. Not because they are "bad" or anything, it's just their job to reduce costs and increase efficiency. Just like my job is to show up on time ready to roll. We all try and do the best we can in our respective AORs.

I guess what I'm trying to give you is a perspective. Now that I have a union at my back it really is much better for the various reasons already stated. What you do with that nugget of info is obviously up to any individual.

You call people fools, and in the same breath you say you mean no offense. Oh boy, here comes another one of those types.

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 10:24 PM
What we are seeing are a few here having issues with a non union carrier that is doing well, and has people happy to work there. Has to sting a bit. Kind of fun to watch actually.

What flavor koolaid did you get today? Swirlin’ Strawberry-Starfruit? Triple Awesome Grape? Or was it just plain old Raspberry? I'm pretty sure you're closet Skywest, just too afraid to say who you work for.

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 10:32 PM
What flavor koolaid did you get today? Swirlin’ Strawberry-Starfruit? Triple Awesome Grape? Or was it just plain old Raspberry? I'm pretty sure you're closet Skywest, just too afraid to say who you work for.

My non union point of view ****ing ya off there fella? You seem pretty sure of a lot of things obviously. You will learn here shortly, like many others that you are swinging blind at your assumptions.

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 10:37 PM
My non union point of view ****ing ya off there fella? You seem pretty sure of a lot of things obviously. You will learn here shortly, like many others that you are swinging blind at your assumptions.

Ah, so it must of been the Coco Dingle Berry flavor. How could I have missed that.

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 10:39 PM
Ah, so it must of been the Coco Dingle Berry flavor. How could I have missed that.

Wow, i have read some seriously pathetic attempts in the past for insults in a reply but this could end up taking the cake. This is 5th grade level stuff...step up your game or log off.

DirkDiggler
06-13-2017, 10:41 PM
Wow, i have read some seriously pathetic attempts in the past for insults in a reply but this could end up taking the cake. This is 5th grade level stuff...step up your game or log off.

Did I upset the troll?

Mercyful Fate
06-13-2017, 10:43 PM
Did I upset the troll?

More like making yourself look silly. I am even starting to feel a little bit guilty for letting you continue to hang yourself.

Is offline
06-14-2017, 05:44 AM
That story reminded me of a time I had a SkyWest jumpseater. The guy had been there for 1.5 years and called out sick the week before riding with us. It was his only sick call in a year and he had to go in and have a meeting with his ORD CPO about it. We were both floored, like are you kidding me... a meeting?! What kind of nonsense is that. At XJT that is unheard of. If my CP called for a sick call meeting the conversation would go something like "yeah....that's interesting, no thanks ::click::" and there's really not much they can do.

Ya that. Doesn't happen here, and at that time RG was the chief in Chicago and he was 100% behind the pilots. If you are sick call in and they say nothing. They are not allowed to transfer you to the mod or ask questions. I know pilots that have called in 30-40 times in a year and finally had the chief call to check on them and offer FMLA assistance.

deadseal
06-14-2017, 06:21 AM
You call people fools, and in the same breath you say you mean no offense. Oh boy, here comes another one of those types.

Hey man, re read what I said. Hence the "personally". It means " I don't think you are a bad person, just acting foolish". You seem very wound up, quick to take offense, and you lash out instinctively. I know people like that. They live in my house, won't flush the toilet, and cost a fortune. What is your agenda? I offered a calm valid view point of some who has been at Skywest and moved on. You are a childish troll. Good bye

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 08:06 AM
Hey man, re read what I said. Hence the "personally". It means " I don't think you are a bad person, just acting foolish". You seem very wound up, quick to take offense, and you lash out instinctively. I know people like that. They live in my house, won't flush the toilet, and cost a fortune. What is your agenda? I offered a calm valid view point of some who has been at Skywest and moved on. You are a childish troll. Good bye

Not wound up at all, as I have nothing to be wound up about. You however, seem to have an issue with name calling and insults while operating under the guise of "simply giving an opinion"......Just another hit and run poster who realized they made a little ooopsie in how they presented their opinion. Own what you said, and people will respect that a hell of a lot more than trying to paint some PC version of your point. You sir, failed in that attempt.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 08:24 AM
Not wound up at all, as I have nothing to be wound up about. You however, seem to have an issue with name calling and insults while operating under the guise of "simply giving an opinion"......Just another hit and run poster who realized they made a little ooopsie in how they presented their opinion. Own what you said, and people will respect that a hell of a lot more than trying to paint some PC version of your point. You sir, failed in that attempt.

There's nothing wrong with what he said. But if you look at your own post history you will see that nearly all your posts are troll posts. Kind of hard to dispute that you are in fact a troll.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 08:33 AM
There's nothing wrong with what he said. But if you look at your own post history you will see that nearly all your posts are troll posts. Kind of hard to dispute that you are in fact a troll.

Oh of course in your head it wasn't wrong, because you agree with what he posted. Look, there have been a lot smarter people than you that have tried this route with me, and failed miserably. I have had plenty of level headed discussions with people on here, many of which had completely opposite opinions than my own. Doesn't take long to figure out who those people are, and on the flip side see through the garbage people like yourself scrape up in here. You are a union drone that hates your opinions challenged, and reacts like a spoiled brat. Tuck this in your back pocket....

I don't give a rats anus about your personal opinion about me, so throwing the troll term around has zero impact on anything. Own your opinion, and quit being so thin skinned when you have your posts challenged. I am not here to make friends or make people feel all warm and fuzzy. If that bugs you, block me.

Hugs n kisses.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 08:39 AM
Oh of course in your head it wasn't wrong, because you agree with what he posted. Look, there have been a lot smarter people than you that have tried this route with me, and failed miserably. I have had plenty of level headed discussions with people on here, many of which had completely opposite opinions than my own. Doesn't take long to figure out who those people are, and on the flip side see through the garbage people like yourself scrape up in here. You are a union drone that hates your opinions challenged, and reacts like a spoiled brat. Tuck this in your back pocket....

I don't give a rats anus about your personal opinion about me, so throwing the troll term around has zero impact on anything. Own your opinion, and quit being so thin skinned when you have your posts challenged. I am not here to make friends or make people feel all warm and fuzzy. If that bugs you, block me.

Hugs n kisses.

Are you sure you are not talking about yourself there buddy. Except change that to non-union drone who hates his opinions challenged and resorts to insults and inciting anger when he doesn't like what's being discussed. Just look at your post history, people can figure out who the troll is and who isn't.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 08:49 AM
Are you sure you are not talking about yourself there buddy. Except change that to non-union drone who hates his opinions challenged and resorts to insults and inciting anger when he doesn't like what's being discussed. Just look at your post history, people can figure out who the troll is and who isn't.

I know exactly what my post history is, and more aware of it than you are. AND, if you have really done your homework with my post history, you would also know I don't have a horse in this race. If that statement confuses you, which is painfully obvious it does, then you are shooting blind in this whole discussion.

You know what is hilarious, the fact that you gave birth to this entire thread. Now, sit back and evaluate who has an issue with their opinions being challenged.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 09:40 AM
I know exactly what my post history is, and more aware of it than you are. AND, if you have really done your homework with my post history, you would also know I don't have a horse in this race. If that statement confuses you, which is painfully obvious it does, then you are shooting blind in this whole discussion.

You know what is hilarious, the fact that you gave birth to this entire thread. Now, sit back and evaluate who has an issue with their opinions being challenged.

Listen... mocking, insults, speaking down to people, and GIF's of a smiling George Zimmerman is troll behavior. None of that comes from me. I started this thread to have a discussion from union and non-union people about what they feel are the pros and cons of each position. You have not provided any opinions of merit or basis, just the above mentioned behavior.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 09:56 AM
Listen... mocking, insults, speaking down to people, and GIF's of a smiling George Zimmerman is troll behavior. None of that comes from me. I started this thread to have a discussion from union and non-union people about what they feel are the pros and cons of each position. You have not provided any opinions of merit or basis, just the above mentioned behavior.

If my post's are bothersome and upset you, there is a real simple solution. Ignore my posts, put me on block, whatever. Trust me, I won't and don't lose sleep. I for one, can take whatever anybody cares to throw at me. And trust me, I have had a fair share of garbage and name calling directed at me. And guess what? Doesn't bug me one bit. Guess that is a big difference between the two of us.

Grow a thicker skin, or disengage your responses to my posts. This is basic forum 101 stuff here dude.

http://i.imgur.com/XCavvfK.gif

GearUpHeadDown
06-14-2017, 09:58 AM
No union. Never here. See how much it does for every other regional? Ever read their threads? All they do is b:!ch and complain about them. They don't do much at this level of the business.

And if we ever did get one, it would set a precedent to merge lists with XJT. Be careful what you wish for.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 10:01 AM
We have heard a lot on here about the pros of Union and cons of non-union. Anybody want to list some cons of Union and the pros of non-union.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 10:02 AM
No union. Never here. See how much it does for every other regional? Ever read their threads? All they do is b:!ch and complain about them. They don't do much at this level of the business.

And if we ever did get one, it would set a precedent to merge lists with XJT. Be careful what you wish for.

Just because you are union doesn't mean a merger. You can go Teamsters or start your own independent union. Not many at XJT would want that either. It would generally mean concessions.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 10:08 AM
No union. Never here. See how much it does for every other regional? Ever read their threads? All they do is b:!ch and complain about them. They don't do much at this level of the business.

And if we ever did get one, it would set a precedent to merge lists with XJT. Be careful what you wish for.

Now this is someone who has done their research and understands the big picture.

http://i.imgur.com/k2n8wun.gif

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 10:18 AM
Now this is someone who has done their research and understands the big picture.

http://i.imgur.com/k2n8wun.gif

That whole line of thinking that ALPA only represents majors, conflict of interest etc doesn't apply to Teamsters or your own union. There is nothing wrong with having pilots pay for their own representation and fund their own negotiators at the bargaining table. Nobody has really explained why Skywest pilots think it's a good idea for pilot negotiators to be paid by management.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 10:28 AM
That whole line of thinking that ALPA only represents majors, conflict of interest etc doesn't apply to Teamsters or your own union. There is nothing wrong with having pilots pay for their own representation and fund their own negotiators at the bargaining table. Nobody has really explained why Skywest pilots think it's a good idea for pilot negotiators to be paid by management.

One thing to keep in mind, is that each airline is its own individual entity. Management styles and policies, work group styles and policies all differ from airline to airline. What is good for one airlines work group, does not automatically shift to another airlines work group. As I have stated before, there seems to be bitter feelings from unionized airlines pilot groups at SkyWest because the airline is running fine without a union, and they don't seem to want one either. Bottom line is, majority of the group is just fine with how things are and don't want the union.

Why in your mind do you feel SkyWest is in need of a union anyway? Always curious why someone who doesn't even work for the carrier is so concerned with its union situation? This some sort of "brotherhood" thing?

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 10:34 AM
The last time I talked to my chief pilot was 2004 and lets just say I call in sick a lot more than the average guy.





And seriously, every single one of your pilots make it through upgrade. You don't have anyone that doesn't?


My understanding is that she wasn't even given the opportunity to upgrade, didn't even get a class assigned.

Maybe the requirement to call a MOD exist for certain circumstances of sick calls? I know one captain who was fired for calling in sick in the middle of a trip, the case I alluded to earlier. I don't know but I'm not sure why anybody should have to talk to a Cheif pilot to call in sick regardless if it was 2004 or 2003.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 11:28 AM
One thing to keep in mind, is that each airline is its own individual entity. Management styles and policies, work group styles and policies all differ from airline to airline. What is good for one airlines work group, does not automatically shift to another airlines work group. As I have stated before, there seems to be bitter feelings from unionized airlines pilot groups at SkyWest because the airline is running fine without a union, and they don't seem to want one either. Bottom line is, majority of the group is just fine with how things are and don't want the union.

Why in your mind do you feel SkyWest is in need of a union anyway? Always curious why someone who doesn't even work for the carrier is so concerned with its union situation? This some sort of "brotherhood" thing?

Well you can bet you butt the regional CEO's, Bedford, Ornstein, Child's, are colluding at the RAA meetings on how to collectively keep pilots costs in line so they don't drive each other out of business. So pilots should be doing the same. For instance, if the XJT pilots came out tomorrow and said "hey we'll take a 20% cut across the board if you give us new planes and grow us and not the other side." What do you think management would say to Skywest side.... "Hey guys, XJT is going to take concessions, either you do too or else." See how this whipsaw can go back and forth until both pilot groups are essentially working for nothing. Unions represent solidarity and a common class of labor working for the same cause. It doesn't need to be ALPA. Just friendly discussions together to keep the pilots interests first, not management. Always keep that in mind, XJT could totally undercut Skywest and it could go the other way.

I won't be there for much longer so I'm just asking the questions that many have but may have never asked.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 11:37 AM
Well you can bet you butt the regional CEO's, Bedford, Ornstein, Child's, are colluding at the RAA meetings on how to collectively keep pilots costs in line so they don't drive each other out of business. So pilots should be doing the same. For instance, if the XJT pilots came out tomorrow and said "hey we'll take a 20% cut across the board if you give us new planes and grow us and not the other side." What do you think management would say to Skywest side.... "Hey guys, XJT is going to take concessions, either you do too or else." See how this whipsaw can go back and forth until both pilot groups are essentially working for nothing. Unions represent solidarity and a common class of labor working for the same cause. It doesn't need to be ALPA. Just friendly discussions together to keep the pilots interests first, not management. Always keep that in mind, XJT could totally undercut Skywest and it could go the other way.

I won't be there for much longer so I'm just asking the questions that many have but may have never asked.

You can do the "what if" scenario until the cows come home. Sure, XJT could undercut, as could Mesa, as could Republic, as could SkyWest. Another hard pill to swallow for many, is that work group's interests and management interests should be a 50/50 venture. It should be that way because one cannot exist without the other. Seems that for the time being, both sides of the fence at SkyWest seem to feel there is somewhat of a balance of having each sides interest in mind. You don't have to agree with that, but reality seems to reflect it.

TheFly
06-14-2017, 11:42 AM
That whole line of thinking that ALPA only represents majors, conflict of interest etc doesn't apply to Teamsters or your own union. There is nothing wrong with having pilots pay for their own representation and fund their own negotiators at the bargaining table. Nobody has really explained why Skywest pilots think it's a good idea for pilot negotiators to be paid by management.

Dirk, you sound really pathetic. You don't work for SkyWest Airlines yet you're hell-bent on us having a union. Please stop.

Skyhawk121
06-14-2017, 11:43 AM
Always keep that in mind, XJT could totally undercut Skywest and it could go the other way.

Dumbest thing I have read all day. How do you suppose XJT would undercut SkyWest. You know that both airlines have the same CEO right? Do you honestly think INC would let something like that happen?

Again, since you are not even a SkyWest Airlines pilot, why do you give a [email protected] about there not being a union on property? It doesn't have any impact on you in any way shape or form. Sounds like someone interviewed at SkyWest and wasn't offered a position.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 11:46 AM
Dumbest thing I have read all day. How do you suppose XJT would undercut SkyWest. You know that both airlines have the same CEO right? Do you honestly think INC would let something like that happen?

Again, since you are not even a SkyWest Airlines pilot, why do you give a [email protected] about there not being a union on property? It doesn't have any impact on you in any way shape or form. Sounds like someone interviewed at SkyWest and wasn't offered a position.

That is the million dollar question. There is for sure a history and a story behind all of this, one of which will never be disclosed.

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 12:01 PM
No union. Never here. See how much it does for every other regional? Ever read their threads? All they do is b:!ch and complain about them. They don't do much at this level of the business.



And if we ever did get one, it would set a precedent to merge lists with XJT. Be careful what you wish for.

If people think that places like mesa, TSA, endeavor, etc would've been better off without a union, then I would only guess that they are not really attuned with their situations. Most pilots are ignorant of that and take their representation for granted.

Plus, a pilot union is a lot more than just about a contract and how bad or good it is.




Why in your mind do you feel SkyWest is in need of a union anyway? Always curious why someone who doesn't even work for the carrier is so concerned with its union situation? This some sort of "brotherhood" thing?


Why in your mind do you feel SkyWest is in no need of a union anyway? Always curious why someone who doesn't even work for the carrier is so concerned with its union situation? This some sort of "brotherhood" thing?

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 12:06 PM
Why in your mind do you feel SkyWest is in no need of a union anyway? Always curious why someone who doesn't even work for the carrier is so concerned with its union situation? This some sort of "brotherhood" thing?

Because the pilot group says so, and time and time again feels it is in no need of a union.

Did you think through this question before you posted it?

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 12:20 PM
Dumbest thing I have read all day. How do you suppose XJT would undercut SkyWest. You know that both airlines have the same CEO right? Do you honestly think INC would let something like that happen?

Again, since you are not even a SkyWest Airlines pilot, why do you give a [email protected] about there not being a union on property? It doesn't have any impact on you in any way shape or form. Sounds like someone interviewed at SkyWest and wasn't offered a position.

You must be new...or know nothing about business. Probably both. They are two separate airlines by the same holding company. You think that if XJT pilots came in tomorrow and said we'll do it for 20% less than Skywest only if you give us the new planes, management will say "No Thanks, we like paying more"? What are you smoking... Shareholder interests are always first in a publicly traded company. Period. Btw, I'm not advocating at all for any of that, I would never advocate for a penny less in this environment. Just throwing scenarios out there. Why are you people so defensive?

GearUpHeadDown
06-14-2017, 12:51 PM
Can we please put this stupid union thread to rest and find something else to complain about? It won't do us any good and we are a much better airline without the drama associated with it. We have it better than every other "contract carrier" and are growing in spite of one. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

Skyhawk121
06-14-2017, 12:59 PM
You must be new...or know nothing about business. Probably both. They are two separate airlines by the same holding company. You think that if XJT pilots came in tomorrow and said we'll do it for 20% less than Skywest only if you give us the new planes, management will say "No Thanks, we like paying more"? What are you smoking... Shareholder interests are always first in a publicly traded company. Period. Btw, I'm not advocating at all for any of that, I would never advocate for a penny less in this environment. Just throwing scenarios out there. Why are you people so defensive?

Sorry, wrong on both accounts. Though I guess that depends on how many years you feel someone needs to complete before no longer being new. 20?? okay I am still new if that is the case, but I have been here for several years. I also have a business degree, so I know business very well. I know full well that they are two separate airlines that are owned by the same holding company, but guess who makes all of the really big decisions, the answer to that is SkyWest INC. Both COOs EV and OO work for Chip because he serves as the president for both airlines. I think people are "defensive" because no one like unsolicited opinions from people that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic they are trying to talk about. You don't know SkyWest, just because you work at EV, that doesn't mean jack.

Skyhawk121
06-14-2017, 01:01 PM
Can we please put this stupid union thread to rest and find something else to complain about? It won't do us any good and we are a much better airline without the drama associated with it. We have it better than every other "contract carrier" and are growing in spite of one. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

OOOO pick this one!

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 02:00 PM
Because the pilot group says so, and time and time again feels it is in no need of a union.

Did you think through this question before you posted it?



I was just curious as well because you don't work for Skywest and yet you were replying to someone else who doesn't work for Skywest about being so concerned with its union situation despite him not working for Skywest. Not a very complicated thought process as for the reason to basically ask you the same question you are asking of someone else who doesn't work at Skywest.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 02:05 PM
I was just curious as well because you don't work for Skywest and yet you were replying to someone else who doesn't work for Skywest about being so concerned with its union situation despite him not working for Skywest. Not a very complicated thought process as for the reason to basically ask you the same question you are asking of someone else who doesn't work at Skywest.

Considering the amount of stock I own in that company, union's are of a massive interest to me. So yes, I have a vested interest in everything that happens at the airline.

gsphuntr
06-14-2017, 02:13 PM
Spent 13 years with SKYW - I called in sick/emer for many years with no repercussions or hearing a word - HOWEVER, the "CP meeting" calls regarding "reliability" DID BEGIN around the mid 2015 time frame - those denying it are delusional. There were guys who called in sick for the first time in years that were insulted and intimidated by CP calls regarding their "reliability"... anyhow, carry on with your childish antics - it's mildly entertaining.
p.s. the grass is greener in the unionized pasture.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 02:31 PM
Spent 13 years with SKYW - I called in sick/emer for many years with no repercussions or hearing a word - HOWEVER, the "CP meeting" calls regarding "reliability" DID BEGIN around the mid 2015 time frame - those denying it are delusional. There were guys who called in sick for the first time in years that were insulted and intimidated by CP calls regarding their "reliability"... anyhow, carry on with your childish antics - it's mildly entertaining.
p.s. the grass is greener in the unionized pasture.

Graze away, and pay away!

gsphuntr
06-14-2017, 03:03 PM
not "paying away" anything you fool.... basically buying protection and representation for my 10+ million dollar career.

Would you get a divorce without an attorney? Would you get an attorney if you were falsely accused of a crime? Why not just represent yourself? Do you drive uninsured? do you insure your house? Do you invest on whims and dumb luck? Or do you use advisors and/or professionally guided mutual funds? life insurance? Maybe you do none of that? You're just an expert at everything...

I "pay away" $100 a year to "belong" to Costco...why? Because it saves me thousands over the course of a year...

I pay 1.5 percent to the IPA, because it costs money to provide the service they do which happen to be PRICELESS.

look man, there are countless things you "pay away" for in your life for legal and fiscal protection and you probably don't even realize it. To not do so for your careers best interest is absolutely mind blowing to 95 percent of your fellow aviators. But, like I said, carry on - it's entertaining.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 03:10 PM
not "paying away" anything you fool.... basically buying protection and representation for my 10+ million dollar career.

Would you get a divorce without an attorney? Would you get an attorney if you were falsely accused of a crime? Why not just represent yourself? Do you drive uninsured? do you insure your house? Do you invest on whims and dumb luck? Or do you use advisors and/or professionally guided mutual funds? life insurance? Maybe you do none of that? You're just an expert at everything...

I "pay away" $100 a year to "belong" to Costco...why? Because it saves me thousands over the course of a year...

I pay 1.5 percent to the IPA, because it costs money to provide the service they do which happen to be PRICELESS.

look man, there are countless things you "pay away" for in your life for legal and fiscal protection and you probably don't even realize it. To not do so for your careers best interest is absolutely mind blowing to 95 percent of your fellow aviators. But, like I said, carry on - it's entertaining.

Wow, struck a nerve with a simple comment that was just that. Speaking of entertaining, that response my friend was just that. This going to be you after stepping away from your computer?
https://media.tenor.com/images/2448eebd8d3dc02df738e917cc7265ef/tenor.gif

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 03:10 PM
not "paying away" anything you fool.... basically buying protection and representation for my 10+ million dollar career.

Would you get a divorce without an attorney? Would you get an attorney if you were falsely accused of a crime? Why not just represent yourself? Do you drive uninsured? do you insure your house? Do you invest on whims and dumb luck? Or do you use advisors and/or professionally guided mutual funds? life insurance? Maybe you do none of that? You're just an expert at everything...

I "pay away" $100 a year to "belong" to Costco...why? Because it saves me thousands over the course of a year...

I pay 1.5 percent to the IPA, because it costs money to provide the service they do which happen to be PRICELESS.

look man, there are countless things you "pay away" for in your life for legal and fiscal protection and you probably don't even realize it. To not do so for your careers best interest is absolutely mind blowing to 95 percent of your fellow aviators. But, like I said, carry on - it's entertaining.

Best response in this thread.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 03:13 PM
Best response in this thread.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llr4fssU7F1qaalrko1_500.gif

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 03:20 PM
Considering the amount of stock I own in that company, union's are of a massive interest to me. So yes, I have a vested interest in everything that happens at the airline.


Do you know if DD or anyone else doesn't own a considerable amount of SKYW stock before making those comments or do you just assume they don't?

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 03:24 PM
Do you know if DD or anyone else doesn't own a considerable amount of SKYW stock before making those comments or do you just assume they don't?

I don't care if they do or not, because that is not what drives the union argument for them. If someone is going to argue that a union going on property at SkyWest is going to boost stock value, they are more clueless than I thought.

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 03:25 PM
Do you know if DD or anyone else doesn't own a considerable amount of SKYW stock before making those comments or do you just assume they don't?

I would hope people are more diversified in their portfolios. Putting a big allocation to a single airline stock is not the wisest move. If anything it would be best to hedge by buying puts on SKYW or be long another stock with a negative correlation.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 03:34 PM
I would hope people are more diversified in their portfolios. Putting a big allocation to a single airline stock is not the wisest move. If anything it would be best to hedge by buying puts on SKYW or be long another stock with a negative correlation.

Boy you would sure hope so, wouldn't you?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/ksbp.gif

DirkDiggler
06-14-2017, 03:52 PM
Boy you would sure hope so, wouldn't you?


No. I trade futures only. And if you were even more advanced you could also write out of the money naked calls and collect the premium. Buying options is for suckers, selling them to suckers is where the money is at.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 04:07 PM
No. I trade futures only. And if you were even more advanced you could also write out of the money naked calls and collect the premium. Buying options is for suckers, selling them to suckers is where the money is at.

High five for you man, great work!!! I think I am starting to love the thought of unions now!

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 05:05 PM
I don't care if they do or not, because that is not what drives the union argument for them. If someone is going to argue that a union going on property at SkyWest is going to boost stock value, they are more clueless than I thought.


You called him out for not being an employee and discussing union issues at Skywest. So I called you out for the same. Then you said you are an owner. So I said he (or other non-employees commenting on this Skywest union thread) may be an owners as well. In other words, you may be calling out people hypocritically.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 05:08 PM
You called him out for not being an employee and discussing union issues at Skywest. So I called you out for the same. Then you said you are an owner. So I said he (or other non-employees commenting on this Skywest union thread) may be an owners as well. In other words, you may be calling out people hypocritically.

Yea, I know what you said and I responded to it. And I explained why my opinions on the union vs non union was rooted in completely different reasons. Nothing hypocritical about it at all.

Nevjets
06-14-2017, 06:07 PM
Yea, I know what you said and I responded to it. And I explained why my opinions on the union vs non union was rooted in completely different reasons. Nothing hypocritical about it at all.


Do you pay this much attention to employee/management relations to all the other companies you owe stock in?

rickair7777
06-14-2017, 06:16 PM
No. I trade futures only. And if you were even more advanced you could also write out of the money naked calls and collect the premium. Buying options is for suckers, selling them to suckers is where the money is at.


This. Don't own stock in the company you work for, and might want to avoid the entire industry. If you think you can play options, well OK maybe but don't hang on to it for long.

rickair7777
06-14-2017, 06:19 PM
not "paying away" anything you fool.... basically buying protection and representation for my 10+ million dollar career.

Would you get a divorce without an attorney? Would you get an attorney if you were falsely accused of a crime? Why not just represent yourself? Do you drive uninsured? do you insure your house? Do you invest on whims and dumb luck? Or do you use advisors and/or professionally guided mutual funds? life insurance? Maybe you do none of that? You're just an expert at everything...

I "pay away" $100 a year to "belong" to Costco...why? Because it saves me thousands over the course of a year...

I pay 1.5 percent to the IPA, because it costs money to provide the service they do which happen to be PRICELESS.

look man, there are countless things you "pay away" for in your life for legal and fiscal protection and you probably don't even realize it. To not do so for your careers best interest is absolutely mind blowing to 95 percent of your fellow aviators. But, like I said, carry on - it's entertaining.

Absolutely it makes sense for YOU, cheap protection for your very lucrative career potential.

It's not quite as solid a business case at the regional level for a variety of reasons. Most of us could get a BETTER paying job if we gave up flying.

RJDio
06-14-2017, 06:25 PM
I'm not really sure who he is but I do know he's not the guy you think he is.

I'm starting to wonder. I don't remember Mike being this moronic and sensitive.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 06:28 PM
Do you pay this much attention to employee/management relations to all the other companies you owe stock in?

Absolutely.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 06:32 PM
I'm starting to wonder. I don't remember Mike being this moronic and sensitive.

And yet, you just cannot stop coming back to discuss and talk about me. Double thumbs up!

RJDio
06-14-2017, 06:36 PM
Absolutely it makes sense for YOU, cheap protection for your very lucrative career potential.

It's not quite as solid a business case at the regional level for a variety of reasons. Most of us could get a BETTER paying job if we gave up flying.

I think it's been established that getting block or better would pay for the 1.95%, let alone eliminating the BHO, line cap values (which leads to premium pay), better vacation and sick accrual, commuter parking and/or hotels.

It really seems to come down to the fact that most lifers don't want a union and are happy with the status quo. And the new guys don't want to spend the energy and effort it would take to take on the company's anti union campaign.

word302
06-14-2017, 07:07 PM
I'm starting to wonder. I don't remember Mike being this moronic and sensitive.

Unless he was posting during TO when I flew with him last year, it ain't him.

RJDio
06-14-2017, 07:29 PM
Unless he was posting during TO when I flew with him last year, it ain't him.

Thanks but I think MF can defend himself.

word302
06-14-2017, 07:39 PM
Thanks but I think MF can defend himself.

Oh I think they're both giant tool bags, just not the same tool bag.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 07:52 PM
Oh I think they're both giant tool bags, just not the same tool bag.
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder791/500x/61815791/see-nobody-cares-look-everyone-a-first-officer-see-nobody-cares.jpg

word302
06-14-2017, 07:58 PM
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder791/500x/61815791/see-nobody-cares-look-everyone-a-first-officer-see-nobody-cares.jpg

Rest my case.

Mercyful Fate
06-14-2017, 08:13 PM
Rest my case.

Oh no, you won't rest your case. Game on

Nevjets
06-15-2017, 08:11 AM
Absolutely.


So all your posts here are strictly in the interests of your stock in SKYW? And you you do the same for the other companies' stock you own?
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

You sure do spend a lot of your time, just here, defending your company management considering you are so sure their pilots don't want a union.

Skyhawk121
06-15-2017, 09:17 AM
considering you are so sure their pilots don't want a union.

At least his opinion reflects the opinion of those of us who have commented on this thread that actually work for SkyWest Airlines.

DirkDiggler
06-15-2017, 09:22 AM
So all your posts here are strictly in the interests of your stock in SKYW? And you you do the same for the other companies' stock you own?

You sure do spend a lot of your time, just here, defending your company management considering you are so sure their pilots don't want a union.

Maybe this guy isn't even a pilot. Could be former VP of custodial arts at Skywest and has some restricted shares he can't get rid of. Either way, for one voting in a union doesn't usually have a major impact on share price unless there is pilot unrest (look at historical data from other unionized carriers). And two, it better be a seven figure position we're talking about to warrant this level of concern with all the spewing of anti-union rhetoric from his face hole.

deadseal
06-15-2017, 10:02 AM
Even the anti union Skywest guys who read all that crap have to admit it was ridiculously childish. It literally seems like a 12 year old kid is sitting at his keyboard. Maybe the dude is at summer camp now and we can have an adult conversation.

I'm interested in the conflict of interest bit. Is it worse to have regional alpa? (Which could be mitigated by an in house union), or have Sapa which is paid by management.

I believe sapa is a textbook definition of conflict of interest.

Not that this is exactly the same, but the flight attendants at my current airline get bent over pretty regularly on re routes because they don't have a union. They have no work rule protection, and yet they won't unionize because there is a big counter union campaign constantly being pushed. It's not a good or bad thing as I respect and understand the company's goal of maximizing profits, it's just interesting.

Nevjets
06-15-2017, 10:32 AM
At least his opinion reflects the opinion of those of us who have commented on this thread that actually work for SkyWest Airlines.



My jab at him in that comment is aimed at his time spent on all these Skywest threads considering he allegedly just owns SKYW stock. And the fact that he absolutely does the same for all the other company stocks he owns.

Also, don't dismiss the two ex-Skywest pilots who have also commented and given their opinion now that they have worked at both a non-union and union airline.

Mercyful Fate
06-15-2017, 04:17 PM
So all your posts here are strictly in the interests of your stock in SKYW? And you you do the same for the other companies' stock you own?
http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

You sure do spend a lot of your time, just here, defending your company management considering you are so sure their pilots don't want a union.

Actually, majority of the reason I spend time and post here, is because of people like yourself. This is where the action is...Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum and focus on your own career. Its interesting to watch certain people turn into rabid dogs when anyone dare question union stuff. I don't come here to convince SkyWest pilots to avoid a union, I come here to watch everyone that doesn't work for SkyWest.

Mercyful Fate
06-15-2017, 04:23 PM
Maybe this guy isn't even a pilot. Could be former VP of custodial arts at Skywest and has some restricted shares he can't get rid of. Either way, for one voting in a union doesn't usually have a major impact on share price unless there is pilot unrest (look at historical data from other unionized carriers). And two, it better be a seven figure position we're talking about to warrant this level of concern with all the spewing of anti-union rhetoric from his face hole.

Man, you sure take this union stuff personal, don't ya big fella? I imagine this is you after a few minutes of reading my posts...

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/151/629/15c.gif

deadseal
06-15-2017, 06:48 PM
..Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum
Aaaaannndddd and the kiddie is back, lol

Mercyful Fate
06-15-2017, 06:56 PM
Aaaaannndddd and the kiddie is back, lol

How come you used and twice? You have a stuttering problem?

deadseal
06-15-2017, 07:02 PM
..Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum
Aannnddddd and he's still here
Lol

Mercyful Fate
06-15-2017, 07:12 PM
Aannnddddd and he's still here
Lol

Lay off the wine coolers.

deadseal
06-15-2017, 07:17 PM
..Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum
Annnnddd and the little tyke is still here
Lol

Nevjets
06-16-2017, 09:09 AM
Actually, majority of the reason I spend time and post here, is because of people like yourself. This is where the action is...Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum and focus on your own career. Its interesting to watch certain people turn into rabid dogs when anyone dare question union stuff. I don't come here to convince SkyWest pilots to avoid a union, I come here to watch everyone that doesn't work for SkyWest.


Focus on my own career? This concerns my career right now. Not Skywest per se but the airline industry. You are the one who is just a stock holder and incessantly posting on regional airline boards!

Paid2fly
06-16-2017, 01:26 PM
At least his opinion reflects the opinion of those of us who have commented on this thread that actually work for SkyWest Airlines.









No, it doesn't!:rolleyes:

Mercyful Fate
06-16-2017, 05:24 PM
Focus on my own career? This concerns my career right now. Not Skywest per se but the airline industry. You are the one who is just a stock holder and incessantly posting on regional airline boards!

No, SkyWest is a major thorn in your side, so don't try to say otherwise. This has nothing to do with "the airline industry", SkyWest ****es you off. Bad. Anti union folks **** you off. Bad. Enough that you will use foul language and name calling to the point of getting banned. So, don't tell me you hanging around here is "having an interest in the airline industry".

deadseal
06-16-2017, 06:02 PM
..Guys like you cannot just walk away from this forum
Hey look, the little whipper snapper is back

Duesenflieger
06-16-2017, 06:41 PM
This thread quickly deteriorated into a pile of dung.