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View Full Version : Military Flight Hour Conversions


DROCK
06-06-2017, 01:29 PM
I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around converting our military flight time to FAA standards for ATP. I've read the FARs, but I'm not a lawyer and the other military guys in my unit don't know either, and

Please tell me if I'm correct on this:

Aircraft Commander = PIC

1st Pilot = PIC since your manipulating controls and acting as PIC in a dual piloted aircraft.

2nd Pilot = Only good for total time

PIC as student = Solo or 1st pilot time if in dual piloted AC
2nd Pilot as Student = adds to total time

Thanks for the comments.


C130driver
06-06-2017, 03:13 PM
Careful, each airline has their own rules on what constitutes PIC/SIC etc and that doesn't really match up with FAA definitions.

I'm assuming you are Navy/USMC? Basic rules for most applications is

-If the aircraft requires more than one pilot and you are not the A code : SIC for time in the seat (2nd pilot in Navy speak)?

-If you signed for the jet, all time is PIC (some airlines won't let you use other time so be careful there)

-most airlines allow the use of IP/EP time as PIC

I found this guy's explanations to be gold when converting my logbook:
http://www.aviationbull.com/2015/oct/19/military-pilot-logbook-conversion



-student/UPT time with an instructor (T-6/T-34/Cessna is dual...solo is PIC

Sliceback
06-06-2017, 04:38 PM
Student time is *NOT* PIC unless you're solo. It's dual/student if you're with an IP.


DROCK
06-06-2017, 05:52 PM
Careful, each airline has their own rules on what constitutes PIC/SIC etc and that doesn't really match up with FAA definitions.

I'm assuming you are Navy/USMC? Basic rules for most applications is

-If the aircraft requires more than one pilot and you are not the A code : SIC for time in the seat (2nd pilot in Navy speak)?

-If you signed for the jet, all time is PIC (some airlines won't let you use other time so be careful there)

-most airlines allow the use of IP/EP time as PIC

I found this guy's explanations to be gold when converting my logbook:
Military Pilot Logbook Conversion | AviationBull (http://www.aviationbull.com/2015/oct/19/military-pilot-logbook-conversion)



-student/UPT time with an instructor (T-6/T-34/Cessna is dual...solo is PIC
Yep, I'm Navy. Thanks for the Link.

DROCK
06-06-2017, 05:54 PM
Student time is *NOT* PIC unless you're solo. It's dual/student if you're with an IP.
I agree, but I think the FARs state if you are in a dual pilot ac and you are student that has soloed you can log PIC if you are acting as PIC and the sole manipulator of the controls (1st Pilot).

155mm
06-06-2017, 06:25 PM
I agree, but I think the FARs state if you are in a dual pilot ac and you are student that has soloed you can log PIC if you are acting as PIC and the sole manipulator of the controls (1st Pilot).

Did you hold an FAA certificate at the time in question?

rickair7777
06-06-2017, 06:27 PM
I agree, but I think the FARs state if you are in a dual pilot ac and you are student that has soloed you can log PIC if you are acting as PIC and the sole manipulator of the controls (1st Pilot).

There is no 1st Pilot in the FARs.


YES, you can log PIC as sole manipulator under 61.159. But this time is not really counted as PIC by most employers, so I would *strongly* recommend that if you do log it, keep it in a separate column so you can easily break it out later when you're filling out applications, and so interviewers don't get confused.

I think this sort of "sort-of-PIC" might be applicable if you apply for a job with the FAA?

Sliceback
06-06-2017, 06:42 PM
Interviewers won't get confused listening to the reasoning. Internally the interview will be at risk.

Stick to what the airlines want to see. They expect the 1.1 definition of PIC and not the 91.65(??) definition. They don't care who's flying, they want to know who's in command.

The link a couple of posts ago, detailing how to log military time for a civilian job, nails it.

Adlerdriver
06-06-2017, 09:21 PM
All good advice, but it sounds like the OP is talking about converting time for his ATP. That's based on FARs. Airline apps are a totally different animal and completely unrelated to logging time to meet ATP requirements while obtained that rating.

DROCK
06-06-2017, 11:13 PM
All good advice, but it sounds like the OP is talking about converting time for his ATP. That's based on FARs. Airline apps are a totally different animal and completely unrelated to logging time to meet ATP requirements while obtained that rating.
You are correct. I'm concerned about the 250 PIC time in an airplane to qualify for ATP. I have all requirements met except 250 PIC in airplane since I've mostly flown helicopters.

Flyaf05
06-07-2017, 07:29 AM
You are correct. I'm concerned about the 250 PIC time in an airplane to qualify for ATP. I have all requirements met except 250 PIC in airplane since I've mostly flown helicopters.

Here is the link to the Sheppard Air's ATP guide for filling out the paperwork. http://www.sheppardair.com/download/fillin8710-1.pdf

If you're not an aircraft commander yet then just count all your primary time (1st pilot) assuming the aircraft requires 2 pilots and solo time to meet the PIC requirement. This is how the FAA looks at it for licensing purposes but not the airlines.

I know plenty of copilots who have got their ATPs this way with no issues. Hope that helps.

TroutBum
06-07-2017, 07:44 AM
Here is the link to the Sheppard Air's ATP guide for filling out the paperwork. http://www.sheppardair.com/download/fillin8710-1.pdf

If you're not an aircraft commander yet then just count all your primary time (1st pilot) assuming the aircraft requires 2 pilots and solo time to meet the PIC requirement. This is how the FAA looks at it for licensing purposes but not the airlines.

I know plenty of copilots who have got their ATPs this way with no issues. Hope that helps.

That's my understanding too. And the link you provided has a good suggestion for calculating cross country time. Unless you jumped into the bounce pattern at your home field, chances are it counts as a cross country flight.



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