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View Full Version : Fainting...


Fishbed64
06-12-2017, 10:02 AM
I am 52. I was on Initial SIM training. It was third week of training and just 3 days before my check ride... I've got two episodes of fainting... First time it happened in the morning in my hotel room. I did not tell anybody. I just thought it was dehydration cause (I am still thinking this way). Second time it happened in same day afternoon in class room. I could not be able hide it (somebody call emergency) and spent night in ER where I've got bunch of tests. They did not find anything. And my company sent me home to take care of myself. Now I am doing bunch of tests including "stress" and "echo"... If I understood correctly - I lost my medical (I hope temporarily) and have to report my AME? My questions are: Who is making final decision about my medical condition? What would be my further steps to "clean me up" ASAP? What are common mistakes I should avoid on this procedure?


pilot0987
06-12-2017, 11:48 AM
U need to contact the aopa immediately and get urself feeling better first. The job can wait

Fishbed64
06-12-2017, 02:12 PM
Thanks man. I understand that job can wait. Just do not want to waist a time. I believe there is nothing wrong with me... Need to come back as soon as I can because somebody needs to pay bills... And why do I need to contact AOPA?


Bwatz
06-12-2017, 02:27 PM
Do you work for an ALPA carrier? If so, you have their aeromedical services.

Fishbed64
06-12-2017, 03:09 PM
It is Part 135 charter, no ALPA... But company said, they would wait for me coming back

Typhoonpilot
06-12-2017, 03:32 PM
In the last country I worked something like that would automatically be one year off. Sounds a little extreme, but think about it. If you pass out for no known reason who's to say it won't happen six months from now when you are flying with passengers. The above advice about contacting professionals who deal with pilots getting their medicals back must be followed in your case. You must be extremely careful in any wording you use with medical professionals and the FAA. There are many organization that specialize in this. AOPA medical is one of them. One that comes highly recommended is:

AMAS (https://www.aviationmedicine.com/)

Good luck

Fishbed64
06-12-2017, 03:43 PM
Thank you for your advice!

Starscream
06-12-2017, 04:37 PM
Having gone through a long wait for a Medical myself, a few thoughts on the matter....

As long as you have the little white piece of paper, you still have your Medical. You haven't lost it. That said, FARs prohibit flying with a known Medical deficiency.

I would NOT volunteer anything to the FAA or even an AME (other than the exception below). Do not apply for a new Medical until you've got a gameplane in place with either a vendor like AMAS or a 'difficult case' AME. You'll have to report this on your next exam, and you'll want your I's dotted and T's crossed when you apply. Do NOT apply for a Medical without consulting AMAS or someone similar. Likewise, since you have to report all visits to health professionals there's going to be no sweeping this event under the rug obviously).

I'm inclined to think your Doctors are going to have to come up with an explanation for the fainting. Hopefully it was, in fact, dehydration and not something more serious. In any event, the FAA is not quick to grant Medicals if someone has had unexplained fainting spells. If an underlying cause can be determined there is hope that this won't be too bad.

Dr. Bruce Chien is a 'difficult case' AME based in Peoria, IL. I'd say AMAS is great if you're dealing with kidney stones or Chrone's disease, but for something more critical like brain/heart or anything involving unconsciousness/fainting I'd go with a difficult case AME like Chien. Those are harder to get certfified, and Dr. Chien is extremely meticulous. He'll discuss your situation for free, and doesn't start charging until he starts reviewing medical records.

Fishbed64
06-12-2017, 05:34 PM
Thanks a lot. It is very helpfull. Another words, after I finish all tests with my Primary doc and Cardiologist (My Primary doc already said that it was dehydration, and I expect the same from Cardio guy) I should not go to my AME, but I need to go first to AMAS or difficult case AME?

Starscream
06-12-2017, 09:03 PM
The FAA has a very strict set of requirements for what Medical records they will need to review before consideration. A professional service like AMAS or difficult case AME will know what, exactly, the FAA will need to see. Regular AMEs usually do not have this level of knowledge, believe it or not. Most just know whether or not they can certify on the spot or whether they have to defer your application to OKC.

If applying through an AME, once deferred, you're essentially on your own with regards to your AME. AMAS or a 'difficult case' AME will continue to be your advocate even after the application is deferred and records are sent to the FAA. They will continue to correspond with the FAA on your behalf.

If you send the FAA anything that's short of what they will need to see to make a determination on your case, it's really going to drag things out. Everytime you send them information, if takes them 4-6 weeks just to respond to. You don't want to trade letters with them.

Finally, one of the most important things to know isn't what to send the FAA, it's what not to send. Namely, anything they didn't specifically ask for that could have damaging information. That's really where a difficult case AME is invaluable. They are experts at presenting the best case possible to the FAA. Think of them as top notch defense attorneys. They're not miracle workers who can get any medically unsafe individual certified, rather they are your best hope if there is any chance at certficiation.

Fishbed64
06-13-2017, 04:47 AM
The FAA has a very strict set of requirements for what Medical records they will need to review before consideration. A professional service like AMAS or difficult case AME will know what, exactly, the FAA will need to see. Regular AMEs usually do not have this level of knowledge, believe it or not. Most just know whether or not they can certify on the spot or whether they have to defer your application to OKC.

If applying through an AME, once deferred, you're essentially on your own with regards to your AME. AMAS or a 'difficult case' AME will continue to be your advocate even after the application is deferred and records are sent to the FAA. They will continue to correspond with the FAA on your behalf.

If you send the FAA anything that's short of what they will need to see to make a determination on your case, it's really going to drag things out. Everytime you send them information, if takes them 4-6 weeks just to respond to. You don't want to trade letters with them.

Finally, one of the most important things to know isn't what to send the FAA, it's what not to send. Namely, anything they didn't specifically ask for that could have damaging information. That's really where a difficult case AME is invaluable. They are experts at presenting the best case possible to the FAA. Think of them as top notch defense attorneys. They're not miracle workers who can get any medically unsafe individual certified, rather they are your best hope if there is any chance at certficiation.

Thank you, Sir for your instructions. This is sounds like a plan for me.

Droopy
06-13-2017, 07:06 AM
You're getting good advice on the medical certificate side. Get professional help before you start your next application.

In the mean time, get this medical issue figured out. Not dying should take priority over your job. Hopefully it's something simple, but there are very simple things that can cause fainting that can be fatal if not diagnosed (like a pulmonary embolism.) There are ways back to a certificate for just about any corrected diagnosed condition. Lots of hoops to jump through, but definitely doable. It's issues where the FAA doesn't know why you are passing out that they have issues with.

Good luck!

rickair7777
06-13-2017, 09:25 AM
Good advice above regarding professional help. Don't fly, or talk to the FAA/AME until you get your situation in order.

In this sort of situation, the FAA is going to want to know the cause and the fix.

If the cause cannot be determined, they are going to want to wait and see if it happens again. I've heard of that being six months to three years.

If the cause was "likely" dehydration, they may still want to wait, not really sure how that would play out but if the records from your ER visit coroborate dehydration (tests indicated that, or you stated that at the time) I imagine that would help your case.

Fishbed64
06-13-2017, 09:26 AM
You're getting good advice on the medical certificate side. Get professional help before you start your next application.

In the mean time, get this medical issue figured out. Not dying should take priority over your job. Hopefully it's something simple, but there are very simple things that can cause fainting that can be fatal if not diagnosed (like a pulmonary embolism.) There are ways back to a certificate for just about any corrected diagnosed condition. Lots of hoops to jump through, but definitely doable. It's issues where the FAA doesn't know why you are passing out that they have issues with.

Good luck!

Thanks man for your advice! I am sure it is something simple like "dehydration"... I think it's just an age... Years ago I "drove up side down in formation, breathing dust from the cockpit floor" without any problem and then spent all night in a bar... Today I am fainting because dehydration... It is ridiculous...