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View Full Version : Questions for Current AW Pilots


lukeh99
06-19-2017, 11:38 AM
I have an interview next week and I'm really looking forward to it. I've heard nothing but good things about Air Wisconsin.

A few questions for people in the know:

1. Where is the movement coming from? From what I have read the new United aircraft are essentially just replacing old AA flying 1 for 1. Is the movement projected based on attrition or is there actual expansion happening?

2. How are the lines currently? I realize UAL flying will be a whole different animal, but what does a middle of the road line currently look like in terms of days off, hours, commutability, etc.

3. Are there any details available regarding the United Career Pathway program? Is there a commitment to a certain % per month, for example?

4. I'm a former 121 pilot with E145 SIC type but I have been out for a few years. Does the extra 8k bonus apply?


Thanks so much!


StrykerB21
06-19-2017, 01:03 PM
I have an interview next week and I'm really looking forward to it. I've heard nothing but good things about Air Wisconsin.

A few questions for people in the know:

1. Where is the movement coming from? From what I have read the new United aircraft are essentially just replacing old AA flying 1 for 1. Is the movement projected based on attrition or is there actual expansion happening?

2. How are the lines currently? I realize UAL flying will be a whole different animal, but what does a middle of the road line currently look like in terms of days off, hours, commutability, etc.

3. Are there any details available regarding the United Career Pathway program? Is there a commitment to a certain % per month, for example?

4. I'm a former 121 pilot with E145 SIC type but I have been out for a few years. Does the extra 8k bonus apply?


Thanks so much!

1. No word about expansion at this point. We currently have about 450 pilots on property so a lot of the movement will be simply rebuilding our seniority list in addition to natural attrition off the top.

2. The lines are typically 4 on 3 off with a lot in open time. Reserves have 12 days off minimum and are used every day. Because of our staffing situation reroutes extensions and junior assignments are pretty common. Prepare to fly a lot. In theory this should get better as more pilots come through IOE.

3. No word about the CPP at this point and I dont think well have any answers to that question until our United flying begins in the fall.

4. I dont know.

lukeh99
06-19-2017, 01:12 PM
Cool thanks. I appreciate it.


CaptureThis
06-19-2017, 01:19 PM
You said 121 time, with a E145 SIC type rating. Umm I am pretty sure if you were flying part 121 you can not have an SIC type rating and be legal, correct me if I am wrong, flying part 135 yes. Not to mention a 50 seat airplane can't be operated under 135 unless it only has 30 seats in it. I was just recently hired also with two SIC type ratings flying part 135. I was not eligible for the 8k because SIC type ratings do not count, (PIC only) the rest of the bonus is still pretty sweeeeet though......

BigZ
06-19-2017, 01:56 PM
Pretty sure a friend had an exact same SIC only on his certificate after a stint with ExpressJet few years back

flysooner9
06-20-2017, 05:14 AM
Prior to the ATP rule most regionals handed out SIC's.

BigWillyCapt
06-20-2017, 06:41 AM
Stryker is pretty accurate. The movement is based on our current staffing levels being below what we need to fully staff 65 aircraft. Our flying is down right now as we wind down the AA feed and prepare for the UAL spool up. Rumors abound about how much flying we will do for UAL, but as of right now it's only for 65 aircraft. You will find out, (if you didn't already know) management is notoriously tight lipped about specifics regarding the future.

Re:lines. Yes, 3 off 4 on is the norm for lineholders. 3 off 5 on for reserves. Typically reserves fly a lot although it fluctuates over time due to staffing. I would expect to fly a lot for the foreseeable future. Lines lately have been lower credit, 70-80 hours. With 14-18 days off. Again, due to the lower total block hours there are more sits during the day. Traditionally lines have been 80-100 hours with 12-15 days off. With some outliers.

Our CPP is rumored to be very similar to the other agreements out there and supposedly there is an announcement coming shortly.

lukeh99
06-20-2017, 07:50 AM
You said 121 time, with a E145 SIC type rating. Umm I am pretty sure if you were flying part 121 you can not have an SIC type rating and be legal, correct me if I am wrong, flying part 135 yes. Not to mention a 50 seat airplane can't be operated under 135 unless it only has 30 seats in it. I was just recently hired also with two SIC type ratings flying part 135. I was not eligible for the 8k because SIC type ratings do not count, (PIC only) the rest of the bonus is still pretty sweeeeet though......

It's an ATP with an EMB-145 SIC ONLY on the back. This is from 2013 so I'm assuming the rules have changed. Thanks for the info. on the bonus. Congrats on being hired!

lukeh99
06-20-2017, 07:52 AM
Stryker is pretty accurate. The movement is based on our current staffing levels being below what we need to fully staff 65 aircraft. Our flying is down right now as we wind down the AA feed and prepare for the UAL spool up. Rumors abound about how much flying we will do for UAL, but as of right now it's only for 65 aircraft. You will find out, (if you didn't already know) management is notoriously tight lipped about specifics regarding the future.

Re:lines. Yes, 3 off 4 on is the norm for lineholders. 3 off 5 on for reserves. Typically reserves fly a lot although it fluctuates over time due to staffing. I would expect to fly a lot for the foreseeable future. Lines lately have been lower credit, 70-80 hours. With 14-18 days off. Again, due to the lower total block hours there are more sits during the day. Traditionally lines have been 80-100 hours with 12-15 days off. With some outliers.

Our CPP is rumored to be very similar to the other agreements out there and supposedly there is an announcement coming shortly.

Thanks for the info. This all seems pretty much in line with my previous 121 job. Gotta love those long sits :D

schmohawk
06-20-2017, 08:28 AM
I'd rather be in the air but the sits aren't bad knowing that we are at least getting paid thanks to the 2:1 duty rig

Grumbletrousers
06-20-2017, 11:17 AM
I'd rather be in the air but the sits aren't bad knowing that we are at least getting paid thanks to the 2:1 duty rig

Bull****

We need to negotiate for better duty rigs to get rid of these inefficient lines and 3 hour sits.

Half of my days this month are hitting duty rig.

As it stands, if you're hitting duty rig on your trips, you're working for half-pay.

This wouldn't be a problem if lines were efficient like they were a couple years ago, but now you can't go anywhere without long sits.

Pay raises would be great in the next TA, but if we got better rigs you could be at home more often thanks to more commutable lines, or you would be paid appropriately for the work you put in.

WhistlePig
06-20-2017, 02:55 PM
Bull****

We need to negotiate for better duty rigs to get rid of these inefficient lines and 3 hour sits.

Half of my days this month are hitting duty rig.

As it stands, if you're hitting duty rig on your trips, you're working for half-pay.

This wouldn't be a problem if lines were efficient like they were a couple years ago, but now you can't go anywhere without long sits.

Pay raises would be great in the next TA, but if we got better rigs you could be at home more often thanks to more commutable lines, or you would be paid appropriately for the work you put in.

This......

schmohawk
06-20-2017, 06:28 PM
True those things are better , I should have said the sits are better getting paid than not; not optimal. The company is will build the lines they want. Better than not getting paid for your airport appreciation time ..... I guess the grass is always greener

lukeh99
06-20-2017, 07:48 PM
I'd rather be in the air but the sits aren't bad knowing that we are at least getting paid thanks to the 2:1 duty rig

That helps for sure!

Graybird
06-22-2017, 05:06 PM
You said 121 time, with a E145 SIC type rating. Umm I am pretty sure if you were flying part 121 you can not have an SIC type rating and be legal, correct me if I am wrong, flying part 135 yes. Not to mention a 50 seat airplane can't be operated under 135 unless it only has 30 seats in it. I was just recently hired also with two SIC type ratings flying part 135. I was not eligible for the 8k because SIC type ratings do not count, (PIC only) the rest of the bonus is still pretty sweeeeet though......

You said 121 time, with a E145 SIC type rating. Umm I am pretty sure if you were flying part 121 you can not have an SIC type rating and be legal, correct me if I am wrong, flying part 135 yes. Not to mention a 50 seat airplane can't be operated under 135 unless it only has 30 seats in it. I was just recently hired also with two SIC type ratings flying part 135. I was not eligible for the 8k because SIC type ratings do not count, (PIC only) the rest of the bonus is still pretty sweeeeet though......

You can fly 121 as an FO with out a type rating domestically but not in international airspace i.e. iCAO regions.

The SIC type is a bull **** worthless use of ink on paper.
A SIC type came about as away for the FAA to satifisy ICAO Reg's several years ago 2005 to be exact. To prove that FO's where trained.
This was only nesscary on international flights where ICAO Reg's were in place.
Example a Falcon 2000 crew the Captain with a "real type rating" DA2000 and a First Officer with training only and no endorsement indicating type specific training on her/his pilot certificate could fly the DA2000 anywhere in the world with no issues. FO did not require a Type rating. Some time in 2004 ICAO said only crews with type specific training could operate in international airspace.
The FAA had no provisions for this so they created the Bull **** Type and called it the SIC type. It was a band aid to allow operators to continue to fly in International Air space. That is why the SIC type exist.
It has nothing to do with CFR 49. 121. Operations. A 121 air carrier operating domestically does not require the FO to be typed.
I know because I flew B727's,F27's,Convair 580's DC-9's as a FO with out a typerating.
I will say that the real leagacy air carriers for years have checked and issued type rating to FO's because the training and checking are the same. The Bull **** Scumbag regionals and commuter airlines would not issue a Type because they were afraid you would use it to go to another operator. The regionals now use the Full/ real type as a dangling carrot to lure you to come to them even if they operate domestically.
This is why Air Wis only pays 8k for a real Type on the sign on bonus.
And I back them up on this.
The SIC is worthless

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2005/08/04/05-15376/second-in-command-pilot-type-rating

CaptureThis
06-23-2017, 12:56 PM
Yes I am aware of the SIC type for ICAO reasons under 135 I used to go international and was aware of the rule. It is a absolute BS rating however I do not think it makes you any less of a pilot compared to the PIC type rating in the same type aircraft. It may be a littler easier check ride, also a solid way for a company to save money on training and to see if your worth spending the money on a type rating. I just did not know the same rules applied in the 121 world. Everyday you learn something new.

Graybird
06-23-2017, 01:05 PM
Yes I am aware of the SIC type for ICAO reasons under 135 I used to go international and was aware of the rule. It is a absolute BS rating however I do not think it makes you any less of a pilot compared to the PIC type rating in the same type aircraft. It may be a littler easier check ride, also a solid way for a company to save money on training and to see if your worth spending the money on a type rating. I just did not know the same rules applied in the 121 world. Everyday you learn something new.

As a former Examiner for the ATP and the Type rating on Jets the check ride depending on the operators ops specs are pretty much the same.
I agree the company should type an FO as the cost are minimal.
The only reason they don't is to use the type check as a carrot to get the FO to stick around, if they did Type the FO the FO may leave the company for so called greener pastures.

newto121
08-13-2017, 06:30 PM
I have an interview coming up with Air Wisconsin, I have a few questions for any AWAC pilots on property:

Is it possible to group blocks of days off longer than 3 days if I volunteer for reserve or junior manning during the rest of the month? I will be commuting from the Southwest for a while and longer stretches off preceded or followed by longer stretches working is more feasible for me. Any info on this is greatly appreciated.

pitchtrim
08-13-2017, 07:49 PM
I have an interview coming up with Air Wisconsin, I have a few questions for any AWAC pilots on property:

Is it possible to group blocks of days off longer than 3 days if I volunteer for reserve or junior manning during the rest of the month? I will be commuting from the Southwest for a while and longer stretches off preceded or followed by longer stretches working is more feasible for me. Any info on this is greatly appreciated.

Big bag of nopes on that one. Once you get a line you "might" get lucky and get some swaps approved to get time off, but realistically you need some seniority to get long stretches of time off. Easiest way when you're semi junior is bidding integration days off (end of one month and beginning of next month). When I was a fairly junior fo line holder I'd get 4-5 off consistently that way. You'll get shafted with carry in days for awhile. Or do what most everyone else does when they get burned out with not enough time off and call out sick.



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