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sargeanb
06-24-2017, 08:57 AM
Hello all,

I'm currently a 10 year regional capt. I live 10 miles from CVG, I've been making the long drive to my base in CMH for years, and it's beginning to get old. I'm becoming interested in Allegiant. A few questions for you all.

1. Is CVG a solid base? Do you see it closing anytime soon? (Tough question in this business, I know:)

2. Are many assigned CVG right out of training?

3. What is take-home pay first year typically, including per-diem, etc.?

4. What is the general consensus on job security there? Are most ready to jump ship at a moments notice, or is Allegiant a good place to throw anchor?

That's about it. My worst fear is starting there and then having the base close and being forced to move or commute. I'm just trying to make an informed decision if/when I leave my current employer.


ecam
06-24-2017, 09:54 AM
Hello all,

I'm currently a 10 year regional capt. I live 10 miles from CVG, I've been making the long drive to my base in CMH for years, and it's beginning to get old. I'm becoming interested in Allegiant. A few questions for you all.

1. Is CVG a solid base? Do you see it closing anytime soon? (Tough question in this business, I know:)

2. Are many assigned CVG right out of training?

3. What is take-home pay first year typically, including per-diem, etc.?

4. What is the general consensus on job security there? Are most ready to jump ship at a moments notice, or is Allegiant a good place to throw anchor?

That's about it. My worst fear is starting there and then having the base close and being forced to move or commute. I'm just trying to make an informed decision if/when I leave my current employer.

1. CVG is solid, and will probably grow. Nothing is certain in this industry, but it's a very good bet.

2. CVG is somewhat senior for both FOs and CAs. One of those places where people already live, and once they get the award, they stay. Plan on being assigned LAX, PGD, FLL, or OAK as a new hire on the Bus or LAS and SFB on the 80. Our bidding is 6 months out (in other words, 6 months from award to effective date), so plan on commuting and crash pad for at least that long. CVG as a new hire is rare but not unheard of. VBD is an option many commuters choose until they can get the base they want, but it's shrinking and hasn't been offered in a while.

3. All told, first year will probably be $60-$75K depending on how long you take in training, and how much you fly. Anything picked up on off days pays above guarantee, and once you cross 81 hours "PCH" (our term for pay credit), everything above it pays at 130%. So there are opportunities to make money, but you will still take a first year hit from CA pay at most regionals.

4. Most people are happy here, and plan to make a career of it. Those who are unhappy are vocal, but usually move on pretty quickly. Research our business model. We're unlike any other airline. It's not for everyone, but for many, it's a dream flying job. It's definitely better than any regional out there, and if you hate it, apply to the big 3 from here.

labbats
06-24-2017, 10:13 AM
If you are a ten year captain the experience you bring will be a great advantage. However make certain you are ready to learn a new airplane by drinking from the fire hose.

Unfortunately being a ten year captain will make that a real concern as most study year after year just enough to brush up and are unprepared for new systems, callouts and procedures.

Either way you choose I wish you the best.


ecam
06-24-2017, 10:40 AM
If you are a ten year captain the experience you bring will be a great advantage. However make certain you are ready to learn a new airplane by drinking from the fire hose.

Unfortunately being a ten year captain will make that a real concern as most study year after year just enough to brush up and are unprepared for new systems, callouts and procedures.

Either way you choose I wish you the best.

To build on that, everyone considering coming here should be aware that our training department is different than most regionals where they spoon feed it to you. They do not do that here. You will be required to be self motivating and self learning, especially since most of it is online. You're basically old to read the manuals and do the exercises, exam is next Friday. No class lectures. In SIT and SIM activities, there's more checking done than teaching. The first few SITs, you will feel like you don't even understand what you're supposed to be studying. Some of the non-seniority list contract instructors (retired legacy pilots) act like it's the 1960s. Our APDs are notorious for 4hr orals where you get the kitchen sink; you're expected to know EVERYTHING. The gouge is out there, and you'll be told where to find it. Actual check rides are industry standard type rides or pro checks. We don't have AQP yet. So know going in, they expect you to put out the effort and prove you want to be here. I won't say it's hazing, but that's what it feels like. Cooperate and graduate. Once you get on the line it's a whole different airline, almost everyone is laid back and fun to fly with. I've yet to fly with someone who didn't have skills.

skydisaster
06-24-2017, 04:33 PM
3. All told, first year will probably be $60-$75K depending on how long you take in training, and how much you fly.


Everything in this thread is good info except for this. There is not much way that you are making $60-75k your first year here. You will be in the training pipeline for 4 months making min guarantee. The next 2-3 months, you will be on a composite schedule while you are trying to get to 100 hours. So plan on min guarantee for 6 months. Even if you flew 95 hours a month for the next 6 months, that would only come out to about $55k for the first year. You would have to chase Open Time and VFNs all over the country to make $75k. Even if you include Per Diem (it is not salary, so please quit calling it that), you are only talking about another couple thousand. To make $75k you would have to be VBD based (again including per Diem) and that is not going junior on the Bus. So, there may be some circumstances where you could make more, I would certainly plan on making min guarantee your first year hear.



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ysslah
06-25-2017, 02:43 PM
If you are a ten year captain the experience you bring will be a great advantage. However make certain you are ready to learn a new airplane by drinking from the fire hose.


Firehose that frequently jams and or feeds you substandard quality water

CAirBear
06-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Firehose that frequently jams and or feeds you substandard quality water

😂😂😂 Omg! That is absolutely hilarious. A ton of truth to this statement. Well played lol

dutch rudder
06-26-2017, 06:21 AM
The hard part is over, you already live near a base! I came here pre contract with a stepping-stone mentality. Unless our business model changes dramatically (ie, majority overnights), I can say with confidence I tossed my anchor. I think the majority of our pilot group can’t imagine returning to the old lifestyle. Give it a shot, it won’t hurt your career to do so… and you may toss your anchor in the process.

While it may have been “fire hose” style, the training was more than adequate in my opinion… borderline excessive in areas. Several good people in the training department that care about the future, and a few bad apples. I have heard some horror stories but they all took place 4+ years ago. Just be prepared to study harder than you have in the last 10 years.

sargeanb
06-26-2017, 10:20 AM
Thanks for the info, all. It's a tough decision to make. Sounds like a pretty rough first year with commuting, crash pads, and a pay cut to just over half what I'm making now. However, all that is par for the course if I went to any legacy, minus the pay cut. But the potential pay under the new contract, a 10-minute drive to work and the ability to be home every night sounds pretty nice. I write this as I'm on day 6 on the road.

As far as the training difficulties, when I started here at good old Chautauqua it was still very much a firehose/build the airplane training mentality, enforced by a bunch of turboprop guys that started here in the 70s and 80s, so I think I'd be ready for that...with alot of studying. I'm about 50/50 on applying or not, but I'm starting to lean towards going for it. Thanks again.

KC135
06-26-2017, 11:03 AM
If you think about the pay cut as an investment there really isn't a better way to get such a great return on your money. It's not that hard to make over 10k a month as a year 2 FO or 250k-300k yr as a mid to senior CA. The premium pay really helps out with that. I wouldn't recommend commuting, you will sabotage the best gig in the industry.

tailendcharlie
06-26-2017, 11:51 AM
OP, don't stress about training......as a regional CA you presumably by now get the airline game & have figured out what works for you. It should work here as well. Speaking from long experience incl. 3 complete A320 initials at 3 different airlines - this one's about the same as the rest.

Machaca
06-26-2017, 03:39 PM
OP, don't stress about training......as a regional CA you presumably by now get the airline game & have figured out what works for you. It should work here as well. Speaking from long experience incl. 3 complete A320 initials at 3 different airlines - this one's about the same as the rest.

Really...tell that to the multiple people who have either washed out of CA training and/or transition and are sucking it up back on the -80. Be prepared that our training department is substandard with the exception of most of the sim instructors/APDs (who really are the unsung heroes getting people through). The company wants to min cost training and have no problems cutting corners to do it (ground school BLOWS)...


That being said...this really is a good job, minus the management issues...

tailendcharlie
06-26-2017, 03:52 PM
Really...tell that to the multiple people who have either washed out of CA training and/or transition and are sucking it up back on the -80. Be prepared that our training department is substandard with the exception of most of the sim instructors/APDs (who really are the unsung heroes getting people through). The company wants to min cost training and have no problems cutting corners to do it (ground school BLOWS)...


That being said...this really is a good job, minus the management issues...

Sorry that wasn't my experience nor that of many others I know.....not like I'm Joe Ace Pilot or anything.

grnclvrs
06-27-2017, 06:46 AM
Really...tell that to the multiple people who have either washed out of CA training and/or transition and are sucking it up back on the -80.


If you arrive to training thinking you are Chuck Yeager transitioning to an airplane that does everything for you, you will not be happy. Plan to give up a month of your life knuckling down and hitting the books. Pay close attention during FMS training and you'll do great.

Beretta01
06-27-2017, 06:57 AM
If you arrive to training thinking you are Chuck Yeager transitioning to an airplane that does everything for you, you will not be happy. Plan to give up a month of your life knuckling down and hitting the books. Pay close attention during FMS training and you'll do great.

Agreed; everyone does fine in the end though....at least from what I've heard. I wish the systems portion of the FCOM flowed a little better. When I went through, reading the old ASM cover to cover usually did the trick.

ecam
06-27-2017, 07:42 AM
Everything in this thread is good info except for this. There is not much way that you are making $60-75k your first year here. You will be in the training pipeline for 4 months making min guarantee. The next 2-3 months, you will be on a composite schedule while you are trying to get to 100 hours. So plan on min guarantee for 6 months. Even if you flew 95 hours a month for the next 6 months, that would only come out to about $55k for the first year. You would have to chase Open Time and VFNs all over the country to make $75k. Even if you include Per Diem (it is not salary, so please quit calling it that), you are only talking about another couple thousand. To make $75k you would have to be VBD based (again including per Diem) and that is not going junior on the Bus. So, there may be some circumstances where you could make more, I would certainly plan on making min guarantee your first year hear.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My estimate might have been overstated, since I never did it under this contract, but first year pilots on VBD are making that from what I understand. Non VBD pilots are probably making less.

ecam
06-27-2017, 07:48 AM
I'm about 50/50 on applying or not, but I'm starting to lean towards going for it. Thanks again.

50/50 toward applying? Huh? You don't have a decision to make until you're offered a job. There's never a penalty for applying! Throw your hat in the ring and see what happens. Allegiant has good days and really bad days, but every day is better than any regional out there, and the possibility to make $200K+ and be home every night can't be had at any airline.

N1sync
06-27-2017, 08:09 AM
Really...tell that to the multiple people who have either washed out of CA training and/or transition and are sucking it up back on the -80. Be prepared that our training department is substandard with the exception of most of the sim instructors/APDs (who really are the unsung heroes getting people through). The company wants to min cost training and have no problems cutting corners to do it (ground school BLOWS)...


That being said...this really is a good job, minus the management issues...

The people who are washing out really deserve it and should probably not have a job here at all. However, there's plenty that should not work here and definitely should have failed but somehow make it through, usually because the guy making the call feels bad. #smallairlineproblems.

Anyhow, if you're a new FO enjoy flying with captains who've had multiple failures (during upgrade) and 60-100hours of upgrade OE but yet still have a demigod complex. You'll recognize them almost immediately.

Captains often get stuck flying with new FO's with similar issues, there's a good number of guys with 10 plus years at the regional that just DON'T KNOW how to fly. I'm not exaggerating. If you come here please put forth the same effort that the rest of us do. Leave your ego at the regional and forget how important you might've been over there. Come with an open mind and be ready to assimilate into our culture.

And if you're reading this thinking that I might be talking about you the answer is yes.

skydisaster
06-27-2017, 09:18 AM
My estimate might have been overstated, since I never did it under this contract, but first year pilots on VBD are making that from what I understand. Non VBD pilots are probably making less.



Fair enough, but you can't plan on VBD as a new hire either. The Bus VBD list is shrinking and the most junior pilot on it has been here 9 months. He was also the most junior pilot on it 6 months ago. You might could hold MD80 VBD as a new hire, but that's no guarantee. My point is as a new hire, I would plan on making Guarantee. If you get lucky and make more then great, but don't plan on good money until year two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JustWatching
06-27-2017, 09:34 AM
Really...tell that to the multiple people who have either washed out of CA training and/or transition and are sucking it up back on the -80. Be prepared that our training department is substandard with the exception of most of the sim instructors/APDs (who really are the unsung heroes getting people through). The company wants to min cost training and have no problems cutting corners to do it (ground school BLOWS)...


That being said...this really is a good job, minus the management issues...

How about taking some personal responsibility here buddy? Effort in is generally proportional to success rate.

Only 2 people have come back to the 80 and both were as a result of their own efforts, or lack there of. Both had prior training issues on the 80 as well.

They don't spoon feed you the information, but the information is there and help is readily available to ANYONE that asks for it.

If you can't make it though an Allegiant training program it's without a doubt your fault.

JustWatching
06-27-2017, 09:36 AM
The people who are washing out really deserve it and should probably not have a job here at all. However, there's plenty that should not work here and definitely should have failed but somehow make it through, usually because the guy making the call feels bad. #smallairlineproblems.

Anyhow, if you're a new FO enjoy flying with captains who've had multiple failures (during upgrade) and 60-100hours of upgrade OE but yet still have a demigod complex. You'll recognize them almost immediately.

Captains often get stuck flying with new FO's with similar issues, there's a good number of guys with 10 plus years at the regional that just DON'T KNOW how to fly. I'm not exaggerating. If you come here please put forth the same effort that the rest of us do. Leave your ego at the regional and forget how important you might've been over there. Come with an open mind and be ready to assimilate into our culture.

And if you're reading this thinking that I might be talking about you the answer is yes.

Very well said....

Captainbfv
06-27-2017, 09:40 AM
Thanks for the info, all. It's a tough decision to make. Sounds like a pretty rough first year with commuting, crash pads, and a pay cut to just over half what I'm making now. However, all that is par for the course if I went to any legacy, minus the pay cut. But the potential pay under the new contract, a 10-minute drive to work and the ability to be home every night sounds pretty nice. I write this as I'm on day 6 on the road.

As far as the training difficulties, when I started here at good old Chautauqua it was still very much a firehose/build the airplane training mentality, enforced by a bunch of turboprop guys that started here in the 70s and 80s, so I think I'd be ready for that...with alot of studying. I'm about 50/50 on applying or not, but I'm starting to lean towards going for it. Thanks again.

Here are my two cents.

I took a pay cut coming here last year. I had another job offer (Corporate job) that started me at 120K and was based 15 minutes from my home. I still chose to come here. Now before everyone unleashes the hounds on me let me explain WHY I came, and I'm glad I did.

1- I want an Airline Career. I've done about 50% of my career as a Corporate/Charter Captain and have been laid off pretty much from 80% of my jobs due to the aircraft being sold, or plain simple the owner not wanting to pay a full time pilot anymore.

2- Upgrade here can be significantly faster than most other Legacies/LLC/ULLCs. So I can make significantly more here as a captain. Of course it all comes down to the base.

3- QOL here will be GREATER due to the fact that we have a contract. We're "home" everyday. Even on a "bad" month here (reduced days off), I would still be home a lot more than any corporate/charter gig I was offered.

4- Stability! Allegiant even though it's going through growing pains, this place makes money, and has made money through the many downs in the industry.

5- By my third year hear I would not only make up the money lost during the first year, but I will surpass any salary of the the corporate/charter offers I had.

6- I wanted to just be a pilot again. Fly my plane and go home. Not be a jack of all trades which can be a fact on pretty much any/all corporate jobs.

7- The 120K job was to be a chief pilot for a large 135 operator. I've been a chief pilot before, and I'm not management material because I'm "to much of a pilot" and hate the politics and BS that management will sometimes do that will affect pilots. I side with the pilots to much, so most likely I would always be battling upper management.

8- QOL. Enough said lol

It hasn't been easy. We're a family of 5 in my family, and we have had to buckle down, sacrifice, commuting has been crappy. So what did I do? I go home usually once or maybe twice a month, and have my family come to me when the kids have time off from school. So support from the family is key. My credit score took a big hit do to credit cards to make ends meet at times. I've busted my hump as much as possible to make more money here the first year.
But just like me, my wife has understood that this first year of sacrifice will be greatly rewarded soon. I will be on second year pay very soon, and we are moving to a base very soon as well.

Biggest questions you need to ask yourself are.

Do I have my family's support if I take this path?

Am I willing to sacrifice temporarily to achieve something great long term?

Can I stay positive and steer away from negativity, whining, and complaining from others?

Yeah you can make more money off the bat at delta, United, etc. But to me it was simple. I'm DONE with commuting. I wanted to work somewhere that offered good base choices even if I am junior.

I refuse to be based, much less commute from JFK, LGA, or any other northeast base.

Good luck

dutch rudder
06-27-2017, 12:16 PM
How about taking some personal responsibility here buddy? Effort in is generally proportional to success rate.

Only 2 people have come back to the 80 and both were as a result of their own efforts, or lack there of. Both had prior training issues on the 80 as well.

They don't spoon feed you the information, but the information is there and help is readily available to ANYONE that asks for it.

If you can't make it though an Allegiant training program it's without a doubt your fault.

^^^this^^^

sargeanb
06-27-2017, 08:12 PM
Here are my two cents.

I took a pay cut coming here last year. I had another job offer (Corporate job) that started me at 120K and was based 15 minutes from my home. I still chose to come here. Now before everyone unleashes the hounds on me let me explain WHY I came, and I'm glad I did.

1- I want an Airline Career. I've done about 50% of my career as a Corporate/Charter Captain and have been laid off pretty much from 80% of my jobs due to the aircraft being sold, or plain simple the owner not wanting to pay a full time pilot anymore.

2- Upgrade here can be significantly faster than most other Legacies/LLC/ULLCs. So I can make significantly more here as a captain. Of course it all comes down to the base.

3- QOL here will be GREATER due to the fact that we have a contract. We're "home" everyday. Even on a "bad" month here (reduced days off), I would still be home a lot more than any corporate/charter gig I was offered.

4- Stability! Allegiant even though it's going through growing pains, this place makes money, and has made money through the many downs in the industry.

5- By my third year hear I would not only make up the money lost during the first year, but I will surpass any salary of the the corporate/charter offers I had.

6- I wanted to just be a pilot again. Fly my plane and go home. Not be a jack of all trades which can be a fact on pretty much any/all corporate jobs.

7- The 120K job was to be a chief pilot for a large 135 operator. I've been a chief pilot before, and I'm not management material because I'm "to much of a pilot" and hate the politics and BS that management will sometimes do that will affect pilots. I side with the pilots to much, so most likely I would always be battling upper management.

8- QOL. Enough said lol

It hasn't been easy. We're a family of 5 in my family, and we have had to buckle down, sacrifice, commuting has been crappy. So what did I do? I go home usually once or maybe twice a month, and have my family come to me when the kids have time off from school. So support from the family is key. My credit score took a big hit do to credit cards to make ends meet at times. I've busted my hump as much as possible to make more money here the first year.
But just like me, my wife has understood that this first year of sacrifice will be greatly rewarded soon. I will be on second year pay very soon, and we are moving to a base very soon as well.

Biggest questions you need to ask yourself are.

Do I have my family's support if I take this path?

Am I willing to sacrifice temporarily to achieve something great long term?

Can I stay positive and steer away from negativity, whining, and complaining from others?

Yeah you can make more money off the bat at delta, United, etc. But to me it was simple. I'm DONE with commuting. I wanted to work somewhere that offered good base choices even if I am junior.

I refuse to be based, much less commute from JFK, LGA, or any other northeast base.

Good luck

All good points. Thanks for the insight. I'm pretty much in a similar mindset. My goal from the beginning in this career has been to avoid commuting; I want as much time at home as possible. I already live in an Allegiant base, I just hope I'd be able to get assigned that within a year. Believe me, at the regional level, particularly before our current contract, I saw plenty of negativity...it never affected me. If it truly gets bad, people will vote with their feet. I'm hoping, if I do end up going there, that I could stay until retirement.

sargeanb
06-27-2017, 08:29 PM
The people who are washing out really deserve it and should probably not have a job here at all. However, there's plenty that should not work here and definitely should have failed but somehow make it through, usually because the guy making the call feels bad. #smallairlineproblems.

Anyhow, if you're a new FO enjoy flying with captains who've had multiple failures (during upgrade) and 60-100hours of upgrade OE but yet still have a demigod complex. You'll recognize them almost immediately.

Captains often get stuck flying with new FO's with similar issues, there's a good number of guys with 10 plus years at the regional that just DON'T KNOW how to fly. I'm not exaggerating. If you come here please put forth the same effort that the rest of us do. Leave your ego at the regional and forget how important you might've been over there. Come with an open mind and be ready to assimilate into our culture.

And if you're reading this thinking that I might be talking about you the answer is yes.

I've flown with some of the most senior capts here at the regional level, and I know exactly what you mean. I've seen some alleged "ranking" systems for legacy interviews that attached a negative value to those who were at a regional for more than 10 years with no career progression, for that very reason. We get comfortable/complacent, bad apples slip through the cracks, etc. I'm nobody particularly important here, just a bottom 1/3rd in-base seniority capt, after 10 years. I'm beginning to chomp at the bit to move on.

jegermeister
06-28-2017, 07:31 AM
All good points. Thanks for the insight. I'm pretty much in a similar mindset. My goal from the beginning in this career has been to avoid commuting; I want as much time at home as possible. I already live in an Allegiant base, I just hope I'd be able to get assigned that within a year.


Lots of good info on this thread. I would just caution anyone applying now not to do it with their heart set on a particular base. I'm VBD waiting for the Airbus to get back to my home airport. Their are quite a few of us waiting for a particular base. As hiring has slowed, the wait will get longer. VBD won't be offered to new hires anytime soon, so the commute will be on you. Some bases are filling up as well (IWA and CVG have several new hires from last year trying to get those bases).

It's a great job. Probably the best airline gig going today (if you live in base). Be prepared to move or commute if you get hired anytime soon. (I don't recommend commuting). Otherwise you'll be very disappointed if you don't get your home airport.

N1sync
07-05-2017, 07:29 AM
Lots of good info on this thread. I would just caution anyone applying now not to do it with their heart set on a particular base. I'm VBD waiting for the Airbus to get back to my home airport. Their are quite a few of us waiting for a particular base. As hiring has slowed, the wait will get longer. VBD won't be offered to new hires anytime soon, so the commute will be on you. Some bases are filling up as well (IWA and CVG have several new hires from last year trying to get those bases).

It's a great job. Probably the best airline gig going today (if you live in base). Be prepared to move or commute if you get hired anytime soon. (I don't recommend commuting). Otherwise you'll be very disappointed if you don't get your home airport.

July bid is pretty huge, I'd expect to see some movement generated due to the big upgrade numbers. As well there seems to be a lot of unplanned growth now that Jude is gone. 28 new routes and 19 unplanned aircraft from ALAFCO starting to show up in January certainly points to big growth.

Rumor why Jude left is because he wanted to keep growth at low levels as he promised the FAA during the audit, to keep our aircraft adequately staffed, and to limit sub-service expenses. Additionally he wanted to maintain the -80's to a decent standard even though we're parking them at a clip. Maury didn't want ANY of this. That's why we got the huge growth announcement, more planes, more sub-service, MD-80's rolling around with 7+ MEL's on a daily basis (and 100% on MTO), and a 'retired' VP of maintenance immediately after Jude's departure.

If true, Jude was the conservative one and wanted to make things work efficiently. Maury is the gambler but that's how we've had the success we've had. No risk, no reward? I certainly hope we can squeeze every ounce of life out of those -80's without any further ill consequences. If so then we have some good times ahead.

Anyway, all this was meant to underscore the massive growth that is coming. You'll probably see a bit in CVG sooner than later and once we get the international(Mexico-ish) flying underway you'll see 20-30% growth in many bases including IWA assuming we can get customs to move in, or we move to PHX.

N1sync
07-05-2017, 07:35 AM
Fair enough, but you can't plan on VBD as a new hire either. The Bus VBD list is shrinking and the most junior pilot on it has been here 9 months. He was also the most junior pilot on it 6 months ago. You might could hold MD80 VBD as a new hire, but that's no guarantee. My point is as a new hire, I would plan on making Guarantee. If you get lucky and make more then great, but don't plan on good money until year two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They said recently, I think on the conference call, that there will be no more md-80 VBD vacancies awarded or backfilled. If you've got it currently, keep it! VBD has become a pretty senior base for those in commuter pergatory, I would not expect it anytime soon as a new hire and as the transition concludes they've announced VBD will remain as a very small Domicile only on the Airbus.

ecam
07-05-2017, 07:42 AM
If you can't make it though an Allegiant training program it's without a doubt your fault.

I've had no issues in training here (other than having to mostly teach myself everything), but YES, this is the EXACT message the training department wants you to hear. If you have any problem it's YOUR fault, because you "didn't put out the effort". Oh and any attempt to explain yourself due to extraneous circumstances is "just making excuses". This comes directly from the Bus fleet manager on down through the APDs and IPs.

At most other airlines, large and small, (including most legacy carriers), the training department tells pilots "if you fail, it's because we failed you". Allegiant training is not enlightened like this. It's still the 1960s here. Cooperate and graduate. Life on the line is Best Airline Job Ever.

N1sync
07-05-2017, 10:46 AM
I've had no issues in training here (other than having to mostly teach myself everything), but YES, this is the EXACT message the training department wants you to hear. If you have any problem it's YOUR fault, because you "didn't put out the effort". Oh and any attempt to explain yourself due to extraneous circumstances is "just making excuses". This comes directly from the Bus fleet manager on down through the APDs and IPs.

At most other airlines, large and small, (including most legacy carriers), the training department tells pilots "if you fail, it's because we failed you". Allegiant training is not enlightened like this. It's still the 1960s here. Cooperate and graduate. Life on the line is Best Airline Job Ever.

The benefit of training at allegiant is that you already know within the first couple of days that they've failed you, between Fulcrum and the utter lack of a true syllabus you realize very quickly that you're on your own. If you still fail, I'd say it's your fault for not seeing the obvious.

JustWatching
07-05-2017, 02:45 PM
They said recently, I think on the conference call, that there will be no more md-80 VBD vacancies awarded or backfilled. If you've got it currently, keep it! VBD has become a pretty senior base for those in commuter pergatory, I would not expect it anytime soon as a new hire and as the transition concludes they've announced VBD will remain as a very small Domicile only on the Airbus.

They also told the last group of 80 upgrades (and the class before them) that they were the last group to upgrade and there's a class of more than 16 starting tomorrow.

Don't believe a thing they say. It was truthful when they said it, but plans change constantly around here.

JustWatching
07-05-2017, 02:46 PM
I've had no issues in training here (other than having to mostly teach myself everything), but YES, this is the EXACT message the training department wants you to hear. If you have any problem it's YOUR fault, because you "didn't put out the effort". Oh and any attempt to explain yourself due to extraneous circumstances is "just making excuses". This comes directly from the Bus fleet manager on down through the APDs and IPs.

At most other airlines, large and small, (including most legacy carriers), the training department tells pilots "if you fail, it's because we failed you". Allegiant training is not enlightened like this. It's still the 1960s here. Cooperate and graduate. Life on the line is Best Airline Job Ever.

I'm not on the Airbus, so I can't speak to that side of the house. On the -80, you are afforded EVERY, and I mean EVERY opportunity to be successful.

tailendcharlie
07-05-2017, 03:18 PM
They also told the last group of 80 upgrades (and the class before them) that they were the last group to upgrade and there's a class of more than 16 starting tomorrow.

Don't believe a thing they say. It was truthful when they said it, but plans change constantly around here.

"Every pilot on the property will be a captain in 5 years"

Told to usair newhire class, 1989.

JustWatching
07-05-2017, 04:36 PM
"Every pilot on the property will be a captain in 5 years"

Told to usair newhire class, 1989.


It works both ways for sure.

ecam
07-05-2017, 06:13 PM
The benefit of training at allegiant is that you already know within the first couple of days that they've failed you, between Fulcrum and the utter lack of a true syllabus you realize very quickly that you're on your own. If you still fail, I'd say it's your fault for not seeing the obvious.

Agreed…………

ecam
07-05-2017, 06:15 PM
They also told the last group of 80 upgrades (and the class before them) that they were the last group to upgrade and there's a class of more than 16 starting tomorrow.

Don't believe a thing they say. It was truthful when they said it, but plans change constantly around here.

Kind of like how they ran a 757 class in December.

Happydayz
09-24-2017, 06:49 PM
Looking through the posts, it appears guys are getting half of the month off. Is that a fair assumption? I live about an hour from LAX, how likely is it that I get that out of school? Do you guys have AM/PM bids? According to the info out there, upgrades could be less than 2 years with current environment. Is that accurate or what should I expect? I've spent way too many nights in hotel rooms, time to do locals and enjoy the family!

If someone on the inside can shed some valid information, I would really appreciate it.

Also, I have perused the forums and spent many hours trying to get a honest assessment. Just haven't found much on days off. I don't really want to drive to LAX 18-20 days a month. Half of the month, OK but LAX traffic is miserable.

Thanks

Happy

CAirBear
09-24-2017, 06:56 PM
Looking through the posts, it appears guys are getting half of the month off. Is that a fair assumption? I live about an hour from LAX, how likely is it that I get that out of school? Do you guys have AM/PM bids? According to the info out there, upgrades could be less than 2 years with current environment. Is that accurate or what should I expect? I've spent way too many nights in hotel rooms, time to do locals and enjoy the family!

If someone on the inside can shed some valid information, I would really appreciate it.

Also, I have perused the forums and spent many hours trying to get a honest assessment. Just haven't found much on days off. I don't really want to drive to LAX 18-20 days a month. Half of the month, OK but LAX traffic is miserable.

Thanks

Happy

LA is really only, in my eyes, a true base 3 months out of the year. June - August. Almost everyone flies during the summer and the rest of the year it’s pretty slow.

I was based there March - June. I literally did not work a single day in March. I was on reserve and never got called out. Again when it’s not summer time you only have maybe 1-2 flights a day, during your reserve period, that someone could be sick for etc. You will do very little flying.

My last month in LA was June and I had a line. 77 hours flying and 16 days off. The first half of the month I was off. I had a flight on the 7th and 11th, but from June 1-16 I only worked 2 times. Now from the 16-30th I flew almost everyday. I had a lot of 5 on 1-2 off.

There are AM/PM.

If you get awarded the Airbus you have a 99.999999% chance of getting LAX.

Hope that helps. It’s a good gig for sure.

Happydayz
09-24-2017, 07:09 PM
Thx a lot. Really appreciate that post. Upgrade time?
I can't financially afford staying as an FO for too long.
Im ready to stop doing red-eyes and away half of my life.
Thx again

skydisaster
09-24-2017, 07:25 PM
Looking through the posts, it appears guys are getting half of the month off. Is that a fair assumption?

If you are on reserve, you will be on reserve 18-19 days a month. If you have a composite (mixed line), who knows. Some guys have played the system well and only work a couple of days a month. Some guys on composite are working as many days as on reserve. Line holders typically work as much or as little as their seniority can hold. Credit values typically range from 3-8 hours per day. Senior guys can fly 95 hours in 13 days. Junior guys can take 20 days just to get to 70 hours. You would move up quickly in LAX, so it shouldn't take long to get a good schedule. The bottom 75% of the FO list in LAX is a revolving door.

I live about an hour from LAX, how likely is it that I get that out of school?

If you get the Airbus, it shouldn't take long at all. If you get the 80, it will be a while.

Do you guys have AM/PM bids?

We primarily have AM or PM flights, but not bids. It is common to flip flop until you get enough seniority to hold one or the other consistently. Typically AM goes more senior.

According to the info out there, upgrades could be less than 2 years with current environment. Is that accurate or what should I expect?

Under 2 years is on the MD80 which will not last that long. Current AB upgrades are around 3 years plus to bases that no one else wants. Many people hangout and wait on upgrade in their base. I suspect it will be 5 years or more for most new hires now, but that is pure speculation on my part. Many will disagree with that.



If someone on the inside can shed some valid information, I would really appreciate it.



Also, I have perused the forums and spent many hours trying to get a honest assessment. Just haven't found much on days off. I don't really want to drive to LAX 18-20 days a month. Half of the month, OK but LAX traffic is miserable.



Agreed on the traffic. Keep in mind that reserve callout is 90 minutes, which is ludicrous in LA. However, reserves are very lightly used in LAX.


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Happydayz
09-24-2017, 08:01 PM
Thx so much guys for helping with these questions. I currently have a pretty good job, but would love to spend more time at home and less in hotel rooms. I need to do the online video interview and see what happens.

According to this website, there seems to be a sim ride. What sim?

Thx again

skydisaster
09-24-2017, 08:28 PM
Thx so much guys for helping with these questions. I currently have a pretty good job, but would love to spend more time at home and less in hotel rooms. I need to do the online video interview and see what happens.



According to this website, there seems to be a sim ride. What sim?



Thx again



MD80 FTD.


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ecam
09-25-2017, 05:39 AM
Looking through the posts, it appears guys are getting half of the month off. Is that a fair assumption? I live about an hour from LAX, how likely is it that I get that out of school? Do you guys have AM/PM bids? According to the info out there, upgrades could be less than 2 years with current environment. Is that accurate or what should I expect? I've spent way too many nights in hotel rooms, time to do locals and enjoy the family!

If someone on the inside can shed some valid information, I would really appreciate it.

Also, I have perused the forums and spent many hours trying to get a honest assessment. Just haven't found much on days off. I don't really want to drive to LAX 18-20 days a month. Half of the month, OK but LAX traffic is miserable.

Thanks

Happy

In addition to what others said, on reserve, you will get the minimum days off every month. That's 12, except for 3 months a year when they can give you 10. As a line holder, I'd say it's pretty average to get 14-16 days off depending on your bidding strategy. Some senior folks don't mind doing one quick round trip every morning. Others bid doubles and inside turns for big daily credit, and work all day but only 10-12 days a month.

As said, there isn't much going on in LAX outside the summer. Reserves hardly ever work there. Then summer is crazy (and they usually TDY people in too). There's a good chance you could sit reserve at home anywhere in the LA basin or OC every day, and maybe have to drive in 3-4 times a month. If you're Inland, forget it. You're an hour from LAX? Is that in traffic or no traffic? That one time they call you at 0600 for a 730 show, and you're in Riverside, you're hosed. See ya in 3 hours. Our reserve report time is 90 minutes TO THE AIRPORT PARKING LOT, though, which is golden. The parking bus can take 40 minutes from the lot to the terminal when there's congestion. Hint, hint.

I'd guess you could hold a decent line there as an FO in about 6-8 months. It's a new hire assignment, and most new hires bid out before they're even out of training, so they only spend a few months there. So if you stay, you'll move up quickly. Also, LAS opening for AB has cleared out some senior commuters there.

You said you can't afford to stay an FO for long. Have you seen our pay rates? Most FOs here are making what they made as regional captains by 2nd year here. And if you're willing to go to an undesirable base, you could probably upgrade in less than 3 years.

KC135
09-25-2017, 07:19 PM
Just to clarify about upgrades:

Most junior MD80 CA award is SFB, April 2016 hire.

Most junior Airbus CA award is OAK, Jan 2016 hire.

These are awards from a couple months ago but not on the line yet.

A Jan 16 hire is about 65% overall seniority. Attrition has slowed so you would need about another 450 new hires behind you if hired today to achieve a similar %.

Our economy is due for the usual cyclic recession so I'd plan on a 5+ year upgrade if hired today and if it happens in 2-3 then great.

With that being said FO pay isn't too shabby and the QOL is great once you get a little seniority.

Desert Sky
09-26-2017, 08:56 PM
Just to clarify about upgrades:

Most junior MD80 CA award is SFB, April 2016 hire.

Most junior Airbus CA award is OAK, Jan 2016 hire.

These are awards from a couple months ago but not on the line yet.

A Jan 16 hire is about 65% overall seniority. Attrition has slowed so you would need about another 450 new hires behind you if hired today to achieve a similar %.

Our economy is due for the usual cyclic recession so I'd plan on a 5+ year upgrade if hired today and if it happens in 2-3 then great.

With that being said FO pay isn't too shabby and the QOL is great once you get a little seniority.
I disagree with your upgrade estimates. There will be massive growth coming once we are all airbus at 110 airframes, which is the new proposed number by Q4 2019. The whole company will be completely airbus by November of 2018. The announcement will occur within 4 weeks.

I estimate 2 years will last for awhile.

jegermeister
09-27-2017, 06:10 AM
Two to five years seems to be the consensus. I know that the current economy has many accustomed to quick upgrades. History has shown us that when the music stops, those estimates go out of the window. Fifteen to twenty year upgrades were a reality in our industry’s not so distant past.

Come here because you like the business model and plan on being an F/O for a while. You’ll be much happier. If you happen to upgrade in 2 years, then that’s a bonus.


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disco inferno
09-27-2017, 07:16 AM
The transition needed to be expedited years ago. The recent Fresno incident is a good example of why it's necessary. It's beyond embarrassing at this point. Just spend the damn money and be done with it FFS!

ecam
09-27-2017, 07:46 AM
I disagree with your upgrade estimates. There will be massive growth coming once we are all airbus at 110 airframes, which is the new proposed number by Q4 2019. The whole company will be completely airbus by November of 2018. The announcement will occur within 4 weeks.

I estimate 2 years will last for awhile.

I agree. Because of our unique fact among other airlines, that many FOs choose to wait and upgrade in base, I think the junior bases will always have shorter upgrades, maybe 2 years. Bases like IWA? Pretty much already 5 years. So it's all relative.

I'm not a sky is falling type of guy (unless pieces start hitting you in the head), so I refuse to believe the good times are about to end here. In 2008 and on, we made it through the worst recession in in almost a hundred years with flying colors. The funny thing about LCCs is that when the economy sucks, legacies shrink, and we grow, as price becomes more important than service level and frequency. I think we have a good chance of doing well in the next recession. People will always go on vacation, they will just take shorter, cheaper trips, closer to home. And we've got their vacation package.

The transition needed to be expedited years ago. The recent Fresno incident is a good example of why it's necessary. It's beyond embarrassing at this point. Just spend the damn money and be done with it FFS!

I totally agree. it's getting beyond ridiculous and the 80s are dragging down the whole company now in terms of reputation and cost. In my humble opinion, it's approaching a severe liability level too. In other words, if we ever have a serious incident, the lawyers are going to have plenty of evidence that the issues were known and ignored. Not to mention summer 2018 will be just as much of a debacle as this year if they don't get those heat restricted 80s out of Vegas. They need to finish the transition asap, not drag it out until 2019.

sargeanb
01-30-2018, 01:39 PM
Hello again all, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm looking for an update. I live 10 mins from CVG, I've been driving to CMH for my regional for quite some time, and it's getting old. I'm just curious how long it would take to get back to CVG with Allegiant. I take it I would have to commute to another base for awhile, but if it's longer than a year I'd prefer to just stay where I am. That's the only thing that has kept me from applying thus far. Thanks again all for the info in this thread...it's been very helpful.

skydisaster
01-30-2018, 01:47 PM
Hello again all, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm looking for an update. I live 10 mins from CVG, I've been driving to CMH for my regional for quite some time, and it's getting old. I'm just curious how long it would take to get back to CVG with Allegiant. I take it I would have to commute to another base for awhile, but if it's longer than a year I'd prefer to just stay where I am. That's the only thing that has kept me from applying thus far. Thanks again all for the info in this thread...it's been very helpful.



Most junior CVG FO is a 7/2017 hire date. It has opened up some because of IND opening this month.


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ysslah
01-31-2018, 05:13 AM
Hello again all, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm looking for an update. I live 10 mins from CVG, I've been driving to CMH for my regional for quite some time, and it's getting old. I'm just curious how long it would take to get back to CVG with Allegiant. I take it I would have to commute to another base for awhile, but if it's longer than a year I'd prefer to just stay where I am. That's the only thing that has kept me from applying thus far. Thanks again all for the info in this thread...it's been very helpful.

check your PM please

Jman85
01-31-2018, 07:47 AM
How junior is IND and PIE? Live next to PIE but might move to IND next year.

skydisaster
01-31-2018, 07:52 AM
How junior is IND and PIE? Live next to PIE but might move to IND next year.



Junior FO in both PIE and IND is 08/2017 hire date. IND just opened today, so it is hard to tell how senior it will go. IND is smaller, but is rumored to be growing quickly.


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ecam
01-31-2018, 08:10 AM
I heard a rumor that we lost the Apple contract in CVG (F9 outbid us?). Wondering how that will affect the base.

SkiVasquez
01-31-2018, 11:09 AM
I heard a rumor that we lost the Apple contract in CVG (F9 outbid us?). Wondering how that will affect the base.

Heard the same about PIT...true??

j3cub
01-31-2018, 12:15 PM
Heard the same about PIT...true??

I was told by a PIT crew that Apple doesn't like being in the charter business. They have to buy all the seats and it ends up being more risk for them if the flights aren't full.

They prefer to be the travel agent and I was told that G4 would take over the routes 100% with the guarantee that Apple would fill the seats.

We'll see. But I haven't heard anything about being bid out by F9.

Therealseal
01-31-2018, 03:08 PM
Junior FO in both PIE and IND is 08/2017 hire date. IND just opened today, so it is hard to tell how senior it will go. IND is smaller, but is rumored to be growing quickly.


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What's the size of the IND base?

skydisaster
01-31-2018, 04:17 PM
What's the size of the IND base?



It opened with 2 airplanes and 10 crews.


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Therealseal
01-31-2018, 05:34 PM
It opened with 2 airplanes and 10 crews.


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Thanks!

I wouldn't be surprised if the IND base is expanded, I have heard they have added something like 5 or 6 routes from there in the past year.....

Jman85
02-01-2018, 02:41 AM
Have they said how big they want IND to be?
Seems like a solid mid west crew base would be very beneficial.

ecam
02-01-2018, 05:11 AM
I was told by a PIT crew that Apple doesn't like being in the charter business. They have to buy all the seats and it ends up being more risk for them if the flights aren't full.

They prefer to be the travel agent and I was told that G4 would take over the routes 100% with the guarantee that Apple would fill the seats.

We'll see. But I haven't heard anything about being bid out by F9.

So let me get this straight. Instead of selling our own vacation packages to their destinations, we are going to let another travel agency sell vacation packages to places we fly, and buy seats from us. But they won't guarantee revenue by buying out the whole plane. We should trust them though, it will be full.

This doesn't sound like the allegiant I know.

j3cub
02-01-2018, 05:33 AM
Who cares. It's international service that will be in Allegiant's name. On flights that are already known to the customers in the area. We can sell tickets ourselves. And Apple guarantees so many seats are bought. On a completely selfish point, we would be able to now non rev on these flights.

Diversification is never a bad thing. And the routes are already successful.

Oh yeah, if I had a dollar for everytime someone got a worried about "change" then I would retire. Allegiant isn't the same as it was when I got hired 13 years ago. And I'm glad.

Bring it on.

skydisaster
02-01-2018, 05:34 AM
Have they said how big they want IND to be?

Seems like a solid mid west crew base would be very beneficial.



The company wants all bases to be bigger, none of us know how much bigger. The only limiting factor in growth seems to be sources and taking delivery of used Airbuses. Me personally, I see IND getting to about 3 airplanes and that is it.

I don’t see how a solid mid west crew base benefits G4 anymore than any other base. We have Crew bases where we fly airplanes a lot.


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G4IND
02-01-2018, 05:57 AM
The company wants all bases to be bigger, none of us know how much bigger. The only limiting factor in growth seems to be sources and taking delivery of used Airbuses. Me personally, I see IND getting to about 3 airplanes and that is it.

I don’t see how a solid mid west crew base benefits G4 anymore than any other base. We have Crew bases where we fly airplanes a lot.


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IND is already growing to 3 planes by the summer https://www.ibj.com/articles/66963-allegiant-adding-nonstop-flights-to-sarasota-charleston

I think 5 or so new routes have been announced since this time last year, so I think it will continue to grow...

Egg320
02-02-2018, 07:39 PM
How junior is IWA and what are the chances of getting IWA or FLL out of training?

skydisaster
02-02-2018, 07:43 PM
How junior is IWA and what are the chances of getting IWA or FLL out of training?



IWA is one of our more senior bases. Junior FO is a 04/17 hire, but it just came down to that. It was up around 18 months at one point. FLL is pretty junior and can usually be had either initially or within a couple of bids.


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