Airline Pilot Forums

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RemiDenton
06-26-2017, 09:30 AM
I'm just a year out of UPT and just over 7 months actually flying for my unit, flying heavies. Most the people here are great but functionality of the unit is minimal at best. At the end of the year I'll be approaching 600 hours in the aircraft and over 800 TT, but I won't have any deployments on the horizon and should be eligible for upgrade to AC within another year. Problem being, we have so many new folks I'm not sure how many hours I'm going to be getting. I'm concerned about my TT.

I'm constantly surrounded by Airline guys. They all rant don't take an ART gig. Don't do the regionals. Trough! But the flight hours just aren't there. So I'm at a crossroads and my 2 goals are simply put, but hard to decide. Take care of the family​ financially and get to the Majors ASAP. I'm looking to stay left of the Mississippi and reside on the best coast as of now. If I took a regional gig most likely I would be moving home and commuting to the Reserves on standby. I know thousands of us ask these same questions but I'm curious with bonuses out now how many people are considering regionals vs trying to bum hours off the AF. Again, deployments aren't an option after this year and I'll be Atp-r eligible when/if I apply.

Any thoughts to jumping onto the regional train for a few years or tools that folks have been using to make these decisions like spreadsheets with comparisons is much appreciated.

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viper548
06-26-2017, 02:08 PM
Pay at the regionals isn't great, but it's much better than it used to be. If you want to get to the majors ASAP, go to a regional. You'll check the 121 box and gain flight time quickly. Upgrade at the soonest opportunity with both the military and regional. Try and get to 3000TT as soon as you can to be competitive at the majors. Once you have that, try and upgrade to IP in the military, then you're just waiting for the phone to ring.
If you go to one of American's regionals, you have the guaranteed flow in your back pocket. You'd want Envoy to be able to stay away from the east coast.

RemiDenton
06-26-2017, 03:41 PM
Pay at the regionals isn't great, but it's much better than it used to be. If you want to get to the majors ASAP, go to a regional. You'll check the 121 box and gain flight time quickly. Upgrade at the soonest opportunity with both the military and regional. Try and get to 3000TT as soon as you can to be competitive at the majors. Once you have that, try and upgrade to IP in the military, then you're just waiting for the phone to ring.

If you go to one of American's regionals, you have the guaranteed flow in your back pocket. You'd want Envoy to be able to stay away from the east coast.



The decision is pretty much between Horizon or Compass I think. There isn't a domicile that doesn't work for me with all of the options with both Regionals. The difficulty lies in maximizing my AF flying as a new guy and trying to pay the bills. I can work as much or as little as I want to get paid so I have a buffer, but that doesn't always mean flights. And paying the bills with either employer means time away from Family anyhow.

I feel like flow thru isn't even anything to worry about with military progression but I also don't want to sound cocky. I hear horror stories of someone taking 10 years to progress to a flow. With companies that do flows, I've heard of folks getting slammed for their mil leave in early years. I'm going to have to scour the boards to see if there is anything like that consistent with either RA. Mil leave will be the only buffer that allows this plan to work.


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rekatron
06-27-2017, 09:31 AM
The decision is pretty much between Horizon or Compass I think. There isn't a domicile that doesn't work for me with all of the options with both Regionals. The difficulty lies in maximizing my AF flying as a new guy and trying to pay the bills. I can work as much or as little as I want to get paid so I have a buffer, but that doesn't always mean flights. And paying the bills with either employer means time away from Family anyhow.

I feel like flow thru isn't even anything to worry about with military progression but I also don't want to sound cocky. I hear horror stories of someone taking 10 years to progress to a flow. With companies that do flows, I've heard of folks getting slammed for their mil leave in early years. I'm going to have to scour the boards to see if there is anything like that consistent with either RA. Mil leave will be the only buffer that allows this plan to work.


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I went straight from the heavy mil flying to airlines, got called by like 4 majors, so here's my two cents.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is fly your butt off at the unit so you can upgrade as fast as possible. Being an AC or IP in a mil heavy gets you more points than right seat of a CRJ.

However, if your unit is giving you the runaround with getting flight time and upgrades, then look for leadership and volunteer roles at an airline. Upgrade to captain, become an instructor, LCA, whatever. Or, hell, volunteer with the union and work at the MEC/LEC/some committee. Majors want to see that you're more than some mindless stick jockey -- they want you being a leader from the first day you hit the line, not learning as you go.

While you're doing that, you need to hit up the networking aspect. Talk to people. Go to events -- doesn't necessarily have to be job fairs, but can be conventions or volunteer gigs. Pick the brain of airline dudes at your unit about how to meet dudes that can write you recommendations and introduce you to chief pilots and union leaders. You would be surprised how many higher up airline dudes I met who happened to be wearing a green bag.

crewdawg
06-27-2017, 05:43 PM
I went straight from the heavy mil flying to airlines, got called by like 4 majors, so here's my two cents.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is fly your butt off at the unit so you can upgrade as fast as possible. Being an AC or IP in a mil heavy gets you more points than right seat of a CRJ.

I tend to disagree. I will say up front that I'm a pointy nose guy and not a heavy driver. I was hired, by 2 legacies in early 2014, before most of my squadron mates who were all 1600-2000+ hour Viper IPs/EPs. I was only a 4-ship flight lead (not an IP) with just shy of 1,000 hours in the Viper, 700 light GA hours and ~100 hours 121 time. The only reason I think I was called is because I was able to check the 121 container.

A squadron mate had pretty much the same quals as me and he was hired by both cargo carriers and a legacy.

An indoc classmate was a regional captain and a C-130 co-pilot...he was hired buy JetBlue, USAir, AAL and got a DAL invite that he turned down.

If you can swing it financially, I would go to the regionals and build your TT as fast as possible. You'll still be gaining mil experience while gaining 121 experience. Upgrade as fast as possible (at both) and try for LCA/sim instructor/etc...



However, if your unit is giving you the runaround with getting flight time and upgrades, then look for leadership and volunteer roles at an airline. Upgrade to captain, become an instructor, LCA, whatever. Or, hell, volunteer with the union and work at the MEC/LEC/some committee. Majors want to see that you're more than some mindless stick jockey -- they want you being a leader from the first day you hit the line, not learning as you go.

While you're doing that, you need to hit up the networking aspect. Talk to people. Go to events -- doesn't necessarily have to be job fairs, but can be conventions or volunteer gigs. Pick the brain of airline dudes at your unit about how to meet dudes that can write you recommendations and introduce you to chief pilots and union leaders. You would be surprised how many higher up airline dudes I met who happened to be wearing a green bag.

Agreed 100%!

DirtyPurple
06-28-2017, 06:15 AM
Ask 10 mil guys currently at the airline of their choice, get 10 different answers. Every ARC unit has its warts. If the pay is steady and the commute is workable for either/both jobs the right answer for individual families will vary greatly.

In general, adding more complexity (commuting) to the dual-job life makes the suck factor increase. Flexibility to move to one job or the other, whichever job you plan to work harder, is a good concept. The holy grail of living in domicile for both jobs IS out there, but you may have to move from your most desired location.

Overall from what back channel info I've heard, the mil hour & upgrade is more valuable than the civ hour. Civ guys would love to have the mil diversity on their resume, but many missed the boat on that. I would be wary of sacrificing any mil hour or chance for mil upgrade to enter the regional meat grinder on the altar of diversification.

Thesis: work that mil like a Thai *****. Bum/Trough your way to victory, spend time with the fam, GET PAID. My era of growing up as a mil pilot did not include the current airline hiring frenzy. I only know that any regional pay/schedule pales in comparison to the avg TR life in the trough.

Vincent Chase
06-28-2017, 03:20 PM
If you pull the trigger, I'd live in RES domicile and commute to 121 work, because doing it the other way sucks. Ask me how I know. Work the hours for a bit, apply to a regional...that you can be domiciled close to home. Be careful of any bonus you take, as that may require an extended tour there. Get your 121 time, and keep your apps up to date. You're in a great place as of now...Hiring will be good for 4-5 yrs minimum. Obviously, seniority is everything at the major league, but since you're so young, it's gonna all be gravy at a later date. Many of the majors hire old dudes like me...I was hired when I was 45. Folks like me will be giving you a seniority bump in 12-17 yrs.:D



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