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View Full Version : Southwest in 10-20 years


GatorHog
07-15-2017, 05:48 AM
Saw this posted on the RST SWA Facebook page.

Southwest Airlines in Atlanta: No. 2 with no bullet (http://www.myajc.com/business/southwest-being-atl-ceo-says/VUo3PYf8d3AGWbG6gnkbvM/)

"But Kelly said he expects the opportunity in 20 years to be in longer-distance flying and bigger airplanes, “maybe some bigger, dual-aisle version of the 737.” He referenced Boeing’s new mid-sized plane under development, known as a 797, and said “maybe we’ll think about something like that one of these days.”

The same RST post had a comment from a WN pilot that listed an unnamed source (I know, I know) saying the day before the Paris Air Show that, "We are 5-10 years away from a bigger jet, but it'll have to fit our model. Maybe the 78, or something even newer." And then interestingly enough the 797 was announced the next day at Paris.


WHACKMASTER
07-15-2017, 07:39 AM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.

Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:

ZapBrannigan
07-15-2017, 07:45 AM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.



Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:


You have to wait in the jetway so you can say "good jet" to the oncoming crew. And there won't be crew meals, so make sure you pack some tuna and a hard boiled egg.


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RJSAviator76
07-15-2017, 08:10 AM
But will this "good jet" self-combust if left powered on and unattended? :rolleyes:

GatorHog
07-15-2017, 08:51 AM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.

Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:

And Rocky has made a point of saying at job fairs that the new training building has room for X number of simulators and they don't all necessarily have to be 737s. I agree it seems inevitable; if not with the 797 then something.

imr125
07-15-2017, 09:14 AM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.

Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:

Hahahaha!!
You almost nailed it......just delete the 'time' from 'Herb time' and now you have a statement truly worthy of eye-rolling.

SlipKid
07-15-2017, 10:17 AM
But will this "good jet" self-combust if left powered on and unattended? :rolleyes:

Of course it will! Same thing happens if you run the packs off the APU with PCA connected. Or use the recirc fan. :eek:

RJSAviator76
07-15-2017, 10:21 AM
Of course it will! Same thing happens if you run the packs off the APU with PCA connected. Or use the recirc fan. :eek:



Then it's a keeper! :biggrin:

ZapBrannigan
07-15-2017, 12:50 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170715/c4f53b007923a5afdf0e6d01dd46d753.jpg


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WHACKMASTER
07-15-2017, 09:32 PM
You have to wait in the jetway so you can say "good jet" to the oncoming crew. And there won't be crew meals, so make sure you pack some tuna and a hard boiled egg.


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Meh, **** it. I'll just grab an extra muffin or two :D

Squeaky banana
07-15-2017, 09:56 PM
Ground preconditioned air? What's that? I'm a spirit guy and I only know what the apu can do for me...

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SlipKid
07-16-2017, 06:08 AM
Ground preconditioned air? What's that? I'm a spirit guy and I only know what the apu can do for me...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

PCA is deliciously cold air that leaves a magical machine mounted under the jetway at about 50 degrees F and 30 PSI, goes through a 50 foot hose with holes in it, that's twisted like a balloon animal, then enters the mix chamber at about 100 degrees and at 1-3 psi. It's science. :D

e6bpilot
07-16-2017, 06:30 AM
PCA is deliciously cold air that leaves a magical machine mounted under the jetway at about 50 degrees F and 30 PSI, goes through a 50 foot hose with holes in it, that's twisted like a balloon animal, then enters the mix chamber at about 100 degrees and at 1-3 psi. It's science. :D



So effing true. My last trip was with a captain that as soon as they hooked power up, reached over and shut off the apu bleed and killed the apu. I finally pointedly started asking him if the air was hooked up. "They are working on it" was always his answer. I gave "them" about 30 seconds and then started it all back up.
Even then at about 70 percent of our stations, it is so hot that it is useless so I have to just fire it all back up anyway.

ZapBrannigan
07-16-2017, 06:51 AM
So effing true. My last trip was with a captain that as soon as they hooked power up, reached over and shut off the apu bleed and killed the apu. I finally pointedly started asking him if the air was hooked up. "They are working on it" was always his answer. I gave "them" about 30 seconds and then started it all back up.
Even then at about 70 percent of our stations, it is so hot that it is useless so I have to just fire it all back up anyway.


I absolutely hate it when they do that. [emoji35]


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SlipKid
07-16-2017, 06:52 AM
So effing true. My last trip was with a captain that as soon as they hooked power up, reached over and shut off the apu bleed and killed the apu. I finally pointedly started asking him if the air was hooked up. "They are working on it" was always his answer. I gave "them" about 30 seconds and then started it all back up.
Even then at about 70 percent of our stations, it is so hot that it is useless so I have to just fire it all back up anyway.

Amazing, isn't it? I think you're being generous by using 70%.

I've found that PCA alone actually keeps the airplane comfortable once in a while, at best.

I had the pleasure of DHing for over 10 hours a few trips ago. In 5 legs, only 2 of the crews kept the aircraft cool enough for human occupancy. And one of them was a 300 in LAS(!). Cabin temp on the other 3 was well over 90, (one of the 700s was over 100, and yes, I do carry a thermometer, for this reason) and the cockpit crews ignored my texts and relays via the FAs to cool it down. Pax were miserable too.

Most of the FOs are still killing the APU as soon as we get to the gate, even after I brief them not to.

hoover
07-16-2017, 06:39 PM
I've gotten out of my seat and went into the cockpit to tell them it's wicked hot. Even had to do a little dual on how to the plane cool. Yeah it may be out of place to do so, but I wouldn't want my grandma or baby on that plane.

full of luv
07-17-2017, 07:01 PM
I've gotten out of my seat and went into the cockpit to tell them it's wicked hot. Even had to do a little dual on how to the plane cool. Yeah it may be out of place to do so, but I wouldn't want my grandma or baby on that plane.

Apparently the press has now picked up on this theme...lobbying to punish airlines who allow a cabin to sit at 140degrees waiting for pushback.....:eek:

FAA Doesn't Specify How Hot Is Too Hot in a Grounded Airplane - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/faa-doesn-t-specify-how-hot-it-can-be-grounded-n783346)

flensr
07-17-2017, 11:17 PM
PCA is deliciously cold air that leaves a magical machine mounted under the jetway at about 50 degrees F and 30 PSI, goes through a 50 foot hose with holes in it, that's twisted like a balloon animal, then enters the mix chamber at about 100 degrees and at 1-3 psi. It's science. :D

Oh yea we got that at Spirit too. I think we have one station that hooks up external air correctly (ie. no kinks in the hose) so I think most guys fire up the APU right after landing and then pook in the APU bleed air button 69 seconds after both engines are shut off.

Of course, there are the guys who open up APU bleed immediately after shutting down the engines, then wonder why suddenly the plane smells like half-burned jet fuel... Give it a minute and it doesn't smell so bad.

I do appreciate the CAs who turn off APU bleed when I go outside for the walk-around. I don't turn it off myself because FO (right?) but its nice knowing the CA cares enough to double-check that I turned on the parking brake and is willing to help me save my hearing by turning off the APU bleed for the few minutes it takes for the walk-around.

hoover
07-18-2017, 12:57 PM
Apparently the press has now picked up on this theme...lobbying to punish airlines who allow a cabin to sit at 140degrees waiting for pushback.....:eek:

FAA Doesn't Specify How Hot Is Too Hot in a Grounded Airplane - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/faa-doesn-t-specify-how-hot-it-can-be-grounded-n783346)

I'd support that. Maybe then we'd have jet bridge cooling and gate air that worked before the summer started not att he end of the 3rd quarter

taters
07-18-2017, 02:27 PM
The "middle of market" concept
looks alot like a 757...released by Boeing in Paris this Summer.
http://uschnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/boeing-797-paris-air-show-gets-glimpse-of-new-airliner.jpeg

ZapBrannigan
07-18-2017, 04:06 PM
It's supposed to be twin aisle though. So maybe like a 767?


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flyguy81
07-18-2017, 05:26 PM
It's supposed to be twin aisle though. So maybe like a 767?


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220-270 pax and a range of 5,200 nm or so. Not sure the capacity or range of a 767.

Tokyo
07-18-2017, 05:32 PM
I do appreciate the CAs who turn off APU bleed when I go outside for the walk-around. I don't turn it off myself because FO (right?) but its nice knowing the CA cares enough to double-check that I turned on the parking brake and is willing to help me save my hearing by turning off the APU bleed for the few minutes it takes for the walk-around.

Aren't you often parked near other airplanes with APUs running?
You don't have the little foam ear inserts available where you work? That's a huge hazard to your hearing if not.

On second thought, maybe you are just looking for the additional noise reduction.

flensr
07-18-2017, 09:07 PM
Aren't you often parked near other airplanes with APUs running?
You don't have the little foam ear inserts available where you work? That's a huge hazard to your hearing if not.

On second thought, maybe you are just looking for the additional noise reduction.

Yea I use the foam ear plugs. It's still quieter/cooler with the APU bleed off. Not enough to make a big deal out of it, but again its a nice touch knowing the CA is paying attention and willing to assist.

WHACKMASTER
07-18-2017, 09:17 PM
220-270 pax and a range of 5,200 nm or so. Not sure the capacity or range of a 767.

The preliminary specs are 220-270 PAX (so probably 250ish with our seating), 5,200 mile range (slightly less than a 767ER), twin aisle with an elliptical fuselage that's probably a 2-3-2 config but more towards the narrow-body side as far as baggage capacity.

5,200 NM range puts BWI to Hawaii, Eastern Europe, Rio, São Paulo, Santiago in range and Buenos Aires just at the edge of it.

Now if only the "Conquer the Entire World With the B737" mentality that permeates DAL would change :rolleyes:

flyguy81
07-19-2017, 05:21 AM
The preliminary specs are 220-270 PAX (so probably 250ish with our seating), 5,200 mile range (slightly less than a 767ER), twin aisle with an elliptical fuselage that's probably a 2-3-2 config but more towards the narrow-body side as far as baggage capacity.

5,200 NM range puts BWI to Hawaii, Eastern Europe, Rio, São Paulo, Santiago in range and Buenos Aires just at the edge of it.

Now if only the "Conquer the Entire World With the B737" mentality that permeates DAL would change :rolleyes:

Amen to that. They're gonna have to do something with another airframe eventually. I've got 30 years left and can't imagine Boeing still building 737's in 2047.

e6bpilot
07-19-2017, 05:34 AM
Amen to that. They're gonna have to do something with another airframe eventually. I've got 30 years left and can't imagine Boeing still building 737's in 2047.



I am quite sure someone in 1987 said the same thing.

Peacock
07-19-2017, 06:42 AM
The preliminary specs are 220-270 PAX (so probably 250ish with our seating), 5,200 mile range (slightly less than a 767ER), twin aisle with an elliptical fuselage that's probably a 2-3-2 config but more towards the narrow-body side as far as baggage capacity.

5,200 NM range puts BWI to Hawaii, Eastern Europe, Rio, São Paulo, Santiago in range and Buenos Aires just at the edge of it.

Now if only the "Conquer the Entire World With the B737" mentality that permeates DAL would change :rolleyes:

How does it make sense to add an extra aisle to only get one more seat per row?

Smooth at FL450
07-19-2017, 07:37 AM
How does it make sense to add an extra aisle to only get one more seat per row?

Helps speed up the boarding process by having a second row...gotta keep those :35 turns!

Peacock
07-19-2017, 09:34 AM
Helps speed up the boarding process by having a second row...gotta keep those :35 turns!

Cattle call boarding seems problematic with two aisles

SlipKid
07-19-2017, 10:10 AM
I am quite sure someone in 1987 said the same thing.

Probably..... I know I said it less than a decade later. :eek:

flyguy81
07-19-2017, 10:32 AM
I am quite sure someone in 1987 said the same thing.

lol....got me there.

full of luv
07-19-2017, 12:11 PM
I am quite sure someone in 1987 said the same thing.

Exactly.... my father worked as ATC in 1969 and remembers when the 737 was first flown into his station (known affectionately by the controllers at the time as the FLUF: Fat Little Ugly Fer).

He retired in 1980 (before the firings) but the 737 lives on!

e6bpilot
07-19-2017, 01:59 PM
Exactly.... my father worked as ATC in 1969 and remembers when the 737 was first flown into his station (known affectionately by the controllers at the time as the FLUF: Fat Little Ugly Fer).



He retired in 1980 (before the firings) but the 737 lives on!



It's the Dick Clark of airplanes. Plus, it is a 707 from the wing root to the nose. It is true proof that Boeing and airlines give zero Fs what pilots think.

captkirk3000
07-19-2017, 02:26 PM
As for Southwest in 10-20 years...
With all the expansion in FLL, does anyone think it will end up being a base or satellite base of some sort?!

SlipKid
07-19-2017, 08:34 PM
As for Southwest in 10-20 years...
With all the expansion in FLL, does anyone think it will end up being a base or satellite base of some sort?!

Not until I move........;)

Loon
07-23-2017, 08:57 AM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.

Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:

"Local lobby"
No, I was planning on atlantic standard time in burbank.

e6bpilot
07-23-2017, 01:53 PM
"Local lobby"

No, I was planning on atlantic standard time in burbank.



Or my favorite "what's that van time in Herb?"
Oh, you want me to do public math and become somehow culpable in any errors resulting in a late lobby on your part?
My answer - I don't know, dude, I just go by the time on my phone. See, I don't even own a watch.
I assume the same guys asking these questions are the people who still write checks for cash at the front desk.

Spicy McHaggis
07-23-2017, 08:32 PM
Ok, what the hell is Herb time?

Warhawg01
07-23-2017, 10:35 PM
Central time, or more accurately -- the time in Dallas. SWA schedulers only speak in Herb time, even when they call you in Baltimore or LA to reschedule you.

mainlineAF
07-24-2017, 04:25 AM
Or my favorite "what's that van time in Herb?"
Oh, you want me to do public math and become somehow culpable in any errors resulting in a late lobby on your part?
My answer - I don't know, dude, I just go by the time on my phone. See, I don't even own a watch.
I assume the same guys asking these questions are the people who still write checks for cash at the front desk.



I'm so glad we split from our FAs(AA). There was nothing worse than the nagging about the the van times. You're big girls, figure it out.

David Puddy
07-24-2017, 02:57 PM
Having read up on the 797 I am very confident that it will be in our fleet eventually. The sooner the B737 only minded execs retire the sooner this will happen.

Of course, you'll find yourself on a Rio layover with it and they'll still be crew members who'll want to "lobby" :rolleyes: at _____ "Herb time" :rolleyes:

The sad thing is that your pilot group will INSIST that the overhead panel of the new 797 retain the 737-200 overhead panel for training consistency... Thanks guys! ;)

SlipKid
07-24-2017, 03:01 PM
The sad thing is that your pilot group will INSIST that the overhead panel of the new 797 retain the 737-200 overhead panel for training consistency... Thanks guys! ;)

That's one of the few issues here that we can't blame on the pilot group! :D

Smooth at FL450
07-24-2017, 04:02 PM
The sad thing is that your pilot group will INSIST that the overhead panel of the new 797 retain the 737-200 overhead panel for training consistency... Thanks guys! ;)

Pretty sure it's not the pilots pushing for the continuity.

rightseat
07-24-2017, 05:51 PM
Just a nagging question for me that I cannot figure out. If Southwest only has 256 pilots retiring in 2017 and 2018 (published on this site), why do they need to hire almost 2,000 pilots in the same time period? I recognize they have planned growth of 3% per year. With about an 8,500 pilot seniority list, that would account for an additional 517 pilots, or a total of of 773. What am I missing as to why they would need almost 2,000 in the 2017-18?

flyguy81
07-24-2017, 05:57 PM
Just a nagging question for me that I cannot figure out. If Southwest only has 256 pilots retiring in 2017 and 2018 (published on this site), why do they need to hire almost 2,000 pilots in the same time period? I recognize they have planned growth of 3% per year. With about an 8,500 pilot seniority list, that would account for an additional 517 pilots, or a total of of 773. What am I missing as to why they would need almost 2,000 in the 2017-18?

Nobody that knows is spilling the beans. I've heard sick calls are up. I've heard less open time is being picked up. I've heard red-eyes are in the works with the Amadeus software. I've heard they want to keep from JA'ing people so want to increase staffing.

As long as it's internal growth and not another merger I don't really care if they hire 2,000 as long as they go behind me and not in front.

Woodbourne23
07-24-2017, 06:10 PM
Just a nagging question for me that I cannot figure out. If Southwest only has 256 pilots retiring in 2017 and 2018 (published on this site), why do they need to hire almost 2,000 pilots in the same time period? I recognize they have planned growth of 3% per year. With about an 8,500 pilot seniority list, that would account for an additional 517 pilots, or a total of of 773. What am I missing as to why they would need almost 2,000 in the 2017-18?

First and foremost, those numbers will only come to fruition in due time. Said another way, in my interview six years ago they said Hawaii was coming SOON. I'm not saying they dont hire those numbers; however, we have had 30+ guys leave this year so some of the " huge numbers" may be a marketing ploy to build excitement among a dwindling hiring pool.

As for actual hard data: airplane utilization is up YOY and once the classics go away, we will start seeing net fleet growth. Couple this with all the historical reasons ranging from more weeks of vacation, to pay raises, to sick time usage, fatiguing schedules and the company's very short sided approach of chasing the metric of premium time doled out over summer equals staffing more akin to the legacies.

We usually run about -200 pilots in the summer and slightly fat for the reduced fall schedule. Now we are hearing they want +200 in the summer so as to eliminate premium as much as possible. That alone is a swing of 400 pilots. Red eyes won't be here till probably after 2018 as their technology still sucks. Hearing west coast etops tdy for mechanics in April of 2018

Add all that up and we definitely need bodies. 2k though... maybe not

at6d
07-24-2017, 07:27 PM
The 300's have a 60% reliability rate where the 700/800's are in the 90's (rumor).

The 300's going away and additions to the rest of the fleet with higher reliability plus added flying (red eyes, the "50 new cities") would mean more pilots.

How about going from ten sims to 18 with room for more and a whole new training center?

gipple
07-29-2017, 02:22 PM
Red phukcing eyes.
Plain and simple. 30% of the clock is unutilized. Bean counters know figures.
I am not going to do them, so hire away.
84% will have no problem volunteering YOU to fly them.

ShyGuy
07-29-2017, 03:42 PM
10-20 yrs, Southwest and Alaska merge
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/gif/22c163425531f4ab2ef3a7f8c986b692cd0f3c2b_t.gif

WHACKMASTER
07-29-2017, 04:16 PM
Red phukcing eyes.
Plain and simple. 30% of the clock is unutilized. Bean counters know figures.
I am not going to do them, so hire away.
84% will have no problem volunteering YOU to fly them.

Agreed. Red-eyes on a large scale are the only things that make sense for such drastic hiring considering the small increase in airframes.

GatorHog
07-29-2017, 06:37 PM
Ok so honest question: assuming you didn't have to fly them (bc God knows they suck...hate flying them as a passenger, can't imagine it would be any better as a pilot), could adding a bunch of red eyes potentially be a good thing? Increase in relative seniority from all the hiring to staff them, as well as more profits for the company leading to bigger profit sharing checks?

CA1900
07-29-2017, 06:40 PM
It might also create trips that are commutable on both sides, which would be fantastic.

WHACKMASTER
07-29-2017, 08:03 PM
More flying/aircraft utilization is always a good things. Personally, I didn't mind them but I'm a night owl. However, commuting home after a red-eye is it's own special brand of torture.

ZapBrannigan
07-29-2017, 11:57 PM
Redeyes also don't have to be the stereotypical west to east transcon. Look at the jetBlue island turns. They leave JFK around 10pm, fly down to Ponce or Aguadilla, turn at 2am, and have the airplane back in JFK in time for the morning push.

I agree that one man's trash is another man's treasure. My only concern would be if they build them into normal pairings. If the redeye is just part of a 3 day trip it would really suck.


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e6bpilot
07-30-2017, 07:54 AM
Redeyes also don't have to be the stereotypical west to east transcon. Look at the jetBlue island turns. They leave JFK around 10pm, fly down to Ponce or Aguadilla, turn at 2am, and have the airplane back in JFK in time for the morning push.

I agree that one man's trash is another man's treasure. My only concern would be if they build them into normal pairings. If the redeye is just part of a 3 day trip it would really suck.


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The above is definitely my trash. I did a lot of back side of the clock flying in a previous life. It takes my body a long time to recover from something like that.
I think that SWA is going to build them however the pairing generator decides to build them...for maximum efficiency while honoring the CBA. They are, no doubt, going to be painful. I predict a lot of pairings ending with a red eye as well as stand ups and turns like the one you talk about above. SWA just won't swallow a 30 hour overnight for crew as it is a highly inefficient way to get someone rested.

ZapBrannigan
07-30-2017, 08:08 AM
SWA just won't swallow a 30 hour overnight for crew as it is a highly inefficient way to get someone rested.


HA HA! I could just hear the sarcasm dripping from this sentence.




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RJSAviator76
07-30-2017, 09:33 AM
Redeyes also don't have to be the stereotypical west to east transcon. Look at the jetBlue island turns. They leave JFK around 10pm, fly down to Ponce or Aguadilla, turn at 2am, and have the airplane back in JFK in time for the morning push.

I agree that one man's trash is another man's treasure. My only concern would be if they build them into normal pairings. If the redeye is just part of a 3 day trip it would really suck.


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I've had a couple of trips recently where we ended up getting to the hotel maybe an hour or so before the first AM crews were set to leave the hotel. UNCOOL!

WHACKMASTER
07-30-2017, 09:52 AM
At least we got a whopping 3% override for doing the ****ing things :mad:

RJSAviator76
07-30-2017, 11:10 AM
At least we got a whopping 3% override for doing the ****ing things :mad:

Dude! You get a full meal at Burger King for your override... what are you mad about? I don't move up from the value options unless I count per diem, sacrifice my 401k contribution, use my employee discount and forego the fries... :D

e6bpilot
07-30-2017, 11:35 AM
HA HA! I could just hear the sarcasm dripping from this sentence.




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I know, I know. 3 hours of ground time in a domicile probably isn't the most efficient use of a crew. Nor is deadheading a reserve 3 legs to go 100 miles. I shouldn't get ahead of myself. I am just saying they are some cheap bastards and they will pinch pennies on these things by making them as painful as legally possible. Right now the way we do a lot of international stuff on the cheap is to put it as a bonus turn on the last day or as a standalone turn that blocks high.

WHACKMASTER
07-30-2017, 02:58 PM
Dude! You get a full meal at Burger King for your override... what are you mad about? I don't move up from the value options unless I count per diem, sacrifice my 401k contribution, use my employee discount and forego the fries... :D

Maybe I can buy my muffin for my international turn with that red-eye override :rolleyes:

RJSAviator76
07-30-2017, 03:30 PM
Maybe I can buy my muffin for my international turn with that red-eye override :rolleyes:



Aren't you supposed to steal them? ;)

ZapBrannigan
07-30-2017, 04:54 PM
At least we got a whopping 3% override for doing the ****ing things :mad:


To be completely fair, the only airline that offers a redeye override was jetBlue. None of the big 3 do.


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PropPiedmont
07-31-2017, 08:38 AM
To be completely fair, the only airline that offers a redeye override was jetBlue. None of the big 3 do.


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Guess that means the hourly rate at the big three is at least 3% better than SWA or JB rates.

SlipKid
07-31-2017, 08:42 AM
My only concern would be if they build them into normal pairings. If the redeye is just part of a 3 day trip it would really suck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is exactly what I am afraid is gonna happen, since there is nothing in our almost industry standard contract to prevent it. :eek:

I wonder if we'll still get the whopping 3% override for the inevitable fatigue call?

SlipKid
07-31-2017, 08:44 AM
Maybe I can buy my muffin for my international turn with that red-eye override :rolleyes:

Only if there is a place OPEN to buy one (or, as management suggested, get one for free). Or you can always just carry a food bag like a regional FA......;)

SlipKid
07-31-2017, 09:45 AM
Guess that means the hourly rate at the big three is at least 3% better than SWA or JB rates.

Yeah, but don't forget, you can always work more here to get your pay up to industry average.....:D

Tankerhead
07-31-2017, 07:07 PM
I've had a couple of trips recently where we ended up getting to the hotel maybe an hour or so before the first AM crews were set to leave the hotel. UNCOOL!

That ain't sh!t. Did the "good jet"/handshake shuffle one morning in FLL at 535 am.

RJSAviator76
07-31-2017, 07:22 PM
That ain't sh!t. Did the "good jet"/handshake shuffle one morning in FLL at 535 am.



Ughhhh.... as a PM'er, that is not cool.

e6bpilot
07-31-2017, 07:32 PM
Been there. Landed to the rising sun in BWI. Got to the hotel just in time for the day shift of housekeeping to practice tapping on my door with their key card every 45 minutes because apparently the do not disturb sign means I have checked out.

ZapBrannigan
08-01-2017, 02:18 AM
That's really the only reason I don't fly PMs. I'd rather wake up early and start on time, then start late, spend all night playing catch-up, and roll into bed at 3am.

As soon as the sun comes up, I'm awake anyway. [emoji30]


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TerrainTerrain
08-01-2017, 09:24 AM
Been there. Landed to the rising sun in BWI. Got to the hotel just in time for the day shift of housekeeping to practice tapping on my door with their key card every 45 minutes because apparently the do not disturb sign means I have checked out.

Just curious because you mentioned hotels. How are SWA hotels on overnights? Is there a minimum star rating? Are most places on par with a double tree or a embassy? Or are they worse? Thanks for the info!

ZapBrannigan
08-01-2017, 09:42 AM
Just curious because you mentioned hotels. How are SWA hotels on overnights? Is there a minimum star rating? Are most places on par with a double tree or a embassy? Or are they worse? Thanks for the info!


Just depends. There is nothing contractual that requires any standard of hotel. No short/long language. No minimum criteria.

We stay at great all inclusive resorts in the islands, terrific four star downtown hotels... but we also stay at a ton of Holiday Inns and even Elegantes and Hyatt Place type hotels near the airport or in an industrial park.

That said, they've been knocking it out of the park with great hotels in great locations lately... but that could all go away in the blink of an eye.


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Burton78
08-01-2017, 10:02 AM
^^
I tend to agree although I wouldn't say we stay at a "ton" of Holiday Inns and Hyatt Places as I've had maybe one overnight at said hotels in the last year and have never overnighted in west Texas so I've never stayed at the illustrious Elegante. YMMV

I also agree that the quality and location of hotels have increased Dramatically over the last 6 or so months. Not that the places we stayed at were necessarily bad hotels, it's more that the locations left a lot to be desired. I hope PDX and SEA are on the short list for a location change.

BTW, does anyone know if new hires are being put up at the Anatole yet?

e6bpilot
08-01-2017, 10:12 AM
I'll second the above sentiments. Much improvement as of late. The group as a whole has accepted crappy hotels as a way of life for way too long.

ZapBrannigan
08-01-2017, 10:47 AM
Yes, the last few newhire classes have been in the Anatole.


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Peacock
08-01-2017, 10:47 AM
^^
I tend to agree although I wouldn't say we stay at a "ton" of Holiday Inns and Hyatt Places as I've had maybe one overnight at said hotels in the last year and have never overnighted in west Texas so I've never stayed at the illustrious Elegante. YMMV

I also agree that the quality and location of hotels have increased Dramatically over the last 6 or so months. Not that the places we stayed at were necessarily bad hotels, it's more that the locations left a lot to be desired. I hope PDX and SEA are on the short list for a location change.

BTW, does anyone know if new hires are being put up at the Anatole yet?

I'll find out myself in three weeks, but my buddy who already classed up is staying at the Anatole

at6d
08-01-2017, 12:45 PM
Rolled into an east coast hotel at 0430 last week. Seems more common than a year ago.

SlipKid
08-01-2017, 01:50 PM
Rolled into an east coast hotel at 0430 last week. Seems more common than a year ago.

Rolled into the crib at 0400 this morning. And we were 30 minutes early.... :eek:

Still orders of magnitude better than getting up at 0200.

at6d
08-01-2017, 06:13 PM
Oh hell yes. God bless you AM weirdos!

FlyDive
08-05-2017, 05:40 AM
Keep AMs weird! 😜

e6bpilot
08-05-2017, 07:32 AM
Keep AMs weird! [emoji12]



For sure. I met the AM crew in a "party city" yesterday. After explaining every single thing about the aircraft (not a "good jet") and rides and apologizing for being late, I told the inbound FO that the streets were filled with party goers already and it looked like a good time to be had.
He replied with "well, I am an AMer, and we really don't do partying. I just hope they quiet down so I can get some rest."
I told him he needs to look into day drinking as a hobby, shrugged my shoulders, and dove into the airplane.

WHACKMASTER
08-05-2017, 10:09 AM
For sure. I met the AM crew in a "party city" yesterday. After explaining every single thing about the aircraft (not a "good jet") and rides and apologizing for being late, I told the inbound FO that the streets were filled with party goers already and it looked like a good time to be had.
He replied with "well, I am an AMer, and we really don't do partying. I just hope they quiet down so I can get some rest."
I told him he needs to look into day drinking as a hobby, shrugged my shoulders, and dove into the airplane.

Hahaha. The ultimate "lighten up Francis" huh?



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