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View Full Version : Qatar scabs


sailingfun
07-17-2017, 06:13 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-03/british-airways-rides-out-16-day-cabin-strike-with-qatar-planes


Denti
07-17-2017, 10:32 PM
Already covered here. And it happened in a well established manner. Last time it was BA pilots that worked in the cabin and kept the planes flying, this time it is a wetlease from a major shareholder.

sailingfun
07-18-2017, 02:03 AM
Do you have a source for that? Seems highly unlikely any airline would have that kind of pilot surplus and the time to train them for the cabin.


Denti
07-18-2017, 02:56 AM
It was in the slump time and there was quite a bit of a discussion about that on pprune. Dunno when exactly, but somewhere in the 2009-2012 timeframe. And no, nowadays they don't have the surplus workforce in the flightdeck to do that, that why they wet leased in Qatar, which, by the way is of course completely legal in europe.

Found at least one newspaper article about that: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7533989/British-Airways-paying-pilots-166-an-hour-to-cover-strike.html

Training for pilots is just about a few hours, after all we are already trained in SEP for the cabin side as well, that is a basic EASA requirement.

sailingfun
07-18-2017, 05:25 AM
It was in the slump time and there was quite a bit of a discussion about that on pprune. Dunno when exactly, but somewhere in the 2009-2012 timeframe. And no, nowadays they don't have the surplus workforce in the flightdeck to do that, that why they wet leased in Qatar, which, by the way is of course completely legal in europe.

Found at least one newspaper article about that: British Airways 'paying pilots 166 an hour to cover strike' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7533989/British-Airways-paying-pilots-166-an-hour-to-cover-strike.html)

Training for pilots is just about a few hours, after all we are already trained in SEP for the cabin side as well, that is a basic EASA requirement.

It's legal to perform struck work in the US however it is still scabbing. I can only find a union claim they used pilots. Can't find any proof it happened.

Denti
07-18-2017, 07:55 AM
Oh, it did happen. With BALPAs being neutral about it too. Which is pretty much the same as saying, well, go ahead with it. A union that is offically "neutral" about what you call scabbing, and behind the scenes very much in favor, that is what happened in a nutshell.

See also https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/153639/Pilots-volunteer-to-break-cabin-crew-strike/amp

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/05/brit-m17.html

Grumble
07-18-2017, 01:42 PM
Oh, it did happen. With BALPAs being neutral about it too. Which is pretty much the same as saying, well, go ahead with it. A union that is offically "neutral" about what you call scabbing, and behind the scenes very much in favor, that is what happened in a nutshell.

See also https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/153639/Pilots-volunteer-to-break-cabin-crew-strike/amp

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/05/brit-m17.html

So you're one of the Qatar scabs. Rationalize it all you want... you're a SCAB abd should be treated as such.

skyslave
07-19-2017, 05:19 AM
Your comment is out of the line. If you never worked in the Middle East than you have no idea what are you talking about. Unions in the Middle East are illegal and anyone who would "strike", would face jail time. So, in other words...if the company tells you to go fly to UK for a month, you either go to work or you quit. I hope you got the message

sailingfun
07-19-2017, 06:05 AM
Your comment is out of the line. If you never worked in the Middle East than you have no idea what are you talking about. Unions in the Middle East are illegal and anyone who would "strike", would face jail time. So, in other words...if the company tells you to go fly to UK for a month, you either go to work or you quit. I hope you got the message

Same thing has happened in the US. I admit they are tough choices but still a choice. Review the last Spirit strike in the US for a similar situation.

Grumble
07-19-2017, 09:50 AM
Your comment is out of the line. If you never worked in the Middle East than you have no idea what are you talking about. Unions in the Middle East are illegal and anyone who would "strike", would face jail time. So, in other words...if the company tells you to go fly to UK for a month, you either go to work or you quit. I hope you got the message

Got it, tough spot to be in, no argument there. Flying struck work however makes you a Scab, there's no addendum to that. ^^^^See the Falcon Air pilots that flew NK pax during their strike, and more importantly the ones that refused.

contrails
07-19-2017, 09:05 PM
Your comment is out of the line. If you never worked in the Middle East than you have no idea what are you talking about. Unions in the Middle East are illegal and anyone who would "strike", would face jail time. So, in other words...if the company tells you to go fly to UK for a month, you either go to work or you quit. I hope you got the message

All that is accurate.

And so is the fact that they are scabs.

Denti
07-20-2017, 01:46 AM
So you're one of the Qatar scabs. Rationalize it all you want... you're a SCAB abd should be treated as such.

Nah, i do work in germany, not Qatar. And i am a union rep, however, i do know about realities of life, especially in a diverse market like europe where every country still has its own working laws, and many do not allow to refuse work if you are ordered to cover flights for another company on strike. Or even within the same company. As the pilots at easyjet discovered that tried to go on strike with no effect whatsoever as other easyjet pilots had to cover their work. Otherwise they would not only be without protection if the company wanted to fire them, they would had to pay all damages the company had due to that strike, which is of course far in excess of their salary.

Or British Airways pilots, organized in BALPA, working as cabin crew to cover flights during industrial action of their cabin crew. It did happen, it might happen again in the next downturn.

As i said, the world isn't black and white, and i certainly will not call those colleagues, that have to face certain realities, names. Sure, i would love for them to call in sick, but that is simply not possible as freely as in germany in other countries. For every sick call i have a right by law to get full payment for the next six weeks (including full overtime pay for the months before that call), and up to 9 months under my companies CLA. And yes, as long as it is a different diagnosis each time, as often as i like or have to per year. Thank god most people do not abuse that one.

How many refused to work when their pensions were slashed to bits? Or their payrate reduced onesided by the company in the last downturn? Or did you meekly go to work and carried on working for less and pennies on the dollar in pensions? Unthinkable over here, we would call that cowardice, but then, we live under different rules.

NEDude
07-20-2017, 02:51 AM
Nah, i do work in germany, not Qatar. And i am a union rep, however, i do know about realities of life, especially in a diverse market like europe where every country still has its own working laws, and many do not allow to refuse work if you are ordered to cover flights for another company on strike. Or even within the same company. As the pilots at easyjet discovered that tried to go on strike with no effect whatsoever as other easyjet pilots had to cover their work. Otherwise they would not only be without protection if the company wanted to fire them, they would had to pay all damages the company had due to that strike, which is of course far in excess of their salary.

Or British Airways pilots, organized in BALPA, working as cabin crew to cover flights during industrial action of their cabin crew. It did happen, it might happen again in the next downturn.

As i said, the world isn't black and white, and i certainly will not call those colleagues, that have to face certain realities, names. Sure, i would love for them to call in sick, but that is simply not possible as freely as in germany in other countries. For every sick call i have a right by law to get full payment for the next six weeks (including full overtime pay for the months before that call), and up to 9 months under my companies CLA. And yes, as long as it is a different diagnosis each time, as often as i like or have to per year. Thank god most people do not abuse that one.

How many refused to work when their pensions were slashed to bits? Or their payrate reduced onesided by the company in the last downturn? Or did you meekly go to work and carried on working for less and pennies on the dollar in pensions? Unthinkable over here, we would call that cowardice, but then, we live under different rules.

I think you are fighting a losing battle here. Most of the guys on this forum are ignorant to the realities of life outside of the United States. They think a 24 hour layover in London counts as experiencing other parts of the world. As I have discovered, they clearly believe everything in the aviation industry works as it does in the United States.

METO Guido
07-20-2017, 05:05 AM
I think you are fighting a losing battle here. These simpletons won't give up.Most of the guys on this forum are ignorant to the realities of life outside of the United States. I point the clueless to the realities of life. Just don't understand why it's not working.They think a 24 hour layover in London counts as experiencing other parts of the world. I've been everywhere in the world & know everything about the world.As I have discovered, they clearly believe everything in the aviation industry works as it does in the United States. I'd have to explain all this to you in Russian but the US keeps saving Europe from itself.

What's wrong with METO and Whackmaster and the like!? NEDude is simply engaging in smart and well-thought out discussion about NAI/NAS, and they are engaging in personal attacks or spread ALPA's non-evidence driven propaganda! Did the high school you guys went to not teach you how to form a proper argument?

Diggin' that high brow banter now La garbaaage? Don't recall much from HS except maybe some stink finger, puking Southern Comfort & what happened to wise guys couldn't resist jumping into other people's bidness.

Buter
08-21-2017, 11:09 PM
Do you have a source for that? Seems highly unlikely any airline would have that kind of pilot surplus and the time to train them for the cabin.

Oh, it happened. Circa 300 of (then) 3,500-ish pilots volunteered to work in the cabin during a CC strike.

Wasn't a clever move, IMHO, and you better believe our CC haven't forgot about it.

Quite ironic, then, that some of the 300 are the most offended by the Qatar leases. These leases are costing our shorthaul pilots money when their flights get subbed.

B