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View Full Version : Allegiant Engine failure in CVG


skiK2
07-20-2017, 04:14 PM
Allegiant just had an engine failure on rotation in CVG. Metal fragments all over the runway and intersecting runway. Closed 27 and 18C for the time being. Crew did a great job, from the sound of it on the radio, and they got the plane back on the ground safely.

Good job.


tyler durden
07-22-2017, 08:16 AM
Allegiant plane makes emergency landing at CVG Airport - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV (http://www.fox19.com/story/35941748/allegiant-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-cvg-airport)

Parts on the runway:eek: Classic worst case V1 cut. Kudos to the crew; hopefully our lucky streak will continue and this captain doesn't get fired for embarrassing the company (sarcasm).

Seriously, among other maintenance 'oversights' (flight controls, smoke, gear, etc) the alarming fleet-wide catastrophic engine failure rate continues unabated despite added FAA scrutiny and management's commitments to invest more in maintenance. Heads will surely roll. Oh wait, the Maintenance VP already quit and the Exec VP 'retired'.

Maintenance concerns mount almost as fast as record profits. ValuJet was a Wall Street Cinderella too.

FreshWater
07-22-2017, 09:46 AM
Allegiant plane makes emergency landing at CVG Airport - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV (http://www.fox19.com/story/35941748/allegiant-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-cvg-airport)

Parts on the runway:eek: Classic worst case V1 cut. Kudos to the crew; hopefully our lucky streak will continue and this captain doesn't get fired for embarrassing the company (sarcasm).

Seriously, among other maintenance 'oversights' (flight controls, smoke, gear, etc) the alarming fleet-wide catastrophic engine failure rate continues unabated despite added FAA scrutiny and management's commitments to invest more in maintenance. Heads will surely roll. Oh wait, the Maintenance VP already quit and the Exec VP 'retired'.

Maintenance concerns mount almost as fast as record profits. ValuJet was a Wall Street Cinderella too.

You’re right, ultimately the worst happened; got bought by swa for a stupid premium amount and loved them into the seniority list prison style. Begged Delta to buy the 717s by paying them a bonus to take them; brilliant move, decimating the ATL hub. Definitely don’t want to end up like them.

But no, really man. Do not want that to happen here. Since the contract got signed no one has left for swa.


crxpilot
07-22-2017, 10:28 AM
Allegiant plane makes emergency landing at CVG Airport - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV (http://www.fox19.com/story/35941748/allegiant-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-cvg-airport)

Parts on the runway:eek: Classic worst case V1 cut. Kudos to the crew; hopefully our lucky streak will continue and this captain doesn't get fired for embarrassing the company (sarcasm).

Seriously, among other maintenance 'oversights' (flight controls, smoke, gear, etc) the alarming fleet-wide catastrophic engine failure rate continues unabated despite added FAA scrutiny and management's commitments to invest more in maintenance. Heads will surely roll. Oh wait, the Maintenance VP already quit and the Exec VP 'retired'.

Maintenance concerns mount almost as fast as record profits. ValuJet was a Wall Street Cinderella too.

Stuff happens.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 10:47 AM
Yes it does, but some stuff is preventable. This happened because the engine ingested a huge chunk of attrition liner that had been written up for coming apart. $igned off 'within limit$'.

It's understandable that we don't want to spend too much on a retiring fleet, but safety must always be the overriding concern.

flyingdutchman1
07-22-2017, 11:03 AM
Yes it does, but some stuff is preventable. This happened because the engine ingested a huge chunk of attrition liner that had been written up for coming apart. $igned off 'within limit$'.

Boeing engineers, not Allegiant mechanics set the limits. If the attrition liner was properly measured and found to be within limits as the logbook said than blame Boeing, not Allegiant.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 11:10 AM
Not sure whether the issue was properly addressed, but given our past, I believe there's room for skepticism. It will be fully investigated so time will tell. Question: Would you put your family today on another 757 that had similar delamination? Would our mechanics or Boeing engineers?

Life and limb arguments aside, at best, our maintenance continues to roll the dice on our careers as we are left to manage what we are handed. One need look no further than the ongoing court case in FL where one of our fellow pilots was set up with yet another smoke filled cabin and subsequently terminated for doing exactly what he was trained to do. Let's not forget the knee jerked, cavalier and callous fashion by which the hasty decision was made to potentially end this man's career.

This is a very unforgiving business, we must hold our leadership accountable and demand answers from a company that has routinely taken shortcuts at our expense.

FreshWater
07-22-2017, 11:45 AM
Not sure whether the issue was properly addressed, but given our past, I believe there's room for skepticism. It will be fully investigated so time will tell. Question: Would you put your family today on another 757 that had similar delamination? Would our mechanics or Boeing engineers?

Life and limb arguments aside, at best, our maintenance continues to roll the dice on our careers as we are left to manage what we are handed. One need look no further than the ongoing court case in FL where one of our fellow pilots was set up with yet another smoke filled cabin and subsequently terminated for doing exactly what he was trained to do. This is a very unforgiving business, we must hold our leadership accountable and demand answers from a company that has routinely taken shortcuts at our expense.

Drama much? Asking industry insiders this question, is akin to asking a nurse to question the competency of a doctor they have knowledge of, whom they would avoid. Doesnít matter what we think, there are enough unsophisticated types in the world who donít know, donít care to ask.

Careers at stake? Last I heard thereís a hiring boom. Take advantage of it.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 11:53 AM
Drama much? Asking industry insiders this question, is akin to asking a nurse to question the competency of a doctor they have knowledge of, whom they would avoid. Doesnít matter what we think, there are enough unsophisticated types in the world who donít know, donít care to ask.

Careers at stake? Last I heard thereís a hiring boom. Take advantage of it.

Go tell our terminated colleague about drama. While you're at it, perhaps you can advise him about getting hired after a termination for incompetence. I'm quite sure he'd love to hear the excuses you're making on behalf of the company that carelessly tossed his career aside.

ecam
07-22-2017, 11:54 AM
I REALLY don't think it's appropriate to be having his discussion on an open forum, read by customers and the media who may take Tyler's comments out of context. The last thing this company needs is more bad press. And quoting internal memos online is NEVER a good idea. If you want to be an activist, or even if you just want to trash the company, be a man, and do it on the internal forum with your name beside it.

Bottom line: there was a maintenance related incident which the pilots acted in accordance with their training, and no one was hurt. The issue has been found and addressed. That's really all the public needs to hear, because that's all there is to this. To try and stir up drama of the past is useless to all of us.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 12:11 PM
I REALLY don't think it's appropriate to be having his discussion on an open forum, read by customers and the media who may take Tyler's comments out of context. The last thing this company needs is more bad press. And quoting internal memos online is NEVER a good idea. If you want to be an activist, or even if you just want to trash the company, be a man, and do it on the internal forum with your name beside it.

Bottom line: there was a maintenance related incident which the pilots acted in accordance with their training, and no one was hurt. The issue has been found and addressed. That's really all the public needs to hear, because that's all there is to this. To try and stir up drama of the past is useless to all of us.

Sorry ECAM, but we will have to agree to disagree. Having been here over 10 years and personally suffering the abject disregard for maintenance, I believe the past is very pertinent to the present. Too many times I have been put in jeopardy, scrutinized and questioned for maintenance concerns that turned out to be potentially serious.

I'm disappointed by the degree to which a contract gets signed and all of a sudden our maintenance concerns suddenly go away. Fact of the matter is that maintenance issues are not going away and neither is the root cause: cost.

As an ultra low-cost carrier, we must keep an eye on what is most important: the safe operation and condition of the equipment we operate. The company's lack of performance in this regard is widely documented and well known. This was just another weekly event that made the news. It's no secret.

If it solved the problem, I would be the first to advise keeping this information internal. Unfortunately, it took public scrutiny and investigation for management to finally admit to the deficiencies and shortcuts taking place in maintenance.

Improvements were taking place as the FAA stepped up it's oversight and the union was demanding answers. Now that has subsided and these issues are resurfacing. Added cause for concern is the departure of maintenance and senior leadership. Why the mass exodus?

Finally, the fact that the pilots were demanding answers and suddenly went silent after we got our money begs questions as to our true motives.

FreshWater
07-22-2017, 12:28 PM
Sorry ECAM, but we will have to agree to disagree. Having been here over 10 years and personally suffering the abject disregard for maintenance, I believe the past is very pertinent to the present. Too many times I have been put in jeopardy, scrutinized and questioned for maintenance concerns that turned out to be potentially serious.

I'm disappointed by the degree to which a contract gets signed and all of a sudden our maintenance concerns suddenly go away. Fact of the matter is that maintenance issues are not going away and neither is the root cause: cost.

As an ultra low-cost carrier, we must keep an eye on what is most important: the safe operation and condition of the equipment we operate. The company's lack of performance in this regard is widely documented and well known. This was just another weekly event that made the news. It's no secret.

If it solved the problem, I would be the first to advise keeping this information internal. Unfortunately, it took public scrutiny and investigation for management to finally admit to the deficiencies and shortcuts taking place in maintenance.

Improvements were taking place as the FAA stepped up it's oversight and the union was demanding answers. Now that has subsided and these issues are resurfacing. The fact that we were demanding answers and went silent after we got our money really bags questions.

Dude, I totally agree. Make a stand. Your next move should be patrolling the perimeter outside one of our bases convincing passengers to avoid our airline for their safety. If you save just one life, won't that be worth it?

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 12:31 PM
Dude, I totally agree. Make a stand. Your next move should be patrolling the perimeter outside one of our bases convincing passengers to avoid our airline for their safety. If you save just one life, wont that be worth it?

You make that call yet, Dude?

All about the growth/money, huh? Management much?

ecam
07-22-2017, 12:40 PM
Tyler, if you're that concerned, maybe you need to make a stand and vote with your feet. 10 years? Lots of hiring has taken place in that period of time!

But I'll say this. Blatantly violating the company's media and social media policies will quickly help you to that end.

FreshWater
07-22-2017, 12:43 PM
You make that call yet, Dude?

All about the growth/money, huh? Management much?

Really man. We are in the middle of the biggest hiring boom. If youíre still here it canít be that bad. If youíre not, why do you care.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 02:01 PM
Tyler, if you're that concerned, maybe you need to make a stand and vote with your feet. 10 years? Lots of hiring has taken place in that period of time!

But I'll say this. Blatantly violating the company's media and social media policies will quickly help you to that end.

Ha...yes, so predictable. Like a true management disciple, wait for it....first rule: if logic fails, try CENSORSHIP! Second rule: "If you don't like it here, leave!"

Same textbook approaches were used against the guys that stuck their necks out trying to improve this place and secure the contract you now enjoy. Given your argument, we would still be topped out at the $68/hour we were at when I got here.

I'm aware of the company's policies, what is legal and what is not. I'm also aware of what is permissible and what is the purpose of this forum, which is the open exchange of opinions/ideas, not censorship because someone doesn't like the message. In case you're not aware, this thread referenced an incident being covered by the MEDIA. Perhaps you should censor them too. Your implied threats of get me fired won't cause me to lose any sleep. Knock yourself out.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 02:41 PM
Really man. We are in the middle of the biggest hiring boom. If you’re still here it can’t be that bad. If you’re not, why do you care.

Nice try. Been here Waaay too long to start over jerkin' gear cuz some new Johnny-Come-Lately coolaid sippers tell me to love it or lump it. Too much blood sweat and tears helping get this place from 8 airplanes to where we are now.

Loyalty is not jumping off the cliff like sheep. It involves confrontation, disagreement, often discomfort and risk. I will take a bullet for this pilot group as i have many times. I have confronted management directly and will continue to do so if it means avoiding a disaster that we have narrowly averted so many times.

To your previous question, I don't need to stand outside the fence and tell the public anything, the company aires its laundry through the weekly press coverage of incident after incident.

dutch rudder
07-22-2017, 03:54 PM
Ha...yes, so predictable. Like a true management disciple...

...Same textbook approaches were used against the guys that stuck their necks out trying to improve this place and secure the contract you now enjoy. Given your argument, we would still be topped out at the $68/hour we were at when I got here...

...Been here Waaay too long to start over jerkin' gear cuz some new Johnny-Come-Lately coolaid sippers tell me to love it or lump it

.

Ha... yes, so predictable. Like a true, bitter, ol' G4 guy. Just because you've been here "way too long to start over" is no excuse stay. If you're in jeopardy here, you should leave. SWA, maybe?

FreshWater
07-22-2017, 04:18 PM
If you're in jeopardy here, you should leave. SWA, maybe?

Swa, surely you joke. No one sells themselves that cheaply no mo. The thought of ending my career in the right seat of a 72 makes me wince. Dal, ual, fdx or ups fo sho. If I were so inclined.

dutch rudder
07-22-2017, 04:50 PM
Swa, surely you joke. No one sells themselves that cheaply no mo. The thought of ending my career in the right seat of a 72 makes me wince. Dal, ual, fdx or ups fo sho. If I were so inclined.

I referenced SWA because durden appears on their threads often.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 04:58 PM
Swa, surely you joke. No one sells themselves that cheaply no mo. The thought of ending my career in the right seat of a 72 makes me wince. Dal, ual, fdx or ups fo sho. If I were so inclined.

Wouldn't go to those either. I'd hang it up, last of 5 uniforms.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 05:16 PM
Ha... yes, so predictable. Like a true, bitter, ol' G4 guy. Just because you've been here "way too long to start over" is no excuse stay. If you're in jeopardy here, you should leave. SWA, maybe?

Another invitation to leave :rolleyes:.

Hardly. Good company with great people, some of which are very close friends and 1 family member, but the SW ship sailed 20 years ago and my posts are not indicative of someone wanting to be there. Not interested in jerking gear for the rest of my career, being a 5 digit number there or anywhere else.

Staying here, still quite passionate about our company.

hyde
07-22-2017, 06:15 PM
Another invitation to leave :rolleyes:.

Hardly. Good company with great people, some of which are very close friends and 1 family member, but the SW ship sailed 20 years ago and my posts are not indicative of someone wanting to be there. Not interested in jerking gear for the rest of my career, being a 5 digit number there or anywhere else.

Staying here, still quite passionate about our company.

Come on bro. We all stopped listening and checked the lastest seniority list when you said you've been here 10 years and you are unhappy.

tyler durden
07-22-2017, 07:33 PM
Come on bro. We all stopped listening and checked the lastest seniority list when you said you've been here 10 years and you are unhappy.

Unhappy?? Lol. My own bed every night with a shiny new contract, I won't be unhappy unless I'm standing in an another unemployment line. Hoping to avoid that, ergo this thread.

Never meant to **** on the parade, just concerned about the trends. Peace out.

ecam
07-22-2017, 10:35 PM
Ha...yes, so predictable. Like a true management disciple, wait for it....first rule: if logic fails, try CENSORSHIP! Second rule: "If you don't like it here, leave!"

Same textbook approaches were used against the guys that stuck their necks out trying to improve this place and secure the contract you now enjoy. Given your argument, we would still be topped out at the $68/hour we were at when I got here.

I'm aware of the company's policies, what is legal and what is not. I'm also aware of what is permissible and what is the purpose of this forum, which is the open exchange of opinions/ideas, not censorship because someone doesn't like the message. In case you're not aware, this thread referenced an incident being covered by the MEDIA. Perhaps you should censor them too. Your implied threats of get me fired won't cause me to lose any sleep. Knock yourself out.

Nah, I'm no management shill, and I'm not trying to get you fired. However I see no value in you airing dirty laundry in public. You practically quoted an internal FYI memo about this incident then went on to rant how in your opinion, our airline is unsafe. That's a pretty stupid thing to do if you want to keep having a company to work for. I'm no shill, but I love my job and I intend to stay here too. So let's not burn the house down trying to renovate it. Go back the the fb page where you usually do your complaining and we will be happy to discuss it with you there. Not here for the media and passengers. That's not censorship, it's common sense.

And for the record: I never take an unsafe airplane and my family absolutely flies Allegiant. All airlines have incidents. Some airlines incidents make the news more than others do. Some reporters just need something to write about. All of the big three legacy airlines have incidents every day too.

Hotel Pen
07-23-2017, 06:20 AM
The mx at G4 is worse than at other comparable airlines. Why is Tyler the only one that wants to admit this and why is everyone else acting like everything is fine. I'm not familiar with what happened in CVG, but it sounds like SOP for Allegiant mx: "put it on a number." They try to use paper work, often lying (ie they MEL terrain system when the TCAS is what is actually INOP), to fix everything, instead of actually fixing the plane. The similarities with Value Jet are disturbing. How many near misses does G4 need to have? Eventually something bad will happen.

"I'm not overweight, but could I have a seat belt extender please?"

disco inferno
07-23-2017, 07:25 AM
The mx at G4 is worse than at other comparable airlines. Why is Tyler the only one that wants to admit this and why is everyone else acting like everything is fine. I'm not familiar with what happened in CVG, but it sounds like SOP for Allegiant mx: "put it on a number." They try to use paper work, often lying (ie they MEL terrain system when the TCAS is what is actually INOP), to fix everything, instead of actually fixing the plane. The similarities with Value Jet are disturbing. How many near misses does G4 need to have? Eventually something bad will happen.

"I'm not overweight, but could I have a seat belt extender please?"
Hi Tyler. I like your other screen name.

tyler durden
07-23-2017, 07:37 AM
Go back the the fb page where you usually do your complaining and we will be happy to discuss it with you there.

"...we"? Who's "we"??

Censoring, threatening, now you speak for others?? If you're not management (you're suited for it), you should be concerned about your job. A lot of guys have been fired around here for things 'other airlines' would never have fired them for. Not sure how long you've been here, but one base lost 8 (1/3) of their captains in a span of a few years :eek: Do you see 'other airlines' firing their pilots for taking the safe approach by evacuating a cabin AS THEY WERE TRAINED? This was a common maintenance problem that one of OUR OWN was hung out to dry with and then armchair QB'd and callously fired for taking the appropriate action. It bothers me how selfishly we've forgotten that an injury to one is an injury to all.

tyler durden
07-23-2017, 07:47 AM
Hi Tyler. I like your other screen name.

Insinuation being that I'm the only one that could possibly hold this opinion and therefor create other screen names to agree with myself? If that's the case, I guess I like your other one's too. ECAM? Apparently he speaks for others, maybe you're two of the same.

So much for dialogue and open discussion.

I hope Maury is held criminally liable when a serious accident finally occurs. I hope our latest FAA audit is more than optics.

To add to that, we won't likely get a contract any time soon. We are too far apart from the company to reach an agreement. I'm 99.9% sure it will take a strike to get a contract. Since they recently TA'd low hanging fruit in negotiations, I expect the company can drag this process out for at least another year or two.

If you come here, get your free type and move on as fast as you can. I have serious reservations about the long term prospects of Allegiant.

My my how quickly opinions change. Contract got your tongue?

Hotel Pen
07-23-2017, 08:19 AM
Hi Tyler. I like your other screen name.

Disco, still up to your old tricks? I have no idea who Tyler is. I don't work at Allegiant anymore, but I hope things go well for them as I know a lot of good people who still work there. But, nobody wins if there is a crash, and while not a sure thing, the odds of having a crash are higher with sub standard mx practices that are still going on at G4.

Keep your head in the sand though bro, by all means, reality is a tough sandwich to bite into.

tyler durden
07-23-2017, 09:00 AM
I see no value in you airing dirty laundry in public.

Blatantly violating the company's media and social media policies will quickly help you to that end.

I guess posts alleging "mysterious" resignations of executive leadership don't count as "blatant violations of social media policies"?

Yeah well I already get to eat my words. Our COO mysteriously resigned today. Maybe a buyout/merger IS eminent.

Or encouraging other company's pilots to violate a court ordered injunction?

Wow, the Ford & Harrison trolling is strong here! That's right in the universal F&H negotiations playbook. "Go on pilot forums impersonating line pilots who just want to be reasonable, and lower everyone's expectations". Don't fall for it guys! Stand strong, those of us at other airlines are counting on you all! You've got them by the short hairs now, the injunction is their first cry of uncle. Keep twisting. You're almost there.

Management and their attorneys creating new screen names over and over to troll or bait you guys on the message boards means you're winning. Ignore these fools and stand strong. Nobody can force you to work on a day off. Let management solve their own problems! Put your phone on do not disturb on days off!

No, not a management troll. Pilot for another airline (non alpa) that wants to see you guys win. They are welcome to try and come after me, lol. But thanks for the baseless attack… :rolleyes:

Packrat
07-23-2017, 09:09 AM
The bottom line is your engine shutdown/failure rate is abysmal. Even though there has been press coverage (minor) people don't pay attention until a load of passengers get killed.

The only thing that is saving "new ValuJet" is the skill of your pilots. If I was there, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to defend the maintenance practices of your airline.

tyler durden
07-23-2017, 10:59 AM
Come on bro. We all stopped listening and checked the lastest seniority list when you said you've been here 10 years and you are unhappy.

"We all..??" Another one? Mouse in your pocket? Air Force buddies? Cartel? Junta? lol

tyler durden
07-23-2017, 11:01 AM
The bottom line is your engine shutdown/failure rate is abysmal. Even though there has been press coverage (minor) people don't pay attention until a load of passengers get killed.

The only thing that is saving "new ValuJet" is the skill of your pilots. If I was there, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to defend the maintenance practices of your airline.

That comment will get you labelled as another one of my alter egos.

ecam
07-23-2017, 09:52 PM
I guess posts alleging "mysterious" resignations of executive leadership don't count as "blatant violations of social media policies"?



Or encouraging other company's pilots to violate a court ordered injunction?

You've gone off the deep end. Take a deep breath there, "Tyler".

I know it's hard for you. HNL closes and you and your wife have to come back the the mainland. Then all these senior TDYs keep bumping you out of the sweet lines you're entitled to. I know. We all hear about it. You do carry a lot of water for this pilot group, but sometimes you just take it a little too far. I'm not management, but we both know they are reading this.

I'll say it again. Your personal crusade aside, it's very dumb to be scaring our customers away and fueling the media hype. You aren't going to affect change by dragging us all through the mud. The contract fight is over. We won. Now go fly your plane and go to the beach. Quit your constant whining here and in the fb page. Quit attacking everyone who speaks against you. It's way beyond old. We all have our opinions.

ecam
07-24-2017, 08:27 AM
The bottom line is your engine shutdown/failure rate is abysmal. Even though there has been press coverage (minor) people don't pay attention until a load of passengers get killed.

The only thing that is saving "new ValuJet" is the skill of your pilots. If I was there, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to defend the maintenance practices of your airline.

Oh, well the mighty alaska big mouth has spoken, so i guess that's that. ;)

I'm thinking that since you don't work here, you have the same sensationalized information available that the general public does, so you probably don't need to weigh in on what you think our issue is any more than the passenger in 28D does.

I've read that dramatic Tampa Bay Times article too, but really, we have very few engine failures/shutdowns fleet wide. And most of the incidents we have are on planes that are being retired this year and are for non engine issues. There's room for improvement, but our maintenance oversight and reliability have gotten 1000% better here over the last year.

But it's pretty easy to throw rocks from across the street isn't it? By all means, go ahead. Let's not talk about Angle Lake's antics.

dutch rudder
07-24-2017, 12:06 PM
The mx at G4 is worse than at other comparable airlines. Why is Tyler the only one that wants to admit this and why is everyone else acting like everything is fine.

The problem isnít with Tyler admitting half our fleet is getting old and engine failures are bad. The problem, it appears, is with his bias and inability to entertain any other narrative. We do not deny the issue, some choose to look at it objectively and come to a different conclusion. If everyone else is acting like it's fine, maybe it is actually fine.

You state, ďThe mx at G4 is worse than comparable airlines.Ē Ok, what other comparable airline operates 45ish MD80s that comprise 50% of their fleet? NONE. We are the only one! We will be less reliable by default. As stated in an earlier post, ďthe three airlines that have the highest numbers of unscheduled landingsÖ ALL MD80 OPERATORS. If American operated a fleet comprised of 56% old MD80ís, they would top this list!Ē If I remember correctly, AA went through a bunch of 80 shutdowns/failures around 2009, three in one week at one point. My last airline had a larger, younger fleet and mx was far worse.

Old MD80 with 1960s engine design + several captains in the left seat for the first time = higher number of unwarranted emergency declarations, diversions, and bad press. I have experienced this first hand.

They try to use paper work, often lying (ie they MEL terrain system when the TCAS is what is actually INOP), to fix everything, instead of actually fixing the plane.

Really, a mechanic canít make a mistake? Címon! The guys who lie about that crap are few and hopefully being reported by us. MEL's can be frustrating, but again, we are flying old MD80s. It comes with the territory, especially now since they are accelerating the retirements.

Eventually something bad will happen.

Eventually something bad always happens.

tyler durden
07-24-2017, 01:11 PM
You've gone off the deep end. Take a deep breath there, "Tyler".

I know it's hard for you. HNL closes and you and your wife have to come back the the mainland. Then all these senior TDYs keep bumping you out of the sweet lines you're entitled to. I know. We all hear about it. You do carry a lot of water for this pilot group, but sometimes you just take it a little too far. I'm not management, but we both know they are reading this.

I'll say it again. Your personal crusade aside, it's very dumb to be scaring our customers away and fueling the media hype. You aren't going to affect change by dragging us all through the mud. The contract fight is over. We won. Now go fly your plane and go to the beach. Quit your constant whining here and in the fb page. Quit attacking everyone who speaks against you. It's way beyond old. We all have our opinions.


Guess again Sherlock. While you're at it , you might consider apologizing to whoever you think you just outed. Hopefully during your 'personal crusade' you haven't turned him in for violating social media policies yet. Who's looking dumb now?

Seriously, the slanderous and indiscriminate way by which you wield your self-appointed authority, speaking on behalf of others ("come to the FB page, then 'WE' will be willing to discuss") intimidating (Social Media policies), threatening (implied termination) and (wrongly) exposing those you believe to be deserving of your censure speaks volumes.

"Contract fight is over, we won". Really?? So all those maintenance reports had nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with money, huh? I wondered why it got so quiet. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry, but having suffered a couple of sudden closures I tend to concern myself about the long term.

And read the papers, G4 doesn't need any help from concerned pilots to scare the customers. Not that our passengers read APC anyway. LOL

tyler durden
07-24-2017, 02:58 PM
The problem isnít with Tyler admitting half our fleet is getting old and engine failures are bad. The problem, it appears, is with his bias and inability to entertain any other narrative. We do not deny the issue, some choose to look at it objectively and come to a different conclusion. If everyone else is acting like it's fine, maybe it is actually fine.

Always respected your balanced opinion Dutch, still do. I have stood silent on the sidelines for a long time, hoping the new management changes and philosophies were trending in the right direction. For a while, they were. But the recent senior management revolving door, including maintenance, and what appears to be a return to the old, has brought a renewed sense of concern. I had great faith in JB and was very disappointed at his "retirement". I believe we all hope for the same end result, and may passionately argue our perspectives from time to time, but the collective goals are always the same, ie. the safety/success of our company and the welfare of our customers and crews

sACKtis
07-24-2017, 03:03 PM
The bottom line is your engine shutdown/failure rate is abysmal. Even though there has been press coverage (minor) people don't pay attention until a load of passengers get killed.

The only thing that is saving "new ValuJet" is the skill of your pilots. If I was there, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to defend the maintenance practices of your airline.

The pilots got a pay raise and it made them forget about the crappy MX. Shows how much regard they have for pax safety :rolleyes:

dutch rudder
07-24-2017, 04:31 PM
The pilots got a pay raise and it made them forget about the crappy MX. Shows how much regard they have for pax safety :rolleyes:

Haha, stop wasting your time here. Go finish you applications to Swift and Elite.

ecam
07-25-2017, 09:00 AM
"Tyler Durden" should know what the first rule of Fight Club isÖ :rolleyes:

grnclvrs
07-25-2017, 09:13 AM
"Tyler Durden" should know what the first rule of Fight Club isÖ :rolleyes:



Maybe he does crossfit.

ecam
07-25-2017, 09:28 AM
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/visual_fight_01-04162016.jpg

TalkTurkey
08-02-2017, 10:09 AM
Allegiant just had an engine failure on rotation in CVG. Metal fragments all over the runway and intersecting runway. Closed 27 and 18C for the time being. Crew did a great job, from the sound of it on the radio, and they got the plane back on the ground safely.

Good job.


Par for the course when comparing comparable NTSB data. The crews do fantastic and I commend them for subjecting to such reactive management tactics. That's 2 for CVG this year. WTG.



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