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TheFly
08-08-2017, 04:51 AM
Pilotless planes could save airlines billions. But would anyone fly? - Aug. 7, 2017 (http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/07/technology/business/pilotless-planes-passengers/index.html?category=tech-business)

Taking pilots out of the cockpit could save airlines billions. But would anyone buy a ticket?
The aviation industry could save $35 billion a year by moving to pilotless planes, according to a new report from UBS. Just one problem: The same report warns that only 17% of travelers are willing to fly without a pilot.
UBS said that the technology required to operate remote-controlled planes could appear by 2025. Further advances beyond 2030 might result in automated business jets and helicopters, and finally commercial aircraft without pilots. [read more]


Subieguy14
08-08-2017, 11:43 AM
I could never see there being fully automated planes. There will always be a pilot, even with all these people talking about cargo companies using fully automated planes, What happens if something goes wrong the computer cant fix and the plane ends up in a neighborhood instead of a grass field 2 miles the other way?

C130driver
08-08-2017, 11:48 AM
I could never see there being fully automated planes. There will always be a pilot, even with all these people talking about cargo companies using fully automated planes, What happens if something goes wrong the computer cant fix and the plane ends up in a neighborhood instead of a grass field 2 miles the other way?

This is one of the questions no advocate of "pilotless" planes can answer.


TheFly
08-08-2017, 01:02 PM
Agreed and agreed. However, the fact that airlines and aircraft manufacturers are pursuing it with vigor means a lot.

Subieguy14
08-08-2017, 03:25 PM
I guess in CEO's eyes, money is more important than people.....:rolleyes:

C130driver
08-09-2017, 05:11 AM
Agreed and agreed. However, the fact that airlines and aircraft manufacturers are pursuing it with vigor means a lot.

Which airlines are persuing it? Last time I checked every Airbus and Boeing ordered has 2 pilots in their cockpits. We are still flying 40 year old technology, and there has been no talk of the next Boeing or Airbus having less than 2 pilots.

TheFly
08-09-2017, 05:33 AM
Which airlines are persuing it? Last time I checked every Airbus and Boeing ordered has 2 pilots in their cockpits. We are still flying 40 year old technology, and there has been no talk of the next Boeing or Airbus having less than 2 pilots.

When have commercial aircraft manufacturers not based their products on what the airlines want? Previous articles have mentioned it, but very quietly.

360nki
08-09-2017, 11:05 PM
What ever supposed savings could be made by flying without pilots would soon be lost by a downfall in cash flow due to the theoretical 83% of people who would choose not to fly on a pilotless plane...Also unlikely that much of the savings from having no pilots would result in a dramatically lower ticket price.

Might see single pilot airliners at some stage, the job might change a bit, but i wouldn't be too worried of a pilotless jet if i was in the shoes of a new pilot starting out today.

With all the talk by the techies that 50% of jobs or whatever the number will be replaced by robots in the next however many of years. It'd be more likely that pilots and airline staff would lose to jobs to airline revenue decreasing due to mass unemployment-no disposable income for holidays/airline tickets- layoffs at the airlines, which then comes around full circle with the question being asked- whats the point of automating most jobs anyway when people end up having less and eventually no money to spend?.

badflaps
08-10-2017, 07:06 AM
CNN said yesterday that a B1B could fly as high as 30,000 ft. so there is that.

Awesome Wells
08-13-2017, 01:30 PM
I'm a bit late to the party on this thread.

The public will go wherever the cheapest flights are. They'll soon forget about the lack of pilots up front if it saves them a few dollars.

Of course the irony of the CNN article is that pilotless aircraft won't be cheaper. Why are Airbus and Boeing still using a lot of 60s and 70s technology on their aircraft? The answer is that it is prohibitively expensive to get the new technology through the regulators approval processes.

Then there is the issue of liability. Pilotless aircraft are every ambulance chasing lawyer's wet dream. Us pilots are quite handy scapegoats when an aircraft goes down in the ocean, but what if the aircraft is pilotless? Who takes the wrap then? The media and lawyers want a scalp when there is an air crash, so they'll come after airline management or the aircraft manufacturer management.

I think what we are more likely to see is much greater levels of automation, overseen by pilots on ever decreasing wages, and receiving less and less training.

Awesome Wells
08-14-2017, 05:51 AM
This isn't quite the same as pilotless flights on a day to day basis, but this article from 2006 makes for interesting reading:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/diagrams-boeing-patents-anti-terrorism-auto-land-system-for-hijacked-210869/

Boeing last week received a US patent for a system that, once activated, removes all control from pilots to automatically return a commercial airliner to a predetermined landing location.

“Once the automatic control system provided by the present invention is initiated, no one on board the air vehicle is capable controlling the flight to the air vehicle, such that it would be useless for anyone to threaten violence in order to gain control the air vehicle.”


Have any of you folks heard about this?

It seems Honeywell has been working on a similar system with Airbus.
https://www.wired.com/2003/08/flying-safety-put-on-auto-pilot/

kevbo
08-14-2017, 07:39 PM
CNN said yesterday that a B1B could fly as high as 30,000 ft. so there is that.. Can't be true, thats even higher than geese.

TheFly
08-15-2017, 06:41 AM
This isn't quite the same as pilotless flights on a day to day basis, but this article from 2006 makes for interesting reading:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/diagrams-boeing-patents-anti-terrorism-auto-land-system-for-hijacked-210869/





Have any of you folks heard about this?

It seems Honeywell has been working on a similar system with Airbus.
https://www.wired.com/2003/08/flying-safety-put-on-auto-pilot/

Wow, 2006! Never heard of that until now!

C130driver
08-15-2017, 08:43 AM
I'm a bit late to the party on this thread.

The public will go wherever the cheapest flights are. They'll soon forget about the lack of pilots up front if it saves them a few dollars.

Of course the irony of the CNN article is that pilotless aircraft won't be cheaper. Why are Airbus and Boeing still using a lot of 60s and 70s technology on their aircraft? The answer is that it is prohibitively expensive to get the new technology through the regulators approval processes.

Then there is the issue of liability. Pilotless aircraft are every ambulance chasing lawyer's wet dream. Us pilots are quite handy scapegoats when an aircraft goes down in the ocean, but what if the aircraft is pilotless? Who takes the wrap then? The media and lawyers want a scalp when there is an air crash, so they'll come after airline management or the aircraft manufacturer management.

I think what we are more likely to see is much greater levels of automation, overseen by pilots on ever decreasing wages, and receiving less and less training.

That all sounds great, until people start crashing and dying in airplanes- and believe me that will happen if you start to remove the pilot from the plane. Will to survive > will to make money ;)

Taco280AI
08-15-2017, 04:36 PM
What if the "system" controlling them goes down?

What if it is hacked?

What if there is some sort of EP that isn't cut and dry, that a person needs to decide?

Just some of the things I'd wonder about

CrimsonEclipse
08-16-2017, 08:23 PM
What happens if something goes wrong the computer cant fix and the plane ends up in a neighborhood instead of a grass field 2 miles the other way?

Answer: people will die

What happens when a pilot can't fix the plane and it ends up in a neighborhood instead of a grass field 2 miles away

Answer: people will die

What happens when automated airplanes have 90% fewer accidents than manned airplanes.

Answer: They will dominate the industry.



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