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View Full Version : A300 vs 757/767 domestic


FogSkier
08-10-2017, 01:52 PM
Greetings,

I'm a brown hopeful and have gleaned a lot from this board and from friends about the life on pretty much every fleet besides the 75 SDF and A300.

Is there anyone who can give some insight on the pros/cons of each fleet?

What I really want to know is which fleet has a higher percentage of commutable lines( week on week off with deadheads) and which one would likely have faster progression.....ie which one will have more jumpers on the next system bid.

Thanks for the help.


Bockrain
08-10-2017, 03:04 PM
Greetings,

I'm a brown hopeful and have gleaned a lot from this board and from friends about the life on pretty much every fleet besides the 75 SDF and A300.

Is there anyone who can give some insight on the pros/cons of each fleet?

What I really want to know is which fleet has a higher percentage of commutable lines( week on week off with deadheads) and which one would likely have faster progression.....ie which one will have more jumpers on the next system bid.

Thanks for the help.

Airbus vs. Boeing..... Are you kidding me? BOEING... END of discussion.

If it aint Boeing, I aint going.

FTFF
08-10-2017, 05:59 PM
Ain't going to learn how to punctuate or ain't going to eventually feel a little stupid regurgitating some marketing slogan?

"Its [ain't] usage is often highly stigmatized, and it can be used by the general public as a marker of low socio-economic or regional status or education level. Its use is generally considered non-standard by dictionaries and style guides except when used for rhetorical effect." - Ain't by Wikipedia.

From the latest bid package:

A300 has: mostly domestic, bunch of Mexico overnights, San Juan, Canada (Calg, Montreal, Hamilton, TO)

11 turn lines (3x {4 on 3 off} with a 10 day break intermixed per 4 weeks).
40 lines of relatively clean week on/off
30 muddy week on/off
11 lines of 5 day trip combos something like: 5 on, 2 off, repeat, then 10 days off, then 5 on, 9 off, then 3 rounds of 5 on 2 off. *** per 8 week bid window = 2x 4 week pay windows)
40 lines of base trips and base trip like lines (just a mix of trips lengths and days off).
30 VTO's
13 night reserve (A)
10 day reserve (B)
2 airport standby lines.
Senority: 225 total FO's, first 14' hire bidding 137.

76/76 domestic has:

26 turn lines (bunch of clean but a bunch with days off scattered around)
65 lines relatively clean week on off
10 lines with 2 week on/off variants*
10 lines mixed week on/off and 2 weeks on/off.*
*These are referring to 14 day work blocks on a particular line.
10 lines base trip like
19 lines of base trips (woof)
34 VTO's
16 night reserve (A)
8 day reserves (B)
2 C's reserve (same as bus)
2 SDF airport standby lines, 2 RFD, 2 PHL
Senority: 222 total FO's, 1st 14' hire bidding at 136


Just eyeballing it, the 75/76 looks more commutable, has the option to transition over to the Z (intl) with relative ease, and it's a Boeing, whatever the F that implies.

Just for reference:

Z (75/76 international arm):
284 FO's, first 14' hire bidding 202 (note: from the Aug 14' class; no one senior bid onto fleet).

MD (SDF):
202 total FO's, first 14' hire at position 150.

747:
190 FO's, first 15' hire (no 2014 guys) @ 166. Only 2 15' hires. Last 22 on list all 2017 hires.

ANC MD11:
97 FO's, 1st 17' FO bidding 68 (no 14-16' hires).

ONT 75/76:

106 FO's, 14' hire at position 74.

MIA 75/76:

88 total FO's. 14' hire at position 71.



Hope this helps. Best to ask one of your buds to flip you a PDF bid pack of whatever bid/ fleet you are interested in so you can have a look.


CactusCrew
08-10-2017, 06:13 PM
FTFF certainly covered the QOL items in detail.

I do not have front seat experience in the Airbus, but it certainly looks more comfortable than our B757s.

Any Bus Drivers, especially ones that also have Boeing light twin time care to chime in ?

The B757 RR is probably my favorite airliner to fly. Just not for more than an 2 hours a leg.

BoilerUP
08-10-2017, 06:24 PM
Generally speaking, FOs tend to bid off the Bus...not onto it. When they go off the Bus, it typically is to MD or Z. The upper quarter of the Bus FO list is a bit more senior than the upper quarter of SDF 757 FOs. After last December's vacancy bid, the majority of vacancies for 2017 hires were on the Airbus (50+ out of 301, IIRC).

The 757 does more coast-to-coast night sort flying, along the lines of BWI-SDF-MHR (just one of 'em) then the reverse the following night. Worst the Bus seems to have like that is ORD-SDF-BUR/LAS.

You're gonna have to have some decent seniority on either fleet before you could regularly hold week on/off, especially with commercial deadheads to start & end a trip; you could very well have luck trading into them or snagging them via VTO.

FTFF
08-10-2017, 06:27 PM
FWIW...

Texted a 14' hire bus driver why he stayed on the bus:

Didn't want to go thru long term training event,
Only one plane to have to know,
Scheduling can't revise you as easily,
Bus crews are cooler...
Trips are similar.

FogSkier
08-10-2017, 08:32 PM
Thanks for the help.

Are the Reserve lines 14 on 14 off or shorter blocks in these categories?

FTFF
08-10-2017, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the help.

Are the Reserve lines 14 on 14 off or shorter blocks in these categories?

Meant to comment on that but got lost in the other details. Here it is:

75/76 SDF domestic:

(A) or midnight to noon reserve:
10 lines of mixed 3, 4, 5, 6 on with 3-6 days off in between blocks. Line 186 for example starting on Sept 10th is 2 off, 4 on, 3 off, 4 on, 4 off, 3 on, 4 off, 3 on, 3 off, 4 on, 3 off, 4 on, 4 off, 3 on, 4 off, 3 on, 1 off. *for the 8 week bid window.
2 lines of 14/on off pure.
5 lines of week on off but the days vary a little from 5 days to 7. And these are on the shiftable lines (can change the call window a bit for the 4 week block).
(B) or noon to midnight reserve call, same vibe.

The bus looks almost the same as the 75/76.

The SDF MD is nothing but 2 week on/off for all reserve types,

The 75/76 Z is like the MD but has a couple of week on/off reserve lines intermixed.

FogSkier
08-10-2017, 09:17 PM
Egads, those R lines are ugly for a commuter.

nightrider
08-11-2017, 03:15 AM
Avoid the 757 at all cost, unless you enjoy going to the west coast every other night, the airbus does very little of that.

BoilerUP
08-11-2017, 03:24 AM
Where would you be commuting from? That might help steer toward a "better" possibility.

Commuting to RSVA (midnight-noon) is difficult because you really can't jumpseat online into reserve - they can call you at 00:00:01 and if you don't answer because you are in flight, that's a Unable To Contact and a BIG deal as a probie. The company considers being out of position for reserve to be stealing - don't do it, that and lying are two things that will get you fired.

In our current bid, the bottom four Bus FOs got reserve - bottom three were 'short block' (5/4/5 or 4/6/4) and the 4th from the bottom got four blocks of 4/3/3/4 (last four of the first pay period combined with the first four of the second for 8 days on). The very last pure week on/off line went 15 from the bottom, and the next one 26 from the bottom.

Here's the upside - hiring is going strong and is projected strong into 2018, so uber-juniority shouldn't last more than one, possibly two bid periods once released to the line.

767pilot
08-11-2017, 05:57 AM
Just flew with a guy in Z that was hired in March and had a reserve move up line. Not bad.

Swedish Blender
08-11-2017, 12:37 PM
Any Bus Drivers, especially ones that also have Boeing light twin time care to chime in

Flown both, would not go back to the Bus.

The 75/76 does go to the west coast but those are usually 2 leg nights. I had more multiple leg nights on the Bus and saw a lot of Monterrey, Mexico. Plus, just didn't care for the Bus but that's just personal opinion.

FogSkier
08-11-2017, 02:20 PM
I would be out of GEG.

ONT would be best but that's only 1 shot.

My thought would be if I can't have ONT my best choice would be something with a 2 week R block......which means no bus.

However, I need an interview and a job offer to bring this beyond academics.

Bockrain
08-11-2017, 02:23 PM
I would be out of GEG.

ONT would be best but that's only 1 shot.

My thought would be if I can't have ONT my best choice would be something with a 2 week R block......which means no bus.

However, I need an interview and a job offer to bring this beyond academics.

Would you take the job if they gave you a MIA slot?

FogSkier
08-11-2017, 02:28 PM
Of course.

jungle driver
08-11-2017, 04:52 PM
Is there a way for a non-UPS guy to get their hands on a bid packet just to see what they different fleets look like? I know that SDF-Z does both domestic and international, what % of each do they do?

767pilot
08-11-2017, 08:12 PM
Is there a way for a non-UPS guy to get their hands on a bid packet just to see what they different fleets look like? I know that SDF-Z does both domestic and international, what % of each do they do?

Check your pm. I think Z can contractually do 10% domestic

Brown Boeing FO
08-12-2017, 03:28 AM
The 757 does more coast-to-coast night sort flying, along the lines of BWI-SDF-MHR (just one of 'em) then the reverse the following night. Worst the Bus seems to have like that is ORD-SDF-BUR/LAS.



Avoid the 757 at all cost, unless you enjoy going to the west coast every other night, the airbus does very little of that.


Probably the "worst" night on the Bus is BUF SDF LBB ELP, called fatigued on it when it went sideways. BUR/LAS is tough, especially in the winter with the headwinds when the semis on the highway are passing you! :-) Funny part is I'm almost half way up the list and I usually can't hold those trips. I'd take a DTW SDF LIT SHV any time, yes it is three legs but to me that easier than the long single leg.

You're gonna have to have some decent seniority on either fleet before you could regularly hold week on/off, especially with commercial deadheads to start & end a trip; you could very well have luck trading into them or snagging them via VTO.


Wow times have changed, I was one from the bottom for about a year in 2014 and I've never had reserve or a BTL. Agree on the seniority, I'm nearing half way up the list and the "good" trips are still senior to me!

As for the Airbus vs Boeing, this Bus has a yoke, hand flies very nicely, and I don't have a jumpseater's knees in my back (or one drooling on the Captain's head), headrests on the seats, and bag storage abounds. Hell, we even each have our own garbage can! For ergonomics the A300 gets an A. The FMC is cranky, no doubt about it but I need something to keep me engaged at night and waiting for that thing to show me it's latest trick does the job just fine.

My general comment about Worker's Paradise is you find what works for you and stay there. This works for me, I get the days off I want and it makes life good. One of our greatest benefits is that you don't have to chase fleet size for paycheck size.

When I was on the Whale my wife always asked "when are you coming home?" After about 18 months on the A300 she started asking "when are you leaving?" :-D

Hello Im Eric
08-15-2017, 05:23 PM
Airbus vs. Boeing..... Are you kidding me? BOEING... END of discussion.

If it aint Boeing, I aint going.

Probably never touched an airbus. typical

Ray Kinsella
08-15-2017, 07:31 PM
Bus is far superior to 75 domestic flying. Comfort, simplicity, and ease. Cruise North America at .78 in style on the A300.

Brown Boeing FO
08-15-2017, 07:34 PM
Probably never touched an airbus. typical

Yep, but I don't even worry about it, more fleet seniority for those of us that know.

Bus is far superior to 75 domestic flying. Comfort, simplicity, and ease. Cruise North America at .78 in style on the A300.

Agreed, low and slow is the way to go.