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View Full Version : New to Corporate Flying


Liberty Pilot
08-15-2017, 07:48 PM
Hello,

It looks as if I may have the opportunity sometime soon of moving from flight instructing to flying CJ's and potentially a King Air aswell.

As someone who is knew to 91/135 flying and also new to anything that can go faster than 120 kts I am seeking knowledge from the almighty APC council.

For those veterans and newer pilots as well, what is something that you would tell a newbie that you wished you had known when you were starting out?

All responses are appreciated!


galaxy flyer
08-16-2017, 06:04 AM
Learn the FMS, forwards and backwards

Learn some FAR 25 performance, it's a subject poorly or perfunctorily taught at schools. Typically, last afternoon after the free pasta lunch.

Stay ahead of the plane, initially the speed difference is daunting.

Figure out the pay and expenses program.

GF

RI830
08-16-2017, 06:20 AM
Welcome to the above 250kts and FL250 club!

Just remember that when things start to speed up.....you can always slow her back! It's ok to slow her back to 180-200 kts to be sure your staying on pace.
Know the box, know the systems and try to be three steps ahead mentally.
As GF told me once, if you wanna go fast....go slow.


Mink
08-16-2017, 08:08 AM
In addition to the above excellent advice...

- Find a mentor, within your flight department or just around the hangar / airport. Ask questions, develop a good BS filter, and learn from others' experiences.

- If it's Part 91, start to develop your own go / nogo criteria. You'll very possibly be asked to fly in less than optimum circumstances (weather, aircraft status, crew rest, etc.) so you'll need to establish when to draw the line, and how to do that with the owner. Have sound reasoning as to why you're making your decision, and offer alternatives. Don't forget, once you say "yes" and execute the flight, it'll forever become the standard and will be expected for ever and ever. It's a balancing act to some degree: you want them to use their airplane (job security) but you want your opinion to be respected when you have to tell them "no".

Will you be flying the CJ single pilot? If so, been there / done that, and it can get busy.

VIIPILOT
08-16-2017, 11:32 AM
Learn the FMS, forwards and backwards

Learn some FAR 25 performance, it's a subject poorly or perfunctorily taught at schools. Typically, last afternoon after the free pasta lunch.

Stay ahead of the plane, initially the speed difference is daunting.

Figure out the pay and expenses program.

GF

^^^^This^^^^
I been flying contract for 12 years, you be surprise how many guys dont even have a clue about performance/2nd segment s$it.. We do Aspen a lot!! 3/4 times a week sometimes..Some days I get a copilot whos never been in a jet, next trip a ex AA MD80 check airman..

RI830
08-16-2017, 11:45 AM
^^^^This^^^^
I been flying contract for 12 years, you be surprise how many guys dont even have a clue about performance/2nd segment s$it.. We do Aspen a lot!! 3/4 times a week sometimes..Some days I get a copilot whos never been in a jet, next trip a ex AA MD80 check airman..

It's all just gobbilty goop numbers that limit you?!?!?!
Until you finally takeoff and can't figure out why she won't climb out of that valley!!

Respect the Perf Numbers!! Your life and the paxs lives depend on it.

VIIPILOT
08-16-2017, 12:32 PM
It's all just gobbilty goop numbers that limit you?!?!?!
Until you finally takeoff and can't figure out why she won't climb out of that valley!!

Respect the Perf Numbers!! Your life and the paxs lives depend on it.
Amen brother!

SGALLO
08-16-2017, 04:42 PM
Mink and GF are spot on listen to this advice.

Develop your personal minimums for wx and new airports, stay ahead of the plane and wx.

What model CJ? We just got a new CJ3+, fun plane to fly. You'll find the KA is much easier to slow dow than the CJ.

Liberty Pilot
08-16-2017, 04:48 PM
Learn the FMS, forwards and backwards

Learn some FAR 25 performance, it's a subject poorly or perfunctorily taught at schools. Typically, last afternoon after the free pasta lunch.

Stay ahead of the plane, initially the speed difference is daunting.

Figure out the pay and expenses program.

GF

Thank you ! I will definitely look into it. All of my training will be in house.

Liberty Pilot
08-16-2017, 04:50 PM
Mink and GF are spot on listen to this advice.

Develop your personal minimums for wx and new airports, stay ahead of the plane and wx.

What model CJ? We just got a new CJ3+, fun plane to fly. You'll find the KA is much easier to slow dow than the CJ.

They have CJ1,2, and 3+, and then a brand new king air 250. Those are just the starting aircraft they give to build experience in jets before moving on to the bigger equipment.

galaxy flyer
08-16-2017, 06:15 PM
Here's where to start on obstacle performance, but you could research the basics of take-off performance and compliance with the AFM.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC120-91.pdf

GF

Mink
08-16-2017, 08:02 PM
This is also good performance gouge:

https://www.theairlinepilots.com/forumarchive/quickref/flightmanualperformance.pdf

Mink
08-16-2017, 08:05 PM
And here's some info on rest and duty limits:

https://flightsafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DutyRest2014_final1.pdf

TiredSoul
08-16-2017, 08:22 PM
Thank you ! I will definitely look into it. All of my training will be in house.

This concerns me. Why?
Not willing to send you to formal training?

Mink
08-17-2017, 05:40 AM
For your first jet type rating (and all subsequent, for that matter) you need to go to an established training program, with classrooms, sims and experienced IPs.

Liberty Pilot
08-17-2017, 06:11 AM
This concerns me. Why?
Not willing to send you to formal training?

I dont think its that they are not willing, more so the training department staff are very experienced IP's and have had alot of success in the past training this way.

galaxy flyer
08-17-2017, 06:40 AM
Nice links, Mink

I also agree with formal school house for ratings. The courseware is likely to be completely up to date, the schools know the type's history and puts a lot seeming oddities into context, the simulator cannot be duplicated in the plane.

That said, if you did a local company SIC qualification course and then got some experience before going to a formal initial for the PIC type, that is acceptable. From management's perspective, they get a "free" trial period with a new pilot and measure commitment to the company. For you, it's a chance to go to the sim knowing the basics of the plane taking some of the pressure off.

Yes, I've been both a line troop and a chief pilot, so see both sides.

GF

CWGrizwald
08-17-2017, 07:07 AM
All the above advice is right and proper, you have to know the airplane and the rules. However, that is just part of the job, what you really need to understand is that the majority of you work will be dealing with the non-flying side of things, and your #1 job it service to the person who bought an expensive airplane for his/her convienience. You can plan the heck out of a flight, work the fuel, W&B, fight your way through storms, hold a wing on with one hand while landing with the other, and if the car isn't there at the bottom of the steps, the owner will look at you like you are a brithering idiot. Also, try to never use the word "No" to the owner. Instead explain the problem and offer options, but don't be bullied into doing something stupid. Sounds easy right? Welcome to corporate, there are a lot of great people and opportunities in our world.

galaxy flyer
08-17-2017, 07:44 AM
It's all about the food and the landings!

GF

TiredSoul
08-18-2017, 09:18 AM
I dont think its that they are not willing, more so the training department staff are very experienced IP's and have had alot of success in the past training this way.

Ok I'm not understanding something.
SIC straining required under the FAR's for part 91 is woefully inadequate in my opinion. Basic systems, couple of landings and that's it.
Let me rephrase; are they ( eventually) willing to send you to training for a PIC type ?

Liberty Pilot
08-18-2017, 04:59 PM
Ok I'm not understanding something.
SIC straining required under the FAR's for part 91 is woefully inadequate in my opinion. Basic systems, couple of landings and that's it.
Let me rephrase; are they ( eventually) willing to send you to training for a PIC type ?

Yes, you do get the formal training for the PIC type. I believe they use flight safey

partypilot1
08-18-2017, 05:12 PM
They have CJ1,2, and 3+, and then a brand new king air 250. Those are just the starting aircraft they give to build experience in jets before moving on to the bigger equipment.

Good luck with that brand new king air 250

Liberty Pilot
08-18-2017, 06:00 PM
Good luck with that brand new king air 250

Honestly, if I had the choice of which aircraft i could start first i would love to do the KA. of course none of those decisions are up to me and I have to be "officially" offered the position ;)

navigatro
08-18-2017, 06:14 PM
poop in the FBO, not in the jet.

TiredSoul
08-19-2017, 01:37 AM
Thank you ! I will definitely look into it. All of my training will be in house.

So which one is it now?
In house SIC training or out house at Flight Safety?

I suspect we have a confusion with terminology here.
In house should be Indoc training, how the company is run and who is who and who is responsible for what and Ops Specs and GOM and stuff.
The rest is done by a training provider like Flights safety with systems trainings and simulator flying and your type rating.

Liberty Pilot
08-19-2017, 09:58 AM
So which one is it now?
In house SIC training or out house at Flight Safety?

I suspect we have a confusion with terminology here.
In house should be Indoc training, how the company is run and who is who and who is responsible for what and Ops Specs and GOM and stuff.
The rest is done by a training provider like Flights safety with systems trainings and simulator flying and your type rating.

SIC training is all done in house. I believe they send you to Flight Safety or some other school for your PIC type rating.