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View Full Version : Cpp %


J1180
08-19-2017, 10:50 PM
Have you air whiskey guys been told what % of newhire classes you'll make up at United through the CPP?


lukeh99
08-20-2017, 10:36 AM
Nobody seems to know. Even the union apparently doesn't have any info. The company claims to have a number but they don't seem inclined to share at this time.

Attrition seems to hover around 10 per month without the CPP. Even assuming the CPP only took 5 per month that's 15 per month total attrition. There are currently 500 pilots on property. Assume 20% of those pilots don't want to move on. That puts a new hire today at the front of the CPP line in 24 months. Lots of assumptions here but I don't think they are unrealistic.

Another thing to consider: staffing targets are 800 pilots total and AW is going to hire aggressively to meet that. Use the same math above and anyone hired today will be better than 50% up the seniority list in 12 months IF they can keep newhire classes relatively full.

TLDR: It's a great time to get hired at AW.

StrykerB21
08-20-2017, 10:51 AM
The language reads that United will accept X number of AWA pilots per year to take the Hogan. Not per month, per year. We dont know what that number per year is. It could be very small.


Grumbletrousers
08-21-2017, 10:34 AM
United's initial assessment for 2018 is 400-500 pilots.

el jefe
08-21-2017, 12:05 PM
As of right now we will be filling somewhere between 1-100% of every UA new hire class with our CPP.











AWA pilots are on a need to know basis when it comes to information from ATW.

Right now, we don't need to know.

John Carr
08-21-2017, 03:37 PM
Nobody seems to know. Even the union apparently doesn't have any info. The company claims to have a number but they don't seem inclined to share at this time.

Amazing.

You'd think the "growing pains" that were experienced with the UAL-XJT CPP would have been worked out by now.

Meaning, some transparency between management and the AWAC MEC.

They kept XJTALPA in dark for a long long time.

The ONLY way the XJT MEC could tell the HPI pass/F2F "acceptance" rate was via the pilots self reporting their results.

IIRC, that lasted about the first 6 months of interviews.

squib
08-25-2017, 02:12 PM
As of right now we will be filling somewhere between 1-100% of every UA new hire class with our CPP.


How do you even figure 1%?

The CPP is an opportunity to take the hogan test. That is all.

Grumbletrousers
08-25-2017, 02:19 PM
The CPP is an opportunity to fail the hogan test. That is all.

Fixed for you.

squib
08-25-2017, 02:55 PM
Fixed for you.

ha! at least someone else understands how this garbage works

FlyPKP
08-26-2017, 10:30 AM
It's a carrot to get people in the door while upper management continues to ignore ****ed off employees that continue to get abused and threatened almost daily. A junior FO won't see any results from this because the company can barely stay afloat as is.

All they did was lie (shocking I know) that our CPP would be like a flow and so much better than everyone else. What we got was more of the same.

Come here knowing your CPP won't matter and management will treat you nothing like family and more like trash.

lukeh99
08-26-2017, 07:04 PM
Could a new hire FO go to united via the CPP? Of course. How many years will that take? Nobody knows. It could be a long time. This misses the point though:

The CPP generates movement and movement = better quality of life, a faster upgrade, faster PIC time resulting in a more attractive resume and a faster off the street hire. The CPP is a win for everyone at AW even if it is small and even if a new hire FO gets hired off the street by UAL or SWA or AA or [insert major here] before their CPP number comes up.

For those who plan to just wait out the CPP and hope it works out I think they will be very disappointed. It can be a great way to get the list moving but it's not a career plan. See the numbers I posted earlier in this thread though and I think it will only make a good situation that much better.

Grumbletrousers
08-27-2017, 03:43 AM
It's a carrot to get people in the door while upper management continues to ignore ****ed off employees that continue to get abused and threatened almost daily. A junior FO won't see any results from this because the company can barely stay afloat as is.

All they did was lie (shocking I know) that our CPP would be like a flow and so much better than everyone else. What we got was more of the same.

Come here knowing your CPP won't matter and management will treat you nothing like family and more like trash.

Who hurt you PKP

FlyPKP
08-27-2017, 04:18 AM
Who hurt you PKP

No one hurt me. But paying attention to what they're doing to all the front line employees here. Family oriented company no more. The stories of people being threatened to get flying done or else YOU will cause a flight to cancel is sickening. They did to themselves and then they have to audacity to blame us when everyone is being run ragged and exhausted. Things could be worse, but this place is a far from sunshine and rainbows like they continue to claim.

N1234
08-27-2017, 05:18 AM
Could a new hire FO go to united via the CPP? Of course. How many years will that take? Nobody knows. It could be a long time. This misses the point though:

The CPP generates movement and movement = better quality of life, a faster upgrade, faster PIC time resulting in a more attractive resume and a faster off the street hire. The CPP is a win for everyone at AW even if it is small and even if a new hire FO gets hired off the street by UAL or SWA or AA or [insert major here] before their CPP number comes up.

For those who plan to just wait out the CPP and hope it works out I think they will be very disappointed. It can be a great way to get the list moving but it's not a career plan. See the numbers I posted earlier in this thread though and I think it will only make a good situation that much better.

Very good advice .... the same applies to all the flows programs.

billyho
08-29-2017, 12:17 PM
Very good advice .... the same applies to all the flows programs.

Flow is a totally different beast.

mpet
08-31-2017, 11:26 AM
Flow is a totally different beast.

They call him billyflow, it was his only way. :)

billyho
08-31-2017, 06:19 PM
They call him billyflow, it was his only way. :)

Wait didn't you leave Air Wisconsin and go to Compass? :rolleyes: I went from Piedmont to American. What's your excuse?

mpet
08-31-2017, 07:49 PM
Wait didn't you leave Air Wisconsin and go to Compass? :rolleyes: I went from Piedmont to American. What's your excuse?

You're at least 20 years older than me grandpa.

123494
09-01-2017, 07:49 AM
You're at least 20 years older than me grandpa.

Still at mainline. Better than stuck at a regional until burnt out by 65

sweetholyjesus
09-01-2017, 05:29 PM
Still at mainline. Better than stuck at a regional until burnt out by 6520 years is a long time.

billyho
09-01-2017, 07:47 PM
20 years is a long time.

Close... I was at Piedmont just short of 16. :D However I loved every bit of it. You'll never have as much just at the majors as you did at the regionals. Enjoy the time there.

sweetholyjesus
09-02-2017, 04:46 AM
You'll never have as much fun at the majors as you did at the regionals. Enjoy the time there.FIFY. Thanks for the advice! Should we also learn how to type and spell words in the meantime? Or is it better to remain un-hireable and wait 16 years to flow? Please we need more of your great career advice!

Billyflow.. :p

Grumbletrousers
09-02-2017, 05:59 AM
Close... I was at Piedmont just short of 16. :D However I loved every bit of it. You'll never have as much just at the majors as you did at the regionals. Enjoy the time there.

As frustrating as this job can be at times, I completly agree. There have been stretches where it's been non-stop fun on overnights. There are people at this company that make going to work very enjoyable. Funny enough, the best stories I hear come from the guys and girls who flew for ZK.

Two months ago I sat jumpseat on mainline and watched two grown-ass men have an argument about eating meat. Which ended up with awkward silence from about Kansas City to Philly.

Enjoy what you have now.

prex8390
09-02-2017, 12:24 PM
Enjoy your time at the regionals. You'll never get to go to Coachs Pub in MKE again once you go mainline. Not sarcasm either. $1 taco Tuesdays

billyho
09-02-2017, 07:48 PM
FIFY. Thanks for the advice! Should we also learn how to type and spell words in the meantime? Or is it better to remain un-hireable and wait 16 years to flow? Please we need more of your great career advice!

Billyflow.. :p

Just let me know how the CPP works out for ya. :D

sweetholyjesus
09-02-2017, 08:28 PM
Just let me know how the CPP works out for ya. :DI'm just grateful that people who go through the CPP actually have to interview.

And know how to read and write.. ;)

StrykerB21
09-03-2017, 01:58 AM
AA must be an interesting place. Half the people they hire are out of the military. Disciplined, educated, generally great people to work with. The other half is made up of 16 year regional pilots that have the intellect of a trout and needed the flow to be able to go anywhere.

billyho
09-03-2017, 04:43 AM
AA must be an interesting place. Half the people they hire are out of the military. Disciplined, educated, generally great people to work with. The other half is made up of 16 year regional pilots that have the intellect of a trout and needed the flow to be able to go anywhere.

Make sure you tell that to all those 16 year plus captains at AWAC. :rolleyes:

billyho
09-03-2017, 04:45 AM
I'm just grateful that people who go through the CPP actually have to interview.

And know how to read and write.. ;)

So basically many that wouldn't have been even looked at for an interview now can get one. Like I said since you're knocking the flow just let me know how that CPP works out for ya.:D

sweetholyjesus
09-03-2017, 06:39 AM
So basically many that wouldn't have even been looked at for an interview can get one now. Like I said, since you're knocking the flow just let me know how that CPP works out for ya.:DYou can't possibly think that the flow will produce better applicants for AA than the CPP will for UAL. The people who pass the CPP interview will actually have shown that they can prepare accordingly, act like a professional, and properly use the English language to write up a resume that doesn't look like it was made by a child. :rolleyes:

Grumbletrousers
09-03-2017, 06:59 AM
AA must be an interesting place. Half the people they hire are out of the military. Disciplined, educated, generally great people to work with. The other half is made up of 16 year regional pilots that have the intellect of a trout and needed the flow to be able to go anywhere.

That made me laugh harder then it should have

billyho
09-03-2017, 08:54 AM
You can't possibly think that the flow will produce better applicants for AA than the CPP will for UAL. The people who pass the CPP interview will actually have shown that they can prepare accordingly, act like a professional, and properly use the English language to write up a resume that doesn't look like it was made by a child. :rolleyes:

Dude are you really trying to make flying into rocket science? You realize that you don't even need a college degree to figure out that if "you pitch back the house's get smaller, if you pitch forward they get bigger.... and if you pitch back and they get smaller and keep pitching back they'll get bigger again real fast." Give me a damn Break. I flew at Piedmont, got through AA Training and have fun flying with every Captain I've ever flow with.

Give me a damn break with your English and looks. If you want to see how professional I look I can meet up with you in Philly anytime you like. Hell I'll even buy you a coffee and show you my paycheck stub. I think it'd be fun! I can even share stories of my Piedmont Interview with you. Maybe it will help you with the Hogen Test.

billyho
09-03-2017, 08:59 AM
That made me laugh harder then it should have
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7btQu9YR9yr1nmMg/giphy.gif

John Carr
09-03-2017, 09:03 AM
The people who pass the CPP interview will actually have shown that they can prepare accordingly, act like a professional, and properly use the English language to write up a resume that doesn't look like it was made by a child. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, NOW.

When it first started, you'd be surprised at who made it and who didn't.......

sweetholyjesus
09-03-2017, 10:03 AM
Dude are you really trying to make flying into rocket science? You realize that you don't even need a college degree to figure out that if "you pitch back the house's get smaller, if you pitch forward they get bigger.... and if you pitch back and they get smaller and keep pitching back they'll get bigger again real fast." Give me a damn Break. I flew at Piedmont, got through AA Training and have fun flying with every Captain I've ever flow with.

Give me a damn break with your English and looks. If you want to see how professional I look I can meet up with you in Philly anytime you like. Hell I'll even buy you a coffee and show you my paycheck stub. I think it'd be fun! I can even share stories of my Piedmont Interview with you. Maybe it will help you with the Hogen Test.This is just too funny! This guy can't even spell Hogan correctly. No way is someone like you going to pass any type of interview at a legacy. Billyflow indeed! It's amazing how you try to down-talk the profession just to justify your inability to move up on your own. Stryker is right, AA must be an interesting place to work. Professional, driven military folks being forced to work with lazy clowns like this! :eek:

I'll let you know when I reach your age 20 years from now if I have yet to reach a legacy. That way you can have the last laugh :rolleyes:

billyho
09-03-2017, 10:23 AM
This is just too funny! This guy can't even spell Hogan correctly. No way is someone like you going to pass any type of interview at a legacy. Billyflow indeed! It's amazing how you try to down-talk the profession just to justify your inability to move up on your own. Stryker is right, AA must be an interesting place to work. Professional, driven military folks being forced to work with lazy clowns like this! :eek:

I'll let you know when I reach your age 20 years from now if I have yet to reach a legacy. That way you can have the last laugh :rolleyes:

hahahah.. Young Buck you got a ton to learn about the industry. The job isn't hard at all. It's weirdo's like you that make the job hard.
I get to work when I'm suppose to. I wear my uniform like I'm suppose to. I stay groomed like I'm suppose to. I operate my plane like I'm suppose to. I'm prepared for CQT like I'm suppose to.

The end of the day most of us professional driven pilots (Military or Regional) do one thing the same. We try to make as much money and work as little as possible.

Not sure what your hard on is over Military pilots. My dad was a military pilot for 32 years. He put his pants on just like I did.

Like I said you got a ton to learn young buck.

sweetholyjesus
09-03-2017, 10:36 AM
hahahah.. Young Buck you got a ton to learn about the industry. The job isn't hard at all. It's weirdo's like you that make the job hard.
I get to work when I'm suppose to. I wear my uniform like I'm suppose to. I stay groomed like I'm suppose to. I operate my plane like I'm suppose to. I'm prepared for CQT like I'm suppose to.

The end of the day most of us professional driven pilots (Military or Regional) do one thing the same. We try to make as much money and work as little as possible.

Not sure what your hard on is over Military pilots. My dad was a military pilot for 32 years. He put his pants on just like I did.

Like I said you got a ton to learn young buck.I can't stop laughing! But it's a bit sad. You don't value the profession, and AA doesn't value you. That's why they don't bother interviewing you or your future coworkers. I suppose you wound up in the right place! But yes, keep making more excuses for your lack of qualifications. I just feel sorry for the real professionals that work there.

Billyflow :)

billyho
09-03-2017, 10:40 AM
I can't stop laughing! But it's a bit sad. You don't value the profession, and AA doesn't value you. That's why they don't bother interviewing you or your future coworkers. I suppose you wound up in the right place! But yes, keep making more excuses for your lack of qualifications. I just feel sorry for the real professionals that work there.

Billyflow :)

https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufdipQqU2lhNA4g/giphy.gif

sweetholyjesus
09-03-2017, 10:55 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufdipQqU2lhNA4g/giphy.gifI can post GIFs too! Anything else? :rolleyes:
https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0115/74/1470470341526.gif

chrisreedrules
09-04-2017, 05:52 AM
I can't stop laughing! But it's a bit sad. You don't value the profession, and AA doesn't value you. That's why they don't bother interviewing you or your future coworkers. I suppose you wound up in the right place! But yes, keep making more excuses for your lack of qualifications. I just feel sorry for the real professionals that work there.

Billyflow :)

:rolleyes:

sweetholyjesus
09-04-2017, 06:32 AM
:rolleyes:Did I say anything in particular that you disagree with, or is the emoji all you've got? Let's think this through..

PILOT A: Distinguished career. Works hard to improve his resume, education and character. Meticulously prepares for interview. Displays his character, technical knowledge, and interpersonal skills for the mainline interview panel. Gets hired. Hopes to work with similar caliber professionals until retirement.

PILOT B: Picks his nose in the cockpit. Works hard trolling APC all day. Loves GIFs but can't spell words or use proper punctuation. Shows regional hiring personnel that he can fog a mirror. Sits as an FO for 16 years until he flows to mainline. Hopes to look even cooler walking through the terminal wearing sunglasses.

American: We've never met PILOT B but he can fly a plane. Let's make PILOT A sit two feet from PILOT B for 6 hours per day, 4 days per week, for the next 25 years. Because we value our professional pilots.

:confused:

mm1989
09-04-2017, 06:43 AM
Pretty sure Pilot A still picks his nose

sweetholyjesus
09-04-2017, 06:53 AM
Pretty sure Pilot A still picks his nosehttps://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/1532c71208a8b681_8-1783/home-design.jpg

mm1989
09-04-2017, 09:45 AM
https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/1532c71208a8b681_8-1783/home-design.jpg

I see you have a hard time with sarcasam

sweetholyjesus
09-04-2017, 09:50 AM
I see you have a hard time with sarcasamIf that's the excuse you want to go with, then fine. I've already moved on.

chrisreedrules
09-04-2017, 11:36 AM
If that's the excuse you want to go with, then fine. I've already moved on.

You're such a weirdo.

sweetholyjesus
09-04-2017, 11:48 AM
You're such a weirdo.https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-12-2016/Y_oPjX.gif

123494
09-04-2017, 02:10 PM
hahahah.. Young Buck you got a ton to learn about the industry. The job isn't hard at all. It's weirdo's like you that make the job hard.
I get to work when I'm suppose to. I wear my uniform like I'm suppose to. I stay groomed like I'm suppose to. I operate my plane like I'm suppose to. I'm prepared for CQT like I'm suppose to.



The end of the day most of us professional driven pilots (Military or Regional) do one thing the same. We try to make as much money and work as little as possible.

Not sure what your hard on is over Military pilots. My dad was a military pilot for 32 years. He put his pants on just like I did.

Like I said you got a ton to learn young buck.

My dad always put my pants on for me, but I turned out alright

billyho
09-15-2017, 05:23 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-06/jetblue-to-expand-program-that-turns-grocery-clerks-into-pilots

pitchtrim
09-15-2017, 08:36 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-06/jetblue-to-expand-program-that-turns-grocery-clerks-into-pilots

Lol 24 people selected for a 15k "pilot shortage" to go to flight school and build 1500 hours like everyone else does. Only 19 left. My guess is 6 actually make it through.

stroopwaffle
06-29-2018, 10:18 AM
So, how big do you think this ďinitial cadreĒ to go to UA ďby the end of the yearĒ will be?

donkeyjockey
06-29-2018, 07:29 PM
I was told from a reliable source that we will all be there by the end of 2019. The only thing that could slow that down is being able to staff at awac.


See you on the line at United

Grumbletrousers
06-30-2018, 08:14 AM
I was told from a reliable source that we will all be there by the end of 2019. The only thing that could slow that down is being able to staff at awac.


See you on the line at United

Iím not sure if youíre being sarcastic.

United is cutting our flights because we canít staff. AWA isnt going to sacrifice its own bottom line for the sake of some program. Itís likely theyíll send 1 pilot a month only to justify it on marketing and recruitment pamphlets.

StrykerB21
06-30-2018, 09:04 AM
Iím not sure if youíre being sarcastic.

United is cutting our flights because we canít staff. AWA isnt going to sacrifice its own bottom line for the sake of some program. Itís likely theyíll send 1 pilot a month only to justify it on marketing and recruitment pamphlets.

He was being sarcastic.

donkeyjockey
06-30-2018, 09:17 AM
thanks stryker.


I don't have time to clarify clearly sarcastic comments. quick turns only allow for a walk around and a gyro platter at skybridge. Speaking of which mountain of lamb, here I come.

puddlejumper
07-01-2018, 03:36 AM
Have you air whiskey guys been told what % of newhire classes you'll make up at United through the CPP?I asked this at my CPP interview in March. Air Wisconsin will make up 10% of United new hire classes. Express Jet is 25%. Between Commutair, Mesa and that flight school, 50% of the classes will be through CPP.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

JuniorFO
07-01-2018, 03:49 AM
From my understanding:

XJT - 25% minimum
Air Wiskey - 10%
C5 - 10%
MESA - it's a mystery

stroopwaffle
07-01-2018, 06:15 AM
If they are running classes of +40, my goat brain calculates thatís 4 ZW kids per class. Not too shabby.

DarkSideMoon
07-01-2018, 06:29 AM
If they are running classes of +40, my goat brain calculates thatís 4 ZW kids per class. Not too shabby.

Up to 4 from the CPP, Doesn't ZW have to agree to let them leave though?

stroopwaffle
07-01-2018, 07:29 AM
Well, yea.

There are A LOT of hoops/barriers for anyone from ZW going to UA through the CPP.

Foremost being ZW needs to be over staffed.

20sx
07-08-2018, 06:34 AM
From my understanding:

XJT - 25% minimum
Air Wiskey - 10%
C5 - 10%
MESA - it's a mystery


Mesa....probably 5% to make an even 50%.

idlethrust
07-08-2018, 10:57 AM
Mesa....probably 5% to make an even 50%.

Mesa =0 %
One requirement of the cpp is a 4 year degree
How many guys at YV fall into that category? Very few if any Iím willing to bet and United knows that

T28driver
07-08-2018, 12:31 PM
Mesa =0 %
One requirement of the cpp is a 4 year degree
How many guys at YV fall into that category? Very few if any Iím willing to bet and United knows that

Thatís a pretty shortsighted dig at another pilot group. They were the only real game in town for a lot of people that wanted to live in Houston, not commute, and have a reasonably quick upgrade.

lukeh99
07-08-2018, 06:24 PM
Mesa =0 %
One requirement of the cpp is a 4 year degree
How many guys at YV fall into that category? Very few if any Iím willing to bet and United knows that

Lame post award.

GravellyPointer
08-07-2018, 08:47 AM
Up to 4 from the CPP, Doesn't ZW have to agree to let them leave though?

Nope. Not according to guys who should know that I've talked to and higher management at Air Wis.

All parties I've talked to agree that it would be very unwise for Air Wisconsin to 'hold' successful CPP pilots from receiving a CJO and class date from United, even if they could do so. The 'word on the street' would get out quick and damage Air Wis' ability to attract pilots.

When I spoke with a former Air Wis Pilot, now at United, who recruits part time for United and oversees the CPP for Air Wisconsin, he thought the CPP doesn't give Air Wisconsin the ability to hold a CPP pilot back from going to United.

squib
08-07-2018, 10:56 PM
The 'word on the street' would get out quick and damage Air Wis' ability to attract pilots.


Words and actions are two different things. We shall see soon right? They did say 3rd quarter 2018 for CPP movement. There's already a thread here titled Air Wisconsin or Go Jet. This place is not only a sinking ship but it's been on fire before it hit the iceberg.

GravellyPointer
08-20-2018, 01:10 PM
According to a pilot I spoke to, one of the successful CPP pilots was in the crew room today and confirmed he was invited last week to a September class with UAL in DEN.

#itshappening

Reduced flying and better staffing as a result gives an even greater Ďargumentí against hypothesizing that Air Wis management would Ďholdí a CPP pilot back from United.

Peace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

squib
08-22-2018, 08:18 PM
You heard of one guy getting a class at UAL. Means nothing. Plus, reduced flying is not a good thing. Itís because they canít hire or retain.

If they donít send a couple pilots this year through the CPP that would be the end of this place. They have to send a few to increase morale but itís going to be minimal. Like ya said. You heard of ONE.

stroopwaffle
08-23-2018, 08:23 AM
It would be nice to get some info from the company about how the CPP is going. You get a list of employee numbers for those that applied, but nothing about who passed or how itís going to work. Word of mouth just makes for bad rumors.

StrykerB21
08-23-2018, 08:24 AM
It would be nice to get some info from the company about how the CPP is going. You get a list of employee numbers for those that applied, but nothing about who passed or how itís going to work. Word of mouth just makes for bad rumors.

I dont think the company is going to make any announcements. Asked MP about it and he sounded like Baghdad Bob.

GravellyPointer
08-30-2018, 11:09 AM
You heard of one guy getting a class at UAL. Means nothing. Plus, reduced flying is not a good thing. Itís because they canít hire or retain.



If they donít send a couple pilots this year through the CPP that would be the end of this place. They have to send a few to increase morale but itís going to be minimal. Like ya said. You heard of ONE.



Two are going to to the second class in September, none to the first class. Class sizes are about 40 each, 2/20 is 5% of each class: AirWis CPP.

UAL has consistently been running two classes a month. If that keeps up (no reason to see why it wonít) that will be 48 AW CPP a year.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stroopwaffle
08-31-2018, 10:03 AM
Has anyone gotten the Hogan for the 2018 group? Interviews scheduled?

5% is still movement, but it could take a looong time for even someone who has been here 3-5 years that may have just upgraded

BigWillyCapt
09-01-2018, 07:06 AM
Has anyone gotten the Hogan for the 2018 group? Interviews scheduled?

5% is still movement, but it could take a looong time for even someone who has been here 3-5 years that may have just upgraded

Except half fail the Hogan and half of the rest fail the interview so you might move up sooner than you think! 😜

stroopwaffle
09-06-2018, 03:55 AM
Itís facebook official, two to go late September. Both really great pilots and people, well deserving.

stroopwaffle
10-12-2018, 09:18 AM
Did more than one person go to the first October class, or was it just SP?

DarkSideMoon
10-12-2018, 11:25 AM
Did more than one person go to the first October class, or was it just SP?

Iíve talked to a handful that have class dates now but I couldnít tell you exactly which classes theyíre in.

GravellyPointer
10-12-2018, 12:34 PM
Did more than one person go to the first October class, or was it just SP?



Three total AirWis CPP started N/H class Oct 9th. Two from ORD, one from IAD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stroopwaffle
10-13-2018, 07:14 AM
2-3 per class is better than I thought, hopefully it keeps up at this pace and classes don't get cancelled. Congrats to all who have made it through. We still have no clue what the pass/fail rate is, or what the line looks like seniority wise.

stroopwaffle
10-16-2018, 03:47 PM
I'm not on the FOAW facebook page, did anyone from AWA get sent to the UA class that started today?

GravellyPointer
10-16-2018, 03:55 PM
I'm not on the FOAW facebook page, did anyone from AWA get sent to the UA class that started today?



No, none of the three of us recognized any names. Big class too, 40. None of our ExpressJet N/Hís in my class recognized anyone from there also.

One N/H class scheduled for Nov, Dec, Jan (so far). Two AirWis CPP slated to go in Nov.


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stroopwaffle
10-17-2018, 08:43 AM
Bummer. Hopefully some 5-digit employee numbers in November? Thanks for checking, the only info we get is word of mouth.

GravellyPointer
10-17-2018, 06:06 PM
No, none of the three of us recognized any names. Big class too, 40. None of our ExpressJet N/Hís in my class recognized anyone from there also.

One N/H class scheduled for Nov, Dec, Jan (so far). Two AirWis CPP slated to go in Nov.


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Actually 10 ExpressJet Pilots started in N/H class yesterday, my bad.




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squib
10-17-2018, 08:07 PM
2-3 per class is better than I thought, hopefully it keeps up at this pace and classes don't get cancelled. Congrats to all who have made it through. We still have no clue what the pass/fail rate is, or what the line looks like seniority wise.


Where do you get 2-3 per class from the 3 that have moved on since CPP was announced 12 months ago?

Grumbletrousers
10-18-2018, 03:23 AM
Where do you get 2-3 per class from the 3 that have moved on since CPP was announced 12 months ago?

10 are planned to go this year. Safe to assume 20 will go next year. I donít think thatís 3 per class but at least itís something.

stroopwaffle
10-18-2018, 03:47 AM
2 left for a September class

3 left for an October class

I would say that qualifies as 2-3 per class. Apparently no one left for the late October class, so I guess Iím full of shyte.

5 have left for UA. Thatís better than 0.

squib
10-18-2018, 04:06 AM
2 left for a September class

3 left for an October class

I would say that qualifies as 2-3 per class. Apparently no one left for the late October class, so I guess Iím full of shyte.

5 have left for UA. Thatís better than 0.

5 over a period of more than 12 months since CPP enrollment. Hardly 2-3 per class.

Of course itís better than zero but the program is a joke and there are no defined details.

Why do some of you eat this garbage up like free food in another trashy basement crew room?

CanWeGetTheLeft
10-18-2018, 07:48 AM
5 over a period of more than 12 months since CPP enrollment. Hardly 2-3 per class.

Of course itís better than zero but the program is a joke and there are no defined details.

Why do some of you eat this garbage up like free food in another trashy basement crew room?

First time caller, long time listener.

Squib, you donít have to make it seem worse than it actually is, which is what you are doing here.

What we donít know about the CPP is pretty bad, and completely shameful. We have no idea what the Hogan or interview pass rate is. Guys who are on the list have no real way of verifying how many people are ahead of them that have also met the requirements. We donít know if there is a minimum number of Air Wisconsin pilots that are supposed to be in each new hire class moving forward, and we donít know if itís a percentage of each class or a flat number per class.

But one thing we have known is that we were not going to be sending pilots until we had been flying for United for about a year. So your statement ď5 over a 12 month periodĒ while technically accurate (I think?), itís a misrepresentation. ď5 pilots over the last X classesĒ is a better way of putting it.

Itís still not a trend. No way to tell until a lot more classes have started with or without Air Wisconsin CPP Pilots in them.

DarkSideMoon
10-18-2018, 09:09 AM
First time caller, long time listener.

Squib, you donít have to make it seem worse than it actually is, which is what you are doing here.

What we donít know about the CPP is pretty bad, and completely shameful. We have no idea what the Hogan or interview pass rate is. Guys who are on the list have no real way of verifying how many people are ahead of them that have also met the requirements. We donít know if there is a minimum number of Air Wisconsin pilots that are supposed to be in each new hire class moving forward, and we donít know if itís a percentage of each class or a flat number per class.

But one thing we have known is that we were not going to be sending pilots until we had been flying for United for about a year. So your statement ď5 over a 12 month periodĒ while technically accurate (I think?), itís a misrepresentation. ď5 pilots over the last X classesĒ is a better way of putting it.

Itís still not a trend. No way to tell until a lot more classes have started with or without Air Wisconsin CPP Pilots in them.

Agreed. I donít think anyone who isnít super senior is putting a lot of faith in the CPP, but we just donít have the data yet to show if itís worthwhile or not. If the company would ever start communicating with their pilots instead of treating us like red headed step children it would probably reduce a lot of tension.

StrykerB21
10-18-2018, 11:23 AM
Lets give the benefit of the doubt and say for arguments sake that Air Wisconsin will be sending 3 a month. Thats 36 a year. Anyone thats come on property since the United flying began will be waiting over 15 years for their chance. And thats only if they pass the hogan, the interview, and have a perfect attendance record during all that time.

These programs are designed to staff the regional, not the legacy. This program is a carrot on a stick that will be just out of reach for the vast majority of people at ZW, in order to keep them at ZW.

CanWeGetTheLeft
10-18-2018, 12:01 PM
Lets give the benefit of the doubt and say for arguments sake that Air Wisconsin will be sending 3 a month. Thats 36 a year. Anyone thats come on property since the United flying began will be waiting over 15 years for their chance. And thats only if they pass the hogan, the interview, and have a perfect attendance record during all that time.

These programs are designed to staff the regional, not the legacy. This program is a carrot on a stick that will be just out of reach for the vast majority of people at ZW, in order to keep them at ZW.

Agree with most of your points, but your math is off. 544 pilots/36 does equal 15 years for everyone on the FLICA list to go.

The high number guy thatís going to UAL in November was the 36th person on the overall enrollment list that was last released.

Some of the people above him have not interviewed, because they enrolled at the end of the window. Some of them did take the hogan, or interviewed, but were shot down. Some of them donít have 4 year degrees. We donít know. And because we donít know, speculating on how long itís going to take for this program to work through the list is meaningless. It could be 3-4 years for a guy that just got hired, or it could be never.

The CPP is a expedited ticket to interview at UAL (twice!), and thatís it. I think the biggest problem that most people have is that it is marketed as ďcareer progressionĒ in the same way that the AA WOís market the flow. Itís not.

DarkSideMoon
10-18-2018, 01:40 PM
Agree with most of your points, but your math is off. 544 pilots/36 does equal 15 years for everyone on the FLICA list to go.

The high number guy thatís going to UAL in November was the 36th person on the overall enrollment list that was last released.

Some of the people above him have not interviewed, because they enrolled at the end of the window. Some of them did take the hogan, or interviewed, but were shot down. Some of them donít have 4 year degrees. We donít know. And because we donít know, speculating on how long itís going to take for this program to work through the list is meaningless. It could be 3-4 years for a guy that just got hired, or it could be never.

The CPP is a expedited ticket to interview at UAL (twice!), and thatís it. I think the biggest problem that most people have is that it is marketed as ďcareer progressionĒ in the same way that the AA WOís market the flow. Itís not.

Not to mention the fact that if our CPP is structured similarly to Expressjet or others itís a percentage of each newhire class. This was a slow year for hiring at united so itís a small total amount of us going. As they start hiring more and more more people should theoretically be going every month.

John Carr
10-18-2018, 02:33 PM
What we donít know about the CPP is pretty bad, and completely shameful. We have no idea what the Hogan or interview pass rate is. Guys who are on the list have no real way of verifying how many people are ahead of them that have also met the requirements.

That doesn't make it that much different than XJT's at first.

There was NO information sharing from UAL, the company (XJT), etc at first. It was all word of mouth and pilots that voluntarily shared their experience.

This was a slow year for hiring at united so itís a small total amount of us going. As they start hiring more and more more people should theoretically be going every month.

Actually, not really. Since hiring began, TO DATE, it's been the 3rd busiest. If they have all the planned classes, it's shaping up to be the 2nd busiest. 2015 saw about 830 new hires. This year should be over 600.

Last year was slow, with just under 300. And 25% of those were XJT CPP's. I can't remember how many were Commutair.

DarkSideMoon
10-18-2018, 03:12 PM
That doesn't make it that much different than XJT's at first.

There was NO information sharing from UAL, the company (XJT), etc at first. It was all word of mouth and pilots that voluntarily shared their experience.



Actually, not really. Since hiring began, TO DATE, it's been the 3rd busiest. If they have all the planned classes, it's shaping up to be the 2nd busiest. 2015 saw about 830 new hires. This year should be over 600.

Last year was slow, with just under 300. And 25% of those were XJT CPP's. I can't remember how many were Commutair.

Good to know; Iíd heard it was slow from several people but itís mostly hearsay at this level. I wonder if our percentage is super low or if ZW is metering the number of people leaving.

TransWorld
10-18-2018, 05:03 PM
The big Boeing pilot hiring projection indicates 1 in every 5 regional pilots will be hired each year, starting in just a few years. That hiring rate will be sustained for a decade or two out.

How does this square with what you all are saying right now?

Things are goining to change radically in the regionals, in just a few years.

John Carr
10-18-2018, 07:57 PM
Good to know; Iíd heard it was slow from several people but itís mostly hearsay at this level. I wonder if our percentage is super low or if ZW is metering the number of people leaving.

They canít plan more than about 45-60 days ahead.

But this year has seen more classes than expected, but probably still wonít hit the initial projection.

But hopefully it keeps going, and AWAC gets a definitive % and you guys can see some movement.

Itís FINALLY starting to move at XJT. Only took about 2.5 years from CPP announcement.

GravellyPointer
10-31-2018, 08:29 PM
Last week at DEN TK a fellow AWAC CPPer stated he was told 10 this year, then a defined percentage starting in 2019.



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BAe3100FO
11-01-2018, 07:02 AM
I know if 5 gents that are onboard via cpp, so the game is work it albeit not as fast as weíd like.

stroopwaffle
11-01-2018, 03:37 PM
Surprised itís only 10 this year with UA with them adding classes through the end of the year (4 total).

How much lead time did you get with notification before class date?

So funny how everything is a secret in regards to the CPP.

DarkSideMoon
11-02-2018, 02:42 AM
Surprised itís only 10 this year with UA with them adding classes through the end of the year (4 total).

How much lead time did you get with notification before class date?

So funny how everything is a secret in regards to the CPP.

If America runs on Dunkin, ZW runs on secrets.

squib
11-07-2018, 10:07 PM
So funny how everything is a secret in regards to the CPP.


There's no secret, it's because there's nothing to actually advertise about. If there was real promising news, they would talk about it. Meanwhile they brag about iPads and a training hotel the packers stay at.

Soxfan1
11-08-2018, 08:34 AM
Meanwhile they brag about iPads and a training hotel the packers stay at.

Not the Packers but we know what you meant :)



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