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View Full Version : Hawaiian First Year Pay


Richbv
09-04-2017, 06:50 PM
Hi does anybody know what is the after tax first year income, like not 36x75$, like with per diem, real average (credit) hours after taxes? How much is going to the account every month? Thanks
2000tt, 1800 a320, college degree, all international experience ... Any chances??


Qotsaautopilot
09-05-2017, 09:18 AM
Question: why did the Hawaiian pilots choose not to look out for new hires

Moonwolf
09-05-2017, 06:24 PM
Question: why did the Hawaiian pilots choose not to look out for new hires

I think most, especially the senior ones think because they had to do it, so should the new hires. Usually if it's ever brought up while flying it's followed by a "well it my day it was 1700 salary a month or some low amount" so that somehow justifies it in their minds.
And with 20-30 years at the job, faced with a significant upgrade in pay for them, first year pay is not a concerns so why vote it down. Uy

The unions position is that it's the companies job to set pay for the first year, although they also said they put significant money towards an trying to increase for first year... apparently not enough (pun intended)

I don't see anything changing unless people don't show up for class/interviews etc but from what I can tell seems like there are people lined up.


Qotsaautopilot
09-06-2017, 05:33 PM
I think most, especially the senior ones think because they had to do it, so should the new hires. Usually if it's ever brought up while flying it's followed by a "well it my day it was 1700 salary a month or some low amount" so that somehow justifies it in their minds.
And with 20-30 years at the job, faced with a significant upgrade in pay for them, first year pay is not a concerns so why vote it down. Uy

The unions position is that it's the companies job to set pay for the first year, although they also said they put significant money towards an trying to increase for first year... apparently not enough (pun intended)

I don't see anything changing unless people don't show up for class/interviews etc but from what I can tell seems like there are people lined up.


Sad. Simple case of pulling the ladder up behind you. I had it bad so future generations should too. What a joke. Pilots applying to Hawaiian are done paying dues. These are experienced pilots not kids with a wet commercial.

Rama
09-06-2017, 09:00 PM
It is sad, however the union tried to change it. Certainly not worth rejecting a contract on this one issue.
Management can up the first year pay at any time. It is certainly short-sighted not to.

WestCoaster82
09-07-2017, 11:40 AM
Does anyone have any information on the initial post, by chance? Income after tax?

supernaut
09-07-2017, 02:56 PM
Does anyone have any information on the initial post, by chance? Income after tax?

Yes. It varies by what state you're a resident of and how many withholding exemptions you're claiming on state and federal W-4 forms.

Qotsaautopilot
09-07-2017, 03:02 PM
It is sad, however the union tried to change it. Certainly not worth rejecting a contract on this one issue.
Management can up the first year pay at any time. It is certainly short-sighted not to.

Imo it IS worth rejecting a contract on THIS ONE issue.

Kettlebell
09-07-2017, 03:23 PM
Take home is about 1k per paycheck...

Richbv
09-08-2017, 08:27 AM
Take home is about 1k per paycheck...

Houston we have a problem!

magneto
09-09-2017, 01:19 PM
I think most, especially the senior ones think because they had to do it, so should the new hires. Usually if it's ever brought up while flying it's followed by a "well it my day it was 1700 salary a month or some low amount" so that somehow justifies it in their minds.
.

Probably the same guys who complain when they fly with an FO that was a CFI a year ago and has no PIC time.

Hercbubba
09-10-2017, 12:01 PM
I turned them down last month...wrote a professional letter telling them 36/hr was unacceptable? I got a thanks for your input email return. Hope they up first yr pay for you guys.

HAL330
09-10-2017, 07:47 PM
Unfortunately there are plenty of pilots willing to forgo the first year pay knowing they will likely get the A330 and be making 140 plus next year. Eventually Hawaiian will have to raise first year pay, for now they have plenty of candidates willing to starve first year...

Milksheikh
09-11-2017, 08:29 AM
I turned them down last month...wrote a professional letter telling them 36/hr was unacceptable? I got a thanks for your input email return. Hope they up first yr pay for you guys.

I've been seeing this quite often recently. I guess I'm a little confused. Were you among others anticipating they would raise the first year pay with this past contract? Or did you not know they were at 36/hr? Perhaps some applied and knew full well they would turn them down if given the offer citing the extremely low first year pay? Or maybe you were picked up somewhere else before getting hired at hawaiian? I guess that covers about most scenarios.. Just curious as to why you and others are putting in the effort, filling out the application and actually getting a call and then turning down the job.

Rama
09-11-2017, 08:58 AM
Its good that they do that.
The company needs to realize that first year pay is a serious detriment to attracting the talent they seek.

Milksheikh
09-11-2017, 11:13 AM
Its good that they do that.
The company needs to realize that first year pay is a serious detriment to attracting the talent they seek.

I agree its good they do that. It gives other people a shot who otherwise got passed over. First year pay is awful there and probably is a reason many people look elsewhere. At the same time, I believe Hawaiian has only has like 650ish pilots so they only need to hire a tiny percent of what the majors do. Seems they get all the qualified apps they need every hiring window because they only hire a very small amount relatively.

Jetspeed
09-12-2017, 05:24 AM
I've been seeing this quite often recently. I guess I'm a little confused. Were you among others anticipating they would raise the first year pay with this past contract? Or did you not know they were at 36/hr? Perhaps some applied and knew full well they would turn them down if given the offer citing the extremely low first year pay? Or maybe you were picked up somewhere else before getting hired at hawaiian? I guess that covers about most scenarios.. Just curious as to why you and others are putting in the effort, filling out the application and actually getting a call and then turning down the job.

Put me in the camp that was hoping 1st year was going to change with the new contract.

magneto
09-12-2017, 01:45 PM
I agree its good they do that. It gives other people a shot who otherwise got passed over.

Good that it sends a message, but not good because they pick all interviewees right after the window closes and send everyone else TBNT. So people who accept a slot and then turn down the class later have taken an interview slot from someone that wants to be there and accepts the 1st yr pay.
It would be better if people would turn down the interview offer and tell them why. Then someone else could get that interview slot.

full of luv
09-13-2017, 11:46 PM
Good that it sends a message, but not good because they pick all interviewees right after the window closes and send everyone else TBNT. So people who accept a slot and then turn down the class later have taken an interview slot from someone that wants to be there and accepts the 1st yr pay.
It would be better if people would turn down the interview offer and tell them why. Then someone else could get that interview slot.

Maybe, but actually, BEST would be if NO ONE accepted first year pay at that level and mgmt immediately got the message, but alas almost all pilots are who*%#s to one extent or another.

Reminds me of the old Churchill quote:

Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?" Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "
Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!" Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price

Milksheikh
09-14-2017, 03:09 PM
Good that it sends a message, but not good because they pick all interviewees right after the window closes and send everyone else TBNT. So people who accept a slot and then turn down the class later have taken an interview slot from someone that wants to be there and accepts the 1st yr pay.
It would be better if people would turn down the interview offer and tell them why. Then someone else could get that interview slot.

I see what you mean. I didn't know they did it that way. Yes it would be better if they turned down the interview first. And jetspeed, I too thought they would raise first year pay in this contract also, so I can see why you did what you did. Not sure if it was on the table during negotiations or not but a pity it wasn't addressed.

Do people actually move to Hawaii the first year or is it pretty much commute until year 2? Just looking on Zillow at housing prices and the rental market there, your money just doesn't go very far relatively (currently in the midwest). For younger folks it might be doable if they split a place with someone for that first year but for families especially those who haven't been or don't know anyone there, saying it would be a challenge is putting it lightly.

Poopchute701
09-14-2017, 06:02 PM
Seeing that first year pay is definitely an issue, what is everyones opinion on what the first year pay rate should be? Also, do most people getting hired right now see Hawaiian as a career destination or a stepping stone with the new contract, growth, future...?

Chris99
09-14-2017, 06:14 PM
HAL's regional Ohana pays over $60k for the first year and gives a $12k retention bonus and a $5k signing bonus. I'd say they should at least start there.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

nrodgsxr
09-14-2017, 09:08 PM
Seeing that first year pay is definitely an issue, what is everyones opinion on what the first year pay rate should be? Also, do most people getting hired right now see Hawaiian as a career destination or a stepping stone with the new contract, growth, future...?

What would HAL be a stepping stone to?

Rama
09-14-2017, 10:37 PM
Hawaii is a high cost of living area with poor public schools. A single family house will run you about a million in an area that you want to live in.
Don't even consider the job unless your goal is to live in Hawaii.
First year pay is embarrassing. Think long and hard before considering Hal as a place to work.

WindWalker999
09-14-2017, 11:02 PM
Hawaii is a high cost of living area with poor public schools. A single family house will run you about a million in an area that you want to live in.
Don't even consider the job unless your goal is to live in Hawaii.
First year pay is embarrassing. Think long and hard before considering Hal as a place to work.

Good advice. Moving to Hawaii is very much different than moving from Detroit to Minneapolis. Commuting works for people who live in, and commute from, a HAL destination city on the West Coast that they can consistently hold trips to. If you can "lay over" at home then maybe almost okay. Otherwise you might as well be commuting from Atlanta to Rome 3 or 4 times a month to fly for Alitalia.

Do your due diligence. Come here because you want to be here, or have an open mind to being here. It is a big move to bite off without really knowing what you are getting yourself into.

Poopchute701
09-14-2017, 11:10 PM
What would HAL be a stepping stone to?

FOs have and are continuing to leave to DL, UA, AA, FX. I'm guessing most of them left before the new contract got signed and commuted from the mainland. Obviously the others have better contracts, movement, "stability"... Many are just trying to get out of the regionals and Hawaiian provides a decent stop for many to get widebody experience to move on or just stay and retire if they can't.

Milksheikh
09-20-2017, 12:16 PM
I think I will end up eventually throwing my name in the hat. Its a step up (after the first year of course), chances to get the 330 right off the bat are good and my goal is widebody capt one day which I believe I could achieve there. Ultimately, it is just another bullet to land somewhere for when I shotgun my apps. Ideally I'd like to get called somewhere else before they call, but if they are the first, I would have to commute that first year before the big move.

leeaf7
09-21-2017, 01:22 AM
I am currently going through the first year; 717 side. About 85 hours of credit in average per month; take home is about 2400 a month.

1150 sqft apartment I am renting is $2500 a month (plus 400+ for utility) and that's not even close to the town (Honolulu) side.

They all show empathy toward the first year guys and their pay. But frankly that's all you are going to see. Like said above, why would you turn down your money for someone who's not even off probation yet?

I am slowly understanding why HAL's management has been focused on hiring guys having ties to HI. It's rough living out here and you won't last if you keep dwelling on that time you were back in the mainland without having nothing out here to cling onto. Even when you are making 150k or more, housing price nearing a million, private school costing 20k plus a year per kid and etc., you are still not going to quite get into that comfort zone. My wife and I (with kids) are still wondering if we could make ends meet on a second year pay when yearly min salary nears 100k already.

Don't get me wrong. It is still a good company imo and the pay is decent even after considering the hawaii cost of living. However, you'll just lose your sanity if you keep maintaining that false hope that your money would go just as far as your time back in mainland. Here things are just different and you must accept that fact to survive. That's the conclusion I came up with spending almost a year now.

harrier1231
09-27-2017, 08:24 PM
I am slowly understanding why HAL's management has been focused on hiring guys having ties to HI.
.

I have a question. I currently live somewhere technically more expensive than HI. I've been saving all my pennies to afford my first year if I ever get on at HAL (hopefully they call first, but my app is in elsewhere because eggs, basket...)

I have a friend with a house on the big island. We go out there often, and I'm out there for my job often. People say to use an address on the island but what does that mean? Are they going to be mad when they find out it's my friend's vacation home? Is that too big of a risk since it isn't a huge tie? Should I just get a job at Island air for a year or so?

Moonwolf
09-27-2017, 09:40 PM
I have a question. I currently live somewhere technically more expensive than HI. I've been saving all my pennies to afford my first year if I ever get on at HAL (hopefully they call first, but my app is in elsewhere because eggs, basket...)

I have a friend with a house on the big island. We go out there often, and I'm out there for my job often. People say to use an address on the island but what does that mean? Are they going to be mad when they find out it's my friend's vacation home? Is that too big of a risk since it isn't a huge tie? Should I just get a job at Island air for a year or so?
I wouldn't jump over for anything else than Hawaiian, unless it's an upgrade from your current gig. I've talked to island air guys who interview and are told to go to the mainland to get jet experience, go figure.
The island address may help, might as well try and find out

leeaf7
09-27-2017, 10:32 PM
I have a question. I currently live somewhere technically more expensive than HI. I've been saving all my pennies to afford my first year if I ever get on at HAL (hopefully they call first, but my app is in elsewhere because eggs, basket...)



I have a friend with a house on the big island. We go out there often, and I'm out there for my job often. People say to use an address on the island but what does that mean? Are they going to be mad when they find out it's my friend's vacation home? Is that too big of a risk since it isn't a huge tie? Should I just get a job at Island air for a year or so?



I really donít know if listing a hawaiian address will help or not. Iíve used my parentís midwest address as my permanent address along with my foreign address (i was working for a foreign carrier) - and I got a call on the second try.

Just like any other interviews, it is my guess that telling truth will yield the best result for you. Iíve spent my teen life in the mainland but majority of my life iíve lived in a foreign country with my entire prior experience with a foreign airline. I knew theyíd prefer people with hawaiian ties but i just didnít have any and tried another approach instead; explaining why my family and I need to be in hawaii. Fortunately for me the story fitted without giving any false, misleading details.

I understand your concern and why you are asking this kind of question though. It is without a doubt a very frustrating hiring practice for qualified guys from mainland - itís just plain discriminatory. But at the same time I see a LOT of pilots here who are either from the mainland or with quite some mainland time in the past expressing their frustration (and anger) living in Hawaii. That of course will affect the overall pilot morale and the management clearly doesnít want their pilots to be unhappy while working. So I understand where the management is coming from at the same time.

If I were you, Iíd apply with only the truth showing on the resume. Frankly if your experience is good enough, i think the hiring dept will give you a call regardless of your address and itís gonna be upto you convincing them why you are going to stay with HAL. Good luck in your future endeavors!

ridinhigh
09-28-2017, 09:36 AM
I really don’t know if listing a hawaiian address will help or not. I’ve used my parent’s midwest address as my permanent address along with my foreign address (i was working for a foreign carrier) - and I got a call on the second try.

Just like any other interviews, it is my guess that telling truth will yield the best result for you. I’ve spent my teen life in the mainland but majority of my life i’ve lived in a foreign country with my entire prior experience with a foreign airline. I knew they’d prefer people with hawaiian ties but i just didn’t have any and tried another approach instead; explaining why my family and I need to be in hawaii. Fortunately for me the story fitted without giving any false, misleading details.

I understand your concern and why you are asking this kind of question though. It is without a doubt a very frustrating hiring practice for qualified guys from mainland - it’s just plain discriminatory. But at the same time I see a LOT of pilots here who are either from the mainland or with quite some mainland time in the past expressing their frustration (and anger) living in Hawaii. That of course will affect the overall pilot morale and the management clearly doesn’t want their pilots to be unhappy while working. So I understand where the management is coming from at the same time.

If I were you, I’d apply with only the truth showing on the resume. Frankly if your experience is good enough, i think the hiring dept will give you a call regardless of your address and it’s gonna be upto you convincing them why you are going to stay with HAL. Good luck in your future endeavors!

With the company breaking the Pilot contract at nearly every chance I think they do indeed want their pilots unhappy while working here.

I will second the truth sentiment. If you want to work here despite the Pilot-Management relationship I would stick to the truth. Plenty here with mainland only ties.

CFI2766
09-30-2017, 12:00 PM
With the company breaking the Pilot contract at nearly every chance I think they do indeed want their pilots unhappy while working here.

Please elaborate.

David Puddy
09-30-2017, 05:15 PM
I am currently going through the first year; 717 side. About 85 hours of credit in average per month; take home is about 2400 a month.

1150 sqft apartment I am renting is $2500 a month (plus 400+ for utility) and that's not even close to the town (Honolulu) side.

They all show empathy toward the first year guys and their pay. But frankly that's all you are going to see. Like said above, why would you turn down your money for someone who's not even off probation yet?

I am slowly understanding why HAL's management has been focused on hiring guys having ties to HI. It's rough living out here and you won't last if you keep dwelling on that time you were back in the mainland without having nothing out here to cling onto. Even when you are making 150k or more, housing price nearing a million, private school costing 20k plus a year per kid and etc., you are still not going to quite get into that comfort zone. My wife and I (with kids) are still wondering if we could make ends meet on a second year pay when yearly min salary nears 100k already.

Don't get me wrong. It is still a good company imo and the pay is decent even after considering the hawaii cost of living. However, you'll just lose your sanity if you keep maintaining that false hope that your money would go just as far as your time back in mainland. Here things are just different and you must accept that fact to survive. That's the conclusion I came up with spending almost a year now.

Wow - this is a great an informative post. It is a realistic review of your situation and we need more posts like this. The good thing is that several other legacies are hiring if you want to end your "tour" of the islands..... You have options. :cool:

ArrJay
10-04-2017, 09:56 AM
I understand your concern and why you are asking this kind of question though. It is without a doubt a very frustrating hiring practice for qualified guys from mainland - itís just plain discriminatory. But at the same time I see a LOT of pilots here who are either from the mainland or with quite some mainland time in the past expressing their frustration (and anger) living in Hawaii. That of course will affect the overall pilot morale and the management clearly doesnít want their pilots to be unhappy while working. So I understand where the management is coming from at the same time.


Could you elaborate mainlanders frustrations with living in Hawaii? Is it mostly cost of living issues, schools, and everything stated before or is there scheduling/job expectations that aren't being met? Assuming one moves there after first year is over, in your opinion what expectations would help a transitioning mainlander not be so unhappy?

leeaf7
10-04-2017, 12:48 PM
Could you elaborate mainlanders frustrations with living in Hawaii? Is it mostly cost of living issues, schools, and everything stated before or is there scheduling/job expectations that aren't being met? Assuming one moves there after first year is over, in your opinion what expectations would help a transitioning mainlander not be so unhappy?



It could be different for everyone. I can only assume that it is mainly the money issue. Any house in town (honolulu) side is over a million and we are not even talking about a brand new one but probably one built 20-40 years ago. Even places on the west or central of oahu cost somewhere between 700-900k and they are not 2500-3000 sqft houses but 14-1500 sqft house you can barely fit your wife and couple kids while having you neighbor right. next. to. you. about 6ft away from your window..

A good private schoolís tuition from what i hear is about 20k per kid.. I myself is a public school product and I really do hope that iíll be able to send kids thru HIís public system for their sake but if you just drive around public schools here on this island you are already disappointed about the condition of school buildings and surroundings. No air conditioning for most schools is another thing.

Just those two things mentioned above.. if you do simple math, assuming it is a single family with two children old enough to attend a school: You are looking at somewhere between 5000-8000 bucks a month for your mortgage and two kids attending private schools. And if you are paying that much a month as a fixed cost you can see that even when you are making 150-200k a year, you are still going to be very cautious about your monthly spending.

For me, i have had considerable time in the midwest so of course - being naive and dumb - when I moved into HI after working at a foreign gig i was expecting similar but maybe ďlittle moreĒ expensive and different. But my wife and I quickly realized that itís still gonna be tough after the first year especially being on a 717 side. Good thing is that my wife and I both lived in one of the most expensive asian cities and the financial situation we are in now is very similar to what weíve faced back in Asia. At the end, our kids are much happier than back in the days when we were living in a big polluted city and finally weíve decided that despite all challenges we now have it is still worth a try.

Think about why you wanna come to work for Hawaiian. Is it all the money you could make working for a legacy carrier or is it because you are just so fed up with your current job or some other reason like mine? Depending on what your reason is you may be able to swallow the bitter part and try enjoying your life like I am. Sorry i couldnít give you a straight answer. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

full of luv
10-06-2017, 03:23 PM
Could you elaborate mainlanders frustrations with living in Hawaii? Is it mostly cost of living issues, schools, and everything stated before or is there scheduling/job expectations that aren't being met? Assuming one moves there after first year is over, in your opinion what expectations would help a transitioning mainlander not be so unhappy?

It's been a few years, but used to be that about 17% of Hawaii residents sent their kids to private school.

BUT: 87% of Hawaii's state senators/reps sent their kids to private school.

How do you think that works out?

full of luv
10-06-2017, 03:27 PM
Could you elaborate mainlanders frustrations with living in Hawaii? Is it mostly cost of living issues, schools, and everything stated before or is there scheduling/job expectations that aren't being met? Assuming one moves there after first year is over, in your opinion what expectations would help a transitioning mainlander not be so unhappy?

When I lived there, because of a tiff with the teachers union over budget cuts, they CANCELLED EVERY Friday of public schools, all over the state, for the WHOLE YEAR.

No one seemed to have much of a problem with it though, the general attitude is "if you loved your kids or they had aptitude, they'd be in private school already".

Southbay
10-06-2017, 05:55 PM
Itís not just schools, or the $1 million dollar price tag for a 40-80 year old single wall construction pier and post termite eaten house.

Things are different in HI than anywhere else on the mainland. Some people can adjust and some canít. Plenty of stores and restaurants do not have locations in HI. Many places will not ship things to HI. Many times for inexpensive items, if you can find a company to send it to HI the shipping will be more expensive than the item. Have you seen the traffic? Have you ever lived in a state that does major road construction during the middle of the day?

Anyway, thatís a few off the top of my head but there are many frustrating things in HI that could be and are done more efficiently on the mainland.

All that being said itís a beautiful state with wonderful people, but itís really not like any other state for a variety of reasons. Some adjust and love it, some hate it and leave after a few years.


When I lived there, because of a tiff with the teachers union over budget cuts, they CANCELLED EVERY Friday of public schools, all over the state, for the WHOLE YEAR.

No one seemed to have much of a problem with it though, the general attitude is "if you loved your kids or they had aptitude, they'd be in private school already".