Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




friend
09-16-2017, 09:24 PM
A friend of mine who just completed training at skywest just told me how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.


Turbosina
09-16-2017, 09:48 PM
Seriously?

VIRotate
09-16-2017, 10:56 PM
We all know who has been drinking tonight.

Trolling almost as hard as EdwinR JAJAJAJJAJAJAJJAJAJAJA


MadDog80
09-17-2017, 05:37 PM
A friend of mine who just completed training at skywest just told me how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.

Thanks for posting! As many have told me before there are plenty of negative self-pitying sad sacks that trying and spread their misery in these forums but for people like you and me its comforting and exciting hearing positive things like this. I'll hopefully be going to ground school soon myself and this definitely helps. Everyone I've come in contact with at Skywest minus the miserable trolls that hang around these forums mocking positivity has been amazing. :D

rickair7777
09-17-2017, 07:33 PM
As distastefully dooshy as the OP comes across...he's right.

SKW training is pretty good from the pilot perspective, and they'll accommodate new hires with plenty of extra training.

For example, its better than most majors.

That said, there are PLENTY of good reasons not to drink the rest of the coolaid. SKW is a great place to get your time and then GTFO, but no longer a good career destination.

Strenyakov
09-17-2017, 09:20 PM
Are there any regionals that don't have good training these days? Don't they all give extra training if needed? If not they should unless the person doesn't have a prayer.

But when Air Wisconsin is paying $40k in bonuses over the first year and Endeavor is paying something similar, is Skywest really competitive?

I would be inclined to go where the biggest bonus is, even if the upgrade is longer. I expect there to be regionals hiring street captains or close to it pretty regularly the next few years. So one could take the 40k in bonuses (or more at some places) and in a couple of years take an even bigger bonus going somewhere else as a captain.

WesternSkies
09-18-2017, 12:08 AM
do it .

VIRotate
09-18-2017, 03:28 AM
There are airlines that will give you like 10 extra sims...good training or poor pilot performance? Not necessarily a positive. 1 or 2 extra? Okay maybe you had a bad day. After that it's excessive. Essentially giving guys that can't pass training a better chance to fly a jet and fill seats for the company...

Duesenflieger
09-18-2017, 04:58 AM
The best training is provided by the U.S.A.F.

zondaracer
09-18-2017, 05:47 AM
The best training is provided by the U.S.A.F.

True, but apples and oranges.

rickair7777
09-18-2017, 06:41 AM
There are airlines that will give you like 10 extra sims...good training or poor pilot performance? Not necessarily a positive. 1 or 2 extra? Okay maybe you had a bad day. After that it's excessive. Essentially giving guys that can't pass training a better chance to fly a jet and fill seats for the company...

That's what I used to think. But I've seen older pilots, and pilots with extensive non jet experience who just need more time to get there. They do pretty good one they get some experience. Most of them.

VIRotate
09-18-2017, 07:40 AM
That's what I used to think. But I've seen older pilots, and pilots with extensive non jet experience who just need more time to get there. They do pretty good one they get some experience. Most of them.

True. Usually the ones who really can't do it can't get passed IOE. Usually too far behind the plane and never catch up. Happened to a guy in my class sadly. They did give him like 40 hours of OE too...

amcnd
09-18-2017, 07:46 AM
True. Usually the ones who really can't do it can't get passed IOE. Usually too far behind the plane and never catch up. Happened to a guy in my class sadly. They did give him like 40 hours of OE too...

Heard they are "tweaking" the ground/sim training. More loft style training... (line oriented flight training)

WesternSkies
09-18-2017, 09:04 AM
That's what I used to think. But I've seen older pilots, and pilots with extensive non jet experience who just need more time to get there. They do pretty good one they get some experience. Most of them.

Truth .

NormalAbnormal
09-18-2017, 09:43 AM
A friend of mine who just completed training at skywest just told me how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.

This describes every training program I've been through - Regional, Legacy, Part 135 and even my PPL and CMI.

Jet Jockey 00
09-18-2017, 09:52 AM
This describes every training program I've been through - Regional, Legacy, Part 135 and even my PPL and CMI.

Exactly. A newbie professing it's the best training. I'm sure he observed every regional training department before making his post. :roll eyes:

What about after training. All you care about is pay rates. How is SW pay compared to other regionals?

Keep drinking the KoolAid!

WesternSkies
09-18-2017, 12:17 PM
This describes every training program I've been through - Regional, Legacy, Part 135 and even my PPL and CMI.

You've led a charmed career then.

USMCFLYR
09-18-2017, 12:33 PM
The best training is provided by the U.S.A.F.
I would change that to read the U.S.?.?.

gainzbruh
09-18-2017, 05:29 PM
i heard you failed out

TurbineDriver
09-18-2017, 07:49 PM
Rickair7777 where do you work these days? I know you were a long time OO guy but curious as to your whereabouts these days.

NormalAbnormal
09-19-2017, 09:50 AM
You've led a charmed career then.

I think 4 diverse air carriers is a large enough sample to at least say my experience is not atypical.

Nevjets
09-19-2017, 10:10 AM
Does Skywest still have the three strikes and out and the up or out?

friend
09-19-2017, 12:16 PM
What's the 3 strike out rule, and all training is not the same. Go to gojet and see how bad their training is or pinnacle, compass, commutair. Training is not bad just they try to fill your mouth with a hose of information and then your on your own. Their is no real structure and no real good quality instructors who really care to invest and help the new hire like skywest does. I'm no koolaid for skywest and they have their issues but there in house training is really structured and aimed to help pass and get every new hire on the line as competent line pilots.

gainzbruh
09-19-2017, 01:54 PM
you get to fail the systems test and your checkride three times before they fire you.

rickair7777
09-19-2017, 03:34 PM
Does Skywest still have the three strikes and out and the up or out?

you get to fail the systems test and your checkride three times before they fire you.

You get two failures in any combination of the systems test and AQP checkride and still get retrained to try again. Third failure you're out.

Repeating other training events is not unlimited, but does not count against the three strikes. I do not recall if MV counts as a checkride for new-hires.

They will not sign you off if you're going to fail the checkride, so you're more likely to get additional sim training than to get a strike.

"Up or out" has been gone for many years.

amcnd
09-19-2017, 05:51 PM
You get two failures in any combination of the systems test and AQP checkride and still get retrained to try again. Third failure you're out.

Repeating other training events is not unlimited, but does not count against the three strikes. I do not recall if MV counts as a checkride for new-hires.

They will not sign you off if you're going to fail the checkride, so you're more likely to get additional sim training than to get a strike.

"Up or out" has been gone for many years.

Training termination is less then 1% I'm told... and i just saw a guy that that happened to. He’s back. He went to Mesa for 9 months. Got some experience and he’s back flying at SkyWest..

rickair7777
09-19-2017, 05:56 PM
Training termination is less then 1%

That's what it used to be, when they were more rigorous in the interview (sim, etc).

I understand now it's higher, just due to letting more folks "give it a whirl" in training. Monthly attrition of very low seniority numbers looked higher than 1%.

gojo
09-20-2017, 05:54 AM
What's the 3 strike out rule, and all training is not the same. Go to gojet and see how bad their training is or pinnacle, compass, commutair. Training is not bad just they try to fill your mouth with a hose of information and then your on your own. Their is no real structure and no real good quality instructors who really care to invest and help the new hire like skywest does. I'm no koolaid for skywest and they have their issues but there in house training is really structured and aimed to help pass and get every new hire on the line as competent line pilots.

Dude, where have you been? Pinnacle is long gone.

friend
09-20-2017, 09:09 AM
My correction endeavor

VIRotate
09-20-2017, 10:16 AM
What's the 3 strike out rule, and all training is not the same. Go to gojet and see how bad their training is or pinnacle, compass, commutair. Training is not bad just they try to fill your mouth with a hose of information and then your on your own. Their is no real structure and no real good quality instructors who really care to invest and help the new hire like skywest does. I'm no koolaid for skywest and they have their issues but there in house training is really structured and aimed to help pass and get every new hire on the line as competent line pilots.

To be honest it sounds like you failed out of one airlines training program and have a grudge...then you did well at OO because they held your hand. Just saying man.

friend
09-20-2017, 12:51 PM
The info that I was stating was about my friend who just completed training with OO, not me. He also mentioned that he has a friend at mesa and they also have quality inhouse training.

No failures for anyone they just felt that it was refreshing to have a training program at skywest that actually tries to teach rather then just read out massive information and you learn on your own. Having a initial good ground and sim instructor makes a huge difference in the success rate of passing initial training

VIRotate
09-20-2017, 01:10 PM
The info that I was stating was about my friend who just completed training with OO, not me. He also mentioned that he has a friend at mesa and they also have quality inhouse training.

No failures for anyone they just felt that it was refreshing to have a training program at skywest that actually tries to teach rather then just read out massive information and you learn on your own. Having a initial good ground and sim instructor makes a huge difference in the success rate of passing initial training

Ah your friend then. Honestly I think that most AQP airlines are the same. They all have the same program approved by the feds. I know the people struggle with the training program at CPZ because it was a refugee airline and it's tailored for guys with previous 121 time. 1500 CFIs often struggle with it and I will admit that it needs improvement because we are no longer getting ex-121 guys.

amcnd
09-20-2017, 02:28 PM
As long as its “in house” line pilots doing FTD/SIM. Heard airlines that outsource that the quality goes down...

Blackwing
09-20-2017, 10:43 PM
SkyWest's training is so awesome some newhires need as much as 100 hours to get through IOE!

amcnd
09-21-2017, 05:10 AM
SkyWest's training is so awesome some newhires need as much as 100 hours to get through IOE!

Thats just a few a year... under 5 people.. out of 800+ hired thats a very small percentage...

Broncofan
09-22-2017, 05:03 AM
Thats just a few a year... under 5 people.. out of 800+ hired thats a very small percentage...

I can say without a doubt Skywest training is better than Uniteds training. Granted everyone there had a lot of experience, but military guys with no prior 121 had a really rough time getting through it at times. It's more of a "here's your cbt, come back in a week and we will take a test" kind of training.

DLocked
09-24-2017, 04:20 AM
The training materials are good - better than Delta's according to a friend there.

The long breaks in the middle of sim training, before IOE, and even during IOE set students up for failure according to the LCA's and other pilot friends. That's been the biggest disappointment.

There are some good instructors and some really bad ones at Skywest. Unfortunately there's no mechanism for identifying the bad ones. Many instructors do not differentiate between sim partners so if you have a bad partner then you are screwed.

gainzbruh
09-24-2017, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=DLocked;2435175]The training materials are good - better than Delta's according to a friend there.

The long breaks in the middle of sim training, before IOE, and even during IOE set students up for failure according to the LCA's and other pilot friends. That's been the biggest disappointment.



-most of us had a month wait for ioe. study EVERYTHING, and ask your lca questions when you show up. call him/her the night before you start your ioe trip to introduce yourself and clear any questions up. that sets the tone for how things are going to go. if people aren't studying and sit around for a month doing nothing and fail their line check or need extra ioe because of it, that's their own fault.

rickair7777
09-24-2017, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE=DLocked;2435175]The training materials are good - better than Delta's according to a friend there.

The long breaks in the middle of sim training, before IOE, and even during IOE set students up for failure according to the LCA's and other pilot friends. That's been the biggest disappointment.



-most of us had a month wait for ioe. study EVERYTHING, and ask your lca questions when you show up. call him/her the night before you start your ioe trip to introduce yourself and clear any questions up. that sets the tone for how things are going to go. if people aren't studying and sit around for a month doing nothing and fail their line check or need extra ioe because of it, that's their own fault.

Spend 30 minutes every day chair flying one leg plus some abnormals. Review mems & lims. Then put that crap away and enjoy the day off! If you don't, you'll wish you had soon enough...

BTW, you can chair-fly in Hawaii...or Paris, or Barcelona, or Bangkok, or Florence, etc.

Check Complete
09-24-2017, 03:52 PM
Heard they are "tweaking" the ground/sim training. More loft style training... (line oriented flight training)


Yep, reducing ground school by a third of the time. Very little systems training and going to scenario type training.


Because the average pilot is coming with lots more time, experience, and real life emergency experiences. (tons of sarcasm)


But it's true, big reduction in the training footprint with lots of shift to self training via cbt's.

Good luck all!

OregonAviator
09-24-2017, 11:36 PM
[QUOTE=DLocked;2435175]The training materials are good - better than Delta's according to a friend there.

The long breaks in the middle of sim training, before IOE, and even during IOE set students up for failure according to the LCA's and other pilot friends. That's been the biggest disappointment.



-most of us had a month wait for ioe. study EVERYTHING, and ask your lca questions when you show up. call him/her the night before you start your ioe trip to introduce yourself and clear any questions up. that sets the tone for how things are going to go. if people aren't studying and sit around for a month doing nothing and fail their line check or need extra ioe because of it, that's their own fault.


The fact that you even sit around for a month waiting for IOE tells me your training needs work because that's literally setting somebody up for failure, even Horizon air yes horizon recognizes this and try's to avoid this issue. Even if you chair fly everyday the fact you're not constantly in a learning environment or actively flying is going to hurt you in some way, others won't have as much a issue but there shouldn't be any delays. I literally started IOE two days after my sim check and I'm happy I jumped right into it and passed with flying colors. Unless you've worked at another regional let me tell you the training may be good at Skywest and I won't take that away from you guys but to say it's the best in the industry lmao.

amcnd
09-25-2017, 05:58 AM
Our FAA cmo can only handle 6 new check airmen rides a month... that slows it down... we lost a ton of CKA this summer...
On the bright side they just rand a CKA class last week..

rickair7777
09-25-2017, 06:39 AM
[QUOTE=gainzbruh;2435440]


The fact that you even sit around for a month waiting for IOE tells me your training needs work because that's literally setting somebody up for failure, even Horizon air yes horizon recognizes this and try's to avoid this issue. Even if you chair fly everyday the fact you're not constantly in a learning environment or actively flying is going to hurt you in some way, others won't have as much a issue but there shouldn't be any delays. I literally started IOE two days after my sim check and I'm happy I jumped right into it and passed with flying colors. Unless you've worked at another regional let me tell you the training may be good at Skywest and I won't take that away from you guys but to say it's the best in the industry lmao.

Our FAA cmo can only handle 6 new check airmen rides a month... that slows it down... we lost a ton of CKA this summer...
On the bright side they just rand a CKA class last week..

The issue really is the FAA.

1) They only allow X% of a pilot group to be qualified as LCAs.
2) Whenever CKA turnover occurs, there is a bottle-neck with the FAA to make new ones.

So X% is designed for steady-state ops. But with high attrition/growth, you need more than X%, but you actually have less than X% available.

Since CKA availability is the "long pole" in the tent, they want to have a pool of trainees available so they never waste a CKA by flying him without a trainee.

amcnd
09-25-2017, 06:43 AM
The ioe backup should be getting better. They are running CKA classes all fall..

DLocked
09-25-2017, 11:01 AM
[QUOTE=OregonAviator;2435594]

The issue really is the FAA.



I beg to differ. Management should have shrunk the classes to match what the training can handle. And that doesn't explain the overbooked sims that led to a 5 day break in the middle of 5 days of maneuvers.

Most people were up to 6-8 weeks wait for IOE even before the summer hit.

I would never have come to SkyWest had I known it was going to take 5-6 months to get to the line. They should have delayed our class until they were ready for us. Absolute bullsh*it. Most people in my class felt the same way.

OregonAviator
09-25-2017, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE=rickair7777;2435651]

I beg to differ. Management should have shrunk the classes to match what the training can handle. And that doesn't explain the overbooked sims that led to a 5 day break in the middle of 5 days of maneuvers.

Most people were up to 6-8 weeks wait for IOE even before the summer hit.

I would never have come to SkyWest had I known it was going to take 5-6 months to get to the line. They should have delayed our class until they were ready for us. Absolute bullsh*it. Most people in my class felt the same way.


That sucks Man sorry to hear that happen. Hopefully it still isn't that way so people can move right along and get on with flying.

friend
09-25-2017, 01:20 PM
What is cbt?

amcnd
09-25-2017, 01:31 PM
What is cbt?

“Computer based training “

I’ve seen some of the stuff they are working on. Honestly its way better then the days of the white board and 1997 (SkyWest)Comair PowerPoint slides...

Jonneaux
09-25-2017, 03:44 PM
The ioe backup should be getting better. They are running CKA classes all fall..

Just did IOE with a guy who was 3 days SIM to IOE. Long delays are not good, but I don't think anyone has failed IOE due to the delay. More work for the LCA, but after a day or two, no matter. I know of more people who enjoyed the paid vacation.

DLocked
09-26-2017, 04:55 AM
Just did IOE with a guy who was 3 days SIM to IOE. Long delays are not good, but I don't think anyone has failed IOE due to the delay. More work for the LCA, but after a day or two, no matter. I know of more people who enjoyed the paid vacation.

I know guys who did their LOE in June and still haven't flown the 200 for IOE yet.

Jonneaux
09-26-2017, 09:49 AM
I know guys who did their LOE in June and still haven't flown the 200 for IOE yet.

So they spent their summer on paid vacation. Sweet!

I don't know what is going on with that side of the house. The 175 is caught up.

RemoveB4Flight
09-26-2017, 10:05 AM
The 175 is caught up.

For now...

WesternSkies
09-26-2017, 10:50 AM
I know guys who did their LOE in June and still haven't flown the 200 for IOE yet.

Is “200” a qualifier as in they have done 700 or 900 OE?

DLocked
09-29-2017, 03:12 PM
Is “200” a qualifier as in they have done 700 or 900 OE?

Some fly the 7/9 before the 200 but can't be released to the line until their 200 check. Getting to the line is key, obviously, so they can fly trips while waiting for OOE on the 7/9.

gojo
10-10-2017, 02:42 PM
How can anyone claim that? Is there some sort of a JD Power award for regional training departments?

Poser765
10-13-2017, 12:45 PM
How can anyone claim that? Is there some sort of a JD Power award for regional training departments?Using your eyes? When you guys take off it looks much smoother than anyone else's takeoff!

WesternSkies
10-13-2017, 12:52 PM
A good flight starts with a good rotation

Truthanator
10-13-2017, 01:31 PM
[
I beg to differ. Management should have shrunk the classes to match what the training can handle. And that doesn't explain the overbooked sims that led to a 5 day break in the middle of 5 days of maneuvers.

Most people were up to 6-8 weeks wait for IOE even before the summer hit.

I would never have come to SkyWest had I known it was going to take 5-6 months to get to the line. They should have delayed our class until they were ready for us. Absolute bullsh*it. Most people in my class felt the same way.

Oh noes! You poor, poor thing! I hope you are going to be okay?
How will you ever overcome this terrible dilemma? How could Skywest do something like this to you? It's a travesty! Please tell us your mommy is there to help soothe your tired hands after holding them out for so long?

You new hires have it so rough now! Stand up! Don't tolerate this abuse! You deserve everything you want and you should have had it yesterday! Get your mommies and daddies involved! Go straight to the top!

Duesenflieger
10-13-2017, 02:24 PM
Oh noes! You poor, poor thing! I hope you are going to be okay?
How will you ever overcome this terrible dilemma? How could Skywest do something like this to you? It's a travesty! Please tell us your mommy is there to help soothe your tired hands after holding them out for so long?

You new hires have it so rough now! Stand up! Don't tolerate this abuse! You deserve everything you want and you should have had it yesterday! Get your mommies and daddies involved! Go straight to the top!


....Really not surprised that you have not been able to move on after twenty years at the regionals.... With your attitude, you will always stay at the bottom.

Truthanator
10-13-2017, 07:28 PM
....Really not surprised that you have not been able to move on after twenty years at the regionals.... With your attitude, you will always stay at the bottom.

Haha! It's Douchyfluffywhiner! Imagine that?
Why are you in here every day?

Currently the only bottom I am familiar with is on a 27 year old Italian girl.:cool:

Duesenflieger
10-14-2017, 01:23 PM
Haha! It's Douchyfluffywhiner! Imagine that?
Why are you in here every day?

Currently the only bottom I am familiar with is on a 27 year old Italian girl.:cool:

Laaaammmeeeeeeee

450knotOffice
10-20-2017, 10:24 PM
Oh noes! You poor, poor thing! I hope you are going to be okay?
How will you ever overcome this terrible dilemma? How could Skywest do something like this to you? It's a travesty! Please tell us your mommy is there to help soothe your tired hands after holding them out for so long?

You new hires have it so rough now! Stand up! Don't tolerate this abuse! You deserve everything you want and you should have had it yesterday! Get your mommies and daddies involved! Go straight to the top!

One of the stupidest posts I've ever read on an airline forum.

But, after reading through your history, it's completely consistent with your holier than thou and very tired "you're a whiny millennial" mantra.

And don't even come back with your whiny and tried and true "millenial" attitude to me, because I've been in this industry for over 30 years, so...

Definitely nowhere near a millennial.

Probably older and CERTAINLY wiser than you. Happier too, considering the tone of the vast majority of your posts.

I'm just calling you out as the miserable, know it all troll you are.

Mercyful Fate
10-21-2017, 04:38 AM
One of the stupidest posts I've ever read on an airline forum.

But, after reading through your history, it's completely consistent with your holier than thou and very tired "you're a whiny millennial" mantra.

And don't even come back with your whiny and tried and true "millenial" attitude to me, because I've been in this industry for over 30 years, so...

Definitely nowhere near a millennial.

Probably older and CERTAINLY wiser than you. Happier too, considering the tone of the vast majority of your posts.

I'm just calling you out as the miserable, know it all troll you are.

Wow, I hope this wasn't supposed to be serious. Because if it was....

http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

Check Complete
10-21-2017, 01:59 PM
The CRJ training side just got approved for a complete wholesale change, and not for the better, unless your a stockholder. The final class exam is way harder and the bulk of it is self taught from CBT's. You fail it, goes on your PRIA, there forever like a tattoo. Fail it twice and your fired, explain that to Delta. The next 6 months are going to be brutal!

I would think twice before coming here and if you do, go to mainline (the 175)!

rickair7777
10-21-2017, 02:39 PM
Bottom feeders are evolving to use a certain retention tactic... hire unsuspecting suckers, throw them in a brutal training regime and ensure they fail at least one reportable event. Drag them out of the fire at the last moment, dust them off, and send them to the line. They're now stuck for the duration, although odds are that even DAL will have to lower their standards eventually.

But I don't know why SKW would do that with the CRJ while the ERJ is such a cake-walk. My guess is that when the dust settles, the CRJ program will be different but not any harder.

trip
10-21-2017, 05:37 PM
The CRJ training side just got approved for a complete wholesale change, and not for the better, unless your a stockholder. The final class exam is way harder and the bulk of it is self taught from CBT's. You fail it, goes on your PRIA, there forever like a tattoo. Fail it twice and your fired, explain that to Delta. The next 6 months are going to be brutal!

I would think twice before coming here and if you do, go to mainline (the 175)!

Just as other airlines (at least one major included) and their FAA counterparts are debating stepping back from the CBT and taking another look after disappointing results.

rickair7777
10-21-2017, 06:35 PM
Just as other airlines (at least one major included) and their FAA counterparts are debating stepping back from the CBT and taking another look after disappointing results.


CBT's only work if you have your brain engaged and the systems manual open while you're doing them. They don't work if you complete them with an auto-clicker.

flyusmc53d
10-22-2017, 06:09 AM
For those who completed CTP recently, did you have enough time to study for your ATP written during, or was there CTP specific homework and/or exams that kept you busy? Thank you.

JetDoc
10-22-2017, 08:31 AM
Bottom feeders are evolving to use a certain retention tactic... hire unsuspecting suckers, throw them in a brutal training regime and ensure they fail at least one reportable event. Drag them out of the fire at the last moment, dust them off, and send them to the line. They're now stuck for the duration, although odds are that even DAL will have to lower their standards eventually.

But I don't know why SKW would do that with the CRJ while the ERJ is such a cake-walk. My guess is that when the dust settles, the CRJ program will be different but not any harder.

Wow, that's ethical.

Truthanator
10-22-2017, 09:04 AM
One of the stupidest posts I've ever read on an airline forum.

But, after reading through your history, it's completely consistent with your holier than thou and very tired "you're a whiny millennial" mantra.

And don't even come back with your whiny and tried and true "millenial" attitude to me, because I've been in this industry for over 30 years, so...

Definitely nowhere near a millennial.

Probably older and CERTAINLY wiser than you. Happier too, considering the tone of the vast majority of your posts.

I'm just calling you out as the miserable, know it all troll you are.

You went back and read all of my posts?

Awwwwww!

https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTniMqpYz1KJ5Wik/giphy.gif

pete2800
10-22-2017, 08:46 PM
What is cbt?

"I know enough about airline training to make an assertion that this one place has the BEST training in the regional industry."



"What is CBT?"





Dude. :confused:

VIRotate
10-22-2017, 08:53 PM
"I know enough about airline training to make an assertion that this one place has the BEST training in the regional industry."



"What is CBT?"





Dude. :confused:

This. You can't make this stuff up. I swear this thread is an embarrassment to OO. I can just imagine all the eye rolling as OAL guys scroll past it.

OP...OAL stands for Other Airline. :rolleyes:

friend
10-23-2017, 08:32 PM
pete2800:

A FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of mine who just completed training at skywest just TOLD ME how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.


Peepee2800 get a life dude!!!!

Aurora8
10-24-2017, 06:46 PM
I went through initial (CRJ) in May and found it was 'okay' (had to drink a LOT of kool aid). I think we were the first group that had to use the "Matrix" to learn flows, etc., instead of a proper sim or procedures trainer; it - the Matrix - was a waste of time IMO. We also got less sim time than previous groups (according to our sim instructor).

Aurora8
10-24-2017, 07:38 PM
Training termination is less then 1% I'm told... and i just saw a guy that that happened to. He’s back. He went to Mesa for 9 months. Got some experience and he’s back flying at SkyWest..

So he got to cruise above FL370? :p

Tpinks
10-24-2017, 07:48 PM
pete2800:

A FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of mine who just completed training at skywest just TOLD ME how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.


Peepee2800 get a life dude!!!!

Dude, you literally just copied and pasted your intial post word for word.

WesternSkies
10-24-2017, 09:44 PM
I went through initial (CRJ) in May and found it was 'okay' (had to drink a LOT of kool aid). I think we were the first group that had to use the "Matrix" to learn flows, etc., instead of a proper sim or procedures trainer; it - the Matrix - was a waste of time IMO. We also got less sim time than previous groups (according to our sim instructor).

FTD/sim has always been too valuable for something like flows. Flow validation has been on the matrix for years.

Matrix has advantages over the paper tiger but definitely has its limits.

rickair7777
10-24-2017, 10:02 PM
I went through initial (CRJ) in May and found it was 'okay' (had to drink a LOT of kool aid). I think we were the first group that had to use the "Matrix" to learn flows, etc., instead of a proper sim or procedures trainer; it - the Matrix - was a waste of time IMO. We also got less sim time than previous groups (according to our sim instructor).

Nobody uses a sim for flows, waaaay too expensive. When I started it was posters taped to the wall, then cardboard mockups. The matrix came later, and is nice because it shows you how the systems respond.

RemoveB4Flight
10-25-2017, 12:58 PM
As others have said, whoever told you flows used to be done in the sim is misinformed or you misunderstood them. Flows have always been done on the paper tiger, and more recently (the last few years) on the matrix.

pete2800
10-25-2017, 01:03 PM
pete2800:

A FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of mine who just completed training at skywest just TOLD ME how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.


Peepee2800 get a life dude!!!!

Then let your friend post, rookie.

How many other airlines has your 'friend' received training at?

Aurora8
10-27-2017, 01:38 AM
As others have said, whoever told you flows used to be done in the sim is misinformed or you misunderstood them. Flows have always been done on the paper tiger, and more recently (the last few years) on the matrix.

I should've been clearer: our first 4 days at Flight Safety were in an upgraded, 'fancy' version of the Matrix actually 'flying' - not doing flows; was that always the case? And we were told we were doing less actual sim sessions than previous classes...

Geardownflaps30
10-27-2017, 03:12 AM
A friend of mine who just completed training at skywest just told me how great the training program is at skywest. They really work with you and want to help you as long as you have a good attitude and try to work hard.

Skywest will give you extra sim lessons if needed and also extra IOE if needed and even in initial ground if one fails indoc, systems, or oral they will help you pass.

Even though skywest doesn't pay that much and they don't have a union and starting pay is not 41/hr and no bonus at least they provide quality training and make a new hire a competent line pilot.

And how many training programs have they been through to compare to so as to create an informed opinion?

RemoveB4Flight
10-27-2017, 05:03 AM
I should've been clearer: our first 4 days at Flight Safety were in an upgraded, 'fancy' version of the Matrix actually 'flying' - not doing flows; was that always the case? And we were told we were doing less actual sim sessions than previous classes...

So did you do flows training, “fancy” matrix, then sim?
How many days of actual sim did you have?

Jonneaux
10-27-2017, 06:24 AM
So did you do flows training, “fancy” matrix, then sim?
How many days of actual sim did you have?

Anyone remember sitting in a chair, staring at a poster on a wall?

RemoveB4Flight
10-27-2017, 07:02 AM
Anyone remember sitting in a chair, staring at a poster on a wall?

Yep.
.....

WesternSkies
10-27-2017, 07:13 AM
I should've been clearer: our first 4 days at Flight Safety were in an upgraded, 'fancy' version of the Matrix actually 'flying' - not doing flows; was that always the case? And we were told we were doing less actual sim sessions than previous classes...

What plane are you on?

I’m up to speed.
Matrix/ FTD / Sim.

We didn’t have a CRJ Flight Training Device, so we sat in the actual sim with the motion off for FTD.
My instructor turned motion on anyway so it would have seemed like more sim sessions.

Slaphappy
10-27-2017, 07:40 AM
Mock him all you want but the training is probably the best in the industry, thanks largely due to the econimics of scale skywest has.

Turbosina
10-27-2017, 08:24 AM
Anyone remember sitting in a chair, staring at a poster on a wall?

Oh yes indeed.

trip
10-27-2017, 08:48 AM
Oh yes indeed.

I believe you were handed your own personnel cockpit poster first or second day of class, it went up on the hotel room wall. I still have a Brasilla one somewhere.
It worked, your sim partner would sit next to you and we called it chair flying.

WaterRooster
10-27-2017, 09:38 AM
I believe you were handed your own personnel cockpit poster first or second day of class, it went up on the hotel room wall. I still have a Brasilla one somewhere.
It worked, your sim partner would sit next to you and we called it chair flying.

2015 they did that and we had the matrix too. I have mine still

domino
10-27-2017, 10:43 AM
paper posters probably worked fine but now we need to spoon feed the current generation. Skywest training is excellent. But we still lose many. Even the spoon feed method isn't enough for the me generation sometimes.

awakenedpilot
10-27-2017, 04:51 PM
paper posters probably worked fine but now we need to spoon feed the current generation. Skywest training is excellent. But we still lose many. Even the spoon feed method isn't enough for the me generation sometimes.



Or, as I had in my class, you have a few folks from an older generation doing this as a second career who have always flown cessnas and nothing else. They too need some extra help with the technology that glass cockpit provides. The MEs at least pick up the technology part sooner with the FMS programming and automation. The students we lost in my class were actually of the older generation. It goes both ways though for sure. A combo of current hiring and generational issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Check Complete
10-27-2017, 05:29 PM
The failure rate is going to skyrocket with the new curriculum.

rickair7777
10-27-2017, 05:37 PM
Or, as I had in my class, you have a few folks from an older generation doing this as a second career who have always flown cessnas and nothing else. They too need some extra help with the technology that glass cockpit provides. The MEs at least pick up the technology part sooner with the FMS programming and automation. The students we lost in my class were actually of the older generation. It goes both ways though for sure. A combo of current hiring and generational issues.

This hits it on the head. At this point in time the folks who struggle are young millenials (work ethic) and baby boomers (old, slow dogs).

Gen X and older millenials (who have life experience to offset the failures of their upbringing) do fine in general.

For clarity, millenials do not have a monopoly on youthful sloth and bad attitudes... they are just the current, and probably most distinct, example in our memory.

Pokeysrider
10-27-2017, 06:04 PM
For those who completed CTP recently, did you have enough time to study for your ATP written during, or was there CTP specific homework and/or exams that kept you busy? Thank you.
Homework wasn’t much (nonexistent). Pay attention and be engaged in class, as there really is worthwhile material being presented in between the airplane crash videos. Study for your written at night with Sheppard. Good luck and welcome aboard wherever you land.

Aurora8
10-27-2017, 08:09 PM
What plane are you on?

I’m up to speed.
Matrix/ FTD / Sim.

We didn’t have a CRJ Flight Training Device, so we sat in the actual sim with the motion off for FTD.
My instructor turned motion on anyway so it would have seemed like more sim sessions.

CRJ
I'm not saying the Matrix wasn't suitable or good enough, or the training was somehow substandard - just what my group did and how we were told it differed from earlier groups. (My sim partner and I still used the 'paper tiger' as well.)

I just would've preferred more FTD and less Matrix - it's always more fun when you can actually push buttons and they do something! This was the first type rating I've done (fifth) where you didn't start in the FTD...

Flyinlynn
10-27-2017, 09:10 PM
Anyone here currently in training? My class just finished systems. They said we were the next to last class for the current training program. The last class just finished Indoc.

I am starting Sim next week. Any pointers, recommendations or suggestions?

Thanks

amcnd
10-27-2017, 09:23 PM
Anyone here currently in training? My class just finished systems. They said we were the next to last class for the current training program. The last class just finished Indoc.

I am starting Sim next week. Any pointers, recommendations or suggestions?

Thanks

EFB > company manuals > CRJ training resources.. tons of info on the different study stuff in there... tile 27,26

rickair7777
10-27-2017, 09:41 PM
Anyone here currently in training? My class just finished systems. They said we were the next to last class for the current training program. The last class just finished Indoc.

I am starting Sim next week. Any pointers, recommendations or suggestions?

Thanks

You can stress, and stay up all night cramming for systems if that's how you roll.

Don't do that for sim though, you're going to need to be sharp and well rested.

Good news is that the days are short, so you have time to rest, relax, exercise and study. Healthy diet is important (ie brain food). No hard drinking although a nightcap (or two max) might help you sleep.

Review what you'll be doing in advance for each session. Anything you seem to struggle with review every single day, even if you're not doing it that day.

Approach profiles and flows are easy, you can chair fly those all you need, since they're all about procedures not stick and rudder. Chair fly with your sim partner. If your partner for some reason is too busy or doesn't want to play, this is the one and only time you snitch... tell the instructor that you're not able to prepare because your buddy is not participating. That way if you struggle, they'll hopefully adjust the training environment.

What's harder are maneuvers (including landings and V1 cuts)... you have limited full motion time to practice those. If you struggle with one or more, you MUST identify a detailed process and study that hard (instructor will help). You can't wait until the last minute because you need to know the process cold early so that you can benefit from the sim time to practice. If you finally figure out HOW to do a maneuver on the second-to-last sim you might not have time to practice it and then you're at risk on the checkride. People rarely bust on maneuvers which they've been solid on for five days... it's the one they finally pulled together on the last training day, but then regress on checkride day. Try to spot that coming and head it off at the pass.

The goal is to shine on each training day as well as the checkride. Instructors talk and you don't want to have a "reputation" around the building.

The worst thing you can do is have a bad attitude. The second worst is not be prepared. Third worst is "well that's not how we did it mesa..."

If you bust they'll likely get you through on the makeup, but then you have a 121 pink and your legacy interview just got delayed by five years... $$$

Flyinlynn
10-28-2017, 09:22 AM
Great suggestions thanks!

Originally I thought I had the 12:00 start but looks like it was changed to 16:00 and a couple sessions start at 20:00 good thing I am a night owl.

awakenedpilot
10-28-2017, 01:09 PM
Great suggestions thanks!



Originally I thought I had the 12:00 start but looks like it was changed to 16:00 and a couple sessions start at 20:00 good thing I am a night owl.



The callouts on approaches, missed approaches, takeoffs, v1 cuts are getting a lot of people. When you’re not chairflying with your partner, draw them out on paper with your flight path, write each callout at each point and practice them to aid your chair flying. Walk around your room as you get dinner ready reciting random profiles to ensure you have them down. Dorky? Yes. Helpful though.

If you’re able to word vomit all of that without thinking too hard, you’ll free brain cells for the flying which you will need especially for v1 cuts and single engine missed approaches. Pull up the approaches the night before and use that nifty green pencil (on the right side) to highlight the things you’ll brief and go over that a few times. Kills two birds with one stone: have them ready for the next session and you’ve already gone over them.

Sleep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Turbosina
10-28-2017, 05:21 PM
The callouts on approaches, missed approaches, takeoffs, v1 cuts are getting a lot of people. When you’re not chairflying with your partner, draw them out on paper with your flight path, write each callout at each point and practice them to aid your chair flying. Walk around your room as you get dinner ready reciting random profiles to ensure you have them down. Dorky? Yes. Helpful though.

If you’re able to word vomit all of that without thinking too hard, you’ll free brain cells for the flying which you will need especially for v1 cuts and single engine missed approaches. Pull up the approaches the night before and use that nifty green pencil (on the right side) to highlight the things you’ll brief and go over that a few times. Kills two birds with one stone: have them ready for the next session and you’ve already gone over them.

Sleep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just type all the callouts on a piece of paper that's small enough to fit on the yoke clip. It's not like you're gonna have a trip sheet to put there during sim, anyways. It's a great backup in case you experience complete brain freeze.

And it's completely permitted by the training department. (I'm absolutely serious).

WaterRooster
10-28-2017, 07:34 PM
I always bounced a tennis ball off the wall when going over call outs. You have to concentrate on catching a ball at the same time you are trying to remember callouts. It’s making your brain work double time in a semi stressful situation. Just an idea

sn00p
10-28-2017, 08:53 PM
I always bounced a tennis ball off the wall when going over call outs. You have to concentrate on catching a ball at the same time you are trying to remember callouts. It’s making your brain work double time in a semi stressful situation. Just an idea

That sounds awesome. Definitely gonna remember that for future events.

rickair7777
10-29-2017, 09:26 AM
I always bounced a tennis ball off the wall when going over call outs. You have to concentrate on catching a ball at the same time you are trying to remember callouts. It’s making your brain work double time in a semi stressful situation. Just an idea

That technique worked for a buddy of mine. Everybody made fun of him in training, he even got the call sign "spaulding".

But he got hornets and now commands an aircraft carrier.

ImPilot I Fly
10-29-2017, 10:17 AM
I prefer a racquet ball. Makes a little bit more noise to annoy your neighbors.

Turbosina
10-30-2017, 08:55 AM
I do remember going for 4-mile runs outside the ATL Drury Inn (what a miserable place) while reciting over and over, 'missed approach, go around thrust, flaps 8, positive rate, gear up, speed mode, nav mode, bug V2, half bank on'...

(And yes I realize those calls are from both the PF and PM. Just helped me to remember...)

rickair7777
10-30-2017, 09:22 AM
I do remember going for 4-mile runs outside the ATL Drury Inn (what a miserable place) while reciting over and over, 'missed approach, go around thrust, flaps 8, positive rate, gear up, speed mode, nav mode, bug V2, half bank on'...

(And yes I realize those calls are from both the PF and PM. Just helped me to remember...)

Yes, good to know all the calls, from both pilots. That way you don't get too confused if the other guy screws up his calls.

450knotOffice
10-31-2017, 08:35 AM
I do remember going for 4-mile runs outside the ATL Drury Inn (what a miserable place) while reciting over and over, 'missed approach, go around thrust, flaps 8, positive rate, gear up, speed mode, nav mode, bug V2, half bank on'...

(And yes I realize those calls are from both the PF and PM. Just helped me to remember...)


Yes, good to know all the calls, from both pilots. That way you don't get too confused if the other guy screws up his calls.

This is absolutely the best advice to anybody beginning training. Repetition, repetition, repetition! I've done this for every plane I've trained for in the more than 26 years in the airline business. :D

tomgoodman
10-31-2017, 11:55 AM
I do remember going for 4-mile runs outside the ATL Drury Inn (what a miserable place) while reciting over and over, 'missed approach, go around thrust, flaps 8, positive rate, gear up, speed mode, nav mode, bug V2, half bank on'...

(And yes I realize those calls are from both the PF and PM. Just helped me to remember...)

Another advantage of chanting the procedures and call outs while you jog is that muggers leave you alone. They will assume that you are an escaped mental patient who is too dangerous to approach. :D