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Grom1234
09-29-2017, 02:38 PM
Do we have any current or former CBP guys on the forum? If we do I have a few questions...

How many hours do AIA's fly per month?
Best station assignments?
What is FLETC like?
Is the culture as bad as the forums make it out to be?
Would you recommend the career?
Is the future of AIA going to be more drone and less aircraft flying?

Thanks to those that reply.


Diverb
09-29-2017, 05:59 PM
I work for AMO. We just had one of our supervisors with 15yrs in leave for United. Lost a couple others last year. You will have to start in either Texas or Puerto Rico for the first 3yrs, realistically 5yrs before you can transfer.

Plan on only flying about 400-500hrs a year, if your lucky. So much of our day is filled with computer training (culture awareness, sensitivity training, blood born pathogens, sexual harassment in the work place) you get the idea. Plus we have a lot of law enforcement training that still needs to be completed.

Its a good job, but you have to want to be a law enforcement officer who happens to fly. The airframe is just how we complete our mission. If your looking for an airline career or want to fly 1000 hrs a year, this isn't the place for you.

We are using lots of MQ-9 platforms and are suppose to be moving some to central Texas, giving us three locations to launch and recover from. Are you FW,RW or both? Most of us are dual rated and you will only be allowed two airframes, so its busy each year going to recurrent for helicopters and fixed wing depending upon what airframes you are qualified.

FLETC is easy, just show up to class and study, nothing hard.

Am I grateful for this job, yes I am. Do I look on this website and search job sites daily, Yes I do. I will stay here until I retire, but I wont stay a day past my 20 year mark and will hopefully get another flying gig as soon as I retire. A lot of our pilots talk about leaving, and some will likely go, others will stick it out and stay for the retirement.

Any other specific questions, feel free to ask

kaputt
10-12-2017, 11:32 AM
Of the locations that have openings, which ones have fixed wing platforms?

- Sierra Vista
- Yuma
- Grand Forks
- Aguadilla
- Alpine
- Corpus Christi
- Laredo
- McAllen


emersonbiguns
10-16-2017, 09:46 AM
Is the culture as bad as the forums make it out to be?


Yes.

Not to mention the leadership, the mission, the aircraft, the hiring process, etc.

USMCFLYR
10-16-2017, 03:20 PM
Yes.

Not to mention the leadership, the mission, the aircraft, the hiring process, etc.

Do the pilots/crews not believe there is a need for airborne interdiction? :confused:

Diverb
10-16-2017, 05:06 PM
- Sierra Vista ---MQ-9 and C206
- Yuma --- helicopters
- Grand Forks ---MQ-9, had helicopters not sure if they still do
- Puerto Rico ---Dash8, helicopters
- Alpine -- not sure
- Corpus Christi ---MQ-9 and P3
- Laredo -- not sure
- McAllen C206, helicopters

JamesNoBrakes
10-16-2017, 08:53 PM
Do the pilots/crews not believe there is a need for airborne interdiction? :confused:

That might be as simple as disagreeing with where the resources are placed and how they are used. Sometimes management fails to execute the mission or places unreasonable obstacles to completing it, or there aren't the resources to complete it. I'd have to imagine as drones get more commonly used (no fear of losing an asset other than the drone) it will change many of the factors at play. I think already flying an airplane low over the border is probably not the preferred way to get drugs in, most just load them up in cars and trucks and take them right past the checkpoint. Interdiction is definitely needed for fast movers, boats, etc., but as surveillance technology gets better, those will probably be utilized less and the more effective smuggling operations (tunnels, freaking catapults, drones, cars, mules, etc.) are probably maximized. If this is the case, then I think you might question how the mission is executed at the least, if it's not flexible to meet the changing environment.

I'm curious as well though to know what was meant by that.

USMCFLYR
10-17-2017, 03:26 AM
That might be as simple as disagreeing with where the resources are placed and how they are used. Sometimes management fails to execute the mission or places unreasonable obstacles to completing it, or there aren't the resources to complete it. I'd have to imagine as drones get more commonly used (no fear of losing an asset other than the drone) it will change many of the factors at play. I think already flying an airplane low over the border is probably not the preferred way to get drugs in, most just load them up in cars and trucks and take them right past the checkpoint. Interdiction is definitely needed for fast movers, boats, etc., but as surveillance technology gets better, those will probably be utilized less and the more effective smuggling operations (tunnels, freaking catapults, drones, cars, mules, etc.) are probably maximized. If this is the case, then I think you might question how the mission is executed at the least, if it's not flexible to meet the changing environment.

I'm curious as well though to know what was meant by that.

I can see some of that.....but much of what you said isn't disagreeing with the mission as much as how that mission in executed.

Some of this comes from the troops in the dirt which often has to be given a little sideways glance. Just because the Private doesn't understand why they have to take that building, doesn't mean that it's not important to take that building.

CBP has certainly taken a hit in the past few years. I ran into another of their former pilots on the road last week. He echoes most of what was said here in past threads.

RCpilot2018
12-08-2017, 12:38 PM
To All:
This program is dying at an alarming rate. HQ management, who some people call "Senior Leadership", is utterly clueless when it comes to taking care of the field.
I used to be such an advocate of this program. Now, I highly encourage others to go to the airlines. This job is NOT what it used to be and has evolved into something not worth pursuing. This is a result of putting non pilot types, with chips on their shoulders, in charge professional pilots. PERIOD!!
With that said, if your are only a helo bubba with only aspirations of flying helicopters, this could be a career for you. Perfect for retired army types. If you do want to work for CBP, do whatever you can do to stay away from any NASO office. The MQ9 has taken over with the most inept management in charge.
God help us.
C550, H60, AS350, P3 and MQ9 driver.

Edwashere
01-06-2018, 11:20 AM
To All:
This program is dying at an alarming rate. HQ management, who some people call "Senior Leadership", is utterly clueless when it comes to taking care of the field.
I used to be such an advocate of this program. Now, I highly encourage others to go to the airlines. This job is NOT what it used to be and has evolved into something not worth pursuing. This is a result of putting non pilot types, with chips on their shoulders, in charge professional pilots. PERIOD!!
With that said, if your are only a helo bubba with only aspirations of flying helicopters, this could be a career for you. Perfect for retired army types. If you do want to work for CBP, do whatever you can do to stay away from any NASO office. The MQ9 has taken over with the most inept management in charge.
God help us.
C550, H60, AS350, P3 and MQ9 driver.
If you don’t mind me asking, how long have you been working for cpb? I’m a retired army pilot now working for Air Methods it I’m looking for stability. What is the first years pay really?

WacoQCF
01-06-2018, 12:45 PM
I worked for CBP OAM for 8 years in the NE and SE regions - I no longer endorse OAM as a good destination.

First year pay is about $85k including all pay and extras. You will top about $120k and work 5 on/2 off with a max of 8 hours of vacation for every pay period (80 hours).

There are way better places to fly, simply.

RCpilot2018
01-06-2018, 01:47 PM
If you donít mind me asking, how long have you been working for cpb? Iím a retired army pilot now working for Air Methods it Iím looking for stability. What is the first years pay really?

I'm in year 12. Yes, it is stable. This is only because you are a federal employee / agent. I have on the proverbial "Golden Handcuffs" and am here only for the LEO pension. That's it!
First year pay rest of US is GS11 plus locality and leap=76,522
Second year GS 12 = 91,718
Third year GS 13 =109,065
Like I said, this is just about perfect for army types. The AS350 will be your life. If you have significant time in airplanes look else where!
Before my retirement, I strongly believe that Air & Marine will be dissolved into the BP.

kingair04
02-11-2018, 09:58 PM
if you like flying this...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2012/11/121114113723_1_900x600.jpg

Current feeling at CBP...
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0742/9831/products/IMG_1359_large_4b7a5b41-9cd1-41f7-845b-c2456bbda332_grande.JPG?v=1516939760

Hope this explains CBP AMO and I've been with them for 20+ years

RPAeyes
02-12-2018, 11:19 AM
Quick question for CBP pilots. I spent 6yrs in the AF as a sensor / payload operator on Preds and Reaper UAS platforms. I attended a hiring fair for CBP and the recruiter talked me up about how much CBP is using their UAS in the field and how my military experience would be a fit. I'm currently working as a contractor for GA for UAS missions OCONUS. Money is good and I have great down time, but I'm a little burned out on spending so much time in the box.

Long story short, I applied for a aviation enforcement agent position I've passed the polygraph, passed background and just took my drug test and other physical. My question for you CBP pilots is, what's my chance of ever getting into a real airplane or maybe even a helicopter? I do hold a commercial single/multi engine license and someday hope to fly for a cargo or charter outfit.

Does CBP ever allow the sensor guys to fly, provided they are licensed pilots? Coming from a UAS background, I know full well the weather limitations on the UAS, so my question is what do CBP agents do on non flying days? I'm still waiting on my final official job offer, and I don't know when I would be attending the CBP academy.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to learn about the job. I've read every post on this site about the CBP pilots, but there is no mention about the sensor agent.

kingair04
02-14-2018, 07:32 PM
let me try and answer these:

1-Does CBP ever allow the sensor guys to fly, provided they are licensed pilots?
yes they will fly a cessna 206 or astar.

2-Coming from a UAS background, I know full well the weather limitations on the UAS, so my question is what do CBP agents do on non flying days?
collateral duties, go fly manned aircraft or patrol with USBP

3-I'm still waiting on my final official job offer, and I don't know when I would be attending the CBP academy.
about 3-4 months

emersonbiguns
02-18-2018, 07:23 AM
1-Does CBP ever allow the sensor guys to fly, provided they are licensed pilots?
yes they will fly a cessna 206 or astar.


Or sit around and watch Netflix.



Sorry for the long post, just trying to learn about the job.

Avoid it like the plague. Max out your rotations/$ and invest in flight time and certifications, then go to a regional and move on up.

Leadership in the organization is reaching a level of incompetence the is epic even for the government.

emersonbiguns
02-18-2018, 07:29 AM
Do the pilots/crews not believe there is a need for airborne interdiction? :confused:

No, that's not the issue. The problem with the mission is how supervision executes it... And how the mission really isn't what it's about anymore. It has become nothing more than a flying hour program. More hours and less people, used ineffectively leads to colossal frustration.

RPAeyes
02-18-2018, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the input

WacoQCF
02-19-2018, 07:03 AM
Let me also provide a NON-endorsement for CBP OAM. Avoid it.

Keep those recruiters honest - most of them are Boat drivers and Enforcement Agents. Most of the Pilots have resigned from recruiting.

If you want to fly airplanes, DO NOT accept an AEA position. The former reply was incorrect on you flying an AStar or Cessna 206 on your non flying days. You may be inside an AStar or other aircraft, but the likelihood of you logging any pilot time (legally) is near zero. The only ďqualityĒ flight time out there is the DHC-8 and that will get you a regional pilot job.

Management took a great and effective organization and made it a competition to burn flight hours. Hours, not enforcement stats, is the goal. Nearly every Pilot I know at CBP is wearing retirement handcuffs & not happy about sticking around. Nearly every AEA I know with a Pilots license is trying to get stick time or a AIA conversion- and not being picked up.

Donít go CBP in this Pilot hiring window. Honest advice for your flying career.

kaputt
02-19-2018, 01:51 PM
Nearly every AEA I know with a Pilots license is trying to get stick time or a AIA conversion- and not being picked up.

Interesting. Why aren't they getting picked up? It seems CBP is hurting for pilots. Are they also hurting for AEAs and don't want to cannibalize?

Also where are the new MEA King Air 350s being placed? Are any of them going to the Southern Border, specifically any of the places that are hiring?

RPAeyes
02-19-2018, 04:01 PM
Nearly every AEA I know with a Pilots license is trying to get stick time or a AIA conversion- and not being picked up.

If the agency is hurting for pilots, why wouldn't they promote from within? If there's AEA's who meet the license requirements and have the hours, why doesn't CBP make them pilots? I can understand the agency not allowing a low time guy to fly your Dash-8 or UH60, but what about the C206?, after all it's a Cessna

I'm still waiting to hear from the hiring center when and if I get the job

Clue32
02-20-2018, 02:46 AM
If the agency is hurting for pilots, why wouldn't they promote from within? If there's AEA's who meet the license requirements and have the hours, why doesn't CBP make them pilots? I can understand the agency not allowing a low time guy to fly your Dash-8 or UH60, but what about the C206?, after all it's a Cessna

I'm still waiting to hear from the hiring center when and if I get the job

Terrific question and the answer lies in the Reagan Building. The Border Patrol used to make their own pilots. Ten-or-so years ago OAM / AMO would hire FW only folks, assign them to mixed bases, and send them to get their RW cert.

In 2013 we had a HSI agent in Laredo (Former Regional Pilot w/ FWME ATP), who wanted to stay in Laredo for family reasons, apply for a DHS only AIA announcement. This is about the same time OAM was pushing for better investigative programs with in the agency. He was turned down because he wasn't dual rated. That made no sense. He left DHS to investigate mail fraud.

Not long there after the Deputy AC was in town, a non-pilot former Customs AEA, and he said that new AIA's needed to pay their dues before joining OAM. Terrible philosophy considering how successful the USBP program was.

RPAeyes
02-22-2018, 05:28 AM
Wow, the hiring center called, I got the job, but WTF I have to start the training academy next week, that's not much time. 5 days notice, what kinda operation is this? The AF & GA has always given more notice than 5 days. The lady on the phone said they had a seat open up, and if I want the job to take it.

Gotta be honest, this isn't a great first impression, 4 days to get stuff squared away and then travel across country.

DustoffVT
02-22-2018, 11:09 AM
Wow, the hiring center called, I got the job, but WTF I have to start the training academy next week, that's not much time. 5 days notice, what kinda operation is this? The AF & GA has always given more notice than 5 days. The lady on the phone said they had a seat open up, and if I want the job to take it.

Gotta be honest, this isn't a great first impression, 4 days to get stuff squared away and then travel across country.

Broken is the only word. Welcome, but be prepared for such treatment to continue.

emersonbiguns
02-23-2018, 10:17 AM
Gotta be honest, this isn't a great first impression, 4 days to get stuff squared away and then travel across country.

What office were you hired into? What position, AIA or AEA?

If you don't think your initial impression is very good, you'll need to lower your expectations.

Grom1234
02-23-2018, 09:20 PM
Well, from the feedback on this board it sounds like my "dream job" is really a nightmare. I have talked with 3 CBP AIA face to face (2 helo, 1FW) so far and they made the job sound great. Granted they were actively recruiting pilots. If it as bad as it sounds at CBP maybe the Regional route is the best after all. Bummer really.

rickair7777
02-24-2018, 05:56 AM
Well, from the feedback on this board it sounds like my "dream job" is really a nightmare. I have talked with 3 CBP AIA face to face (2 helo, 1FW) so far and they made the job sound great. Granted they were actively recruiting pilots. If it as bad as it sounds at CBP maybe the Regional route is the best after all. Bummer really.

If you want to be an airline pilot, yes regionals.

If you want to be a federal LEO, then maybe it would enhance your app to other agencies.

RPAeyes
02-24-2018, 04:35 PM
I turned down the job offer. I jist dont think giving a person only 4 days notice is right. More importantly it would not give me enough time to outprocess and clear General Atomics. GA has been very good to me and I feel a proper 2 weeks notice is the right thing to do. Maybe next time. I told the hiring center, Id still like to have the job, but a little more advanced notice would be apperciated.

emersonbiguns
02-24-2018, 05:33 PM
I turned down the job offer.

Probably a good decision.


Id still like to have the job, but a little more advanced notice would be apperciated.

Try to remember that advanced notice won't change the state of the organization. What you experienced was only one of the many, more minor, manifestations of an incredibly broken organization.

RPAeyes
02-24-2018, 06:20 PM
I was a little surprised by the hiring centers answer when I inquiried about the next training date. The reply given to me was “it depends if we can fill another class”

emersonbiguns
02-25-2018, 04:46 AM
I was a little surprised by the hiring centers answer when I inquiried about the next training date. The reply given to me was ďit depends if we can fill another classĒ

Just last summer the situation was pretty dire. People that had waited years to be hired were waiting even longer for a FLETC class. They were being pushed each time they filled a class and then one or two candidates would throw their hands up, give up on the wait and AMO would have to cancel the class again.

This wouldn't have been a problem 15-20 years ago, prior to the hostile takeover, when it was done more intelligently. New hires were given generic federal LE training in two different curriculums CEBS and then CITP. Graduates came out with all the requirements to do many things within the US Customs Service. AMO decided to build their own training, has done a pretty disappointing job, can't fill classes and has many an instructor at FLETC teaching stuff they've never done.

But, look at the bright side, after you're done at FLETC you get to go to mandatory Spanish training. That way you'll be able to order tacos at the local roach coach in Spainglish.

RPAeyes
02-25-2018, 06:21 AM
Im not going to be ďblack listedĒ from AMO for turning them down will I? Iíd be happy to take the position, again if it just allowed me to give a proper 2 wks notice, put my belongings into storage and then report for training. I guess it would be prudent for me to contact the hiring center with this question, but shouldnt my poloygraph and physical be good for at least a year? Surely they will have another class, heck its pretty much an open announcement all year

DustoffVT
02-26-2018, 08:01 AM
Im not going to be ďblack listedĒ from AMO for turning them down will I? Iíd be happy to take the position, again if it just allowed me to give a proper 2 wks notice, put my belongings into storage and then report for training. I guess it would be prudent for me to contact the hiring center with this question, but shouldnt my poloygraph and physical be good for at least a year? Surely they will have another class, heck its pretty much an open announcement all year

Probably not. 10 years ago yes. Now CBP has trouble filling slots, they'll probably hold onto your number.

Grom1234
03-09-2018, 10:14 PM
Just a question for the CBP guys on here, where are the good places to be stationed, if any? What are the stations to stay away from? Also, where can you fly the bigger airplane's like the king air's, Citation or pc12?

emersonbiguns
03-10-2018, 07:48 AM
... where are the good places to be stationed, if any?
It depends on your desires.

What are the stations to stay away from?

Puerto Rico is a hole.

Also, where can you fly the bigger airplane's like the king air's, Citation or pc12?
Citations are pretty much dead. The organization has pretty much destroyed any hope of ever having a future for them.

The only place you'll see a real airplane as a new hire is Puerto Rico. That will be a Dash 8.

Grom1234
03-10-2018, 06:34 PM
[QUOTE=emersonbiguns;2547727]It depends on your desires.

To fly as much as possible and not live in a terrible area.

emersonbiguns
03-11-2018, 12:19 AM
To fly as much as possible and not live in a terrible area.

If PR, McAllen, TX or Laredo, TX are terrible, then you're out of luck.

Or you could get really lucky and get sent to fly the Pred in ND...

Grom1234
03-27-2018, 12:49 PM
If PR, McAllen, TX or Laredo, TX are terrible, then you're out of luck.

Or you could get really lucky and get sent to fly the Pred in ND...


Anyone have any input on living at any of these bases?
-McAllen
-Laredo
-Sierra Vista
-Yuma
-Deming
-Alpine

emersonbiguns
03-27-2018, 06:38 PM
Anyone have any input on living at any of these bases?
-McAllen
-Laredo
-Sierra Vista
-Yuma
-Deming
-Alpine

What's important to you? "Input" is subjective. If you don't provide any supporting information, it's really tough to give you any sort of meaningful help.

Sierra Vista is the least sucky of them all, but you will be a Pred guy and won't get any real aircraft time for years.

Grom1234
03-27-2018, 06:52 PM
What's important to you? "Input" is subjective. If you don't provide any supporting information, it's really tough to give you any sort of meaningful help.

Sierra Vista is the least sucky of them all, but you will be a Pred guy and won't get any real aircraft time for years.

What is the local area is like?
Cost of living?
Crime?
Schools?
Recreation?

Why would you live there or not?

Would you move your family there?

Those are the kinds of questions I am trying to answer.

emersonbiguns
03-27-2018, 08:04 PM
What is the local area is like?
Cost of living?
Crime?
Schools?
Recreation?

Google is your friend.
Go to GoogleMaps and look at Alpine, Texas... tell me what you think.


Why would you live there or not?

Sierra Vista is the only possibility, but no way if it required me to give up flying, for the Pred.



Would you move your family there?

No, to every option.


Where do you currently live? Where have you lived previously? What do(did) like and dislike about each? What's important to you? What kind of recreation do you like? Do you need culture? Or just wide open spaces? Do you like heat? Humidity? Are you and your family Spanish speakers? etc, etc, etc.

USMCFLYR
03-28-2018, 04:26 AM
I would have no problem living in Yuma, AZ.

jmd4j
03-28-2018, 06:13 AM
I posed this question on a different forum but I haven't been approved as user yet, so I thought I'd throw it out here as well

Besides the SW border and PR, I notice St. Thomas V.I. is also listed on the announcement (Caribbean branch). Is that also a hard to fill locale or how difficult is that for newbies to get? I understand about the drastic tax situation PR poses and the like, but the wife has some job prospects there (both PR & St. Thomas), and wouldn't be bad for a few years I don't think.
I'm thinking about throwing my name into the hat. I'm a current DoD federal civilian (8 yrs) so I already understand a lot of the gov't BS a lot of people reference on forums (mandatory trainings, politics, and the like), so that wouldn't be a blindside for me, as I'm used to it by now �� Just trying to weigh some options at this time.

Shifty101
03-29-2018, 08:41 AM
Wow, the hiring center called, I got the job, but WTF I have to start the training academy next week, that's not much time. 5 days notice, what kinda operation is this? The AF & GA has always given more notice than 5 days. The lady on the phone said they had a seat open up, and if I want the job to take it.

Gotta be honest, this isn't a great first impression, 4 days to get stuff squared away and then travel across country.

I am looking into this, can you please private message me.

pilotaz
04-05-2018, 07:52 AM
Hi everyone,

I got some questions for the active AIA's here, I just applied for the AIA position and I am undergoing the starting process for this position.

What is the life of an AIA like a normal day of work?

About how many days are you out of home per year on assignment or on a mission?

Is family life good?

About how much time does the hiring process take?

ItnStln
04-14-2018, 10:43 AM
What office were you hired into? What position, AIA or AEA?

Whatís the difference between AIA and AEA?

emersonbiguns
04-14-2018, 11:34 AM
Whatís the difference between AIA and AEA?

AIA, Air Interdiction Agent (pilot)

AEA, Aviation Enforcement Agent (tactical officer)

ItnStln
04-14-2018, 12:18 PM
AIA, Air Interdiction Agent (pilot)

AEA, Aviation Enforcement Agent (tactical officer)

Thanks! Since the AIA position only requires a Commercial and 750 hours would it be a good way to build time for the airlines?

BarrySeal
04-14-2018, 01:00 PM
Thanks! Since the AIA position only requires a Commercial and 750 hours would it be a good way to build time for the airlines?

if you are "looking to build time for the airlines" you need to go somewhere else.

ItnStln
04-14-2018, 02:08 PM
if you are "looking to build time for the airlines" you need to go somewhere else.

Whyís that?

Diverb
04-14-2018, 05:58 PM
Since the AIA position only requires a Commercial and 750 hours would it be a good way to build time for the airlines?

We don't fly everyday, and most of our flights are all VFR since we are either pushing groups for the Border Patrol or conducting surveillance for other agencies, so your not going to build a ton of instrument time with us. Also most of what we fly is single engine and helicopters. I don't think the airlines care about rotor time. Also we are getting more MQ-9's and again that time counts for nothing, unless you want to to work for General Atomics doing UAS work overseas.

It's important to understand were a law enforcement agency who happens to use aircraft. A lot of our days are filled with LE duties and flying is just a vehicle for us.

On a side note, if your thinking you want to come here and get more hours then head to the airlines, during the 15 wks of the academy and 4wks of Spanish, you won't even touch a aircraft. That's time you could be flying or being a CFI to get you to your airline gig.

Diverb
04-14-2018, 06:04 PM
Thanks! Since the AIA position only requires a Commercial and 750 hours would it be a good way to build time for the airlines?

Also 750 TT is only to apply, you will need a 1000 TT before we will give you a check ride. They just dropped the hours to 750 to accommodate some of the military rotor only guys

ItnStln
04-26-2018, 09:21 AM
We don't fly everyday, and most of our flights are all VFR since we are either pushing groups for the Border Patrol or conducting surveillance for other agencies, so your not going to build a ton of instrument time with us. Also most of what we fly is single engine and helicopters. I don't think the airlines care about rotor time. Also we are getting more MQ-9's and again that time counts for nothing, unless you want to to work for General Atomics doing UAS work overseas.

It's important to understand were a law enforcement agency who happens to use aircraft. A lot of our days are filled with LE duties and flying is just a vehicle for us.

On a side note, if your thinking you want to come here and get more hours then head to the airlines, during the 15 wks of the academy and 4wks of Spanish, you won't even touch a aircraft. That's time you could be flying or being a CFI to get you to your airline gig.

Thanks, that makes sense!

ItnStln
04-26-2018, 09:21 AM
Also 750 TT is only to apply, you will need a 1000 TT before we will give you a check ride. They just dropped the hours to 750 to accommodate some of the military rotor only guys

Thanks, I wish the job announcement was more clear in this matter.

WheredWhoGo
05-18-2018, 05:07 PM
This thread makes me laugh.
If we could get HQ to read through what the front line pilots really think about this organization maybe we could get something changed...
On second thought, no they would never admit there is a problem.

So here I am looking for an airline job! :cool:

P.S. The UAS (Pred) is a sucking hole that is consuming us from the inside out. Be warned.

Diverb
05-23-2018, 06:07 AM
This thread makes me laugh.
If we could get HQ to read through what the front line pilots really think about this organization maybe we could get something changed...

So here I am looking for an airline job! :cool:


But hey....if your in one of the "hard to fill" locations, you will start getting a 10% bonus for retention this next pay period. Does nothing for the guys at other locations

pilotaz
05-23-2018, 09:17 AM
Which are the hard to fill locations?

Also why is UAS a "sucking hole"?

Diverb
05-23-2018, 12:59 PM
Most of our hard to fill locations are along the southern border (except Grand Forks, ND...think -20 everyday in the winter) and Puerto Rico. I will say the agency is getting better on letting guys transfer out after 3-4 years. My buddy in McAllen was offered another location a few weeks ago and he has been in McAwesome for a little over 3yrs.

UAS is its own animal. Its really hard to find "real pilots" who want to operate it. Guys coming in from the military or airlines who have always flown real aircraft typically don't want to operate the pred. Those of us who do operate the pred kinda get stuck only operating the pred. There's guys in my office who have tried to transfer back to another non UAS location after a few years and have been unsuccessful since we cant fill the pred locations. Its kinda a catch 22. Bare in mind 95% of us are all dual rated, and not getting a chance to fly other platforms on a regular basis sucks.

Another bad thing about the UAS is the time counts for NOTHING, even though we operate the predator in the flight levels, file a IFR flight plan and talk with center all day, the flight hours count for nothing in the eyes of the FAA.

Oh well im eligible to retire in 5yrs, so that's my goal. Hopefully after that then I can fly something real on a regular basis

pilotaz
05-23-2018, 02:00 PM
Most of our hard to fill locations are along the southern border (except Grand Forks, ND...think -20 everyday in the winter) and Puerto Rico. I will say the agency is getting better on letting guys transfer out after 3-4 years. My buddy in McAllen was offered another location a few weeks ago and he has been in McAwesome for a little over 3yrs.

UAS is its own animal. Its really hard to find "real pilots" who want to operate it. Guys coming in from the military or airlines who have always flown real aircraft typically don't want to operate the pred. Those of us who do operate the pred kinda get stuck only operating the pred. There's guys in my office who have tried to transfer back to another non UAS location after a few years and have been unsuccessful since we cant fill the pred locations. Its kinda a catch 22. Bare in mind 95% of us are all dual rated, and not getting a chance to fly other platforms on a regular basis sucks.

Another bad thing about the UAS is the time counts for NOTHING, even though we operate the predator in the flight levels, file a IFR flight plan and talk with center all day, the flight hours count for nothing in the eyes of the FAA.

Oh well im eligible to retire in 5yrs, so that's my goal. Hopefully after that then I can fly something real on a regular basis

Thank you for the info! I am an Assistant Chief at a College and I want to apply for a UAS position in Sierra Vista, AZ. I am going through the application process which it is taking months, do you have any idea of how much time does it take to get hired? I would try to get my institution to keep me as a check airman so I will keep on flying (fingers crossed). Any info on how to get a certain base will help.

Diverb
05-23-2018, 02:16 PM
Have you taken your polygraph yet? Once you pass that, I believe the hiring process is fairly fast. I have spoken with a few new hires in a past few months who stated their total time to get hired was within 6-7 months, which is fast.

Once you take your check ride in OK, City, and you get called, if you want Sierra Vista, all you have to do is ask for it. San Angelo, TX and Grand Forks, ND are also heavy UAS locations

emersonbiguns
05-24-2018, 05:43 AM
Does nothing for the guys at other locations

It convinces them that the organization is clueless and can't see that a pilot lost in any location, is a pilot that won't be around to contribute to the flying hour program. It's one more thing to push the guys on the edge, over.

Diverb
05-24-2018, 01:42 PM
It convinces them that the organization is clueless and can't see that a pilot lost in any location, is a pilot that won't be around to contribute to the flying hour program. It's one more thing to push the guys on the edge, over.

Just spoke with a buddy today about the "10% bonus" and he said NATC is extremely short staffed and doesn't qualify for the bonus and he said this bonus for the select few may be the straw that breaks his back too

emersonbiguns
05-24-2018, 06:00 PM
...may be the straw that breaks his back too

Yup, just heard another +10 year guy got a Class I... for the life of me, can't figure out why. :confused:

Diverb
05-26-2018, 05:37 PM
I just applied for the US Park Police aviation section, figure maybe I could finish my last few years of 6c retirement there. I rarely see them on USAJobs, so I figure what the heck

pilotaz
05-29-2018, 05:32 AM
Have you taken your polygraph yet? Once you pass that, I believe the hiring process is fairly fast. I have spoken with a few new hires in a past few months who stated their total time to get hired was within 6-7 months, which is fast.

Once you take your check ride in OK, City, and you get called, if you want Sierra Vista, all you have to do is ask for it. San Angelo, TX and Grand Forks, ND are also heavy UAS locations

Thanks for the info! I will try to get to Sierra Vista hopefully I can get it. I also hope they fix all of their problems which seem to be drawing people away from the job.

ROTORGUY
06-24-2018, 05:49 PM
Any fairly new AIA Pilots hired in the last few years recall if they ask you about your flight hours in the polygraph? Iím a FW and RW commercial pilot with around 600hrs mostly in FW singles. There are a few days Iíve forgot to log flights and some days I round up my hours. Iím sure they are close but not 100% accurate. I can fly to commercial standards in both FW and RW. Just want to know if during the hiring process they are going to pick my log book apart. If I only have 100-150hrs in RW and they choose to hire me would they make me a Single engine fixed wing pilot or would I still get to fly RW? I have zero desire to fly a single engine cessna or fly UAS for 20 years. Thanks for any responses.

RCpilot2018
06-25-2018, 06:22 PM
Any fairly new AIA Pilots hired in the last few years recall if they ask you about your flight hours in the polygraph? Iím a FW and RW commercial pilot with around 600hrs mostly in FW singles. There are a few days Iíve forgot to log flights and some days I round up my hours. Iím sure they are close but not 100% accurate. I can fly to commercial standards in both FW and RW. Just want to know if during the hiring process they are going to pick my log book apart. If I only have 100-150hrs in RW and they choose to hire me would they make me a Single engine fixed wing pilot or would I still get to fly RW? I have zero desire to fly a single engine cessna or fly UAS for 20 years. Thanks for any responses.

You are going to be a GREAT pred pilot!

ROTORGUY
06-26-2018, 06:48 PM
Not interested

Otterbox
06-27-2018, 06:37 AM
Any fairly new AIA Pilots hired in the last few years recall if they ask you about your flight hours in the polygraph? Iím a FW and RW commercial pilot with around 600hrs mostly in FW singles. There are a few days Iíve forgot to log flights and some days I round up my hours. Iím sure they are close but not 100% accurate. I can fly to commercial standards in both FW and RW. Just want to know if during the hiring process they are going to pick my log book apart. If I only have 100-150hrs in RW and they choose to hire me would they make me a Single engine fixed wing pilot or would I still get to fly RW? I have zero desire to fly a single engine cessna or fly UAS for 20 years. Thanks for any responses.

So youíre worried theyíre going to ask you if and how you falsified your logbook and not give you the job?

Perhaps thatís good enough motivation to keep accurate records of your flights moving forwards... goodluck either way.

ROTORGUY
06-28-2018, 06:07 PM
Not worried about ďfalsifyingĒ my log books. They are pretty accurate if not Iím probably short hours. My first year flying I logged my time off the tach not the Hobbs in my partnerships 172. I now use the Hobbs when I log time. Iím now commercial rated in helicopters and planes. I fly the owner of a Cirrus 1 to 2 times a week, fly for the CAP, and I fly right seat with a friend trying to finish his ppl. I fly a lot and there are a few times Iíve forgot to log a flight or two. Iím sure Iím not the only one. Anyways I was just wondering if that was something brought up during the polygraph. Iím just kicking around the idea of applying in a few years when Iím up to 1000hrs. Iíve also got 6 years of Active Duty military experience but not as a pilot. If I were to be considered I would have no interest in flying UAV. I did not spend 60+ thousand dollars to fly a drone. Like most of you I have a love for flying and enjoy flying both helicopters and planes. Thanks again for any info on the hiring process. Iíll keep better track of my hours. 😉

USMCFLYR
06-29-2018, 03:38 AM
I now use the Hobbs when I log time. Iím now commercial rated in helicopters and planes. I fly the owner of a Cirrus 1 to 2 times a week, fly for the CAP, and I fly right seat with a friend trying to finish his ppl.
Meaning that you are NOT his CFI but riding along with him in the right seat during his PPL training? :confused:

flyerr
06-30-2018, 08:28 PM
I think there's a word for that, somewhere... pell... pess... pessenga... passenger!

Meaning that you are NOT his CFI but riding along with him in the right seat during his PPL training? :confused:

USMCFLYR
07-01-2018, 04:01 AM
I think there's a word for that, somewhere... pell... pess... pessenga... passenger!
Yeah......a passenger riding along with the PPL trainee?
Ummmmm.:(

flyerr
07-02-2018, 12:04 PM
But now that they're making those nifty plastic student certs, aren't they printing "carrying passengers encouraged" on limitations? I mean, it seems like a great way for two or maybe three people to all log some hours.... right?

Yeah......a passenger riding along with the PPL trainee?
Ummmmm.:(

rickair7777
07-02-2018, 02:29 PM
I think there's a word for that, somewhere... pell... pess... pessenga... passenger!

Yeah......a passenger riding along with the PPL trainee?
Ummmmm.:(

Not at all. The guy with the CPL is the pilot and the student is the pax, or at least that's how the cookie will crumble if push comes to shove. And insurance would probably be a can of worms too.

Hopefully the student is not logging solo, but perfectly legal if he's just "practicing" with the flight controls, my kids are allowed to do that.

aeroengineer
07-02-2018, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the info! I will try to get to Sierra Vista hopefully I can get it. I also hope they fix all of their problems which seem to be drawing people away from the job.
Sierra Vista aka Ft Huachuca...there's a garden spot lol. No need to fly to catch illegals crossing the border just get a room in the BOQ and every other morning they'll walk out of the mountains and right by your window.:D

ROTORGUY
07-03-2018, 07:31 PM
Meaning that you are NOT his CFI but riding along with him in the right seat during his PPL training? :confused:

So your concerned that a dual commercial rated pilot is flying right seat in a cessna 172 with a friend giving him pointers and helping him build confidence? Really? This student owns a Cirrus, which I fly for him, and his family regularly. Heís a young business owner that admits he will probably never do long flights without me or another instrument rated pilot with him assuming he ever finishes his license. He has been soloed by a CFI in the 172 for over a year. (At this point he probably has close to 80hrs) Heís just never taken his written. His flying is good but he prefers to have me ride along with him from time to time for support, and to help sharpen him up. He is a friend, and i regularly fly his wife and daughters in their Cirrus. He may never get his ppl. He is your typical business owner that is consumed with work.

My original post was to learn more about the hiring process with custom and if I should be concerned if my log book is not 100% accurate. I would venture to say most peopleís books are probably off by an hour or two after several years of flying. If you have nothing beneficial to offer to the conversation no need to respond. You pull a single statement out of a post and criticize it. Donít be a tool. Relax, if you have a friend working on his ppl or just wanting to take the controls you donít have to be a cfi to allow someone else to take the controls. I would still be PIC and responsible for the Aircraft. The owner of the Aircraft, and flight school is ok with it, not sure why you would care. Stay Classy.

BeatNavy
07-04-2018, 04:34 AM
So your concerned that a dual commercial rated pilot is flying right seat in a cessna 172 with a friend giving him pointers and helping him build confidence? Really? This student owns a Cirrus, which I fly for him, and his family regularly. Heís a young business owner that admits he will probably never do long flights without me or another instrument rated pilot with him assuming he ever finishes his license. He has been soloed by a CFI in the 172 for over a year. (At this point he probably has close to 80hrs) Heís just never taken his written. His flying is good but he prefers to have me ride along with him from time to time for support, and to help sharpen him up. He is a friend, and i regularly fly his wife and daughters in their Cirrus. He may never get his ppl. He is your typical business owner that is consumed with work.

My original post was to learn more about the hiring process with custom and if I should be concerned if my log book is not 100% accurate. I would venture to say most peopleís books are probably off by an hour or two after several years of flying. If you have nothing beneficial to offer to the conversation no need to respond. You pull a single statement out of a post and criticize it. Donít be a tool. Relax, if you have a friend working on his ppl or just wanting to take the controls you donít have to be a cfi to allow someone else to take the controls. I would still be PIC and responsible for the Aircraft. The owner of the Aircraft, and flight school is ok with it, not sure why you would care. Stay Classy.

You said a few posts back that you fly a cirrus owner 1 or 2 times a week, and that you also fly right seat with a guy finishing up his ppl. Your intent was clearly two separate examples of when you fly. And the latter implies that since heís trying to finish his PPL, it sounds like like heís logging the time. Then in this post you claim when you fly the cirrus guy he brings you along bc he never finished his training and may not...not the same picture you painted a couple days ago. Sounds like you are backpedaling after getting called out, then counterattacking by name-calling for raising a legitimate point (one of the guys you called a tool works for the FAA by the way). Some of us keep accurate flight logs, especially when we were low time like you, and when people are logging stuff they shouldnít, it doesnít sit well with many people. Good luck in your aviation career.

USMCFLYR
07-04-2018, 04:38 AM
So your concerned that a dual commercial rated pilot is flying right seat in a cessna 172 with a friend giving him pointers and helping him build confidence? Really? This student owns a Cirrus, which I fly for him, and his family regularly. Heís a young business owner that admits he will probably never do long flights without me or another instrument rated pilot with him assuming he ever finishes his license. He has been soloed by a CFI in the 172 for over a year. (At this point he probably has close to 80hrs) Heís just never taken his written. His flying is good but he prefers to have me ride along with him from time to time for support, and to help sharpen him up. He is a friend, and i regularly fly his wife and daughters in their Cirrus. He may never get his ppl. He is your typical business owner that is consumed with work.

My original post was to learn more about the hiring process with custom and if I should be concerned if my log book is not 100% accurate. I would venture to say most peopleís books are probably off by an hour or two after several years of flying. If you have nothing beneficial to offer to the conversation no need to respond. You pull a single statement out of a post and criticize it. Donít be a tool. Relax, if you have a friend working on his ppl or just wanting to take the controls you donít have to be a cfi to allow someone else to take the controls. I would still be PIC and responsible for the Aircraft. The owner of the Aircraft, and flight school is ok with it, not sure why you would care. Stay Classy.

Yes....I'd be very concerned if your friend is logging that time and you made it sound like if he was working toward finishing his PPL then he would be logging time towards that end. If this is not the case then a simple 'he doesn't log the time I fly with him' would have been sufficient.

As for your logbook not being correct - people who are serious in the business of aviation take a lot of time to make sure their logbooks are correct. Maybe you should put more into managing your future career.

I pull a single post of out of a post and ask a question because the content was confusing. You making such a defensive ride out of it even makes me wonder more if your 'friend training for his PPL' isn't logging the time. If he owns the plane - where does the flight school come into play that you say is 'ok with it'? Is the aircraft on lease back. Is he the one signing for the plane or are you?

If you are doing everything legal then it is good experience for this person; if not - you could setting him up for problems in the future if he continues in aviation.

ROTORGUY
07-05-2018, 01:40 PM
The friend does not need the time, he needs to take his written and do a little checkride prep before his checkride. He has his hour requirements and meets all requirements for the checkride. He owns a Cirrus with another gentleman, but uses it for work and hires myself or other commercial pilots to fly for him. He trains in a 172 when he wants to which is few and far between. His problem is he is more involved with work than with flying. Your concern is with weather or not heís logging time. That has nothing to do with my apprehension towards taking a pollygraphy and the fact that my logs will not be 100% accurate. Iím not suggesting Iím adding 100ís of hour to my log book. Iím stating I know my logs are not 100% accurate. I logged tach time my first year flying in my partnership because thatís how we billed ourselves for use toward the TBO fund. Yes it was dumb and I was a brand new Pilot. Since then Iíve gotten my Instrument, and Commercial Ratings in Fixed Wing. I also earned my Private and Commercial Add on in Helicopters. Iím not a military pilot or a wealthy person. Iím a Veteran that had some help with my Instrument and Commercial thanks to the GI Bill. Everything else Iíve paid for out of my own pocket. Iím CONSIDERING applying for a position with customs to be an AIA. I currently work in law enforcement, and Iíve taken a poloygraph before. I can stay right where Iím at and will likely end up in Air Support one day. But if there was a chance I could fly rotors sooner for CBP I might look into that. Iím just trying to get some info on that. My question was simply do they ask you about yours hours or log books during the pollygraph. Donít assume my questions means Iím trying to hind something or that Iím lieing about my hours. I simply logged time off the tach vs Hobbs for a year or more. That and I know I forgot to log a few flights along the way. Im sure those missed flights donít add up to more than 5hrs. Iím sure some of you are perfect and your log book times are perfect down to the 0.1hrs, congrats. Mine are not. I fly enough between Commercial Flights in the Cirrus, and my own personal plane that I will have the required hours needed in a year or less. Again just looking into the AIA Pilot position and was looking for feedback from someone doing the job and thatís been through the process. If you canít offer any specific insite about that please donít reply.

flyerr
07-06-2018, 12:20 PM
FYI, a poly - which you said you've taken before - isn't about whether or not every document you've ever filled out is 100% accurate. It's the big pieces. Have you intentionally lied on your application? Were you truthful about your criminal history, drug use, etc? If you're honest during the application process, you should have no issues. The examiner asks about your logbook? "Yes, I gave the best numbers I could, given that I logged tach at first, etc. etc. etc." At the end of the day, the question is: did you say/do something with the intent to deceive? If the answer is no, then you're fine. If you're inflating hours and fabricating stuff, then that's a different answer. You're the only one who will know the truth, and it'll be up to the polygrapher to figure out whether your statements match the facts.

'Nuff said?

Grom1234
08-01-2018, 06:51 PM
For the CBP AIA's out there, how are things going at AMO? Are things getting any better? Previous posts made it sound like things were trending in a rather unhealthy direction.

Does AMO have a large amount of retirements on the horizon, similar to the airlines? With the new UND - AMO Pathway, are open slots getting filled up with UND pathway grads?

Just Checking in and trying to get a feel how things are going.

kaputt
08-17-2018, 10:08 AM
I'd be interested in hearing an update as well ^

RCpilot2018
08-17-2018, 02:44 PM
I'd be interested in hearing an update as well ^

UPDATE UPDATE!!! If you come onboard you are going to fly the MQ9!

Tibhar87
08-20-2018, 03:55 PM
UPDATE UPDATE!!! If you come onboard you are going to fly the MQ9!


Is this a new policy or a temporary measure to strengthen the MQ9 ranks?
I wonder How many qualified applicants would actually accept this position with only one option besides Drone pilots leaving active duty...

RCpilot2018
08-21-2018, 02:48 PM
Is this a new policy or a temporary measure to strengthen the MQ9 ranks?
I wonder How many qualified applicants would actually accept this position with only one option besides Drone pilots leaving active duty...

Not so much of a new policy. If you come in today you'll go to either Mcallen, Laredo, PR, Sierra Vista, San Angelo or Grand Forks. The latter 3 are UAS. The first 3 being heavy AS350.
The agency as a whole could absorb another 100 pilots today if they could get them. Best advice is to apply and let it run its course. If you are offered some place that you can't see yourself at for 3-5 years, then don't take the job! I was watching APTAP back in 03' pondering the same issues. Bottom line. If you are heavy fixed wing or just getting out of the Army, don't waste your time go 121!

Bannerpilot24
08-24-2018, 12:41 PM
For a 23 year old female commercial pilot with 4500hrs TT (combo of pt 91 & 135 fixed wing) that loves flying fun planes, tailwheel/seaplanes etc. but needs stability now that I have a child and husband (Iíd prefer to be the breadwinner), that doesnít want to do 121 flying if avoidable, and likes the idea of something a little different than the typical Airline Pilot Career these days, would this be a good way to make a living? (Sorry for the run-on sentence). Or should I just bite the bullet and do the airline thing?
My goals with getting a stable job include:
1) Saving for retirement
2) Having enough off time/money for a yearly family trip
3) Maximizing time with my kid and husband (minimal overnights)
4) Buying a family airplane in the next 10 years
5) Ability to transfer to different bases

Is there even such a job as what I seek?
Iíll go where I can retire somewhat early and have enough life left in me to get back to my fun flying

Diverb
08-24-2018, 01:40 PM
Short answer is yes we have a stable income and are home nightly for the most part. The larger question is are you willing to live in Puerto Rico, South Texas, Arizona or North Dakota for a minimum of 3-4yrs?

Also when and (if) you get a transfer to another location, it's not a guaranteed paid move. You may have to flip the bill yourself.

airspeed1974
08-26-2018, 07:23 PM
Just curious, why the age 40 limitation?

rickair7777
08-27-2018, 02:04 PM
Just curious, why the age 40 limitation?

Federal hiring age limits typically have to do with eligibility for the pension... they don't hire people who would hit the max service age before 20 years. That might be waiver-able for mil folks who can buy their years?

Diverb
08-27-2018, 05:11 PM
Correct. Years ago you had to be hired by age 37 to meet the law enforcement retirement age of 57. They have now pushed it to 40 for non current federal law enforcement officers or military. If you are retired military then you can get a waiver, and come on board after age 40.

skylike
08-27-2018, 08:09 PM
One does not need to be retired military. As long as you are a veteran, the age restriction is lifted and you are able to work for 20 years as 6c (law enforcement). We have one in my office who will be in his 70s at retirement. We do not even have annual PT requirements as we did many years ago.

Ymayorsh
10-06-2018, 03:07 PM
I am a commercial single and multi with a King Air 300 SIC Type Rating and CFI/CFII and soon to be AMEI with a total of close to a 1000 hours and counting. I just applied for to be an AIA. All of my time is on fixed wing. Reading the threads here it sounds that the only platform available for me is a C206/210. Besides PR, where are the Kings Airs (250, 300, and 350), Citations, Pilatus that the website advertises located? What are the chances of me flying one those platforms after the academy? Will the agency pay for me to get a rotary wing add-on? And if so, how likely is that? Any insight into these is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

RCpilot2018
10-06-2018, 04:27 PM
Your life will be working nights flying the Predator B in San Angelo, Sierra Vista or Grand forks.

Go 121!

Diverb
10-07-2018, 09:33 AM
all true. For starters we only have 3 PC-12's, and the King Airs are not at new hire locations. If you want to fly the Dash 8 then take Puerto Rico. If you take Grand Forks, Sierra Vista, or San Angelo you will be operating the MQ-9 daily. Just to be fair i will tell you the MQ-9 allows for a good family life, I'm home daily and darn near at the same time each day, however because of manpower issues our schedule changes constantly. Example, i worked 4 days of day shift last week and doubled back for a night shift and next week i'm on another shift entirely.

Don't expect the agency to pay for your rotor rating, especially in the first few years. If you get transferred to another helicopter heavy branch, then the agency may flip the bill

kaputt
10-07-2018, 02:00 PM
Are the only options for new hires Dash-8, Cessna 206/210, or RPA?

Diverb
10-08-2018, 06:53 AM
Puerto Rico has AS350 and UH60 plus they are busy and it's pretty there, just $$$ to live there. Every once in awhile I see other locations in Texas open up, but again those will be AS350 & C206/210 locations.

Bottom line is if you come on board, you will be southern border for a minimum of 3yrs but realistically plan on 4-5.

kaputt
10-08-2018, 10:55 AM
Appreciate the response. I do think they could really improve recruiting if some of those southern border locations had the option of flying the King Air or a PC-12 or something similar. I realize itís not quite that simple as just moving airplanes around, especially with national security concerns and mission related reasons. But it just seems in the current aviation market (and foreseeable future) itís going to be hard to convince someone with 1500+ hours to come fly a Cessna 206/210 or RPA.

Iíll continue to keep my eye on CBP though and see how things look in the next couple of years. As current military (non-flying), the idea of getting the opportunity to fly for an actual mission is very enticing. But itís hard to justify a southern border location AND flying a piston single, even if the pay and benefits are pretty good.

Maybe CBP recruiting will see this thread!

RCpilot2018
10-08-2018, 12:38 PM
Appreciate the response. I do think they could really improve recruiting if some of those southern border locations had the option of flying the King Air or a PC-12 or something similar. I realize itís not quite that simple as just moving airplanes around, especially with national security concerns and mission related reasons. But it just seems in the current aviation market (and foreseeable future) itís going to be hard to convince someone with 1500+ hours to come fly a Cessna 206/210 or RPA.

Iíll continue to keep my eye on CBP though and see how things look in the next couple of years. As current military (non-flying), the idea of getting the opportunity to fly for an actual mission is very enticing. But itís hard to justify a southern border location AND flying a piston single, even if the pay and benefits are pretty good.

Maybe CBP recruiting will see this thread!

Kaputt,

The problems with CBP are not the folks that frequent this website nor the designated Air & Marine recruiters. The problems are farther up the food chain. Basically, no one has any power to CHANGE or FIX anything but a SES. No GS15 or lower can fix the damage that has been done over the years to the program.

HQ and their minions run the show. The rest unfortunately are cannon fodder. What was once a respected pilot program is no longer. You are just labor. Think Army Aviation run by the Border Patrol. This is exactly what happens when non pilots or pilot trainees are put in charge of professional pilots period.

Do you and your buddies a favor and look elsewhere. The 121 world is a better place to be. I'm quite content where I am but call it the way I see it. 7 and change to go!

Ymayorsh
10-10-2018, 04:15 PM
Wow that definitely does not look like anything they advertised. Does anyone know what kind of assets are at McCallen, TX?

Diverb
10-10-2018, 04:25 PM
Wow that definitely does not look like anything they advertised. Does anyone know what kind of assets are at McCallen, TX?

McAwesome has helicopters and C206

prophead5
10-11-2018, 02:48 AM
Kaputt,

The problems with CBP are not the folks that frequent this website nor the designated Air & Marine recruiters. The problems are farther up the food chain. Basically, no one has any power to CHANGE or FIX anything but a SES. No GS15 or lower can fix the damage that has been done over the years to the program.

HQ and their minions run the show. The rest unfortunately are cannon fodder. What was once a respected pilot program is no longer. You are just labor. Think Army Aviation run by the Border Patrol. This is exactly what happens when non pilots or pilot trainees are put in charge of professional pilots period.

Do you and your buddies a favor and look elsewhere. The 121 world is a better place to be. I'm quite content where I am but call it the way I see it. 7 and change to go!

So what is a professional pilot?

rickair7777
10-11-2018, 08:34 AM
So what is a professional pilot?

Someone who flies for a living, and understands what all that entails.

The military for example almost always promotes tactical operators to be the leaders of their specialty corps, to avoid the problem of managers who don't understand what it is they are managing.

RCpilot2018
12-03-2018, 06:15 AM
All,

Words from the AC. All who meet the min quals WILL receive a tentative offer. Whether or not you pass the poly, background, fletc and come out the other end is obviously on you. Good luck to those pursuing.

Cheers

Grom1234
12-03-2018, 05:39 PM
Well that sounds fantastic. Is that because AMO is having a hard time getting pilots on board? How long do you see that lasting? Thanks for the info.

RCpilot2018
12-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Well that sounds fantastic. Is that because AMO is having a hard time getting pilots on board? How long do you see that lasting? Thanks for the info.

Yes, AMO pilot hiring has been very low over the last 5 years. If memory serves me, I believe the agency hired about 100 or so in a 6 year time period. With airline pilot hiring in overdrive, AMO will be desperately hiring pilots for the next decade!

KaiGywer
12-03-2018, 07:21 PM
I have 6.5 years of local law enforcement experience and currently working on my pilot ratings (fixed wing). What are the odds of actually getting to fly a plane and not just a UAV? I currently live in Bismarck, ND, so Grand Forks wouldn't be out of the question for a move.

Diverb
12-04-2018, 12:52 PM
I have 6.5 years of local law enforcement experience and currently working on my pilot ratings (fixed wing). What are the odds of actually getting to fly a plane and not just a UAV? I currently live in Bismarck, ND, so Grand Forks wouldn't be out of the question for a move.

not likely. Your still going to have to accumulate a 1000 hours of flight time and have your comerrical/instrument ticket. The commercial and instrument is easy to get, but the the flight time will take awhile unless you have really deep pockets. I know several guys at GF who only fly the C210 or AS350 one or two days a month if they are lucky. I would recommend trying to get on with a large city or state LE agency who has their own avaition unti. If i wasnt 59 months from retirement i would bail myself

Diverb
12-04-2018, 01:59 PM
Yes, AMO pilot hiring has been very low over the last 5 years. If memory serves me, I believe the agency hired about 100 or so in a 6 year time period. With airline pilot hiring in overdrive, AMO will be desperately hiring pilots for the next decade!

I know of two pilots at my branch who are looking for another job. AMO hasnít even taken into consideration the amount retirement eligible guys this year and next. I love when management talks about how well were doing hiring and getting new guys in the pipeline but they fail to mention to the 20-30 we loose every year

KaiGywer
12-04-2018, 06:11 PM
not likely. Your still going to have to accumulate a 1000 hours of flight time and have your comerrical/instrument ticket. The commercial and instrument is easy to get, but the the flight time will take awhile unless you have really deep pockets. I know several guys at GF who only fly the C210 or AS350 one or two days a month if they are lucky. I would recommend trying to get on with a large city or state LE agency who has their own avaition unti. If i wasnt 59 months from retirement i would bail myself

Yeah sitting at 370hrs right now, and the goal has been 1500 for airlines, but wouldn't mind looking into CBP. But, if what you say about 1-2 flying days a month is normal, then probably not.

Diverb
12-04-2018, 07:56 PM
Yeah sitting at 370hrs right now, and the goal has been 1500 for airlines, but wouldn't mind looking into CBP. But, if what you say about 1-2 flying days a month is normal, then probably not.

Just to be fair, 1-2 days a month of real flying is if you get stuck at a UAS branch. If your lucky enough to get a a non-UAS location then of course you will fly a few days a week, but that usually requires a lot of helicopter time and or dual rated.

DrH361
12-04-2018, 10:47 PM
Are there any new hire locations that are a non-uas branch? 1300 hour (200 turbine pic, 30 hours sic part 91 jet time) commercial single/multi, CFI, cfii, Mei, and currently a full time police officer for 12 years. Career sounds interesting but I did not spend 60k out of my own pocket for every rating possible just to go fly drones. Any valuable input? Thanks a lot.

Diverb
12-05-2018, 05:19 AM
Are there any new hire locations that are a non-uas branch? 1300 hour (200 turbine pic, 30 hours sic part 91 jet time) commercial single/multi, CFI, cfii, Mei, and currently a full time police officer for 12 years. Career sounds interesting but I did not spend 60k out of my own pocket for every rating possible just to go fly drones. Any valuable input? Thanks a lot.

Puerto Rico and McAllen Tx, Laredo and Alpine TX locations have real aircraft and are NON-UAS. Trust me I understand, I too spent about $40k to finish my ratings and I haven't been a real agency aircraft in nearly 5 months due to our UAS op-tempo.

kaputt
12-05-2018, 11:46 AM
I know of two pilots at my branch who are looking for another job. AMO hasnít even taken into consideration the amount retirement eligible guys this year and next. I love when management talks about how well were doing hiring and getting new guys in the pipeline but they fail to mention to the 20-30 we loose every year

Is it like this on the southern border as well? Or can you fly a lot down there?

Diverb
12-05-2018, 01:49 PM
Is it like this on the southern border as well? Or can you fly a lot down there?

Again if your at a southern border non-UAS branch then yes you can fly a lot, although I have a buddy in Texas and he tells me he only flys about 3-4 days a week on average.

KaiGywer
12-05-2018, 07:32 PM
Again if your at a southern border non-UAS branch then yes you can fly a lot, although I have a buddy in Texas and he tells me he only flys about 3-4 days a week on average.

To be fair, if a work week is only 5 days, 3-4 days of flying isn't bad. Lol

Jim4sparks
12-17-2018, 02:13 PM
Is there anyone who is based in Puerto Rico that can give some insight on living conditions. Availability of housing. Taxes? What is the leadership like?

Tibhar87
01-04-2019, 02:28 PM
So are the AIA's affected by the government shutdown? how about previous shutdowns?

Tibhar87
01-04-2019, 02:32 PM
So are the AIA's affected by the gov. shutdown? have they missed any pay during previous shutdowns?

Diverb
01-05-2019, 04:49 AM
So are the AIA's affected by the gov. shutdown? have they missed any pay during previous shutdowns?

YES, we are affected. Working for free right now with no pay. Problem is once the G is back in operation, they backpay us all on one check and you get screwed in taxes. A couple of us in my office jumped on Mil leave for a few weeks to get a paycheck

Tibhar87
01-07-2019, 02:00 PM
YES, we are affected. Working for free right now with no pay. Problem is once the G is back in operation, they backpay us all on one check and you get screwed in taxes. A couple of us in my office jumped on Mil leave for a few weeks to get a paycheck
I didn't know there were extra taxes involved in receiving all that back pay at once and that can't be good for morale. Hope it gets resolved soon...

tanker
01-07-2019, 05:47 PM
What happens is when you get the backpay the IRS assumes that is your rate of pay for the entire year so you have more money withheld for taxes. So when you file your taxes you won't end up paying more taxes but will get a larger return.

saywhat
02-01-2019, 07:47 PM
Recently the pilots of CBP became aware of our "Leaderships" true feelings about the pilot group. CBP was offered an opportunity to participate in a DOD special salary table for its pilots. The special pay table would have given an across the board 25% raise to the pilot group. All CBP "leadership" had to do was say YES. They said NO!

When asked to provide the reason for denying the pay raise CBP "leadership: state the following:

-AMO does not think putting all locations on the DoD SSR would be beneficial to the program long term

- Concerns with the GS-13 eventually making the same as GS-14 and GS-15's on some of the tables

-There would be no incentive for anyone to take on leadership positions when they would be making the same salary based on the pay cap.

"Leadership" is scrambling now to cover their tracks and the original email chain has been deleted. Most of us are used to having totally incompetent leaders.......(its the government after all). But this is a new low, our "leaders" are now actively engaged in keeping us from getting a pay raise. Pilots are leaving this place as fast as they can get out, recruitment is struggling to get applicants and still they will do NOTHING to keep the experienced people they already have.

For anybody thinking of coming to CBP Air and Marine......go ANYPLACE else. If any airline will look at you you should go there instead. In the long run you will literally make millions of dollars more and have way better benefits.

BeatNavy
02-01-2019, 08:02 PM
I honestly donít know why anyone goes to or stays at CBP to fly. Airlines have been hiring for a few years now. Plenty of info and people out there talking about how bad it is, yet people still sign up and/or stay. Sounds like there are a lot of other gigs besides the airlines that are better as well. Anyway, good luck to you all.

saywhat
02-01-2019, 08:19 PM
When I got hired at Air and Marine it was a great gig. Airlines were furloughing and I personally knew several unemployed airline guys. I was one of them for a while. The Air and Marine job was a God send. I swore I would never look for another job as long as I lived. Times have changed! There are guys who are planning to stay but usually because their spouse has a good job or because they have fewer than 5 years left. The writing is on the wall......this ship is sinking and most the rats are running for it.

WacoQCF
02-03-2019, 06:10 AM
I must also endorse all of what is said above, as a former OAM Pilot (2008 - 2017).

These guys are speaking the truth, and unfortunately the management of Air and Marine has destroyed a great program ...and taken the morale with it.

Every OAM Pilot I know is either resigning, or will be headed to an airline as soon as they hit retirement eligibility. For those stuck with less than 7 years to retire, they are simply bearing with the scenario they are given.

What OAM will likely end up with is a bunch of low time rotor or commercial airplane pilots looking to build time to 1500 hours (and maybe a King Air type rating) before they can leave.

JamesNoBrakes
02-03-2019, 10:20 AM
-There would be no incentive for anyone to take on leadership positions when they would be making the same salary based on the pay cap.

That's funny, because that's the way it is in the FAA. When you become a manager, you get a 7% pay-bump, but it's based on your current grade, so if you are a 13, you can end up making less money than the 14 principal inspectors that work for you. It's been this way since...forever. Then there's the pay steps, so again, regardless of your grade, there's no guarantee that taking a management/leadership position will net you any more money. The way it works most of the time is people wait until they are a high 14 and then make the move to a manager, which has the added bonus of getting someone in there that's actually done the job for a while and knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, we are hurting so much for managers (and people in general) that sometimes short term 13s or people that have been inspectors for only a year have jumped to management positions, which often ends up being a "blind leading the blind" situation with lots of craziness coming down from up top. Luckily, I've been spared from that, but I've seen it plenty.

BAJ135
02-03-2019, 10:38 AM
Everything these guys have written is true. I spent 11 years there because I kept telling myself it couldnít get any worse. It was a tough decision to leave but in hindsight it was the best decision I ever made. I kick myself daily for not having left sooner. You really have to experience it yourself to grasp the full incompetence of management at AMO, OAM or whatever they call themselves these days. Theyíve managed to destroy one of the most sought after jobs in less than a decade. If your looking for a job with a steady paycheck, good benefits and a mediocre retirement and not worried about job satisfaction then this job is for you.

This pretty much covers the supervisor to pilot ratio after the mass exodus over the last couple of years.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=elsY08Edgwk

Diverb
02-04-2019, 06:11 AM
It's going to be a long 4yrs 5months and 16 days. I agree a 100% with what has been written, back in 2008 this was the job to have and I couldn't wait to finish my ratings and get transferred in. This simply isn't the same job as it was. More and more air branches are being run by boat guys just so they can get the higher GS pay rate. At my location we even had 2 non AIA pilots quit and go to the regionals or charter within the last 12 months.

As the UAS program continues to grow, I think it will be harder to lure pilots in. Last I heard from a guy who is in the "know" is there are nearly a 100 pilots who are retirement eligible in the next 18 months, I doubt AMO is even tracking that

Choppersnplanes
02-05-2019, 07:14 AM
Ok folks I just read thru 13 pages of how terrible it is to be an AIA right now. Other than the fact youíll be stuck flying a UAS or C-206. Can someone elaborate on what is making it so terrible? Is this because no one is flying as much as they want? What is management doing to you on a daily basis to make it this bad? Iíll be honest. The reason I ask is because Iím thinking about applying. Iím looking for a job that gets me home most nights with my family, steady decent pay check and retirement. I love flying but Iíve flown enough that if I got stuck in a UAS Iíd be ok with it.

BAJ135
02-05-2019, 08:57 AM
Ok folks I just read thru 13 pages of how terrible it is to be an AIA right now. Other than the fact youíll be stuck flying a UAS or C-206. Can someone elaborate on what is making it so terrible? Is this because no one is flying as much as they want? What is management doing to you on a daily basis to make it this bad? Iíll be honest. The reason I ask is because Iím thinking about applying. Iím looking for a job that gets me home most nights with my family, steady decent pay check and retirement. I love flying but Iíve flown enough that if I got stuck in a UAS Iíd be ok with it.

If youíve only read through 13 pages you didnít try very hard. All the information you seek is out there. If you want to fly UAS and C-206s this is probably the perfect job for you. As far as being in your own bed every night, good luck with that.

BAJ135
02-05-2019, 03:49 PM
I didn't realize the pay for traffic watch was much better. I made $50 a day when I did it. I was losing my mind while flying up and down the same road 6 hours a day. Year one pay at a regional is now more than most year one EMS jobs. It's funny just different perspectives pilots have. I fly EMS now and can't stand the schedule and QOL. I'm one of the lucky ones because I live an hour from my base, and I very rarely see my family on the weeks I work. I would consider my self gone at least 17 days a month, and I live where I work.

Well I may have misspoke about this being the perfect job for you if you lose your mind flying up and down the same road for 6 hours. If that bothers you then you arenít going to like the job. If you can get past that and flying a C-206 or UAS for the next 20 years doesnít bother you then go for it. The information you seek is all over the internet. Do some research, talk to a recruiter, and make the determination on whether the job will work for you. You will have a steady check (May have to wait for backpay when the government is shutdown), descent benefits, and a retirement. As far as your own bed most nights that is really location specific. Until you know your branch assignment it would be difficult to determine how much traveling you would do.

Iíd ask some pretty pointed questions if you do talk to the recruiter. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Iíd start with your initial duty location. Most people would consider it a less than desirable location but I wouldnít worry about that because you can transfer in 3 years. It only took me 6 years to get out of my first duty location and it happened quickly because instead of continuing to chase prime locations I accepted another less desirable local.

You would have to write a novel to explain everything that is wrong with this agency in one place. I wouldnít let these message boards and the fact that 100s of people have fled the place in the last couple years deter you. This job might very well work for you. Youíre the only one who can make that determination. Good luck with the job hunt! If you do decide to pursue the job and get hired please come back in a few years and let us know how itís going!

Choppersnplanes
02-06-2019, 06:25 AM
Well I may have misspoke about this being the perfect job for you if you lose your mind flying up and down the same road for 6 hours. If that bothers you then you arenít going to like the job. If you can get past that and flying a C-206 or UAS for the next 20 years doesnít bother you then go for it. The information you seek is all over the internet. Do some research, talk to a recruiter, and make the determination on whether the job will work for you. You will have a steady check (May have to wait for backpay when the government is shutdown), descent benefits, and a retirement. As far as your own bed most nights that is really location specific. Until you know your branch assignment it would be difficult to determine how much traveling you would do.

Iíd ask some pretty pointed questions if you do talk to the recruiter. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Iíd start with your initial duty location. Most people would consider it a less than desirable location but I wouldnít worry about that because you can transfer in 3 years. It only took me 6 years to get out of my first duty location and it happened quickly because instead of continuing to chase prime locations I accepted another less desirable local.

You would have to write a novel to explain everything that is wrong with this agency in one place. I wouldnít let these message boards and the fact that 100s of people have fled the place in the last couple years deter you. This job might very well work for you. Youíre the only one who can make that determination. Good luck with the job hunt! If you do decide to pursue the job and get hired please come back in a few years and let us know how itís going!

BAJ135 I really appreciate the feed back. That traffic watch job was a LONG time ago. Iíve had the opportunity to see a few boarder missions, and If I had to choose between that and traffic watch. Definitely not traffic watch. I think Iíve flown almost every type of CBP aircraft out there except for the Dash and MQ-9 and any of them are better than that traffic watch C-172. That was a great time builder job though.

Iíve done more research on this AIA job than most. A lot of things have to fall into place for this work out.

kaputt
02-06-2019, 09:30 AM
I've had continued interest in flying for CBP for awhile now. But something that I've seen as a big detriment is the fact that there seems to be no clear path to moving on to other air-frames with other mission sets.

I personally could probably manage a Southern Border location and a C206 assignment if there was the possibility of upgrading into one of the King Air's Dash-8s, PC-12s, P-3s, etc... down the road. But every time I've spoken with someone in CBP, they can't guarantee you would ever see one of those aircraft.

I'm not at the point yet where I can make the jump to any real aviation job (still on active duty and still low flight hours), but as of right now I'd say if you have an interest in law enforcement and also flying, the FFDO program might be something to consider. I will continue to keep my eye on CBP though for any possible improvements.

I'll also add, that it does seem that the job may be a better fit for Rotor Wing guys. For obvious reasons, the helos do a ton of work for CBP.

rickair7777
02-07-2019, 03:53 PM
No operational details about FFDO (or FAMs) please.

RCpilot2018
02-20-2019, 02:30 PM
Recently the pilots of CBP became aware of our "Leaderships" true feelings about the pilot group. CBP was offered an opportunity to participate in a DOD special salary table for its pilots. The special pay table would have given an across the board 25% raise to the pilot group. All CBP "leadership" had to do was say YES. They said NO!

When asked to provide the reason for denying the pay raise CBP "leadership: state the following:

-AMO does not think putting all locations on the DoD SSR would be beneficial to the program long term

- Concerns with the GS-13 eventually making the same as GS-14 and GS-15's on some of the tables

-There would be no incentive for anyone to take on leadership positions when they would be making the same salary based on the pay cap.

"Leadership" is scrambling now to cover their tracks and the original email chain has been deleted. Most of us are used to having totally incompetent leaders.......(its the government after all). But this is a new low, our "leaders" are now actively engaged in keeping us from getting a pay raise. Pilots are leaving this place as fast as they can get out, recruitment is struggling to get applicants and still they will do NOTHING to keep the experienced people they already have.

For anybody thinking of coming to CBP Air and Marine......go ANYPLACE else. If any airline will look at you you should go there instead. In the long run you will literally make millions of dollars more and have way better benefits.

All,

Apparently there is a new proposal of a 35% cola / special salary rate.

kaputt
02-23-2019, 11:40 AM
All,

Apparently there is a new proposal of a 35% cola / special salary rate.

Good news. Any idea how long it may take to get approved?

Also, would multi turbine time be competitive to getting assigned the Dash in Puerto Rico? And how many hours a year do the guys down there fly?

Phoenix21
02-23-2019, 12:07 PM
Good news. Any idea how long it may take to get approved?

Years... if ever.

saywhat
02-26-2019, 09:51 AM
CBP is spinning this as a 35% pay raise. It definitely is NOT. I live in a high cost of living area and this "raise" would make almost no difference whatsoever. Your local cost of living is basically subtracted out of the 35%........so for some of us that means 6 or 7% raise. Additionally, The bi-weekly and annual pay caps have not been raised. So basically you will just hit your pay cap every two weeks (but don't worry, they will be sure to show you how much money you would have earned.....also known as money you are giving back the agency or amount of time you worked for free.)

Its been said MANY times before on this message board but I cant over state how incompetent our leadership is. They are completely unwilling to do the work necessary to get us a real raise and they don't even bother to hide their disdain for the pilot group.

There are definitely worse jobs out there but there are also a lot of WAY better jobs too. Once you are in the system here it is hard to get out......mostly crappy flight time that wont set you up to move on to better things. Most of us that are flying multi-turbine here are planning our escape.

RCpilot2018
02-26-2019, 02:31 PM
CBP is spinning this as a 35% pay raise. It definitely is NOT. I live in a high cost of living area and this "raise" would make almost no difference whatsoever. Your local cost of living is basically subtracted out of the 35%........so for some of us that means 6 or 7% raise. Additionally, The bi-weekly and annual pay caps have not been raised. So basically you will just hit your pay cap every two weeks (but don't worry, they will be sure to show you how much money you would have earned.....also known as money you are giving back the agency or amount of time you worked for free.)

Its been said MANY times before on this message board but I cant over state how incompetent our leadership is. They are completely unwilling to do the work necessary to get us a real raise and they don't even bother to hide their disdain for the pilot group.



There are definitely worse jobs out there but there are also a lot of WAY better jobs too. Once you are in the system here it is hard to get out......mostly crappy flight time that wont set you up to move on to better things. Most of us that are flying multi-turbine here are planning our escape.

Well sir, I couldn't agree with you more. However, since I'm one of the minions under "RUS," I'll gladly take the 19.63% raise of base pay. With that said, the AC recently said that pilots are all the same and that they should be compensated the same. So, let's pay a C-206 copilot the same as a P3 aircraft commander. What a joke!

APU1
03-05-2019, 10:29 AM
Anybody here currently working in any of the new hire locations?
Can you tell me what your QOL and schedule is like at your location?
Iím not really intrested in flying drones, so Arizona is out of the question for now.
Whatís it like having your family in Puerto Rico? I see they have a DoD school for your children, so thatís good. Beaches look nice.
How do you move from GS-11 to GS-12? How long does it take? And from GS12 to GS-13?
Can you get hired on as a GS-13 or GS-12? Can you get hired on at higher than year 1?
Whatís it take to get to supervisor or director or whatever GS14 and GS15 are?

So retirement is 1% or 1.1% for every year of service and based on your highest 3 year average, right? So 20 years of service gives you 20% and 30 years gives you 30%, right? Somebody on here mentioned 50% but I donít see how thatís possible.

I see a lot of negative in these forums, anybody feel positive about this job?

Diverb
03-05-2019, 09:28 PM
Anybody here currently working in any of the new hire locations?
Can you tell me what your QOL and schedule is like at your location?
I’m not really intrested in flying drones, so Arizona is out of the question for now.
What’s it like having your family in Puerto Rico? I see they have a DoD school for your children, so that’s good. Beaches look nice.
How do you move from GS-11 to GS-12? How long does it take? And from GS12 to GS-13?
Can you get hired on as a GS-13 or GS-12? Can you get hired on at higher than year 1?
What’s it take to get to supervisor or director or whatever GS14 and GS15 are?

So retirement is 1% or 1.1% for every year of service and based on your highest 3 year average, right? So 20 years of service gives you 20% and 30 years gives you 30%, right? Somebody on here mentioned 50% but I don’t see how that’s possible.

I see a lot of negative in these forums, anybody feel positive about this job?


GS11 to GS12 is one year from your entrance on duty (EOD) which is your date of hire. GS12 to GS13 is again after your second year. GS11 is what you will have to start at, even those of us who came over from other Federal Agency's who were GS12's had to drop back to GS11. As far as the supervisor route, after you make GS13 you can take the supervisor written exam. I have ZERO desire to be a supervisor with this agency, so I don't know about the process other that.

Since you said no to the UAS program, AZ, TX, and ND are UAS locations that you will want to avoid. I've only been to Puerto Rico on short TDY's, I have a few friends there. The work is good and its pretty, but the taxes are high. Both my friends there are single with no kids, so I'm unable to answer the school question for you.

saywhat
03-06-2019, 09:52 AM
Retirement is 1.7% x years of service. So 20 years gets you 34% retirement. It's based on your high three earning years.

I would say at this point the only people who should consider this job would be low time Helicopter only guys. The reality of the situation now is that if you have any fixed wing time you should go to ANY airline that will hire you. Over the course of your career you will have way better benefits and earn a boat load more money.

I know people like to complain on these message boards so you should always take all this info with a grain of salt. But I am in one of the better locations in Air and Marine and we have had 4 guys leave to go to other jobs in the last several weeks. There is a reason a high percentage of current Pilots are looking for better opportunities. None of us really know what this agency is going to look like in 5 years. At the current rate of decline we are seriously concerned about whether or not Air and Marine will survive in its current form for us to make it to retirement.

My opinion is that this isn't a terrible job but it used to be WAY better and its getting worse every day due to incompetent leadership and high attrition rate.

Diverb
03-06-2019, 09:17 PM
None of us really know what this agency is going to look like in 5 years. At the current rate of decline we are seriously concerned about whether or not Air and Marine will survive in its current form for us to make it to retirement.


All true, this is a topic of discussion several times a month at my branch. Several of us believe the Border Patrol will absorb AMO

kaputt
03-07-2019, 08:34 AM
Bring back the Super Cubs and Iíll sign up in a heartbeat!

RCpilot2018
03-11-2019, 01:01 PM
When looking at the possible new hire locations, odds are that you will fly a MQ9, C-206 or AS350. Yes, it will eventually be possible to get into a Hawk in PR or McAllen.

GOOD LUCK!

Diverb
03-11-2019, 02:57 PM
We had the region director visit about a week ago, he said if he gets his way he will remove the PC-12 from San Angelo and place it in California, leaving San Angelo a MQ9 only location. I know HQ wants to buy another GCS and maybe another 2 MQ9's within the next year or two.

I think AMO wants to move towards more MQ-9's and less Fixedwing assets in the future

skylike
03-12-2019, 08:42 AM
I must agree with Saywhat. This is a good job for helicopter bubbas, if you are able to live in the new hire locations. There are still some locations where fixed wing guys have a great job but any new hire will never get to them because their days are numbered. The pathways have been intentionally blocked, not out of malice just to meet current needs. Fixed wing, multi engine pilots will probably regret accepting a position with CBP as the spectre of the UAV is too great. Do not expect to come here and build fixed wing time in multi engine turbine aircraft. You could, however, become the highest paid single engine piston pilot in the world.

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 10:05 AM
I wanted to post a warning to anyone considering this job. As many others have already posted, its not what it used to be.

WARNING: I'm bitter and jaded. But I speak the truth.

Let me start with our contract rules. There are only two.
Max 16 hour crew day
Min 10 hours crew rest.

LEAP= we don't pay you overtime, and can make you stay 16 hours or have you work on your scheduled day off. For no extra pay.

So LEAP is an additional 25% above your base pay. The expectation is that you will work a 10 hour day a preponderance of the time. What does that mean? It means, 25% more pay for 25% more time. That's not overtime. That means they expect you to work a 10 hour day, 5 days a week, but only get paid 10 hours at the regular rate. What a deal for them. The 40 hour work week is now a 50 hour week. We don't always work a 10 hours day. But....


LEAP allows management to call you in on a day off, and not pay you for it. LEAP has become managements solution to manpower shortages, and catching up on flight hours.

Overtime: Most people at AMO/OAM, whatever we call ourselves this year, don't know this part. Though there are times we can get overtime. Its not at an overtime rate. Its actually at the GS-12 rate. Also, there is a pay period cap on it.


Example (real life story): Monday 0800 shift. Do a "patrol" for 2 hours. Land at 1200. At 1500 management gets a "request", and tells you to stay late. Fly from 1700-2000. Refuel+Red Bull. Fly 2100-2300. Feel good. Caught some bad guys. Land, paperwork. computer locks up. redo paperwork. Leave by 2400.

Supervisor says only 10 hours off. Needs me to do a Mx flight tomorrow.

Get home, cant sleep because of the 2000 Red Bull.

Tuesday: 1000-1800 (6 hours sleep, but risk assessment is still LOW)
Wed-Friday: 0800-1600 Plus some extra LEAP hours
Friday afternoon: We just got a call. You need to work Saturday 1200-2400

So that's 56 hours of work. 1 day off in 7 days, and paid for 50 hours of regular pay. My point is not about pay. My point is, LEAP has become a way for management to solve all its problems. They can write a normal looking schedule. Then completely change it day to day, and it doesn't cost them a dime. There are no consequences or cost to change your schedule.

Am I whining? When I took this job, I didn't appreciate ALPA union work rules. Now I completely understand. Now I understand why airline pilot negotiate new terms. Its not just more pay. Its because management keeps finding a loophole. Here the loophole is the size of Texas.


I'm not trying to whine. I'm comparing this to the airlines. Hence this forum. Some of you remember these days. Here is the important part: IT NEVER ENDS. This goes on every week, every month, every year for 20 years. There is no seniority. No 96 hour squadron stand down. Work ups. Down time. Bidding. Nothing. You can, and likely will be treated the same from day one to your last day. It actually get worse? How? The older you get, the more quals you have. Like Mx pilot or IP. Then they totally jerk your schedule around. You can now be used to fill all the schedule holes.

Extra pay for IP? No
Extra pay for Mx Pilot? No
Extra pay for Saturday work: No
Extra pay for coming in on a day off, because you really do enjoy catching bad guys? No (Our bonus is around $500 a year)


The first 10 years here were great. I couldn't say enough good things. Now the smart ones have retired or left themselves for the airlines.

You will very likely enjoy the first 5 years. Then you will realize how little time you are seeing your family. How little management cares about your well being. That there is no policy you can reference that protects you. How dysfunctional HR is. IT systems that don't work. Hours to do a travel claim and spending months for it to be paid. How unreliable, lazy or incompetent some of the mechanics are. Your favorite and trusted mechanic got laid off with the "new contract". Your supervisor has never flown an airplane. Your director hasn't worked a weekend or past 1900 in 5 years. Important positions in the branch go unfilled.

Then you will look at your friends at places other then CBP. Their lives have been improving over the 5 years while yours just keeps getting worse. With no seniority, policy or rules. But you will get 10 hours crew rest and random days off that may or may not match your families.

Good luck. Are you single and dream of flying big iron? This may be the perfect job for you. Does your wife want to live in Laredo for 5 years and your days off are Friday and Saturday? Do you want your kids to go to a decent school? Do you want to participate in the after school lives of your kids at least half the week? Do you want to take orders from a person that has never flown an airplane, works M-F, peaked in the 9th grade and weighs 300 lbs?

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 10:24 AM
LEAP: LEAP stands for Law Enforcement Availability Pay. Here is what it means:
- LEAP is your basic pay x 25%
- We are exempt from FLSA Work Rules (Fed Labor Standards Act)
- We are expected to work a 10 hour day, 5 days a week
- We are not paid for unscheduled or unforeseen work. Any changes that happen during the current work week are not paid.


Examples or LEAP (no extra pay)

- Saturday is your day off. Boss tells you Friday afternoon to work a 8 hours shift the next day.
- Your shift is 0800-1600. Someone gets a "tip", and you need to do a patrol at 2000 because there is nobody is scheduled that night.
- TDY and scheduled for a 12 hour shift. This is considered only 2 hours of overtime. Not 4.


Overtime: Overtime is only authorized if you are scheduled for it the week prior, and only for hours beyond a 10 hour day OR if you are scheduled to work beyond 5 days in normal 7 day week. DIRTY SECRET: In the rare times overtime is scheduled and approved. The overtime pay rate is LESS then your normal salary rate. YEP! I cant find it, but basically you get regular GS-12 pay. Not your GS-13 rate+LEAP. More hours and less pay. Remember I said we are exempt from FLSA.


So to recap: We are short pilots. So how do we keep up? Work more LEAP and schedule overtime pay that is cheaper then hiring a new pilot. Win+Win for AMO.

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 10:49 AM
Scheduling: Are schedule is basically done by "Pay Period". Which is 14 days. 99% of the time you will get 4 days off per Pay Period.
- is always a Sunday through Saturday (14 days)
- there is no rule which 4 days
- nothing says you will get two days off in a row
- nothing says you will get a Friday or Saturday off

Example (not typical, but does happen):

Off Sunday and Monday
1400-2200 for 10 days (Tuesday though following Thursday)
Off Friday and Saturday

Shifts:
There is no national policy on schedules or shifts. Each branch has sets their own shifts and days of the week. Ive rarely seen two do it the same way. Many places will have 2 or 3 "groups". Group A may be 0600-1400 Sunday through Thursday. Group B Tues-Sat 1400-2200. Group C 1800-0200. They may switch monthly or quarterly. You may move around a lot due to training or to cover holes in the schedule.

8 hour day: you must work at least 8 hours a day and 40 hours in a 7 day week. So no matter what. You must be at the office. Even if all the planes are broken, the Wx is awful or you just cant fly, you will stare at the ceiling (not really.. see next post). There is no 96 hour liberty or "on call" at home. Home doesn't count for anything, and we don't have G vehicles. So unlike our Boat Drivers who can drive around in their G rides and take a 3 hour lunch with the guys or go visit a Marina on the way home when they are unable to float, we sit in the office. Sometimes we can take a g ride to a local airport... but.. you still have to bring it back to the office at the end of the day. That gets stupid and boring fast.


TDY: I generally feel that TDYs are a good deal. Go someplace new. Do something different. Catch bad guys. get per diem. Stay in a decent hotel and get hotel points Ive been to good places. Ive been to terrible places. But I knew that part when I took the job. So cant complain. TDY is good because the work is sometimes hard. Like 0200 patrols, but at least you get per diem, and get decent sleep in quiet hotel room. I enjoy TDY, because at home we take off and land at the same airport. Nothing like 70 hours a month and never landing at a anywhere but your home base. Are we there yet? Circles

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 11:05 AM
Typical Day: Most places start with a shift brief. There isn't always a flight schedule, if there is, its not in stone. So there will usually be a shift brief. Figure out who came to work, what aircraft are working, which need a Mx pilot, a Wx brief and intel. This is the good part. when you come to work, you never really know what you will fly, where or with who. But that is a double edged sword.

When you are not flying, there is often plenty to do. A mix of things that are actually important:
- gun range each quarter
- tactics training each quarter
- duty desk
- online annual training
- admin stuff: timecards, travel authorization, travel claims, misc

Then there is the stuff that will make you scream:
- IT systems that lock up
- outdated or poorly designed systems that require an expert to understand
- HR persons who hate their job, are incompetent, both and are generally unhelpful.
- Unfilled support positions. People who quit or retired, and take months to replace. Payroll person, travel person, Mx officer. Those jobs you can live without, but make things much harder to do.
- paperwork: Its the G, we love paperwork. We don't know why we are doing it, but it has to get done or someone, somewhere may have to work or not get their bonus for the year.

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 11:27 AM
- Aviators: tough one to describe. We are not a professional aviation organization. I don't care what some may say. Our organizational model is not designed like a aviation unit. It is BP model. leadership is not required to have any aviation background. Their is no leadership path or position for experienced pilots. An IP or standards pilot is still a GS-13 and gets paid the same as a line pilot who only has a rotor or fixed wing rating. There is no chief pilot.


Supervisors: A BP agent can lateral to AMO and become a supervisor. An AIA can ONLY become an SAIA. We cannot lateral to BP or supervise boat units. Every unit is different, but supervisors are generally discouraged from flying. This breeds two issues. Weak pilots applying for supervisor. Lazy pilots applying for supervisor. Not saying all or even most are poor or weak aviators. But the system does not reward good aviators who are experts in aviation and want to take on more aviation leadership. I can say that the best pilot in any AMO unit is a line pilot, and not a supervisor. There are good Sups, but the really good pilots very rarely apply for SAIA. This allows weaker aviators or people with little leadership experience to rise quickly. You will not be impressed with the leadership.


Typical Supervisor: Typical may be the wrong term. But here is what many look like, and the number is growing:

-less then 3000 hours (if they are a pilot)

-Not a pilot. Former radar operator, boat driver, BP agent

- Overweight: my point is that we claim to be Law Enforcement, but our leaders set poor examples

- No college

- peaked in high school


Support Staff: This is another area that is really seeing a decline. HR staff is getting smaller. Those that remain are now bitter and angry to have more work and same pay.


Mechanics: Another area in decline. The last maintenance contract gutted our most experienced and motivated mechanics. The contract removed requirements and lowered the bar on hiring. Many with advanced experience either left, were laid off or took a pay cut. Again, more work, less pay, decline in morale. Years ago the mechs were absolutely motivated and trusted. They would bend over backwards. Stay late, help you load the helo, answer questions, or just plain hustle when their was a real mission and everyone was in a hurry to go catch a bad guy. They were part of the team. Most places now have a stressful relationship with their mechanics. Planes that take forever to get fixed. Slow progress, and overall us vs them attitude. Not the ideal relationship for a professional aviation organization. Low readiness rates, slow work, and distrust. Not everywhere, but many places and growing.

Grom1234
03-12-2019, 11:39 AM
Just a quick question for the AMO guys, what's happens to a pilot that has a medical issue pop up or ends up losing a medical? How does AMO handle that?

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 11:49 AM
Ok.. so I went on a tirade and whined for an hour. So there must be some good. Well there is.

We have some good aircraft:
AS-350: Dual FADEC, A/C, XM Weather, great helo
UH-60 L/M: full glass, painted black, lots of power and just a baddaxx helo. Good missions.
MEA/King Air 350/C-12: Well good and bad.
Good: ProLine 21, new aircraft, good sensors
Bad: poor performance (slow, underpowered)

Bad aircraft:
PC12: good plane, only have 2 or 3 nationwide
C-206: junk
EC-120: cool looking, underpowered, no FLIR

The mission: tricky topic. There is definitely a mission. Plenty of bad guys on the land border, on boats and even planes. We have some cool programs that pilots can volunteer for. Comm stuff, airborne snipers, tactics stuff. Mostly underutilized but once a year you may support the Superbowl, or some other high visibility event. TDYs as I mentioned before can be a lot of fun. Stay in a good hotel, catch bad guys, eat good food, fly over new terrain, repeat for 10 days.

Guns: if you like guns, we have guns and plenty of ammo and range time. We go to the range 4 times a year, and the shooting is decent. Its not the military style of robotic shooting. Fairly tactical and usually fun.

VFR flying: one of the best parts. We rarely fly IFR. The job is VFR looking for stuff. This is not the airlines, with the autopilot on, talking to ATC and grandma in the back. This is often NVGs, or at night. Looking. Doesn't always pay off, but when it does, it feels good. A good car chase, or drug bust. Flash bangs, car wrecks, or chasing something or someone. The flying can be very good.


People: we do have some good people. Lots of different backgrounds and some really good pilots. Fighter guys, helo guys, freight guys, or guys who learned in BP. Most of us fly two different aircraft. You may fly the helo in the morning, and get a call out to fly the C-12 that evening.


So the flying part is good. But that only about 15 hours of the week. Its the 30-40 hours in the office that frustrates most of us.

But there is a dark side to the flying too.....

Diverb
03-12-2019, 12:12 PM
Just a quick question for the AMO guys, what's happens to a pilot that has a medical issue pop up or ends up losing a medical? How does AMO handle that?

Ive only personnaly known this to happen once. Managment placed him into a operations position where he managed the air support request and schedulled the special events. Others on here may have different experiences.

Since I also possess a US Coast Guard captains license I may claim to lose my medical so maybe they'll transfer me to a Marine unit and I can go do my last couple years cruising around on the water in a desirable location instead of the UAS location im stuck at. Haha

TheGreatSantini
03-12-2019, 01:17 PM
So I mentioned the good. Now the bad.

Schedule Changes: I have no idea what my schedule will be in 2 weeks. And whatever is posted has a 50% chance it will be changed. My wife doesn't make dinner anymore unless I tell her Im on the way home,

Seniority: We have absolutely no seniority. Except the rate we earn leave. Besides that.

There is no seniority for
your schedule
your days off
your vacation days
what aircraft you fly
who go TDY
when and if you PCS
what you will do tomorrow at work
any position in the office (training, instructor, firearms)

So a pilot with 30 years and age 56 just jammed worse then a new pilot with no quals.


Vacation Time and Days at Work:
This is interesting. After a few years many of us prior military will earn 8 hours Vacation Time.

Here are all the benefits you may be eligible for. Per year.
26 vacation days (work days NOT calendar days)
10 paid federal holidays ( you will likely worth half of them)
15 paid days for guard or reservists
13 days paid sick leave (plan on using 5 per year)


That's 10 weeks of excused and paid work or 42 weeks.

42 weeks x 5 days = 210 work days per year or 17 days per month.


so you say.. hey, that's about what a SWA flies. Well not really.

That's 17-20 days per month your entire career. Remember. No seniority. No moving up. No long haul. No bidding reserve.

Your last year WILL be as painful as your first year here.

Ohh.. but we sleep in our own bed every night?

Well not so fast. We do often go TDY to garden spots like Tucson or McAllen, and at home we often work nights. So that means working until midnight. Driving home. Sneaking into the house at 1am. Sleeping in your own bed, then having everyone in the house wake you up at 7am when they go to school.


Its not terrible. But it must be considered.


How do others do it??

MEDFLIGHT:
12 hours on, 12 hours off. 7 days on 7 days off
Wow.. 7 days off in a row sounds nice.
Sleeping during shift sounds nice too.


Almost forgot. The flying. We have become very focused on flight hours. Don't know why. Maybe its the pilot shortage. Competing with USCG or plain stupidity. But flying circles over the same stretch of desert or water gets old. We aren't doing overnight trips to Cancun with 20 hour layovers. It can be 6 hours in the same 20x20 mile box. With little to zero hope of actually accomplishing anything because the weather is marginal, nobody on the ground, or just no real intel. Just "patrolling".

About as exciting as driving a fire truck around the Sahara desert looking for a house fire.

Good friend is a fireman. They stay in shape. They are meticulous about keeping their equipment in top working order and they sleep and rest when there is no fire. That truck goes to fires, schools and the local Applebees. When there is a fire, they are ready and so is the equipment. We fly to fly, land tired, then go back up flying because somebody may have seen a fire.

Computer Systems: I swear there is some sick IT jokester at our HQ. We constantly change travel systems, nobody seems to know how to work out the bugs, HR is absolutely no help. Our systems are probably our number one enemy. A day doesn't go by that somebody in the office has some sort of IT based issue. An error message, locked up, cant figure it out. Whatever. It is incredible the amount of lost time we spend battling our own computer systems. Our IT systems:
Payroll
training
flight logs
travel
DHS training
Im sure I forgot one. Mind boggling how poorly they function.


Like someone said. You can be the highest paid single engine piston pilot in the entire country... before your divorce.

hindsight2020
03-13-2019, 09:16 AM
As has been highlighted before, folks do these BP related jobs (and yes I'm pointedly lumping everyone under the BP banner, I know AMO hates that) because they have ties to the local area. Being paid GS-13 to live in proverbial McAllen, Sierra Vista et al is all about local ties, not a flying progression worth putting up with those places. Most of the folks I knew in Del Rio (non-pilots) were doing it for a lateral to other agencies. That either would take years or their loved ones would give up on them. It's the reason we could never hire ARTs in my AFRC unit down there and the command finally wised up and knocked it off with the ART nonsense. Even AGRs go unfilled in this hiring environment, or they get filled by airline guys topping off their retirement then they're gone.

I certainly was about to geo-bachelor my family by moving them to bona fide civilization, in order not to lose them if I didn't get a transfer in time for the kid to turn school age. That took me 7 years of my life. I ain't getting that time back, and I'm certainly never doing that again, my life is finite after all lol.

Only the local-tied would be copacetic with that mediocrity, and from their perspective you really can't beat a GS-11 thru 14 in these places, compared to the median income on these places. So sure, a good reason as any for someone in that situation, but it's just not a good setup for most who are not local tied, especially in this aviation hiring environment. To each their own.

kaputt
03-14-2019, 07:36 PM
Iím curious why CBP doesnít bring down the hiring mins, considering their manpower shortage and especially that youíll really only be able to fly a piston single or RPA.

You donít need 1500, or even 1000, to fly a C206 in a law enforcement capacity. I believe USFW and the National Parks will hire law enforcement pilots at 500 hours.

Diverb
03-14-2019, 09:58 PM
Iím curious why CBP doesnít bring down the hiring mins, considering their manpower shortage and especially that youíll really only be able to fly a piston single or RPA.

You donít need 1500, or even 1000, to fly a C206 in a law enforcement capacity. I believe USFW and the National Parks will hire law enforcement pilots at 500 hours.

AMO has reduced the hiring mins. Up till about a year and half ago you had to be commercially dual rated to get hired and honestly you wouldn't even get a phone call back if you were less than 3000hrs TT. Now you can be either fixed or rotor with 1500hrs and get hired. For what its worth, AMO could fill a few AIA slots with current AEA's who are rated, but the stupid policy of taking a pay cut and moving to a new hire location keeps some of the AEA's from wanting to move up to AIA.

I personally know 3 AEA's who are 1500 hr guys (one even has a ATP license) but those guys are GS13 AEA's in good locations, and don't want to bust back down to GS11 and move back to the southern border, so they don't promote up to AIA. AMO has made ZERO incentive for guys to promote up to AIA.

Wrj1996
03-19-2019, 03:35 PM
I'm halfway along the hiring process and my application shows my applied duty location in Birmingham, AL. Does CBP have a base in Alabama?

Diverb
03-22-2019, 06:47 PM
They can write a normal looking schedule. Then completely change it day to day, and it doesn't cost them a dime. There are no consequences or cost to change your schedule.


I've had 4 schedule changes in the past 3 days, ranging from working days to coming back the next day for a late swing early midnight shift. I was just "asked"...well told, next week I will be working another shift entirely due to manpower shortage.

My poor wife has given up asking what my weekly work schedule is, it changes that much

Bandit612
03-27-2019, 06:09 AM
Has anyone been successful into getting into AMO while retired over the grade of O-4? Recruiters are saying not possible without disability points for veterans preference due to being (way) over 40.

Diverb
03-27-2019, 02:39 PM
Has anyone been successful into getting into AMO while retired over the grade of O-4? Recruiters are saying not possible without disability points for veterans preference due to being (way) over 40.

If you are retired military there is no age limit. My academy class had a 57yr old retired Navy P3 guy. He passed just fine

Shifty101
03-31-2019, 10:38 AM
Has anyone been successful into getting into AMO while retired over the grade of O-4? Recruiters are saying not possible without disability points for veterans preference due to being (way) over 40.

If you are a retired 0-4 or above, you must have a disability letter from the VA, of 0% or more, in order to get the age waiver. In 1978, the Civil Service Reform Act amended the employment preference for retired officers by denying it to those retiring at the rank of major (O-4) and above.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/veterans-services-faqs/?page=2

hgc223556
04-04-2019, 05:54 AM
Just saw on the main page CPB is waving the 100 hours within the past year requirement for applicants. Between the experience requirement reductions, no more dual rating, and this recent additional reduction in minimum requirements, I really am curious of what the organization will look like in 1-2 years.

Also, given the most recent comments on here, am curious if there would be any benefits to rolling CBP OAM into Border Patrol or some other restructure that would increase the quality and capability of the organization.

All that said, crazy time to be a pilot given the strength of the economy, airline industry, and bargaining power rated aviators have within the industry depending on ones goals.

Lastly, appreciate everyones' candor on here.

TheGreatSantini
04-06-2019, 07:38 AM
I'm halfway along the hiring process and my application shows my applied duty location in Birmingham, AL. Does CBP have a base in Alabama?


To answer your question. No, we dont have an air unit in Birmingham, AL. What we do have are incompetent and lazy people in our HR department. Not all, but enough. They cant even get your applied location correct.

When HR cant get the simple things correct, just guess how your pay and benefits will be.

Nobody in AMO is accountable, except line pilots. I've never heard leadership take any responsibility for anything. Its never their fault. Its not IT or HR.

Good luck with that application. Just a taste of what you will experience for 20 years. Unpaid travel claims, downright incompetence.

Please share your experience getting that corrected.

Does AMO HQ read this forum? I hope so.

BAJ135
04-06-2019, 12:12 PM
Does AMO HQ read this forum? I hope so.

Donít kid yourself no one at HQ cares.

This on the other hand is interesting.

https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=267584e6977570a5c2c5681edb423abd&tab=core&_cview=0

aeroengineer
04-06-2019, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit612 View Post
Has anyone been successful into getting into AMO while retired over the grade of O-4? Recruiters are saying not possible without disability points for veterans preference due to being (way) over 40.

If you are a retired 0-4 or above, you must have a disability letter from the VA, of 0% or more, in order to get the age waiver. In 1978, the Civil Service Reform Act amended the employment preference for retired officers by denying it to those retiring at the rank of major (O-4) and above.

Don't know if this is your situation but I believe you still get the preference if you are retired from the reserves.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide-for-hr-professionals/

grumpydwarf
04-07-2019, 08:14 PM
I just applied through the April announcement. They drug their feet on the last couple applications; they timed out. I have a couple questions, assuming this application goes through.

Does the application process still take the better part of a year?

How long is FLETC for AIA? I saw conflicting numbers, but the lowest was 73 working days. That's a long time if weekends are not counted.

Is CBP feeling the pain of the pilot shortage? APC shows about 500 pilot on staff, but CBP official websites says they have over 700.

DustoffVT
04-08-2019, 04:25 AM
I just applied through the April announcement. They drug their feet on the last couple applications; they timed out. I have a couple questions, assuming this application goes through.

Does the application process still take the better part of a year?

How long is FLETC for AIA? I saw conflicting numbers, but the lowest was 73 working days. That's a long time if weekends are not counted.

Is CBP feeling the pain of the pilot shortage? APC shows about 500 pilot on staff, but CBP official websites says they have over 700.


The application process still takes a while, it is hard to give estimates because a lot of the hangup is your clearance, which varies for everyone. We have started running one-stop hiring events where you do the face-to-face, poly, etc all in one day. You may want to ask about getting into the next one, I don't know when the next one is.

Figure 3-4 months for FLETC/Spanish.

500 is closer to the truth. We have been told of a raise to boost retention, but no start date yet. It is most likely coming, as DOD/DOS/DOJ/NASA/NOAA GS-13 pilots all saw a significant raise as of 1 JAN.

grumpydwarf
04-08-2019, 01:08 PM
DustoffVT,

Thanks for the info. Can you share what FLETC is like for AIA trianing? Basic daily schedule, how intense is the physical training and do AIA's have to do the room searches and other training that would be more intense for ground agents?

Diverb
04-08-2019, 02:37 PM
DustoffVT,

Thanks for the info. Can you share what FLETC is like for AIA trianing? Basic daily schedule, how intense is the physical training and do AIA's have to do the room searches and other training that would be more intense for ground agents?

The academy is 15 wks long, with 4 additional weeks for spanish. Its a mon-fri 8-4:30 schedule. It's somewhat of a gentelmens course, however you will do everything the boat guys and backseaters do. Not alot of running other than the 2 FLETC required 1.5 mile runs. You will spend alot of time in the mat room learning arrest procedures and searching people. Also lots of ground defensive fighting skills.

Class room instruction will focus on criminal law, immigration law, and policy. Firearms trainging is fun, you get a few days of driving, and there is a bunch of scenerio based training. You will not touch a aircraft for the entire time you are there. Personally I thought the Academy was rather easy since I'd already been through a state police academy the border patrol Academy, and criminal investigations training program and then.

AMO realizes that they are typically hiring older people and we are hiring you for the skill set that you come with they are not there to try to hurt you or get you hurt.

Best advice I can give you is just go along to get along play the game and you'll do just fine

Bandit612
04-08-2019, 04:58 PM
[QUOTE=aeroengineer;2797881]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit612 View Post
Has anyone been successful into getting into AMO while retired over the grade of O-4? Recruiters are saying not possible without disability points for veterans preference due to being (way) over 40.

If you are a retired 0-4 or above, you must have a disability letter from the VA, of 0% or more, in order to get the age waiver. In 1978, the Civil Service Reform Act amended the employment preference for retired officers by denying it to those retiring at the rank of major (O-4) and above.


**Many thanks to Aeroengineer and Shifty101...now it's hurry up and wait for the VA to get through the 4 month process of confirming I can't hear anything anymore...

Shifty101
04-08-2019, 06:14 PM
DustoffVT,

Thanks for the info. Can you share what FLETC is like for AIA trianing? Basic daily schedule, how intense is the physical training and do AIA's have to do the room searches and other training that would be more intense for ground agents?

I am surprised you are applying on USAjobs when there are so many resources to apply directly to the agency. CBP AMO has direct hire authority. I recommend you reach out on the APC link below and click on the "contact us here" link. That said, if you made it this far in the forum and you still want to apply, click below.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/law-enforcement/u_s_customs_and_border_protection_air_and_marine_o perations

grumpydwarf
04-08-2019, 08:32 PM
I am surprised you are applying on USAjobs when there are so many resources to apply directly to the agency. CBP AMO has direct hire authority. I recommend you reach out on the APC link below and click on the "contact us here" link. That said, if you made it this far in the forum and you still want to apply, click below.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/law-enforcement/u_s_customs_and_border_protection_air_and_marine_o perations

I didn't realize there were other ways to apply. I already submitted my app through USAJOBS, so I'll wait that one out. Do you happen to know which veterans can have the poly waived?

Shifty101
04-08-2019, 09:04 PM
I didn't realize there were other ways to apply. I already submitted my app through USAJOBS, so I'll wait that one out. Do you happen to know which veterans can have the poly waived?

Grumpy, dont make this process any harder on yourself. When you get recommendations on here, you should probably take it as free advice. That said, do not go through usajobs its a broke system, which is why AMO has direct hire authority.

You may qualify for a poly waiver if you have an active Top Secret with a SCI (read on or not read on) but you cannot have received that TS on a waiver. One common waiver is a financial waiver.

again, usajobs is a broke system the has failed many agencies. Stop making things harder and reach out directly, again, free advice...

grumpydwarf
04-09-2019, 07:12 AM
Grumpy, dont make this process any harder on yourself. When you get recommendations on here, you should probably take it as free advice. That said, do not go through usajobs its a broke system, which is why AMO has direct hire authority.

You may qualify for a poly waiver if you have an active Top Secret with a SCI (read on or not read on) but you cannot have received that TS on a waiver. One common waiver is a financial waiver.

again, usajobs is a broke system the has failed many agencies. Stop making things harder and reach out directly, again, free advice...


Thanks for the advice. USAJOBS definitely is a broken system.

Brown Shugaaa
04-22-2019, 04:59 AM
I know this has been asked a few times over the last 18 pages, but only halfway answered once. Are there any relatively new hires that have been stationed in Puerto Rico that could comment on the living conditions.
Do our kids have access to the DoD school that is there?
Is it a safe environment for a family, crime wise?
Are there realistically any nice places to live? Most of the neighborhoods look pretty junky.

I've been to San Juan a few times, working narcotics with the USCG, but that was 12 years ago.


Also, on a semi different topic... Are there any requirements for how far away I live from work (anywhere, not just in Puerto Rico)? Lets say I lived in the USVIs, could I fly my own C172 into work (~ 1 hour flight). Same if I worked in Miami but lived in the FL keys. Is flying into work in a personal plane realistic at all?

Any feedback is appreciated!

outcast27pa
04-22-2019, 10:10 PM
I am also looking at Puerto Rico as a helo pilot. Can anyone provide work conditions and tax issue information? Thanks.

Shifty101
04-23-2019, 01:56 PM
I know this has been asked a few times over the last 18 pages, but only halfway answered once. Are there any relatively new hires that have been stationed in Puerto Rico that could comment on the living conditions.
Do our kids have access to the DoD school that is there?
Is it a safe environment for a family, crime wise?
Are there realistically any nice places to live? Most of the neighborhoods look pretty junky.

I've been to San Juan a few times, working narcotics with the USCG, but that was 12 years ago.


Also, on a semi different topic... Are there any requirements for how far away I live from work (anywhere, not just in Puerto Rico)? Lets say I lived in the USVIs, could I fly my own C172 into work (~ 1 hour flight). Same if I worked in Miami but lived in the FL keys. Is flying into work in a personal plane realistic at all?

Any feedback is appreciated!

I actually LOL on this...how is relying a Cessna 172 to fly to work everyday realistic. I get it, you're thinking living the big life in the islands but common man, lets get back to reality. You are required to work 8 hour days, with an additional 2 hours available (LEAP) 5 days a week. Not to throw spears, but I also question your decision making if you are really thinking of flying a single piston engine over the ocean for 2 hours a day...every day...

That said, focus on the west side of the island. It is not a glorious location, which is why it remains a new hire location, and also remains the top location for AIA's to transfer out of. Put it this way, I have been with the agency 6 years, I am in a top location, and I have a start date with the airlines.

Best of luck!

RCpilot2018
04-23-2019, 02:07 PM
What is a "Top Location?"

DustoffVT
04-23-2019, 04:50 PM
What is a "Top Location?"

Pretty much by definition, itís anywhere but PR, Laredo, NASO, Alpine or McAwesome.

Also can be defined as any branch/unit likely to lose slots in coming years.

BAJ135
04-23-2019, 06:28 PM
What is a "Top Location?"

Well that’s subjective but I think I would also add Del Rio, El Paso, Tucson, and Buffalo to DustoffVT’s list.

Top Location can also be summed up as any location that would require the same amount of luck to get to as picking the winning powerball numbers. Good luck you’ll need it.

Jim4sparks
04-24-2019, 07:54 AM
Thanks for the advice. USAJOBS definitely is a broken system. I started the Fast Start Program at the end of January and got a formal offer after completing everything including working through a hearing loss issue, at the end of March. I was told the normal process takes about 8-9 months but with the Fast Start Program they try to get you through within 90 days. You have to stay engaged in the process and my recruiter asked me to call him at least once a week. That is probably the best advice. They are working with many applicants and you need to stay on top of your own application. The online system still shows I'm waiting on several things, but I am reporting for duty on April 29th and start FLETC on May 6th.

Shifty101
04-24-2019, 08:01 AM
Well thatís subjective but I think I would also add Del Rio, El Paso, Tucson, and Buffalo to DustoffVTís list.

Top Location can also be summed up as any location that would require the same amount of luck to get to as picking the winning powerball numbers. Good luck youíll need it.

You needed "luck" when HQ was still "realigning the northern border" from 2010 to 2016 and forcing guys to take "prime locations" else where, causing the "flow" from the stated above locations.

Anymore, you can pretty much go anywhere, as every Director is facing shortages due to attrition rates (retirements), but mostly high turnover rates due to pilots leaving AMO for the Airlines or other private sector jobs.

If any of you are interested in the difference between attrition and turn over, and you should be, check out the link below.

https://business.dailypay.com/blog/employee-turnover-vs-attrition

BAJ135
04-24-2019, 08:50 AM
Anymore, you can pretty much go anywhere, as every Director is facing shortages due to attrition rates (retirements), but mostly high turnover rates due to pilots leaving AMO for the Airlines or other private sector jobs.https://business.dailypay.com/blog/employee-turnover-vs-attrition

I could be wrong but I find that statement to be highly unlikely. Perhaps itís easier now to move than it has been in the past but good luck getting to a highly sought after location. Easy to be accepted at a new location, not so easy being released by your current location since you already said everyplace is understaffed. No director will release you without a backfill. The crap locations have always gotten priority when it comes to staffing and Iím sure that hasnít changed.

Iíve also heard a rumor that PCS moves are off the table and the best you can hope for is a VRP move. I bailed for a major airline about a year ago so maybe someone still sailing on the titanic can confirm that.

Shifty101
04-24-2019, 10:31 AM
I could be wrong but I find that statement to be highly unlikely. Perhaps itís easier now to move than it has been in the past but good luck getting to a highly sought after location. Easy to be accepted at a new location, not so easy being released by your current location since you already said everyplace is understaffed. No director will release you without a backfill. The crap locations have always gotten priority when it comes to staffing and Iím sure that hasnít changed.

Iíve also heard a rumor that PCS moves are off the table and the best you can hope for is a VRP move. I bailed for a major airline about a year ago so maybe someone still sailing on the titanic can confirm that.

Well I can assure you, what you have heard is rumor and most of what you are claiming is not accurate, more speculation. This is just bad information that you claiming.

PCS moves from the SWR are currently off the table, but you can transfer within. There were several AIA lateral announcements in 2018, one announcement had 24 of the 35 air locations and that other had like 28. The new announcements, which was just out, had full paid moves for GS11-13 with no minimum time (3 years). They did this because no one was putting in to transfer to the El Paso's, Tucson, Alpine, San Angelo's etc. Long story short, every director is short on pilots. I know of 3 pilots in the last 1 month to resign from 1 branch to go to regionals or cargo, for the long-term goal of getting on with a legacy carrier.

Also PR is getting priority in their PCS. This means they can trump anyone in the SWR for locations. Did you also hear they opened up P3 branches in Corpus and JAX to try and luehr in pilots with heavy fixed wing time? Well they did.

BAJ135
04-24-2019, 11:22 AM
Well I can assure you, what you have heard is rumor and most of what you are claiming is not accurate, more speculation. This is just bad information that you claiming.

PCS moves from the SWR are currently off the table, but you can transfer within. There were several AIA lateral announcements in 2018, one announcement had 24 of the 35 air locations and that other had like 28. The new announcements, which was just out, had full paid moves for GS11-13 with no minimum time (3 years). They did this because no one was putting in to transfer to the El Paso's, Tucson, Alpine, San Angelo's etc. Long story short, every director is short on pilots. I know of 3 pilots in the last 1 month to resign from 1 branch to go to regionals or cargo, for the long-term goal of getting on with a legacy carrier.

Also PR is getting priority in their PCS. This means they can trump anyone in the SWR for locations. Did you also hear they opened up P3 branches in Corpus and JAX to try and luehr in pilots with heavy fixed wing time? Well they did.

Please I assure you that everything I say is accurate. You sound just like a recruiter. Are you? I lived through this nonsense for 11 years as did many of the others who post on here to put out accurate information for new hires. Not some made up nonsense to sucker them in. Tell them the truth and let them make up their own minds.

Moves from the SWR are currently off the table? As it has been for a decade. Hired into some horrible location on the southwest border only to be told you can move yourself to some other horrible location on the southwest border but no where else. Meanwhile people who have never been to the southwest border can move two or three times because they arenít limited/punished by such a nonsense rule.

As far as listing locations on an announcement...means absolutely nothing when you are hired into the southwest region and you are restricted from leaving. One of the many flaws in this agencies thinking that caused the mass exodus to the airlines.

Without having seen the announcement Iíll bet you that eliminating the 3 year minimum time before being eligible to transfer was limited to just the locations you mentioned. Which will do nothing to fill them because no one wants to live there. Realistically you are looking at twice that time frame to transfer. Something you donít want new hires to know.

PR has PCS moves because the agency was sued and lost. You can quit the agency and they have to pay your move back to the states. They canít leave you stranded in PR which had previously been done. Thank you to the person who took the time to set the agency straight by filing the lawsuit. Listing PCS moves in the announcement also means nothing for anyone but PR. They are very limited depending on funding and must be approved if they are even still available. Which I doubt because my sources are pretty reliable.

No clue what you are talking about with the P3s. They are legacy customs branches that have been around longer than AMO or OAM or whatever it is the agency calls itself now a days.

Now letís get back to focusing on the important things. Itís about time for a new name change so we can get new creds, badges, and uniforms!

RCpilot2018
04-24-2019, 05:06 PM
On the latest announcement conus moves are VRP period. PR has PCS available to them. The AC has visibility on every single move. Wouldn't you think he'd have more important things to worry about? We've been short pilots for years. When we can't fly 95,000hrs/yr, we magically have "Fast Track Hiring." AMO apparently has now its own polygrapher.
Maybe we should have done this years ago? This pilot shortage is done on purpose. The AC loves to "Redline" every office. It's his MO.

Say it isn't so!

WacoQCF
04-25-2019, 10:15 AM
OAM was ďthe jobĒ to get 10-20 years ago. I was thrilled to get it, and have now fairly recently left for much happier locations and flying.

Prospective recruits, a key factor to ask your recruiters is ďare you a Pilot or an Enforcement Agent?Ē The overwhelming majority of the Pilot recruiters do not have a pilots license.

Most recruiters are ďcompany menĒ who would do anything/say anything to get you in the door...unusually so that they can get the transfer or other duty assignment that they need to escape their most desired (sarcasm) border town location.

The posts by experienced OAM pilots are true, accurate, and should be a warning to you all against this move in your aviation careers. If you desire a mostly non-flying job, in a undesirable border town, working for detached managers (not leaders & donít fly with you), for less pay than most flying jobs ...well then I will not attempt to stop you.

The aircraft you will fly: C206, King Air, Helicopters will all leave you as undesirable to even regional airlines. Flying the P3 is not yet attainable (almost exclusively former Navy qualified P3 pilots with multiple tours), and the DHC8 has been planned for being scrapped. Even then, both of them donít translate well to more than a regional airline.

Letís see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you canít be unavailable.

So much of this OAM job currently blows, and the leadership is either uninterested or incompetent to react to organizational change. I predict OAM flying will dissolve in the next 5 years.

Commuting to work: NO!
Flying a 172 to work: NO! Not going to work for you...mess that up one time. There are two private airports in the Keys (Sugarloaf and Tavernaero) - you cant afford the others. Then Key West. Anyway...Iíve even tried to fly into Homestead, and the base has a firm no for you because you work on that base. OPS isnít commuter friendly. So, yeah you can fly into Homestead General which is a 40 minute drive away. You would be better off driving in from the keys. If you attempt to drive in from Broward County (North of Miami), anticipate 2.5+ hour commute added to a 10+ hour day, weekends can be even worse. Miami Branch is located in Homestead and is now the Branch known for the worst morale and retention of all branches except PR. I know people in Miami, they would be happy to warn you.

WacoQCF
04-25-2019, 10:36 AM
CBPís top Pilot recruiter just quit to take an airline job at Kalitta.

Recruits: Please contact me with the name of your recruiter and I can tell you if he is a boat driver, supervisor, or an aircraft sensor operator. You deserve to be provided accurate information.

BAJ135
04-25-2019, 10:44 AM
Well I can assure you, what you have heard is rumor and most of what you are claiming is not accurate

Not accurate?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8hcfTFVJ9k

RCpilot2018
04-25-2019, 03:55 PM
Rumor alert!!!

Apparently the SSR is hitting our paychecks 5/12!

I'll believe it when I see it.

USMCFLYR
04-25-2019, 04:49 PM
King Air time leaves you undesirable for even Regionals?

Surely you mean if that is all you have maybe, but plenty of our guys and the ISR companies arenít having any trouble going to straight to the majors, or in the case of a few with the biggest thing they have flown is a King Air; to the Regional!

Hell....even one of our DISPATCHERS with only the minimum piston twin time just got picked up :-)))

RCpilot2018
04-25-2019, 06:59 PM
Flying the P3 is not yet attainable (almost exclusively former Navy qualified P3 pilots with multiple tours), [/QUOTE]

Completely untrue here. There have been about a dozen folks within AMO transfer to Jax and CRP that are now flying the line and not prior Navy. I encourage all to apply that have some significant fixed wing time and a good attitude for learning. WE NEED PILOTS THAT WANT TO FLY THE P3!

The DHC8 has been planned for being scrapped. Even then, both of them donít translate well to more than a regional airline.
[/QUOTE]

Really? You can't be serious!

WacoQCF
04-26-2019, 12:11 AM
Flying the P3 is not yet attainable (almost exclusively former Navy qualified P3 pilots with multiple tours),

Completely untrue here. There have been about a dozen folks within AMO transfer to Jax and CRP that are now flying the line and not prior Navy. I encourage all to apply that have some significant fixed wing time and a good attitude for learning. WE NEED PILOTS THAT WANT TO FLY THE P3!

The DHC8 has been planned for being scrapped. Even then, both of them don’t translate well to more than a regional airline.
[/QUOTE]

Really? You can't be serious![/QUOTE]


Part 91 King Air and DHC8 Pilots are minimally qualified applicants to the “majors”, usually offset by their military experience. A straight off the street King Air or DHC8 candidate will be right on the level of the CFI with wet ATP. Not being in the 121 world will be a setback

Setting those arguments aside - are you also going to defend the morale and quality of life aspects? How about time off and 12 year pay scales?

So, please provide us your demographics; are you a P3 Pilot or a AEA/AEO?

My strong recommendation is to avoid the smoking turd that is OAM. Of those I know who have gone to airlines, not one has seen it as anything close to a mistake.

RCpilot2018
04-26-2019, 05:09 AM
[/I]

Completely untrue here. There have been about a dozen folks within AMO transfer to Jax and CRP that are now flying the line and not prior Navy. I encourage all to apply that have some significant fixed wing time and a good attitude for learning. WE NEED PILOTS THAT WANT TO FLY THE P3!

The DHC8 has been planned for being scrapped. Even then, both of them donít translate well to more than a regional airline.


Really? You can't be serious![/QUOTE]


Part 91 King Air and DHC8 Pilots are minimally qualified applicants to the ďmajorsĒ, usually offset by their military experience. A straight off the street King Air or DHC8 candidate will be right on the level of the CFI with wet ATP. Not being in the 121 world will be a setback

Setting those arguments aside - are you also going to defend the morale and quality of life aspects? How about time off and 12 year pay scales?

So, please provide us your demographics; are you a P3 Pilot or a AEA/AEO?

My strong recommendation is to avoid the smoking turd that is OAM. Of those I know who have gone to airlines, not one has seen it as anything close to a mistake.[/QUOTE]

Waco,

Check your PM's

dbflyer
04-26-2019, 07:30 AM
I know two pt91, civil only, king air guys who went to Alaska airlines in the last year, and I don't even know that many people. Both were 2500-3000hr TT. So I'd say any turbo-prop PIC time is helpful at this point.

outcast27pa
04-27-2019, 06:24 AM
What makes PR such a bad place to be stationed? The flying, the area, the facilities, the supervisors...? I'm thinking about PR and I would like to have a realistic picture before making a decision. Thanks.

emersonbiguns
04-28-2019, 08:39 AM
What makes PR such a bad place to be stationed? The flying, the area, the facilities, the supervisors...?


No, yes, no, yes.






I'm thinking about PR...


Don't.

hindsight2020
04-28-2019, 01:28 PM
No, yes, no, yes.









Don't.

What's your problem with "the area"? That it's not transplant-hell suburban anywhere USA? "Shirley" that was apparent to you before you applied for the position.....:rolleyes:

RCpilot2018
04-28-2019, 04:56 PM
Don't call me "Shirley."

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
I'm sure several on this board are too young to recall the movie.

Diverb
04-28-2019, 04:59 PM
Don't call me "Shirley."

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
I'm sure several on this board are too young to recall the movie.

Roger, Roger, what's your vector Victor

tonsterboy5
04-29-2019, 09:29 PM
How are airframes picked? I see that CBP has a wide variety of planes and a few drones. I think the work would be interesting but I donít want to fly a drone. (I have thousands of hours of military drone time and instructor qualified) I left the drone world to fly regular planes and if there is a chance they would assign this I donít even want to apply.

BAJ135
04-30-2019, 11:27 AM
How are airframes picked? I see that CBP has a wide variety of planes and a few drones. I think the work would be interesting but I donít want to fly a drone. (I have thousands of hours of military drone time and instructor qualified) I left the drone world to fly regular planes and if there is a chance they would assign this I donít even want to apply.

If the location youíre hired into has it you will fly it. Usually the agency picks the aircraft you are least qualified to fly and assigns it to you. However with everyone running the other way, and your background in it, it would be difficult to get away from it. The only way to know for sure would be to apply and see what they offer you.

grumpydwarf
05-01-2019, 07:39 AM
OP Quote: "Let’s see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you can’t be unavailable."


I drank the same Koolaid. Of those 13+ days off per month, plan on spending your day off commuting home and a day off commuting back to work. Then there are the times where you are involuntarily extended and lets not forget the winter cancellations and you are stuck in your base. Those 13+ days quickly dwindle down to 4 days, but at least its not all the time. There is no consistency and your body pays the price for that. Many rotor transition guys figured this out pretty quick and bailed. If you live in base, that takes some of the pain away, but it's still pain. I'll take an underpaid government job any day over flying for a regional.

BeatNavy
05-01-2019, 08:07 AM
OP Quote: "Letís see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you canít be unavailable."


I drank the same Koolaid. Of those 13+ days off per month, plan on spending your day off commuting home and a day off commuting back to work. Then there are the times where you are involuntarily extended and lets not forget the winter cancellations and you are stuck in your base. Those 13+ days quickly dwindle down to 4 days, but at least its not all the time. There is no consistency and your body pays the price for that. Many rotor transition guys figured this out pretty quick and bailed. If you live in base, that takes some of the pain away, but it's still pain. I'll take an underpaid government job any day over flying for a regional.

I'm not sure where in the thread you quoted that from, but I feel your assessment of the airlines is pretty off base and misleading. First, regionals are temporary...you say you'll take an underpaid government job any day over a regional, but would you take an underpaid government job over flying for a major? You're comparing the worst pay/schedules in an airline career to a government job where your pay and schedules won't get that much better over time...kind of apples and oranges. The majority of my 30+ year airline career, I will have had 15-19 days off (kind of my choice on how much I want to work). At my regional I got 11-14 days off, but did a lot of day trips and spent a lot of work nights in my own bed. At my major I commute to, I spend a lot of long overnights at home, some 24 hours, so I am "home" on a work day. You probably get more nights in your own bed in your job, but I'd venture to say airline guys get more time off, more awake time at home with their family, and overall have a much better schedule and QOL.

Second, since when does commuting take all day on an off day? Most places have commutable trips, available to most seniorities at least on one side of the pairing (if not both), so commuting occurs on a work day most of the time. And even if it is the next morning, you get home and still have most of the day at home. And in the rare event you get extended to a day off, you get paid...a lot. And depending on the company you work for, after being extended you then have to work less if you drop a trip or a reserve day for the same compensation since you likely just got 150-200% for the extended day.

Commuting to reserve at a regional (or most any airline) sucks. Don't get me wrong. And the airlines are a cyclical industry. But if the government doubled your pay tomorrow and begged me to come do that job, I still wouldn't do it. Guess I'm glad someone's willing to, though.

rickair7777
05-01-2019, 09:11 AM
OP Quote: "Letís see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you canít be unavailable."


I drank the same Koolaid. Of those 13+ days off per month, plan on spending your day off commuting home and a day off commuting back to work. Then there are the times where you are involuntarily extended and lets not forget the winter cancellations and you are stuck in your base. Those 13+ days quickly dwindle down to 4 days, but at least its not all the time. There is no consistency and your body pays the price for that. Many rotor transition guys figured this out pretty quick and bailed. If you live in base, that takes some of the pain away, but it's still pain. I'll take an underpaid government job any day over flying for a regional.

Not really typical of the industry long-term. Or even mid-term.

More typical is 18 days off, with mostly commutable trips, ie commute on first and last days of trip, not on days off.

Getting involuntarily extended is theoretically possible at some, not all, airlines. I'm getting close to 20 years in industry and have never been extended. And that includes a fair bit of reserve.

Junior reserve at regional will suck if you commute.

60av8tor
05-01-2019, 09:34 AM
OP Quote: "Let’s see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you can’t be unavailable."


I drank the same Koolaid. Of those 13+ days off per month, plan on spending your day off commuting home and a day off commuting back to work. Then there are the times where you are involuntarily extended and lets not forget the winter cancellations and you are stuck in your base. Those 13+ days quickly dwindle down to 4 days, but at least its not all the time. There is no consistency and your body pays the price for that. Many rotor transition guys figured this out pretty quick and bailed. If you live in base, that takes some of the pain away, but it's still pain. I'll take an underpaid government job any day over flying for a regional.

I’m seeing a trend in the last few responses to this and I agree. Everyone has to choose their path and what works best for family, but this reads of someone going into things fairly blind and with unrealistic expectations. You can definitely minimize some of the suck of the regionals to eventually get your nicer LCC/legacy job. In rotor speak - gotta be a WOJG fridge bit$h before you can be the W4/5 walking around with the CO offering good advice. Glad things are working better for you.

USMCFLYR
05-01-2019, 10:06 AM
...but would you take an underpaid government job over flying for a major? You're comparing the worst pay/schedules in an airline career to a government job where your pay and schedules won't get that much better over time....
Yes..... :D

BeatNavy
05-01-2019, 10:54 AM
Yes..... :D

Well, you also decided to join the department of the navy, so the judgment is already in question. At least you joined the menís department though ;)

All joking aside, I got tired of living out of a suitcase and was happy to get back in the military and take a break from the airline grind. Every job has its pros/cons, and airline life can be as frustrating as any other job. Everyoneís situation is different, and luckily there are different flying jobs for everyoneís preference and family situation. But every time Iím dealing with government BS, I remember why I quit the first time.

The pension, healthcare, and security sure is nice though.

USMCFLYR
05-01-2019, 12:03 PM
Well, you also decided to join the department of the navy, so the judgment is already in question. At least you joined the menís department though ;)

All joking aside, I got tired of living out of a suitcase and was happy to get back in the military and take a break from the airline grind. Every job has its pros/cons, and airline life can be as frustrating as any other job. Everyoneís situation is different, and luckily there are different flying jobs for everyoneís preference and family situation. But every time Iím dealing with government BS, I remember why I quit the first time.

The pension, healthcare, and security sure is nice though.

Concur 100% BN! :D

BAJ135
05-01-2019, 12:07 PM
OP Quote: "Letís see, work all month 5 on / 2 off for a max of 8 days off each month? Airlines guarantee 13+ days off each month. OAM is going to making you do LEAP standby on your days off (illegal) and then you canít be unavailable."


I drank the same Koolaid. Of those 13+ days off per month, plan on spending your day off commuting home and a day off commuting back to work. Then there are the times where you are involuntarily extended and lets not forget the winter cancellations and you are stuck in your base. Those 13+ days quickly dwindle down to 4 days, but at least its not all the time. There is no consistency and your body pays the price for that. Many rotor transition guys figured this out pretty quick and bailed. If you live in base, that takes some of the pain away, but it's still pain. I'll take an underpaid government job any day over flying for a regional.

Someone didnít do their homework and apparently failed bidding 101. Not sure how you would end up with a schedule where every single one of your commutes is on your days off. I typically have 16-18 days off a month and hardly ever commute on my day off. This month I have 21 days off.

I have found that the airlines are not a fit for me and I am going to go back to flying helicopters. Has anyone considered the same? If you have any info on who is hiring (non-CFI work), please post the information in this forum.

Thanks.

Not sure if youíve even been hired as an AIA but if you have please come back in a couple years and let us all know how great it is. Enjoy that unpaid move to your first duty location where youíll have 8 days off a month. At least you wonít have to commute!

BTW since you like kool-aid perhaps you can volunteer to be a recruiter. You already know how to twist the facts.

Brown Shugaaa
05-02-2019, 09:31 AM
Do I have to get pepper sprayed again at the academy? Looks like pilots don't carry spray regularly. If so, anyone heard of medical waivers for corrective eye surgery guys?

I see there is a 1.5 mile run at the academy, which is fine I guess...if you like running... Are there annual, or some sort of recurring PT standards that I will have to conduct throughout my career as an AIA? In other words, when I'm pushing my late 50s towards the end of my career, do they still expect my old ass to be conducting running tests?

Thanks in advance!

WacoQCF
05-02-2019, 07:50 PM
They are quoting me about the MAXIMUM 8 days off per month at CBP. From time to time we were put in Standby or forced to work our LEAP period. It is happening in Miami again.

I personally work 17 days on, 15 off and have never been extended. Between several ďguaranteed days offĒ and absolutely justifiable fatigue calls, extensions really are voluntary.

As far as comparing time off from CBP to my airline:
I just completed a month where I worked 4 days for training only and then spent the rest of the month of April OFF. Look forward to June where I have qualified to take the entire month off....but wait ....there is more! After taking off nearly all of May, all of June, I believe with careful bidding I may work (I said WORK) 8 days of July, maybe less. I know 60 days in advance what my work days are, and I have nearly 100% control of when I am off.

The CBP Supervisors own you:
Did you know about the 4 month unaccompanied training you go to? Did you know about the fact that you sign an involuntary transfer ďmobility agreementĒ to any station in the agency? Did you know that if they force move you, CBP Pilots are not in the Federal Agency home buy out program?

Supervisors:
In the government the slogan ďf up to move upĒ applies. I know of ONE good Supervisor who is vocal about only surviving his last two years, because he canít afford to quit.

Work Schedules:
At one point recently we worked rotating day/night shifts between each week (with only 2 days off to acclimate). We routinely had less than 4 days notice to know on Wednesday if we were working on Sunday (canít plan or have a life), and had so many pay and work rules violations that nearly every ďlineĒ pilot in the entire branch had filed grievances with OPR or ďinternal affairsĒ. OPR set up interviews in our branch for two weeks due to the number of interviews and violations. I could go on...but I donít trust you will get the point.

We even had a shiny new hire who came in as his Supervisorís yes-man. No really, anything it takes kind of guy...it was inspiring. In less than two years he was jaded, quit, and went to the job he swore he had ZERO interest in - airline pilot. Another former USCG guy came in with the same positive ďIím gonna change this place because I am a leaderĒ attitude, maybe 3 years he was frustrated and at another airline. Even the head CBP Pilot recruiter just left for Kalitta. Itís what the FBI calls a ďclueĒ.

Others took on ďActing SupervisorĒ roles (glorified hall monitors with a discipline quota). It should have given them a great shot at promotion to Supervisor. EVERY one of them was bypassed for promotion, and EVERY one of them quit or transferred in frustration.

But fine - tell me I donít know what airline or CBP flying is like. Youíll be a CBP Supervisor in no time. Heck Iíll write you a recommendation. PR or MIA would be great for you. 🤣.

WacoQCF
05-02-2019, 08:22 PM
Do I have to get pepper sprayed again at the academy? Looks like pilots don't carry spray regularly. If so, anyone heard of medical waivers for corrective eye surgery guys?

I see there is a 1.5 mile run at the academy, which is fine I guess...if you like running... Are there annual, or some sort of recurring PT standards that I will have to conduct throughout my career as an AIA? In other words, when I'm pushing my late 50s towards the end of my career, do they still expect my old ass to be conducting running tests?

Thanks in advance!

Yes, you will have to take the spray. I donít know of anyone who got a medical waiver.

No PT Standards, they have tried several times to drop one on the Pilots. Half would die, for sure. They donít make the recruiting posters. We had a Supervisor so large he couldnít fit in the DHC8 cockpit much less a King Air or any helicopter.

The message is, CBP can drop new requirements - and has frequently in the past years such as PASS / STAT / STAR / STAR Recurrent / Spanish Academy / ETC that were not requirements when I was hired. Itís just one decision away from doing PT Tests.

At age 50, range qualifications in any of our ďgarden spotĒ border locations (full body armor), all damn day on the range might kill you anyway. Iíve done it in hip high snow and suffocating humidity. Every Supervisor went to just one gun for qualification - while ďlineĒ Pilots had to qualify as Tactical Team Members requiring a 2,3,or 4 gun qualification. Oh, then after ďqualsĒ some Ďmoto dudeí fresh back from Firearms School will extend your day another 2 hours for made up tactical training that makes the Army look smart.

RCpilot2018
05-03-2019, 02:02 PM
Waco,

Check pm's

WacoQCF
05-04-2019, 06:33 AM
Waco,

Check pm's

Send me a PM then...but it would be more entertaining in the public forum. 😬

BAJ135
05-04-2019, 08:26 AM
Send me a PM then...but it would be more entertaining in the public forum. 😬

Thatís the truth.

Choppersnplanes
05-08-2019, 04:04 AM
Waco... Iím just curious, can you tell us who you currently work for, to have 17on-15off?

Also, how does that schedule work with the wife and kids?

rickair7777
05-08-2019, 10:15 AM
Waco... I’m just curious, can you tell us who you currently work for, to have 17on-15off?

Also, how does that schedule work with the wife and kids?

Almost any airline, especially majors, with a little seniority. Reserve is usually 12-13 hard days off (15 at SWA).

You have to be more senior to get all weekends off. If you're junior you'll probably get one a month on average.

The spouse does need some degree of independence, but I assume we're all (ex) mil here so that should be nothing new.

When you're home, you're home. Plenty of time with the fam, I'm home on weekdays a lot so I volunteer at my kid's school so I get to hang out with them.

kaputt
05-08-2019, 08:20 PM
Reading back through old CPB threads it seems the hiring mins at one point were 750TT.

Was that accurate, or was it like it is today where you could apply at 750 but had to get to at least 1000 before taking the flight assessment?

BAJ135
05-09-2019, 01:32 PM
Reading back through old CPB threads it seems the hiring mins at one point were 750TT.

Was that accurate, or was it like it is today where you could apply at 750 but had to get to at least 1000 before taking the flight assessment?

Not sure why this matters, as itís not the current requirement, but to answer your question there were waivers in the past for a very specific type of flight time that was waiverable down to 750TT. The requirements have changed numerous times over the years. CBP is as desperate as theyíve ever been so if you want the job now is the time to get your app in. As you walk in the front door pay no mind to all the people who trample you running the other way.

BAJ135
05-09-2019, 01:36 PM
Waco... Iím just curious, can you tell us who you currently work for, to have 17on-15off?

Also, how does that schedule work with the wife and kids?

Sounds like an ACMI schedule to me. Only you can answer the second question. Everyoneís family situation is unique.

rickair7777
05-09-2019, 04:07 PM
Almost any airline, especially majors, with a little seniority. Reserve is usually 12-13 hard days off (15 at SWA).

You have to be more senior to get all weekends off. If you're junior you'll probably get one a month on average.

The spouse does need some degree of independence, but I assume we're all (ex) mil here so that should be nothing new.

When you're home, you're home. Plenty of time with the fam, I'm home on weekdays a lot so I volunteer at my kid's school so I get to hang out with them.

Correction, reading comprehension failure on my part. I thought he said 17-15 days off.

For 17 on / 15 off, ACMI is probably the only way to get that reliably.

Diverb
05-10-2019, 02:56 AM
Reading back through old CPB threads it seems the hiring mins at one point were 750TT.

Was that accurate, or was it like it is today where you could apply at 750 but had to get to at least 1000 before taking the flight assessment?

Yes you can apply at 750tt but you will need to be at 1000tt for the written/oral/check ride. It all depends on what your flying experience is and how much of the 500hr can be waived.

Example: I know a guy who only has single engine Cessna/piper, and AMO required him the full 1500.

Another guy had 1050 of both rotor & fixedwing with some multi and overwater experience and AMO waived him to 1100

Only way to find out is to apply, on and tell them you wanna fly the UAS and UAS is the waive of the future and your in!

BAJ135
05-10-2019, 07:15 PM
Yes you can apply at 750tt but you will need to be at 1000tt for the written/oral/check ride.

Whatís this written you speak of?

RCpilot2018
05-11-2019, 05:30 PM
35% cola and 10% UAS bonus... WOOHOO!!
I'll take that extra 30K! I'm starting to like this pilot shortage stuff.

WacoQCF
05-11-2019, 09:39 PM
Whatís this written you speak of?

CBP wants to ensure you can read and write...because you have proven that you are blind to the facts. 🤪

The bonus will only serve to keep those already dead set on staying (those too close to retirement).

That new bonus would have retained a lot of people 5 years ago when we were telling Eddie Young and ďTexĒ Alles of a significant Pilot recruitment problem years ago. At the present, compare it to JetBlue or American and both will be making double that $$$ by the 12 year mark.

Time off? Nope not even close.

DustoffVT
05-12-2019, 03:01 AM
35% cola and 10% UAS bonus... WOOHOO!!
I'll take that extra 30K! I'm starting to like this pilot shortage stuff.

Iím hoping this is in jest. All pay caps still apply.

BAJ135
05-12-2019, 03:59 AM
Iím hoping this is in jest. All pay caps still apply.


He got his that's all that matters! Why worry about those who got little to nothing? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't worry about capping out since the pay raises need to be renewed each year. Someone sitting somewhere will fail to perform and it will be gone before you know it. Oops we forgot to renew it, sorry guys/gals. If it isn't this October 1st it will likely be next October 1st.

USMCFLYR
05-12-2019, 05:20 AM
CBP wants to ensure you can read and write...because you have proven that you are blind to the facts. 🤪

The bonus will only serve to keep those already dead set on staying (those too close to retirement).

That new bonus would have retained a lot of people 5 years ago when we were telling Eddie Young and ďTexĒ Alles of a significant Pilot recruitment problem years ago. At the present, compare it to JetBlue or American and both will be making double that $$$ by the 12 year mark.

Time off? Nope not even close.
If these are the 'Special Pay Rates' you are speaking about - they are not incentives to stay necessarily - no more than the military bonuses were. As you say - you'll still make more in the airlines if that is the type of flying/job that you want to do; but to those who are close to retirement or don't want to work in the airlines it is a nice 'thanks for not leaving' pay increase.

DustoffVT
05-12-2019, 07:02 AM
If these are the 'Special Pay Rates' you are speaking about - they are not incentives to stay necessarily - no more than the military bonuses were. As you say - you'll still make more in the airlines if that is the type of flying/job that you want to do; but to those who are close to retirement or don't want to work in the airlines it is a nice 'thanks for not leaving' pay increase.




Pretty much. Full disclosure: I am a northern region dude staying for 20 barring extreme duress (i.e. unit closure, forced drone flying).



That said, a couple points in defense of AMO and the SSR here. I have been personally, first-hand told by EY that the SSR is programmed already for outlying years. This actually makes sense. Remember AMO is late to the SSR for pilots, non-LEO aviators at many other agencies have been getting it since January. Rarely in the federal gov't is such a standard reduced once set (USMC, curious if you are getting it).



Also, there are a couple of advantages to this raise many have not thought of. The SSR is a locality pay, not a bonus. So it counts toward your pension. With caps, that essentially means that a career line pilot will earn a director's pension. Only has to last for 3 years to achieve that. Also, the increase will be reflected in your TSP matching funds and agency automatic. This will make a BIG difference over time.


Are there issues with it? From a management standpoint, yes. High locality pay cities are getting basically zilch. And it eliminates any financial incentive to promote. Thus why AMO balked at first, but the outcry was huge.


I think everyone in AMO realizes the SSR will do nothing to solve the issues at play in this thread. But, I was looking pretty hard at trying for a major, and now I'm not. At least for 9 more years.

RCpilot2018
05-12-2019, 07:05 AM
The SSR pay cap is now 166k. The other 10% for UAS is a retention incentive so it is not part of the cap that we are familiar with. There is another cap of around 200k for bonus monies. The 10% UAS is a bonus and will not be part of our high 3. Being that I can be a "New Panama" guy and only touch the Pred quarterly, I'll take it for a MCE only slot. Next year as a 13 step 8 I'll gladly take the 171K!

Cheers

USMCFLYR
05-12-2019, 07:53 AM
Pretty much. Full disclosure: I am a northern region dude staying for 20 barring extreme duress (i.e. unit closure, forced drone flying).



That said, a couple points in defense of AMO and the SSR here. I have been personally, first-hand told by EY that the SSR is programmed already for outlying years. This actually makes sense. Remember AMO is late to the SSR for pilots, non-LEO aviators at many other agencies have been getting it since January. Rarely in the federal gov't is such a standard reduced once set (USMC, curious if you are getting it).



Also, there are a couple of advantages to this raise many have not thought of. The SSR is a locality pay, not a bonus. So it counts toward your pension. With caps, that essentially means that a career line pilot will earn a director's pension. Only has to last for 3 years to achieve that. Also, the increase will be reflected in your TSP matching funds and agency automatic. This will make a BIG difference over time.


Are there issues with it? From a management standpoint, yes. High locality pay cities are getting basically zilch. And it eliminates any financial incentive to promote. Thus why AMO balked at first, but the outcry was huge.


I think everyone in AMO realizes the SSR will do nothing to solve the issues at play in this thread. But, I was looking pretty hard at trying for a major, and now I'm not. At least for 9 more years.
It seems that we line guys just found out about this. Few weeks ago after one of our pilots was sent a detailed email about it with the pay tables attached. Come to find out - the Marshalís (JUSTICE) pilots are already on that pay scale. I was talking to our ACP about it last week after this was brought out and he said our upper mgmt has been aware for at least a year. Of course he said that getting it would be a long road since it is a line item budget and must be written in and then all the way to Congressionally approved; but there is hope.

So let me get this part straight because I donít know a lot about it...but you guys - if SSR (what does that stand for?) is the same thing Iím talking about which I seems to be, is just a locality/COLA adjustment? The email I was referencing earlier made it seem like a plain old PAY increase for purposes of manning shortages (I did NOT mean to sound like I thought it was a short term bonus like they used in the military), but rather an increase in base GS/Step pay and I wondered if then the locality pay would be on top of that. What has been said here makes me think that is not the case.

Good luck to us all.

RCpilot2018
05-12-2019, 08:26 AM
SSR = specialty pay rate. Forget locality pay. There is no locality pay after this starts. It's base pay x 35%. Then take that total x 25% leap = what everyone will get. 10% UAS is that of base on top.
Pilots are all the same in the eyes of HQ. Get over it!
I'm not sure why some are crying they didn't get a raise. Everyone got something. Maybe you were a bit over paid at your local anyway.
What about the P3 community?

BAJ135
05-12-2019, 09:05 AM
SSR = specialty pay rate. Forget locality pay. There is no locality pay after this starts. It's base pay x 35%. Then take that total x 25% leap = what everyone will get. 10% UAS is that of base on top.
Pilots are all the same in the eyes of HQ. Get over it!
I'm not sure why some are crying they didn't get a raise. Everyone got something. Maybe you were a bit over paid at your local anyway.
What about the P3 community?

Stepping on the backs of your brothers and sisters to get yours. Good on you. Youíre likely already management but if not you should consider promoting.

USMCFLYR
05-12-2019, 09:15 AM
SSR = specialty pay rate.
Shouldn't that be SPR then :D Ah....gov't acronyms!

Forget locality pay. There is no locality pay after this starts. It's base pay x 35%. Then take that total x 25% leap = what everyone will get. 10% UAS is that of base on top.
Guess ours will use be the 35%ish then because we obviously don't get the LEAP pay; though we do get an additional pay that most equate to the old military 'flight pay' - and then a number of premium pays (OT Night differential, training, etc...)

The pay scale I saw though wasn't straight 35%; it varied a little. I think mine was 42% for instance.

https://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2019/Table076401012019.aspx

I think this was the table shared with us via email from some outside source. I don't know what all the different pay scales represent, the one listed above being 0764 - but what is the difference between all others except possibly the locality (you see 0764 has locations DFW and OK). The other concern for us is that DOT (or FAA) is not listed in the agencies/subelement list. Does this mean that we are eligible for these SSRs? I did hear that we were funded differently than most (meaning these are Title 5 funded and we are a different 'Title'?)

We all know that nothing about OPM is easy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I can tell you that some locals in my FIFO have already entertained the idea of trying to switch over to JPATS for the new pay table and A LOT less work and responsibility.

RCpilot2018
05-12-2019, 09:28 AM
Stepping on the backs of your brothers and sisters to get yours. Good on you. Youíre likely already management but if not you should consider promoting.

Mr. BAJ135, as a 13, I sign for a P3. It's about time I got something.
Spare me your BS!



SSR= special salary rate.

BAJ135
05-12-2019, 10:08 AM
Mr. BAJ135, as a 13, I sign for a P3. It's about time I got something.
Spare me your BS!



SSR= special salary rate.

Oh itís all starting to make sense now. A person smart enough to transfer into a P3 branch as a GS13 when everyone else who had the job was a GS14. Then you want to claim people at other locals are over paid and youíre underpaid. If anyone is full of BS itís certainly you. Own your own decisions or should I say mistakes. I could care less if you sign for a P3 or a C206, and neither does HQ, because youíre both paid the same now. Enjoy your raise while you have it.

USMCFLYR
05-12-2019, 10:34 AM
Stepping on the backs of your brothers and sisters to get yours. Good on you. You’re likely already management but if not you should consider promoting.
This is an absolutely idiotic statement.

RC - did you happen to ever fly the CBP P-3s will a pilot with the initials MO that was also an IP at the schoolhouse?

DustoffVT
05-12-2019, 11:15 AM
It seems that we line guys just found out about this. Few weeks ago after one of our pilots was sent a detailed email about it with the pay tables attached. Come to find out - the Marshal’s (JUSTICE) pilots are already on that pay scale. I was talking to our ACP about it last week after this was brought out and he said our upper mgmt has been aware for at least a year. Of course he said that getting it would be a long road since it is a line item budget and must be written in and then all the way to Congressionally approved; but there is hope.

So let me get this part straight because I don’t know a lot about it...but you guys - if SSR (what does that stand for?) is the same thing I’m talking about which I seems to be, is just a locality/COLA adjustment? The email I was referencing earlier made it seem like a plain old PAY increase for purposes of manning shortages (I did NOT mean to sound like I thought it was a short term bonus like they used in the military), but rather an increase in base GS/Step pay and I wondered if then the locality pay would be on top of that. What has been said here makes me think that is not the case.

Good luck to us all.

It definitely does not need congressional approval. AMO timeline from request submittal to OPM approval was about 3 months. Implemented as of today.

USMC, your raises can be higher than 35% because you have way more room to the cap without LEAP. Look at the bottom of those tables to see all your brethren that are already getting it. Honestly surprised DOT isn’t.

USMCFLYR
05-12-2019, 11:36 AM
It definitely does not need congressional approval. AMO timeline from request submittal to OPM approval was about 3 months. Implemented as of today.

USMC, your raises can be higher than 35% because you have way more room to the cap without LEAP. Look at the bottom of those tables to see all your brethren that are already getting it. Honestly surprised DOT isnít.
Are those the ones that are already getting it?

I took it that those were the agencies to which this was available.

If it is a list of agencies already receiving then I think that just bolsters our case.

RCpilot2018
05-12-2019, 12:00 PM
Oh itís all starting to make sense now. A person smart enough to transfer into a P3 branch as a GS13 when everyone else who had the job was a GS14. Then you want to claim people at other locals are over paid and youíre underpaid. If anyone is full of BS itís certainly you. Own your own decisions or should I say mistakes. I could care less if you sign for a P3 or a C206, and neither does HQ, because youíre both paid the same now. Enjoy your raise while you have it.

I would imagine I'm a trifle bit happier than you. You must be a real gem to fly with.

DustoffVT
05-12-2019, 01:30 PM
Are those the ones that are already getting it?

I took it that those were the agencies to which this was available.

If it is a list of agencies already receiving then I think that just bolsters our case.

I believe those agencies are already all getting it. A quick scan of USAjobs shows much higher than past starting salaries for 1881s in DOD, etc. A friend at JPATS is getting it.

BAJ135
05-12-2019, 05:38 PM
I would imagine I'm a trifle bit happier than you. You must be a real gem to fly with.

Nailed it...at least in your own mind.

Diverb
05-13-2019, 02:55 AM
The SSR pay cap is now 166k. The other 10% for UAS is a retention incentive so it is not part of the cap that we are familiar with. There is another cap of around 200k for bonus monies. The 10% UAS is a bonus and will not be part of our high 3. Being that I can be a "New Panama" guy and only touch the Pred quarterly, I'll take it for a MCE only slot. Next year as a 13 step 8 I'll gladly take the 171K!

Cheers

The 10% UAS, is that the location pay for hard to fill spots or referring too? I did read in the NASOC newsletter about the idea of a UAS incentive for qualified pilots.

RCpilot2018
05-13-2019, 03:44 AM
The 10% UAS, is that the location pay for hard to fill spots or referring too? I did read in the NASOC newsletter about the idea of a UAS incentive for qualified pilots.

I believe it to be for all qualified UAS pilots only.

Diverb
05-13-2019, 03:50 AM
Thanks. The extra 10% will help stomach last 4yrs