Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




UAL T38 Phlyer
10-06-2017, 05:53 AM
Wowsies. Just wow. :eek:

roS6oFjCDhc


Flightcap
10-06-2017, 06:46 AM
A few full side-to-side deflections before breakfast. That's how I like it. :D

UAL T38 Phlyer
10-06-2017, 06:48 AM
That had to be a wild ride for people sitting in the aft end...makes me wonder if overhead luggage racks opened and projectiles started flying?


tomgoodman
10-06-2017, 10:17 AM
Bad enough to throw Jennifer out of the shower. :eek:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzs_jl_FTg

rickair7777
10-06-2017, 11:20 AM
Airbus. Makes bad pilots mediocre...and good pilots mediocre.

JamesNoBrakes
10-06-2017, 03:21 PM
Nearly ground-looped. Impressive.

FlyJSH
10-06-2017, 04:42 PM
I think that landing was as beautiful as ship herself!


(Think Ted Danson wearing Geordi La Forge's visor)

SonicFlyer
10-07-2017, 10:23 PM
I do believe that would have been a go around

Lucky8888
10-09-2017, 10:50 PM
This is how to properly do a crosswind landing...

TCUHQ_-l6Qg

Beech Dude
10-10-2017, 09:34 PM
As in, weight on wheels. I've seen a few accident investigation show nerdery, read NTSB reports, etc. and seen this weirdness of Buses reducing control inputs upon WoW. Now, I am not a Bus guy. But from what the video shows, it's "all is well", then the FO (I kid) plants the right main, with about 10 degrees of crab and 1000 fpm descent, then it just gets ugly. Is this flight control reduction really a thing? Bus guys, I'm looking for some insight. If I ever had my Super cub tell me I couldn't put full aileron deflection in, who knows all the ground loop stories I'd have.

Panzon
10-10-2017, 09:37 PM
This is how to properly do a crosswind landing...

TCUHQ_-l6Qg

Great video. Pretty significant crab angle as it rolled out.

I wonder how many runway lights were wiped out by that parachute. Looks like it got at least one near the end of the video.

UAL T38 Phlyer
10-11-2017, 03:25 AM
As in, weight on wheels. I've seen a few accident investigation show nerdery, read NTSB reports, etc. and seen this weirdness of Buses reducing control inputs upon WoW. Now, I am not a Bus guy. But from what the video shows, it's "all is well", then the FO (I kid) plants the right main, with about 10 degrees of crab and 1000 fpm descent, then it just gets ugly. Is this flight control reduction really a thing? Bus guys, I'm looking for some insight. If I ever had my Super cub tell me I couldn't put full aileron deflection in, who knows all the ground loop stories I'd have.

All was NOT well....this guy had a significant drift going on at time of touchdown. He had not transitioned to "wing low," and the fuselage and gear trucks were still pointed right. When the gear bit, it went in the direction it was pointed. Coupled with the preceding right drift, he saw himself headed for the weeds at an alarming rate. Everything that followed was an overreaction to it.

Been a long time since I flew the Bus, but from what I remember: direct law happens at either 15 or 50 ft. It can make it a little challenging to de-crab, but not impossible.

The 320 could be landed wing low; I'm assuming the 380 can too, although there may be limited allowable bank to prevent dragging an engine (limit was 7 degrees in the 747).

WoW does NOT lock out your ability to maintain crosswind controls....you can maintain them throughout rollout (or takeoff, for that matter).

My guess is Emirates has a "max automation; min hand-flying" policy. Now: find yourself where the crosswind exceeds autoland limits, and practice your hand-flown piloting skills for the first time in a long time, under the most challenging conditions....

QED

Beech Dude
10-11-2017, 09:03 AM
All was NOT well....this guy had a significant drift going on at time of touchdown. He had not transitioned to "wing low," and the fuselage and gear trucks were still pointed right. When the gear bit, it went in the direction it was pointed. Coupled with the preceding right drift, he saw himself headed for the weeds at an alarming rate. Everything that followed was an overreaction to it.

Been a long time since I flew the Bus, but from what I remember: direct law happens at either 15 or 50 ft. It can make it a little challenging to de-crab, but not impossible.

The 320 could be landed wing low; I'm assuming the 380 can too, although there may be limited allowable bank to prevent dragging an engine (limit was 7 degrees in the 747).

WoW does NOT lock out your ability to maintain crosswind controls....you can maintain them throughout rollout (or takeoff, for that matter).

My guess is Emirates has a "max automation; min hand-flying" policy. Now: find yourself where the crosswind exceeds autoland limits, and practice your hand-flown piloting skills for the first time in a long time, under the most challenging conditions....

QED

Thanks for the insight on the Bus. If that tail wasn't bent before, it sure is now :D

Lucky8888
10-11-2017, 05:18 PM
Great video. Pretty significant crab angle as it rolled out.

It helps to have steerable landing gear. :D

ShyGuy
10-14-2017, 05:44 PM
Just to clarify, there is no Direct Law on landing unless you had failures and were degraded. It's Normal Law - Flare Mode which happens at below 100 ft AGL. Below 50 ft, it'll memorize your pitch attitude and then do a slight nose down input which then gives you the feeling you have to pull back for a traditional flare technique. You do have direct deflection for elevator, but it doesn't mean you're in Direct Law.

UAL T38 Phlyer
10-16-2017, 11:46 AM
Just to clarify, there is no Direct Law on landing unless you had failures and were degraded. It's Normal Law - Flare Mode which happens at below 100 ft AGL. Below 50 ft, it'll memorize your pitch attitude and then do a slight nose down input which then gives you the feeling you have to pull back for a traditional flare technique. You do have direct deflection for elevator, but it doesn't mean you're in Direct Law.


Thanks...been a while. ;)

Question: doesn't roll change as well? IE, in Normal Law, stick deflection gives a roll RATE....I thought that changed in Flare mode so you could apply cross-controls a la conventional aircraft.

Adlerdriver
10-16-2017, 12:41 PM
Thanks...been a while. ;)

Question: doesn't roll change as well? IE, in Normal Law, stick deflection gives a roll RATE....I thought that changed in Flare mode so you could apply cross-controls a la conventional aircraft.
I don't remember that being the case. I believe we had to kind of "pulse" the aileron input to drop the wing and avoid a continuous roll RATE upwind. But, it's been a while for me too.

tomgoodman
10-16-2017, 01:43 PM
OK, I am a dinosaur, but phooey on any airplane which gives me the control responses which a nerd in Toulouse has deemed to be in my best interests, instead of the ones I ordered. :p

rickair7777
10-16-2017, 01:56 PM
Thanks...been a while. ;)

Question: doesn't roll change as well? IE, in Normal Law, stick deflection gives a roll RATE....I thought that changed in Flare mode so you could apply cross-controls a la conventional aircraft.

No, it's pure roll rate only thing that changes in the flare is pitch. But if you put it at a bank bangle it will stay there. For the 320 anyway, know nothing about 380 although I assume it has to be very similar.

Southbay
10-16-2017, 02:21 PM
330 normal law, stick deflection gives you roll rate until weight on wheels. So for crosswind landing, rudder only to de-crab and then once you touch down you have to use stick deflection to hold aileron into the wind.

JamesNoBrakes
10-17-2017, 05:12 AM
OK, I am a dinosaur, but phooey on any airplane which gives me the control responses which a nerd in Toulouse has deemed to be in my best interests, instead of the ones I ordered. :p

So you never use autobrakes?

Airhoss
11-14-2017, 08:04 AM
So you never use autobrakes?

When did wheel brakes become flight controls?

Hetman
11-14-2017, 08:46 AM
On 10-17-2017 at 9:12AM. Says it right there.

vessbot
11-15-2017, 03:01 PM
When did wheel brakes become flight controls?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but the brakes are totally a flight control. Not every plane is a tricycle with a steerable nosewheel, and differential brakes have given me the yaw authority to keep me and the student on the runway many times.

sailingfun
11-16-2017, 07:34 AM
When did wheel brakes become flight controls?

On landing?

Airhoss
11-16-2017, 08:16 AM
On landing?

And obviously that has NOTHING to do with the blended flight control mode on an Airbus.

Airhoss
11-16-2017, 08:21 AM
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but the brakes are totally a flight control. Not every plane is a tricycle with a steerable nosewheel, and differential brakes have given me the yaw authority to keep me and the student on the runway many times.

And you're talking to a guy with thousands of hours of tailwheel time who currently flys competition aerobatics in some pretty snappy conventional geared hot rods.:)

That being said auto brakes provide a deceleration rate that if they are not doing and adequate job you can manually override them at any time. Which is not the case with the blended flight control mode on an Airbus. Just saying.

vessbot
11-16-2017, 08:22 AM
And obviously that has NOTHING to do with the blended flight control mode on an Airbus.

Correct.

But I think you might have just given "some nerd in Toulouse" a new idea...

rickair7777
11-16-2017, 03:48 PM
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but the brakes are totally a flight control. Not every plane is a tricycle with a steerable nosewheel, and differential brakes have given me the yaw authority to keep me and the student on the runway many times.

Technically wheel brakes are not primary or secondary flight controls.

JohnBurke
11-16-2017, 04:57 PM
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but the brakes are totally a flight control.

No, they're totally not.

vessbot
11-16-2017, 06:15 PM
No, they're totally not.

C'mon Avbug, don't play coy and make your point. Obviously you appreciate the value and effectiveness of differential braking when the other (front-line) directional controls fail, reach the limit of their authority, or are not installed to begin with.

JohnBurke
11-16-2017, 07:47 PM
C'mon Avbug, don't play coy and make your point. Obviously you appreciate the value and effectiveness of differential braking when the other (front-line) directional controls fail, reach the limit of their authority, or are not installed to begin with.

I made my point. You incorrectly stated that brakes are flight controls.

I correctly stated that they are not flight controls. Apparently you do not understand this.

Apparently you elect to fly in conditions that exceed the crosswind capabilities of the flight controls of the aircraft, and use brakes as a crutch when you run out of aerodynamic control. One day that will hurt or kill you. Or hurt or kill the students you encourage by demonstrating this poor judgement.

I understand differential braking. I have flown numerous aircraft that have no other steering, from single engine piston and turbine aircraft through large, four engine airplanes.

I have never used brakes as a flight control, because they are not.

JamesNoBrakes
11-16-2017, 08:53 PM
The point had nothing to do with autobrakes being "flight controls" per say, it had to do with levels of automation we willingly accept in certain areas, while possibly irrationally rejecting in other areas.

JohnBurke
11-18-2017, 03:31 AM
Autobrakes are not flight controls, either, and in fact, are a function of ground logic, tilt, etc.

Autobrakes are not automation that one is "willing to accept," but a useful, indeed critical function of landing performance prediction and a level of protection through the antiskid system which provide a uniform rate of acceleration (or "deceleration," if one prefers).

In the case of the fishtailing A380 or similar type aircraft, an autobrake function would not serve to worsen the situation, but to stabilize it, and would do so more effectively than a pilot trying to play catch-up with manual braking. A pilot attempting to use differential, alternate braking to right that situation would easily go phugoid and make it worse. Uniform braking on a large aircraft is in order. Autobrakes on a large airplane in the situation video, however will also apply a measure of differential in direct response to tire speed as well as overall acceleration, and the braking action at each tire will have a damping effect.

badflaps
11-26-2017, 08:27 AM
How many side loads can you get away with before you have a big suprise.

Grumble
11-26-2017, 10:16 PM
I made my point. You incorrectly stated that brakes are flight controls.

I correctly stated that they are not flight controls. Apparently you do not understand this.

Apparently you elect to fly in conditions that exceed the crosswind capabilities of the flight controls of the aircraft, and use brakes as a crutch when you run out of aerodynamic control. One day that will hurt or kill you. Or hurt or kill the students you encourage by demonstrating this poor judgement.

I understand differential braking. I have flown numerous aircraft that have no other steering, from single engine piston and turbine aircraft through large, four engine airplanes.

I have never used brakes as a flight control, because they are not.

Obviously you need some tailwheel time.

JohnBurke
11-26-2017, 11:14 PM
Obviously you need some tailwheel time.

Do I?

30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.

Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.

It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.

I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?

Dougdrvr
11-27-2017, 07:06 AM
OK, I am a dinosaur, but phooey on any airplane which gives me the control responses which a nerd in Toulouse has deemed to be in my best interests, instead of the ones I ordered. :p

Such an eloquent post deserves to be placed in the time capsule.

vroll1800
11-27-2017, 07:28 AM
Do I?

30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.

Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.

It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.

I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?

To those who think that brakes are part of the flight control system: Next time you're in flight (climb, cruise, descent, whatever) please let us know how applying the brakes enabled you to comply with ATC heading or altitude change. Also please provide link to heavy iron electronic flight manual that has braking system in "Flight Controls" chapter.

Airhoss
11-27-2017, 02:08 PM
Only in the world of the internet do wheel brakes become flight controls. Differential braking on the ground is a ground handling technique. Differential wheel braking in flight is kind of useless.

Grumble
11-28-2017, 04:25 PM
Do I?

30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.

Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.

It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.

I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?

So you’ve never used differential braking during a high crosswind wheel landing (airplanes flying, needed for directional control, that’s a flight control)... I find your assertion of DC-3 time suspect.

Next time I take my 180 into the Idaho back country I’ll make sure I use only flight controls getting in and out of some fishing and camping spots. Really put that pponk gear to the test.

JohnBurke
11-28-2017, 04:48 PM
So youíve never used differential braking during a high crosswind wheel landing (airplanes flying, needed for directional control, thatís a flight control)... I find your assertion of DC-3 time suspect.

Next time I take my 180 into the Idaho back country Iíll make sure I use only flight controls getting in and out of some fishing and camping spots. Really put that pponk gear to the test.

Ok. You've got limited conventional gear experience. That's all you needed to say. That, and you have no clue what you're talking about.

Pick up any aircraft maintenance manual. Find landing gear in the flight control section. Show me.

Pick up any aircraft flight manual. Find landing gear cited as a flight control. Show me.

Find one case of landing gear cited as a flight control for aircraft certification. Show me.

I manage to go an entire season in an Air Tractor 802 and hardly touch the brakes save for initiating and ending taxi turns. If I have enough airspeed for rudder, then I use rudder. If the crosswind has exceeded the aerodynamic capabilities of the aircraft such that brake is required to takeoff or land, then I exercise my ability to not be an idiot, and either don't fly, or choose a different runway.

I recall watching a russian rocket surgeon in an armored T65 thrush a few years back, who managed to heat his brakes enough for the left to fade, on landing, as he tried to use them to manage a crosswind. Chief Pilot for the US State Dept was in the back seat, ended up going for a ride when the airplane made a smart 90 degree turn, with no further directional control and went cross country, winding up nose down in a ditch. It had just come out of maintenance and had all the bullet holes repaired, too. That guy's future didn't last longer than the time it took to kick him out of the cockpit.

Brakes: not flight controls.

Brakes; best used when the tail is on the ground, not when doing wheel landings.

Brakes; best work when the weight is on the wheels, not when it's supported by the wings.

When you have sufficient airspeed and power applied to raise the tail and use the rudder, you have flight controls. If you're riding brakes while taking off or landing and your tail is in the air, then you have a lot to learn. If you think brakes are flight controls, you have a lot to learn. If you think you've got the tiger by the tail and don't need to learn, then you're not long for this world. Grow up, wise up, and don't paint yourself into a corner with bad habits; they WILL bite you.

trip
11-29-2017, 07:53 AM
You're wrestling with a pig in mud here.

By the way I remember an airplane where pumping the brakes in flight could enable you to transfer hyd fluid from one system to another.

2StgTurbine
11-29-2017, 08:25 AM
So youíve never used differential braking during a high crosswind wheel landing (airplanes flying, needed for directional control, thatís a flight control).

In a glider I can stick my hand out the window and get the aircraft to yaw. When a passenger heads to the lav while someone is flying a light jet, it will cause the nose to pitch up. Just because something has an effect on the movement of the aircraft does not make it a flight control.

tomgoodman
11-29-2017, 10:20 AM
In this emergency, the aft landing gear was lowered for directional stability.

https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/B-52-no-tail.jpg


The Time a B-52 Landed Without a Tail Fin (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/news/a27584/b-52-landed-without-a-tail-fin/)

rickair7777
11-29-2017, 10:54 AM
You're wrestling with a pig in mud here.

By the way I remember an airplane where pumping the brakes in flight could enable you to transfer hyd fluid from one system to another.

I remember one where you had to cycle the parking brake to do that. I just called MX on the ground, but some folks liked to take care of it themselves enroute. Sometimes they landed with the parking brake on too.

Hetman
11-29-2017, 04:46 PM
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/USAirParkingBrake/checkride_dot_com_USAirParkingBrake_006.jpg.jpg

Grumble
11-30-2017, 02:47 PM
Ok. You've got limited conventional gear experience. That's all you needed to say. That, and you have no clue what you're talking about.

Pick up any aircraft maintenance manual. Find landing gear in the flight control section. Show me.

Pick up any aircraft flight manual. Find landing gear cited as a flight control. Show me.

Find one case of landing gear cited as a flight control for aircraft certification. Show me.

I manage to go an entire season in an Air Tractor 802 and hardly touch the brakes save for initiating and ending taxi turns. If I have enough airspeed for rudder, then I use rudder. If the crosswind has exceeded the aerodynamic capabilities of the aircraft such that brake is required to takeoff or land, then I exercise my ability to not be an idiot, and either don't fly, or choose a different runway.

I recall watching a russian rocket surgeon in an armored T65 thrush a few years back, who managed to heat his brakes enough for the left to fade, on landing, as he tried to use them to manage a crosswind. Chief Pilot for the US State Dept was in the back seat, ended up going for a ride when the airplane made a smart 90 degree turn, with no further directional control and went cross country, winding up nose down in a ditch. It had just come out of maintenance and had all the bullet holes repaired, too. That guy's future didn't last longer than the time it took to kick him out of the cockpit.

Brakes: not flight controls.

Brakes; best used when the tail is on the ground, not when doing wheel landings.

Brakes; best work when the weight is on the wheels, not when it's supported by the wings.

When you have sufficient airspeed and power applied to raise the tail and use the rudder, you have flight controls. If you're riding brakes while taking off or landing and your tail is in the air, then you have a lot to learn. If you think brakes are flight controls, you have a lot to learn. If you think you've got the tiger by the tail and don't need to learn, then you're not long for this world. Grow up, wise up, and don't paint yourself into a corner with bad habits; they WILL bite you.

All your statements are about braking with the tail up/down are wrong, especially in the back country. If limited experience is most of what youíve listed, plus Ford Tri Motor, AN2, B-17, Thunder Mustang, and a couple others, then sure.

By the way gear in/out is required for certification of Vmc (since you asked).

Iím out.

JohnBurke
12-01-2017, 10:22 AM
Back country makes no difference. In fact, if you're on rough surfaces, unprepared surfaces, wet grass, etc, keep your toes or heels or hands off the damn brakes. Especially if your tail is in the air.

Lowering landing gear during a dive certification test does not make the brakes a flight control. Show where any document states to the contrary. You cannot.

Brakes are not a flight control, and simply because you either wilfully misuse brakes in the "back country" or simply have bad habits, or just outright don't know what you're doing, does not make them a flight control, either.

Show a document or source that states otherwise.

Grumble
12-01-2017, 04:41 PM
Back country makes no difference. In fact, if you're on rough surfaces, unprepared surfaces, wet grass, etc, keep your toes or heels or hands off the damn brakes. Especially if your tail is in the air.

Lowering landing gear during a dive certification test does not make the brakes a flight control. Show where any document states to the contrary. You cannot.

Brakes are not a flight control, and simply because you either wilfully misuse brakes in the "back country" or simply have bad habits, or just outright don't know what you're doing, does not make them a flight control, either.

Show a document or source that states otherwise.

Reel me back in...

What are you talking about? Do you have a multi engine rating? Do you know what Vmc is?



Find one case of landing gear cited as a flight control for aircraft certification. Show me.
.

FAR 23.149

As for the following paragraph, visit the Valdez competition and tell everyone of those guys they’re doing it wrong.

B757
12-01-2017, 04:58 PM
Back country makes no difference. In fact, if you're on rough surfaces, unprepared surfaces, wet grass, etc, keep your toes or heels or hands off the damn brakes. Especially if your tail is in the air.

Lowering landing gear during a dive certification test does not make the brakes a flight control. Show where any document states to the contrary. You cannot.

Brakes are not a flight control, and simply because you either wilfully misuse brakes in the "back country" or simply have bad habits, or just outright don't know what you're doing, does not make them a flight control, either.

Show a document or source that states otherwise.
..JB, concerning your comment about the brakes, this one is for you..Even guys like you can learn something new..Thatīs if you want to..

Fly safe,
B757

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdHkpq7GMuc

JohnBurke
12-01-2017, 07:01 PM
..JB, concerning your comment about the brakes, this one is for you..Even guys like you can learn something new..Thatīs if you want to..

Fly safe,
B757

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdHkpq7GMuc

It's a guy landing a tailwheel aircraft, still not using brakes as flight controls. Your point?

He used brakes to stop, a fairly common use of brakes, which do not make them flight controls.

Reel me back in...

What are you talking about?


No need to apologize for the comprehension problem. It's not longer called a handicap. You're challenged, that's all.

Brakes are not flight controls. Never were. Still aren't. You're still having a hard time understanding this fact.

The use of gear in a Vmc demonstration, and in certification, does not make it a flight control. Nowhere in 14 CFR 23 is landing gear or brake cited as a flight control. This is because it is not a flight control.

Landing gear is included in Vmc calculation for certification because the regulation requires Vmc to be calculated in the landing and takeoff configuration (see 14 CFR23.2135(c).

Do you have a multi engine rating?


Not relevant, but yes. ATP. Multiple types. 747 Captain. Brakes are still not a flight control. Neither is landing gear.


FAR 23.149


It's been a while since you actually looked at the regulation, isn't it? You understand that you've cited a regulation which does not exist (14 CFR23.149), right?

Of course you don't.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=eb62f52ec17f0aeb3c103f9a4d7f4a88&mc=true&node=se14.1.23_12135&rgn=div8

As for Valdez, Alaska, brakes are still not flight controls, nor is the gear.

B757
12-01-2017, 08:30 PM
[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2475932]It's a guy landing a tailwheel aircraft, still not using brakes as flight controls. Your point?

..My point is what you said earlier..

..(JB)..Back country makes no difference. In fact, if you're on rough surfaces, unprepared surfaces, wet grass, etc, keep your toes or heels or hands off the damn brakes. Especially if your tail is in the air.

FlyJSH
12-01-2017, 09:24 PM
Guys, accept it. JB is THE aviation god.

Oh, and his is at least three inches longer than yours.

2StgTurbine
12-01-2017, 10:54 PM
Guys, accept it. JB is THE aviation god.

Oh, and his is at least three inches longer than yours.

I am sure that he is an aviation god, but I cannot believe that he has ever operated an airplane with a crew. His method of "resolving" disagreements would prevent 99% of pilots from finishing loading the FMS before they called out sick.

galaxy flyer
12-02-2017, 08:10 AM
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/USAirParkingBrake/checkride_dot_com_USAirParkingBrake_006.jpg.jpg

I belive thatís the Global where the pilot mistakenly pulled the parking/emer brake instead of the speed brake. He was a Falcon pilot and the Globalís brake was where the Falconís speed brake handle was located on the console. He had a rough time in Global school, too.

Doesnít make brakes a flight control.

GF

Hetman
12-03-2017, 02:49 AM
USAirways Parking Brake Set Landing (http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/USAirParkingBrake/)

Could not find any "official" information.

JohnBurke
12-03-2017, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2475932]It's a guy landing a tailwheel aircraft, still not using brakes as flight controls. Your point?

..My point is what you said earlier..

..(JB)..Back country makes no difference. In fact, if you're on rough surfaces, unprepared surfaces, wet grass, etc, keep your toes or heels or hands off the damn brakes. Especially if your tail is in the air.

I said so correctly. If you're operating in the "back country," keep your damn toes off the brakes.

If you're showing off at a landing contest at Valdez with your tricked out gimmick airplane, then do whatever you want.

If you think brakes are a flight control, you're dead wrong, and the same goes for landing gear. Now, show me that document which states otherwise.

You can't.

say again
12-03-2017, 11:19 AM
I am sure that he is an aviation god, but I cannot believe that he has ever operated an airplane with a crew. His method of "resolving" disagreements would prevent 99% of pilots from finishing loading the FMS before they called out sick.

The torture being in a cockpit with the likes of him... :eek: All rise for the almighty sky king. :rolleyes:

JohnBurke
12-03-2017, 03:42 PM
It's simple; this is a discussion not about me; are you able to contribute to the subject, or are you not? We quickly see who is able.

Which one of you can show that brakes or gear are flight controls? Do it.

Neither are flight controls; those arguing otherwise are talking out their backside for no other reason than to be heard, and doing so falsely.

B757
12-03-2017, 06:17 PM
The torture being in a cockpit with the likes of him... :eek: All rise for the almighty sky king. :rolleyes:
..The advise I got from my ex. boss, a long time ago..;..``If a day comes, when you think you know it all, quit..Because you are about to have your last flight``..Best advise ever..Are you listening JB ??

Fly safe,
B757

JohnBurke
12-03-2017, 11:37 PM
..The advise I got from my ex. boss, a long time ago..;..``If a day comes, when you think you know it all, quit..Because you are about to have your last flight``..Best advise ever..afe,


You'll find I already stated something very similar in this thread regarding a few who think they have the tiger by the tail with their differentially braked strong crosswind "back country" landings and takeoffs.

It will bite them. It's only a matter of time.

I've seen it happen first hand.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1