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ucsspirit
10-09-2017, 02:40 PM
I know this is a bit of a stretch, but I was wondering if any Australian pilots roam the forum? My wife is Australian, and I am in the process of converting my licenses so we can move down there. The big question is how do the majors in Oz stack up pay wise to the big U.S. carriers? Please feel free to PM me and give me any information you feel is pertinent.


captjns
10-09-2017, 08:32 PM
I know this is a bit of a stretch, but I was wondering if any Australian pilots roam the forum? My wife is Australian, and I am in the process of converting my licenses so we can move down there. The big question is how do the majors in Oz stack up pay wise to the big U.S. carriers? Please feel free to PM me and give me any information you feel is pertinent.

You may find more information on PPrune.

The Dominican
10-10-2017, 01:17 AM
Well....., we still have a steady stream (although not large numbers) of Aussie pilots leaving carriers there to come fly at AJX...., The last two pilots I trained were from the Qantas Cargo outfit.. (separate to mainline) I would do some research in your shoes...!

If moving to OZ is something you both have your minds set on..., you would do better considering a commuting gig.

Just my 2 cents....., I don't work in OZ so take it with a large grain of salt.


badflaps
10-10-2017, 07:27 AM
I know this is a bit of a stretch, but I was wondering if any Australian pilots roam the forum? My wife is Australian, and I am in the process of converting my licenses so we can move down there. The big question is how do the majors in Oz stack up pay wise to the big U.S. carriers? Please feel free to PM me and give me any information you feel is pertinent.

I see you don't spend much time on APC, The Dominican has about a 99% accuracy rate. Worth heeding.:)

Groundpointfife
10-10-2017, 10:22 AM
You may find more information on PPrune.

Pprune will provide much better information on conditions. As far as I can tell though you'll be better compensated in the USA with lower taxes. The work rules are better in the USA too. Ask how they bid for flying.

Qantas did not hire from 2008 for quite a few years, then they entered into an agreement with Emirates to do flying for them. Currently I believe you'd start as a second officer with Qantas. There are opportunities with Jetstar, tiger and Virgin Australia.

A lot of pilots went to HK or the Middle East just to find work as a pilot....or even places like Air Japan (read jobs not in Australia)

US aviation also is quite a bit bigger than Aussie aviation, tell them that one airline in the US has over 10k pilots and you'll see what I mean. As of March this year CASA had 7400 ATPLs.

Qantas looks to women to solve looming pilot shortage (http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/careers/qantas-targets-women-to-ward-off-looming-pilot-shortage/news-story/75298f4d9dbd31198ab622a4bb8bcdf2)

Do your homework, I hope it works out well for you and I'm sure you can have a great career down there. If you've noticed that the regional airlines are doing E3 visas for aussies, it is a way for Australian pilots to build jet time and become more competitive applicants back home- but the regionals in the states benefit by not needing to raise wages as quickly as if they were only hiring US citizens or green card holders.

ucsspirit
10-10-2017, 11:25 AM
I appreciate all the responses, you all are pointing me in the right direction. The move ( not set in stone ) is more for my wife, to be around her family which I have nothing against. I just want to make sure I am employable down under.

I noticed Skywest and the E3 visa the other day and kinda laughed. I didnt think it had got that bad in the U.S. yet.

Groundpointfife
10-11-2017, 05:58 AM
I appreciate all the responses, you all are pointing me in the right direction. The move ( not set in stone ) is more for my wife, to be around her family which I have nothing against. I just want to make sure I am employable down under.

I noticed Skywest and the E3 visa the other day and kinda laughed. I didnt think it had got that bad in the U.S. yet.

It's not that bad in the USA, as I said, just a technique so they can fill classes without upping pay.

SkyWest, Mesa, Compass, Trans States and GoJet are advertising they will hire E3 visa holders. Endeavor is not.

Having family around is always nice, especially if you have kids. My suggestion though is get on with a major (Virgin, WN) or legacy here in the USA and live close to your family. Then use your days off and vacation to visit her family. If you work there and have your family visit, you might be flown down to min days off (10/month) with rosters built for you by the company- even with some seniority. Seniority when you have it is a great thing in the states.

Kenny
10-11-2017, 08:55 AM
I was an RJ puke for the best part of 9 years here and then moved back to Oz to fly for Virgin for over 5 years. Been back in the US&A now for just over 2 years at a Legacy.

My advice...don't do it. The pay sounds far better when you compare AU$ to US$ but the cost of living is unlike anything you'll have experienced here in the US. Unless you're used to Manhattan or The Bay Area.

Here are the figures...

3rd year 737 FO...AU$150k (FO's top out at 3rd year)
Yearly Tax...AU$40k

I'd be doing my command training now if I hadn't left. So 7 years to command and on AU$220k but paying AU$80k in taxes. A new hire now would wait around 15 years at best.

Weekly food bill...AU$250-300 for 2 people.
Weekly rent...AU$650. One bedroom apt in Sydney
Gas..AU1.50/ltr...around AU$5.60/gal
Daycare...AU$150/day or about AU$1000/month for 3 days a week.
Car tax...AU$1200/year
Utilities(Gas/Electric)...AU$500/qtr
Cell phones x2...AU$300/month
Average house price in excess of AU$ 1million.
Etc,etc

All in all we paid around AU$480000 for 5 years of taxes and rent. And for most of that time the AU$ was on parity with the US$.

ucsspirit
10-11-2017, 01:37 PM
Kenny,

Thanks for the break down. I understand the cost of living is much higher, I spend a fair amount of time there with me in laws and wife. you put great information out there to consider.

Kenny
10-11-2017, 03:23 PM
No wuckin' furries...

The deal changer for living in Oz is kids. Take one salary out of the equation and add the cost of a kid or two and you go from being able to save $$ and treat yourself to a night out occasionally, to living pay cheque to pay cheque. We weren't prepared to do that and I was extremely lucky to get a job back here that wasn't a regional.

Not sure where your in laws are but Melbourne isn't too far behind Sydney and of course Brisbane and Adelaide are less again. Sydney though, is the junior base for Qantas, Virgin, Tiger and Jet*. Brisbane is an extremely senior base for QF and VA.

Oh and as far work rules are concerned, I'd say they were far better there than they are here. I wish I got a company paid taxi to and from work, after an international trip or a company paid hotel, if I'm too tired to drive home.

Also, bidding was much better at VA; they had a PBS system that actually worked, rather than the convoluted and complicated system I've given up trying to work with here.

trenttdk
10-19-2017, 12:26 AM
I can help you a bit if you like.

Generally, I think you've been well advised. Oz is a tough nut to crack. I'm originally from the US and have been here quite a while. I'm lucky enough to work for THE major airline here :D and I can tell you it's a very good gig. Pay, work rules, etc, all are similar to what I think you'd get at the US majors. The catch is that it's hard to get on and there are loads of overqualified applicants. However, the good news is that, after a very long drought, Q is hiring in fairly big numbers. I think it's something like 20 a month for the last year or so and forecast to continue like that for the foreseeable future. Total number of pilots is just over 2,000.
Cost of living you seem to have a handle on. To reiterate, Sydney is insane. But, so is Manhattan, or London, or Paris... Like most countries, if you want a reasonable lifestyle, you'll need to get out of downtown. If you're prepared to drive, you can do well in any of the cities. I'm obviously biased, but where I think we're miles ahead is in quality of life. It really is a great place to live- and bring up kids if that's on the cards.
Feel free to send a PM if you want, or reply here for the masses to chime in on!! ;)
Cheers, TDK

oicur12
10-22-2017, 11:17 PM
Im from oz now living in the USA. Flown for major airlines in both countries.

I work fewer days than my mates in jetstar/virgin do but i get paid less. Oz is like the US, some cities are expensive, some are not so.

Most australians think oz is super expensive to live but I dont think they understand that the US can be very expensive too.

Oz is an easier place to live on a lower salary in my opinion.

Weather is not as extreme, no cold cities like chicago.

If you crack a job with an airline there you will find it very anal and uptight and not as chilled as a US carrier. Be prepared to call the captain sir if you get into QF!

trenttdk
10-23-2017, 03:49 AM
Be prepared to call the captain sir if you get into QF!

Maaaaaaaaate. P*ss take? :D

Been in Q over 15 years. Never called anyone sir. Never even heard of it. There were a couple of guys who wanted to be called 'Captain' in front of the crew or pax. They're long gone as far as I know. Certainly no one's going to be calling me or any of my mates sir:D:D

ucsspirit
10-26-2017, 11:11 AM
I will say that after several years in the military, I don't have too much issue calling anyone in a position above me Sir. In fact I do so until told otherwise. There is a lot of great information in this post, and I thank everyone for their contribution.

oicur12
10-28-2017, 06:03 PM
I guess times are a changin. My mates joined the rat back 25 years ago and certainly sir was common back then. You are correct, apparently now its skipper or captain for some. The classic and 744 guys apparently were really into it. Probably the same guys that lobbied the union to allow them to wear their RAAF medals to work.

This discussion just makes me realize how old I am getting!

25 years ago!!!!!

NYC Pilot
10-31-2017, 07:51 PM
Kenny, would you say that it's fair to say that flying for a quality foreign carrier is more desirable than flying for a legacy in the U.S? I dunno why but flying overseas felt like I was eating filet mignon while working for a U.S legacy feels like I'm eating a peanut butter sandwich. Both tasty at times but I gave you the analogy to see if you know what I mean since we have done both.

SD3FR8DOG
10-31-2017, 09:24 PM
Kenny, would you say that it's fair to say that flying for a quality foreign carrier is more desirable than flying for a legacy in the U.S? I dunno why but flying overseas felt like I was eating filet mignon while working for a U.S legacy feels like I'm eating a peanut butter sandwich. Both tasty at times but I gave you the analogy to see if you know what I mean since we have done both.

Iíll dig up some pics of the crew food down under. :eek:

captjns
11-01-2017, 06:26 AM
Kenny, would you say that it's fair to say that flying for a quality foreign carrier is more desirable than flying for a legacy in the U.S? I dunno why but flying overseas felt like I was eating filet mignon while working for a U.S legacy feels like I'm eating a peanut butter sandwich. Both tasty at times but I gave you the analogy to see if you know what I mean since we have done both.

As an expat, with the exception of Ryanair, flying for foreign carriers was like eating filet mignonette versus PP&Js... ranging from QOL, crew meals, company transport from home to work, pay, benefits, confirmed business class or better for block off... and the list goes on.

NYC Pilot
11-01-2017, 05:25 PM
As an expat, with the exception of Ryanair, flying for foreign carriers was like eating filet mignonette versus PP&Js... ranging from QOL, crew meals, company transport from home to work, pay, benefits, confirmed business class or better for block off... and the list goes on.

Yes captjns, this is how I feel. Overseas felt like a dream job and exotic, now I go to work for a paycheck. Funny thing is, I was making a lot more overseas as well. The only plus now is that I get to drive to work from my house. The whole scene is different, whatever that is worth.

NYC Pilot
11-01-2017, 05:54 PM
What I will say is this, we are unionized in the USA so there is limited job protection verses an expat gig being at the mercy of the employer and can be let go on a whim.

captjns
11-01-2017, 08:14 PM
What I will say is this, we are unionized in the USA so there is limited job protection verses an expat gig being at the mercy of the employer and can be let go on a whim.

True... since Ď92, by the grace of the Sky Gods, never been furloughed.;)

oicur12
11-02-2017, 06:41 AM
"we are unionized in the USA so there is limited job protection verses an expat gig being at the mercy of the employer and can be let go on a whim."

QF is unionized probably more so than any US legacy carrier, the work rules book is thicker than the aircraft manual.

Do QF still provide hotel rooms and cash allowances in home cities?

NYC Pilot
11-02-2017, 07:05 PM
True... since Ď92, by the grace of the Sky Gods, never been furloughed.;)

Now...were you being sarcastic about the never been furloughed part? Lol

NYC Pilot
11-02-2017, 07:07 PM
"we are unionized in the USA so there is limited job protection verses an expat gig being at the mercy of the employer and can be let go on a whim."

QF is unionized probably more so than any US legacy carrier, the work rules book is thicker than the aircraft manual.

Do QF still provide hotel rooms and cash allowances in home cities?

Qantas has a very good reputation regarding union stuff I assume. I was referring more to jobs like the ME3 and such..

NYC Pilot
11-02-2017, 07:08 PM
Iíll dig up some pics of the crew food down under. :eek:

Can't be that bad, or is it? I had the best crew meals ever when I worked for an overseas carrier.

captjns
11-02-2017, 08:56 PM
Now...were you being sarcastic about the never been furloughed part? Lol

By the grace of the Sky Gods, never experienced the ďFĒ word overseas. Took a voluntary furlough from HP in 1991 which lead me to my first contract overseas. Never looked back.

captjns
11-02-2017, 08:58 PM
Can't be that bad, or is it? I had the best crew meals ever when I worked for an overseas carrier.

Amen. Only thing missing was the breadsticks anc cognac. But seriously crew meals were no less than business class grade on ceramics and real adult silver ware.

Beats the Bon Fare crew meal layout for sure.

VHDSJ
12-08-2017, 01:32 PM
The Qantas recruitment team were in Hawaii a few days ago for a roadshow looking for Dash 8 drivers for their Qantaslink regional.

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6343594678151188480

Anyone attend?

Aurora8
12-09-2017, 04:16 PM
Kenny,

Thanks for the break down. I understand the cost of living is much higher, I spend a fair amount of time there with me in laws and wife. you put great information out there to consider.

The one thing I would add, having flown in both countries, is that it's a lot more fun to fly in the USA. ATC in AUS is the worst; it's 'us and them' all the time, whereas a lot of controllers are private pilots in the US and it shows in how well they treat you. You also don't get the huge variations in wx and geography the US has which keeps things interesting, not to mention all the different sorts of aircraft you'll encounter on a daily basis.

I agree, it's hard to beat the lifestyle in AUS, but we sure pay for it...

RomSh85
03-30-2019, 12:41 AM
hey guys, sorry if my question is out of the subject a bit, but I need your advice about obtaining Australian visa for Canadians (https://etaaustraliaonline.com/blog/australian-visa-for-canadian/) ? Is it really as easy to get as described?

Ausflyer
05-03-2019, 01:13 AM
hey guys, sorry if my question is out of the subject a bit, but I need your advice about obtaining Australian visa for Canadians (https://etaaustraliaonline.com/blog/australian-visa-for-canadian/) ? Is it really as easy to get as described?


That visa looks like the one you'd need for a holiday or if you were traveling on business.

Getting a work visa is a completely different animal. I'd speculate that it's almost impossible that a local airline would sponsor you unless the experience you had was in very short supply (turboprop driver type experience)

Aleksandr
05-03-2019, 02:39 AM
Who are we looking for?
This is not a job, itís an adventure. You need to have IFR rating, and twin piston licence issued by EASA with a solid flying experience. Previous military experience really appreciated.
The plane crew is composed by the planeís pilot (Fabien), his girlfriend who advise on social media marketing, and a photographer/video maker.
You will be able to log for all IFR flights when youíll be PIC, and will share VFR flights with Fabien.
There is no remuneration for this opportunity, but all transportation are covered by the plane operator.
You need to be easy going, have a curious appetite for travelling, and able to adapt effortlessly to change of plans.
Finally, youíll need to be available from OCTOBER 2019 for up to 6 to 9 months and have the ability to obtain visas for all the countries weíll be visiting (currently: Australia, New-Zealand, Indonesia, South-East Asia, Burma, India, Sri-Lanka, Oman, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and all EU countries).


What is the #FORTHISFORTHAT project?
The project consists of flying a P.68 Observer from Australia to London following backpackersí routes and connecting with people along the way. We are expecting to cover 40í000km flying the plane.
The plane is owned and operated by www.skypacking.social and is currently being specially equipped for this very special adventure in Sydney, Australia.
The main pilot of the plane is Fabien, a French entrepreneur who will be presenting the related YouTube show. Travelling low by light plane will allow for amazing images to be shot and will result in the production of a weekly vlog show on youtube.com/forthisforthat that will focus on exploring the motivation behind individuals decisions in life.
Why do you this for, why do you that for?
The plane does not have a fixed itinerary but instead, decisions will be made based on people meet during the journey, suggestions from locals and followers/subscribers, and of course the weather.

How to apply?
Send your CV to [email protected] with ĎGUEST PILOT 2019í and include links to your social media accounts.

SD3FR8DOG
05-03-2019, 02:44 PM
Can't be that bad, or is it? I had the best crew meals ever when I worked for an overseas carrier.

Big difference in the standard offered between QF and the LCC thatís tried to go full service.

JaredE
08-04-2019, 05:41 PM
Let me start by saying I'm super junior to all of this. So much so I'm still under Army contract. That being said...

The wife and I are looking at making Australia our home after my Army
career. The plan for now is to UQR, get hired with a regional, bank some 121 time, apply to Australian companies. I understand they do SO positions but no military type RTP like US carriers.

I considered applying for an SO position right off, but I want some 121 time as a fallback.

My question is, will I need to bank 1000 to 1500 hours of time as a captain (PIC) in a regional in the US before I apply or will I be competitive with 1000 to 1500 hours of SIC and 2000 of military rotary?

havick206
08-08-2019, 07:25 AM
Let me start by saying I'm super junior to all of this. So much so I'm still under Army contract. That being said...

The wife and I are looking at making Australia our home after my Army
career. The plan for now is to UQR, get hired with a regional, bank some 121 time, apply to Australian companies. I understand they do SO positions but no military type RTP like US carriers.

I considered applying for an SO position right off, but I want some 121 time as a fallback.

My question is, will I need to bank 1000 to 1500 hours of time as a captain (PIC) in a regional in the US before I apply or will I be competitive with 1000 to 1500 hours of SIC and 2000 of military rotary?

How do you plan on having the right to work in Australia? Do you have residency or citizenship there yet?

Airline jobs in Australia are far more competitive than the USA.

captjns
08-08-2019, 05:15 PM
Let me start by saying I'm super junior to all of this. So much so I'm still under Army contract. That being said...

The wife and I are looking at making Australia our home after my Army
career. The plan for now is to UQR, get hired with a regional, bank some 121 time, apply to Australian companies. I understand they do SO positions but no military type RTP like US carriers.

I considered applying for an SO position right off, but I want some 121 time as a fallback.

My question is, will I need to bank 1000 to 1500 hours of time as a captain (PIC) in a regional in the US before I apply or will I be competitive with 1000 to 1500 hours of SIC and 2000 of military rotary?

Assuming you have a CASA license with type rating holder, youíll be competing with Aussies with similar type rating. The challenge youíll face is earring the right to work in Australia.

With that being said, without trying to discourage you, is the 1,000 to 1,500 and US military time needs to be addressed after you obtain the right to work along with Aussie Airmen Credentials.

In any event... best of luck with your endeavours.

SD3FR8DOG
08-09-2019, 02:51 PM
How do you plan on having the right to work in Australia? Do you have residency or citizenship there yet?

Airline jobs in Australia are far more competitive than the USA.

Way more competitive and out of the two majors youíd only really want to work for Qantas, over the long term.

Back to the competitive part, most people applying for SO jobs would have at least 3-5000 hrs including command time on turbo props.

The grass looks greener but I can say itís definitely not. Australian aviation is extremely anal and quite a painful place to work. Night and day to the US.

havick206
08-10-2019, 07:05 AM
Way more competitive and out of the two majors youíd only really want to work for Qantas, over the long term.

Back to the competitive part, most people applying for SO jobs would have at least 3-5000 hrs including command time on turbo props.

The grass looks greener but I can say itís definitely not. Australian aviation is extremely anal and quite a painful place to work. Night and day to the US.

Yah and the pay sucks in Australia and the contracts nowhere near as strong or no soft pay when comparing Qantas/Virgin to legacy US carriers.

Iím originally from Australia and decided to stay here in the USA because the opportunity and lifestyle (money goes a lot further here) was far better.

Australia has better beaches and surf, and the healthcare system is managed better. Thatís about it.

SD3FR8DOG
08-10-2019, 10:12 PM
Yah and the pay sucks in Australia and the contracts nowhere near as strong or no soft pay when comparing Qantas/Virgin to legacy US carriers.

Iím originally from Australia and decided to stay here in the USA because the opportunity and lifestyle (money goes a lot further here) was far better.

Australia has better beaches and surf, and the healthcare system is managed better. Thatís about it.

Agreed. Feel much the same. I do wish I could raise my kids back in Oz but potentially better off staying stateside.