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View Full Version : Good news around the corner?


N1sync
10-13-2017, 11:16 AM
Whatís this Ďgood newsí everyone is talking about on the FB page? My sources at HQ donít have anything but negativity to spread. Enlighten us...


disco inferno
10-13-2017, 12:38 PM
Whatís this Ďgood newsí everyone is talking about on the FB page? My sources at HQ donít have anything but negativity to spread. Enlighten us...

I just saved 10% on my car insurance.

FreshWater
10-13-2017, 01:16 PM
I just saved 10% on my car insurance.

Is that because you dropped the old one?


CAirBear
10-13-2017, 02:38 PM
Who knows. We are hiring every month. I hit 1 year on Tuesday and will have about 180 below me. Not to shabby at all.

Given the low attrition here, something is up. Thereís no reason to hire as many as we have. I do almost nothing every month on RSV in SFB. I am also on the Bus which helps with that. I believe we only have 4 (maybe 5) planes now in SFB.

If I had to guess, I feel they are hiring so that, once we are done with the transition, the flood gates with new routes and increased utilization is open and ready to go.

LoFly
10-13-2017, 03:07 PM
Who knows. We are hiring every month. I hit 1 year on Tuesday and will have about 180 below me. Not to shabby at all.

Given the low attrition here, something is up. There’s no reason to hire as many as we have. I do almost nothing every month on RSV in SFB. I am also on the Bus which helps with that. I believe we only have 4 (maybe 5) planes now in SFB.

If I had to guess, I feel they are hiring so that, once we are done with the transition, the flood gates with new routes and increased utilization is open and ready to go.

So why not start opening new routes immediately instead of keeping so many reserves unused? Don't get me wrong, I love sitting at home doing nothing and get paid for it :D just curious

9easy
10-14-2017, 03:59 PM
Jude is getting Sun Country ready for us to buy, we're gonna send the MD80s to MSP and move the 737s to Vegas and LAX for Hawaii and Mexico flights.

grnclvrs
10-16-2017, 06:44 AM
Flight specific cost indexes.

CaptainRoryNot
10-16-2017, 04:24 PM
New routes tomorrow

disco inferno
10-16-2017, 04:47 PM
New routes tomorrow
I hope you're right, but I'll believe it when I see it.

G4IND
10-16-2017, 11:05 PM
New routes tomorrow
Is VPS included?

G4IND
10-20-2017, 02:09 PM
New routes tomorrow

Looks like the IND base will see a lot more flying and routes added. Just heard IND is moving F9 to another concourse to free up space for expansion. Can anyone else confirm this?

CAirBear
10-20-2017, 02:41 PM
Looks like the IND base will see a lot more flying and routes added. Just heard IND is moving F9 to another concourse to free up space for expansion. Can anyone else confirm this?

Where do we fly out of IND now? Is it just the FL markets or are they going out west as well? Thanks

Flyonwall
10-20-2017, 05:34 PM
Where do we fly out of IND now? Is it just the FL markets or are they going out west as well? Thanks

I thought I heard that Sun Country was supposed to Start flying from out that way. Ya'll buying them? Have a few friends over there that are wondering what the hecks going on and I want to heckle them - :)

G4IND
10-20-2017, 06:53 PM
Where do we fly out of IND now? Is it just the FL markets or are they going out west as well? Thanks

Yeah, it's mostly FL(VPS, JAX, FLL, SFB, PGD, PIE) and AUS, MYR, SAV, and MSY. With the base coming in, some of the FL routes are going daily and 2x daily on Saturdays during spring. LAS and AZA are currently the only western routes for now, but I expect that to change once the new routes are announced.

G4IND
10-20-2017, 06:59 PM
I thought I heard that Sun Country was supposed to Start flying from out that way. Ya'll buying them? Have a few friends over there that are wondering what the hecks going on and I want to heckle them - :)

Yep, they even have publically stated their interest in opening up routes out of CVG and IND. So, we will see what happens a buyout is definitely not out of the question....

Flyonwall
10-20-2017, 07:12 PM
Yep, they even have publically stated their interest in opening up routes out of CVG and IND. So, we will see what happens a buyout is definitely not out of the question....

Your full of good information :) Thanks for sharing what you know.

disco inferno
10-21-2017, 08:19 AM
Yeah, it's mostly FL(VPS, JAX, FLL, SFB, PGD, PIE) and AUS, MYR, SAV, and MSY. With the base coming in, some of the FL routes are going daily and 2x daily on Saturdays during spring. LAS and AZA are currently the only western routes for now, but I expect that to change once the new routes are announced.
What a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. There is nothing to indicate anything you say is true. You don't even work here. My guess is you and Flyonwall have the same IP address.

tyler durden
10-21-2017, 08:35 AM
If I had a dime for every shiny new jet/merger/buyout rumor that gets circulated:rolleyes:

Diversion to keep pilots from running off to greener (major) pastures? The President's Executive Order to recall 1000 retired AF pilots will likely cause even Legacy hiring departments serious concern. Tip of the iceberg?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/

How many of these 1000 were already hired and trained at the majors? Just spitballing' but if you divide even half that number of losses it's a huge hole to fill. Legacy hiring is already in full swing presumably due to shortage fears and hoarding the rapidly dwindling numbers left out there. This will probably stoke the fears even more.

sjflyer
10-21-2017, 10:19 AM
If I had a dime for every shiny new jet/merger/buyout rumor that gets circulated:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/

How many of these 1000 were already hired and trained at the majors? Just spitballing' but if you divide even half that number of losses it's a huge hole to fill. Legacy hiring is already in full swing presumably due to shortage fears and hoarding the rapidly dwindling numbers left out there. This will probably stoke the fears even more.

The Executive order is only an authorization and one more tool in the AF maning tool kit. Just like stop loss and many other retention management programs. The AF is currently only going to recall 25 pilots to fill non flying staff billets. I doubt that many legacy pilots would take a severe pay cut to work for 50 percent of their military pay flying a desk. They already get 50 percent of their military pay from the comfort of their homes.

hyde
10-21-2017, 10:25 AM
The Executive order is only an authorization and one more tool in the AF maning tool kit. Just like stop loss and many other retention management programs. The AF is currently only going to recall 25 pilots to fill non flying staff billets. I doubt that many legacy pilots would take a severe pay cut to work for 50 percent of their military pay flying a desk. They already get 50 percent of their military pay from the comfort of their homes.

This is very true. I don't know many guys that would go back including myself. Not gonna be many takers unless they roll out a really big bonus to sweeten the deal

Flyonwall
10-21-2017, 11:09 AM
What a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. There is nothing to indicate anything you say is true. You don't even work here. My guess is you and Flyonwall have the same IP address.

That's actually really funny if that was true!

G4IND
10-21-2017, 12:40 PM
What a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. There is nothing to indicate anything you say is true. You don't even work here. My guess is you and Flyonwall have the same IP address.

I have no idea who Flyonwall is unfortunately, but most of what I said is information available to the public.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/65919-gate-change-ahead-for-frontier-airlines-in-indianapolis
"The Indianapolis International Airport says it plans to move tenant Frontier Airlines to a new spot to accommodate growth in overall airline activity, particularly from Allegiant Travel Co"

"Allegiant announced its plans to open a $40 million aircraft base at the Indianapolis airport, to begin operations in early 2018. The Las Vegas-based airline said the base will house two Airbus aircraft and allow it to offer more routes from Indianapolis in the future."

Allegiant Base Could Bring New Flights - Inside INdiana Business (http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/36037464/breaking-allegiant-planning-40m-indy-hub)
"Having a base in Indianapolis will further increase the efficiency of our operations and better position us for even more growth in the near future"

"We will be back here(IND) by the end of the year"-referring to announcement of new routes

Big changes coming at Sun Country: Travel Weekly (http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Big-changes-coming-at-Sun-Country)
"Bricker said the carrier would add routes to its some of its existing warm-weather destinations from other midsized Midwest origins, such as Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis"

tyler durden
10-21-2017, 12:46 PM
This is very true. I don't know many guys that would go back including myself. Not gonna be many takers unless they roll out a really big bonus to sweeten the deal

Time will tell. Plenty of 'kernels' out there hating reserve, disillusioned about the crappy overnights, making proby pay, jerking gear for kids half their age and thinking they deserve the left seat. Why not Go back on active duty, making O-5/O-6 pay while their seniority number climbs and accords them captain upgrade upon return. 25% added to their mil retirement...maybe a promotion to full colon-al. Don't have numbers but I know guys that have done the mil leave deal over the years and raved about it. Sure there's plenty of em out there.

Who knows, whatever the take rate, I suspect this will rattle HR departments. I'm sure they too suspect the pot will sweeten if the military doesn't get the numbers they're shooting for.

tyler durden
10-21-2017, 02:04 PM
Got a live one already! LOL

From the APC thread on this very topic:

"I'd actually consider volunteering, if they promoted me right now to O5 and provided a $100k per year bonus. And I'd even fly a desk and be productive (unlike my comments above, if they don't offer a bonus & promotion)."

Many more like him out there, I suspect.

hyde
10-21-2017, 10:17 PM
Got a live one already! LOL

From the APC thread on this very topic:

"I'd actually consider volunteering, if they promoted me right now to O5 and provided a $100k per year bonus. And I'd even fly a desk and be productive (unlike my comments above, if they don't offer a bonus & promotion)."

Many more like him out there, I suspect.

Wonder why he didn't get promoted to O-5 and who he currently flies for. Retired major flying for skywest...i could see that...there's 1...999 more to go

Jetflight77
10-21-2017, 11:30 PM
Greetings everyone,

Can anyone pls tell me as to how long is the current upgrade to Capt at Allegiant? Specially with all the MD80 folks transferring to the AB. Thank you.

Jet

j3cub
10-22-2017, 03:33 AM
Greetings everyone,

Can anyone pls tell me as to how long is the current upgrade to Capt at Allegiant? Specially with all the MD80 folks transferring to the AB. Thank you.

Jet


6 years......

jetliner1526
10-22-2017, 06:38 AM
Looks like the IND base will see a lot more flying and routes added. Just heard IND is moving F9 to another concourse to free up space for expansion. Can anyone else confirm this?

https://www.ibj.com/articles/65919-gate-change-ahead-for-frontier-airlines-in-indianapolis

Gate change ahead for Frontier Airlines in Indianapolis
The Indianapolis International Airport says it plans to move tenant Frontier Airlines to a new spot to accommodate growth in overall airline activity, particularly from Allegiant Travel Co.

Frontier, a low-cost carrier based in Denver, operates from the airportís Concourse B, along with Alaska Airlines, Allegiant, American Airlines, OneJet and Southwest Airlines.

By January, the airport will move Frontier and its one passenger gate to Concourse A, which houses Air Canada, Delta Airlines and United Airlines.

In support of these plans, the Indianapolis Airport Authorityís board of directors on Friday awarded a $149,311 contract to Indianapolis-based Dallman Contractors LLC.

Dallman will build office and operations space for Frontier in Concourse A, in an unfinished area below the passenger level.

Construction will begin immediately and should be complete by January.

story continues below

Eric Anderson, the airportís property director, said the move is being prompted by growth in flights and passenger activity. From January to August, 2.9 million passengers boarded a flight in Indianapolis, up 2.8 percent from the same period in 2016.

ďSome of this is in anticipation of growth; some of it is because of (previous) growth,Ē Anderson told IBJ. ďItís our job to get ahead of them and not to have a bottleneck.Ē

Allegiant in particular has seen growth in its Indianapolis operations, Anderson said. During the first eight months of this year, 130,799 passengers boarded Allegiant aircraft in Indianapolis. Thatís up from 123,662 during the same period in 2016 and 75,754 during that period in 2015. Allegiant began operating at the Indianapolis airport in February 2015.

In August, Allegiant announced its plans to open a $40 million aircraft base at the Indianapolis airport, to begin operations in early 2018. The Las Vegas-based airline said the base will house two Airbus aircraft and allow it to offer more routes from Indianapolis in the future.

Moving Frontier should also help balance activity at the airport. In August, 62 percent of boardings took place in Concourse B and 38 percent were in Concourse A.

This is the first time since the terminalís opening in 2008 that the airport has moved the location of one of its airline tenants, Anderson said.

G4IND
10-22-2017, 08:18 AM
https://www.ibj.com/articles/65919-gate-change-ahead-for-frontier-airlines-in-indianapolis

Gate change ahead for Frontier Airlines in Indianapolis
The Indianapolis International Airport says it plans to move tenant Frontier Airlines to a new spot to accommodate growth in overall airline activity, particularly from Allegiant Travel Co.

Frontier, a low-cost carrier based in Denver, operates from the airportís Concourse B, along with Alaska Airlines, Allegiant, American Airlines, OneJet and Southwest Airlines.

By January, the airport will move Frontier and its one passenger gate to Concourse A, which houses Air Canada, Delta Airlines and United Airlines.

In support of these plans, the Indianapolis Airport Authorityís board of directors on Friday awarded a $149,311 contract to Indianapolis-based Dallman Contractors LLC.

Dallman will build office and operations space for Frontier in Concourse A, in an unfinished area below the passenger level.

Construction will begin immediately and should be complete by January.

story continues below

Eric Anderson, the airportís property director, said the move is being prompted by growth in flights and passenger activity. From January to August, 2.9 million passengers boarded a flight in Indianapolis, up 2.8 percent from the same period in 2016.

ďSome of this is in anticipation of growth; some of it is because of (previous) growth,Ē Anderson told IBJ. ďItís our job to get ahead of them and not to have a bottleneck.Ē

Allegiant in particular has seen growth in its Indianapolis operations, Anderson said. During the first eight months of this year, 130,799 passengers boarded Allegiant aircraft in Indianapolis. Thatís up from 123,662 during the same period in 2016 and 75,754 during that period in 2015. Allegiant began operating at the Indianapolis airport in February 2015.

In August, Allegiant announced its plans to open a $40 million aircraft base at the Indianapolis airport, to begin operations in early 2018. The Las Vegas-based airline said the base will house two Airbus aircraft and allow it to offer more routes from Indianapolis in the future.

Moving Frontier should also help balance activity at the airport. In August, 62 percent of boardings took place in Concourse B and 38 percent were in Concourse A.

This is the first time since the terminalís opening in 2008 that the airport has moved the location of one of its airline tenants, Anderson said.

Yep very interesting indeed :D

tyler durden
10-22-2017, 09:13 AM
Wonder why he didn't get promoted to O-5 and who he currently flies for. Retired major flying for skywest...i could see that...there's 1...999 more to go

Yes, Skywest, of course.

No way the Legacies and Majors would ever hire military guys. :rolleyes:

The point to be made here is not about 0-4 vs. O-5, or whether this or that guy will take it, but the big picture: the DOD is recalling.

Legacy and Major airline Management teams, among others, already at hiring capacity to keep up with retirements and growth, are looking at worst case scenarios. What is our exposure? If the military doesn't get their numbers, will they sweeten the pot till they do? Will they take more later? Stop Loss guys in the pipeline? Use/ recall reserves on our seniority list? IRR back to active, who knows, but in the eyes of airline management, this announcement likely just took matters to a different level.

P.s.Silver oak leafs for silver wings isn't as automatic as it used to be. Guys who opt to avoid 'career-broadening' staff tours, PME, Masters and a$$ kissing to stay in cockpits are routinely passed over and retire as O-4s. Honorably discharged, current and medically qualified, they get their choice of airlines lined up to hire them. whatever the case, airlines don't care whether pilots retired as O-5 or O-4.

tyler durden
10-22-2017, 10:27 AM
With the unique nature of our operation, being home every night, etc., I don't believe Allegiant will be hit quite as hard as other middle tier airlines. But sooner or later, this will impact everyone. Some more than others. Airlines like republic, were practically decimated, their stock becoming worthless, due to pilot shortages and and inability to service their routes and customers. It has generally been said that major and legacy airlines will never have a problem recruiting. That maybe true, perhaps to a lesser extent, but airlines like frontier, Spirit, possibly even JetBlue, will probably begin to see unsustainable attrition.

Airline executives have been Poopoo'ing this eventuality for years. Now they are lobbying Congress to drop/amnend the 1500 hour ATP requirement, hoping that will alleviate the situation. Other measures, or Band-Aids, will include increasing the retirement age to 67.

Whether any or all of this will pass, who knows. Suffice to say pilots are finally in a sellers market. Not sure for how long, so we should take advantage while we can. I don't believe our contract would have been nearly as lucrative had market forces been different.

akulahunter
10-23-2017, 07:01 PM
So whats up with these rumors now?

I have heard from multiple people in the last few days that:

1) MG has been going into new hire classes saying that something big is coming "soon."
2) That we are about to announce A330s.

Are these just FL rumors or has anyone else heard this stuff?

disco inferno
10-23-2017, 07:36 PM
So whats up with these rumors now?

I have heard from multiple people in the last few days that:

1) MG has been going into new hire classes saying that something big is coming "soon."
2) That we are about to announce A330s.

Are these just FL rumors or has anyone else heard this stuff?
It's going to be Air Berlin 330's. Rumor is they will be placed in EWR for ULCC international flying.

CaptainRoryNot
10-23-2017, 08:01 PM
New routes tomorrow

Beretta01
10-23-2017, 08:06 PM
New routes tomorrow

I heard there's a new class drop tomorrow too

disco inferno
10-23-2017, 08:10 PM
I heard there's a new class drop tomorrow too
Wrong. They will be announcing a new base in AUS.

Beretta01
10-23-2017, 08:16 PM
Wrong. They will be announcing a new base in AUS.

Nope, new pref bidding software drop is tomorrow.

disco inferno
10-23-2017, 08:21 PM
Nope, new pref bidding software drop is tomorrow.
They dropped that already. We're going back to line bidding.

G4IND
10-23-2017, 09:53 PM
New routes tomorrow

Is this a question or a statement? You posted the same thing last monday...

crxpilot
10-24-2017, 12:58 AM
So whats up with these rumors now?

I have heard from multiple people in the last few days that:

1) MG has been going into new hire classes saying that something big is coming "soon."
2) That we are about to announce A330s.

Are these just FL rumors or has anyone else heard this stuff?

Allegiant is joining the interline Cute Pet Contest. Now you can have your pets compete against other airline employees.

JustWatching
10-24-2017, 06:48 AM
Allegiant is joining the interline Cute Pet Contest. Now you can have your pets compete against other airline employees.

It’s the cutest pet rock contest now. Too much liability using real pets.

As to the real news, it’s that Friday’s at HQ are now going to be FROYO Friday’s.

disco inferno
10-24-2017, 07:04 AM
Itís the cutest pet rock contest now. Too much liability using real pets.


My money is on "Chance".

Beretta01
10-24-2017, 11:01 AM
Quadona is going on vacation, you heard it here first.

hyde
10-24-2017, 01:46 PM
Quadona is going on vacation, you heard it here first.

I knew it was going to be big! Way to go Quadona! Super dooper!

LoFly
10-30-2017, 01:15 PM
Are we gonna get any AirBerlin AB or they all gone already?

CaptainRoryNot
10-30-2017, 03:43 PM
New routes tomorrow

G4IND
10-30-2017, 04:05 PM
New routes tomorrow

At this point I can't help but laugh, I think you have posted this 3-4 weeks in a row....

jshank83
10-30-2017, 06:56 PM
At this point I can't help but laugh, I think you have posted this 3-4 weeks in a row....

I guess eventually he has to be right.

disco inferno
10-30-2017, 08:45 PM
We're getting A330's for trans Atlantic flying out of EWR.

Jetflight77
10-30-2017, 09:02 PM
Low cost Trans Atlantic would be very competitive. Specially with all the low cost European carriers operating on that route. If that's really Allegiant's plans, I wish them the best.

Jet

akulahunter
10-31-2017, 05:36 AM
I think CaptRory's odds go up by posting the day before the town hall, but still a low average.

If he/she posts that every day, I'm betting he'll be right at least 6 times in the next 12 months.

ecam
10-31-2017, 06:11 AM
Low cost Trans Atlantic would be very competitive. Specially with all the low cost European carriers operating on that route. If that's really Allegiant's plans, I wish them the best.

Jet

Well, FWIW, that's what everyone has said every time Allegiant has made a bold move. And we have always made money anyhow.

ecam
10-31-2017, 06:12 AM
Big announcement! Record profit sharing of 6.9% this quarter! And taking deposits for Maury World!

disco inferno
10-31-2017, 09:26 AM
Boom!!!
We're getting 330's!!

CaptainRoryNot
10-31-2017, 09:59 AM
We're getting A330's for trans Atlantic flying out of EWR.

Boom! New routes

CAirBear
10-31-2017, 10:07 AM
Boom!!!
We're getting 330's!!

Is this for real?

disco inferno
10-31-2017, 10:08 AM
Is this for real?

It's on the internet isn't it?

CAirBear
10-31-2017, 10:10 AM
It's on the internet isn't it?

I wasnít able to listen to the Town Hall therefore I have no idea at the moment. Anyone care to highlight the main points?

ecam
10-31-2017, 10:28 AM
I wasnít able to listen to the Town Hall therefore I have no idea at the moment. Anyone care to highlight the main points?

No 330s
No 321s
No Hawaii
No AUS
Maybe VPS
No mergers
Can't comment on mergers
Yoga classes at HQ canceled

CAirBear
10-31-2017, 10:34 AM
No 330s
No 321s
No Hawaii
No AUS
Maybe VPS
No mergers
Can't comment on mergers
Yoga classes at HQ canceled

Thanks a lot! Appreciate it.

Beretta01
10-31-2017, 11:06 AM
No mergers
Can't comment on mergers

Iím usually not much of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to these merger rumors but that couple minutes of discussion with Maury and Redmond was very...strange...to say the least. I get the impression that there have definitely been some backchannel discussions(impossible to know how serious, of course).

jshank83
11-06-2017, 05:42 AM
New routes tomorrow...


disclaimer: I have no knowledge of this I just want to post it before CaptianRory does

ecam
11-06-2017, 05:54 AM
Iím usually not much of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to these merger rumors but that couple minutes of discussion with Maury and Redmond was very...strange...to say the least. I get the impression that there have definitely been some backchannel discussions(impossible to know how serious, of course).

Makes me wonder who is actually in charge these days. Very strange indeed.

disco inferno
11-06-2017, 07:31 AM
New routes tomorrow...


disclaimer: I have no knowledge of this I just want to post it before CaptianRory does
330's for trans Altantic flying to be announced.

N1sync
11-06-2017, 09:08 AM
FA yesterday told me in recurrent they mentioned a bunch of new routes including some long ones like VPS-BLI

grnclvrs
11-06-2017, 11:12 AM
FA yesterday told me in recurrent they mentioned a bunch of new routes including some long ones like VPS-BLI

Yeah. That'll happen. If I was based in BLI I'd be painting my house right now.

G4IND
11-06-2017, 11:13 AM
FA yesterday told me in recurrent they mentioned a bunch of new routes including some long ones like VPS-BLI

Wow! that's a duesy of flight, did the FA mention when it would be announced?

tailendcharlie
11-06-2017, 04:56 PM
FA yesterday told me in recurrent they mentioned a bunch of new routes including some long ones like VPS-BLI

And we all know how reliable FA rumors are......

tailendcharlie
11-06-2017, 05:43 PM
I mean it makes a whole lotta sense for Vancouver-ites to take a 5-hour flight to some redneck beach in the middle of nowhere when SoCal is 2.5 hours away....

CAirBear
11-06-2017, 06:51 PM
I mean it makes a whole lotta sense for Vancouver-ites to take a 5-hour flight to some redneck beach in the middle of nowhere when SoCal is 2.5 hours away....

LOL! So true

N1sync
11-06-2017, 07:12 PM
LOL! So true

It's a FA so grain of salt indeed.. however, socal beaches suck! They're cold and don't have delicate white sand. Destin probably has the nicest beaches in the US and I'm sure it would be a draw for Canadians if we took that Beach bubble up there in the middle of winter like we did when we opened the EWR-VPS flight.

tailendcharlie
11-06-2017, 09:16 PM
It's a FA so grain of salt indeed.. however, socal beaches suck! They're cold and don't have delicate white sand. Destin probably has the nicest beaches in the US and I'm sure it would be a draw for Canadians if we took that Beach bubble up there in the middle of winter like we did when we opened the EWR-VPS flight.

If Socal beaches arne't good enoigh they go to Cabo. Not many are gonna be interestrd in the east coast.

ecam
11-07-2017, 06:25 AM
It's a FA so grain of salt indeed.. however, socal beaches suck! They're cold and don't have delicate white sand. Destin probably has the nicest beaches in the US and I'm sure it would be a draw for Canadians if we took that Beach bubble up there in the middle of winter like we did when we opened the EWR-VPS flight.

Since overnights have only been announced involving LAX and CVG, I'm calling BS on this one. What is that, about 5 hours eastbound and 6 westbound? Might as well go back to Hawaii. Also doubtful that Vancouver Canadians ($$$) are interested in the Redneck Riviera. They like us for the cheap direct flights to Arizona and California. Why would they want to fly 5 hours in a cramped cabin to sit on a beach, drink Bud heavy, eat at expensive, low quality, touristy restaurants, and listen to a bunch of Alabama rednecks screaming "Roll Tide Roll, Yeehaw" to the game on TV blaring above their table? You can't even go to the beach there in the winter, which is when they all want to leave. It's in the 50s-60s in the winter there.

Stop listening to FA rumors. Only slightly more unreliable than mechanic rumors.

KC135
11-07-2017, 06:36 AM
Some new growth/routes out of BLI was confirmed last week but the VPS flight seems very unlikey.

disco inferno
11-07-2017, 07:06 AM
Big announcement is delayed until next week.

Coehill
11-07-2017, 08:10 AM
BLI-SJD, BLI-PVR, BLI-MZT even with rouge, westjet, and transat competition would be more likely. We can operate much cheaper even while paying for employee healthcare.

N1sync
11-07-2017, 01:16 PM
BLI-SJD, BLI-PVR, BLI-MZT even with rouge, westjet, and transat competition would be more likely. We can operate much cheaper even while paying for employee healthcare.

No chance without customs up there. VPS is the closest beach after SAN or HNL. IF it happened I'm sure it would be some kind of 2-day pairing of which I'm sure we'll start to see more of in the coming months.

N1sync
11-07-2017, 01:18 PM
Since overnights have only been announced involving LAX and CVG, I'm calling BS on this one. What is that, about 5 hours eastbound and 6 westbound? Might as well go back to Hawaii. Also doubtful that Vancouver Canadians ($$$) are interested in the Redneck Riviera. They like us for the cheap direct flights to Arizona and California. Why would they want to fly 5 hours in a cramped cabin to sit on a beach, drink Bud heavy, eat at expensive, low quality, touristy restaurants, and listen to a bunch of Alabama rednecks screaming "Roll Tide Roll, Yeehaw" to the game on TV blaring above their table? You can't even go to the beach there in the winter, which is when they all want to leave. It's in the 50s-60s in the winter there.

Stop listening to FA rumors. Only slightly more unreliable than mechanic rumors.

Is it racist to stereotype white people like this?

Machaca
11-07-2017, 02:12 PM
Is it racist to stereotype white people like this?

It's never racist to impugn white people...all SJWs know this.

grnclvrs
11-07-2017, 02:57 PM
Since overnights have only been announced involving LAX and CVG, I'm calling BS on this one. What is that, about 5 hours eastbound and 6 westbound? Might as well go back to Hawaii. Also doubtful that Vancouver Canadians ($$$) are interested in the Redneck Riviera. They like us for the cheap direct flights to Arizona and California. Why would they want to fly 5 hours in a cramped cabin to sit on a beach, drink Bud heavy, eat at expensive, low quality, touristy restaurants, and listen to a bunch of Alabama rednecks screaming "Roll Tide Roll, Yeehaw" to the game on TV blaring above their table? You can't even go to the beach there in the winter, which is when they all want to leave. It's in the 50s-60s in the winter there.

Stop listening to FA rumors. Only slightly more unreliable than mechanic rumors.

You should probably google Route 30A.

akulahunter
11-07-2017, 07:44 PM
Is it racist to stereotype white people like this?

Yes, of course...

CaptainRoryNot
11-09-2017, 05:47 PM
http://www.barrons.com/articles/airlines-private-equitys-next-target-1503339016

akulahunter
11-09-2017, 08:53 PM
http://www.barrons.com/articles/airlines-private-equitys-next-target-1503339016

Have to sign in to see the article...

ecam
11-10-2017, 10:21 AM
http://www.barrons.com/articles/airlines-private-equitys-next-target-1503339016

Oh Rory, you're killing me! Does this link we can't read talk about the new routes??? :D:D:D

But in all seriousness, I doubt there's a leveraged buyout. Despite management's best efforts to tank the stock price, it's still too high for any serious capital investment company to be interested. They usually buy companies on the verge of bankruptcy. This scenario doesn't even make sense. Why would the shareholders even bother to sell?

N1sync
11-10-2017, 12:32 PM
Oh Rory, you're killing me! Does this link we can't read talk about the new routes??? :D:D:D

But in all seriousness, I doubt there's a leveraged buyout. Despite management's best efforts to tank the stock price, it's still too high for any serious capital investment company to be interested. They usually buy companies on the verge of bankruptcy. This scenario doesn't even make sense. Why would the shareholders even bother to sell?

Stock price is meaningless, it's all about market cap. If private equity is looking at us as an organizational disaster that they can clean up and flip real quick... What's $3bil? Not a lot if u can add value and flip it a year or two later for $5-6bil.

I feel a new HGTV show coming on.. 'flip this airline'

akulahunter
11-10-2017, 07:27 PM
Oh Rory, you're killing me! Does this link we can't read talk about the new routes??? :D:D:D

But in all seriousness, I doubt there's a leveraged buyout. Despite management's best efforts to tank the stock price, it's still too high for any serious capital investment company to be interested. They usually buy companies on the verge of bankruptcy. This scenario doesn't even make sense. Why would the shareholders even bother to sell?

Well, if Allegiant wanted to do Hotels/Condos... Spinning off and selling the airline portion would be TONS cheaper than having to buy the stock of Allegiant Travel as a whole company. Just sayin'.

tom11011
11-11-2017, 05:22 PM
Big announcement Monday afternoon.

sqwkvfr
11-11-2017, 07:45 PM
Well, if Allegiant wanted to do Hotels/Condos... Spinning off and selling the airline portion would be TONS cheaper than having to buy the stock of Allegiant Travel as a whole company. Just sayin'.

Your thoughts are not out of line. I’ve had a suspicion that this Sunseeker resort thing is a mechanism through which certain members of senior management can shed the airline and find themselves fully owning the resort for pennies on the dollar.

That still leaves the issue of this beheamouth in the middle of nowhere Florida finding a way to survive without some sort of business partnership, association or draw to make it successful. Perhaps they already have a buyer in mind who can provide the synergies required to make it work.

akulahunter
11-11-2017, 08:46 PM
Big announcement Monday afternoon.

Is it new routes?

akulahunter
11-11-2017, 08:48 PM
Your thoughts are not out of line. Iíve had a suspicion that this Sunseeker resort thing is a mechanism through which certain members of senior management can shed the airline and find themselves fully owning the resort for pennies on the dollar.

That still leaves the issue of this beheamouth in the middle of nowhere Florida finding a way to survive without some sort of business partnership, association or draw to make it successful. Perhaps they already have a buyer in mind who can provide the synergies required to make it work.

I dunno, I haven't been here very long (relatively), but they seem to have made pretty solid business decisions so far. I doubt they would spin off the airline side and NOT have a plan for how they are selling and then getting people into those condos.

Beretta01
11-12-2017, 04:04 AM
Big announcement Monday afternoon.

Canít tell if serious or joking... 😂

grnclvrs
11-12-2017, 06:27 AM
That still leaves the issue of this beheamouth in the middle of nowhere

Have you heard of a place called Foxwoods?

ecam
11-12-2017, 08:17 AM
Well, if Allegiant wanted to do Hotels/Condos... Spinning off and selling the airline portion would be TONS cheaper than having to buy the stock of Allegiant Travel as a whole company. Just sayin'.

Your thoughts are not out of line. I’ve had a suspicion that this Sunseeker resort thing is a mechanism through which certain members of senior management can shed the airline and find themselves fully owning the resort for pennies on the dollar.

That still leaves the issue of this beheamouth in the middle of nowhere Florida finding a way to survive without some sort of business partnership, association or draw to make it successful. Perhaps they already have a buyer in mind who can provide the synergies required to make it work.

I actually agree with these points.

I have been thinking for sometime now that MG must be getting to the point in his life that he wants to cash out his chips and retire. Bringing JR into the company, who only knows a little about airlines from MGM Grand Air, but knows a lot about real estate development and hotel/resort management should have been a signal to everyone that the company was moving in that direction. In fact, last year, rumors were rampant that we were "buying a hotel" and most pilots poo-pooh'd that. Then came Sunseeker. For which JR covertly bought the land from 20 different owners, then transferred it to the company. And they are building a luxury resort. In Port Charlotte? None of it really makes sense, but neither did another casino charter airline flying between FAT and LAS when this place was first started. Then we suddenly and quietly announce the MD retirements moved up a year? And we seem to have stopped/slowed hiring to facilitate that. And other goals?

My theory is that they are indeed going to separate the airline from the travel company and continue forward with the travel company, most likely run by JR. MG will still be a major stock holder and financier, probably a board member. I said they were going to separate them last year when everything involving the airline was realigned under Jude. I also said that the circumstances under Jude's sudden departure were odd. MG seemed congenial and almost left the door open for him to come back. Strange reaction for someone who suddenly dropped him for a better offer. I don't think Jude is done with allegiant. I see the airline merging with another airline, and keeping the allegiant name. Sun Country seems to be the best contender. Jude will run that new airline. The travel company will be renamed Sunseeker Travel and will have guaranteed cheap seats on allegiant to fill its resorts and vacation packages. Kind of like the Ichan TWA deal. We will focus on airlining and they will focus on vacation and resort packages. I see other resorts being built elsewhere if PGD is successful too.

Or I could just be an old man out of my gourd. Time will tell over the next year.

labbats
11-12-2017, 11:01 AM
So the best course of action is to merge with a pure 737 carrier that is much smaller than us? What does that accomplish? Even if we traded away all the 737s they own we are left with a bunch of pilots who mainly live in Minnesota. All of which will require expensive type ratings and full courses to switch to Airbus.

Much more likely another airline saw the looming shortage of pilots and are seeing a short transition course for almost 900 Airbus pilots on a route structure that not only makes money but also will sail through government approval.

LoFly
11-12-2017, 01:13 PM
you both make good points, thanks for sharing the ideas.

CaptainRoryNot
11-12-2017, 06:44 PM
Big announcement Monday afternoon.

New routes tomorrow?

sqwkvfr
11-12-2017, 06:58 PM
Have you heard of a place called Foxwoods?

Not until you mentioned it, but it appears that they’re an Indian Casino...they have a draw.

akulahunter
11-12-2017, 10:23 PM
New routes tomorrow?

I asked that already.. lol

ecam
11-13-2017, 07:37 AM
So the best course of action is to merge with a pure 737 carrier that is much smaller than us? What does that accomplish? Even if we traded away all the 737s they own we are left with a bunch of pilots who mainly live in Minnesota. All of which will require expensive type ratings and full courses to switch to Airbus.

Much more likely another airline saw the looming shortage of pilots and are seeing a short transition course for almost 900 Airbus pilots on a route structure that not only makes money but also will sail through government approval.

You've got to think outside the box. We keep the 737s. Why wouldn't we? At the beginning of this year we flew 3 types. I would guess some MSP 737 pilots would be repositioned throughout the system, particularly the west coast (back to Hawaii). We get an international operation and reservations system. Airbi fly to Mexico and the Caribbean. Our management has expressed desire to expand south, but hasn't been able to make it happen for several reasons.

I don't see any of the big 3 legacy carriers buying us. To Delta we are just a fly on the window screen. They are a solid international carrier who cares way more about A330s/350s than A320s. They see their whole domestic network as feed. They don't need us for feed with all of their small narrow body airplanes coming. Wouldn't merge with an airline considered "less" than them.
American is still a basket case from their mergers. I don't see them taking on another airline with a wacky route structure that doesn't integrate with theirs at all. Doug Parker loves money, and we practically print it, but taking on 12 new hubs, and whole bunch of new destinations they don't fly to at all, and tackling another integration? I doubt it.
United has expressed a need for used Airbi, and of course Levi is there. They have played with basic coach and thinner routes. They are committed to growing their domestic network and can't get the planes they need. However, like the others, we would integrate poorly with their route network, and their management is a disaster. It seems the Big Plan over there changes on a weekly basis. They still haven't achieved synergy from the CAL merger. Would the Board even authorize another merger? The only way I could see that merger scenario happening is if they just bought the planes. That would require Allegiant air shutting down, which isn't going to happen. We are a publicly held company, and you can't just tank billions of investor dollars and stay out of jail.

No, I think Sun Country offers us the best synergy. It would be easy to integrate since they basically do the same thing we do. We just open a new base or two. And to add to the fire, people I know over there, both flight crew and management are saying very weird things are happening. They are all certain a merger/buyout is coming soon. We shall see.

labbats
11-13-2017, 08:34 AM
They are saying that because Sun Country is for sale.

Mergers are usually bad for pilot groups. No need to wish one for us.

I just donít see anything Sun Country offers us. Last phone call said that management did look at their books but didnít see anything they liked.

But hey I am just speaking opinions nothing more.

ecam
11-13-2017, 08:52 AM
They are saying that because Sun Country is for sale.

Mergers are usually bad for pilot groups. No need to wish one for us.

I just don’t see anything Sun Country offers us. Last phone call said that management did look at their books but didn’t see anything they liked.

But hey I am just speaking opinions nothing more.

SCA would offer us an international opportunity and an ETOPs certificate we don't have. I don't think a merger would be bad since most of our bases are sheltered. We aren't as vulnerable to seniority as other airlines are. And they only have ~350 pilots.

People over there are talking because Jude has made major changes in a short period of time. and most of them align with what we have and do. My opinion (just an educated opinion) is that he's prepping them for a merger with us.

Time will tell. I think we will hear something before year's end.

flyingdutchman1
11-13-2017, 09:14 AM
SCA would offer us an international opportunity and an ETOPs certificate we don't have. I don't think a merger would be bad since most of our bases are sheltered. We aren't as vulnerable to seniority as other airlines are. And they only have ~350 pilots.

People over there are talking because Jude has made major changes in a short period of time. and most of them align with what we have and do. My opinion (just an educated opinion) is that he's prepping them for a merger with us.

Time will tell. I think we will hear something before year's end.

Sun Country hired a Jude for one reason, to make them as much money as possible. Jude knows only one way to make a ton of money and that happens to be the same way Allegiant does things. I donít think it has to do with him wanting to sell them to Allegiant. It has more to do with that is all he knows. Donít make more out of things than they are.

Releasemaster
11-13-2017, 12:40 PM
Big announcement Monday afternoon.

If you consider announcing the company Christmas parties big news, then that was today's announcement.

Beans
11-13-2017, 06:54 PM
If you consider announcing the company Christmas parties big news, then that was today's announcement.

More like, if you consider a hey come to the Christmas party to make up for below par wages and work rules, great news then count me in.

akulahunter
11-13-2017, 07:15 PM
And to add to the fire, people I know over there, both flight crew and management are saying very weird things are happening. They are all certain a merger/buyout is coming soon. We shall see.

I concur with labbats, EVERYONE there should be talking about being bought... They hired a firm to SELL the airline.

Not saying that we wouldn't buy them or aren't in the running, but the last (completely unsubstantiated) rumor I heard was that they were asking WAY too much.

KC135
11-13-2017, 09:38 PM
More like, if you consider a hey come to the Christmas party to make up for below par wages and work rules, great news then count me in.

Where do you work at Beans? Rates were somewhat close to average when signed, topped out higher than DAL and SWA at the time.

crxpilot
11-14-2017, 06:22 AM
From seeking Alpha:


Pledge Allegiant

Nov. 13, 2017 4:10 PM ET|2 comments| About: Allegiant Travel Company (ALGT)
Roger Gaebel
Roger Gaebel
Long only, value, bonds, growth at reasonable price

(3 followers)
Summary

Insider buying at Allegiant Travel.

Significant changes in strategy underway.

Key investor presentation later this month.

All point toward buying opportunity for retail investors.

Introduction

A few weeks ago, the President and Director of Allegiant Travel (ALGT), John Redmond, purchased 11,000 shares of his company's stock for about $1.5M. The news led me to flip through the pages of my favorite investment books to find out what Mr. Redmond's purchase may mean for ordinary investors.

I found it on page 127 of Jeeva Ramaswamy's "Creating a Portfolio Like Warren Buffett"Ě, (John Wiley & Sons, 2012). The author advises investors to examine closely insider buying activity because no one knows the company better than an insider. He goes on to say that insiders buy when they feel the stock is undervalued or is fairly valued, but the company's prospects are going to improve significantly.

In this article, I'll explore which of the two it might be and recommend whether to take the pledge as Mr. Redmond has done.

Business Description

Founded in 1997 and with an IPO in 2006, Allegiant is an ultra-low-cost carrier (ULLC) providing scheduled air transportation on limited-frequency flights between under-served cities and popular leisure destinations. As of October 2017, the company operates 89 jet aircraft along 405 routes that serve 119 cities.

The company employs about 3,700 people of which about 50% are unionized pilots and flight attendants. ALGT also sells hotel rooms and rental cars to its passengers and provides an unspecified number of charter flights all of which are reported under one segment.

Industry Overview and ALGT's Competitive Positioning

The airline industry is highly competitive, marked by high fixed costs and low profit margins. Passenger demand and fare levels have historically been influenced by a wide variety of factors which include the health of the economy, industry capacity, pricing actions among competitors, and fuel prices. Regarding the latter, the cost of fuel accounted for approximately 19.2% of total operating expenses of airlines in 2016, while in 2015, that cost accounted for 27.3%, according to the International Air Transport Association. While many airlines hedge fuel costs, ALGT has not done so for several years.

While customers value quality service and on-time performance, air travel is essentially a commodity with travelers, particularly leisure travelers, making decisions based primarily on price.

According to filings, Allegiant competes with US legacy airlines and their affiliated regional carrier, low cost carriers like JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) as well as other ULCCs such as Spirit Airlines (NASDAQ:SAVE). It competes indirectly with Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV).

ALGT tries to position itself among its competitors through a four-pronged strategy. First, it focuses exclusively on leisure travelers. Second, it attracts those travelers by connecting under-served cities (e.g. Bismarck, ND, Grand Island, NE) with popular vacation places (e.g. Las Vegas, Arizona, Florida) often flying to smaller airports located near vacation hotspots (e.g. Orlando Sanford International Airport, Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport). Thirdly, since it doesn't compete for business travelers, it flies infrequently to and from those destinations as it picks and drops off its passengers every couple of days, often on a seasonal basis. Finally, the airline operates older aircraft than its competitors which are less expensive to purchase.

Financials

ALGT has, pardon the pun, fared well as indicated in Tables 1-3 below. Noteworthy is that its profit margins have been higher than its competitors over the past two years as has adjusted ROE. (To compute ROE adjusted for Financial Engineering: On balance sheet, convert treasury stock to a positive number. Add it to shareholder equity. Then divide net income to new shareholder equity.)

Airline

NI/Sales

Sales/Assets

Assets/Liabilities

ROE

ROE (Adj. for Financial Engineering)

Allegiant

0.16

0.9

3.53

0.51

0.22

Spirit

0.11

0.8

2.26

0.21

0.16

JetBlue

0.11

0.7

2.36

0.20

0.17

Table 1 - 2016 DuPont ROE

Airline

NI/Sales

Sales/Assets

Assets/Liabilities

ROE

ROE (Adj. for Financial Engineering)

Allegiant

0.17

1.0

3.86

0.65

0.27

Spirit

0.15

1.04

2.07

0.32

0.24

JetBlue

0.11

0.78

2.70

0.22

0.19

Table 2 - 2015 DuPont

Airline

NI/Sales

Sales/Assets

Assets/Liabilities

ROE

ROE (Adj for Financial Engineering)

Allegiant

0.08

1.05

4.23

0.34

0.14

Spirit

0.12

1.39

1.60

0.26

0.22

JetBlue

0.07

0.77

3.1

0.16

0.15

Table 3 - 2014 DuPont

Financially, the company is carrying a high debt load. Its debt to equity ratio is 1.78 compared to the industry average of 1.3. Long-term debt to net income over the past 12 months is 5.49. Analysts consider anything above 5.0 as a potential solvency warning flag. On a more positive note, since it buys its aircraft, it incurs no long-term lease obligations.

Turning to airline-specific metrics, load factors for all three airlines are about 85%. As for revenue per available mile (RASM) and cost per available mile (NASDAQ:CASM), ALGT is the middle of the pack with 2016 RASM and % change since 2014. Allegiant is middling too for 2016 CASM although to its credit, the company has been able to drive CASM down 27% since 2014.

Airline

2016 RASM (cents) Higher is better

2016 RASM compared to 2014 (% change)

2016 CASM (cents).¬ Lower is better

2016 CASM compared to 2014 (% change)

Allegiant

10.89

-15

8.02

-27

Spirit

9.11

-23

7.37

-24

Jet Blue

11.21

-6

9.92

-.16

Table 4 - RASM and CASM

The favorable trend in CASM, however, will not likely continue. In their latest quarterly filing, ALGT reported a CASM for the nine-month period that ended on September 30, 2017 of 9.08 cents with salaries up almost 20% compared to a nine-month time frame that ended on September 30, 2016. The salary increase is the result of a collective bargaining agreement with pilots, which went into effect in August 2016, as well as costs associated with a 12.7 percent increase in the number of full-time equivalent employees.

What Does Mr. Redmond See?

This brings us to whether investors should follow Mr. Redmond's lead. Did Mr. Redmond buy because he thinks the company is undervalued? A cursory look at the bottom row of Table 5 below does not appear to bear this out.

Airline

Forward P/E

P/B

P/S

EV/EBITDA

Allegiant

12.9

4.5

1.5

7

Spirit

9.9

1.6

1.0

5.3

JetBlue

10.1

1.5

0.9

4.5

Industry Avg.

12.2

2.9

0.9

unknown

Difference btw ALGT & Industry Avg.

+6%

+55%

+66%

N/A

Table 5 - Relative Valuation ALGT, Peers and Industry

There is, however, a relatively straight forward way to drill down deeper, using P/B, to determine whether ALGT is undervalued and thereby avoid making guesses future sales and earnings. ALGT's book value per share is $29.62. If we assume ALGT is no better or worse than its peers in the largely commoditized industry, then its stock price should be $85.89 ($29.62 x industry P/B average of 2.9). Yet as of this writing, the stock was selling for $127.00 which represents about a 50% premium over a no better, no worse value of $85.89.

Is ALGT that much better? To answer that question, we need to look at ROE. The average industry-wide ROE (not adjusted for financial engineering) from 2014 to 2016 according to csimarket.com was 0.40. ALGT's for the same time frame was 0.50. (Refer back to Tables 1-3.) That means ALGT's ROE was 25% better than the industry as a whole. Based on this information, one could reasonably add that 25% premium to the no better, no worse than price of $85.89 which would bring the price up to $107.36. But even by doing so, the stock still appears to be about 18% overvalued to its current selling price.

So, could it be that he thinks his company is fairly valued at $127.00 and its prospects are even going to improve more? He may be on to something here.

While ALGT has paid relatively bargain prices up front for older aircraft, it has paid higher costs over time to maintain these aircraft, particularly the MD 80 series. Since taking over in late 2016, Redmond has accelerated plans to retire the MDs and transition to an all Airbus (OTCPK:EADSF) fleet. During an October 2017 earnings call, the company stated its intent to complete this strategic change by the end of 2018, almost a full year earlier than previously planned

Aircraft Type & Number

Number as of 9/30/17

Number as of 9/30/16

Number as of 9/30/2015

MD-80/88/83

40

48

51

B-757 (200)

2

4

6

A-319

21

15

7

A-320

26

16

10

Total

89

83

74

Table 6 - ALGT's Changing Fleet

Perhaps what he sees in the transition is a return to 2015 profit margins and asset turnover ratios (Refer back to Table 2) or perhaps even better results. In the airline industry, asset turnover, specifically fixed asset turnover (FATO) (Sales/fixed assets, primarily aircraft) is a closely watched measure of operating performance. As indicated in the table below, ALGT's FATO has been going down year over year, the result of greater changes in the denominator as the company buys more and newer planes. These investments should begin to kick in over the next couple of years with FATO ratios rising.

Year

FATO

TTM

1.22

Ending 12/2016

1.38

12/2015

1.55

12/2014

1.91

Table 7 - ALGT Fixed Asset Turnover (FATO)

But could it be that Redmond, who prior to coming to Allegiant had over 20 years of senior management positions in the hotel and none in the airline industry, sees his company's future earnings coming from something other than air travel? Yes! Redmond envisions ALGT will transport leisure travelers to their vacation destinations and own the destinations as well.

The plan is already unfolding on the Florida Gulf Coast where the company plans to build a 22-acre "Sunseeker" resort with a 75-room hotel, condominiums, bars and restaurants in Port Charlotte. The property, when finished in late 2019 or 2020, will include North America's largest private-resort swimming pool. Looking further ahead, an August 2017 Bloomberg piece citing comments by Mr. Redmond said the Sunseeker property is a bid to begin managing other leisure-destination hotels for fees, further diversifying its revenue. Redmond, deferred questions on Sunseeker during the October earnings call telling analyst they'll have to wait until a November 29th investor presentation to learn more.

Recommendation

I'm inclined to buy into Redmond's vision, but I'll wait a bit as the market is not enthralled with the company. Short interest in the stock is 9%. Rather, I will wait for the market's reaction to Redmond's presentation later this month. If the reaction is positive, I'll likely buy even if the stock rises as a result of the presentation as it's down about 30% from its 52-week high.

Summary

Insider buying is often a positive sign. As Ramaswamy says, who else knows more about a company that insiders? Redmond's purchase coupled with likely improving financials owing to a transition to a newer fleet and the possibility of a future combined airline and hotel/real estate development company suggests investors who follow Redmond's lead won't be disappointed.

Disclosure: I/we have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours.

I wrote this article myself, and it expresses my own opinions. I am not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). I have no business relationship with any company whose stock is mentioned in this article.

ecam
11-14-2017, 07:30 AM
JR purchased $1.5m in stock eh? Did he purchase it outright, or was it a transfer to pay for the 22 acres he bought in Port Charlotte under his own name?

Or was it an incentive grant he was given when he signed on here a year prior, which just now vested?

I wouldn't think a key figure would make a prominent buy right before a major merger/acquisition that they are attempting to keep under wraps. So I would conclude this is just a course of business and not necessarily a sign of anything big in and of itself. But I still stand by my earlier predictions. November 29th should be interesting.

At this point I should also state that I am not in management at Allegiant Travel Company, do not own any company stock, and have no plans to buy any. Everything I've said is strictly my personal opinion, and have no insider info. I don't want the FBI and SEC knocking on my door either.

Releasemaster
11-14-2017, 04:11 PM
You've got to think outside the box. We keep the 737s. Why wouldn't we? At the beginning of this year we flew 3 types. I would guess some MSP 737 pilots would be repositioned throughout the system, particularly the west coast (back to Hawaii). We get an international operation and reservations system. Airbi fly to Mexico and the Caribbean. Our management has expressed desire to expand south, but hasn't been able to make it happen for several reasons.

I don't see any of the big 3 legacy carriers buying us. To Delta we are just a fly on the window screen. They are a solid international carrier who cares way more about A330s/350s than A320s. They see their whole domestic network as feed. They don't need us for feed with all of their small narrow body airplanes coming. Wouldn't merge with an airline considered "less" than them.
American is still a basket case from their mergers. I don't see them taking on another airline with a wacky route structure that doesn't integrate with theirs at all. Doug Parker loves money, and we practically print it, but taking on 12 new hubs, and whole bunch of new destinations they don't fly to at all, and tackling another integration? I doubt it.
United has expressed a need for used Airbi, and of course Levi is there. They have played with basic coach and thinner routes. They are committed to growing their domestic network and can't get the planes they need. However, like the others, we would integrate poorly with their route network, and their management is a disaster. It seems the Big Plan over there changes on a weekly basis. They still haven't achieved synergy from the CAL merger. Would the Board even authorize another merger? The only way I could see that merger scenario happening is if they just bought the planes. That would require Allegiant air shutting down, which isn't going to happen. We are a publicly held company, and you can't just tank billions of investor dollars and stay out of jail.



I beg to differ. There is opportunity to fit G4 fleet into the existing Big 3. DL is getting new planes, but all with larger capacity than G4, which could be used to maintain and grow small and medium demand routes. UA is on the hunt for A319s and I'm sure they could make use of the 320s, either as replacements for their older 320s or trade ins towards 321s. AA could use the G4 fleet to grow the small main line jet fleet with the 319s, particularly with the 190s leaving and scope limits. Believe it or not, there is a way for them to capitalize on the 320s. They could easily replace the ancient AA 320 fleet and with an increase in the 738 seating capacity, would open up more markets that can support a 150 seat plane but not always a 170ish seat plane.

Also, if the airline is sold, there is no guarantee that any of the current "hubs" will be kept. More than likely the travel part of G4 will have a deal with whoever buys the airline to have an exclusive travel booking relationship to wherever they fly. Also, the current G4 hubs are not exactly attractive to a lot of existing airlines, they can all be serviced easily via nearby major airports and the few major airports G4 hubs in such as LAS and LAX will be a draw back. LAS because the G4 gates are on the older terminal that houses most ULCC activity and there would not be enough there to house a sizable LAS fleet and existing traffic, Plus very few, if any airlines would be enticed to vacate D or T3 to head over to A/B gates. LAX and FLL have so few G4 gates, there wouldn't be a lot to gain in the overall size of those airports operations unless, it went to operators with already sizable presence at those locations.

akulahunter
11-14-2017, 07:08 PM
So Indigo is trying to corner the market on new A320 NEOs (430 is a lot of planes to buy), think they will have any old ones to sell us?

N1sync
11-15-2017, 08:18 AM
So Indigo is trying to corner the market on new A320 NEOs (430 is a lot of planes to buy), think they will have any old ones to sell us?

Indigo wants Max ROI from frontier. If they can set up a strawman that threatens their competition, what are the odds they get bought for a hyper inflated price? Then the buyer cancels/assumes/sells all the Airbus orders.

What ULCC could possibly be able to operate 430 planes? Doesn't make sense.

LoFly
11-15-2017, 08:39 AM
Indigo wants Max ROI from frontier. If they can set up a strawman that threatens their competition, what are the odds they get bought for a hyper inflated price? Then the buyer cancels/assumes/sells all the Airbus orders.

What ULCC could possibly be able to operate 430 planes? Doesn't make sense.

Wizz and Frontier 140ish planes each, Volaris and Jetsmart 70ish each. Very doable.
But I see your point about Frointier getting bought.

akulahunter
11-15-2017, 12:00 PM
Their announcement said they want to triple in size in 10 years. That's strong double digit growth per year. Wonder if this will signal a new contract for them soon. No way they can staff that with current CBA and training contract.

tyler durden
11-16-2017, 07:27 AM
From seeking Alpha:

Financially, the company is carrying a high debt load. Its debt to equity ratio is 1.78 compared to the industry average of 1.3. Long-term debt to net income over the past 12 months is 5.49. Analysts consider anything above 5.0 as a potential solvency warning flag.

The favorable trend in CASM, however, will not likely continue. In their latest quarterly filing, ALGT reported a CASM for the nine-month period that ended on September 30, 2017 of 9.08 cents with salaries up almost 20% compared to a nine-month time frame that ended on September 30, 2016. The salary increase is the result of a collective bargaining agreement with pilots, which went into effect in August 2016, as well as costs associated with a 12.7 percent increase in the number of full-time equivalent employees.

What Does Mr. Redmond See?

But could it be that Redmond, who prior to coming to Allegiant had over 20 years of senior management positions in the hotel and none in the airline industry, sees his company's future earnings coming from something other than air travel? Yes! Redmond envisions ALGT will transport leisure travelers to their vacation destinations and own the destinations as well.

The plan is already unfolding on the Florida Gulf Coast where the company plans to build a 22-acre "Sunseeker" resort with a 75-room hotel, condominiums, bars and restaurants in Port Charlotte. The property, when finished in late 2019 or 2020, will include North America's largest private-resort swimming pool.

Insider buying is often a positive sign. As Ramaswamy says, who else knows more about a company that insiders? Redmond's purchase coupled with likely improving financials owing to a transition to a newer fleet and the possibility of a future combined airline and hotel/real estate development company suggests investors who follow Redmond's lead won't be disappointed.


Great article. It's doubtful an airline BOD would approve the purchase of a company whose (overvalued) stock is justified due to strong margins and ROE, solely for the purpose of parting out its highly leveraged middle-aged and marginally maintained fleet. G4 is a hybrid that doesn't fit into other networks, so it's also unlikely there would be efforts to integrate it into existing route structures. I'm just another dumb stick jockey, but based on seeking alpha's analysis, the stronger bet is that JR is either betting, or suspecting a purchase from an investment venture capital firm, or he actually believes his controversial real estate deal will be a profitable means of diversifying risk.

Releasemaster
11-16-2017, 11:44 AM
Great article. It's doubtful an airline BOD would approve the purchase of a company whose (overvalued) stock is justified due to strong margins and ROE, solely for the purpose of parting out its highly leveraged middle-aged and marginally maintained fleet. G4 is a hybrid that doesn't fit into other networks, so it's also unlikely there would be efforts to integrate it into existing route structures. I'm just another dumb stick jockey, but based on seeking alpha's analysis, the stronger bet is that JR is either betting, or suspecting a purchase from an investment venture capital firm, or he actually believes his controversial real estate deal will be a profitable means of diversifying risk.

Unless they plan to sell the airline part for a value less than the overall company's worth.

N1sync
11-16-2017, 04:40 PM
How'd the debt get so high? And what's this about solvency warning flag?!?!

sqwkvfr
11-16-2017, 05:18 PM
How'd the debt get so high? And what's this about solvency warning flag?!?!

Have you missed all of those Airbus purchase announcements?

I’ve pointed this out more than once before, but I think it’s important that nobody get in a twist over anything that is written on Seeking Alpha. Any unqualified moron with an opinion, a computer and an internet connection can write an article and post it on that website without any fact checking or editing. Think of it as the APC of the financial world.

hyde
11-20-2017, 11:27 PM
Think this what we've all been waiting for...https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/allegiant-begins-ogden-to-las-vegas-route/

ecam
11-21-2017, 09:22 AM
Ten New Domestic Routes Landing at United Airlines Just in time for Spring Travel - Nov 21, 2017 (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-11-21-Ten-New-Domestic-Routes-Landing-at-United-Airlines-Just-in-time-for-Spring-Travel)

So much for the notion that United would never fly routes like ours! 🤔

grnclvrs
11-21-2017, 10:55 AM
Ten New Domestic Routes Landing at United Airlines Just in time for Spring Travel - Nov 21, 2017 (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-11-21-Ten-New-Domestic-Routes-Landing-at-United-Airlines-Just-in-time-for-Spring-Travel)

So much for the notion that United would never fly routes like ours! 🤔

They're all RJs

tom11011
11-21-2017, 01:28 PM
Big news on Monday.

Beretta01
11-21-2017, 02:40 PM
Well, the flight attendants just got a tentative agreement that was long overdue.

CAirBear
11-21-2017, 02:50 PM
Well, the flight attendants just got a tentative agreement that was long overdue.

Yup! And I know the company proposed some rates for mechanics as well. I believe this happened within the last couple weeks. I guess it wasnít great and they are union driving right now, but itís interesting how the company seems to want to get every work ground wrapped up now...

Beretta01
11-21-2017, 02:54 PM
Yup! And I know the company proposed some rates for mechanics as well. I believe this happened within the last couple weeks. I guess it wasnít great and they are union driving right now, but itís interesting how the company seems to want to get every work ground wrapped up now...

Yeah, seems interesting. Purely speculation, but I wonder if theyíre cleaning up the labor issues to posture for something else....

akulahunter
11-21-2017, 04:09 PM
Merry Christmas! Allegiant announces three way merger... New company will operate as Allegiantier Country Airways!

Beretta01
11-21-2017, 05:49 PM
Merry Christmas! Allegiant announces three way merger... New company will operate as Allegiantier Country Airways!

LOL....about a year ago, I gave it a 30% chance of us merging with someone in the next decade. Now, I think that number is closer to 70-80%. They donít really ďrejectĒ the notion during the town hall meetings, either....they kind of dismiss it as the right opportunity hasnít yet presented itself...allegedly.

akulahunter
11-21-2017, 08:46 PM
LOL....about a year ago, I gave it a 30% chance of us merging with someone in the next decade. Now, I think that number is closer to 70-80%. They donít really ďrejectĒ the notion during the town hall meetings, either....they kind of dismiss it as the right opportunity hasnít yet presented itself...allegedly.

Wow! In a decade? I think you are low balling it...

I give it a 95% chance that in the next decade we will either*:

1) Merge with another LCC (or someone like Alaska/Hawaii)
2) Be spun off and bought by a legacy

* = Assuming: No 67+, retirements progress as expected, etc

I don't think there will be enough pilots to go around to keep all of the LCCs operating and the legacies replacing retirements while simultaneously growing. I am also assuming that the legacies will buy LCCs prior to absorbing their regionals (to keep low cost labor as long as possible and to bring pilots/planes on board that can be used immediately.

ecam
11-22-2017, 06:23 AM
There has been some odd goodwill from management at Frontier lately too. Coincidence?

Settling grievances
New airplanes (far more than they have pilots for)
Advancing mediation to the endgame

4GotPassword
11-22-2017, 08:04 AM
MG in response to the TA, ďThis agreement will begin an exciting new chapter of growth for our inflight team and for the company as a whole.Ē

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/las-vegas-allegiant-air-flight-attendants-strike-deal-on-contract/

grnclvrs
11-22-2017, 08:08 AM
Don't get too excited yet. The TA is with the negotiating committee not the flight attendants. Remember the turd they offered last year? Wait for the details and the ratification vote. Then the announcement of the other 28 new 320's.

JustWatching
11-22-2017, 10:14 AM
MG in response to the TA, ďThis agreement will begin an exciting new chapter of growth for our inflight team and for the company as a whole.Ē

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/las-vegas-allegiant-air-flight-attendants-strike-deal-on-contract/

Didnít he say that after the last TA they had that was voted down by what... a 98% margin?

4GotPassword
11-22-2017, 10:54 AM
I wouldnít think the company would make large business decisions based off of securing future FA costs. I just thought it could possibly be an indicator to future plans (regardless of the TA) but it sounds like it he has said it before.

Desert Sky
11-22-2017, 06:31 PM
Big news on Monday.
And what do you think that will be?

KC135
11-22-2017, 08:21 PM
When you have these forecast locked in with contracts then you are able to get a lower interest rate on new debt.

Machaca
11-23-2017, 04:42 AM
MG in response to the TA, ďThis agreement will begin an exciting new chapter of growth for our inflight team and for the company as a whole.Ē

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/las-vegas-allegiant-air-flight-attendants-strike-deal-on-contract/

I don't recall our contract announcement mentioning anything like "policies for potential mergers"

beech1980
11-23-2017, 06:49 AM
I don't recall our contract announcement mentioning anything like "policies for potential mergers"

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/airlinemg.pdf

Sun Countryís contract has a pretty solid merger/acquisition/buyout clause. If both parties are not represented by the same union it defaults to the Allegheny/Mohawk LPP, which was updated in 2007. Basically an arbitration to merge seniorityís. Same BS that Alaska and VA are going through. There are always winners and losers when an arbitrator has your faith...

labbats
11-23-2017, 03:20 PM
Read our contract regarding mergers.

beech1980
11-23-2017, 06:43 PM
I donít have it. What does it say?

labbats
11-23-2017, 07:50 PM
Here you go...

a. If the pilots of both pre-merger carriers, (i.e., the Allegiant Pilots and the pilots of the other air carrier(s) involved in the merger), are all represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, there shall be a seniority integration of the Pilot groups in accordance with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Seniority Merger Policy (IBT Merger Policy) in effect as of the date of such merger or other date as the parties may agree upon. b. If the IBT Merger Policy is not in effect, then the Company shall ensure, as a condition precedent of any operational merger of the carriers, that provisions be included requiring that the surviving carrier shall provide for fair and equitable integration of the pre-merger Pilotsí seniority lists in accordance with the provisions of the McCaskill Bond Amendment, 49 U.S.C. ß42112. c. If any of the Pilots at one or more of the merging carriers are not represented by the IBT, and the representational body(ies) of the Pilots do not agree to follow IBT Merger Policy, the provisions of the McCaskill Bond Amendment, 49 U.S.C. ß42112, shall apply. d. The Company will accept such integrated seniority list pursuant to Section H.1.a-c above, including conditions and restrictions if such list and the conditions and restrictions comply with the following criteria: i. There shall be no "system flush" whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latterís Position; and, ii. Pilots on the furlough list as of the date the integrated seniority list takes effect may not bump/displace active Pilots as a result of the integration of the seniority list; and, iii. The integrated list does not cause or contribute to the incurring of back pay, increased costs associated with training Pilots in order to implement the integrated seniority lists, company paid moves, or payment of premiums for flying not actually performed. 2. Unless otherwise mutually agreed, integrated seniority list(s) shall not take effect until a Single Collective Bargaining Agreement (SCBA) covering the pre-transaction crewmember groups is in effect.

tailendcharlie
11-23-2017, 07:58 PM
I don’t have it. What does it say?
Any merger would basically go down like the last several we have seen, per federal laws. You can’t write provisions into your contract to set up a hose-job for any potential merger partner. McCaskill-Bond prevails. The two sides try to arrive at an agreed-upon list, which they won’t, so it ends up going to an arbitration panel. The two sides present their case & the panel decides. You can pretty much count on relative position or close to it, with adjustments for situations like imbalances in widebodies or international routes. IOW if Allegiant merged with United, don’t be running out & buying youself a 777 manual.

The other important thing to keep in mind is that no seniority list award is going to re-order your own airline’s list. IOW you might be super senior but chose to remain an FO; they’re not gonna group the CA’s & FO’s separately & stick you down in the middle of your own list.

G4IND
11-26-2017, 07:16 PM
Big news on Monday.

https://twitter.com/Allegiant/status/934859488431132672

Twitter is saying something about a "big Cyber Monday announcement!"
probably air fare deals... but are the two related?

JustWatching
11-27-2017, 06:48 AM
https://twitter.com/Allegiant/status/934859488431132672

Twitter is saying something about a "big Cyber Monday announcement!"
probably air fare deals... but are the two related?

Youíre not seriously asking if an announcement about a Cyber Monday sale is about air fare deals are you? :eek:

LoFly
11-27-2017, 07:54 AM
https://twitter.com/Allegiant/status/934859488431132672

Twitter is saying something about a "big Cyber Monday announcement!"
probably air fare deals... but are the two related?

From a reliable source... we're buying a dozen 330s on EBay.

Machaca
11-27-2017, 09:11 AM
From a reliable source... we're buying a dozen 330s on EBay.

No, they aren't...United used a bot and picked 'em up at the last .69 seconds

TommyDevito
11-27-2017, 10:10 AM
From a reliable source... we're buying a dozen 330s on EBay.

I just outbid them. :D

Captainbfv
11-27-2017, 01:29 PM
You guys just took this thread from ridiculous to absolutely fu***ng hilarious. Outstanding [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

G4IND
11-27-2017, 02:24 PM
Youíre not seriously asking if an announcement about a Cyber Monday sale is about air fare deals are you? :eek:

I was asking whether the Cyber Monday sale was the "big announcement" that was supposed to come today....

JustWatching
11-27-2017, 02:47 PM
I was asking whether the Cyber Monday sale was the "big announcement" that was supposed to come today....

Holy crap man.. There is NO announcement today or any other Monday for that matter. You really donít get that?

G4IND
11-27-2017, 03:16 PM
holy crap man.. There is no announcement today or any other monday for that matter. You really don’t get that?

r e l a x

CaptainRoryNot
12-04-2017, 04:44 PM
New routes tomorrow...

N1sync
12-04-2017, 04:45 PM
New routes tomorrow...

Thx nostradumass

JustWatching
12-05-2017, 06:17 AM
New routes tomorrow...

Tomorrow or next Monday?

tom11011
12-05-2017, 02:12 PM
Big news on Monday.

Fire up your Google and check it out for yourself. Looks like United is buying us.

Beretta01
12-05-2017, 02:35 PM
Fire up your Google and check it out for yourself. Looks like United is buying us.

Didnít want to be the first one to break the news here.....how exciting!

😂

disco inferno
12-05-2017, 03:07 PM
Oh boy!!!. I can finally get that Cleveland base I've always wanted!!

Ground Effect
12-05-2017, 04:26 PM
From the never wrong, factual hub known as Wikipedia lol. Great place for a big announcement.

G4IND
12-05-2017, 04:40 PM
From the never wrong, factual hub known as Wikipedia lol. Great place for a big announcement.

He probably even edited that into the wiki page himself...

akulahunter
12-05-2017, 05:19 PM
Price is too low... lol

crxpilot
12-06-2017, 04:11 AM
SEC Charges: False Tweets Sent Two Stocks Reeling in Market Manipulation
Criminal Charges Also Filed

https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-254.html

Good luck with that!

akulahunter
12-06-2017, 04:45 AM
SEC Charges: False Tweets Sent Two Stocks Reeling in Market Manipulation
Criminal Charges Also Filed

https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-254.html

Good luck with that!

Pretty sure neither company felt the slightest ripple from the fictitious wiki post.

CaptainRoryNot
01-10-2018, 11:03 AM
New routes yesterday...


https://www.ibj.com/articles/66963-allegiant-adding-nonstop-flights-to-sarasota-charleston

LoFly
01-17-2018, 07:20 PM
https://www.gurufocus.com/news/625576/allegiant-travel-co-algt-ceo-and-chairman-maurice-j-jr-gallagher-sold-305-million-of-shares

Should we change the title of this post to "Uh oh news around the corner?"

N1sync
01-17-2018, 09:41 PM
He probably sold it to finance the next sunseeker, he sold $44mil a year or so ago and may have financed the sunseeker property among other pet projects.

j3cub
01-18-2018, 04:20 AM
https://www.gurufocus.com/news/625576/allegiant-travel-co-algt-ceo-and-chairman-maurice-j-jr-gallagher-sold-305-million-of-shares

Should we change the title of this post to "Uh oh news around the corner?"

30.5 million is chump change compared to what he actually holds.

ecam
01-18-2018, 05:46 AM
30.5 million is chump change compared to what he actually holds.

How much does he actually hold? Got sources? I've found conflicting, reports, and this is the third time he's dumped stock since 2014. It appears he has given up half of his stake in the company.

Not exactly cashing out, but definitely pulling back. And JR has been gaining influence. I'm seeing a spinoff of the airline coming. The travel company will run resorts and get guaranteed cheap seats on whoever buys us. Rumors are apparently rampant in Summerlin.

Funny how Spirit suddenly got a decent AIP and Frontier is in the end game, both after years of stagnation… could be related.

sqwkvfr
01-18-2018, 06:12 AM
How much does he actually hold? Got sources? I've found conflicting, reports, and this is the third time he's dumped stock since 2014. It appears he has given up half of his stake in the company.

Not exactly cashing out, but definitely pulling back. And JR has been gaining influence. I'm seeing a spinoff of the airline coming. The travel company will run resorts and get guaranteed cheap seats on whoever buys us. Rumors are apparently rampant in Summerlin.

Funny how Spirit suddenly got a decent AIP and Frontier is in the end game, both after years of stagnationÖ could be related.

He still owns just shy of 3 million shares and has owned close to that amount for a few years now. This was an automatic sell....Heís not even close to ďpulling back.Ē

hyde
01-18-2018, 12:36 PM
He still owns just shy of 3 million shares and has owned close to that amount for a few years now. This was an automatic sell....Heís not even close to ďpulling back.Ē

^factual info. Basically like the rest of us going to the atm and taking out a few hundreds. If he sells 1 million + shares I might wonder if somethi ng was up.

Releasemaster
01-18-2018, 02:17 PM
If you saw the e-mail advertising the next town hall you'll find MG name not listed in the participants list.

crxpilot
01-18-2018, 04:12 PM
If you saw the e-mail advertising the next town hall you'll find MG name not listed in the participants list.

Everybody should be submitting a question if Allegiant will provide an additional bonus in the profit sharing for the Trump tax cuts like the other 170 companies and most airlines have done. (And beat Apples recent $2500 number!)

CAirBear
01-18-2018, 08:05 PM
Everybody should be submitting a question if Allegiant will provide an additional bonus in the profit sharing for the Trump tax cuts like the other 170 companies and most airlines have done. (And beat Apples recent $2500 number!)

I like it! Regarding MG not being listed, has that ever happened before?

ecam
01-19-2018, 05:19 AM
I like it! Regarding MG not being listed, has that ever happened before?

Not that I can remember.

N1sync
01-19-2018, 08:28 AM
His last day must be the 31st

CaptainRoryNot
01-19-2018, 09:37 AM
They're announcing new uniforms in 2 weeks

LoFly
01-19-2018, 10:36 AM
They're announcing new uniforms in 2 weeks

Big hats for everybody!

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JJOiGM3FWi9L2JW/giphy.gif

Beretta01
01-19-2018, 04:36 PM
They're announcing new uniforms in 2 weeks

Weird you say that; an airport ops manager mentioned something about our new uniforms the other day and I thought he was joking....where did you hear this from?

CAirBear
01-19-2018, 05:47 PM
Weird you say that; an airport ops manager mentioned something about our new uniforms the other day and I thought he was joking....where did you hear this from?

Yes, source please? Interesting.

jegermeister
01-19-2018, 08:23 PM
Yes, source please? Interesting.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180120/4c8d353de5f1eae7e60320578522b734.jpeg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

crxpilot
01-20-2018, 04:49 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gBxW-GSnE-I/Syl9Zw6-yAI/AAAAAAAAA9E/zZy5EogwwXI/s400/Idi_AminImage4.jpg

I cant reveal my source but heres whats coming.

greeka
01-20-2018, 06:46 AM
maybe MG is just not in town!

CaptainRoryNot
01-20-2018, 01:13 PM
Yes, source please? Interesting.

Starts with Shat... ends with ema...

N1sync
01-20-2018, 01:21 PM
I heard the flight attendants are getting thesehttps://www.dhresource.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g4-M01-52-E8-rBVaEFd_VUKAEDzEAAGVOFk9B_c624.jpg/2016-stewardess-uniforms-orange-sexy-pilot.jpg

Beretta01
01-20-2018, 02:21 PM
Starts with Shat... ends with ema...

Nice, she would know!

CAirBear
01-20-2018, 03:14 PM
Starts with Shat... ends with ema...

Lol. Gotcha. 👍🏻

akulahunter
01-20-2018, 06:01 PM
I heard the flight attendants are getting thesehttps://www.dhresource.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g4-M01-52-E8-rBVaEFd_VUKAEDzEAAGVOFk9B_c624.jpg/2016-stewardess-uniforms-orange-sexy-pilot.jpg

Where's the "Like Button?"

akulahunter
01-20-2018, 06:09 PM
Funny how Spirit suddenly got a decent AIP and Frontier is in the end game, both after years of stagnationÖ could be related.

Nah, Spirit's AIP and Frontier's (rumored) push to finish up their TA are 98.5% (FYI, 87.324% of statistics are made up) a result of the new Tax Plan. The companies an afford to up their offers without affecting the bottom line...

Releasemaster
01-21-2018, 01:31 PM
maybe MG is just not in town!

There hyping this as the first ever "live" town hall in front of an audience. To happen during the big leadership pow wow when the bring all the station managers in to LAS. Highly doubt MG would miss that.

FreshWater
01-21-2018, 05:51 PM
There hyping this as the first ever "live" town hall in front of an audience. To happen during the big leadership pow wow when the bring all the station managers in to LAS. Highly doubt MG would miss that.

More over hyping brown water beaches.

tm602
01-22-2018, 05:19 PM
Where's the "Like Button?"

"Like"? I'm in LOVE.

ysslah
01-23-2018, 10:55 AM
Yes. Good news around the corner indeed. No more rental cars

Machaca
01-24-2018, 04:55 AM
Yes. Good news around the corner indeed. No more rental cars

How about an explanation of this?

ysslah
01-24-2018, 07:18 AM
How about an explanation of this?

If you are pilot for us, you know what I'm talking about. You may have missed the sarcasm and displeasure in my post.

j3cub
01-24-2018, 08:17 AM
No more rental cars for VBD/TDY. Shuttles only.

CAirBear
01-24-2018, 08:29 AM
I suspect a lot of late shows and departures coming up. Well see how much the company feels itís worth it after that. Morons.

ysslah
01-24-2018, 08:30 AM
No more rental cars for VBD/TDY. Shuttles only.

Or certain long term training events. Like the LAS guys stuck in the SFB for Airbus transition

JustWatching
01-24-2018, 11:31 AM
No more rental cars for VBD/TDY. Shuttles only.

Someone threatened to sue the company over sharing of a rental car and this is the company’s response.

We have a union for a reason people. Let them make the ridiculous threats that lead to these asinine decisions.

CAirBear
01-24-2018, 12:24 PM
Someone threatened to sue the company over sharing of a rental car and this is the companyís response.

We have a union for a reason people. Let them make the ridiculous threats that lead to these asinine decisions.

I heard that as well. Not sure I follow though. From what I can tell, the contract doesnít talk about rental cars at all. So what grounds/basis was this potential lawsuit about?

Now the company all of a sudden switching to short stay hotels I canít imagine have a leg to stand on. Iím almost certain the hotels need to be extended stays with kitchenettes etc.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

crxpilot
01-24-2018, 01:06 PM
I heard that as well. Not sure I follow though. From what I can tell, the contract doesnít talk about rental cars at all. So what grounds/basis was this potential lawsuit about?

Now the company all of a sudden switching to short stay hotels I canít imagine have a leg to stand on. Iím almost certain the hotels need to be extended stays with kitchenettes etc.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Cmon guys you gotta give em a break. Its not like they make record profits or get large tax breaks or anything. Times are tough. You think those cute pet contests pay for themselves?

sqwkvfr
01-24-2018, 06:22 PM
So what grounds/basis was this potential lawsuit about

The type of idiot who would threaten legal action over something like this almost never has actual grounds.

Same thing happened with the G4 jumpseat FB page; a VBD pilot threatened legal action so it was shut down. Was this the same person?

Beretta01
01-24-2018, 06:52 PM
Same thing happened with the G4 jumpseat FB page; a VBD pilot threatened legal action so it was shut down. Was this the same person?

I never understood that...what was their gripe with the FB page and what exactly were they going to sue them for??

Der Meister
01-24-2018, 07:37 PM
I never understood that...what was their gripe with the FB page and what exactly were they going to sue them for??

1 million Facebook credits... Lol

N1sync
01-24-2018, 07:50 PM
The type of idiot who would threaten legal action over something like this almost never has actual grounds.

Same thing happened with the G4 jumpseat FB page; a VBD pilot threatened legal action so it was shut down. Was this the same person?

I would bet a lot of money it's the same person, they had this kind of trouble written all over their face when they showed for an interview. The company is too scared to fire this person for fear of litigation and now we all have to pay the price for their annoying, childish, and SELFISH behavior.

N1sync
01-24-2018, 07:51 PM
1 million Facebook credits... Lol

It's complicated but it has to do with identity insecurities

Desert Sky
01-24-2018, 10:31 PM
Is this pilot a CA or FO?

Beretta01
01-25-2018, 01:09 AM
I would bet a lot of money it's the same person, they had this kind of trouble written all over their face when they showed for an interview. The company is too scared to fire this person for fear of litigation and now we all have to pay the price for their annoying, childish, and SELFISH behavior.

Ahhhhhh ok, it all is coming together now....VBD....personal issues....wanting to get a lawsuit...yep, I know the person. [insert Austin Powers quote here]

ysslah
01-25-2018, 04:59 AM
I can tell you with 100% certainty that the person involved with FB JS page closing had nothing to do with the rental car debacle. In fact, the company rescinding rental cars completely due to a pilot threatening lawsuit is just a rumor at this point. So we should hold our horses before we hang anyone unless you heard that from an elected union person or a management person and you're willing to share who told you.

hyde
01-25-2018, 06:02 AM
Can someone PM me about what happened with the FB page. I always wondered but now even more curious. What did unnamed person do to make it shut down?

ecam
01-25-2018, 06:15 AM
Can someone PM me about what happened with the FB page. I always wondered but now even more curious. What did unnamed person do to make it shut down?

The story I heard is that this person was told they had to put their full name on their facebook profile in order to access the page, and it became a pi$sing match. Said person emailed 1224 and complained about union resources being selectively made available to some pilots, but not all, and 1224 agreed and made them shut it down.

ecam
01-25-2018, 06:22 AM
I would bet a lot of money it's the same person, they had this kind of trouble written all over their face when they showed for an interview. The company is too scared to fire this person for fear of litigation and now we all have to pay the price for their annoying, childish, and SELFISH behavior.

It's complicated but it has to do with identity insecurities

Ahhhhhh ok, it all is coming together now....VBD....personal issues....wanting to get a lawsuit...yep, I know the person. [insert Austin Powers quote here]

This is rude and uncalled for. I know nothing about what you're talking about, but anonymously outing them in public, and making statements like this is a low blow. Especially if you're actually someone conducting interviews, which I seriously doubt. You're attacking them because of who they are? Talk about annoying, childish, and selfish behavior! I expect better from this pilot group. Grow up.

N1sync
01-25-2018, 08:34 AM
This is rude and uncalled for. I know nothing about what you're talking about, but anonymously outing them in public, and making statements like this is a low blow. Especially if you're actually someone conducting interviews, which I seriously doubt. You're attacking them because of who they are? Talk about annoying, childish, and selfish behavior! I expect better from this pilot group. Grow up.

I'm sorry Mr Hall Monitor, I'll hold back on facts next time someone wants information about something that affects us all.

ecam
01-25-2018, 09:16 AM
I'm sorry Mr Hall Monitor, I'll hold back on facts next time someone wants information about something that affects us all.

When you have facts, we're all ears. Baseless rumors, innuendo, and anonymous personal attacks against against a fellow pilot aren't facts, and, helps no one.

Again, grow up. Act like you deserve to fly a jet.

I asked around and very easily found out who you were talking about. She is actually highly respected by management, quite the opposite of what you said. You should probably make some apologies, and avoid stepping on your d*** again.

JustWatching
01-25-2018, 10:20 AM
When you have facts, we're all ears. Baseless rumors, innuendo, and anonymous personal attacks against against a fellow pilot aren't facts, and, helps no one.

Again, grow up. Act like you deserve to fly a jet.

I asked around and very easily found out who you were talking about. She is actually highly respected by management, quite the opposite of what you said. You should probably make some apologies, and avoid stepping on your d*** again.

Ummm... no she’s not.

Definitely avoid stepping on your dik... it has to hurt!

Beretta01
01-25-2018, 10:23 AM
Iím concerned about someone trying to intentionally derail our pilot group, creating barriers in cockpit communication(i.e. CAs being worried about being turned into HR), and taking away valuable resources(the Jumpseat FB page)....but, FWIW, I do not know them and all of the info is second hand. I do find it hard to believe that someone is trying to purposely get fired so as to file a lawsuit against the company, but from what Iíve been told, the case has been rather compelling thus far.

Uncle Wurmy
01-25-2018, 10:39 AM
The story I heard is that this person was told they had to put their full name on their facebook profile in order to access the page, and it became a pi$sing match. Said person emailed 1224 and complained about union resources being selectively made available to some pilots, but not all, and 1224 agreed and made them shut it down.

Wasn't it always their policy on the Jumpseat FB page to make everyone show their real full name? I know I was made to do it before I could join, and they put that message out all the time. If so, how in the world would that be selective treatment by them and/or the union? Letting one person do something different than everyone else would be selective treatment, not the other way around.

FWIW, I heard from several people in the know that the committee members were personally threatened with lawsuits from one individual, and they shut it down of their own accord because they didn't want to put up with this B.S.

Whatever happened, that page was an awesome resource for me, and it sucks that its gone. I hope that one person's ****ing match was worth it.

tyler durden
01-25-2018, 04:29 PM
I'm sorry Mr Hall Monitor, I'll hold back on facts next time someone wants information about something that affects us all.

Don't be rude!

Grow up!

Stop being annoying, childish and selfish!

Act like you deserve to fly a jet!

Stop stepping on your d...!

All in 2 posts. Wow...

Captainbfv
01-25-2018, 05:03 PM
Gentlemen gentlemen. Letís go ahead take our dirty laundry and swing our di**s in our own private page. This is not only productive but unnecessary.
It is entertaining donít get me wrong. But letís keep it in house.


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Captainbfv
01-26-2018, 01:10 AM
Gentlemen gentlemen. Letís go ahead take our dirty laundry and swing our di**s in our own private page. This is not only unproductive but unnecessary.
It is entertaining donít get me wrong. But letís keep it in house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

worksweekends
01-26-2018, 05:26 AM
When you have facts, we're all ears. Baseless rumors, innuendo, and anonymous personal attacks against against a fellow pilot aren't facts, and, helps no one.

Again, grow up. Act like you deserve to fly a jet.

I asked around and very easily found out who you were talking about. She is actually highly respected by management, quite the opposite of what you said. You should probably make some apologies, and avoid stepping on your d*** again.

Is she highly respected by her fellow pilots?

Machaca
01-26-2018, 06:00 AM
Is she highly respected by her fellow pilots?

No, he is not

JustWatching
01-26-2018, 07:59 AM
No, he is not

Now now....

Captainbfv
01-26-2018, 10:18 AM
No, he is not



Hahahaha ooooooook now we know who youíre talking about. I had a feeling it was the same individual [emoji23] [emoji23]


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essayons
01-26-2018, 11:23 AM
This is rude and uncalled for. I know nothing about what you're talking about, but anonymously outing them in public, and making statements like this is a low blow. Especially if you're actually someone conducting interviews, which I seriously doubt. You're attacking them because of who they are? Talk about annoying, childish, and selfish behavior! I expect better from this pilot group. Grow up.

All this ECAM, and you disclosed their gender. You singlehandedly narrowed it down to 5% of the pilot group. Nice going.

crxpilot
01-26-2018, 12:28 PM
No, he is not

Does he ďCut like a knife?Ē

SkiVasquez
01-28-2018, 02:11 AM
How about we stop blaming certain people for how this company acts? This company's mistreatment of its employees goes back years before said pilot started here. We only have ourselves to blame for accepting a contract with such poor language and protections (myself included).

We sacrificed too much to get new pay rates, better health insurance, and increased retirement. The company wore the negotiators and the pilot group down over five years of negotiations enough that we accepted the first TA by a large margin.

Hopefully we will all learn from our mistake in the next round of negotiations. I'm not holding out hope though. They wooed us with fancy new rates and no work rules in 2010, and they did the same thing in 2016.

tyler durden
01-28-2018, 10:50 AM
We sacrificed too much to get new pay rates, better health insurance, and increased retirement.

Agree 100% with the company's mistreatment but what specifically did we sacrifice on our first contract in exchange for significantly better pay, health insurance and retirement? We had nothing to begin with.

Also agree we could have held out longer for what in hindsight was better verbiage, but at what cost, and what justification? Given management's offer, the NMB would have never released us, so what was the alternative? Wild cat strike to protest industry-standard compensation? We could have voted it down, but pilots weren't willing to continue suffering 4-tier, subpar compensation, risk losing the coalition of a worn down pilot group, an economic downturn, spike in fuel prices, etc.

Relative to other airline first contracts and prevailing conditions, I would argue our pilots (and you) were wise in taking the offer, locking in our gains and looking to make further improvements in subsequent contracts. You have to start somewhere and great contracts take multiple iterations and decades to achieve, we will get there.

FreshWater
01-28-2018, 11:47 AM
How about we stop blaming certain people for how this company acts? This company's mistreatment of its employees goes back years before said pilot started here. We only have ourselves to blame for accepting a contract with such poor language and protections (myself included).

We sacrificed too much to get new pay rates, better health insurance, and increased retirement. The company wore the negotiators and the pilot group down over five years of negotiations enough that we accepted the first TA by a large margin.

Hopefully we will all learn from our mistake in the next round of negotiations. I'm not holding out hope though. They wooed us with fancy new rates and no work rules in 2010, and they did the same thing in 2016.

FOQA gate keepers, instead of ‘Rosie’ safety department playground. Third party arbitration process instead of management last say terminations. Union reps can now be mandated to bear witness to the secret society of management soft and hard harassment/discipline process. If you were here, you remember right up to our first contract the terminations ramped up exponentially. Captains were playing Russian roulette daily.

Perfect first contract for a company less than two decades old, who would that be?

jegermeister
01-28-2018, 11:51 AM
Relative to other airline first contracts and prevailing conditions, I would argue our pilots (and you) were wise in taking the offer, locking in our gains and looking to make further improvements in subsequent contracts. You have to start somewhere and great contracts take multiple iterations and decades to achieve, we will get there.


Well said. Iíve worked under two separate ALPA MECís and an independent union. All three had contract issues. The only time that I can remember a pilot group that thought they knocked it out of the park, had that contract gutted by a bankruptcy judge.

We need to hold management to stand by this contract and grieve it when they donít. We also need to volunteer and support our volunteers instead of whining about the situation.




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SkiVasquez
01-28-2018, 12:19 PM
Agree 100% with the company's mistreatment but what specifically did we sacrifice on our first contract in exchange for significantly better pay, health insurance and retirement? We had nothing to begin with.

Also agree we could have held out longer for what in hindsight was better verbiage, but at what cost, and what justification? Given management's offer, the NMB would have never released us, so what was the alternative? Wild cat strike to protest industry-standard compensation? We could have voted it down, but pilots weren't willing to continue suffering 4-tier, subpar compensation, risk losing the coalition of a worn down pilot group, an economic downturn, spike in fuel prices, etc.

Relative to other airline first contracts and prevailing conditions, I would argue our pilots (and you) were wise in taking the offer, locking in our gains and looking to make further improvements in subsequent contracts. You have to start somewhere and great contracts take multiple iterations and decades to achieve, we will get there.

FOQA gate keepers, instead of ‘Rosie’ safety department playground. Third party arbitration process instead of management last say terminations. Union reps can now be mandated to bear witness to the secret society of management soft and hard harassment/discipline process. If you were here, you remember right up to our first contract the terminations ramped up exponentially. Captains were playing Russian roulette daily.

Perfect first contract for a company less than two decades old, who would that be?

Yes, I was here prior to our first contract. I was also here for the extra money and promise of new work rules (which never came) in 2010 and the subsequent failed union drive.

Not saying we didn't get things. We did. But if you've read the contract, you know the language is sloppy. Go back 1-2 pages in this very thread to see that we have no language protecting our VBD pilots. Seems like TDY will also be affected by this.

LTD is also another oversight. Had we paid our own premiums, or had the company give us a stipend to pay the LTD premiums, those LTD earnings wouldn't be taxed. But because the company pays them? It's taxed. There's more money out of your pocket if you ever go out on medical. This was brought up to the union but never changed.

And speaking of sick/LTD, we gave up min guarantee for a sick bank. Now I have to blow through 210 hours of sick time to get paid guarantee for three months before my LTD kicks in (no, I didn't opt for STD). Min guarantee while out on medical was a huge benefit. Giving this up was a huge loss.

I can only speak to what affects me (as a relatively senior pilot). Talk to the junior guys and I'm sure there's other stuff that negatively impacts them.

I think it's a fallacy to believe we had nothing to begin with. Sure, a court had ruled that our work rules weren't binding, but the company still honored (mostly) those things I mentioned above. I'm also not saying that we didn't gain anything. But a company's goal in negotiations is to: 1) offer a contract that will be accepted by 50% of the pilot group + 1, and 2) string out negotiations and wear down our negotiators and pilot group, so that when we are finally offered a TA, they satisfy objective #1. I believe we fell victim to this strategy.

The gist of my previous post was that we should not place blame on a single pilot for what the company is doing to us, and that we make sure with our second contract, we don't let the company wear us down so that they can throw extra money at us in exchange for subpar language. I think we've done this twice now (2010, 2016). You can disagree about whether or not that happened with our first contract, but with the pay raise, promise of work rule changes, and failed union drive in 2010, it's clear that this company tries their hardest to avoid having solid and binding language in a contract in exchange for $$$.

SkiVasquez
01-28-2018, 12:37 PM
Also, disparaging another pilot by saying they are the reason VBD pilots lost their rental cars and were put in short stay hotels was inappropriate and missed the point. The reason VBD/TDY pilots lost that was lack of contractual language, even though VBD/TDY had existed well prior to our first contract.

SkiVasquez
01-28-2018, 12:51 PM
We need to hold management to stand by this contract and grieve it when they donít. We also need to volunteer and support our volunteers instead of whining about the situation.


I did volunteer. For years. AAPAG and Teamsters. Does that mean I'm not allowed to share my opinion about what I think went wrong?

I absolutely encourage everyone to read and understand the contract and to hold the company accountable. That doesn't mean that we aren't allowed to share our views on our contract though (volunteer or not).

FreshWater
01-28-2018, 12:56 PM
Yes, I was here prior to our first contract. I was also here for the extra money and promise of new work rules (which never came) in 2010 and the subsequent failed union drive.

Not saying we didn't get things. We did. But if you've read the contract, you know the language is sloppy. Go back 1-2 pages in this very thread to see that we have no language protecting our VBD pilots. Seems like TDY will also be affected by this.

LTD is also another oversight. Had we paid our own premiums, or had the company give us a stipend to pay the LTD premiums, those LTD earnings wouldn't be taxed. But because the company pays them? It's taxed. There's more money out of your pocket if you ever go out on medical. This was brought up to the union but never changed.

And speaking of sick/LTD, we gave up min guarantee for a sick bank. Now I have to blow through 210 hours of sick time to get paid guarantee for three months before my LTD kicks in (no, I didn't opt for STD). Min guarantee while out on medical was a huge benefit. Giving this up was a huge loss.

I can only speak to what affects me (as a relatively senior pilot). Talk to the junior guys and I'm sure there's other stuff that negatively impacts them.

I think it's a fallacy to believe we had nothing to begin with. Sure, a court had ruled that our work rules weren't binding, but the company still honored (mostly) those things I mentioned above. I'm also not saying that we didn't gain anything. But a company's goal in negotiations is to: 1) offer a contract that will be accepted by 50% of the pilot group + 1, and 2) string out negotiations and wear down our negotiators and pilot group, so that when we are finally offered a TA, they satisfy objective #1. I believe we fell victim to this strategy.

The gist of my previous post was that we should not place blame on a single pilot for what the company is doing to us, and that we make sure with our second contract, we don't let the company wear us down so that they can throw extra money at us in exchange for subpar language. I think we've done this twice now (2010, 2016). You can disagree about whether or not that happened with our first contract, but with the pay raise, promise of work rule changes, and failed union drive in 2010, it's clear that this company tries their hardest to avoid having solid and binding language in a contract in exchange for $$$.

Yes our first contract runs short. Itís a first contract. I would have considered a no vote if we had an actual contract to fall back on. The balance of which imo rated a yes vote. I did not want to risk more time to fall victim to a middle management that is basically Mesa born. I know of a few captains who wish they had their careers back.

dawgdriver
01-28-2018, 01:16 PM
But a company's goal in negotiations is to: 1) offer a contract that will be accepted by 50% of the pilot group + 1, and 2) string out negotiations and wear down our negotiators and pilot group, so that when we are finally offered a TA, they satisfy objective #1. I believe we fell victim to this strategy.

Management satisfied objective #1? 50% +1? Didn't the TA pass overwhelmingly?

SkiVasquez
01-28-2018, 08:21 PM
Management satisfied objective #1? 50% +1? Didn't the TA pass overwhelmingly?
Yes, I think the company succeeded in stringing out negotiations for as long as possible and wore us and the negotiators down. Yes, it passed pretty overwhelmingly. But I think you're missing the point of what was being talked about in this thread. VBD/TDY pilots no longer have rental cars or long stay hotels. Why? Absolutely no language was put into the contract, even though VBD/TDY existed well prior to the contract implementation. That's our own fault.

dawgdriver
01-29-2018, 08:24 AM
Yes, I think the company succeeded in stringing out negotiations for as long as possible and wore us and the negotiators down. Yes, it passed pretty overwhelmingly. But I think you're missing the point of what was being talked about in this thread. VBD/TDY pilots no longer have rental cars or long stay hotels. Why? Absolutely no language was put into the contract, even though VBD/TDY existed well prior to the contract implementation. That's our own fault.

I see your point. An oversight that is likely more painful to junior than senior, and as you said, surely there are more. I also agree with others that first contracts often leave much to be desired. Work in progress that thankfully improves over time.



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