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View Full Version : Looking for 121.436 advice.

10-14-2017, 07:56 PM
Hi there. I'm hoping someone can shed light with this issue. I recently applied for a left seat position 121 operator. I was seriously considered because I have all the heavy jet time for their requirements. However all that time was accrued on a non US carrier. Although the carrier operated into the US, all my time was not regarded as 121.436 by my prospective US employer. The words used by the FAA regs are "under this part" which implies a US carrier. They were disappointed as was I naturally. They kindly offered me a right seat position which could mean some years (1000 hours) before I get back to the left
My question is.
Has there been a similar case where the FAA issued a waiver in this situation? Can I make an appeal to the FAA?

10-14-2017, 09:48 PM
You may wish to visit the following FAA Chief Legal Counsel letters of interpretation on the subject, linked below. In the first, Asst. Chief Counsel Mark Bury refers t previous interpretations, and reiterates that while only time under Part 121 counts toward the requirement of 14 CFR 121.436, the FAA will look at previous experience for exceptions, particularly for time logged prior to 2013 when the current regulation was codified.

That interpretation may not be helpful to your specific case, as your experience is not under a 121 carrier.

The next interpretation makes clear that other types of experience not under 121 are excluded from the experience requirement of 121.436.

You can always petition the FAA for exception. Bear in mind that such efforts can be lengthy, and frequently unproductive.

10-15-2017, 07:05 AM
JB is entirely correct. The reg is poorly written IMO, and was not well thought out. Example, someone who had 10,000 121 SIC and got furloughed on 30 Jul 2013 is good to go. Also a brand new upgrade who flew ONE SINGLE hour as PIC on 31 Jul 2013 is good to go. But an experienced 121 PIC with 10,000 hours 121 PIC who got furloughed on 30 Jul 2013 is NOT good to go (unless he has 1000 SIC too). Weird.

If I was going to petition for an amendment or exemption/waiver, it might make sense to base it on experience at foreign passenger carriers which serves the US. That way at least there's a reasonable argument that they have similar (ICAO) standards to the US (operating a red army-surplus turboprop in the Stans may not be exactly the kind of experience the rule intends).

But your time is probably better spent building 121 SIC.

10-16-2017, 09:56 AM
Unfortunately the FAA has recently denied at least one petition to allow foreign air carrier flight time to count towards the requirements of 121.436.

The basic reasoning they used was:

"The FAA concluded that, although foreign air carrier operations are similar to U.S. air carrier operations, there are significant differences related to the environment under which foreign air carrier operations are conducted, including possible cultural differences. Most importantly, pilots serving for foreign air carriers do not operate under U.S. regulations and may not have experience in the U.S. national airspace system. The FAA concluded that requiring these pilots to serve first as an SIC in part 121 operations before upgrading to PIC
is appropriate."

If you do a search at for "FAA 2016-8912", you should be able to read the full text of their decision.

Baja Boy
10-16-2017, 10:17 AM
Unfortunately the FAA has recently denied at least one petition to allow foreign air carrier flight time to count towards the requirements of 121.436."

Unfortunately, it looks like the FAA is not granting the waivers for this. Your time would be better spent building 121 SIC.