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joseolay
10-16-2017, 03:00 PM
Airbus to take majority stake in Bombardier's C-Series program | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-cseries/airbus-to-take-majority-stake-in-bombardiers-c-series-program-idUSKBN1CL328)


N6279P
10-16-2017, 03:27 PM
Sounds pretty serious.

rightside02
10-16-2017, 04:34 PM
This will hurt Boeing and possibly force them to actually build a new aircraft to replace the 737 pos variants


mainlineAF
10-16-2017, 04:45 PM
Good. Eff boeing.

disco inferno
10-16-2017, 05:35 PM
Good. Eff boeing.
I'll second that sentiment.

jdebrey
10-16-2017, 05:50 PM
Airbus to take majority stake in Bombardier's C-Series program | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-cseries/airbus-to-take-majority-stake-in-bombardiers-c-series-program-idUSKBN1CL328)



Boeing is scum to me ever since they opened this case against Bombardier

How about you stop suing your competition who is actually using cutting edge technology, unlike building another aircraft using the same frame for the last 40 years.

Pathetic.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lemons
10-16-2017, 06:19 PM
This will hurt Boeing and possibly force them to actually build a new aircraft to replace the 737 pos variants

boeing 737-11 Max

Big E 757
10-16-2017, 06:26 PM
Sounds pretty serious.

I see what you did there.

Flying Taco
10-16-2017, 06:35 PM
Why so Serious?????????:D:D

flensr
10-16-2017, 06:58 PM
boeing 737-11 Max

Same plane, mostly same cockpit, different winglets and motors. Makes the 30 yr old A320 family look and feel like the starship enterprise, which is pretty sad.

Still, it's hard to entirely blame Boeing for this... Too many 737 customers don't seem to want to pay the training and infrastructure bill, would rather buy 40 yr old design than send some of their pilots for a different type rating. Boeing gets a bad rap either way. Now they get criticized for selling a steampunk airplane, but if they told their customers that they'd have to buy a new design, they'd be blamed for the next coming apocalypse of airline training and overhead expenses.

A320 operators will get the same bad rap eventually when the next real evolution of cockpit design and system management comes out.

OCCP
10-16-2017, 07:00 PM
Boeing is scum to me ever since they opened this case against Bombardier

How about you stop suing your competition who is actually using cutting edge technology, unlike building another aircraft using the same frame for the last 40 years.

Pathetic.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Considering its the same body and flight deck shape as the 707, were looking at almost 60+ years. I hope the MAX fails.

at6d
10-16-2017, 07:58 PM
Well, I like Boeing. I hope the Max succeeds. Don't leave out the 787.

flensr
10-16-2017, 08:22 PM
Well, I like Boeing. I hope the Max succeeds. Don't leave out the 787.

Boeing is a great company but the 737 just needs to be replaced. I just don't think steampunk is a reasonable approach to modern passenger aircraft cockpit design, even if it's "how we've always done it". A 737 or A-320 sized plane with 787 cockpit and room for normal carry-on bags would make a lot of people happy. The economics are proven for that aircraft size/type and you'd hope that efficiency gains would offset the training load for operators with large 737 fleets. There might be room for purchasing incentives in the form of training program discounts, if Boeing could come to an agreement with its biggest 737 customers.

But... I'm not holding my breath. People are apparently busy discussing whether or not it makes sense to use 2 aisles in the next gen narrowbody design, and waiting for results from NASA x-plane program on various new concepts like double-bubble, BWB, and high aspect ratio external-strut wings, so existing 737 operators get what they get and please sir I want some more.

GogglesPisano
10-17-2017, 05:37 AM
Yokes need to go.

Like 30 years ago.

Imapilot2
10-17-2017, 05:49 AM
Boeing is an American company trying to aggressively protect itself. Fighting off government backed competition. No different than the way that US airlines try to protect their business too.

We should just let ME3 do US point to point Domestic flying.:cool:

joseolay
10-17-2017, 05:53 AM
C-series for US customers now assembled along side the A320 in Mobile, Alabama. The dumping despite possibly a moot point with a US assembly line for C-series delivered to US customers. The only US orders are Delta's 75 now "made in USA."

full of luv
10-17-2017, 06:18 AM
Boeing is an American company trying to aggressively protect itself. Fighting off government backed competition. No different than the way that US airlines try to protect their business too.

We should just let ME3 do US point to point Domestic flying.:cool:

Boeing doesn't make a 100 seat product, has deferred updating the pax experience and efficiency of the 737 for over 50 years other than adding new engines and engineering every inch of comfort out of the interior and uses govt subsidies to sell airplanes around the world to US Airline competitors with subsidized financing not available to US Airlines.

If you don't see a difference, then there is no help for you.

If Boeing built an updated 717 with C series improvements in fuel efficiency and pax comfort, I'd be the first to complain about dumping, but they won't.

joseolay
10-17-2017, 06:32 AM
Airbus takes control of Bombardier CSeries in rebuff to U.S. threat | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-cseries/airbus-takes-control-of-bombardier-cseries-in-rebuff-to-u-s-threat-idUSKBN1CL328)


Midnight in Toulouse: How CSeries deal shook status quo | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-strategy-analysis/midnight-in-toulouse-how-cseries-deal-shook-status-quo-idUSKBN1CM0T6)

Some speculation that Boeing and Embraer might strengthen ties further. At one point, the two were rumored at jointly working on a 100-140 seat aircraft. Boeing and Embraer are already working together on the Embraer KC-390.

Embraer and Boeing to Collaborate on Worldwide Sales, Support of KC-390 Medium Airlift (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11-Embraer-and-Boeing-to-Collaborate-on-Worldwide-Sales-Support-of-KC-390-Medium-Airlift)

joseolay
10-17-2017, 06:37 AM
The Airbus C-series deal essentially kills the A319. Airbus hasn't received new A319 orders in a few years. They're just selling the A320/321neo. The CS300 replaces the A319.

NeverHome
10-17-2017, 07:28 AM
Boeing doesn't make a 100 seat product, has deferred updating the pax experience and efficiency of the 737 for over 50 years other than adding new engines and engineering every inch of comfort out of the interior and uses govt subsidies to sell airplanes around the world to US Airline competitors with subsidized financing not available to US Airlines.

I could be wrong, but dont we need to hold the Feds accountable too? How many solid changes before they consider it a new type? Im thinking the landing gear of the -900. Point is, how much change can a manufacturer get away with (goodies)? Then comes the enormous cost of a new type. Id personally blame the gov powers that be before Id blame Bombardier. The way we treat our own aerospce companies is not stellar.

Just my half awake .02

Varsity
10-17-2017, 07:34 AM
Airbus takes control of Bombardier CSeries in rebuff to U.S. threat | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-cseries/airbus-takes-control-of-bombardier-cseries-in-rebuff-to-u-s-threat-idUSKBN1CL328)


Midnight in Toulouse: How CSeries deal shook status quo | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-strategy-analysis/midnight-in-toulouse-how-cseries-deal-shook-status-quo-idUSKBN1CM0T6)

Some speculation that Boeing and Embraer might strengthen ties further. At one point, the two were rumored at jointly working on a 100-140 seat aircraft. Boeing and Embraer are already working together on the Embraer KC-390.

Embraer and Boeing to Collaborate on Worldwide Sales, Support of KC-390 Medium Airlift (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-07-11-Embraer-and-Boeing-to-Collaborate-on-Worldwide-Sales-Support-of-KC-390-Medium-Airlift)


Boeing works with everybody in the 100 seat segment. They single handedly designed Sukhoi's SSJ-100. They are working on the MRJ.. You name it.

RWFTG
10-17-2017, 07:42 AM
Im surprised to see all the 737 hate lol

Chuck D
10-17-2017, 08:02 AM
Im surprised to see all the 737 hate lol

No kidding... gonna be harder in 2050 for our robot overlords to fly the 737 than the 797 lol!

Just be happy with that sweet trim wheel and those beautiful rubbery switches.

ReadyRsv
10-17-2017, 08:35 AM
I could be wrong, but dont we need to hold the Feds accountable too? How many solid changes before they consider it a new type? Im thinking the landing gear of the -900. Point is, how much change can a manufacturer get away with (goodies)? Then comes the enormous cost of a new type. Id personally blame the gov powers that be before Id blame Bombardier. The way we treat our own aerospce companies is not stellar.

Just my half awake .02

You are aware foreign airliners must meet US certification as well?

full of luv
10-17-2017, 08:56 AM
Im surprised to see all the 737 hate lol

You must be under 62l or never ride the FLUFs JS or youd understand.

John Carr
10-17-2017, 09:05 AM
boeing 737-11 Max

https://youtu.be/4xgx4k83zzc

galaxy flyer
10-17-2017, 11:05 AM
You must be under 62l or never ride the FLUFs JS or youd understand.

Or already be deaf! :D

GF

NeverHome
10-17-2017, 03:28 PM
You are aware foreign airliners must meet US certification as well?

Yes I am aware. Consider this though: How is the cost of a new type borne out? When we are talking billions into a new type, now we must ask who will buy the type and how much will we charge for it. So if we set a flat rate on the type, now we must consider the taxes on it. US carrier buys the type= x millions. Foreign carrier A, y millions. Foreign carrier B, z millions. US carrier over taxed for the new type, so they dont purchase the airframe or less of them. Now the manufacturer is in debt because they aren't drawing the revenue hey thought. This sets off a ripple effect. Who is going to cover these costs?!?!

Moral of the story is this: The USA doesnt stack the cards well in favor for US airlines or US manufacturers. Because of this costs and new aircraft get tricky or impossible to manage. My solution would be this: Dont over tax bombardier for the C series. Rather reduce the taxes for either Boeing, US carriers, or both.

And yes I am aware I was not very articulate, but I think this presents food for thought

The Dominican
10-17-2017, 03:44 PM
You are aware foreign airliners must meet US certification as well?

More like all ICAO member nations like the US are required to meet standards

Yabadaba
10-17-2017, 04:42 PM
Moral of the story is this: The USA doesnt stack the cards well in favor for US airlines or US manufacturers. Because of this costs and new aircraft get tricky or impossible to manage. My solution would be this: Dont over tax bombardier for the C series. Rather reduce the taxes for either Boeing, US carriers, or both.
t

Boeing received 8.7 billion in tax breaks, then laid off workers and gave out larger dividends and a 14 billion stock buyback. They complain about other companies getting subsidized but think they have seen their share.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-boeing-washington-20170503-story.html

NeverHome
10-17-2017, 05:17 PM
Boeing received 8.7 billion in tax breaks, then laid off workers and gave out larger dividends and a 14 billion stock buyback. They complain about other companies getting subsidized but think they have seen their share.

Boeing got a record tax break from Washington state and cut jobs anyway. Now the state wants to strike back - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-boeing-washington-20170503-story.html)

Fair, but still a few things to consider.
1. Boeng isnt the only Manufacturer in the US. Just because they are irresponsible doesnt change he fact that we arent giving our companies home court advantage.
2. Lesson learned, I bet WA will provide more stringent oversight in the future. They should not have been so lax with 8 billion dollar break.
3. What is it about WA that boeing finds it more cost effective to do business in other states? Odd that WA would give such a big helping hand but not address these other issues.

Again my .02

crewdawg
10-17-2017, 07:27 PM
Boeing is an American company trying to aggressively protect itself. Fighting off government backed competition. No different than the way that US airlines try to protect their business too.

We should just let ME3 do US point to point Domestic flying.:cool:

They don't seem to mind selling their WBs, via some cheap, government backed financing (EX-IM...not available to us) to our government backed competition.

A better analogy would be, should we just let the ME3 saturate markets with seats and fly to the U.S...they already do, and the U.S. government is letting them.

Boeing doesn't make a 100 seat product, has deferred updating the pax experience and efficiency of the 737 for over 50 years other than adding new engines and engineering every inch of comfort out of the interior and uses govt subsidies to sell airplanes around the world to US Airline competitors with subsidized financing not available to US Airlines.

If you don't see a difference, then there is no help for you.

If Boeing built an updated 717 with C series improvements in fuel efficiency and pax comfort, I'd be the first to complain about dumping, but they won't.

2!

SpeedyVagabond
10-18-2017, 03:13 AM
You must be under 62l or never ride the FLUFs JS or youd understand.

Or commute in the back of one in a middle seat between two average sized Americans. I can't stand riding in the 73.

FL370esq
10-18-2017, 03:51 AM
...and those beautiful rubbery switches.

You are assuming that the switch condom is still there...otherwise they become shiny, silvery switches. 😁

atpcliff
10-18-2017, 11:28 PM
Rather reduce the taxes for either Boeing

I think Boeing has avoided paying US federal income taxes for something like 5 years...really a bunch of crap!

MKUltra
10-19-2017, 01:08 AM
Fair, but still a few things to consider.
1. Boeng isnt the only Manufacturer in the US. Just because they are irresponsible doesnt change he fact that we arent giving our companies home court advantage.
2. Lesson learned, I bet WA will provide more stringent oversight in the future. They should not have been so lax with 8 billion dollar break.
3. What is it about WA that boeing finds it more cost effective to do business in other states? Odd that WA would give such a big helping hand but not address these other issues.

Again my .02

BA forced the hand of WA by threatening China manufacturing, and also opening up a non union shop in Charleston SC. China manufacturing is starting anyway and Washington has lost 20k plus jobs since 2012. Boeing will do whatever the boys in Chicago board of directors think is legal and returns the most money back to themselves, ie, the major stakeholders.

Grumble
10-23-2017, 07:39 AM
More like all ICAO member nations like the US are required to meet standards

Swing and a miss



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