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Salukidawg
10-20-2017, 03:00 PM
http://www.pprune.org/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2 Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2017%2F10%2F20%2Fair-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage%2F785344001%2F


TheRoboFighter
10-20-2017, 04:34 PM
This is going to be interesting......

Rickce7
10-20-2017, 06:43 PM
1000 pilots is no joke. . .Most likely dudes and gals that separated in the last two to three years. . .This will have a marked impact on hiring.


detpilot
10-20-2017, 07:30 PM
The question is, is this a voluntary recall?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

PNWFlyer
10-20-2017, 07:35 PM
The question is, is this a voluntary recall?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Yes! It is.

RhinoBallAuto
10-20-2017, 08:33 PM
RUMINT that I heard was these were intended to fill rated pilot billets, but weren't necessarily flying jobs.... i.e., the recalled retiree fills a hole on a staff so some other current pilot can stay in the cockpit. If the thought is to head back for currency/recency, one might inadvertently box oneself in.

Anyone heard the same?

rickair7777
10-20-2017, 09:14 PM
RUMINT that I heard was these were intended to fill rated pilot billets, but weren't necessarily flying jobs.... i.e., the recalled retiree fills a hole on a staff so some other current pilot can stay in the cockpit. If the thought is to head back for currency/recency, one might inadvertently box oneself in.

Anyone heard the same?


Likely. Why dust off an old broke retiree when they can send him to staff and keep a current guy where he is?

But if it's volunteer only, they're going to have to pony up some nice gigs, ie Stuttgart vice the 'Deid, ect.

TransWorld
10-20-2017, 09:15 PM
The question is, is this a voluntary recall?

Whether it is voluntary or not, if they are flying mostly for a major, that will cause a sudden substantial hole to fill.

That picture of the quarterback scrambling in the pocket comes to mind. It is a practice drill for about 2020 when hiring for the majors doubles from where it is today, and all h*ll breaks loose as the regionals scramble.

(A separate aside. Any thinking if there is going to be a follow up Executive Order for Navy flyers?)

Broncos
10-20-2017, 10:55 PM
Whether it is voluntary or not, if they are flying mostly for a major, that will cause a sudden substantial hole to fill.

That picture of the quarterback scrambling in the pocket comes to mind. It is a practice drill for about 2020 when hiring for the majors doubles from where it is today, and all h*ll breaks loose as the regionals scramble.

(A separate aside. Any thinking if there is going to be a follow up Executive Order for Navy flyers?)

The EO covered ALL branches.

jcountry
10-21-2017, 04:11 AM
Crazy that they are doing this while they send nearly 1/2 of all recent pilot training grads to fly drones. Any kid who likes video games could do that.

BMEP100
10-21-2017, 06:22 AM
http://www.sheerdeterminationracing.com/images/awake.jpg

deadseal
10-21-2017, 08:53 AM
Lol, good luck tryin to get dudes to come back that are now at the majors. Pay hit aside, the QOL hit would be huge. Unless they offered me 200% of whatever seat my seniority holds, there is no way I'm going to Alamogordo to teach brand new punks, or god forbid back to Del Rio by the sea. Jesus could you imagine that?
They put themselves into this pot by making everyone work 8 ancillary duties on top of flying, promoted ass kissers so good dudes said **** it I'm out, and throwing people into 6 month deployments every 18 months. The generals were told repeatedly what the problem is, but much like mx at a wing stand up that says they are 95% fmc, but the line up is 2 short first go with no spares everyday, it's all bull**** and no leader has the balls to stand up and say so.
Sorry
I stepped off, poured some gasoline, and soapbox is now on fire.

Sort of reminds you of majors crying to momma about a pilot shortage when they did it to themselves by creating the regional poverty wage model. Zero sympathy here

Lemons
10-21-2017, 09:47 AM
Seems like another mess Obama got us in that Trump has to fix.

full of luv
10-21-2017, 10:40 AM
The question is, is this a voluntary recall?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

It is now but itís always voluntary until itís not......
Maybe some will find out why ďretirement ď paperwork in the service says transfer to the IRR....

deadseal
10-21-2017, 11:22 AM
Seems like another mess Obama got us in that Trump has to fix.

Put your tin foil hat back on

detpilot
10-21-2017, 11:40 AM
Seems like another mess Obama got us in that Trump has to fix.Lol, nice try!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Lemons
10-21-2017, 12:30 PM
Put your tin foil hat back on

Tin foil?
Na, it's common knowledge the military was drawn down during the Obama years. It just wasn't his priority.

billyho
10-21-2017, 12:35 PM
Crazy that they are doing this while they send nearly 1/2 of all recent pilot training grads to fly drones. Any kid who likes video games could do that.

Hell, soon the passenger planes will be like that.

billyho
10-21-2017, 12:38 PM
Lol, good luck tryin to get dudes to come back that are now at the majors. Pay hit aside, the QOL hit would be huge. Unless they offered me 200% of whatever seat my seniority holds, there is no way I'm going to Alamogordo to teach brand new punks, or god forbid back to Del Rio by the sea. Jesus could you imagine that?
They put themselves into this pot by making everyone work 8 ancillary duties on top of flying, promoted ass kissers so good dudes said **** it I'm out, and throwing people into 6 month deployments every 18 months. The generals were told repeatedly what the problem is, but much like mx at a wing stand up that says they are 95% fmc, but the line up is 2 short first go with no spares everyday, it's all bull**** and no leader has the balls to stand up and say so.
Sorry
I stepped off, poured some gasoline, and soapbox is now on fire.

Sort of reminds you of majors crying to momma about a pilot shortage when they did it to themselves by creating the regional poverty wage model. Zero sympathy here

Winner, Winner..... Chicken Dinner.

JTwift
10-21-2017, 12:40 PM
work 8 ancillary duties on top of flying, promoted ass kissers
This is pretty much the entire retention issue in 11 words.

PRS Guitars
10-21-2017, 01:07 PM
Crazy that they are doing this while they send nearly 1/2 of all recent pilot training grads to fly drones. Any kid who likes video games could do that.

Where did you get that info? I've been instructing in a AETC for a decade and haven't seen any grads assigned drones (RPA's) for over 5 years.

PRS Guitars
10-21-2017, 01:23 PM
The executive order raised the cap from 25 to 1,000. Whether or not the pentagon excerisis that right is still up in the air.

I can tell you that they're going to have some pretty disgruntled officers if they do this. Personally, if I'm recalled, I will min run it for three years. I'll put in a 4 hour day, with a 2 hour gym break during that 4 hour day.

They need a bigger carrot, not a bigger stick. Our armed forces work well because they are all volunteer. This changes that, and will backfire.

JTwift
10-21-2017, 01:26 PM
The executive order raised the cap from 25 to 1,000. Whether or not the pentagon excerisis that right is still up in the air.

I can tell you that they're going to have some pretty disgruntled officers if they do this. Personally, if I'm recalled, I will min run it for three years. I'll put in a 4 hour day, with a 2 hour gym break during that 4 hour day.

They need a bigger carrot, not a bigger stick. Our armed forces work well because they are all volunteer. This changes that, and will backfire.

I guarantee the recall won't include any bonuses and you will be ineligible for promotion. If they want people to come back, they need to do one or both.

PRS Guitars
10-21-2017, 01:33 PM
I guarantee the recall won't include any bonuses and you will be ineligible for promotion. If they want people to come back, they need to do one or both.

You're right. I'd actually consider volunteering, if they promoted me right now to O5 and provided a $100k per year bonus. And I'd even fly a desk and be productive (unlike my comments above, if they don't offer a bonus & promotion).

tomgoodman
10-21-2017, 02:01 PM
Itís like the draft in reverse ... instead of nuggets, they get figmos. :p

sulkair
10-21-2017, 02:25 PM
The executive order raised the cap from 25 to 1,000. Whether or not the pentagon excerisis that right is still up in the air.

I can tell you that they're going to have some pretty disgruntled officers if they do this. Personally, if I'm recalled, I will min run it for three years. I'll put in a 4 hour day, with a 2 hour gym break during that 4 hour day.

They need a bigger carrot, not a bigger stick. Our armed forces work well because they are all volunteer. This changes that, and will backfire.


Not flaming - honest question. Didn't you volunteer to be in this recallable status?

I was enlisted so maybe it's different, but I knew I would have 3 years IRR after my active service. Not saying I would have been happy to be recalled, but I did sign my name to the possibility.

rickair7777
10-21-2017, 02:34 PM
Not flaming - honest question. Didn't you volunteer to be in this recallable status?

I was enlisted so it's possibly different, but I knew I would have 3 years IRR after my active service. Not saying I would have been happy to be recalled, but I did sign my name to the possibility.


EVERYBODY is on the hook for no less than eight years when they INITIALLY join the service in ANY capacity. Those who leave AD or even the reserves inside of eight years automatically go to the IRR and stay there until at least the eight year mark. They are subject to recall, it's happened but it's very rare.

If you retire it's actually called "retainer pay", and it's like being in the IRR... they can, and rarely do, recall people involuntarily. Once you get to a certain age, you actually become retired.

PRS Guitars
10-21-2017, 03:41 PM
Not flaming - honest question. Didn't you volunteer to be in this recallable status?



Fair question. And yes I knew this when I signed up. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't a good way to go. My (and most other airline pilots) give a **** factor will be pretty low after uprooting my family to move to a small town we don't want to live in, have to sell our house, take a 50% pay cut, working more hours. Will I do it, of course...will I like it, hell no.

The Air Force has a retention problem, they can fix it in better ways than this. How about using the bonus to $75k a year, that'd probably solve the problem. $100k for sure would. Additionally, improvements in queep work, non flying jobs, additional duties need to be made. The AF is competing with airlines for retention (not recruitment by the way, I assure you there is no shortage of young Ltís wanting to be AF pilots). Itís a pilots market now, so they have to match airline potential. Just like they have to entice Doctors and Dentists. Their other option is to have a twenty year commitment after wings, but then they would have a recruitment problem...

rickair7777
10-21-2017, 03:58 PM
Not flaming - honest question. Didn't you volunteer to be in this recallable status?

I was enlisted so maybe it's different, but I knew I would have 3 years IRR after my active service. Not saying I would have been happy to be recalled, but I did sign my name to the possibility.

Also... philosophically, the provision to recall retirees really exists in the event of mass mobilization, ie WWIII, alien invasion, etc.

It's not unreasonable to be peeved if the USAF is abusing this provision to paper over their abysmal force management and cultural issues.

dingo222
10-21-2017, 04:20 PM
This sounds like "stop/loss" for some of us enlisted guys. Retention dropped even lower after stop/loss was lifted. DOD got what they wanted though. Bullsh*t if you asked me.

galaxy flyer
10-21-2017, 04:43 PM
Age 60 is statutory limit for officers at O-8 and below and all enlisted. Thatís when youíre really retired, as I understand it.

GF

rickair7777
10-21-2017, 05:33 PM
This sounds like "stop/loss" for some of us enlisted guys. Retention dropped even lower after stop/loss was lifted. DOD got what they wanted though. Bullsh*t if you asked me.

They do stoploss for officers too. This is kind of like retro-active stopless (if it ends up invol).

Sliceback
10-21-2017, 05:36 PM
Isn't this a continuation of the 'national emergency' statute.

What's the national emergency?? Poor planning, for years, suddenly becomes a national emergency?

sulkair
10-21-2017, 06:57 PM
Fair question. And yes I knew this when I signed up. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't a good way to go. My (and most other airline pilots) give a **** factor will be pretty low after uprooting my family to move to a small town we don't want to live in, have to sell our house, take a 50% pay cut, working more hours. Will I do it, of course...will I like it, hell no.

The Air Force has a retention problem, they can fix it in better ways than this. How about using the bonus to $75k a year, that'd probably solve the problem. $100k for sure would. Additionally, improvements in queep work, non flying jobs, additional duties need to be made. The AF is competing with airlines for retention (not recruitment by the way, I assure you there is no shortage of young Ltís wanting to be AF pilots). Itís a pilots market now, so they have to match airline potential. Just like they have to entice Doctors and Dentists. Their other option is to have a twenty year commitment after wings, but then they would have a recruitment problem...

I get what you're saying now - all good points.

Viperstick
10-21-2017, 08:25 PM
Random neuron firings...

1) Being a fighter pilot is/was the coolest, best job in the world...as long as you were physically in the jet flying.

2) This isn't a national emergency, this is a seasonal Pentagon brush fire because they've fornicated away their rated staff manning since Moses was found in the reeds. They'll be paying guys to leave next year, just like they did a couple of years ago.

3) They're not short pilots, they just don't have enough rated slaves churning out Powerpoint for the 1300 daily stand up at <insert NAF or higher staff here>.

4) The generals all knew this was coming. A buddy who was an Air Staff exec told me that at a Corona back in the 2010 time frame the big wigs talked about this and decided to punt until the tsunami hit. Besides, it wouldn't be them who had to clean up the mess, it would be their sycophantic proteges who'd get to solicit suggestions from the good idea fairies.

5) TAMI-21. Karma's a beotch.

6) DTS, ADLS, dry "heritage rooms," the 2012 health/welfare inspection, developmental education, masters degrees, <insert ethnic minority here> History Month, "your resume is a little light on extra curricular activities," tucking in your PT shirt...plus the other 990 paper cuts I'm too tired to list...

7) 27+ years of continuous contingency operations.

8) Moving F-16 FTU to Holloman when we needed more fighter pilots, despite being advised it would cost $90+ million to train 20% fewer pilots due to Holloman LIMFACs.

9) A better plan would be to make these staff jobs GS positions and pay a bonus for the type of experience you want. W prefix? How about $25K more per year. You'd get someone for a longer period of time who actually wants to be there. But slave labor is cheaper...

10) An involuntary rated recall will all but guarantee henceforth no one will stay in past their initial commitment if there are opportunities on the outside.

Hueypilot
10-21-2017, 08:48 PM
I understand this is intended to primarily be a voluntary rated recall. This amendment (Trump merely amended the 2001 authorization) allows the services to recall using article 688 and 690. 688 is fairly broad, but includes 688a, which is a voluntary recall limited to 1,000 officers for 3-year tours.

I doubt they get anywhere close to 1,000. However I do know a few retirees that did not go to the airlines and chose to pursue other activities. Some of those guys (and gals) may choose to do this.

Even if they get their magic 1,000 volunteers, that still leaves them short. I think they need to create a "fly only" career track (limited to O-5 and below) and raise the bonus to $50,000 a year with 1-2 year commitments that can be renewed on a year-to-year basis.

They should also reach out to guys in that separated, and offer 1 to 3-year active terms, guarantees to remain in the cockpit, with a minimum of $50,000 annual bonus. You might get a number of airline pilots to drop 3 years of mil leave to try and get to their 20 with that scheme.

WHACKMASTER
10-21-2017, 08:52 PM
Lol, good luck tryin to get dudes to come back that are now at the majors. Pay hit aside, the QOL hit would be huge. Unless they offered me 200% of whatever seat my seniority holds, there is no way I'm going to Alamogordo to teach brand new punks, or god forbid back to Del Rio by the sea. Jesus could you imagine that?
They put themselves into this pot by making everyone work 8 ancillary duties on top of flying, promoted ass kissers so good dudes said **** it I'm out, and throwing people into 6 month deployments every 18 months. The generals were told repeatedly what the problem is, but much like mx at a wing stand up that says they are 95% fmc, but the line up is 2 short first go with no spares everyday, it's all bull**** and no leader has the balls to stand up and say so.
Sorry
I stepped off, poured some gasoline, and soapbox is now on fire.

Sort of reminds you of majors crying to momma about a pilot shortage when they did it to themselves by creating the regional poverty wage model. Zero sympathy here

Bingo. I have ZERO sympathy for the regionals and the situation they created for themselves and if the military did this to themselves as well then they can go pound sand.

LumberJack
10-22-2017, 01:13 AM
Isn't this a continuation of the 'national emergency' statute.

What's the national emergency?? Poor planning, for years, suddenly becomes a national emergency?

This amendment (Trump merely amended the 2001 authorization) allows the services to recall using article 688 and 690. 688 is fairly broad, but includes 688a, which is a voluntary recall limited to 1,000 officers for 3-year tours.

From another thread:

Executive order 13223 declared a temporary state of emergency after the September 11 attacks and allowed the president to call up the National Guard, hire and fire officers, and delay retirements. It has been renewed by every president since, including Trump, but under the previous version only 25 retired officers could to be called back to active duty. Trump's amendment expands that authority.


"The authorities available for use during a national emergency ... are also invoked and made available, according to their terms, to the Secretary concerned, subject in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, to the direction of the Secretary of Defense," the amended order reads.

The Air Force now has the power to recall up to 1000 retired pilots to address its personnel crisis
Air Force can recall 1,000 retired pilots to address personnel crisis - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-can-recall-1000-retired-pilots-to-address-personnel-crisis-2017-10)

My brother in law is a prime target for this. I'm very sorry for those of you that are worried. I hope it works out for the best and thank you all for your service(s)...

StrykerB21
10-22-2017, 02:44 AM
You guys should have been in the infantry during the height of the Iraq war. Think its hard leaving Delta behind for a few years doing power point slides? Try getting shot at and blown up.

Han Solo
10-22-2017, 04:40 AM
Random neuron firings...

1) Being a fighter pilot is/was the coolest, best job in the world...as long as you were physically in the jet flying.

2) This isn't a national emergency, this is a seasonal Pentagon brush fire because they've fornicated away their rated staff manning since Moses was found in the reeds. They'll be paying guys to leave next year, just like they did a couple of years ago.

3) They're not short pilots, they just don't have enough rated slaves churning out Powerpoint for the 1300 daily stand up at <insert NAF or higher staff here>.

4) The generals all knew this was coming. A buddy who was an Air Staff exec told me that at a Corona back in the 2010 time frame the big wigs talked about this and decided to punt until the tsunami hit. Besides, it wouldn't be them who had to clean up the mess, it would be their sycophantic proteges who'd get to solicit suggestions from the good idea fairies.

5) TAMI-21. Karma's a beotch.

6) DTS, ADLS, dry "heritage rooms," the 2012 health/welfare inspection, developmental education, masters degrees, <insert ethnic minority here> History Month, "your resume is a little light on extra curricular activities," tucking in your PT shirt...plus the other 990 paper cuts I'm too tired to list...

7) 27+ years of continuous contingency operations.

8) Moving F-16 FTU to Holloman when we needed more fighter pilots, despite being advised it would cost $90+ million to train 20% fewer pilots due to Holloman LIMFACs.

9) A better plan would be to make these staff jobs GS positions and pay a bonus for the type of experience you want. W prefix? How about $25K more per year. You'd get someone for a longer period of time who actually wants to be there. But slave labor is cheaper...

10) An involuntary rated recall will all but guarantee henceforth no one will stay in past their initial commitment if there are opportunities on the outside.

exactly

If this were a true national emergency as the law requires and this was a Red Dawn situation I'd be 1st in line with my musket but we all know that this "emergency" is a paperwork drill resulting from years of political and leadership ineptitude. In the face of tyranny I think many would obey the "law" and then practice some of that fantastic resistance training that was instilled upon us shortly after graduating pilot training.

Vincent Chase
10-22-2017, 05:13 AM
Crazy that they are doing this while they send nearly 1/2 of all recent pilot training grads to fly drones. Any kid who likes video games could do that.
Wow. What rock have you been under? The RPA world has their own pipeline. It's been in place for over 5 years now.

Vincent Chase
10-22-2017, 05:16 AM
They put themselves into this pot by making everyone work 8 ancillary duties on top of flying, promoted ass kissers so good dudes said **** it I'm out, and throwing people into 6 month deployments every 18 months. The generals were told repeatedly what the problem is, but much like mx at a wing stand up that says they are 95% fmc, but the line up is 2 short first go with no spares everyday, it's all bull**** and no leader has the balls to stand up and say so.


Dude, I think you were listening to me talk to a couple of my bros yesterday. I said the same exact thing!

As for not having the balls to stand up, these "leaders" are only in the chair a couple years, max. That's probably why the Corona 2010 consensus was to punt. Where are those generals today? My guess is in Air Force Village outside of San Antonio or The Villages in Florida. But hey. They served their country well.

Flying Boxes
10-22-2017, 05:19 AM
From another thread:



The Air Force now has the power to recall up to 1000 retired pilots to address its personnel crisis
Air Force can recall 1,000 retired pilots to address personnel crisis - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-can-recall-1000-retired-pilots-to-address-personnel-crisis-2017-10)

My brother in law is a prime target for this. I'm very sorry for those of you that are worried. I hope it works out for the best and thank you all for your service(s)...

I understand what you are saying, but many of the pilots on here have also been shot at. :eek:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!! (infantry suck factor is really bad I'm sure)

rickair7777
10-22-2017, 06:45 AM
You guys should have been in the infantry during the height of the Iraq war. Think its hard leaving Delta behind for a few years doing power point slides? Try getting shot at and blown up.


They already served. And retired. And there's no real emergency.

If they were reserves whining about recalls, different story, I would say tough titties. That's par for the course if you choose to be in the guard/reserve.

StrykerB21
10-22-2017, 07:34 AM
They already served. And retired. And there's no real emergency.

If they were reserves whining about recalls, different story, I would say tough titties. That's par for the course if you choose to be in the guard/reserve.

Just providing a little perspective. Things could be much worse.

Han Solo
10-22-2017, 07:56 AM
Just providing a little perspective. Things could be much worse.

No, you're adding worthless commentary like an ignorant civilian armchair general. The two situations are completely different and even if they weren't, they have zero bearing on each other.

Look how stupid this sounds. Maybe you infantry guys from the Iraq war should just be glad you weren't part of the nuclear testing my grandfather was subjected to in the 50s. Things can always be worse...

C130driver
10-22-2017, 08:18 AM
Just providing a little perspective. Things could be much worse.

Youíre not providing any perspective, you are just being self righteous and your arguement is irrelevant. These are men and women who have served honorably.

Sputnik
10-22-2017, 12:28 PM
Just providing a little perspective. Things could be much worse.

Dude, swing and a miss.

Getting stop lossed to be a bullet magnet in a hostile fire zone kinda implies there actually is some national level emergency.

This allows the mil to involuntarily recall retired guys not to stop the Ruskies at the Fulda Gap, not even to fly any sort of aircraft. Its to fill rated staff positions. Thus all the powerpoint remarks.

The fact that it could suck worse is utterly irrelevant.

hvydvr
10-22-2017, 12:33 PM
You guys should have been in the infantry during the height of the Iraq war. Think its hard leaving Delta behind for a few years doing power point slides? Try getting shot at and blown up.

No. Thatís why we became pilots.

sulkair
10-22-2017, 04:55 PM
No. That’s why we became pilots.

While I agree with the others that his comparison is invalid and irrelevant. I find your comment distasteful and even more self righteous than his.

If it's a joke and I just need to lighten up, so be it. I just don't find it funny.

galaxy flyer
10-22-2017, 05:02 PM
No. That’s why we became pilots.

As a USAF pilot that lost, at last count, 9 friends in fighter accidents and barely survived a very low altitude mid-air, I don’t think becoming a pilot was the easiest of routes. But, we all signed on the dotted line. As Gen Larry Welch used say, “you only volunteer once”.

GF

hvydvr
10-22-2017, 06:37 PM
While I agree with the others that his comparison is invalid and irrelevant. I find your comment distasteful and even more self righteous than his.

If it's a joke and I just need to lighten up, so be it. I just don't find it funny.

You probably just need to lighten up.

Hrkdrivr
10-22-2017, 09:01 PM
More of the same short-sighted pilot management they've been practicing for the last 40+ years.

Just 4 years ago they SERBed (Selective Early Retirement Board - i.e. forcibly retired) 30% of the retirement-eligible O-5s and O-6s, and RIFed (Reduction in Force) a bunch of O-3s and O-4s...the very demographic they're desperate for now.

AFTrainerGuy
10-23-2017, 05:10 AM
Crazy that they are doing this while they send nearly 1/2 of all recent pilot training grads to fly drones. Any kid who likes video games could do that.

As a UPT instructor I can tell you this statement is so far from the truth itís not even remotely correct. 1-3 max outta a class of 25-30. Sometimes none at all.

AFTrainerGuy
10-23-2017, 05:19 AM
Furthermore, most of those 1-3 are students who came to UPT in a Guard/Reserve unit knowing they were going to RPAís

JTwift
10-23-2017, 08:52 AM
More of the same short-sighted pilot management they've been practicing for the last 40+ years.

Just 4 years ago they SERBed (Selective Early Retirement Board - i.e. forcibly retired) 30% of the retirement-eligible O-5s and O-6s, and RIFed (Reduction in Force) a bunch of O-3s and O-4s...the very demographic they're desperate for now.

You forgot TERA (Temporary Early Retirement Authority). I know quite a few O4/O5-types who get approved for the early retirement at their 14-19 year mark.

Albief15
10-23-2017, 07:56 PM
Random neuron firings...

1) Being a fighter pilot is/was the coolest, best job in the world...as long as you were physically in the jet flying.

2) This isn't a national emergency, this is a seasonal Pentagon brush fire because they've fornicated away their rated staff manning since Moses was found in the reeds. They'll be paying guys to leave next year, just like they did a couple of years ago.

3) They're not short pilots, they just don't have enough rated slaves churning out Powerpoint for the 1300 daily stand up at <insert NAF or higher staff here>.

4) The generals all knew this was coming. A buddy who was an Air Staff exec told me that at a Corona back in the 2010 time frame the big wigs talked about this and decided to punt until the tsunami hit. Besides, it wouldn't be them who had to clean up the mess, it would be their sycophantic proteges who'd get to solicit suggestions from the good idea fairies.

5) TAMI-21. Karma's a beotch.

6) DTS, ADLS, dry "heritage rooms," the 2012 health/welfare inspection, developmental education, masters degrees, <insert ethnic minority here> History Month, "your resume is a little light on extra curricular activities," tucking in your PT shirt...plus the other 990 paper cuts I'm too tired to list...

7) 27+ years of continuous contingency operations.

8) Moving F-16 FTU to Holloman when we needed more fighter pilots, despite being advised it would cost $90+ million to train 20% fewer pilots due to Holloman LIMFACs.

9) A better plan would be to make these staff jobs GS positions and pay a bonus for the type of experience you want. W prefix? How about $25K more per year. You'd get someone for a longer period of time who actually wants to be there. But slave labor is cheaper...

10) An involuntary rated recall will all but guarantee henceforth no one will stay in past their initial commitment if there are opportunities on the outside.

Random? I would say absolutely laser focused and 100% correct.

Having senior enlisted **** on me about a (previously authorized) squadron morale patch while deployed to PSAB, and getting my TENT inspected by same was more than enough for me to say "FU". We will put up with the enemy trying to kill us, but covering us in our bases with gallons of stupid was just too much insult to injury. I'll come back to shoot Migs or direct Airstrikes, but when we don't have enough shooting going on the local leadership always seemed to find a way to try to make Hell suck even more. Once a guy sees daylight--well--good luck gettin' 'em back.

Green Dot, etc just took the same crap and put in an a centrifuge to concentrate the bull**** to a more concentrated form. I left in 2007, but as a coach I hear the stories all the time from the guys leaving, and I can only shake my head in stunned silence.

rickair7777
10-23-2017, 09:28 PM
Damn Albie, tell us what you really think.

Han Solo
10-24-2017, 03:09 AM
Just words which could easily be retracted but better than saying the opposite I suppose.

And while the programís authorities allow the Air Force to involuntarily recall retirees ― which was also the case before Trump expanded the program ― Koscheski stressed that it will remain a voluntary program.

ďWe are an all-volunteer force,Ē Koscheski said. ďThat is our focus. Even with these [involuntary] authorities that came with the package deal, if you will, the focus on this program was to get access to more retirees in a volunteer program.Ē

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/10/23/air-force-pilots-recalled-under-trump-order-will-serve-as-instructors-staff/

Here's something else I found at least mildly entertaining. They are willing to make guys UPT instructors and according to the article IPs would not be subject to deployments and staff officers would only deploy on a voluntary basis. How many people would have stayed in if these were the rules in the 1st place? I specifically retired to avoid a fini-deployment that was on the books. Certainly BoBo the wonderchimp with only mild Down's Syndrome could check those .ppt slides for matching fonts as well as I could have...

hvydvr
10-24-2017, 10:08 AM
Here's something else I found at least mildly entertaining. They are willing to make guys UPT instructors and according to the article IPs would not be subject to deployments and staff officers would only deploy on a voluntary basis. How many people would have stayed in if these were the rules in the 1st place? I specifically retired to avoid a fini-deployment that was on the books. Certainly BoBo the wonderchimp with only mild Down's Syndrome could check those .ppt slides for matching fonts as well as I could have...

DO NOT buy this line. I have a friend who went back in the last wave for three years. T-1 IP to Del Rio. One year in and BLAM ďHereís your one year remote to the UAE. Iím sorry. I didnít make that promise that you werenít deployable.Ē

C130driver
10-24-2017, 10:30 AM
Random? I would say absolutely laser focused and 100% correct.

Having senior enlisted **** on me about a (previously authorized) squadron morale patch while deployed to PSAB, and getting my TENT inspected by same was more than enough for me to say "FU". We will put up with the enemy trying to kill us, but covering us in our bases with gallons of stupid was just too much insult to injury. I'll come back to shoot Migs or direct Airstrikes, but when we don't have enough shooting going on the local leadership always seemed to find a way to try to make Hell suck even more. Once a guy sees daylight--well--good luck gettin' 'em back.

Green Dot, etc just took the same crap and put in an a centrifuge to concentrate the bull**** to a more concentrated form. I left in 2007, but as a coach I hear the stories all the time from the guys leaving, and I can only shake my head in stunned silence.

Nothing has changed sir: at a certain deployed location now, the local nationals are allowed to enter your room,without your permission, to conduct random room inspections. This includes making sure you make your bed. These people donít even pay attention to crew rest signs..

Lobaeux
10-24-2017, 01:40 PM
Iím curious what will happen to the AD guys that get sent back to the cockpit from a staff tour in regards to promotion. Recently I hear itís a 100% promotion rate to Major, I wonder how this will affect the promotion boards.

As a retiree within the last five years, Iím not too worried as this is a voluntary recall, which I canít imagine too many guys will jump on. Once the rumors of a mandatory recall start filtering out, then Iíll worry.



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