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View Full Version : Reserve rule question


AYLflyer
10-24-2017, 06:56 AM
Have a question for those with experience on reserve. I've been searching through the FSM but can't find a solid answer.

Scenario:

3 day block of reserve. Scheduling assigns you a 3 day trip on day 1 that ends early AM on day 3. Due to delays you don't finish until approx 3am on day 3. Can you be assigned a SCL block 10 hours later on the same calendar day and go fly again?

I was told by a couple guys I've flown with in the past that you can't go back on short call after flying a trip until the next calendar day. I also thought we had a rule about same day assignments, but I'm sitting here with a SCL assignment, even though I already technically flew today (Albeit very early AM). I can't seem to find anything in the FSM about it.


hilltopflyer
10-24-2017, 07:03 AM
Have a question for those with experience on reserve. I've been searching through the FSM but can't find a solid answer.

Scenario:

3 day block of reserve. Scheduling assigns you a 3 day trip on day 1 that ends early AM on day 3. Due to delays you don't finish until approx 3am on day 3. Can you be assigned a SCL block 10 hours later on the same calendar day and go fly again?

I was told by a couple guys I've flown with in the past that you can't go back on short call after flying a trip until the next calendar day. I also thought we had a rule about same day assignments, but I'm sitting here with a SCL assignment, even though I already technically flew today (Albeit very early AM). I can't seem to find anything in the FSM about it.
I don't think 3 am counts as flying into the next day. Could be wrong

pilotpayne
10-24-2017, 07:20 AM
Have a question for those with experience on reserve. I've been searching through the FSM but can't find a solid answer.

Scenario:

3 day block of reserve. Scheduling assigns you a 3 day trip on day 1 that ends early AM on day 3. Due to delays you don't finish until approx 3am on day 3. Can you be assigned a SCL block 10 hours later on the same calendar day and go fly again?

I was told by a couple guys I've flown with in the past that you can't go back on short call after flying a trip until the next calendar day. I also thought we had a rule about same day assignments, but I'm sitting here with a SCL assignment, even though I already technically flew today (Albeit very early AM). I can't seem to find anything in the FSM about it.


So they gave you a 3 day trip and you have 3 days of reserve and after that a day off?

If that is the case you are done when that trip ends. If it's 3 days. You don't owe them another reserve time.

That is if I understand exactly what you are saying.


AYLflyer
10-24-2017, 07:23 AM
I don't think 3 am counts as flying into the next day. Could be wrong

Not sure what you mean by that? When does a jetblue day start?

rollieman
10-24-2017, 07:23 AM
Have a question for those with experience on reserve. I've been searching through the FSM but can't find a solid answer.

Scenario:

3 day block of reserve. Scheduling assigns you a 3 day trip on day 1 that ends early AM on day 3. Due to delays you don't finish until approx 3am on day 3. Can you be assigned a SCL block 10 hours later on the same calendar day and go fly again?

I was told by a couple guys I've flown with in the past that you can't go back on short call after flying a trip until the next calendar day. I also thought we had a rule about same day assignments, but I'm sitting here with a SCL assignment, even though I already technically flew today (Albeit very early AM). I can't seem to find anything in the FSM about it.

Same scenario happened to me a few months ago. I couldn't find any guidance either. I called crew services and questioned the legality and necessity of the SCL. After speaking with a supervisor they quickly released me.

AYLflyer
10-24-2017, 07:36 AM
So they gave you a 3 day trip and you have 3 days of reserve and after that a day off?

If that is the case you are done when that trip ends. If it's 3 days. You don't owe them another reserve time.

That is if I understand exactly what you are saying.


Yeah, sorry let me clarify this better. The footprint of the trip falls on my normal 3 day block of reserve days. I was called late on day 1 (5pm) and ended early AM on day 3. The trip did not go into my day off, it just ended super early day 3. So they assigned me SCL for later on the same day after a 10hr rest break.

launchpad
10-24-2017, 07:36 AM
Look at section D.14 then find the definition of red-eye period... Then make sure the scheduling committee knows about it... It was probably overlooked because the reserve period was legal as scheduled/assigned, but not as flown.

pilotpayne
10-24-2017, 08:18 AM
Yeah, sorry let me clarify this better. The footprint of the trip falls on my normal 3 day block of reserve days. I was called late on day 1 (5pm) and ended early AM on day 3. The trip did not go into my day off, it just ended super early day 3. So they assigned me SCL for later on the same day after a 10hr rest break.


I'm pretty sure you are done.
Did you call CS?

captsurf
10-24-2017, 09:11 AM
If you flew through a red-eye period as a reserve, you're not able to be assigned a pairing assignment until 0800L the NEXT calendar day. In your case that would be a day off. However, this only applies if you operate at least 2hrs inside a red-eye period (0100-0500). So if you duty-out 0300L or later, you're covered. If you duty-out 0259L or earlier, it's less than 2hrs so this provision wouldn't apply.

AYLflyer
10-24-2017, 09:43 AM
Figured it out. Thanks for all the input! Captsurf is spot on. I flew in the redeye period but was just under the 2hr mark, so unfortunately it looks like it's a legal assignment.

CaptCoolHand
10-24-2017, 10:19 AM
Figured it out. Thanks for all the input! Captsurf is spot on. I flew in the redeye period but was just under the 2hr mark, so unfortunately it looks like it's a legal assignment.

never fly fatigued. especially if your circadian rhythm was disrupted by delays.

Legal isn't always safe.

rvr1800
10-24-2017, 10:29 AM
never fly fatigued. especially if your circadian rhythm was disrupted by delays.

Legal isn't always safe.

^^^^^what he said

WhistlePig
10-24-2017, 10:29 AM
Figured it out. Thanks for all the input! Captsurf is spot on. I flew in the redeye period but was just under the 2hr mark, so unfortunately it looks like it's a legal assignment.

So you are back on at 1300 on Day 3/3 until when? 2300? Would you extend if requested?

hilltopflyer
10-24-2017, 01:14 PM
So you are back on at 1300 on Day 3/3 until when? 2300? Would you extend if requested?

*#%! no. No waivers no favors

Rabid Seagull
10-24-2017, 01:31 PM
Figured it out. Thanks for all the input! Captsurf is spot on. I flew in the redeye period but was just under the 2hr mark, so unfortunately it looks like it's a legal assignment.

Interesting dilemma. A question for you AYL, when you were assigned the trip does the pairing indicate "3-day" on it? You say you were on a 3-day block so I assume it was an official 3-day, but I have seen trips given to me that finished at 0100 listed as a 2-day and a 3-day.

Alongside unicorns, try finding anywhere it lists that 0100 is actually the day before and doesn't count for the next day. It's right next to where the company describes AM / PM and how they assign it.

Good luck

AYLflyer
10-25-2017, 10:13 AM
never fly fatigued. especially if your circadian rhythm was disrupted by delays.

Legal isn't always safe.

Been down this road before with previous employers. I've made the mistake of saying "I'll tough it out" earlier in my career, it's not worth it, especially when the delays start adding up and weather is in the mix.

Can honestly say I didn't feel fit for duty at all which is why I posed the question. They ended up calling me just a few min prior to release time. I fatigued it.


So you are back on at 1300 on Day 3/3 until when? 2300? Would you extend if requested?

Nope. I don't extend. We have reserves for a reason.

Interesting dilemma. A question for you AYL, when you were assigned the trip does the pairing indicate "3-day" on it? You say you were on a 3-day block so I assume it was an official 3-day, but I have seen trips given to me that finished at 0100 listed as a 2-day and a 3-day.

Alongside unicorns, try finding anywhere it lists that 0100 is actually the day before and doesn't count for the next day. It's right next to where the company describes AM / PM and how they assign it.

Good luck

It does indicate 3 day, and scheduling even said 3 day pairing when they notified me.

dontsurf
10-25-2017, 09:54 PM
Been down this road before with previous employers. I've made the mistake of saying "I'll tough it out" earlier in my career, it's not worth it, especially when the delays start adding up and weather is in the mix.

Can honestly say I didn't feel fit for duty at all which is why I posed the question. They ended up calling me just a few min prior to release time. I fatigued it.




Nope. I don't extend. We have reserves for a reason.



It does indicate 3 day, and scheduling even said 3 day pairing when they notified me.

i had the exact same situation happen when i was jfk 320 reserve. the captain told me he thought if we got done after 0200, i was off the hook, so we got done at 0203. then crew support spent about 40 minutes on the phone explaining to me that it is 0300 that is the cutoff, like you learned.

it is a weird situation that almost never comes up, it seems, but it should be taught so we know it ahead of time. and of course it should be (and i'm sure it will be) covered in the cba.



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