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ASCapt
10-30-2017, 07:45 PM
Scope:
None

Retirement:
Nov 1 2017 = 15% DC
Jan 1 2019 = 15.5% DC


Pay:

https://s1.postimg.org/1q5q2tvu2n/Untitled.png


RiddleEagle18
10-30-2017, 08:27 PM
Min calendar day?

Other work rules?


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Bugaboo
10-30-2017, 08:33 PM
Min calendar day?

Other work rules?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scope, Retirement, and Pay rates were the only things on the table. These results were handed down by an arbitration panel due to Alaska and ALPA not being able to negotiate amongst themselves. Arbitrators sided with Alaka mgt for the most part.
The rest of the contract opens up to Sec 6 in a couple years. No f ing around then I would hope.


rightside02
10-31-2017, 01:47 AM
I will admit in an not vastly educated in the process , but how does an arbitrator side with the company on zero scope constraints !?!? I mean put some protections in there for the other group .

IDIOTPILOT
10-31-2017, 03:31 AM
I will admit in an not vastly educated in the process , but how does an arbitrator side with the company on zero scope constraints !?!? I mean put some protections in there for the other group .

The way they put it is the company hasn't violated the spirit of proposed scope and it's a complex issue that is best handled in direct negotiation.

FL370esq
10-31-2017, 04:33 AM
Didn't Alaska go to arbitration several years ago? Pretty sure the pilots came up with the short end of the stick in that one..

FLYBOYMATTHEW
10-31-2017, 06:20 AM
My pay per actual hour blocked would still be less under that pay scale than what it is here under current book with paid transition conflict, vacation, and training drops. How much soft time are you paid here in a given year?

shfo
10-31-2017, 08:00 AM
Min calendar day?

Other work rules?



From the UAL contract comparison:

5:00 av duty period guarantee

1:2 duty rig

1:1.75 wocl duty rig

1:3.5 trip rig

no uniform expenses

no passport/visa expenses

meal/internet reimbursed on dh

short call 79 hr guar, 15 hour raps, 8 days off

Long call 75 hr guarantee 12 days off

parking only in domicile

no hotels for new hires, training in base, or lost RON in base

line holders 8 days off, lines built to 75-85 hrs allowed flex up to 88 a few times a year

I have verified the 8 days off with a friend who is a new hire. Has the 1745 RAP and his day "off" starts at 1245 PM. Guess they get 288 hours off a month on reserve.

echelon
10-31-2017, 08:53 AM
The way they put it is the company hasn't violated the spirit of proposed scope and it's a complex issue that is best handled in direct negotiation.

In other words... "They haven't done it YET and that's somehow a rationale to keep anything from being put in writing to prevent them from inevitably doing it in the future."

Unreal. Didn't BM even specifically talk about reconfiguring the Q400's for 88 seats in his testimony?

Also from the full text of the award:
That the parties have failed to reach an agreement adding these enhanced protections
in past negotiations is not only a reflection of its intricacy but also its relative lack of
urgency.

WHAT?? What the [email protected] does that even mean? One party (company) completely refuses to negotiate on scope and therefore it's not an urgent issue for the other party (pilots)?? How does that even make sense?

FlyAK
10-31-2017, 10:02 AM
Iím pretty sure Alaska ďmade it worth their whileĒ to judge the way they did. Itís the only logical way I can get to the arbitrators ruling.

I guess the lesson is, never again agree to binding arbitration in any section of the contract...

Pogey Bait
10-31-2017, 10:10 AM
Iím pretty sure Alaska ďmade it worth their whileĒ to judge the way they did. Itís the only logical way I can get to the arbitrators ruling.

I guess the lesson is, never again agree to binding arbitration in any section of the contract...

Yep.........

ImperialxRat
10-31-2017, 11:10 AM
From the UAL contract comparison:

5:00 av duty period guarantee

1:2 duty rig

1:1.75 wocl duty rig

1:3.5 trip rig

no uniform expenses

no passport/visa expenses

meal/internet reimbursed on dh

short call 79 hr guar, 15 hour raps, 8 days off

Long call 75 hr guarantee 12 days off

parking only in domicile

no hotels for new hires, training in base, or lost RON in base

line holders 8 days off, lines built to 75-85 hrs allowed flex up to 88 a few times a year

I have verified the 8 days off with a friend who is a new hire. Has the 1745 RAP and his day "off" starts at 1245 PM. Guess they get 288 hours off a month on reserve.

Are you talking about current Alaska reserve rules or former Virgin work rules? Because Alaska has 12 days off a month for reserves. RAP (Reserve Availability Period) is 14 hours, however the company can ask you to extend 1 hour. I don't remember why the days off on the schedule are listed 5 hours after the RAP period ends... I asked a scheduler once but I cannot remember.

Every month if you're on reserve they build the schedule with one 5-day, one 3-day, and two 2-day blocks of days off. You can then trade them around among yourself if you want and if reserve coverage is good enough on a day you want.

sailingfun
10-31-2017, 11:28 AM
Are you talking about current Alaska reserve rules or former Virgin work rules? Because Alaska has 12 days off a month for reserves. RAP (Reserve Availability Period) is 14 hours, however the company can ask you to extend 1 hour. I don't remember why the days off on the schedule are listed 5 hours after the RAP period ends... I asked a scheduler once but I cannot remember.

Every month if you're on reserve they build the schedule with one 5-day, one 3-day, and two 2-day blocks of days off. You can then trade them around among yourself if you want and if reserve coverage is good enough on a day you want.

I am surprise the AK guys seem happy with the pay rates since they are still below market rates for the 737.

IDIOTPILOT
10-31-2017, 12:18 PM
Are you talking about current Alaska reserve rules or former Virgin work rules? Because Alaska has 12 days off a month for reserves. RAP (Reserve Availability Period) is 14 hours, however the company can ask you to extend 1 hour. I don't remember why the days off on the schedule are listed 5 hours after the RAP period ends... I asked a scheduler once but I cannot remember.

Every month if you're on reserve they build the schedule with one 5-day, one 3-day, and two 2-day blocks of days off. You can then trade them around among yourself if you want and if reserve coverage is good enough on a day you want.

If you read into what he wrote, he's referencing a comparison chart written by United ALPA. Someone took the block of days off in the 2013 wording and simply added them as if that's the min days off.

ForeverJunior
10-31-2017, 12:21 PM
I am surprise the AK guys seem happy with the pay rates since they are still below market rates for the 737.

No one I know is happy with this outcome, except for the extreme Kool-Aid gang types.

shfo
10-31-2017, 12:24 PM
Are you talking about current Alaska reserve rules or former Virgin work rules? Because Alaska has 12 days off a month for reserves. RAP (Reserve Availability Period) is 14 hours, however the company can ask you to extend 1 hour. I don't remember why the days off on the schedule are listed 5 hours after the RAP period ends... I asked a scheduler once but I cannot remember.

Every month if you're on reserve they build the schedule with one 5-day, one 3-day, and two 2-day blocks of days off. You can then trade them around among yourself if you want and if reserve coverage is good enough on a day you want.

Alaska Current Book. Define day. You do NOT get 12 calendar days off on reserve unless you have an early morning zone. You get 1 120 hour, 1 72 hour and 2 48 hour blocks of time off. Your days off start 5 hours after the end of your zone so you can be assigned a multi day trip that ends up to 5 hours after your zone ends.

So on that 1645 zone you are good for "2 days" today and tomorrow (wednesday) You get a trip that starts tonight with one leg to oak or slc where you sit for 30 hours and do a flight thursday morning that gets back at 11am. Do you consider Thursday a day off? I don't. But as I understand it that is legal per the contract. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong I really hope I am.

busbusbaby
10-31-2017, 07:05 PM
Alaska Current Book. Define day. You do NOT get 12 calendar days off on reserve unless you have an early morning zone. You get 1 120 hour, 1 72 hour and 2 48 hour blocks of time off. Your days off start 5 hours after the end of your zone so you can be assigned a multi day trip that ends up to 5 hours after your zone ends.

So on that 1645 zone you are good for "2 days" today and tomorrow (wednesday) You get a trip that starts tonight with one leg to oak or slc where you sit for 30 hours and do a flight thursday morning that gets back at 11am. Do you consider Thursday a day off? I don't. But as I understand it that is legal per the contract. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong I really hope I am.

It does say that in the contact about hours free of duty in base as a minimum. The bid packages shows on all reserve lines 1 block of 5, 1 block of 3 and 2 blocks of 2 calander days off.

Outdoors
10-31-2017, 07:33 PM
Are you talking about current Alaska reserve rules or former Virgin work rules? Because Alaska has 12 days off a month for reserves. RAP (Reserve Availability Period) is 14 hours, however the company can ask you to extend 1 hour. I don't remember why the days off on the schedule are listed 5 hours after the RAP period ends... I asked a scheduler once but I cannot remember.

Every month if you're on reserve they build the schedule with one 5-day, one 3-day, and two 2-day blocks of days off. You can then trade them around among yourself if you want and if reserve coverage is good enough on a day you want.

Itís because on your last RAP they can extend you 5 hours past, Iíve experienced this numerous times. There is no limitation to how many times a month they can do this. Your 12 days off can be more like 10 days off and about 2 half days off. Couple that with trying to commute and not being able to list for a Jumpseat....

Donít be fooled, Trading rsv days is next to impossible here. There is about two days in the whole month that have adequate coverage to trade with yourself.

Outdoors
10-31-2017, 07:38 PM
Alaska Current Book. Define day. You do NOT get 12 calendar days off on reserve unless you have an early morning zone. You get 1 120 hour, 1 72 hour and 2 48 hour blocks of time off. Your days off start 5 hours after the end of your zone so you can be assigned a multi day trip that ends up to 5 hours after your zone ends.

So on that 1645 zone you are good for "2 days" today and tomorrow (wednesday) You get a trip that starts tonight with one leg to oak or slc where you sit for 30 hours and do a flight thursday morning that gets back at 11am. Do you consider Thursday a day off? I don't. But as I understand it that is legal per the contract. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong I really hope I am.

Unfortunately you are correct. Itís legal, they will assign it that way and put you on rest if needed to make it fit 117. Especially if itís your last ďdayĒ of reserve.

alphasierra01
11-04-2017, 06:59 PM
From the UAL contract comparison:

5:00 av duty period guarantee

1:2 duty rig

1:1.75 wocl duty rig

1:3.5 trip rig

no uniform expenses

no passport/visa expenses

meal/internet reimbursed on dh

short call 79 hr guar, 15 hour raps, 8 days off

Long call 75 hr guarantee 12 days off

parking only in domicile

no hotels for new hires, training in base, or lost RON in base

line holders 8 days off, lines built to 75-85 hrs allowed flex up to 88 a few times a year

I have verified the 8 days off with a friend who is a new hire. Has the 1745 RAP and his day "off" starts at 1245 PM. Guess they get 288 hours off a month on reserve. I thought they recently changed the hotel policy for new hires. Did they change it back to no hotels provided during training?

TurnNBurn
11-05-2017, 06:21 AM
Couple that with trying to commute and not being able to list for a Jumpseat....


Why are you not able to list for a JS?

Outdoors
11-05-2017, 03:52 PM
Why are you not able to list for a JS?

Good catch, I meant to say reserve Jumpseat.

ImperialxRat
11-13-2017, 01:11 PM
Alaska Current Book. Define day. You do NOT get 12 calendar days off on reserve unless you have an early morning zone. You get 1 120 hour, 1 72 hour and 2 48 hour blocks of time off. Your days off start 5 hours after the end of your zone so you can be assigned a multi day trip that ends up to 5 hours after your zone ends.

So on that 1645 zone you are good for "2 days" today and tomorrow (wednesday) You get a trip that starts tonight with one leg to oak or slc where you sit for 30 hours and do a flight thursday morning that gets back at 11am. Do you consider Thursday a day off? I don't. But as I understand it that is legal per the contract. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong I really hope I am.

You're right, I stand corrected. It is not days off, it is the block of time off. And unfortunately your example is also correct.