Airline Pilot Forums

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Sike
11-16-2017, 06:15 PM
So... pay excluded, which airline job has the best package? I'm talking about health insurance, retirement contributions, vacation time, sick time, trip rigs, duty rigs, hotels, etc. I know it's not an easy question to answer, but is there any kind of consensus out there? Let's include the cargo carriers in this too.


rickair7777
11-16-2017, 06:45 PM
Hard to say conclusively, there are so many variables (what's valuable to you might not mean much to me). But nobody would probably argue too hard if I said the answer is DAL and FDX.

Xtreme87
11-16-2017, 06:49 PM
Mesa.

.......


Qotsaautopilot
11-16-2017, 08:08 PM
The C-suite.

Sike
11-16-2017, 08:09 PM
Hard to say conclusively, there are so many variables (what's valuable to you might not mean much to me). But nobody would probably argue too hard if I said the answer is DAL and FDX.

That's along the lines of what I've been thinking, but it would be good to hear some opinions.

Crazy Canuck
11-16-2017, 08:16 PM
Just a thought...

I’d be curious to put Spirit work rules with Delta pay and see how it works out. Anyone?

John Carr
11-16-2017, 09:24 PM
The one that will hire you FIRST have you home the MOST and pay you ENOUGH, that’s which one.

The rest is just mental masturbation.

rightside02
11-17-2017, 07:03 AM
It's actually tough to compare IMO, reason being from an outside standpoint one doesn't truly know the tricks of the other airlines contract , know having been at Jetblue and currently at United I can only speak for those two airlines , I have no clue the DETAILS of another airline , sure we all know the highlights from pals who work at the other airline but not how to really work the contract to get the most of it , on top of that it comes with seniority .

But I prob agree a quick answer would be Delta / Fedex / United . Each has good points and weak points

Sike
11-17-2017, 10:15 PM
That's the exact reason why I am asking. You can look at all of the pay rates on this website, but there is very little information about the rest, which in reality, could be more important when most of the pay rates are pretty close.

Sliceback
11-18-2017, 04:41 AM
Twenty to thirty year forecast? Compare the last 20-30 years and use that as a predictor of the future with an overweighting of the current contract?

Having great work rules and benefits, with really poor pay, is a lousy combination.

And getting hired at the start of the hiring cycle vs several thousands guys into the hiring cycle can complete negate the value of a ‘better’ contract if you’re several thousand numbers more junior.

full of luv
11-18-2017, 05:34 AM
So... pay excluded, which airline job has the best package? I'm talking about health insurance, retirement contributions, vacation time, sick time, trip rigs, duty rigs, hotels, etc. I know it's not an easy question to answer, but is there any kind of consensus out there? Let's include the cargo carriers in this too.

That's really an impossible answer.

For example, Delta has company provided life insurance in the $850K range, yet some pilots decline it because they don't want to pay the tax on the imputed income that the IRS charges for that benefit.

Some pilots take and pay for gucci medical that covers everything for a whole family, some simply take minimal insurance and put their/company contribution of money into their FSA/HSA's.

Some pilots abhor the fact that you can't fly on your vacation time at Delta, some pilots enjoy their 5 weeks of vacation.

Some senior pilots find reserve so delightful that they bid it on purpose for an 82 hr guarantee during the summer and yet some pilots complain that having to stand short call from 0-6 times in a month as overwhelmingly abuse of reserve pilots.

There is little doubt that a line bid system can fully exploit the advantages of seniority (depending on the construction of the lines) with full transparency as when compared to PBS bidding systems which distort the seniority system a bit to make the most efficient solution for the company and building schedules that avoid conflicts with vacation and training.

So at every company you will find a benefit/problem that pilots will claim is superior/inferior to the way everyone else does it. It's all about perspective.

John Carr
11-18-2017, 09:06 AM
That's really an impossible answer.

For example, Delta has company provided life insurance in the $850K range, yet some pilots decline it because they don't want to pay the tax on the imputed income that the IRS charges for that benefit.

Some pilots take and pay for gucci medical that covers everything for a whole family, some simply take minimal insurance and put their/company contribution of money into their FSA/HSA's.

Some pilots abhor the fact that you can't fly on your vacation time at Delta, some pilots enjoy their 5 weeks of vacation.

Some senior pilots find reserve so delightful that they bid it on purpose for an 82 hr guarantee during the summer and yet some pilots complain that having to stand short call from 0-6 times in a month as overwhelmingly abuse of reserve pilots.

There is little doubt that a line bid system can fully exploit the advantages of seniority (depending on the construction of the lines) with full transparency as when compared to PBS bidding systems which distort the seniority system a bit to make the most efficient solution for the company and building schedules that avoid conflicts with vacation and training.

So at every company you will find a benefit/problem that pilots will claim is superior/inferior to the way everyone else does it. It's all about perspective.

Hence......

The one that will hire you FIRST have you home the MOST and pay you ENOUGH, that’s which one.

The rest is just mental masturbation.

As well as internet circle jerking.

flensr
11-18-2017, 11:15 AM
Just a thought...

I’d be curious to put Spirit work rules with Delta pay and see how it works out. Anyone?

4-day trips for 14 hours, that's how that would work out, per actual Nov schedule.

full of luv
11-18-2017, 11:50 AM
4-day trips for 14 hours, that's how that would work out, per actual Nov schedule.

OUCH!

Filler OUCH!

80ktsClamp
11-18-2017, 12:01 PM
4-day trips for 14 hours, that's how that would work out, per actual Nov schedule.

Geez.

Ours (DL) pay a min of 21 hours, even if concluding with a redeye. Average daily guarantee is a good thing...

DL has near top of the industry with most things, but we lag seriously with training pay and medical insurance.

Hossharris
11-18-2017, 12:49 PM
If you want a slightly more apples to apples comparison .... google “aero crew news”. Download the current issue in pdf, and scroll down to the “matrix” at the end.

It’s an adequate way to compare work rules .... and at the very least will get you asking the right questions.

okawner
11-18-2017, 04:22 PM
Also the United contract comparison...good info.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

beancounter
11-18-2017, 07:10 PM
Geez.

Ours (DL) pay a min of 21 hours, even if concluding with a redeye. Average daily guarantee is a good thing...

DL has near top of the industry with most things, but we lag seriously with training pay and medical insurance.

Yeah, no kidding. The last 4 day I did paid 25+ hours for a narrow body a/c. AA is improving, but I'd say Delta and Fed Ex are by far the best.

Rsv4lyfe
11-18-2017, 09:27 PM
Was UAL, now FDX. Have lots of friends at DAL.

UAL. FDX/DAL close behind.

at6d
11-19-2017, 08:57 AM
The four day I’m on right now pays 36 trips!

Oh wait, that’s because we block 30.

I need some Aleve.

mainlineAF
11-19-2017, 09:40 AM
The four day I’m on right now pays 36 trips!



Oh wait, that’s because we block 30.



I need some Aleve.



How much credit is that in non SWA speak?

Skyward
11-19-2017, 04:25 PM
The four day I’m on right now pays 36 trips!

Oh wait, that’s because we block 30.

I need some Aleve.

But how many days off... 18+ ?

Health insurance premiums at $0 is nice too ;)

Sike
11-19-2017, 07:28 PM
If you want a slightly more apples to apples comparison .... google “aero crew news”. Download the current issue in pdf, and scroll down to the “matrix” at the end.

It’s an adequate way to compare work rules .... and at the very least will get you asking the right questions.

Excellent resource. Thanks!

NikeBuddy
11-19-2017, 07:30 PM
Can't complain at SWA, have 15-16 days off a month, average 118-127 trips (hours) a month, $0 health insurance, Contract calls for 16% B-fund by 2020 I believe.

Lubbock to Indianapolis here I come. :)

at6d
11-20-2017, 07:18 AM
How much credit is that in non SWA speak?

Our pay scale is based on “Trips For Pay.”

Second year right now makes $100.26 per Trip.

The trip I just finished credited 36 Trips at that rate.

Month so far is at 106 Trips, no OT. Two three-day trips, two four-day trips.

All PM trips. Three weekends off.

17 days off, with last six days of November off in a row.

detpilot
11-20-2017, 09:18 PM
Our pay scale is based on “Trips For Pay.”

Second year right now makes $100.26 per Trip.

The trip I just finished credited 36 Trips at that rate.

Month so far is at 106 Trips, no OT. Two three-day trips, two four-day trips.

All PM trips. Three weekends off.

17 days off, with last six days of November off in a row.Is a trip one hour?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

at6d
11-21-2017, 09:03 AM
Is a trip one hour?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

So the TFP thing is a little weird. It’s based on an old formula of a standard trip distance (something like DAL-SAT, I can’t remember) and then adjusted.

It’s close to an hour, I think the conversion is 1.149. To keep my head from exploding, I plan for 1 TFP = 1 hour.

flyguy81
11-21-2017, 01:33 PM
SWA rigs converted to hourly:

Daily: 5 tfp or ~ 4.35 hrs
ADG: 6.5 tfp or ~ 5.65 hrs

So a 2 day is rigged at ~11.3 hrs
A 3 day is ~16.96 hrs
A 4 day is ~22.62 hrs

It's not hard to find trips that pay well above that. My line next month I fly 75 and get paid ~85 hrs (97tfp). I'll get it to around 110-115 and have 16 off for the month.

OldFlyGuy
11-23-2017, 07:28 AM
The one that will hire you FIRST have you home the MOST and pay you ENOUGH, that’s which one.

The rest is just mental masturbation.

This is a great answer and I'd include relative seniority as well. A little bit better seniority at company A could easily mean better lifestyle AND more $ than the value of an entire benefits package at company B. Oh, and don't commute. OFG

badflaps
11-24-2017, 07:53 AM
Ya, I actually thought I was going to get a pension . Silly boy.

Spicy McHaggis
12-04-2017, 01:11 AM
Also the United contract comparison...good info.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yes it is. Too large to attach here, though.

Sniper66
12-05-2017, 04:06 AM
Delta
Hands down



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