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View Full Version : Air Whisky Vs. PSA Info


jtroypaige
11-17-2017, 01:44 PM
Hello all,

I'm one of those lucky guys who is interviewing with a bunch of interviews this month and have received CJO's from almost all of them. I'm looking to start training in mid-December, but am having a hell of a time trying to decide between what I perceive to be my top two. I'm hoping that some of you kind gents can enlighten me about a few things before I jump off and make a decision.

So my top two, as evidenced by the title here, are Air Whiskey and PSA.

Air Whisky wasn't near the top of my list at first, but after going through the interview process and fully understanding the trip and duty time rigs, something completely foreign to us 91 guys, I really like those protections. So my questions to you guys are how is the quality of life and pay with those rigs? What are your real-life paychecks looking like in hours? The recruiting captain mentioned that some get paid as much as 140 hours and I wanted to know if that was a complete bill of goods? I understand you are also understaffed and are junior manning and the like quite a bit, but does that paint a pretty rosy upgrade time picture? They said 18-24 month time period to us during the interview. That look around accurate? Finally, are the health care and other benefits that great at Air Whisky?

The thing that I am weighing those duty rigs and benefits against at PSA is mainly the SAP scheduling. I understand that PSA doesn't have the rigs that Air Whisky does, but being able to do all the dropping and scheduling yourself really does sound like a huge QOL benefit. For any PSA pilots, is the SAP all that is cracked up to be? How many hours of pay are common on your lines? How does the SAP realistically effect your pay and QOL? Basically a bunch of the same questions that I asked Air Whisky pilots, as well.

Could some people help give me a run down and sway me one way or the other? I really don't want to get caught up in the recruiting euphoria and I would sure appreciate your help!


StrykerB21
11-17-2017, 03:25 PM
140 hours of credit is only realistic if you dont plan on spending any time at home. I average about 100 credit hours a month and typically have 12 or 13 days off. Open time is paid at 150% or 200% if scheduling marks it as critical. Based on how many we have in training I think the 18 to 24 month upgrade is accurate for people walking in the door today.

Trip rigs have padded my check quite a bit. Take your total time away from base, divide that by 4 and thats your minimum credit. 80 hours away from base will result in 20 hours of pay even if that 4 day trip blocks significantly less. Lately our schedules have a lot of 30 hour sits so the trip rig comes in handy.

Our healthcare is pretty good in my opinion. If you have a family its something you should look at more closely. Ive heard of guys having kids and paying less than 20 dollars out of pocket, the insurance covered everything.

Commuting is obviously a huge issue. Right now we only have IAD and ORD with the possibility of opening a third base.... Somewhere. If you can live in domicile your quality of life will significantly improve. If you live near one of PSAs bases they might be a better fit because commuting is awful.

42ER
11-17-2017, 03:30 PM
The junior man of FO was reduced quite a bit lately. I talked to a scheduler and he was surprised how much it improved compared to a couple months ago. We're short on CAs now, a good sign for movements I believe.


pitchtrim
11-17-2017, 04:31 PM
I'll 2nd what StrykerB21 said. Though I average about 90 a month and 14 off. There are months (some vacations) I pick up flying for the money.

WakeWash
11-17-2017, 05:46 PM
Thereís a lot to be said for working for a wholly owned as well. Obviously you donít wanna be at a regional for more than the 5 year United contract but youíve always gotta be ready. American can match regional competition with their wholly owns. AWAC doesnít have that kind of ability being independent. Also, Kirby HATES regional pilots, but lovveesssss to utilize the regionals. And heís very good at it. It wasnít until he left American that the wholly owns started getting money sent their way to become competitive and stay at the top. And guess who Kirby works for now? United. As an unbiased opinion Iíd go to PSA or any wholly owned 20 times over before Iíd even glance AWACs direction. Fantastic group of pilots, but just so much uncertainty in my view over there.

Not even gonna discuss what kind of effect SAP has on quality of life tho because you can read it everywhere, and yes it is true. Not an FO here but Iíd say PSA pay is a bit better, with the possibility of t being upped some more in the next year or so if/when the Endeavor TA passes.

Roverruckus
11-17-2017, 07:40 PM
If you want to work the system you can make some bank, just don't expect to be home that much. I credited over 150 hours in October but I had only 5 full days off. The time is there if you want it, but honestly, it looks like the FO side is starting to get staffed for the flying we currently do so the junior man bonanza should be coming to an end. If the base location doesn't matter too much for you then what I would recommend is Air Wisconsin for someone who is really career oriented, wants to get involved and fly a lot and PSA for someone that wants to collect min guarantee and work the schedule for maximum QOL and wait for their flow.

Grumbletrousers
11-18-2017, 06:53 AM
Thereís a lot to be said for working for a wholly owned as well. Obviously you donít wanna be at a regional for more than the 5 year United contract but youíve always gotta be ready. American can match regional competition with their wholly owns. AWAC doesnít have that kind of ability being independent. Also, Kirby HATES regional pilots, but lovveesssss to utilize the regionals. And heís very good at it. It wasnít until he left American that the wholly owns started getting money sent their way to become competitive and stay at the top. And guess who Kirby works for now? United. As an unbiased opinion Iíd go to PSA or any wholly owned 20 times over before Iíd even glance AWACs direction. Fantastic group of pilots, but just so much uncertainty in my view over there.

Not even gonna discuss what kind of effect SAP has on quality of life tho because you can read it everywhere, and yes it is true. Not an FO here but Iíd say PSA pay is a bit better, with the possibility of t being upped some more in the next year or so if/when the Endeavor TA passes.

Couple things here;

1) Even if the Endevour TA passes, you make roughly the same at Air Wisconsin over the first three years due to the bonuses. The idea Air Wisconsin canít match American is untrue seeing as how the owners made half a billion bailing out US Airways from bankruptcy. Air Wisconsin has money. Lots of it. They just need to share it better.

2) Kirby joining United was one of the reasons we got a contract with them. We consistently outperformed every American regional carrier on; fuel, on-time, and completion. What Parker didnít like was our price. Which was negotiated with US Airways as part of the bankruptcy loan.

3) Your opinion will never be unbiased because you work for PSA.

4) If the Endevour passes their TA every regional will get raises within 2-3 years.

chrisreedrules
11-18-2017, 07:29 AM
Couple things here;

1) Even if the Endevour TA passes, you make roughly the same at Air Wisconsin over the first three years due to the bonuses. The idea Air Wisconsin canít match American is untrue seeing as how the owners made half a billion bailing out US Airways from bankruptcy. Air Wisconsin has money. Lots of it. They just need to share it better.

2) Kirby joining United was one of the reasons we got a contract with them. We consistently outperformed every American regional carrier on; fuel, on-time, and completion. What Parker didnít like was our price. Which was negotiated with US Airways as part of the bankruptcy loan.

3) Your opinion will never be unbiased because you work for PSA.

4) If the Endevour passes their TA every regional will get raises within 2-3 years.

They better be quicker than 2-3 years if they want to stay in business and keep attracting pilots!

WakeWash
11-18-2017, 07:20 PM
Couple things here;

1) Even if the Endevour TA passes, you make roughly the same at Air Wisconsin over the first three years due to the bonuses. The idea Air Wisconsin canít match American is untrue seeing as how the owners made half a billion bailing out US Airways from bankruptcy. Air Wisconsin has money. Lots of it. They just need to share it better.

2) Kirby joining United was one of the reasons we got a contract with them. We consistently outperformed every American regional carrier on; fuel, on-time, and completion. What Parker didnít like was our price. Which was negotiated with US Airways as part of the bankruptcy loan.

3) Your opinion will never be unbiased because you work for PSA.

4) If the Endevour passes their TA every regional will get raises within 2-3 years.

1. If youíre only looking at the first 3 years and not the possibility of getting stuck somewhere then you need to approach it again.

2. You just made my point. Kirby loves to utilize regionals as I mentioned, which is why AWAC got that contract. He hates giving regional pilots anything though.

3. Iíd say go to many places over AWAC. I suggested any AA wholly owned and would even suggest Endeavor over AWAC.

4. This isnít possibly for so many airlines. Where are these independent carriers going to get the money from? They are receiving money from only the flying they bid on. Thereís no one behind them with deep pockets like AA or Delta. You can only raise pay so much before you have to start asking for more on the flying youíre doing, and risk not winning any flying at all because a Mesa or someone comes in and underbids you for it. You may see a couple dollars added to pay rates, but I donít see very many being able to match Endeavor type rates and beyond.

StrykerB21
11-19-2017, 01:30 AM
1. If youíre only looking at the first 3 years and not the possibility of getting stuck somewhere then you need to approach it again.

2. You just made my point. Kirby loves to utilize regionals as I mentioned, which is why AWAC got that contract. He hates giving regional pilots anything though.

3. Iíd say go to many places over AWAC. I suggested any AA wholly owned and would even suggest Endeavor over AWAC.

4. This isnít possibly for so many airlines. Where are these independent carriers going to get the money from? They are receiving money from only the flying they bid on. Thereís no one behind them with deep pockets like AA or Delta. You can only raise pay so much before you have to start asking for more on the flying youíre doing, and risk not winning any flying at all because a Mesa or someone comes in and underbids you for it. You may see a couple dollars added to pay rates, but I donít see very many being able to match Endeavor type rates and beyond.

Your opinion is noted.



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