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Rcordeiro122592
11-20-2017, 05:49 AM
Has anyone been through any of the Gateway programs? If so, how is the success rate of going from a piston twin directly into the JetBlue world?


rvr1800
11-20-2017, 06:59 AM
I believe itís a 100% success rate.

PontiusPilot
11-20-2017, 07:16 AM
Has anyone been through any of the Gateway programs? If so, how is the success rate of going from a piston twin directly into the JetBlue world?

Success rate is at or near 100%. I don't know where you are in your flying career, but for the gateway nowadays, I would actually recommend ExpressJet. Turbine experience, better flight benefits, commutable, and you can also opt in for a pathway to United. The ExpressJet to JetBlue path takes a little longer than the Cape Air path, but it gives you more options.


IH8ROADS
11-20-2017, 07:27 AM
Success rate is at or near 100%. I don't know where you are in your flying career, but for the gateway nowadays, I would actually recommend ExpressJet. Turbine experience, better flight benefits, commutable, and you can also opt in for a pathway to United. The ExpressJet to JetBlue path takes a little longer than the Cape Air path, but it gives you more options.

The ExpressJet to JetBlue program is only for pilots who graduated with an Advanced Aviation degree from an approved school. And with saying that, believe the program is on pause for new guys applying with the Delta contract going away.

PontiusPilot
11-20-2017, 07:34 AM
The ExpressJet to JetBlue program is only for pilots who graduated with an Advanced Aviation degree from an approved school. And with saying that, believe the program is on pause for new guys applying with the Delta contract going away.

True about the eligible universities... however, the wind-down of the Delta flying doesn't affect the JetBlue pathway.

Southerner
11-20-2017, 11:00 AM
Success rate is at or near 100%. I don't know where you are in your flying career, but for the gateway nowadays, I would actually recommend ExpressJet. Turbine experience, better flight benefits, commutable, and you can also opt in for a pathway to United. The ExpressJet to JetBlue path takes a little longer than the Cape Air path, but it gives you more options.



Given the current state of XJT, this may no longer be true.

Southerner
11-20-2017, 11:02 AM
True about the eligible universities... however, the wind-down of the Delta flying doesn't affect the JetBlue pathway.



To my knowledge, no new Advanced Gateway candidates are being considered at XJT for the time being.

PontiusPilot
11-20-2017, 11:33 AM
To my knowledge, no new Advanced Gateway candidates are being considered at XJT for the time being.

I'm not aware of that. To clarify, I was speaking in reference to the University Gateway program, which may/may not apply to the OP.

As far as XJT, it's a transitional time and a tough situation for those on the ASA side - many of them are understandably leaving. The overall outlook for XJT, however, is better than it was a year ago.

hyperboy
11-20-2017, 12:35 PM
Success rate is at or near 100%. I don't know where you are in your flying career, but for the gateway nowadays, I would actually recommend ExpressJet. Turbine experience, better flight benefits, commutable, and you can also opt in for a pathway to United. The ExpressJet to JetBlue path takes a little longer than the Cape Air path, but it gives you more options.

I thought that ExpressJet was losing flying left and right as well as aircraft? I heard its like the Titanic only on fire as well?

antbar01
11-20-2017, 01:05 PM
I'm not aware of that. To clarify, I was speaking in reference to the University Gateway program, which may/may not apply to the OP.

As far as XJT, it's a transitional time and a tough situation for those on the ASA side - many of them are understandably leaving. The overall outlook for XJT, however, is better than it was a year ago.

I mean no offense, but I think I smell a recruiter. Do NOT go to XJT. I had many, many, many happy years there (mostly in the right seat) and honestly enjoyed it despite its being mismanaged into the ground after the SkyWest buyout. But there is no contract on the horizon, no new flying, no guaranteed pathway to anywhere, and industry-trailing compensation there. Itís a shadow of its former self.

John Carr
11-20-2017, 01:13 PM
I don't know where you are in your flying career, but for the gateway nowadays, I would actually recommend ExpressJet. Turbine experience, better flight benefits, commutable, and you can also opt in for a pathway to United. The ExpressJet to JetBlue path takes a little longer than the Cape Air path, but it gives you more options.

I wouldn't say the XJT CPP is a "good" reason to go to XJT. Your other reasons are, but one can get those at (insert almost any regional here). The XJT CPP has proven to be a mediocre (at best) program with so-so results.

The pilots in the Dec 5 class from the XJT CPP have hire dates at XJT in the late 2000 range. The Commutair CPPs in the Dec new hire class at UAL are a 2012 hire. Think about that for a sec.

A 2005 hire in the XJT CPP pool will take till next summer AT THE SOONEST to get to UAL. A late 2005 hire needs ~ 375 new spots at UAL before they go. NOT ALL XJT pilots have interviewed for the CPP, which means they can come in on top of pilots junior that have. A 2011 hire will take about 6-700 more new hires at UAL before seeing a class date. Pilots that were unsuccessful last summer are getting their second chance. Per the EXISTING agreement, they also come in on top of those below them for class.

Now, the "wildcard" to that last sentence is if/when/how the L-ASA CRJ pilots get mixed into the XJT CPP program.

What I'm getting at is, someone hired TODAY at XJT would take years to get to UAL, assuming the program even continues to exist.

Commutair or AWAC may have a much faster "path" to UAL going strictly on the CPP program.

I thought that ExpressJet was losing flying left and right as well as aircraft? I heard its like the Titanic only on fire as well?

The CRJ side received the news that DAL will be done with them.

The ERJ side WAS losing flying to the tune of ~5 planes per month with NO PLAN for XJT ERJ's to exist after 2018.

A few months ago, UAL signed a new 5 year CPA with XJT for the ERJ's to STOP ERJ transfer to C5, TSA, or whomever and possibly grow the ERJ fleet at XJT.

PontiusPilot
11-20-2017, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't say the XJT CPP is a "good" reason to go to XJT. Your other reasons are, but one can get those at (insert almost any regional here). The XJT CPP has proven to be a mediocre (at best) program with so-so results.

The pilots in the Dec 5 class from the XJT CPP have hire dates at XJT in the late 2000 range. The Commutair CPPs in the Dec new hire class at UAL are a 2012 hire. Think about that for a sec.

A 2005 hire in the XJT CPP pool will take till next summer AT THE SOONEST to get to UAL. A late 2005 hire needs ~ 375 new spots at UAL before they go. NOT ALL XJT pilots have interviewed for the CPP, which means they can come in on top of pilots junior that have. A 2011 hire will take about 6-700 more new hires at UAL before seeing a class date. Pilots that were unsuccessful last summer are getting their second chance. Per the EXISTING agreement, they also come in on top of those below them for class.

Now, the "wildcard" to that last sentence is if/when/how the L-ASA CRJ pilots get mixed into the XJT CPP program.

What I'm getting at is, someone hired TODAY at XJT would take years to get to UAL, assuming the program even continues to exist.

Commutair or AWAC may have a much faster "path" to UAL going strictly on the CPP program.



The CRJ side received the news that DAL will be done with them.

The ERJ side WAS losing flying to the tune of ~5 planes per month with NO PLAN for XJT ERJ's to exist after 2018.

A few months ago, UAL signed a new 5 year CPA with XJT for the ERJ's to STOP ERJ transfer to C5, TSA, or whomever and possibly grow the ERJ fleet at XJT.



Nope... definitely not a recruiter. I regret coming off that way, though. I'll be the first to admit it's not rainbows and unicorns at XJT. The seniority list is top-heavy and upgrades, though trending in the right direction, are still incredibly long by today's standards. Compensation needs to catch up. The new hire bonus is weak. Ownership by Inc. is a huge hindrance to gaining new flying.


Just due to the reality of the industry today, however, a new hire will likely have a very different career trajectory than one hired 10-12 years ago. Therefore, I'm admittedly a bit more optimistic about the CPP.

Barring a cataclysmic event, United hiring should continue at a steady pace well into the future. (Remains to be seen.) Even if we factor relatively reasonable hiring estimates at United of 600 per year, that's still 150 per year from the XJT CPP. There's less than 300 in the pool today.

There are other factors to consider.
-There have been more than 100 opt outs.
-Hogan pass rate... I estimate it at 80%. That's mostly a guess based on anecdotal information and unofficial surveys. Interested to hear what your estimate is.
-Of those, I'm not sure what the interview pass rate likely is. Maybe 65%? Mostly a wild guess. I'd expect it to be lower than UA off the street interviews. Also interested to hear what you think.
-Employment leave has been extended to 180 days. Many people on the seniority list are already gone, and can't be factored into CPP progression.
-The program all but requires a 4 year degree, which disqualifies quite a few people.
-People are dropping like flies from the ASA side. I can't say I blame them. I'd be surprised if more than 300-400 actually stick around and transition to the ERJ side, which lessens their potential effect on the CPP pool.

The people leaving through the CPP now have been at XJT a hell of a long time, no doubt. But the factors I mentioned above, as well as a relatively thin hiring in recent years means that it'll be a couple of years before the "25%" language of the CPP starts showing its real strength.

I agree that the CPP just isn't going to be as big of a draw as a straight flow, but I don't see United ever doing that. It's a feast or famine kind of pathway. It's worthless for some, but for those who are successful, it can potentially move a lot faster than expected.

All that said, I just can't give the blanket statement that people shouldn't come to XJT. Yes, there are great options out there. However, if one lives in base and has a strong interest in the JetBlue gateway and/or UA, they could do a lot worse.

You never know. It was only a few years ago when Pinnacle and American Eagle were stagnant. If/when change happens, it can happen quickly. I hope it does.

John Carr
11-20-2017, 04:03 PM
Nope... definitely not a recruiter. I regret coming off that way, though.

NEVER assumed such, just simply disagreed with your advice on going on going to XJT on the point of the CPP.

Just due to the reality of the industry today, however, a new hire will likely have a very different career trajectory than one hired 10-12 years ago. Therefore, I'm admittedly a bit more optimistic about the CPP.

True, but when myself and many others and maybe you got our first jobs before 9/11, we had a much different career expectation/"trajectory" than what the dark decade gave us. You NEVER KNOW.....

There are other factors to consider.
-There have been more than 100 opt outs.
-Hogan pass rate... I estimate it at 80%. That's mostly a guess based on anecdotal information and unofficial surveys. Interested to hear what your estimate is.

I believe that NOW it's up to that rate. The first year-ish (maybe a little longer) had about a 50% pass rate.

-Of those, I'm not sure what the interview pass rate likely is. Maybe 65%? Mostly a wild guess. I'd expect it to be lower than UA off the street interviews. Also interested to hear what you think.

It's not what I think, it's what I know.

End of summer it was UP TO about 50% pass at the interview. Up from about 20% summer prior.

-Employment leave has been extended to 180 days. Many people on the seniority list are already gone, and can't be factored into CPP progression.

True. I know a few last fall that beat the CPP by getting an off the street. Also know those that were accepted and waiting and took employment elsewhere.

-The program all but requires a 4 year degree, which disqualifies quite a few people.

Well, sort of. I know 3 that got in without it, and a few more going without it. It's at UAL's discretion. As well as many times has no rhyme or reason why some don't have to get it and some are being told to get it to be considered.

-People are dropping like flies from the ASA side. I can't say I blame them. I'd be surprised if more than 300-400 actually stick around and transition to the ERJ side, which lessens their potential effect on the CPP pool.

Remains to be seen.

I agree that the CPP just isn't going to be as big of a draw as a straight flow, but I don't see United ever doing that. It's a feast or famine kind of pathway. It's worthless for some, but for those who are successful, it can potentially move a lot faster than expected. I just can't give the blanket statement that people shouldn't come to XJT. Yes, there are great options out there. However, if one lives in base and has a strong interest in the JetBlue gateway and/or UA, they could do a lot worse.

Agreed. I NEVER SAID people SHOULDN'T go to XJT, I just said that the CPP shouldn't really be a factor based on what I know as well the FACT that UAL is very nondescript/subjective as they've been to date.

It's "better" now, but about the first year UAL really mismanaged it and turned down A LOT of good people that SHOULD have got in. Combined with what can be a lengthy wait, etc etc etc.

People could go to other carrier that offer a quicker upgrade and more opportunities to check boxes off on apps. Quicker upgrade, quicker chance to become and LCA, move into a volunteer/safety position, what have you.

PontiusPilot
11-20-2017, 04:25 PM
NEVER assumed such, just simply disagreed with your advice on going on going to XJT on the point of the CPP.



True, but when myself and many others and maybe you got our first jobs before 9/11, we had a much different career expectation/"trajectory" than what the dark decade gave us. You NEVER KNOW.....



I believe that NOW it's up to that rate. The first year-ish (maybe a little longer) had about a 50% pass rate.



It's not what I think, it's what I know.

End of summer it was UP TO about 50% pass at the interview. Up from about 20% summer prior.



True. I know a few last fall that beat the CPP by getting an off the street. Also know those that were accepted and waiting and took employment elsewhere.



Well, sort of. I know 3 that got in without it, and a few more going without it. It's at UAL's discretion. As well as many times has no rhyme or reason why some don't have to get it and some are being told to get it to be considered.



Remains to be seen.



Agreed. I NEVER SAID people SHOULDN'T go to XJT, I just said that the CPP shouldn't really be a factor based on what I know as well the FACT that UAL is very nondescript/subjective as they've been to date.

It's "better" now, but about the first year UAL really mismanaged it and turned down A LOT of good people that SHOULD have got in. Combined with what can be a lengthy wait, etc etc etc.

I mistakenly replied to you about the recruiter accusation, as well as the point about not coming to ExpressJet. Turns out that was meant for a post before yours. My apologies.

I agree on most of your points. I also know of a few people in the CPP who ended up leaving for SWA, JetBlue, and others. The decimated early interviewees and tiny hiring numbers at UA in 2017 definitely took the wind out of the sails of the XJT CPP before things ever really got going. I'm optimistic that things are about to change.

I don't necessarily think that the CPP alone is a great reason to come to XJT. It's something that can work out for some, and won't for others. My original point is that it's a consideration if someone is actually making the Cape Air vs XJT decision.

SmitteyB
11-20-2017, 04:39 PM
I thought that ExpressJet was losing flying left and right as well as aircraft? I heard its like the Titanic only on fire as well?

**NOMINATION**
2017 POST OF THE YEAR

I donít know a sane person who would go to XJT at this point.

Go to any other regional and apply at JB a when you meet the mins.

BeatNavy
11-20-2017, 06:58 PM
**NOMINATION**
2017 POST OF THE YEAR

I donít know a sane person who would go to XJT at this point.

Go to any other regional and apply at JB a when you meet the mins.

Just to clarify, JetBlue has the same mins as regionals, unless you are referring to competitive mins.

atrdriver
11-21-2017, 04:38 AM
Just to clarify, JetBlue has the same mins as regionals

And that isn't where some similarities end. ;)

PasserOGas
11-21-2017, 09:16 AM
The Commutair CPPs in the Dec new hire class at UAL are a 2012 hire. Think about that for a sec.

Wow. This industry is disgusting.

I think of all my military friends, some at regionals with years of training and experience (also maturity) that aren't getting called, while some kid who lives in his moms basement gets a job because he worked for the right bottom feeding regional for 5 years.

John Carr
11-21-2017, 10:47 AM
Wow. This industry is disgusting.

I think of all my military friends, some at regionals with years of training and experience (also maturity) that aren't getting called, while some kid who lives in his moms basement gets a job because he worked for the right bottom feeding regional for 5 years.

True, a sad sad reality that's panned out.

Lots of people getting hired at (insert good/great job here) with next to nothing for life and career experience.

BEFORE somebody losses their fecal matter, I'm NOT referencing the individual(s) mentioned from C5. Who knows? They could be a once/twice whatever furloughed recycled pilot or a mil guy that got hired there and was just waiting it out, etc.

But EVERY TIME I see a pilot that doesn't look a day over 25 walking around in a (insert good/great job) uniform while there's tons of military/civ guys that sucked up the dark decade, that's what I think.

It's all nothing but a "sign of the times" as they say.....

hyperboy
11-21-2017, 06:14 PM
True, a sad sad reality that's panned out.

Lots of people getting hired at (insert good/great job here) with next to nothing for life and career experience.

BEFORE somebody losses their fecal matter, I'm NOT referencing the individual(s) mentioned from C5. Who knows? They could be a once/twice whatever furloughed recycled pilot or a mil guy that got hired there and was just waiting it out, etc.

But EVERY TIME I see a pilot that doesn't look a day over 25 walking around in a (insert good/great job) uniform while there's tons of military/civ guys that sucked up the dark decade, that's what I think.



It's all nothing but a "sign of the times" as they say.....

At 25 I was already a Veteran. How do Veterans look?:D

John Carr
11-21-2017, 09:28 PM
At 25 I was already a Veteran. How do Veterans look?:D

Anyway they want.

Itís not mil vs. civ peeing contest, why go there?

CaptCoolHand
11-22-2017, 02:57 AM
At 25 I was already a Veteran. How do Veterans look?:D

You missed the point entirely.

Otterbox
11-22-2017, 06:18 AM
Wow. This industry is disgusting.

I think of all my military friends, some at regionals with years of training and experience (also maturity) that aren't getting called, while some kid who lives in his moms basement gets a job because he worked for the right bottom feeding regional for 5 years.

Unfortunately not all applicants are created equal and timing is the biggest factor in getting hired, followed by luck.

Do not forget that the whole point to CPP/DGI/SSP/FLOW is to keep the regionals staffed with cheap labor, thus making domestic feed profitable.

When you look at the #s, CPP has a disheartening pass rate between the Hogan and passing the interview. Something like less than 25% of folks who get selected for the process picked up first round (overall success rates donít seem to be tracked between the different companies but it seems to be the lowest out of any preferential program thanks to the Hogan).

Endeavors program has a roughly 35% initial pass rate to get to Delta (roughly 2/3rds overall by the time second interview is completed years later).

Two of AAs three Wholly Owned regionals have flows greater than 10 years (with Piedmont being the exception around 5 years because theyíre expanding).

All are designed to keep folks flying RJs, cheaply, for a long time. Donít buy into that these preferential programs are some quick miracle drug that gets folks to the majors quickly and easily. Looking at the numbers, the vast majority arenít.

atrdriver
11-22-2017, 06:35 AM
You missed the point entirely.

Is that any surprise? :D:D

hyperboy
11-22-2017, 06:37 AM
Anyway they want.

Itís not mil vs. civ peeing contest, why go there?

But EVERY TIME I see a pilot that doesn't look a day over 25 walking around in a (insert good/great job) uniform while there's tons of military/civ guys that sucked up the dark decade, that's what I think

I did not go there you did? Read what you wrote above? How do you know what they look like? All I am saying?

CaptCoolHand
11-22-2017, 08:18 AM
You....

Missed

The

Point

Entirely.

But EVERY TIME I see a pilot that doesn't look a day over 25 walking around in a (insert good/great job) uniform while there's tons of military/civ guys that sucked up the dark decade, that's what I think

I did not go there you did? Read what you wrote above? How do you know what they look like? All I am saying?

John Carr
11-22-2017, 09:00 AM
When you look at the #s, CPP has a disheartening pass rate between the Hogan and passing the interview. Something like less than 25% of folks who get selected for the process picked up first round (overall success rates donít seem to be tracked between the different companies but it seems to be the lowest out of any preferential program thanks to the Hogan).

Endeavors program has a roughly 35% initial pass rate to get to Delta (roughly 2/3rds overall by the time second interview is completed years later).

XJT acceptance rate has gone up. Itís sitting at roughly 50% that make it through the interview. Initially, it was only about 20%.

HPI pass rate has gone up as well.

I thought I heard that once the SSP got through the guys that didnít take it seriously, felt they were entitled, had sloppy log books/apps, etc that it went up to DALís normal off the street pass rate, 70-80%?

And hey, watch/flip-flops boy made it through so apparantly itís not too tough ;)

But some of the XJT CPP passes had very questionable things on their background as well.

PasserOGas
11-22-2017, 11:19 AM
Anyway they want.

Itís not mil vs. civ peeing contest, why go there?

Re reading my post I could see it that way. This goes for all the twice furloughed guys with families at XJT or wherever. The big 3 hiring 25 year old single guys with next to zero experience is a slap in the face.

And BTW less safe. Experience matters.

John Carr
11-22-2017, 11:29 AM
Re reading my post I could see it that way.

And BTW less safe. Experience matters.

Fair enough.

But I didn't see your post that way.

Simply keying off the point you mentioned, we ALL KNOW very experienced/qualified/mature guys and girls from ALL BACKGROUNDS grunting it out and for whatever reason aren't getting noticed.

Meanwhile, those without it are.

If Hyper wants to take something the wrong way/make a mountain out of a molehill, whatever.......

BuckeyeFO
11-22-2017, 03:41 PM
wait until JetBlue HR gets a PRIA request from Endeavor for one of your pilots. Your management better get a TA on the table soon before JB falls behind regionals in attracting people.

JB pays more than a regional...but at most regionals: upgrades are way sooner, flow to majors, better travel benefits (without having to clean planes), more/better base options, less sitting reserve.

For a lot of guys, it really is a toss up.

BeatNavy
11-22-2017, 03:47 PM
wait until JetBlue HR gets a PRIA request from Endeavor for one of your pilots. Your management better get a TA on the table soon before JB falls behind regionals in attracting people.

JB pays more than a regional...but at most regionals: upgrades are way sooner, flow to majors, better travel benefits (without having to clean planes), more/better base options, less sitting reserve.

For a lot of guys, it really is a toss up.

First year pay at Endeavor (and most regionals) is higher than JetBlueís.

HighFlight
11-22-2017, 10:04 PM
Significantly so, in some cases.

You folks need a contract, NOW!!

First year pay at Endeavor (and most regionals) is higher than JetBlueís.

Southerner
11-23-2017, 05:51 AM
wait until JetBlue HR gets a PRIA request from Endeavor for one of your pilots. Your management better get a TA on the table soon before JB falls behind regionals in attracting people.



JB pays more than a regional...but at most regionals: upgrades are way sooner, flow to majors, better travel benefits (without having to clean planes), more/better base options, less sitting reserve.



For a lot of guys, it really is a toss up.



If itís a toss-up for someone, then they havenít done their research. I donít care what regional it is, JetBlue is a step up from any of them.

And if someone leaves JB to go to any regional, they seriously lack perspective.

PasserOGas
11-23-2017, 06:47 AM
If itís a toss-up for someone, then they havenít done their research. I donít care what regional it is, JetBlue is a step up from any of them.

And if someone leaves JB to go to any regional, they seriously lack perspective.

Southerner, the perspective lacking is yours. First year pay at Republic is $64k. Ours is $53k. Upgrade there is 6 months. In other words pay is a wash.

Let me say that again, pay is a wash with a regional.

Our movement is in the 2%/yr range. The only saving grace is the high turnover at the bottom of the list as people leave for real airlines. If you plan on using an airline as a stepping stone towards a descent career why come here? Other places have guaranteed flow through to high paying jobs, what do we have to offer?

rvr1800
11-23-2017, 07:31 AM
Southerner, the perspective lacking is yours. First year pay at Republic is $64k. Ours is $53k. Upgrade there is 6 months. In other words pay is a wash.

Let me say that again, pay is a wash with a regional.

Our movement is in the 2%/yr range. The only saving grace is the high turnover at the bottom of the list as people leave for real airlines. If you plan on using an airline as a stepping stone towards a descent career why come here? Other places have guaranteed flow through to high paying jobs, what do we have to offer?

Iíd say your both partially right. Hereís how you reach $64k:

First Officer Averages (Year 1): $40,400 (wages/base compensation) + $5,800 (per diem) + (up to) $12,500 (signing bonus) + $6,200 (benefits) = $64,900

So youíre not fully comparing the two if you donít include 401k match and per diem at jetBlue. Junior Captain at republic is a 2014 hire.

I fully believe there are guys debating between the two. Short term it could make more sense to go to Republic. Especially if you live in base. After two years though the pay scales separate pretty significantly. Even with a quick upgrade at Republic or Endeavor.

Sad that this is even a conversation though. We need a contract immediately.

PasserOGas
11-23-2017, 08:23 AM
Iíd say your both partially right. Hereís how you reach $64k:

First Officer Averages (Year 1): $40,400 (wages/base compensation) + $5,800 (per diem) + (up to) $12,500 (signing bonus) + $6,200 (benefits) = $64,900

So youíre not fully comparing the two if you donít include 401k match and per diem at jetBlue. Junior Captain at republic is a 2014 hire.

I fully believe there are guys debating between the two. Short term it could make more sense to go to Republic. Especially if you live in base. After two years though the pay scales separate pretty significantly. Even with a quick upgrade at Republic or Endeavor.

Sad that this is even a conversation though. We need a contract immediately.

We need to be smart. If they hand us anything less than industry standard we need to vote no. If we get a small raise, they could continue recruiting for our anemic growth.

Their inability to recruit and change fleet types is our most powerful leverage.

Southerner
11-23-2017, 01:14 PM
Southerner, the perspective lacking is yours. First year pay at Republic is $64k. Ours is $53k. Upgrade there is 6 months. In other words pay is a wash.



Let me say that again, pay is a wash with a regional.



Our movement is in the 2%/yr range. The only saving grace is the high turnover at the bottom of the list as people leave for real airlines. If you plan on using an airline as a stepping stone towards a descent career why come here? Other places have guaranteed flow through to high paying jobs, what do we have to offer?



Sure, if youíre focused on year one, I guess. Look at year 10. Unless your paycheck has the same logo as the paint on the side of the plane, you shouldnít get too comfortable.

Add to that the fact that we are in the end stages of negotiations, and the idea of it being a toss up between a major and a regional is ludicrous.

HighFlight
11-23-2017, 02:18 PM
I believe your math to be a bit off, Sir.

First year (min guarantee):
Republic - $36,729. Bonus is $15,000 or $17,500 with 121 time. So either $51,729 or $54,229.

JB is $41,737 plus training pay of $3,000 or $44,737.

Second year:
Republic - $37,350
JB - $71,400

So while Republic wins the first year by about $10K, it also takes a $16,879 pay cut second year, whereas JB has a pay increase of $26,663.

IFF one happens to upgrade at Republic, he/she will make $64,800 (vs. $71,400 JB)second year. $66,600 3rd year (vs. JB FO at $84,000).

I wonít even get into the astronomical difference in pay when one upgrades at JB. Also, I was using the lower 190 pay rates; obviously, the 320 guys make approximately $8,400 more annually.

(Not counting JBís MUCH better 401K to keep things at the disposable income level).


Hoepfully that provides some accurate perspective from the outside.

Southerner, the perspective lacking is yours. First year pay at Republic is $64k. Ours is $53k. Upgrade there is 6 months. In other words pay is a wash.

Let me say that again, pay is a wash with a regional.

Our movement is in the 2%/yr range. The only saving grace is the high turnover at the bottom of the list as people leave for real airlines. If you plan on using an airline as a stepping stone towards a descent career why come here? Other places have guaranteed flow through to high paying jobs, what do we have to offer?

Southerner
11-23-2017, 02:49 PM
I believe your math to be a bit off, Sir.



First year (min guarantee):

Republic - $36,729. Bonus is $15,000 or $17,500 with 121 time. So either $51,729 or $54,229.



JB is $41,737 plus training pay of $3,000 or $44,737.



Second year:

Republic - $37,350

JB - $71,400



So while Republic wins the first year by about $10K, it also takes a $16,879 pay cut second year, whereas JB has a pay increase of $26,663.



IFF one happens to upgrade at Republic, he/she will make $64,800 (vs. $71,400 JB)second year. $66,600 3rd year (vs. JB FO at $84,000).



I wonít even get into the astronomical difference in pay when one upgrades at JB. Also, I was using the lower 190 pay rates; obviously, the 320 guys make approximately $8,400 more annually.



(Not counting JBís MUCH better 401K to keep things at the disposable income level).





Hoepfully that provides some accurate perspective from the outside.



Shhhhh, your post doesnít fit their narrative.

I totally agree that the contract will need to bring us back into line with the other majors. No argument there. But regionals are unstable. A good one today is a bad one tomorrow. Thereís more to the choice than a first year dollar sign, particularly since we are down to the last few sections of the CBA. Long game. Not short game.

PasserOGas
11-23-2017, 02:49 PM
Sure, if youíre focused on year one, I guess. Look at year 10. Unless your paycheck has the same logo as the paint on the side of the plane, you shouldnít get too comfortable.

Add to that the fact that we are in the end stages of negotiations, and the idea of it being a toss up between a major and a regional is ludicrous.

If you are here for 10 years in this environment you've failed.

PasserOGas
11-23-2017, 02:55 PM
I believe your math to be a bit off, Sir.

First year (min guarantee):
Republic - $36,729. Bonus is $15,000 or $17,500 with 121 time. So either $51,729 or $54,229.

JB is $41,737 plus training pay of $3,000 or $44,737.

Second year:
Republic - $37,350
JB - $71,400

So while Republic wins the first year by about $10K, it also takes a $16,879 pay cut second year, whereas JB has a pay increase of $26,663.

IFF one happens to upgrade at Republic, he/she will make $64,800 (vs. $71,400 JB)second year. $66,600 3rd year (vs. JB FO at $84,000).

I wonít even get into the astronomical difference in pay when one upgrades at JB. Also, I was using the lower 190 pay rates; obviously, the 320 guys make approximately $8,400 more annually.

(Not counting JBís MUCH better 401K to keep things at the disposable income level).


Hoepfully that provides some accurate perspective from the outside.

You get the bonus every year, capts included. Quick upgrade makes up for the FO hourly rate difference. Remember, you keep getting bonuses. I dont consider upgrade at B6, because its a decade away for new hires. You could fly for endeavor, go to DAL, and upgrade on the MD, before you upgrade here.

pilotpayne
11-23-2017, 03:02 PM
If you are here for 10 years in this environment you've failed.

What a joke
Why did you fill out an app and accept a job here?

BuckeyeFO
11-23-2017, 03:18 PM
In 2017, you go to a regional to get PIC or a flow to a real major.
You go to JetBlue because you live in the Northeast.

Hopefully that will change if JB can become a job that is comparable to DL/UAL/AA/SWA.

If you are 23-35 and have major airline aspirations, the safest bet right now is to go to a regional. Too many BlueJuicers like Southerner sabotaging the union's efforts of making JB a job worth staying at.

#keepsgettingbetterinbluegloves

pilotpayne
11-23-2017, 03:54 PM
In 2017, you go to a regional to get PIC or a flow to a real major.
You go to JetBlue because you live in the Northeast.

Hopefully that will change if JB can become a job that is comparable to DL/UAL/AA/SWA.

If you are 23-35 and have major airline aspirations, the safest bet right now is to go to a regional. Too many BlueJuicers like Southerner sabotaging the union's efforts of making JB a job worth staying at.

#keepsgettingbetterinbluegloves

Why the obsession about JetBlue, unless I am mistaken you don't even work here.

HighFlight
11-23-2017, 04:51 PM
Huh? Endeavor is the only regional I am aware of that has retention bonuses to all on property. Where are you getting the info that Republic has more than a signing bonus? I didnít see it on their site.

You get the bonus every year, capts included. Quick upgrade makes up for the FO hourly rate difference. Remember, you keep getting bonuses. I dont consider upgrade at B6, because its a decade away for new hires. You could fly for endeavor, go to DAL, and upgrade on the MD, before you upgrade here.

HighFlight
11-23-2017, 04:53 PM
Youíre not mistaken, and I am not obsessed with any airline. But as someone who hopes to move up one day, I like to try to think outside my own little box. Expand my horizons, if you will.

Why the obsession about JetBlue, unless I am mistaken you don't even work here.

BuckeyeFO
11-23-2017, 05:17 PM
Youíre not mistaken, and I am not obsessed with any airline. But as someone who hopes to move up one day, I like to try to think outside my own little box. Expand my horizons, if you will.

Even though he was talking about me, I agree 100% with your sentiment.

I turned down my JB class bc SWA had called (even though I interviewed at SWA a month after JB, another problem JB has).

From an outsider's perspective, it sure seems like the JB MGT attitude is "well we only hire people who live in the northeast and since you moved to NH to not go crazy with our garbage reserve rules, we are going to try and pay you less because we figure your wife doesn't want to move and/or you don't want to commute for a better job. We'll give you free blue gloves though."

HighFlight
11-23-2017, 05:22 PM
Oops, got my posts crossed, sorry to both of you. Congrats on SWA, BTW!

Even though he was talking about me, I agree 100% with your sentiment.

I turned down my JB class bc SWA had called (even though I interviewed at SWA a month after JB, another problem JB has).

From an outsider's perspective, it sure seems like the JB MGT attitude is "well we only hire people who live in the northeast and since you moved to NH to not go crazy with our garbage reserve rules, we are UIKeyInputUpArrowgoing to try and pay you less because we figure your wife doesn't want to move and/or you don't want to commute for a better job. We'll give you free blue gloves though."

Southerner
11-23-2017, 05:32 PM
So a bunch of guys who donít even work here want to pontificate on something they know nothing about. Got it.

Bozo the pilot
11-23-2017, 07:07 PM
So a bunch of guys who donít even work here want to pontificate on something they know nothing about. Got it.

Well I do work here South and we are way behind. You know this, but
take offense upon hearing every negative comment about B6.
I have nothing against you, but I don't understand your absolute allegiance to a company that has been historically deceitful and cheap with its employees.
They will be faced with staffing issues soon enough though and forced to provide a decent contract.
For now, the proper advice for those seeking the best possible contract is to aim for DAL/AA/UAL/SWA. These airlines have far superior pay/benefits and career outlook.
Do you disagree South? I wanna know.
Hope all is well back on line man.

Southerner
11-23-2017, 07:23 PM
Well I do work here South and we are way behind. You know this, but

take offense upon hearing every negative comment about B6.

I have nothing against you, but I don't understand your absolute allegiance to a company that has been historically deceitful and cheap with its employees.

They will be faced with staffing issues soon enough though and forced to provide a decent contract.

For now, the proper advice for those seeking the best possible contract is to aim for DAL/AA/UAL/SWA. These airlines have far superior pay/benefits and career outlook.

Do you disagree South? I wanna know.

Hope all is well back on line man.



I donít take offense to truthful statements. I take offense to hyperbole and political axe grinding.

I donít deny that we need a CBA. Never have. But we are not a ďtoss upĒ between us and a regional. Thatís just flat not true. Anyone who honestly believes that either isnít looking past the first year, or hasnít worked at a regional or major airline, and thus isnít qualified to make that statement. Those who have understand how crazy that statement is.

Stick to the facts, and Iíll never object. Start making up BS and/or spouting hyperbole because it suits your narrative, and I will counter it. Itís quite simple.

Gearswinger
11-24-2017, 02:11 AM
Whatís up with the blue glove comments? I have yet to clean an airplane, and no one has ever said a word to me or given me any attitude about it. If people are cleaning planes then they are deciding to do so on their own. It is not in our manuals to do it, so unless youíre looking for some sweet togetherness time with the FAs, sit in the cockpit or walk off the plane. If you are non revving, pick up your seat, put the arm rest up and cross the belts and leave. Maybe this clean the plane garbage was an issue in the past but as someone who has been here about a year, it sure isnít in 2017.

Bozo the pilot
11-24-2017, 04:24 AM
I donít take offense to truthful statements. I take offense to hyperbole and political axe grinding.

I donít deny that we need a CBA. Never have. But we are not a ďtoss upĒ between us and a regional. Thatís just flat not true. Anyone who honestly believes that either isnít looking past the first year, or hasnít worked at a regional or major airline, and thus isnít qualified to make that statement. Those who have understand how crazy that statement is.

Stick to the facts, and Iíll never object. Start making up BS and/or spouting hyperbole because it suits your narrative, and I will counter it. Itís quite simple.

Yes - I wouldn't tell guys to turn down B6 for a regional, but I do advise them to look at B6 as a stepping stone airline that provides a valuable type rating and experience to parlay into a legacy job with true protections and considerations.
Jetblue is definitely a step above the regionals but a few steps below a Major.
B6 management better get off their a$$ and get a TA out. Aside from the juicers, we're fed up as a pilot group.

CaptCoolHand
11-24-2017, 04:42 AM
Did you forget? You have to sacrifice to work here. Those other airlines are failed models. We have a moat and culture and jetblue pilots donít want to be paid the most... they want to be paid the longest. Please donít forget the secret sauce that goes in the sweet spot. But my personal favorite, you donít want a raise, youíll just buy more toys.

Southerner
11-24-2017, 05:13 AM
Yes - I wouldn't tell guys to turn down B6 for a regional, but I do advise them to look at B6 as a stepping stone airline that provides a valuable type rating and experience to parlay into a legacy job with true protections and considerations.

Jetblue is definitely a step above the regionals but a few steps below a Major.

B6 management better get off their a$$ and get a TA out. Aside from the juicers, we're fed up as a pilot group.



I donít personally feel that this company is merely a stepping stone, but I know that some do, and thatís their prerogative. So from that perspective, I donít disagree with what you said.

PasserOGas
11-24-2017, 06:26 AM
What a joke
Why did you fill out an app and accept a job here?

So because this place has nosedived in QOL and relative pay I should stay and sing its praises? In this environment, right now B6 is a stepping stone. There are better stepping stones than B6 to serve that purpose. If you are here 10 years from now as a new hire you will have made much less than your peers who leave for a real airline. You will have failed.

This doesnt apply to current Capts, newhires only.

BuckeyeFO
11-24-2017, 06:55 AM
Based on the PMs I've received...people think I'm trolling this thread.

That is not the case. I want JB to be a career airline. Unfortunately, for people applying now (as this is a thread regarding a gateway program) it is sadly not the case UNLESS YOU LIVE IN THE NORTHEAST.

The pay, work-rules, and career advancement is just not there.
If your career goal is to work for a major airline (UAL/DL/AA/SWA), it IS a toss up about whether JB or a "good" regional would be the better stepping stone. An Airbus type is not as helpful as PIC time or a flow program.

That is not to say that JB isn't a better job than a regional, but unless you live in the Northeast - very few people are applying or taking a class at JB with the intentions of staying there.

Hopefully 2018 will result in a CBA that puts JB pilots with their peers at the top of the industry.

Bozo the pilot
11-24-2017, 06:55 AM
So because this place has nosedived in QOL and relative pay I should stay and sing its praises? In this environment, right now B6 is a stepping stone. There are better stepping stones than B6 to serve that purpose. If you are here 10 years from now as a new hire you will have made much less than your peers who leave for a real airline. You will have failed.

This doesnt apply to current Capts, newhires only.

The juicers hate the truth. B6=stepping stone for now anyway.

pilotpayne
11-24-2017, 08:38 AM
Even though he was talking about me, I agree 100% with your sentiment.

I turned down my JB class bc SWA had called (even though I interviewed at SWA a month after JB, another problem JB has).

From an outsider's perspective, it sure seems like the JB MGT attitude is "well we only hire people who live in the northeast and since you moved to NH to not go crazy with our garbage reserve rules, we are going to try and pay you less because we figure your wife doesn't want to move and/or you don't want to commute for a better job. We'll give you free blue gloves though."


No I was talking to you.
Looks like it worked out for JetBlue you me and swa, go be happy.
Like you said an outside perspective.

pilotpayne
11-24-2017, 08:42 AM
So because this place has nosedived in QOL and relative pay I should stay and sing its praises? In this environment, right now B6 is a stepping stone. There are better stepping stones than B6 to serve that purpose. If you are here 10 years from now as a new hire you will have made much less than your peers who leave for a real airline. You will have failed.

This doesnt apply to current Capts, newhires only.

Well that caveat of new hires was not in your first post, so thatís where it was confusing. There were not many airlines hiring in 2007.

Rascal
11-24-2017, 11:51 AM
I have spent 10 years at the regionals and 2 years at JetBlue. A month after I started training at JetBlue my regional announced a guaranteed interview with United. Know what I know now, I would have never left. At this point I am almost considering leaving for a regionals with guaranteed flow-through to the real majors. It is a sad state of affairs at JetBlue as evidenced by this thread.

PontiusPilot
11-24-2017, 02:39 PM
I have spent 10 years at the regionals and 2 years at JetBlue. A month after I started training at JetBlue my regional announced a guaranteed interview with United. Know what I know now, I would have never left. At this point I am almost considering leaving for a regionals with guaranteed flow-through to the real majors. It is a sad state of affairs at JetBlue as evidenced by this thread.

Were you CommutAir or XJT? The interview isn't guaranteed, but the Hogan is.

Rascal
11-24-2017, 04:24 PM
Were you CommutAir or XJT? The interview isn't guaranteed, but the Hogan is.

XJT Captain, I still have not caught up with pay and insurance at JetBlue is far worse.

John Carr
11-24-2017, 07:32 PM
XJT Captain, I still have not caught up with pay and insurance at JetBlue is far worse.

But Pontiius’s point is STILL VALID.

If you left right before the CPP was announced in Sping of 2016 and inside of ~700 on the seniority list you would have interviewed before fall 2016.

HPI pass rate then was terrible, face to face pass even more so.

IF your entire 10 years was XJT making you a 2006 XJT hire that would offset the above. Assuming you passed, you’d be looking at about a 10 months from now before class assuming BK’s hiring projection for 2018 stays on target. You could still beat that via off street selection and a statistically higher chance of being hired.

NOTHING is/was guaranteed on the CPP EXCEPT the HPI.

IrishNJ
11-25-2017, 03:40 AM
I have spent 10 years at the regionals and 2 years at JetBlue. A month after I started training at JetBlue my regional announced a guaranteed interview with United. Know what I know now, I would have never left. At this point I am almost considering leaving for a regionals with guaranteed flow-through to the real majors. It is a sad state of affairs at JetBlue as evidenced by this thread.

100% agree.

I also regret the move to Jblu. Not a good move for any captain at an ok regional. Massive loss in QOL, medical, vacation, time off ..... it’ll take all of 3rd and 4th years pay to compensate 1st and 2nd year pay loss.

Unless the new CBA changes things, after those 4 years, you’ll still have worse benefits, worse hotels, less time off ......

So, the gamble is whether or not you believe you can get hired at a real major from your regional within 5 years.

Not sure why Southerner thinks JB is so good.

say again
11-25-2017, 07:16 AM
So because this place has nosedived in QOL and relative pay I should stay and sing its praises? In this environment, right now B6 is a stepping stone. There are better stepping stones than B6 to serve that purpose. If you are here 10 years from now as a new hire you will have made much less than your peers who leave for a real airline. You will have failed.

This doesnt apply to current Capts, newhires only.

What do you mean by failed?

pilotpayne
11-25-2017, 07:41 AM
100% agree.

I also regret the move to Jblu. Not a good move for any captain at an ok regional. Massive loss in QOL, medical, vacation, time off ..... itíll take all of 3rd and 4th years pay to compensate 1st and 2nd year pay loss.

Unless the new CBA changes things, after those 4 years, youíll still have worse benefits, worse hotels, less time off ......

So, the gamble is whether or not you believe you can get hired at a real major from your regional within 5 years.

Not sure why Southerner thinks JB is so good.


"Unless the new CBA changes things, after those 4 years, youíll still have worse benefits, worse hotels, less time off ......"

Man if you don't think a CBA will change all of this I don't know what to tell you.

Rascal
11-25-2017, 08:36 AM
"Unless the new CBA changes things, after those 4 years, you’ll still have worse benefits, worse hotels, less time off ......"

Man if you don't think a CBA will change all of this I don't know what to tell you.

I doubt things are going to change much. Most of the Captains I fly with are just fine with the way things are and managment knows it. As matter of fact, I just finished a trip with a guy that was very surprised that a Delta FO makes more than he does. He did not believe me until I showed him the pay scale and even then he came up with excuses to why it's better at Jetblue.

pilotpayne
11-25-2017, 08:42 AM
I doubt things are going to change much. Most of the Captains I fly with are just fine with the way things are and managment knows it. As matter of fact I just finished a trip with a guy that was very surprised that a Delta FO makes more than he does. He did not believe until I showed him the pay scale and even then he came up with excuses to why it's better at Jetblue.

Not being rude here. Have you talked to any of our negotiating team or been to a rally? It’s ludicrous to think there will not be a massive change for the better.
If that is the case I am really wasting my money.

Rascal
11-25-2017, 09:55 AM
Not being rude here. Have you talked to any of our negotiating team or been to a rally? Itís ludicrous to think there will not be a massive change for the better.
If that is the case I am really wasting my money.

Even if we get a decent contract the fact still remains that the top position here is A320 Captain and very little growth. If you are an FO you most likely you have to wait another 15 years before you can hold weekends off as A320 Captain in JFK, forget about MCO or LGB. If you are Captain at regional with a chance to flow to a real Major don't make the mistake that I made.

jtrain609
11-25-2017, 09:59 AM
Even if we get a decent contract the fact still remains that the top position here is A320 Captain and very little growth. If you are an FO you most likely you have to wait another 15 years before you can hold weekends off as A320 Captain in JFK, forget about MCO or LGB. If you are Captain at regional with a chance to flow to a real Major don't make the mistake that I made.

You know Delta has already hired their last wide body captain for the next few decades, right?

pilotpayne
11-25-2017, 10:05 AM
Even if we get a decent contract the fact still remains that the top position here is A320 Captain and very little growth. If you are an FO you most likely you have to wait another 15 years before you can hold weekends off as A320 Captain in JFK, forget about MCO or LGB. If you are Captain at regional with a chance to flow to a real Major don't make the mistake that I made.

Dude donít beat yourself up. You said it yourself that interview option didnít exist when you left. You made a decision based on what you know. You are also really only looking at the worst case scenario here. Most likely we will have a great CBA and that alone should drive a ton of hiring which will help move you up. You are also sitting at a major (yeah yeah I know) and not a regional. Nobody ever knows what is going to happen at a regional and you donít even know if you would have passed the hogan test. I know Iím the optimistic guy here but amazingly there are people who would like to be where you are. Keep your apps updated and relax a little. This industry is so unpredictable donít just focus on the bad.

So ends my motivational speech :)

clear4approach
11-25-2017, 11:27 AM
You know Delta has already hired their last wide body captain for the next few decades, right?

Still rather be at Delta...

Southerner
11-25-2017, 11:42 AM
Still rather be at Delta...



Their application window is open. Vaya con dios.

jtrain609
11-25-2017, 01:24 PM
Still rather be at Delta...

Then I wish you luck in getting hired there.

Bozo the pilot
11-25-2017, 01:47 PM
Still rather be at Delta...

Most of us would.
Even the juicers know DAL is a superior company with growth, benefits, and a real contract and are just lying to themselves. Bring it on juice-brigade.:D

jtrain609
11-25-2017, 01:54 PM
Most of us would.
Even the juicers know DAL is a superior company with growth, benefits, and a real contract and are just lying to themselves. Bring it on juice-brigade.:D

What growth do they have?

Bozo the pilot
11-25-2017, 01:59 PM
What growth do they have?

Boston:D
They're a real airline bro- Do you agree?

PasserOGas
11-25-2017, 02:04 PM
What growth do they have?

The only growth that matters. Seniority.

Bozo the pilot
11-25-2017, 02:15 PM
The only growth that matters. Seniority.

Unless you use the word organic before the word growth, it is unrecognizable to some B6ers.
The sluggish movement at Jetblue is the worst aspect of our future.
Although there is the 321LR:rolleyes:

The701Express
11-25-2017, 06:31 PM
Boston:D
They're a real airline bro- Do you agree?

Most of those new Delta flights are flown by RJs.

From a July press release:

With Pittsburgh and New Orleans, Delta has now announced 10 new markets from Boston in 2017. The airlineís new service also includes:

Tampa twice daily on Airbus A319 aircraft as of February
Dublin, Ireland, daily on Boeing 757-200 aircraft as of May
San Francisco twice daily on Boeing 757-200 aircraft as of June
Buffalo, N.Y., three times daily on Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft (operated by Endeavor Air, Inc.) as of August
Austin, Texas, daily on Airbus A319 aircraft as of September
Kansas City daily on Bombardier CRJ-900 aircraft (operated by Endeavor Air, Inc.) as of September
Jacksonville, Fla., daily on Embraer E170 aircraft (operated by Republic Airline) as of September
Norfolk, Va., daily on Bombardier CRJ-700 aircraft (operated by ExpressJet Airlines, Inc) as of September

http://news.delta.com/delta-continues-boston-expansion-new-service-pittsburgh-new-orleans

JetBlue has its issues, but the growth we have is ours. A great CBA with a solid scope section will only improve our situation.

Bozo the pilot
11-25-2017, 06:39 PM
Most of those new Delta flights are flown by RJs.

I see you understand sarcasm expertly.
DAL=real airline
B6 = awesome regional
701 = juicer
Any questions?

Southerner
11-26-2017, 05:35 AM
I see you understand sarcasm expertly.

DAL=real airline

B6 = awesome regional

701 = juicer

Any questions?



Come on man. Whatís with all the name calling?

JetBlue is a real airline. It may not be a legacy, but it isnít a regional. I came here knowing that it wasnít Delta (and specifically because it isnít Delta). Didnít you know that as well?

5 years ago, before the legacies all got new contracts, we werenít really behind. Now we are, and guess what, we are fixing that with a CBA in the near future.

Bozo the pilot
11-26-2017, 05:51 AM
Come on man. Whatís with all the name calling?

JetBlue is a real airline. It may not be a legacy, but it isnít a regional. I came here knowing that it wasnít Delta (and specifically because it isnít Delta). Didnít you know that as well?

5 years ago, before the legacies all got new contracts, we werenít really behind. Now we are, and guess what, we are fixing that with a CBA in the near future.

I know- just pokin some fun at guys who incessantly praise and defend B6.
Those of us who constantly berate B6 deserve the same ribbing😉👊🏿

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 08:18 AM
Come on man. Whatís with all the name calling?

JetBlue is a real airline. It may not be a legacy, but it isnít a regional. I came here knowing that it wasnít Delta (and specifically because it isnít Delta). Didnít you know that as well?

5 years ago, before the legacies all got new contracts, we werenít really behind. Now we are, and guess what, we are fixing that with a CBA in the near future.

Until we have a CBA on par with SWA, DAL, and so on we are on par with a regional. We don't have a TA let alone a CBA so let's not pretend that we aren't a bottom feeder.

Until our ELT starts running an airline instead of a "brand" we won't be a real airline.

todd1200
11-26-2017, 09:07 AM
One thing to remember about this industry is that it never changes. Ever since Orville and Wilbur started Delta Air Lines with an amazing pilot contract, the legacies have been the ideal destination for pilots. No one ever left a legacy in search of greener pastures. The only people who went to obviously doomed airlines like PanAm and Eastern in the '80s were pilots who weren't good enough to get hired at the primo airlines of the day like FedEx and Southwest. The reason all legacy pilots are so cheerful and have so much respect for their leaders is that they have meat eating, whiskey drinking pilots running route planning and aircraft acquisition, not millennial beta-males sitting around drinking La Croix Papplemousse sharing craft beard oil. Did you hear they're getting rid of the uniform pants and making pilots wear skinny jeans? How will anyone respect my authoritah if I look like a non-revving FA? Just another example of the many negative changes that are always happening in this volatile industry.

CaptCoolHand
11-26-2017, 09:41 AM
5 years ago, before the legacies all got new contracts, we werenít really behind. Now we are, and guess what, we are fixing that with a CBA in the near future.

We were behind 5 years ago. And weíre way behind now. Why do you think we voted in ALPA in the first place.

If we hadnít been behind. There would have been no reason for the union.

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 11:52 AM
One thing to remember about this industry is that it never changes. Ever since Orville and Wilbur started Delta Air Lines with an amazing pilot contract, the legacies have been the ideal destination for pilots. No one ever left a legacy in search of greener pastures. The only people who went to obviously doomed airlines like PanAm and Eastern in the '80s were pilots who weren't good enough to get hired at the primo airlines of the day like FedEx and Southwest. The reason all legacy pilots are so cheerful and have so much respect for their leaders is that they have meat eating, whiskey drinking pilots running route planning and aircraft acquisition, not millennial beta-males sitting around drinking La Croix Papplemousse sharing craft beard oil. Did you hear they're getting rid of the uniform pants and making pilots wear skinny jeans? How will anyone respect my authoritah if I look like a non-revving FA? Just another example of the many negative changes that are always happening in this volatile industry.

"Jetblue brand craft beard oil!"

If we only sold it to our own employees we would double our profits!

The701Express
11-26-2017, 01:39 PM
I see you understand sarcasm expertly.
DAL=real airline
B6 = awesome regional
701 = juicer
Any questions?

My sarcasm detection capabilities weren't functioning at 100% at the end of a long day, my apologies for missing that.

Now that I'm more rested, I have to admit it, you outed me, Bozo. You saw through the years of my posts critical of the company and with one post that didn't even mention jetblue your David Caruso caliber, NCIS worthy cyber detective skills uncovered my true, juicy self. I tip my blue gloves to you as I dive headfirst into the seat back pocket of seat 1A:p:D

Bozo the pilot
11-26-2017, 06:05 PM
My sarcasm detection capabilities weren't functioning at 100% at the end of a long day, my apologies for missing that.

Now that I'm more rested, I have to admit it, you outed me, Bozo. You saw through the years of my posts critical of the company and with one post that didn't even mention jetblue your David Caruso caliber, NCIS worthy cyber detective skills uncovered my true, juicy self. I tip my blue gloves to you as I dive headfirst into the seat back pocket of seat 1A:p:D

Fyi, All of my posts are sarcastic.
But I do wonder why some guys on this forum bend over backwards to either defend the company outright, or mansplain the B6BS.
Are you all that afraid of rocking the boat?
This forum means nothing and you act as if we are moving the needle with our useless posts. News flash--this is entertainment with only a splash of info. Have fun with it. ;)

Bozo the pilot
11-26-2017, 06:07 PM
We were behind 5 years ago. And weíre way behind now. Why do you think we voted in ALPA in the first place.

If we hadnít been behind. There would have been no reason for the union.

Too much logic cch.
Many here are hooked on the feeling of "culture":rolleyes:

galaxy flyer
11-26-2017, 07:30 PM
The only people who went to obviously doomed airlines like PanAm and Eastern in the '80s were pilots who weren't good enough to get hired at the primo airlines of the day like FedEx and Southwest.

Let me guess, you werenít in aviation in the 80s?

GF

BeatNavy
11-26-2017, 07:46 PM
Let me guess, you weren’t in aviation in the 80s?

GF

Not sure if serious. His whole post was sarcastic.

jtrain609
11-26-2017, 07:58 PM
Not sure if serious. His whole post was sarcastic.

Yup. FedEx was flying clapped out Falcon 20's and Southwest was where you went when you had too many DUI's to be called by United.

Every contract gain has been won through the hard fought work of unions and their membership.

We will be no different.

antbar01
12-05-2017, 07:25 AM
One thing to remember about this industry is that it never changes. Ever since Orville and Wilbur started Delta Air Lines with an amazing pilot contract, the legacies have been the ideal destination for pilots. No one ever left a legacy in search of greener pastures. The only people who went to obviously doomed airlines like PanAm and Eastern in the '80s were pilots who weren't good enough to get hired at the primo airlines of the day like FedEx and Southwest. The reason all legacy pilots are so cheerful and have so much respect for their leaders is that they have meat eating, whiskey drinking pilots running route planning and aircraft acquisition, not millennial beta-males sitting around drinking La Croix Papplemousse sharing craft beard oil. Did you hear they're getting rid of the uniform pants and making pilots wear skinny jeans? How will anyone respect my authoritah if I look like a non-revving FA? Just another example of the many negative changes that are always happening in this volatile industry.

Iím all for humor in a post, but dude, there are limits.

Drinking La Croix Pamplemousse makes your dick bigger, itís just a fact.

Now carry on, but have a little restraint.

FLYMIA
12-05-2017, 12:13 PM
One thing to remember about this industry is that it never changes. Ever since Orville and Wilbur started Delta Air Lines with an amazing pilot contract, the legacies have been the ideal destination for pilots. No one ever left a legacy in search of greener pastures. The only people who went to obviously doomed airlines like PanAm and Eastern in the '80s were pilots who weren't good enough to get hired at the primo airlines of the day like FedEx and Southwest. The reason all legacy pilots are so cheerful and have so much respect for their leaders is that they have meat eating, whiskey drinking pilots running route planning and aircraft acquisition, not millennial beta-males sitting around drinking La Croix Papplemousse sharing craft beard oil. Did you hear they're getting rid of the uniform pants and making pilots wear skinny jeans? How will anyone respect my authoritah if I look like a non-revving FA? Just another example of the many negative changes that are always happening in this volatile industry.

Leatherman is that you?!? There once was a legend..



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