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View Full Version : Cartels at SWA


squirtinvert
11-24-2017, 07:34 PM
I am a noob SWA guy. That being said I understand both sides of the argument for block bidding and see each side. I have heard grumblings of cartels being unfair to the pilots not in them. Can someone experienced at SWA explain both sides of the argument for and against cartels (as much of an unbiased view as possible).


e6bpilot
11-24-2017, 11:33 PM
For cartels? There is a reason that cartels operate in the netherworld of board blocking and double secret trading. Because the stuff they do is shady, undermines seniority, and is generally frowned upon by both the pilots and flight ops management.
Cartel vacation trading really doesnít fall under that category. I mean, once you get your vacation weeks you can trade them to whomever you choose. I think a lot of guys just have a problem with the way weeks are awarded in the first place, not the trading of said weeks. If someone wants to trade a week with his sim partners cousin, have at it.

SlipKid
11-25-2017, 07:17 AM
I am a noob SWA guy. That being said I understand both sides of the argument for block bidding and see each side. I have heard grumblings of cartels being unfair to the pilots not in them. Can someone experienced at SWA explain both sides of the argument for and against cartels (as much of an unbiased view as possible).

The upside of the cartels, assuming you're in one, is that you can maximize your pay and or time off. The downside is that you basically hand control of your board to the cartel leader(s),and they play a shell game on your and other member's boards to manipulate the flying to maximize the TFP for each member. The lower on the pyramid you are, the worse deals you're gonna get.

For everyone NOT in a cartel, you lose out on open time that you would otherwise have gotten, because they've circumvented the rules to get themselves, temporarily, under the cap.

There have been many attempts to regulate this behavior, but all have either petered out or met fierce resistance.

IMHO, the only way to curtail it without screwing the entire group is to make the cap ONLY apply to trips taken from open time. This way, a guy who's .01 over the cap because he overflew his awarded line won't lose out to a guy who was, and will be 20-30tfp over the cap 5 minutes after open time closes and the cartel Don puts the trip they parked on another board back onto his.


tr4a
11-26-2017, 03:23 PM
If you move a trip off your board, you should not be able to move it back. Won't stop all of it.

btodd77
11-26-2017, 05:34 PM
What is this all about??

SlipKid
11-26-2017, 05:55 PM
If you move a trip off your board, you should not be able to move it back. Won't stop all of it.

It would certainly help a bit, but they'd just move it to another cartel member's board.

bitatasg
11-26-2017, 06:03 PM
How do you join?

ROFF
11-26-2017, 06:20 PM
Isnít it like fight club?

RJSAviator76
11-26-2017, 06:40 PM
IMHO, the only way to curtail it without screwing the entire group is to make the cap ONLY apply to trips taken from open time. This way, a guy who's .01 over the cap because he overflew his awarded line won't lose out to a guy who was, and will be 20-30tfp over the cap 5 minutes after open time closes and the cartel Don puts the trip they parked on another board back onto his.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bingo!

SlipKid
11-26-2017, 07:00 PM
Isnít it like fight club?

Yup......:eek:

hoover
11-27-2017, 05:49 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bingo!

Also have trips audited in a timely manner not 2 weeks later while guys are sitting under the cap.

Proximity
11-28-2017, 08:34 PM
Also have trips audited in a timely manner not 2 weeks later while guys are sitting under the cap.

Except that when the company causes your line value to increase, it shouldn't go towards your CAP. CAP should only be increased when a pilot takes an action to increase their credit.

e6bpilot
11-29-2017, 06:28 AM
Except that when the company causes your line value to increase, it shouldn't go towards your CAP. CAP should only be increased when a pilot takes an action to increase their credit.



Yep. The cap needs to be tweaked for sure. It should be based on picking up extra flying, not any other metric. Also, the audit thing is annoying. When you are on the bubble, waiting three weeks for an audit can make a huge difference.
All that being said, up until about a month ago, I have never had a problem both out of base and over the cap. We are, right now, temporarily way overmanned by swa standards due to continued hiring during a purposeful slowdown in available flying. I have never seen more than 10 pilots on the reserve list. Last weekend some bases had over 30, all unused.

RightSeat4Ever
03-31-2018, 10:40 AM
For cartels? Because the stuff they do is shady, undermines seniority, and is generally frowned upon by both the pilots and flight ops management.


Cartels are not just "shady", they are illegal. Cartels are composed of a group of people that work together to mis-represent themselves for their own financial gain. Text book definition of conspiracy to commit fraud, and fraud. These people are nothing more than thieves with in this pilot group and should be treated accordingly.



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